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[Drama 2018-2019] Children of Nobody/Red Moon, Blue Sun 붉은달 푸른해

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20 minutes ago, bedifferent said:

@cyan5tarlight while all your theories maybe true, I find the idea that Eunho is a psychopath very sombre.  That would make the last 26 episodes that we have watched  about a case of detectives and counselor chasing a serial murderer with a twisted sense of vigilante justice in the name of abused children.  How would this drama inspire further discussion in the viewers or gather public sympathy for the abused children if there is no reason for redemption in the terrible that is Red Cry or Eunho? I think Eunho’s story has to create a positive movement for the abused so he cannot be a mere psychopath.  This cannot be just about one person who got caught up in his own grandiose plan of helping children but ended up victimizing many others on his way to achieve revenge against his own abusers.  Like many said, we would understand Eunho but not condoning his murderous ways.  It wouldn’t help the cause for the abused children or the marginalized members of society. There wouldn’t be much sympathy toward the children of nobody, except that we have to save them so that they wouldn’t end up be future serial killers.  There has to be more to the drama’s message...  Eunho’s fallout has to be under a more sympathetic light.   

I agree with you. Making LEH Red Cry would actually send the wrong message... but if he took the blame and the real Red Cry has not been caught, then this would send the following message: LEH turned into a murderer and became suicidal because he was "manipulated" by him. If that person told him that loving an abusive parent is just brainwashing, the real mastermind is actually denying the existence of love at all. Bit Na loved her mother but was able to realize her mother's flaws. Like she said, she was a tiger once in a while... but sometimes she could be nice. Her mother didn't abuse her her entire life, the divorce marked the turning point. Even after being confronted with her wrongdoing, she realizes what she did and why all this happened. The situation could have been changed... sure, this can only work as long as the person admits his faults and wrongdoings.    

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I actually felt already quite sympathetic towards his character now.  .

Would be nice if he survived and had a healing arc...

But if he died...misguided as he was....it would still show that childhood abuse has far reaching consequences...

Don't we all feel rage when we are bullied and helpless in that moment when we are unable to defend ourselves...

Didn't we all want the dog butcher 6 six feet under...

Imagine if you had someone broken from abuse and now grown up into someone strong enough to exact his revenge.....with that same child-like mentality... who until then had not received help and was still in that abuse cycle...

Bullying behaviour is learned....

 

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Um....? I'm not sure where you're getting the impression that I think Eunho is a psychopath and "deserves what he got," @bedifferent? I've repeatedly expressed my desire for Eunho to survive the upcoming episodes and for him to get therapy so that he can begin to heal and recover ASAP. To be perfectly honest, I've not felt this much visceral pity and grief for a fictional character in one hell of a very long time. He deserved absolutely none of the crap that life threw at him, and he deserves a chance to see that there's a better way to deal with his problems, that healing and recovery are possible without resorting to more violence and pain.

 

My recent posts were more about possible explanations as to how and why he could have done what he did without resorting to the "well, someone else actually did it and he's taking the fall for them, it wasn't actually his fault" explanation like some have been theorizing. Like, I mean, sure, that could definitely be the case, and tbh it would be a load off my mind if some of my earlier theories turned out to be actually true, and that impassioned 4 page essay I wrote after episodes 23/24 aired wasn't rendered mostly moot, lol. :lol:

 

Until we get some concrete answers, though, I'm playing devil's advocate and asking well, what if that wasn't the case? What if there is no "man behind the man"? What then would explain Eunho's actions in a way that's believable but also revises the image of the the irredeemable nut job that everyone initially believed Red Cry to be into something that fits with the character we now have a better understanding of? Therefore, I was attempting to psychoanalyze Eunho a bit (insofar as one can psychoanalyze a fictional character) in light of the new information we've been given about him to see what might make him tick, and what I came up with so far was this:

