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[Drama 2018-2019] Children of Nobody/Red Moon, Blue Sun 붉은달 푸른해

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On 12/27/2018 at 7:46 PM, chickfactor said:

You have solved the case, @loveseek630 !

 

You are the best detective! :D

 

 

@loveseek630  you were right!! You really are the best detective ever!!!  :lol:

 

Anyway, I think the show is pretty brilliant that the answer really was the most obvious one, but kept everyone doubting and guessing at just about everyone who ever showed up on the screen.

 

As far as whether Eun-Ho is just one of many "Red Cry's" remains to be seen. I don't know, I kind of feel like this part of the story's sort of been wrapped up. Eun-Ho had help setting up the internet stuff, with that doctor who murdered that mom first, then committed suicide, and I can believe that he carried out the other stuff on his own.

 

(I could be wrong. I am a BAD detective, really I am, I always guess wrong.)

 

Major kudos to the actor (Hak-Yeon!) for an amazing job. You *felt* how tortured he was by what has happened to him, and how warped he became by all that he has suffered. (In the last role I saw him in, in "Familiar Wife," he played a goofy, lighthearted character and he was very good at that, too!)

 

(This poor boy. I was in tears all throughout the whole episode. When Eun-Ho said, "Why would my mom abandon me in such a beautiful place?" OMG, ALL the tears. And my brain doesn't even want to process the abuse actually happened to him. Too much.)

 

I don't know what the next episodes will bring but I guess we will spend it unpacking just what is going on in Woo-Kyung's past. I can't wait to find out but I am also filled with dread because this show does not hold back in bringing the pain.

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It has taken me a while to finally sit down and gather my scattered thoughts, trying to make some sense of the mixed emotions I feel when at last, as the layers of mystery behind the elusive persona of Red Cry unfold one by one, each reveal a bitter affirmation of previous theories, there is no joy in the knowledge, merely sadness intermingled with horror for the horribly damaged child who could find no glimmer of hope to his own life; so flawed that he could see no recourse other than kill without remorse those he judged to be guilty; in so much pain which he has kept hidden from the world; who has been abandoned and betrayed by those who should have protected him; who finally allowed his eyes to reflect the dead soul inside when there was no more need of pretense. Heartbreaking, terrifying - brought to life by Hakyeon's beautifully nuanced delivery.


Standoff

The C-subs for the standoff at the lighthouse is a more literal translation of the original Korean, where the use of the word 지옥 "hell" is used to drive home the kind of unimaginable agony LEH has lived with:

"The moment I remembered that room, I was plunged into hell."

"I am doing this for you. It is better to die because I know what hell is like. I know its pain."

 

And CWK's harsh retort:

"Hell. Do you know what real hell is?

The innocent child that you are, who once trembled in fear, is threatening with murderous eyes to kill. That is hell."

 

The events leading to the standoff is an interesting one, and makes me wonder if LEH ever intended to take CWK hostage after all. Unless LEH knew in advance that the board of directors had requested her to convince the old director to relinquish the center, there was no way he would have anticipated her visit, which in turn makes his decision to kill her one done on impulse. That he would intentionally risk her walking in on him as he metes out judgment, particularly this one, seems unlikely. My impression is that his goal upon remembering the past has been leading up to the judgment of the old director, after which he has nothing to live for anymore. There is never any intent to evade capture after that - he told KJH as much when he said he wanted him to catch Red Cry ("Really... you must catch him"), and he was the one who delivered definitive proof of his guilt by leaving Director Song's shoes and the damning CCTV footage in the envelope with the words "Really..." on it. I think her unexpected visit resulted in her unwittingly becoming his next target - his final liberation of one he sees as a kindred spirit about to descend into the same hell, at the same time using her as bait to lure the police to his chosen place to die. And his description of KJH - unwavering, unhesitant - is indicative that he already counted on KJH not to hesitate to shoot him once he poses a threat. 

 

Parallels

The parallels that are being drawn between LEH and CWK are extremely intriguing, and if my guess is correct, the Red Cry arc is now brought to a close, and the tone is set for the final 3 hours. Time and again, particularly at the lighthouse, we are reminded by LEH:

- Some memories are not meant to be unlocked. Once unlocked, the floodgates to hell are open, and there is no way back. LEH experienced this with his memory of the desk in the room, and CWK will, with the girl in the green dress
- Children are unable to escape from abusive relationships because they are brainwashed to think they are loved. LEH had a twisted dependency on the old director... what is CWK's?

- CWK has the same look as the other abused children, which LEH could recognise too, being one himself

 

"Se Kyung"

Despite CWK's flashback of the girl in the green dress being called "Se Kyung", as of now, I stand by my original theory that she is the girl in the green dress. If the girl in the green dress really is younger CSK, it might explain her resentment towards her stepmother, but not the elaborate lengths taken to create memories for CWK, which no one else could corroborate. Wouldn't it make more sense to do so for the child who was abused, so that she need not relive the trauma?

