Swords and Destiny: Sageuk Poll 2

[Sleepy Owl]

On 9/24/2020 at 2:02 AM, Madu Mita said:

@Sleepy Owl I love the conversation we’re having ! I’ve always loved to discuss saeguks and women in saeguks especially. In most cases ,we have two kinds of women, innocent women who loves the hero and is favoured by King, or power Hungry women who are always evil... both are not historically accurate and usually lack depth or purpose...

Sometimes Saeguks love to shade and dilute the characters they’re based on like Jang Ok Jang..where Jang Hee bin is not evil ... Sometimes they romanticise for plot like Queen for Seven days where the main character, based on actual Queen is caught in love triangles between two Kings..the only Saeguk that I saw where a ambitious woman wasn’t all that pointless greed and evil is My Country...

But audience expectation is quite influential it’s why you get characters

like Goo Hae Ryung who by historical accuracy is impossible to exist ... but that’s what you get when you want “strong female lead” but her character is too unrealistic 

 

Moonlovers and My Country was actually quite close to reality from what I’ve seen...but Korea doesn’t have all that popular Concubine dramas like China does.. I guess as long as there’s audience expectation and tropes there will always be romanticisation. There will always be a romance plot while in reality most women I presume were aware of what they can have and just accepted fate... but that won’t be an interesting crowd pleasing stories.

 

we haven’t gotten a Saeguk with an ambitious maid though...atleast I’m not aware 

 

Corrupt clans are such Saeguk classic but it was actually true .. most nobles just cared about their power and influence and even in  Kings, only those that understood the reality and responsibility like the Kings discussed above became noteworthy ... ..

 

One of the interesting moments in Moonlovers is episode thirteen where King Taejo before dying actually entrusts Hae Soo with the task of bringing the crown prince before he dies.. His reason? It’s precisely because she lacks any personal agenda that she’s bought here.. and like his wish, with Hae Soo’s help , the crown Prince gets there and becomes King. It’s all story and unreal but it’s interesting take.. like the less you envision power for yourself the greater you’re influence is.. In Moonlovers it’s precisely why she ends up having such an influence in politics too and basically plays a role in influencing so many kings.. gets you wondering how many maids or court ladies , servants were involved in shaping politics that we never hear about.. 
 

Like you mentioned in Moonlovers,her relationship with the princes only brings her danger and she is used by So’s enemies against him...which is why leaving turns out be the best option for her but most fans are ruthless on her for that ... her character gets so much hate but the writer actually set the stage and made it clear that there was no happiness and safety in the palace...it’s precisely because she left she can protect her baby but most fans don’t get that and just want easy romance..

 

I think unless we fix certain audience expectations we can hardly have historical accurate characters because actual history, especially royal historical is hardly romantic and most characters cannot afford romance...but female characters just get hated on because they can’t provide sweet ending and stay with a man who puts them in danger...

 

 

Well you see, as I said before too, the palace politics started and ended with the women of palace. King didn't even have any jurisdiction over the ladies of palace. All their matters were dealt with the Queen. Now talking about romanticizing things in Sageuks, well that is the reason public watch it I guess. I had some talk on this forum, I guess on the thread of first poll of Sageuks, and someone had mentioned that if they had to show the actual things of the past, then public would not really like it, and that is true. We wouldn't really have any proper love story, the story would be more political central with all types of conspiracies cooking around. 

 

So you got to either romanticize certain historical figures. Sometimes, they are made to be seen from different angle. Like they did for Jang Hee Bin, in the drama Jang Ok-Jung and in Empress Ki. Both are remembered as evil ladies of their time, the later one actually tried to gain control over Goryeo and influenced its politics a lot through her brother. But in both dramas we see them differently, especially Empress Ki. Now I have not watched Rookie Historian, but well, not many ladies in Joseon era were able to do things they wanted to do, just because of the restrictions. As for Sageuk with ambitious maid, well, Choi Suk Bin was actually a water maid in reality, we see her in Dong Yi as maid in the painting department I guess, anyway we see her rise in ranks having started from being a maid. 

 

As for My Country, it had a strong FL, who was not ambitious in typical ways. I liked her, but in my opinion, if the role could have been played by a better and more experienced actress, we could enjoy it more. But well it good anyway. 

 

Coming to Moon lovers, we see Hae Soo to have time traveled back, she becomes a maid in the palace, but not with much ambitions. You are right that the only mistake she sort did was being close to the Kings, which was not really liked by the others. Taejo trusting her showed how each and every person in palace influences the politics of the palace. We have seen Eunuchs and maids being the most loyal ones to their lords, but also many have seen to have been the spy on them. So as I said multiple times, it must have not been possible for any person in palace to not be included in the palace politics, especially the ladies. If you are doing a job in palace, you got know the Diplomacy 101 atleast, otherwise surviving will the toughest thing for you in palace. People had to choose sides back then, there nothing as a neutral person in palace, you are either on King's side, or on either faction's side or any other party's side. 

 

Now about the romance, if you have watched many Sageuks, you will see usually the Kings are showed to have romanced fictional characters. Moonlovers and Six Flying Dragons both had it. It is because, they were not really close to their actual wives, because those marriages were political ones. Very less Sageuks are out there, where we see the King loving a real historical character, and even if it happens, it does not end happily, like we saw in Queen for 7 Days. This pretty much explains pretty much a lot. 

 

About people's taste. I think everyone wants to see things with a different perception than it has been written in the historical records. Like they say, history is written by the victors, and thus we see a lot of dramas with the captions "This is a fictional drama based on historical facts". And with this, they take liberties, in explain or showing different historical events happening differently or due to different reasons. Which if done smartly is fine, but I don't really like how they change the characters from evil to good or vice versa. I watching Empress Ki and enjoying it, but sort of was disappointed with her character being shown a lot differently, but then again if they would not do it, it would not be a hit. Sometimes "What if" factor is used in Sageuks. What if this person was not like and like this, but was recorded differently.

 

This actually can work really well with characters like "Prince Gyang Hae", who is recorded to be a benevolent and generous person while being crown prince, but to have changed drastically after taking the throne, or "Crown Prince Sado" whose death is still a mystery as to why it happened, and so writers have taken a different methods in reasoning it, and we have seem both of them in many movies and dramas. And finally the most infamous tyrant in the history of Korea, Yeonsangun of Joseon, on whom too many dramas and movies have been made. 

 

But then again, show runners have to worry about the drama being hit, and ratings, rather than giving accurate info to people. They sometimes want to provide different perceptions and that in such a way which will attract the public. I don't think public's taste is gonna change, so we'll be seeing romanticized Sageuks continue coming, I guess. So let us wait for the next Sageuk and see how it actually will be.