Swords and Destiny: Sageuk Poll 2

[Sleepy Owl]

@partyon Noona, so he first looked like this Emperor of the Sea in 2004-05

 

Spoiler

 

Then he looked like this in Jumong in 2006-07

 

Spoiler

 

In the later episodes, we see him as a man in late 30s as the King

 

 

 

 

Then in 2008 in Kingdom of The Winds 

 

Spoiler

 

In the later episodes

 

 

I don't think whether it can be seen in images, but since I watched Kingdom of Winds soon after Jumong, I observed the change and thought he looked younger. 

[partyon]

@corey Take your time!

There are a lot of choices in the poll, so it's not easy to choose.

 

I will add A Ro from Hwarang to the poll in the meantime.

Poor Park Hyung Sik baby !

 

Any examples of HORRIBLE kisses in sageuks?

[rocher22]

 

''Moon lovers''...

 

 

''Joseon gunman''...

 

 

 

[Yinye]

I voted and hope we get a new sageuk that is epic in 2021 too

[Lmangla]

1 hour ago, corey said:

3. Kisses. Actually, AFAIK, there was no such activity as deep kissing in Joseon or Goryeo...Kissing is something Koreans learnt from Westerners..I did some research and apparently there was only something like pecking on the lips. But of course, it is now required to show kissing for modern audiences.

 

... so how do these researchers come to the conclusion? am just curious...

[Yinye]

Hmmm I think it is total BS that people in history doesn’t do deep kissing and the implication that it only came about because of Westerners. Yes, they made it more acceptable in modern society and back in the Middle Ages, they would not have done it in public but there’s been plenty of erotic books and bed manuals since ancient times across all civilizations, including India and China. As Korea is influenced heavily back in G and J dynasty, I am sure they had access to those manuals too and plenty of deep kissing in reality but in private spaces. Having conservative societal rules that put in place strict and minimal displays of affection is one thing but then to say there was such a behavior at all is odd. Sexual activity is human nature and so just because it was a private activity doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. 

[nohamahamoud2002]

Don't recognize any except Love in the Moonlight, so can't vote. It is so good,  currently aired on KBSWORLD 

[rocher22]

Hwarang...

 

 

 

source:Pinterest

[partyon]

Nice pictures @rocher22

 

1 hour ago, corey said:

And lastly I was also told by someone that kissing is a recent development in Korea, so perhaps that is why the kisses in dramas are so awkward, as the people are not yet used to this activity...Which was the final confirmation.

 

As to the kissning in general, @stella77, you would be surprised to learn, perhaps, than in many cultures there was no such thing as deep kissing. Among the few things that were done instead and still considered erotic, were rubbing noses and pulling off a few eyelashes

 

 

 

Yes, it's true that kissing is a fairly modern "invention". I am so glad that we can nowadays see some hot kisses in Korean dramas.

 

But say what about pulling off a few eyelashes?

 

1 hour ago, stella77 said:

I voted and hope we get a new sageuk that is epic in 2021 too

 

Thanks for your vote! I hope we also get an epic sageuk in 2021 !

 

[Sleepy Owl]

Kissing could be a modern invention on the outside, but it has come a long way since we don't know since when. The fact that we don't see or better say were not seeing much kisses in Kdramas before, which have now become a bit common is because it Korea and many Asian countries are conservative countries. It does not mean it was not happening, but let us say it happened behind the closed doors back then. 

 

Plus, since they are all conservative countries, no one speaks about those things. You don't see elders giving tips about it, which I think does not happen anywhere, many didn't or don't even know anything from kiss to making love in their first relationships, and they learnt through it back then. Now well, thanks to many western movies, and well modernization of their own movies, people actually see kisses happening onscreen and get an idea how it happens. And those movies, dramas have sort of normalized expressing love in public through kissing, which I think still is not that common in Korea or many Asian countries.  Which is why it has become more common now. 

 

Coming back to Goryeo and Joseon eras, as I said, kiss has come a long way, there must have been some really good lovers out there. But the conservativeness did not let it come out. Taking about those things openly were also prohibited/morally wrong in Joseon Era, which in my opinion was the most conservative Era in Korean History. About Geishas not kissing, I had read in another book that Kiss was an act of pure love and thus Geishas were asked to not do it to anyone they would never love, because it was sort of something they were not supposed to do to anyone. 