  • He has a child's simple, straightforward, black and white view of the world that allows him to make snap judgements about people, like he did with Hana's mother or Jiheon.
  • He doesn't have worry about charming/coercing people into joining Red Cry to be because all the groundwork for recruitment was laid by the Doctor, and the current members are currently in charge of recruiting, so he doesn't have to contend with how socially-awkward he is around adults irl most of the time.
  • He simply can't conceive of any other way of saving himself and these children and exposing the crimes of those who hurt them than to directly go for the perceived root of their problems, aka their abusers, because of how he was raised and how horribly he's suffered all his life. To him, the only way to possibly end pain caused by abuse is death, either yours or the person causing it.
  • He has this deep, seething fury boiling within him, just waiting to be unleashed if he's pressed too far, just as Wookyung does; yet looking at her, you wouldn't think she has anger issues, would you? We hardly ever see her get truly angry, and we've spent far more screentime with her than we have Eunho. If Eunho sees a reflection of himself in her eyes, a kindred soul, so to speak, then it would only make logical sense that even when he's deeply, desperately angry and upset about something, it normally doesn't show on his face, just like Wookyung. As Sooyoung has said, Wookyung "screams with her whole body," not her words. It's the same with Eunho, imho.

 

So, to recap, Eunho's not manipulative and conniving, he doesn't have a god complex, he's not violent for the sake of it, aka, he's not an unrepentant, run of the mill psychopath. He's a broken, hurting, deeply traumatized person who was trying to help these suffering children he has so much genuine compassion for in the only way he knew how. Do I agree with his methods? Hell no, but I don't need to in order to sympathize with him and understand where he was coming from and to desperately wish that things could have turned out differently for him.

 

And I don't really see how Eunho being the main driving force behind Red Cry suddenly removes all sympathy from his situation and the situation of others like him, tbh. I don't think anyone with half a working heart or brain would look at this drama and come away only thinking, "Well, crap, an abused kid turned into a serial killer of abusive parents. SIGH, well, I suppose we should do something about those gosh-darned child abusers, or else all the kids will turn into serial killers, and we can't have that now, can we." Like, obviously that's not what the writer is trying to get across here? Eunho is meant to be an extreme example of what could possibly happen when someone is abused that badly for that long, it's true, but clearly, we're still meant to empathize with him. Just because he's done ill-advised things doesn't mean he's beyond saving or redemption. Even before anyone knew for sure who Red Cry was, I suspected that the person behind them was an abused child themselves, and expressed hope that if that was the case, then the show would still hold out the possibility of redemption to the character, without knowing anything about them or their situation. Now that I do know, that hope has only grown stronger.

 

Now, if you personally happen to think that if the show continues as is right now and doesn't throw in any more big twists or reveals into the Red Cry plotline to show that some evil shadowy figure was controlling and manipulating him this whole time to do what he did, then that would make Eunho irredeemable and completely unsympathetic and renders the whole point of the drama moot, then of course you're free to think that. I vehemently, if respectfully, disagree with that interpretation, for the reasons outlined above and in other posts I've written, but, y'know. To each their own. And like I said, the possibility that there is something deeper behind the story that Eunho told to Wookyung is still open, not saying there aren't still twists and turns in store for us when it comes to the Red Cry storyline, and I'm completely open to that option being a plausible outcome in the next couple of episodes. I would be fine with it. But even if it turns out that this part of the drama is pretty much wrapped up at this point, that wouldn't change how I fundamentally feel about Eunho and his situation.

 

But again, that's just me.

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16 hours ago, 0timelost said:

and although that the show revealed he was the one who killed Hana's mother and father, there are also time when LEH seemed like he wasn't sure about the specific details (that the body found was a woman and that there a skeleton remain of a child). It might be that he was actually surprised about these details, or it might be a red herring to make the viewer think that LEH wasn't Red Cry.

 

I really believed his reactions that time and It is hard for me to accept that everything was a red herring to make us think he was not Red Cry. But if it was a red herring, that was a good one. I salute the writer. I know I like a writer when he/ she uses skilfully the red herring in the writing, with subtle manipulation.

