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[Drama 2018-2019] Children of Nobody/Red Moon, Blue Sun, 붉은달 푸른해


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Um....? I'm not sure where you're getting the impression that I think Eunho is a psychopath and "deserves what he got," @bedifferent? I've repeatedly expressed my desire for Eunho to survive the upcoming episodes and for him to get therapy so that he can begin to heal and recover ASAP. To be perfectly honest, I've not felt this much visceral pity and grief for a fictional character in one hell of a very long time. He deserved absolutely none of the crap that life threw at him, and he deserves a chance to see that there's a better way to deal with his problems, that healing and recovery are possible without resorting to more violence and pain.

 

My recent posts were more about possible explanations as to how and why he could have done what he did without resorting to the "well, someone else actually did it and he's taking the fall for them, it wasn't actually his fault" explanation like some have been theorizing. Like, I mean, sure, that could definitely be the case, and tbh it would be a load off my mind if some of my earlier theories turned out to be actually true, and that impassioned 4 page essay I wrote after episodes 23/24 aired wasn't rendered mostly moot, lol. :lol:

 

Until we get some concrete answers, though, I'm playing devil's advocate and asking well, what if that wasn't the case? What if there is no "man behind the man"? What then would explain Eunho's actions in a way that's believable but also revises the image of the the irredeemable nut job that everyone initially believed Red Cry to be into something that fits with the character we now have a better understanding of? Therefore, I was attempting to psychoanalyze Eunho a bit (insofar as one can psychoanalyze a fictional character) in light of the new information we've been given about him to see what might make him tick, and what I came up with so far was this:

  • He has a child's simple, straightforward, black and white view of the world that allows him to make snap judgements about people, like he did with Hana's mother or Jiheon.
  • He doesn't have worry about charming/coercing people into joining Red Cry to be because all the groundwork for recruitment was laid by the Doctor, and the current members are currently in charge of recruiting, so he doesn't have to contend with how socially-awkward he is around adults irl most of the time.
  • He simply can't conceive of any other way of saving himself and these children and exposing the crimes of those who hurt them than to directly go for the perceived root of their problems, aka their abusers, because of how he was raised and how horribly he's suffered all his life. To him, the only way to possibly end pain caused by abuse is death, either yours or the person causing it.
  • He has this deep, seething fury boiling within him, just waiting to be unleashed if he's pressed too far, just as Wookyung does; yet looking at her, you wouldn't think she has anger issues, would you? We hardly ever see her get truly angry, and we've spent far more screentime with her than we have Eunho. If Eunho sees a reflection of himself in her eyes, a kindred soul, so to speak, then it would only make logical sense that even when he's deeply, desperately angry and upset about something, it normally doesn't show on his face, just like Wookyung. As Sooyoung has said, Wookyung "screams with her whole body," not her words. It's the same with Eunho, imho.

 

So, to recap, Eunho's not manipulative and conniving, he doesn't have a god complex, he's not violent for the sake of it, aka, he's not an unrepentant, run of the mill psychopath. He's a broken, hurting, deeply traumatized person who was trying to help these suffering children he has so much genuine compassion for in the only way he knew how. Do I agree with his methods? Hell no, but I don't need to in order to sympathize with him and understand where he was coming from and to desperately wish that things could have turned out differently for him.

 

And I don't really see how Eunho being the main driving force behind Red Cry suddenly removes all sympathy from his situation and the situation of others like him, tbh. I don't think anyone with half a working heart or brain would look at this drama and come away only thinking, "Well, crap, an abused kid turned into a serial killer of abusive parents. SIGH, well, I suppose we should do something about those gosh-darned child abusers, or else all the kids will turn into serial killers, and we can't have that now, can we." Like, obviously that's not what the writer is trying to get across here? Eunho is meant to be an extreme example of what could possibly happen when someone is abused that badly for that long, it's true, but clearly, we're still meant to empathize with him. Just because he's done ill-advised things doesn't mean he's beyond saving or redemption. Even before anyone knew for sure who Red Cry was, I suspected that the person behind them was an abused child themselves, and expressed hope that if that was the case, then the show would still hold out the possibility of redemption to the character, without knowing anything about them or their situation. Now that I do know, that hope has only grown stronger.