 

But yes, we cannot find much historical records on the ways of love in Korea. But well, the deep kisses do seem very modern invention to me, because the kisses in many old western movies also are not that deep, which they do now and many Korean dramas try to depict and fail miserably. One of the other reason I think could really be the awkwardness between the co-stars in korea, as we said, those deep kisses have not been long introduced in Kdramas, they are a thing of recent times and so, maybe many co-stars feel a bit uncomfortable or awkward in filming those and well that awkwardness just reaches us through the screen. 

[Yinye]

I think people is mixing up kissing as in what is acceptable on TV vs kiss as practiced in reality in history.

 

For TV - of course - Asian countries have been conservative and the kissing being shown on TV have come a long way like many have said. I agree. 
 

However, if you are thinking that in Asian history - there was no deep kissing at all until the Western people bought it; this is where we disagree. Deep kissing or open mouth kissing was like documented in the Kama Sutra going back to like the 4th Century in India.  I think it would be silly to assume that Asian people back then did not know how to deep kiss. I think they did but it wasn’t something they were openly talking about because it was seen as a private act and need not be coined in a public word. Kisu is a ‘loan word’ is a reflection of public and private and not that the act itself didn’t exist. Geisha in Japan were highly trained entertainers (not courtesans until much later - so of course kissing was not encouraged). Yes not all societies do deep kissing but as an Asian and one that studies Asian history for her undergrad studies, I am confident to say that it was practiced in Asia. Ok time for bed!!! Maybe I will have kissing dreams now lol

 

 

[Sleepy Owl]

12 minutes ago, stella77 said:

I think many people is mixing up kissing as in what is acceptable on TV vs kiss as practiced in reality in history.

 

For TV - of course - Asian countries have been conservative and the kissing being shown on TV have come a long way like many have said. I agree. 
 

However, if you are thinking that in Asian history - there was no deep kissing at all until the Western people bought it; this is where we disagree. Deep kissing or open mouth kissing was like documented in the Kama Sutra going back to like the 4th Century in India.  I think it would be silly to assume that Asian people back then did not know how to deep kiss. I think they did but it wasn’t something they were openly talking about because it was seen as a private act and need not be coined in a public word. Kisu is a ‘loan word’ is a reflection of public and private and not that the act itself didn’t exist. Geisha in Japan were highly trained entertainers (not courtesans until much later - so of course kissing was not encouraged). 

 

 

Well I was sort of trying to say the same that Kiss was something more private in Asian countries, but thanks for the deep Kiss info, I really thought it was not THAT ancient. I believe people were passionate and really good lovers, but all that happened behind the closed doors, sometimes even the hugs. But all this is not something you'll hear your asian parents telling you about. 

[msdot]

7 hours ago, violetts said:

Yes, we were R O B B E D of quality kisses in Faith. Forever sad.

Thank god for the ever present sexual tension that fed us through all 24 episodes.

 

It was such a waste of LMH's kissing skills! I voted for the Faith kiss but I think it was because when I saw it, I felt, AT LAST!!!!

 

Loved Song il Gook in all three of his Saeguk roles. Here are a few photos, @partyon:

 

Emperor of the Sea

 

In Jumong he was both beardless and bearded:

 

 

Also in Kingdom of the Winds, both beardless and bearded:

Spoiler

Just look at those bedroom eyes!

 

 

[partyon]

@msdot @Sleepy Owl Whoa, Song Il Gook looks a lot younger without a beard!

 

[YongZura⁷]

I've voted, though I'm surprise at one out of the three.

 

Confession:

I thought I've watched a lot of sageuk.... however seeing the list,  I might not be able to answer the poll fairly since I've watched less than half of what is being there.

 

1. As for favourite second lead  - I've chosen Ji Dwi in Hwarang and it was a very BIG deal at that time in the forum that I can never forget it for the rest of my life (just being a little bit dramatic). Why? That was the first time I've experienced the forum thread "being locked" because of different views that lead to a negative atmosphere. I wish I will never be in that situation again. Thanks to the moderators in charged in helping to ease the tension.