 

As such, I think the woman we know to be CWK was originally the younger child CSK, who has since taken on the identity of her older sister. The latest flashback shows a happy relationship between the birth mother and both sisters, thus the resentment and abuse of the younger child must have occurred after that, with the arrival of the fateful green dress. Scenes leading up to the older girl's 7th birthday party imply that the gifting of the dress, the twirling older girl and the assaulted younger girl occurred at different times, which could indicate a time jump between the presence of the birth mother to the actual abuse that was seen.

 

On the birthday, the older girl was in a beige blouse and skirt before changing into the green dress:

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The older girl was also seen dancing in a separate scene, but in a beige and white blue dress:

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The younger girl was pushed by an older girl in a different dark blue dress, then viciously punished by an older woman:

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Something terrible undoubtedly happened after that, compelling the family (along with stepmother) to move far far away from their hometown to Seoul, upon which all ties to CWK's past were wiped out. The concerted effort to put actual physical distance on top of the destruction of photos and other items, and the total loss of contact between CWK and her maternal family since then, seems a glaring hint that perhaps CWK of today is not the same CWK before that time. Does it then mean the girl in the green dress is someone no one wishes to remember, or one whom no one wants her to remember? Are the real memories of the child meant to be hidden from CWK, or from the world? 


Assuming my theory about CWK's identity is correct, did the abuse we see come from the birth mother (who seemed warm and loving), or the stepmother (who by all outward appearances is harsh and undemonstrative)? If it was her birth mother, how was the stepmother roped into the elaborate cover-up, which she vehemently maintains to this day? If it was the stepmother, is it protectiveness, guilt or fear of exposure that ensured her continued silence? Was the older girl killed somehow in an altercation with the younger child, and the family covered it up by fleeing the hometown and having her sibling assume her identity? Who then is the CSK that we currently know? Is she a changeling who was sent to live with the maternal family, making it two girls who are living another person's life? Is this the reason the vision of the younger girl is resurfacing now, forcing present day CWK to remember what everyone conspired to block out?

 

If indeed some unmentionable wrong was done to CWK in her past, linked in particular to the stepmother whom she desperately tries to please and be the best for, will she then mirror LEH in her decisions? Will the terrible fury we know she is capable of, finally overcome her, seeing her descend into the hell LEH is all too familiar with? Questions... questions... neverending questions. 

 

Anyway... my apologies for incoherent ramblings - it's been an extremely long week with no end in sight yet and my poor brain is tied up in knots trying to make sense out of it all :blink: Is it Wednesday already? Can't bear to think that this mesmerising drama will finally end next week. I am so not ready to leave this universe...

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2 hours ago, liddi said:

Something terrible undoubtedly happened after that, compelling the family (along with stepmother) to move far far away from their hometown to Seoul, upon which all ties to CWK's past were wiped out. The concerted effort to put actual physical distance on top of the destruction of photos and other items, and the total loss of contact between CWK and her maternal family since then, seems a glaring hint that perhaps CWK of today is not the same CWK before that time. Does it then mean the girl in the green dress is someone no one wishes to remember, or one whom no one wants her to remember? Are the real memories of the child meant to be hidden from CWK, or from the world? 

 

Yeah, something terrible happened and I will not try to guess anymore.

One girl is missing from these two pictures. The older sister from the first picture is the younger one in the second photo?

It looks like the girl with the father looks younger than the older girl with the mother.

 

tumblr_pjzfy2ZQKl1sdd1ivo2_r1_540.png

tumblr_pk3lbf7OQd1sdd1ivo1_1280.png

 

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1 hour ago, larus said:

Yeah, something terrible happened and I will not try to guess anymore.

One girl is missing from these two pictures. The older sister from the first picture is the younger one in the second photo?

It looks like the girl with the father looks younger than the older girl with the mother.

 

@larus It depends on the theory, which I can venture to provide explanations for both scenarios.

 

Girl in the green dress is current CWK

I guess one explanation would be time elapsed, upon which the girl in the green dress has grown.

1st pic with birth mother: the real CWK (older girl) and CSK (girl in the green dress)

2nd pic with stepmother: current CWK (girl in the green dress after a few years) and current CSK (changeling?)

 

The similarity between the older girl in both photos could be explained as due to similar familial features since they were blood sisters.

 

Girl in the green dress is CSK

Based purely on these two photos:

2nd pic could mean either the real CSK is dead, and the younger girl here is the current CSK brought in to take her place

or

The younger child is the girl in the green dress after a few years has passed.

 

Long and short of the story is... I don't really know. Writer-nim, please put us out of our misery soon! :blink:

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@liddi I was reading your above post very carefully and also thinking seriously, until I reach the end... :lol: Let me just echo your words, I don't really know too!!