 

Now, if you personally happen to think that if the show continues as is right now and doesn't throw in any more big twists or reveals into the Red Cry plotline to show that some evil shadowy figure was controlling and manipulating him this whole time to do what he did, then that would make Eunho irredeemable and completely unsympathetic and renders the whole point of the drama moot, then of course you're free to think that. I vehemently, if respectfully, disagree with that interpretation, for the reasons outlined above and in other posts I've written, but, y'know. To each their own. And like I said, the possibility that there is something deeper behind the story that Eunho told to Wookyung is still open, not saying there aren't still twists and turns in store for us when it comes to the Red Cry storyline, and I'm completely open to that option being a plausible outcome in the next couple of episodes. I would be fine with it. But even if it turns out that this part of the drama is pretty much wrapped up at this point, that wouldn't change how I fundamentally feel about Eunho and his situation.

 

But again, that's just me.

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16 hours ago, 0timelost said:

and although that the show revealed he was the one who killed Hana's mother and father, there are also time when LEH seemed like he wasn't sure about the specific details (that the body found was a woman and that there a skeleton remain of a child). It might be that he was actually surprised about these details, or it might be a red herring to make the viewer think that LEH wasn't Red Cry.

 

I really believed his reactions that time and It is hard for me to accept that everything was a red herring to make us think he was not Red Cry. But if it was a red herring, that was a good one. I salute the writer. I know I like a writer when he/ she uses skilfully the red herring in the writing, with subtle manipulation.

 

16 hours ago, 0timelost said:

He obviously knows that the shoelace would have clued them into his real identity (that's why he left the envelop with the USB with the shoes), but why was he suddenly confessing to everything when just an episode ago, he was ready to knock out JH to hide his identity? I think it is because LEH realized the police is on this case, so he decided to take the fall for him and his comrade. Just like how he intentionally hinted to CWK that he knew Red Cry, so she would come back to investigate. LEH's behavior indicated he was protecting someone...but whom?

 

Exactly. A good point. Maybe that`s why it is hard for me to acknowledged that Eun Ho is Red Cry. If he is, then I will believe it eventually but I still have my doubts. Eun Ho decided to kill his abuser and break the vicious circle, knowing well that he will die next. He helped and orchestrated the ruin of the center (and took down the director and head director) and then he was ready to die.  It is just like the suicide of the doctor after he killed Park Ji Hye. He was just a part of the organization. I think they will continue. I am curious if Si Wan`s case will be next.

We`ll see in the last four episodes. I am sure all our questions and doubts will be resolved. 

 

I`ve never been so curios about the resolution of a mystery drama. I want to know what happens next. Even if Eun Ho was indeed Red Cry and the mastermind of the organization, what is going to do next Woo Kyung? What is the mystery surrounding her family? 

 

 

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@cyan5tarlight I think there is a misunderstanding.  I don’t believe that you think Eunho is a psychopath or deserves what he got.

 

In fact, my point is that I wish either (1) he survived to tell his story or (2 ) he’s not the sole person responsible for Red Cry because I believe healing is needed for him and it is one  of the drama’s msg.  With him not revealing that he was abused by Head Director, his killing may remain unsympathetic to others and even deemed him as a psychopath killing a beloved kind old man.  He has never told anyone about his sexual abuse or did he that I missed?  So we cannot end here with Eunho dead.  That is not what I want how the drama to end his story.  

 

Of course, I sympathize with his pain and circumstances as with many people.  What made it even more tragic is that CWK offered him a way out, a new employment, but he threw the contact paper away.  She pleaded with him twice to walk away as did Jiheon.  It came down to the choice of an individual.  However, he is broken, psychologically cornered and possibly irreversibly defeated, that he could not see the option as viable.  He lowered the gun temporarily yet couldn’t stop.  The drama can’t just end with Eunho being defeated this way.  It’s just too depressing and hopeless for all the children that he represents.  My hope is that he did not suffer in vain for another person’s vendetta.

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Finally I had a chance to watch Thursday's episodes with subs. There have been so many awesome theories, thoughts and viewpoints on this thread, I don't feel the need to add too much to them.

 

A few thoughts of my own:

  • I applaud the writer for having the courage to show Eun-ho's past traumas and what made him into a murderer. As I have stated many times on this thread, there is always a reason why a person commits a terrible act. It's alright to judge the act, but it's great if one can find some empathy and understanding for the person who committed the act. When it comes to this drama, it seems the writer succeeded gaining sympathy for LEH despite the horrible crimes he committed. That is a very powerful and strong message that, I feel, is important to remember when it comes to real-life criminals.
  • I could be wrong here, but I don't think anyone else than LEH is Red Cry. I think that the writer will use the rest of the episodes to dwell into the past of CWK, CSK, stepmom, JH and perhaps the female detective too. We might get some more revelations about Red Cry, but I hope the writer focuses on bringing healing to our remaining characters.
  • The story of CWK and CSK intrigues me. Maybe CSK is the real CSK or then she is an adopted child (maybe smth happened to the real CSK). What is certain is that the stepmom is hiding something. She is not a warm and affectionate person, not in touch with her own feelings. She has set them aside. Even CSK said about stepmom: "I don't like the look in her eyes.It's scary. Do you know how coldly she looks at me?". Something's fishy here....