 

3. The Most Annoying character - I'm surprised that ARo has been chosen as one of the MOST annoying characters.  She might be annoying but to say the MOST annoying in the drama ... .  

[Thong Thin]

On 9/19/2020 at 5:24 PM, partyon said:

Poll time 2: Kisses and 2nd Lead Syndrome!

 

Hey again all sageuk fans!

 

Since our sageuk re-watch event is still ongoing (Faith, Empress Ki, Moon Embracing The Sun), we are bringing you another sageuk poll with new questions. This time the questions are:

 

1. Who is your favorite second lead?

We all know that some dramas had second male and female leads who became extremely popular - some became even more popular than the leads. Who is your favorite? Feel free to admit that you had second lead syndrome....

 

 

Oppa!!!!   (Gu Wol Ryung (Choi Jin Hyuk) - Gu Family Book)

 

Other options:

 

2. Best kiss in a sageuk?

Did you think finding abs in sageuk's was hard? Try finding great kisses.  It was like searching for a needle in a haystack. With the help of @Berou @Jillia and @Lmangla I was able to find some decent kisses. Don't get your hopes up, though.

 

Other options:

 

3. Who is the most annoying character?

Does Yeom Byung Soo from Empress Ki annoy you? Are you wondering why he's like a cockroach - why does he refuse to die....? Or do you have another character you find unbelievably annoying? Now is your chance to vote on the character that makes you want to throw your laptop out of the window! Or better yet, throw your laptop at them!

 

Look at this annoying laugh!
No wonder Yeom Byung Soo Empress Ki + DEATH is the most searched combo for Yeom Byung Soo on Google....

 

Other options:

In case you can't find the character or kiss of your choice, please let me know.

Remember: once you have voted, you cannot change your vote anymore!

 

A huge thank you goes out to my dongsaeng @Sleepy Owl who helped this sageuk newbie put together this poll. He is a walking sageuk encyclopedia. Thank you !

 

Re: @Lmangla

Tagging: @chickfactor @joybran @Aneesa Cassiem @Tracie13 @HR. @Ding77 @Biology Lesson @Asgarla @Ayame @croquembouche2018 @izziemazzie @Prettysup @Table122000 @SweetLullaby @AgnesO @fiesty8001 @CallieP @dramafan33 @Mariana Marc @LiB for Velvet @morningdew @DreamCatcher2011 @choco milo @Shining tiara @yoeda @coconut_lemon @azureblue7 @widala @liv_well @dolorisbrady  @-Love Blossom- @Sakurafairy @jangmi92_ @billroberts @nateko @booha @sadthe1st @MinLyn @joccu @Sleepy Owl @H0ney @Nodame @bombshellchick1 @nrllee @MayanEcho @cherkell @faithwalker @Fandomized Q @chickfactor @kehrite @Min2206 @CallieP @Thong Thin @realistic2280a @syntyche @msdot @violetts @Aleumdaun @kdyes @mademoisellesia @vangsweetie637 @stella77 @YongZura⁷ @lebeaucouple @Fangirl22 @ncly @kiefshi1056 @larus @strongtower @kokodus @kiklaminHo @im0202 @Samuel Yohanes @africandramalover @ktcjdrama @0ly40 @celebrianna @brooksmom @rocher22 @corey  @graceyco @Sarang21 @scrawford @CarolynH @AgentQuake @Maja @MY15 @Amy323 @Heretorant @Nikaa94 @Layali @JoannaID @sharoon0136 @willenette @MVM @ailanthus @TiNaDo

 

 

 

Good Morning Chingus'

 

Thanks @partyon for tagging me and kudos to @Lmangla @Sleepy Owl for organising the event.

Will cast my vote later today.

[Lmangla]

@corey @stella77 @Sleepy Owl @partyon ~ kekekek... it turns out that all your thoughts on kissing is right. hahahah.. confused? so out of curiousity, looked it up and apparently there are scientists who study kissing as part of behaviour. umm, why? .. but anyway, so both schools of thought exist -- in some view, they think of it is as a modern/western invention as many cultures claim not to have it but others think it did exist in private quarters but was not talked about in many cultures. from a scientific view, kissing creates bonding though exchange of chemicals and used to chalk whether he/she would be a good mate. science!