 

16 hours ago, 0timelost said:

He obviously knows that the shoelace would have clued them into his real identity (that's why he left the envelop with the USB with the shoes), but why was he suddenly confessing to everything when just an episode ago, he was ready to knock out JH to hide his identity? I think it is because LEH realized the police is on this case, so he decided to take the fall for him and his comrade. Just like how he intentionally hinted to CWK that he knew Red Cry, so she would come back to investigate. LEH's behavior indicated he was protecting someone...but whom?

 

Exactly. A good point. Maybe that`s why it is hard for me to acknowledged that Eun Ho is Red Cry. If he is, then I will believe it eventually but I still have my doubts. Eun Ho decided to kill his abuser and break the vicious circle, knowing well that he will die next. He helped and orchestrated the ruin of the center (and took down the director and head director) and then he was ready to die.  It is just like the suicide of the doctor after he killed Park Ji Hye. He was just a part of the organization. I think they will continue. I am curious if Si Wan`s case will be next.

We`ll see in the last four episodes. I am sure all our questions and doubts will be resolved. 

 

I`ve never been so curios about the resolution of a mystery drama. I want to know what happens next. Even if Eun Ho was indeed Red Cry and the mastermind of the organization, what is going to do next Woo Kyung? What is the mystery surrounding her family? 

 

 

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@cyan5tarlight I think there is a misunderstanding.  I don’t believe that you think Eunho is a psychopath or deserves what he got.

 

In fact, my point is that I wish either (1) he survived to tell his story or (2 ) he’s not the sole person responsible for Red Cry because I believe healing is needed for him and it is one  of the drama’s msg.  With him not revealing that he was abused by Head Director, his killing may remain unsympathetic to others and even deemed him as a psychopath killing a beloved kind old man.  He has never told anyone about his sexual abuse or did he that I missed?  So we cannot end here with Eunho dead.  That is not what I want how the drama to end his story.  

 

Of course, I sympathize with his pain and circumstances as with many people.  What made it even more tragic is that CWK offered him a way out, a new employment, but he threw the contact paper away.  She pleaded with him twice to walk away as did Jiheon.  It came down to the choice of an individual.  However, he is broken, psychologically cornered and possibly irreversibly defeated, that he could not see the option as viable.  He lowered the gun temporarily yet couldn’t stop.  The drama can’t just end with Eunho being defeated this way.  It’s just too depressing and hopeless for all the children that he represents.  My hope is that he did not suffer in vain for another person’s vendetta.

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Finally I had a chance to watch Thursday's episodes with subs. There have been so many awesome theories, thoughts and viewpoints on this thread, I don't feel the need to add too much to them.

 

A few thoughts of my own:

  • I applaud the writer for having the courage to show Eun-ho's past traumas and what made him into a murderer. As I have stated many times on this thread, there is always a reason why a person commits a terrible act. It's alright to judge the act, but it's great if one can find some empathy and understanding for the person who committed the act. When it comes to this drama, it seems the writer succeeded gaining sympathy for LEH despite the horrible crimes he committed. That is a very powerful and strong message that, I feel, is important to remember when it comes to real-life criminals.
  • I could be wrong here, but I don't think anyone else than LEH is Red Cry. I think that the writer will use the rest of the episodes to dwell into the past of CWK, CSK, stepmom, JH and perhaps the female detective too. We might get some more revelations about Red Cry, but I hope the writer focuses on bringing healing to our remaining characters.
  • The story of CWK and CSK intrigues me. Maybe CSK is the real CSK or then she is an adopted child (maybe smth happened to the real CSK). What is certain is that the stepmom is hiding something. She is not a warm and affectionate person, not in touch with her own feelings. She has set them aside. Even CSK said about stepmom: "I don't like the look in her eyes.It's scary. Do you know how coldly she looks at me?". Something's fishy here....

Also, as a last thought: In my opinion, Lee Eun-ho died in that last scene.