Also, as a last thought: In my opinion, Lee Eun-ho died in that last scene.

The reason why I think that is because of the beautiful cinematography in Thursday's episodes. The director utilized very well light and scenery to convey feelings in different scenes:

  • How fitting that it was snowing while CWK was driving and LEH was telling about his crimes. Snow symbolizes purity and cleansing. LEH was finally able to tell someone about his crime. Even though he believed 100% that he was right in committing those murders, he knew he was going to die and therefore probably felt the need to confess his sins to someone.
  • When they stop at the pier / light house, we see the sun shining on the light house and the dark clouds starting to move away.
  • In the last scene, the snow has stopped falling and the sun is shining. LEH is shot, and goes limp in JH's arms - all the while the sun is shining on his face.

Though it was sad, it was also very beautiful. I interpreted it as such that LEH finally found peace...

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9 hours ago, bedifferent said:

 

 

.....exit wounds typically are larger cuz the bullet explodes inside and slowed down so it has to push harder to exit.  Exit wounds are larger and bleed more.   In Eunho’s case, hard to know at this point if he was shot in the back by someone other than Jiheon (which does make sense) or bled profusely because the bullet damaged his heart/lung.  The angle is too harsh, can’t see how Jiheon would even consider shooting at his chest.  It’s easier to try the arm, leg or lower torso.  If he meant to kill him, he wouldn’t have shown that much concern afterward.....

 

 

I am not an expert on matters regarding guns but I do know a bit, so I am going to have to disagree on this point:  bullets do not explode in the body unless the ammunition is designed to do so.  

 

A bullet is a projectile.  Gun powder is the explosive charge that puts the bullet into motion.  Unless a bullet is of a specific type (generally called a hollow-point), it does not explode inside the target.  The damage done by a bullet is the path that it takes as it travels through the body.  And, yes, it may have to push harder to exit.

 

Any bullet can kill, even if it hits an arm or a leg--it all depends if it hits a major blood vessel.  However, if the bullet is a hollow-point, it really does not matter where the shooter aims because the victim is very likely to die because of the explosive impact. As I understand it, most police forces universally avoid the use of hollow-points. 

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"your-father-killed-my-father-so-now-I-kill-your-father shtick..."

 

My example was different. You misunderstood me or twisted my words purposely. (?)

I meant special cases. Again: How can be the life of the PERVERT, ABUSIVE MURDERER equal to the life of the abused and murdered child? It is just nonsense. Any sane person who has normal sense of justice would think and say the same or similar as me.

 

Every psychopathic murderous filth should be removed from society forever or if when it is necessary it should be destroyed.

In the ancient cultures when humanity was UNCORRUPTED the old legal systems were much better in many ways. People were more just and righteous, their sense of justice were better.

Today humanity became really devolved and decayed unfortunately. Most of our original spiritual, ethical, and other kinds of knowledge were destroyed or corrupted and also replaced by stupid, useless and often dangerous and harmful dogmas and false ideologies which are all from the enemies of humanity...

Because of these stupid and false ideologies and also because of the fake belief systems (so called "religions" which are enemy mind-programs) most of humanity became so domesticated and mind controlled that it resulted such people like you, for example. Who even wants to be controlled by a mere forum. :'D Sorry but this is so funny.

 

And no, there were no proper words instead of bllsh*t. Because this word expressed the best I wanted to refer. And this word was not used on a person.

And yes, of course censoring "harsh" words has to do with repression of free speech too.

Often disgusting and filthy things are being expressed by harsh or vulgar words. It is normal. Censoring and repressing harsh words are meant to repress one's anger and hatred which is not normal and unhealthy. These are just natural human feelings like love.

What is hateful it should be hated, what is disrespectful it should be disrespected, what is really sick, disgusting and filthy it could be represented with such words. Freely.

 

You mentioned there are no perfect man-made systems. Actually there were perfect man-made system on Earth, but that was in the Golden Age and humanity then was not the mind-controlled slaves of alien parasitic filths...

I could go on, speak more and expose more but I know there are such sane and rational people who already realized what and who I was talking about here...

 

As for the drama, I always hope there will be justice in these dramas at least but there is not too much justice in them, usually. Eun Ho should not have died I think, (if he died) if not I hope he will survive it. He obviously needs serious help and of course he should get some punishment too but he should receive reduced charges and lesser sentence due to his extenuating circumstances. 