 

http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20150714-why-do-we-kiss

 

anyway, what would a kdrama be without a good kiss?!

[Sleepy Owl]

6 minutes ago, Lmangla said:

@corey @stella77 @Sleepy Owl @partyon ~ kekekek... it turns out that all your thoughts on kissing is right. hahahah.. confused? so out of curiousity, looked it up and apparently there are scientists who study kissing as part of behaviour. umm, why? .. but anyway, so both schools of thought exist -- in some view, they think of it is as a modern/western invention as many cultures claim not to have it but others think it did exist in private quarters but was not talked about in many cultures. from a scientific view, kissing creates bonding though exchange of chemicals and used to chalk whether he/she would be a good mate. science!

 

http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20150714-why-do-we-kiss

 

anyway, what would a kdrama be without a good kiss?!

 

I don't know about what would a drama be without good kiss, but sometimes it makes me wonder, are kiss scenes really needed to show the intimacy among the characters or add more to their chemistry? 

 

I remember watching Mr. Sunshine, in which there was no kiss scene as far as I remember, maybe someone would correct me on that, but I don't remember seeing a single kiss scene among the two leads, but you could feel the chemistry and the love they had for each other.

 

By the way, can Mr. Sunshine be classified into Sageuks? Because it happens in early 20th Century, when the Japanese invasion happens and they start gaining control over Kingdom of Korea and its Politics. 

 

 

[Lmangla]

1 minute ago, Sleepy Owl said:

I don't know about what would a drama be without good kiss, but sometimes it makes me wonder, are kiss scenes really needed to show the intimacy among the characters or add more to their chemistry? 

good question -- think it is more for the modern audience? if you have a rom-com and no kiss, many would feel cheated. it happened recently in back street rookie right @Jillia?

many of the older movies barely have a kiss and yet can be very romantic. so it isn't necessarily to have a kiss scene. sometimes a kiss scene feels like a short cut to writing where the writer doesn't have to build the feelings/connect but simply present and voila, we know the two characters like and are attracted to each other. and in others, the kiss adds to the story and moves the plot along. so not just the chemistry but a good kiss scene also depends on PD and writing..

 

4 minutes ago, Sleepy Owl said:

By the way, can Mr. Sunshine be classified into Sageuks? Because it happens in early 20th Century, when the Japanese invasion happens and they start gaining control over Kingdom of Korea and its Politics. 

not sure; my understanding of saeguk is that it is 19 century and below...

[Sleepy Owl]

8 minutes ago, Lmangla said:

good question -- think it is more for the modern audience? if you have a rom-com and no kiss, many would feel cheated. it happened recently in back street rookie right @Jillia?

 

many of the older movies barely have a kiss and yet can be very romantic. so it isn't necessarily to have a kiss scene. sometimes a kiss scene feels like a short cut to writing where the writer doesn't have to build the feelings/connect but simply present and voila, we know the two characters like and are attracted to each other. and in others, the kiss adds to the story and moves the plot along. so not just the chemistry but a good kiss scene also depends on PD and writing..

 

not sure; my understanding of saeguk is that it is 19 century and below...

You see, sometimes Kiss is actually used to make viewers feel the chemistry and love between the characters, as you said. And yes, sometimes writers use it as a shortcut. Countless of examples are present out there, where we see the two characters out there still confused about their feelings, and BOOM one of them kisses and second BOOM they are dating the very next day. And yes, good kiss scene depends on the PD and writing, sometimes the kiss scenes look to much forced on the viewers. I can't remember the examples, but I have many dramas where the kiss scenes were overused, we the couple too much into each other that sometimes we them kissing each other every time they meet and suddenly see them too much in love with each other.

 

So no kiss scene but good writing and chemistry between the couple is something I can accept and am fine with. But over use of kisses sometimes really make me feel like either drop the drama (which very rarely happens and did not happen yet because of this) or just fast forward all their scenes together. 

 

As for Backstreet Rookie, I literally dropped it after watching first episode . 

But I think non availability of kiss scene was because of the Covid-19 situation in SK, or maybe they just used it as an excuse, I didn't read about it, but there were comments on asianwiki giving similar reasons. 

 

About Sageuks, even I think it is something 19 Century and early, but wanted to confirm about Mr. Sunshine.