The reason why I think that is because of the beautiful cinematography in Thursday's episodes. The director utilized very well light and scenery to convey feelings in different scenes:

  • How fitting that it was snowing while CWK was driving and LEH was telling about his crimes. Snow symbolizes purity and cleansing. LEH was finally able to tell someone about his crime. Even though he believed 100% that he was right in committing those murders, he knew he was going to die and therefore probably felt the need to confess his sins to someone.
  • When they stop at the pier / light house, we see the sun shining on the light house and the dark clouds starting to move away.
  • In the last scene, the snow has stopped falling and the sun is shining. LEH is shot, and goes limp in JH's arms - all the while the sun is shining on his face.

Though it was sad, it was also very beautiful. I interpreted it as such that LEH finally found peace...

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9 hours ago, bedifferent said:

 

 

.....exit wounds typically are larger cuz the bullet explodes inside and slowed down so it has to push harder to exit.  Exit wounds are larger and bleed more.   In Eunho’s case, hard to know at this point if he was shot in the back by someone other than Jiheon (which does make sense) or bled profusely because the bullet damaged his heart/lung.  The angle is too harsh, can’t see how Jiheon would even consider shooting at his chest.  It’s easier to try the arm, leg or lower torso.  If he meant to kill him, he wouldn’t have shown that much concern afterward.....

 

 

I am not an expert on matters regarding guns but I do know a bit, so I am going to have to disagree on this point:  bullets do not explode in the body unless the ammunition is designed to do so.  

 

A bullet is a projectile.  Gun powder is the explosive charge that puts the bullet into motion.  Unless a bullet is of a specific type (generally called a hollow-point), it does not explode inside the target.  The damage done by a bullet is the path that it takes as it travels through the body.  And, yes, it may have to push harder to exit.

 

Any bullet can kill, even if it hits an arm or a leg--it all depends if it hits a major blood vessel.  However, if the bullet is a hollow-point, it really does not matter where the shooter aims because the victim is very likely to die because of the explosive impact. As I understand it, most police forces universally avoid the use of hollow-points. 

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"your-father-killed-my-father-so-now-I-kill-your-father shtick..."

 

My example was different. You misunderstood me or twisted my words purposely. (?)

I meant special cases. Again: How can be the life of the PERVERT, ABUSIVE MURDERER equal to the life of the abused and murdered child? It is just nonsense. Any sane person who has normal sense of justice would think and say the same or similar as me.

 

Every psychopathic murderous filth should be removed from society forever or if when it is necessary it should be destroyed.

In the ancient cultures when humanity was UNCORRUPTED the old legal systems were much better in many ways. People were more just and righteous, their sense of justice were better.

Today humanity became really devolved and decayed unfortunately. Most of our original spiritual, ethical, and other kinds of knowledge were destroyed or corrupted and also replaced by stupid, useless and often dangerous and harmful dogmas and false ideologies which are all from the enemies of humanity...

Because of these stupid and false ideologies and also because of the fake belief systems (so called "religions" which are enemy mind-programs) most of humanity became so domesticated and mind controlled that it resulted such people like you, for example. Who even wants to be controlled by a mere forum. :'D Sorry but this is so funny.

 

And no, there were no proper words instead of bllsh*t. Because this word expressed the best I wanted to refer. And this word was not used on a person.

And yes, of course censoring "harsh" words has to do with repression of free speech too.

Often disgusting and filthy things are being expressed by harsh or vulgar words. It is normal. Censoring and repressing harsh words are meant to repress one's anger and hatred which is not normal and unhealthy. These are just natural human feelings like love.

What is hateful it should be hated, what is disrespectful it should be disrespected, what is really sick, disgusting and filthy it could be represented with such words. Freely.

 

You mentioned there are no perfect man-made systems. Actually there were perfect man-made system on Earth, but that was in the Golden Age and humanity then was not the mind-controlled slaves of alien parasitic filths...

I could go on, speak more and expose more but I know there are such sane and rational people who already realized what and who I was talking about here...

 

As for the drama, I always hope there will be justice in these dramas at least but there is not too much justice in them, usually. Eun Ho should not have died I think, (if he died) if not I hope he will survive it. He obviously needs serious help and of course he should get some punishment too but he should receive reduced charges and lesser sentence due to his extenuating circumstances. 