I qouted but it seems it didn't show. My former comment is for xxPeepsxx user.

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48 minutes ago, Desdemona Diamandis said:

In the ancient cultures when humanity was UNCORRUPTED the old legal systems were much better in many ways. People were more just and righteous, their sense of justice were better.

 

LMAO, if you really believe this, I have to hand it to you. Humanity has never been corruption free. It is in humans to be greedy and want better lives. There will always be those who think they're owed more than others, like colonialists. Please back up your statement with evidence. Which Golden Age are you talking about? What old legal system are you talking about? Please also note that history is written by winners and can be biased, so take off your rose coloured glasses. Slaves. Killing of deformed babies. Genocide. War. Battles. Abuse and exploitation. Scapegoating. Take your pick. There has never been a time when none of the above happens. 

 

 

48 minutes ago, Desdemona Diamandis said:

And no, there were no proper words instead of bllsh*t. Because this word expressed the best I wanted to refer. And this word was not used on a person.

And yes, of course censoring "harsh" words has to do with repression of free speech too.

 

If you can't think of any other word, it's not Soompi's fault for trying to prevent trolling, Strawman arguments and disrespect by censoring swear words because it seems like that's all those who try to do the above know and use. It's on you for having a small vocabulary and not being able to describe your situation well. Filthy, disgusting, abomination, preposterous, blasphemous, treacherous, incomprehensible and unfair nonsense... etc. Here are a few words you can use that Soompi won't censor. They're harsh, but not swear words. It's not that I want Soompi to censor me. I just understand why Soompi does and accept it because it promotes peace on its boards which I LIKE. Plus, Soompi isn't stopping me from airing any single one of my opinions which I am doing so perfectly now.

 

I don't have a religion anyway, as if that matters at all, so I'm not mind controlled or domesticated like you so "beautifully" put, as if people with religion can't think critically and are all sheep. I find it interesting that you believe someone who thinks differently from you to be mind controlled, as if your narrative is the only acceptable one... Which is the definition of mind controlled... How can 7 billion people in the world think the same way?

 

In real life, how do you even know who is a "PERVERT, ABUSIVE MURDERER" without competent and objective police, prosecutor and judge? Are you implying we should just lock up everyone who is believed to be one? If so, please refer to the United States of America where lots of innocent Blacks are locked up  and even killed just because they were believed to be as such from prejudice born from the colour of their skin.

 

Lastly, why do you talk in circles and assume people know what "sane" belief you're referring to? Have some balls and get straight to the point.

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4 hours ago, cyan5tarlight said:
 

Um....? I'm not sure where you're getting the impression that I think Eunho is a psychopath and "deserves what he got,"

@bedifferent? I've repeatedly expressed my desire for Eunho to survive the upcoming episodes and for him to get therapy so that he can begin to heal and recover ASAP. To be perfectly honest, I've not felt this much visceral pity and grief for a fictional character in one hell of a very long time. He deserved absolutely none of the crap that life threw at him, and he deserves a chance to see that there's a better way to deal with his problems, that healing and recovery are possible without resorting to more violence and pain.

 

My recent posts were more about possible explanations as to how and why he could have done what he did without resorting to the "well, someone else actually did it and he's taking the fall for them, it wasn't actually his fault" explanation like some have been theorizing. Like, I mean, sure, that could definitely be the case, and tbh it would be a load off my mind if some of my earlier theories turned out to be actually true, and that impassioned 4 page essay I wrote after episodes 23/24 aired wasn't rendered mostly moot, lol. :lol:

 

Until we get some concrete answers, though, I'm playing devil's advocate and asking well, what if that wasn't the case? What if there is no "man behind the man"? What then would explain Eunho's actions in a way that's believable but also revises the image of the the irredeemable nut job that everyone initially believed Red Cry to be into something that fits with the character we now have a better understanding of? Therefore, I was attempting to psychoanalyze Eunho a bit (insofar as one can psychoanalyze a fictional character) in light of the new information we've been given about him to see what might make him tick, and what I came up with so far was this:

  • He has a child's simple, straightforward, black and white view of the world that allows him to make snap judgements about people, like he did with Hana's mother or Jiheon.
  • He doesn't have worry about charming/coercing people into joining Red Cry to be because all the groundwork for recruitment was laid by the Doctor, and the current members are currently in charge of recruiting, so he doesn't have to contend with how socially-awkward he is around adults irl most of the time.
  • He simply can't conceive of any other way of saving himself and these children and exposing the crimes of those who hurt them than to directly go for the perceived root of their problems, aka their abusers, because of how he was raised and how horribly he's suffered all his life. To him, the only way to possibly end pain caused by abuse is death, either yours or the person causing it.
  • He has this deep, seething fury boiling within him, just waiting to be unleashed if he's pressed too far, just as Wookyung does; yet looking at her, you wouldn't think she has anger issues, would you? We hardly ever see her get truly angry, and we've spent far more screentime with her than we have Eunho. If Eunho sees a reflection of himself in her eyes, a kindred soul, so to speak, then it would only make logical sense that even when he's deeply, desperately angry and upset about something, it normally doesn't show on his face, just like Wookyung. As Sooyoung has said, Wookyung "screams with her whole body," not her words. It's the same with Eunho, imho.

 

So, to recap, Eunho's not manipulative and conniving, he doesn't have a god complex, he's not violent for the sake of it, aka, he's not an unrepentant, run of the mill psychopath. He's a broken, hurting, deeply traumatized person who was trying to help these suffering children he has so much genuine compassion for in the only way he knew how. Do I agree with his methods? Hell no, but I don't need to in order to sympathize with him and understand where he was coming from and to desperately wish that things could have turned out differently for him.

 

And I don't really see how Eunho being the main driving force behind Red Cry suddenly removes all sympathy from his situation and the situation of others like him, tbh. I don't think anyone with half a working heart or brain would look at this drama and come away only thinking, "Well, crap, an abused kid turned into a serial killer of abusive parents. SIGH, well, I suppose we should do something about those gosh-darned child abusers, or else all the kids will turn into serial killers, and we can't have that now, can we." Like, obviously that's not what the writer is trying to get across here? Eunho is meant to be an extreme example of what could possibly happen when someone is abused that badly for that long, it's true, but clearly, we're still meant to empathize with him. Just because he's done ill-advised things doesn't mean he's beyond saving or redemption. Even before anyone knew for sure who Red Cry was, I suspected that the person behind them was an abused child themselves, and expressed hope that if that was the case, then the show would still hold out the possibility of redemption to the character, without knowing anything about them or their situation. Now that I do know, that hope has only grown stronger.

 

Now, if you personally happen to think that if the show continues as is right now and doesn't throw in any more big twists or reveals into the Red Cry plotline to show that some evil shadowy figure was controlling and manipulating him this whole time to do what he did, then that would make Eunho irredeemable and completely unsympathetic and renders the whole point of the drama moot, then of course you're free to think that. I vehemently, if respectfully, disagree with that interpretation, for the reasons outlined above and in other posts I've written, but, y'know. To each their own. And like I said, the possibility that there is something deeper behind the story that Eunho told to Wookyung is still open, not saying there aren't still twists and turns in store for us when it comes to the Red Cry storyline, and I'm completely open to that option being a plausible outcome in the next couple of episodes. I would be fine with it. But even if it turns out that this part of the drama is pretty much wrapped up at this point, that wouldn't change how I fundamentally feel about Eunho and his situation.

 

But again, that's just me.

Love your post. You made very good points. I know LEH revealing he is Red Cry makes us suspicious because there are still a few episodes to go but I also tend to think that he told the truth. His story reminds me so much of cases I used to see in US series Criminal Minds back when I used to be a huge fan. If he was in fact telling the truth, I can see why he went down that path according to what was revealed about his past and even his current situation where he was still beholden to his abusers. 

 

@xxPeepsxx, I always marvel that the USA is pointed out for all kinds of failure in its justice system when if I look around the world in so many countries including Africa there are so many people who don’t even have the rights that many of us have in the USA and I’m not Caucasian. That’s not to say there aren’t injustices in the USA but we’re still not as bad as so many countries out there that people never point out. Also, human government will never be perfect and injustices will always exist because humans will be humans. Injustices existed in the past and will continue to exist in the future.

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36 minutes ago, celebrianna said:

@xxPeepsxx, I always marvel that the USA is pointed out for all kinds of failure in its justice system when if I look around the world in so many countries including Africa there are so many people who don’t even have the rights that many of us have in the USA and I’m not Caucasian. That’s not to say there aren’t injustices in the USA but we’re still not as bad as so many countries out there that people never point out. Also, human government will never be perfect and injustices will always exist because humans will be humans. Injustices existed in the past and will continue to exist in the future.

 

You are right that US citizens have got lots of rights and are freer than many others in other countries and I applaud that progress. I'm not saying that the US is abominable, although, yeah, it's got it's problems. I'm using US precisely because it's supposed to be a bastion of democracy, rights, freedom and justice... and still it hasn't gotten them down pat,even as a Super Power in the global arena. If the US can't even get them perfect in 241 years, what's the chance that the entirety of civilization and humanity had been "UNCORRUPTED"? 