I qouted but it seems it didn't show. My former comment is for xxPeepsxx user.

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48 minutes ago, Desdemona Diamandis said:

In the ancient cultures when humanity was UNCORRUPTED the old legal systems were much better in many ways. People were more just and righteous, their sense of justice were better.

 

LMAO, if you really believe this, I have to hand it to you. Humanity has never been corruption free. It is in humans to be greedy and want better lives. There will always be those who think they're owed more than others, like colonialists. Please back up your statement with evidence. Which Golden Age are you talking about? What old legal system are you talking about? Please also note that history is written by winners and can be biased, so take off your rose coloured glasses. Slaves. Killing of deformed babies. Genocide. War. Battles. Abuse and exploitation. Scapegoating. Take your pick. There has never been a time when none of the above happens. 

 

 

48 minutes ago, Desdemona Diamandis said:

And no, there were no proper words instead of bllsh*t. Because this word expressed the best I wanted to refer. And this word was not used on a person.

And yes, of course censoring "harsh" words has to do with repression of free speech too.

 

If you can't think of any other word, it's not Soompi's fault for trying to prevent trolling, Strawman arguments and disrespect by censoring swear words because it seems like that's all those who try to do the above know and use. It's on you for having a small vocabulary and not being able to describe your situation well. Filthy, disgusting, abomination, preposterous, blasphemous, treacherous, incomprehensible and unfair nonsense... etc. Here are a few words you can use that Soompi won't censor. They're harsh, but not swear words. It's not that I want Soompi to censor me. I just understand why Soompi does and accept it because it promotes peace on its boards which I LIKE. Plus, Soompi isn't stopping me from airing any single one of my opinions which I am doing so perfectly now.

 

I don't have a religion anyway, as if that matters at all, so I'm not mind controlled or domesticated like you so "beautifully" put, as if people with religion can't think critically and are all sheep. I find it interesting that you believe someone who thinks differently from you to be mind controlled, as if your narrative is the only acceptable one... Which is the definition of mind controlled... How can 7 billion people in the world think the same way?

 

In real life, how do you even know who is a "PERVERT, ABUSIVE MURDERER" without competent and objective police, prosecutor and judge? Are you implying we should just lock up everyone who is believed to be one? If so, please refer to the United States of America where lots of innocent Blacks are locked up  and even killed just because they were believed to be as such from prejudice born from the colour of their skin.

 

Lastly, why do you talk in circles and assume people know what "sane" belief you're referring to? Have some balls and get straight to the point.

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4 hours ago, cyan5tarlight said:
 

Um....? I'm not sure where you're getting the impression that I think Eunho is a psychopath and "deserves what he got,"

@bedifferent? I've repeatedly expressed my desire for Eunho to survive the upcoming episodes and for him to get therapy so that he can begin to heal and recover ASAP. To be perfectly honest, I've not felt this much visceral pity and grief for a fictional character in one hell of a very long time. He deserved absolutely none of the crap that life threw at him, and he deserves a chance to see that there's a better way to deal with his problems, that healing and recovery are possible without resorting to more violence and pain.

 

My recent posts were more about possible explanations as to how and why he could have done what he did without resorting to the "well, someone else actually did it and he's taking the fall for them, it wasn't actually his fault" explanation like some have been theorizing. Like, I mean, sure, that could definitely be the case, and tbh it would be a load off my mind if some of my earlier theories turned out to be actually true, and that impassioned 4 page essay I wrote after episodes 23/24 aired wasn't rendered mostly moot, lol. :lol:

 

Until we get some concrete answers, though, I'm playing devil's advocate and asking well, what if that wasn't the case? What if there is no "man behind the man"? What then would explain Eunho's actions in a way that's believable but also revises the image of the the irredeemable nut job that everyone initially believed Red Cry to be into something that fits with the character we now have a better understanding of? Therefore, I was attempting to psychoanalyze Eunho a bit (insofar as one can psychoanalyze a fictional character) in light of the new information we've been given about him to see what might make him tick, and what I came up with so far was this:

  • He has a child's simple, straightforward, black and white view of the world that allows him to make snap judgements about people, like he did with Hana's mother or Jiheon.
  • He doesn't have worry about charming/coercing people into joining Red Cry to be because all the groundwork for recruitment was laid by the Doctor, and the current members are currently in charge of recruiting, so he doesn't have to contend with how socially-awkward he is around adults irl most of the time.
  • He simply can't conceive of any other way of saving himself and these children and exposing the crimes of those who hurt them than to directly go for the perceived root of their problems, aka their abusers, because of how he was raised and how horribly he's suffered all his life. To him, the only way to possibly end pain caused by abuse is death, either yours or the person causing it.
  • He has this deep, seething fury boiling within him, just waiting to be unleashed if he's pressed too far, just as Wookyung does; yet looking at her, you wouldn't think she has anger issues, would you? We hardly ever see her get truly angry, and we've spent far more screentime with her than we have Eunho. If Eunho sees a reflection of himself in her eyes, a kindred soul, so to speak, then it would only make logical sense that even when he's deeply, desperately angry and upset about something, it normally doesn't show on his face, just like Wookyung. As Sooyoung has said, Wookyung "screams with her whole body," not her words. It's the same with Eunho, imho.

 

So, to recap, Eunho's not manipulative and conniving, he doesn't have a god complex, he's not violent for the sake of it, aka, he's not an unrepentant, run of the mill psychopath. He's a broken, hurting, deeply traumatized person who was trying to help these suffering children he has so much genuine compassion for in the only way he knew how. Do I agree with his methods? Hell no, but I don't need to in order to sympathize with him and understand where he was coming from and to desperately wish that things could have turned out differently for him.

 

And I don't really see how Eunho being the main driving force behind Red Cry suddenly removes all sympathy from his situation and the situation of others like him, tbh. I don't think anyone with half a working heart or brain would look at this drama and come away only thinking, "Well, crap, an abused kid turned into a serial killer of abusive parents. SIGH, well, I suppose we should do something about those gosh-darned child abusers, or else all the kids will turn into serial killers, and we can't have that now, can we." Like, obviously that's not what the writer is trying to get across here? Eunho is meant to be an extreme example of what could possibly happen when someone is abused that badly for that long, it's true, but clearly, we're still meant to empathize with him. Just because he's done ill-advised things doesn't mean he's beyond saving or redemption. Even before anyone knew for sure who Red Cry was, I suspected that the person behind them was an abused child themselves, and expressed hope that if that was the case, then the show would still hold out the possibility of redemption to the character, without knowing anything about them or their situation. Now that I do know, that hope has only grown stronger.

 

Now, if you personally happen to think that if the show continues as is right now and doesn't throw in any more big twists or reveals into the Red Cry plotline to show that some evil shadowy figure was controlling and manipulating him this whole time to do what he did, then that would make Eunho irredeemable and completely unsympathetic and renders the whole point of the drama moot, then of course you're free to think that. I vehemently, if respectfully, disagree with that interpretation, for the reasons outlined above and in other posts I've written, but, y'know. To each their own. And like I said, the possibility that there is something deeper behind the story that Eunho told to Wookyung is still open, not saying there aren't still twists and turns in store for us when it comes to the Red Cry storyline, and I'm completely open to that option being a plausible outcome in the next couple of episodes. I would be fine with it. But even if it turns out that this part of the drama is pretty much wrapped up at this point, that wouldn't change how I fundamentally feel about Eunho and his situation.

 

But again, that's just me.

Love your post. You made very good points. I know LEH revealing he is Red Cry makes us suspicious because there are still a few episodes to go but I also tend to think that he told the truth. His story reminds me so much of cases I used to see in US series Criminal Minds back when I used to be a huge fan. If he was in fact telling the truth, I can see why he went down that path according to what was revealed about his past and even his current situation where he was still beholden to his abusers. 