 

US is used a lot specifically because it is a Super Power, influences a lot of countries, has special privilege at the negotiation table, it is like a King! And yet despite its advantages... it's not perfect. It is mentioned not because everyone's forgotten about the other countries. It's mentioned precisely because of what it stands for... and yet still isn't perfect by those standards.

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is RC's identity still in question? because im a little worried that LEH's warning to cwk could be akin to fight club 2.0 and it's been her pulling strings all along.

 

oh.. and i actually find it hilarious that soompi uses richard simmons to censor swear words. :lol:

 

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1 hour ago, bella1025 said:

oh.. and i actually find it hilarious that soompi uses richard simmons to censor swear words. :lol:

 

It is funny in a way but also quite sad. 

 

The actual Richard Simmons can be seen as annoying because he is such a "character" and that deflects from the fact that he is a person who has done a great deal of good with his life and with his fame.  He has reached out to help thousands and thousands of people in a quiet way that has not been much publicized (notably, making personal phone calls daily to encourage people who are enduring crisis) and he has given much time and money to charity. 

 

I'm not a fan of Richard Simmons myself but I do admire his devotion to human good.  He doesn't deserve the ignominy of being made a swear substitute, and I literally cringe every time I see his name used in place of a swear. 

 

I hope that he never knows the way that his name is used here.  :(

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10 hours ago, cyan5tarlight said:

And I don't really see how Eunho being the main driving force behind Red Cry suddenly removes all sympathy from his situation and the situation of others like him, tbh. I don't think anyone with half a working heart or brain would look at this drama and come away only thinking, "Well, crap, an abused kid turned into a serial killer of abusive parents. SIGH, well, I suppose we should do something about those gosh-darned child abusers, or else all the kids will turn into serial killers, and we can't have that now, can we." Like, obviously that's not what the writer is trying to get across here? Eunho is meant to be an extreme example of what could possibly happen when someone is abused that badly for that long, it's true, but clearly, we're still meant to empathize with him. Just because he's done ill-advised things doesn't mean he's beyond saving or redemption. Even before anyone knew for sure who Red Cry was, I suspected that the person behind them was an abused child themselves, and expressed hope that if that was the case, then the show would still hold out the possibility of redemption to the character, without knowing anything about them or their situation. Now that I do know, that hope has only grown stronger.

 

Completely agree with you. And I have to applaud the director, producer, and writer for striking that kind of balance. Using CWK and JH as the center of moral compass and the reflection of the audience, they serve to remind the audience that as much as we despise the child abusers, taking murder into your own hand is ultimately wrong.

 

Just as how JH had questioned, "Where is Red Cry?" when he dealt with the dog butcher, many of us tempted to think like him, hoping the killer to kill the dog butcher and frustrated that the law could not touch the man. But yet the audience are reminded that kind of thinking was wrong when the dog butcher was murdered in such a brutal way.

 

Just as people despised Bit Na's mom for abusing her daughter and some wanted her to be punished for her crime, we are reminded the trama and pain that are left on the child by taking matters into our own hand. And just as people sympathize with LEH's ordeal, his conversation with CWK shows the distortion of his perception. 

 

In many ways, we are like CWK. We have violent thoughts against some people, yet we don't put it into actions. We are frustrated with the limits of the law, but we doing break it and justify that the laws are flawed, so we can break it and take matter into our own hand. And as JH's leader said, the general public would probably side with Red Cry's deed when it was revealed he was killing child abusers. And I think the drama did a wonderful job to evoke enough sympathy (that we hoped LEH would recover and redeem himself), yet comprehend we can't allow Red Cry to exist and that no one has the right to be the judges of someone's deed outside the boundary of the law. 

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11 hours ago, bedifferent said:

I think there is a misunderstanding.  I don’t believe that you think Eunho is a psychopath or deserves what he got.

 

In fact, my point is that I wish either (1) he survived to tell his story or (2 ) he’s not the sole person responsible for Red Cry because I believe healing is needed for him and it is one  of the drama’s msg.  With him not revealing that he was abused by Head Director, his killing may remain unsympathetic to others and even deemed him as a psychopath killing a beloved kind old man.  He has never told anyone about his sexual abuse or did he that I missed?  So we cannot end here with Eunho dead.  That is not what I want how the drama to end his story.  

 

Of course, I sympathize with his pain and circumstances as with many people.  What made it even more tragic is that CWK offered him a way out, a new employment, but he threw the contact paper away.  She pleaded with him twice to walk away as did Jiheon.  It came down to the choice of an individual.  However, he is broken, psychologically cornered and possibly irreversibly defeated, that he could not see the option as viable.  He lowered the gun temporarily yet couldn’t stop.  The drama can’t just end with Eunho being defeated this way.  It’s just too depressing and hopeless for all the children that he represents.  My hope is that he did not suffer in vain for another person’s vendetta.

 

Aaaaah, okay, you were talking about people in-universe thinking he's a psycho. That makes a lot more sense, glad we got that cleared up. :D

 

Well, I do think that even if he ends up dying at the lighthouse or in the hospital, the narrative won't leave his story where it is right here. Of course, I think it would be best for all parties involved if he was able to live and he received a hopeful ending in spite of everything, but have a little faith in the writer. She's brought us this far, and she clearly cares deeply about Eunho's storyline, or else she wouldn't have spent so much time showing us how he cares for the children at the center and showing us how he thinks and why.

 

He did end up telling Wookyung about what happened to him in that room with the big desk where he used to have to read poetry, after all. I mean, not in so many words, but Wookyung is not an idiot, she can put two and two together pretty easily (and by the look of horror on her face and the way she started to cry after he said "It's best to not remember" while in the Head Director's study, I think she understood his meaning quite well). She knows what happened to him, even if no one else does. She can tell his story to others, so that even if the writer doesn't let him live, his suffering won't have been in vain. I truly don't think the writer would do him that dirty.

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My take for eunho was that he felt his journey was done...as in he had saved children but at the same time he realised that there was a fallout in his methods and may have felt that there was no redemption for him.

Hence he would take out his abuser as his final act and end his personal hell....in the place where his path to hell began...

 

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On 12/27/2018 at 7:46 PM, chickfactor said:

You have solved the case, @loveseek630 !

 

You are the best detective! :D

 

 

@loveseek630  you were right!! You really are the best detective ever!!!  :lol:

 

Anyway, I think the show is pretty brilliant that the answer really was the most obvious one, but kept everyone doubting and guessing at just about everyone who ever showed up on the screen.

 

As far as whether Eun-Ho is just one of many "Red Cry's" remains to be seen. I don't know, I kind of feel like this part of the story's sort of been wrapped up. Eun-Ho had help setting up the internet stuff, with that doctor who murdered that mom first, then committed suicide, and I can believe that he carried out the other stuff on his own.

 

(I could be wrong. I am a BAD detective, really I am, I always guess wrong.)

 

Major kudos to the actor (Hak-Yeon!) for an amazing job. You *felt* how tortured he was by what has happened to him, and how warped he became by all that he has suffered. (In the last role I saw him in, in "Familiar Wife," he played a goofy, lighthearted character and he was very good at that, too!)

 

(This poor boy. I was in tears all throughout the whole episode. When Eun-Ho said, "Why would my mom abandon me in such a beautiful place?" OMG, ALL the tears. And my brain doesn't even want to process the abuse actually happened to him. Too much.)

 

I don't know what the next episodes will bring but I guess we will spend it unpacking just what is going on in Woo-Kyung's past. I can't wait to find out but I am also filled with dread because this show does not hold back in bringing the pain.

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It has taken me a while to finally sit down and gather my scattered thoughts, trying to make some sense of the mixed emotions I feel when at last, as the layers of mystery behind the elusive persona of Red Cry unfold one by one, each reveal a bitter affirmation of previous theories, there is no joy in the knowledge, merely sadness intermingled with horror for the horribly damaged child who could find no glimmer of hope to his own life; so flawed that he could see no recourse other than kill without remorse those he judged to be guilty; in so much pain which he has kept hidden from the world; who has been abandoned and betrayed by those who should have protected him; who finally allowed his eyes to reflect the dead soul inside when there was no more need of pretense. Heartbreaking, terrifying - brought to life by Hakyeon's beautifully nuanced delivery.


Standoff

The C-subs for the standoff at the lighthouse is a more literal translation of the original Korean, where the use of the word 지옥 "hell" is used to drive home the kind of unimaginable agony LEH has lived with:

"The moment I remembered that room, I was plunged into hell."

"I am doing this for you. It is better to die because I know what hell is like. I know its pain."

 

And CWK's harsh retort:

"Hell. Do you know what real hell is?

The innocent child that you are, who once trembled in fear, is threatening with murderous eyes to kill. That is hell."