 

@xxPeepsxx, I always marvel that the USA is pointed out for all kinds of failure in its justice system when if I look around the world in so many countries including Africa there are so many people who don’t even have the rights that many of us have in the USA and I’m not Caucasian. That’s not to say there aren’t injustices in the USA but we’re still not as bad as so many countries out there that people never point out. Also, human government will never be perfect and injustices will always exist because humans will be humans. Injustices existed in the past and will continue to exist in the future.

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36 minutes ago, celebrianna said:

@xxPeepsxx, I always marvel that the USA is pointed out for all kinds of failure in its justice system when if I look around the world in so many countries including Africa there are so many people who don’t even have the rights that many of us have in the USA and I’m not Caucasian. That’s not to say there aren’t injustices in the USA but we’re still not as bad as so many countries out there that people never point out. Also, human government will never be perfect and injustices will always exist because humans will be humans. Injustices existed in the past and will continue to exist in the future.

 

You are right that US citizens have got lots of rights and are freer than many others in other countries and I applaud that progress. I'm not saying that the US is abominable, although, yeah, it's got it's problems. I'm using US precisely because it's supposed to be a bastion of democracy, rights, freedom and justice... and still it hasn't gotten them down pat,even as a Super Power in the global arena. If the US can't even get them perfect in 241 years, what's the chance that the entirety of civilization and humanity had been "UNCORRUPTED"? 

 

US is used a lot specifically because it is a Super Power, influences a lot of countries, has special privilege at the negotiation table, it is like a King! And yet despite its advantages... it's not perfect. It is mentioned not because everyone's forgotten about the other countries. It's mentioned precisely because of what it stands for... and yet still isn't perfect by those standards.

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is RC's identity still in question? because im a little worried that LEH's warning to cwk could be akin to fight club 2.0 and it's been her pulling strings all along.

 

oh.. and i actually find it hilarious that soompi uses richard simmons to censor swear words. :lol:

 

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1 hour ago, bella1025 said:

oh.. and i actually find it hilarious that soompi uses richard simmons to censor swear words. :lol:

 

It is funny in a way but also quite sad. 

 

The actual Richard Simmons can be seen as annoying because he is such a "character" and that deflects from the fact that he is a person who has done a great deal of good with his life and with his fame.  He has reached out to help thousands and thousands of people in a quiet way that has not been much publicized (notably, making personal phone calls daily to encourage people who are enduring crisis) and he has given much time and money to charity. 

 

I'm not a fan of Richard Simmons myself but I do admire his devotion to human good.  He doesn't deserve the ignominy of being made a swear substitute, and I literally cringe every time I see his name used in place of a swear. 

 

I hope that he never knows the way that his name is used here.  :(

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Tribute to his character Eunho, taken by Kim Sun Ah, possibly the end of his character story.  

 

image_readtop_2019_7820_1546569423359292

starmbn

 

starmbn

 

With the children.

 

Spoiler

 

 

Unforgettable character and performance by Cha Hak-Yeon.^^

 

children_photo181120181623imbcdrama10.jp

 

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10 hours ago, cyan5tarlight said:

And I don't really see how Eunho being the main driving force behind Red Cry suddenly removes all sympathy from his situation and the situation of others like him, tbh. I don't think anyone with half a working heart or brain would look at this drama and come away only thinking, "Well, crap, an abused kid turned into a serial killer of abusive parents. SIGH, well, I suppose we should do something about those gosh-darned child abusers, or else all the kids will turn into serial killers, and we can't have that now, can we." Like, obviously that's not what the writer is trying to get across here? Eunho is meant to be an extreme example of what could possibly happen when someone is abused that badly for that long, it's true, but clearly, we're still meant to empathize with him. Just because he's done ill-advised things doesn't mean he's beyond saving or redemption. Even before anyone knew for sure who Red Cry was, I suspected that the person behind them was an abused child themselves, and expressed hope that if that was the case, then the show would still hold out the possibility of redemption to the character, without knowing anything about them or their situation. Now that I do know, that hope has only grown stronger.