 

The events leading to the standoff is an interesting one, and makes me wonder if LEH ever intended to take CWK hostage after all. Unless LEH knew in advance that the board of directors had requested her to convince the old director to relinquish the center, there was no way he would have anticipated her visit, which in turn makes his decision to kill her one done on impulse. That he would intentionally risk her walking in on him as he metes out judgment, particularly this one, seems unlikely. My impression is that his goal upon remembering the past has been leading up to the judgment of the old director, after which he has nothing to live for anymore. There is never any intent to evade capture after that - he told KJH as much when he said he wanted him to catch Red Cry ("Really... you must catch him"), and he was the one who delivered definitive proof of his guilt by leaving Director Song's shoes and the damning CCTV footage in the envelope with the words "Really..." on it. I think her unexpected visit resulted in her unwittingly becoming his next target - his final liberation of one he sees as a kindred spirit about to descend into the same hell, at the same time using her as bait to lure the police to his chosen place to die. And his description of KJH - unwavering, unhesitant - is indicative that he already counted on KJH not to hesitate to shoot him once he poses a threat. 

 

Parallels

The parallels that are being drawn between LEH and CWK are extremely intriguing, and if my guess is correct, the Red Cry arc is now brought to a close, and the tone is set for the final 3 hours. Time and again, particularly at the lighthouse, we are reminded by LEH:

- Some memories are not meant to be unlocked. Once unlocked, the floodgates to hell are open, and there is no way back. LEH experienced this with his memory of the desk in the room, and CWK will, with the girl in the green dress
- Children are unable to escape from abusive relationships because they are brainwashed to think they are loved. LEH had a twisted dependency on the old director... what is CWK's?

- CWK has the same look as the other abused children, which LEH could recognise too, being one himself

 

"Se Kyung"

Despite CWK's flashback of the girl in the green dress being called "Se Kyung", as of now, I stand by my original theory that she is the girl in the green dress. If the girl in the green dress really is younger CSK, it might explain her resentment towards her stepmother, but not the elaborate lengths taken to create memories for CWK, which no one else could corroborate. Wouldn't it make more sense to do so for the child who was abused, so that she need not relive the trauma?

 

As such, I think the woman we know to be CWK was originally the younger child CSK, who has since taken on the identity of her older sister. The latest flashback shows a happy relationship between the birth mother and both sisters, thus the resentment and abuse of the younger child must have occurred after that, with the arrival of the fateful green dress. Scenes leading up to the older girl's 7th birthday party imply that the gifting of the dress, the twirling older girl and the assaulted younger girl occurred at different times, which could indicate a time jump between the presence of the birth mother to the actual abuse that was seen.

 

On the birthday, the older girl was in a beige blouse and skirt before changing into the green dress:

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The older girl was also seen dancing in a separate scene, but in a beige and white blue dress:

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The younger girl was pushed by an older girl in a different dark blue dress, then viciously punished by an older woman:

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Something terrible undoubtedly happened after that, compelling the family (along with stepmother) to move far far away from their hometown to Seoul, upon which all ties to CWK's past were wiped out. The concerted effort to put actual physical distance on top of the destruction of photos and other items, and the total loss of contact between CWK and her maternal family since then, seems a glaring hint that perhaps CWK of today is not the same CWK before that time. Does it then mean the girl in the green dress is someone no one wishes to remember, or one whom no one wants her to remember? Are the real memories of the child meant to be hidden from CWK, or from the world? 


Assuming my theory about CWK's identity is correct, did the abuse we see come from the birth mother (who seemed warm and loving), or the stepmother (who by all outward appearances is harsh and undemonstrative)? If it was her birth mother, how was the stepmother roped into the elaborate cover-up, which she vehemently maintains to this day? If it was the stepmother, is it protectiveness, guilt or fear of exposure that ensured her continued silence? Was the older girl killed somehow in an altercation with the younger child, and the family covered it up by fleeing the hometown and having her sibling assume her identity? Who then is the CSK that we currently know? Is she a changeling who was sent to live with the maternal family, making it two girls who are living another person's life? Is this the reason the vision of the younger girl is resurfacing now, forcing present day CWK to remember what everyone conspired to block out?

 

If indeed some unmentionable wrong was done to CWK in her past, linked in particular to the stepmother whom she desperately tries to please and be the best for, will she then mirror LEH in her decisions? Will the terrible fury we know she is capable of, finally overcome her, seeing her descend into the hell LEH is all too familiar with? Questions... questions... neverending questions. 

 

Anyway... my apologies for incoherent ramblings - it's been an extremely long week with no end in sight yet and my poor brain is tied up in knots trying to make sense out of it all :blink: Is it Wednesday already? Can't bear to think that this mesmerising drama will finally end next week. I am so not ready to leave this universe...

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