 

Completely agree with you. And I have to applaud the director, producer, and writer for striking that kind of balance. Using CWK and JH as the center of moral compass and the reflection of the audience, they serve to remind the audience that as much as we despise the child abusers, taking murder into your own hand is ultimately wrong.

 

Just as how JH had questioned, "Where is Red Cry?" when he dealt with the dog butcher, many of us tempted to think like him, hoping the killer to kill the dog butcher and frustrated that the law could not touch the man. But yet the audience are reminded that kind of thinking was wrong when the dog butcher was murdered in such a brutal way.

 

Just as people despised Bit Na's mom for abusing her daughter and some wanted her to be punished for her crime, we are reminded the trama and pain that are left on the child by taking matters into our own hand. And just as people sympathize with LEH's ordeal, his conversation with CWK shows the distortion of his perception. 

 

In many ways, we are like CWK. We have violent thoughts against some people, yet we don't put it into actions. We are frustrated with the limits of the law, but we doing break it and justify that the laws are flawed, so we can break it and take matter into our own hand. And as JH's leader said, the general public would probably side with Red Cry's deed when it was revealed he was killing child abusers. And I think the drama did a wonderful job to evoke enough sympathy (that we hoped LEH would recover and redeem himself), yet comprehend we can't allow Red Cry to exist and that no one has the right to be the judges of someone's deed outside the boundary of the law. 

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11 hours ago, bedifferent said:

I think there is a misunderstanding.  I don’t believe that you think Eunho is a psychopath or deserves what he got.

 

In fact, my point is that I wish either (1) he survived to tell his story or (2 ) he’s not the sole person responsible for Red Cry because I believe healing is needed for him and it is one  of the drama’s msg.  With him not revealing that he was abused by Head Director, his killing may remain unsympathetic to others and even deemed him as a psychopath killing a beloved kind old man.  He has never told anyone about his sexual abuse or did he that I missed?  So we cannot end here with Eunho dead.  That is not what I want how the drama to end his story.  

 

Of course, I sympathize with his pain and circumstances as with many people.  What made it even more tragic is that CWK offered him a way out, a new employment, but he threw the contact paper away.  She pleaded with him twice to walk away as did Jiheon.  It came down to the choice of an individual.  However, he is broken, psychologically cornered and possibly irreversibly defeated, that he could not see the option as viable.  He lowered the gun temporarily yet couldn’t stop.  The drama can’t just end with Eunho being defeated this way.  It’s just too depressing and hopeless for all the children that he represents.  My hope is that he did not suffer in vain for another person’s vendetta.

 

Aaaaah, okay, you were talking about people in-universe thinking he's a psycho. That makes a lot more sense, glad we got that cleared up. :D

 

Well, I do think that even if he ends up dying at the lighthouse or in the hospital, the narrative won't leave his story where it is right here. Of course, I think it would be best for all parties involved if he was able to live and he received a hopeful ending in spite of everything, but have a little faith in the writer. She's brought us this far, and she clearly cares deeply about Eunho's storyline, or else she wouldn't have spent so much time showing us how he cares for the children at the center and showing us how he thinks and why.

 

He did end up telling Wookyung about what happened to him in that room with the big desk where he used to have to read poetry, after all. I mean, not in so many words, but Wookyung is not an idiot, she can put two and two together pretty easily (and by the look of horror on her face and the way she started to cry after he said "It's best to not remember" while in the Head Director's study, I think she understood his meaning quite well). She knows what happened to him, even if no one else does. She can tell his story to others, so that even if the writer doesn't let him live, his suffering won't have been in vain. I truly don't think the writer would do him that dirty.

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My take for eunho was that he felt his journey was done...as in he had saved children but at the same time he realised that there was a fallout in his methods and may have felt that there was no redemption for him.

Hence he would take out his abuser as his final act and end his personal hell....in the place where his path to hell began...

 

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3 hours ago, twin-twin said:

주특기 = specialty
소총수 = rifleman

 

Whaaaaaaaaaaatttt?????!!!!! My heart can't handle this :bawling:

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