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@ktcjdrama With such a range of possibilities and a wealth of suspicious characters roaming around, it is no wonder the mind is tangled in knots! An absolute testament to the amazing script for making us think so hard :D Love this drama!

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1 hour ago, liddi said:

 

Long and short of the story is... I don't really know. Writer-nim, please put us out of our misery soon!

Yes. It is hard to tell. :lol:

 

What we know is that the picture of Se Kyung`s bag, the picture of the mother with two girls, was the picture that  Heo Jin-Ok did not want Woo Kyung to see. Why was that? If Woo Kyung had seen that picture, she would have remembered something from her past or it was because of the girl in green dress?  Maybe both.

Woo Kyung asked herself where was Se Kyung when she saw the old picture (the girls with the mother), meaning that she recognized herself as the older girl. Or she asumed that she was the older girl. We know that Woo kyung (the present Woo Kyung) remembers spending lots of time with the albums, beeing talked about her childhood, about her friends but she did not have old pictures with her mother.

If there was a change of identity it is mindblowing. What is worst is that the abuse is "clouding" Woo Kyung`s family. I want to know what happened more than who is Red Cry. :)

 

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3 hours ago, larus said:

Woo Kyung asked herself where was Se Kyung when she saw the old picture (the girls with the mother), meaning that she recognized herself as the older girl. Or she asumed that she was the older girl. We know that Woo kyung (the present Woo Kyung) remembers spending lots of time with the albums, beeing talked about her childhood, about her friends but she did not have old pictures with her mother.

I actually wondered why she didn't question or even think of that girl as SK herself... I mean, my first reaction seeing a picture of my mother, myself, and another girl so close and friendly, I would probably immediately think of that girl as my sister. Unless of course WK knows for sure what SK looked like when she was a child? If that girl isn't SK, why would SK keep such a photo? Out of that bunch of photos, is that the only one with Girl in Green Dress? 

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@larus I think it safe to say the children in the 2nd photo which is featured on stepmother's mantlepiece, constitutes the younger selves of the women we know as CWK and CSK today. If there is any identity swap to begin with, I doubt any photo proving this family secret would have been on display. As such, the secret most likely lies with the girl in the green dress, or to a lesser extent, the birth mother.

And yes, the mystery of CWK's past, while always lurking in the background amid the thrilling Red Cry arc, is the most intriguing one yet.

 

2 hours ago, ktcjdrama said:

I actually wondered why she didn't question or even think of that girl as SK herself... I mean, my first reaction seeing a picture of my mother, myself, and another girl so close and friendly, I would probably immediately think of that girl as my sister. Unless of course WK knows for sure what SK looks like when she was a child? If that girl isn't SK, why would SK keep such a photo? Out of that bunch of photos, is that the only one with Girl in Green Dress? 

 

@ktcjdrama Yes, exactly. In other words, the girl in the green dress does not resemble the CSK she knows from the youth she does remember, which should then be post-Seoul. 

As for why CSK held on to the photo, I wonder if she realised that her own identity was a fraud when she discovered the photo, since that child was most certainly not her. Could that have triggered the accident that left her comatose for so long?

 

It occurred to me that Kim Sun Ah, in her acceptance speech for Top Excellence Actress at the MBC Drama Awards, mentioned that she would like to film another season of Children of Nobody while they were still alive. Although this tells me that most of the characters probably survive (including CWK), there is no certainty whether we will get closure, or be left with a cliffhanger ending. Either way, I trust scriptwriter DHJ to bring us to a satisfactory conclusion, whatever it may be.

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I have to say, it has been a very long time since I've read discussions that is very engrossed in the story, that there is almost no gushings over the actors that play the characters. This is intriguing. Keep it going, people.

 

I've just started watching this series (now entering the divorce episode). Still many hours before I can catch up to the discussion!

 

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@dzareth Welcome! Glad that you are watching this drama and hopefully you'll catch up in time to join us going into the finale. It's been an incredible journey thus far and I am hopeful that it will remain so all the way to the end.

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Preview for Ep27-28 is out!

So it's confirmed that LEH perished.

And from the looks of it, the Red Cry arc is not over yet, since LEH was elsewhere with Sora and her mother, around the time Red Cry picked up the package. Was he the accomplice after all... and YTJ is back under suspicion? Honestly, do I need to glue the rug to the ground, to prevent it from being pulled from under my feet yet again??

 

 

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Thanks for the much awaited preview...

 

37 minutes ago, liddi said:

Honestly, do I need to glue the rug to the ground, to prevent it from being pulled from under my feet yet again??

Sending you some glue... I chose the All Weather glue, should be pretty strong and durable :P

71-ora3JhBL._SL1280_.jpg

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2 hours ago, liddi said:

It occurred to me that Kim Sun Ah, in her acceptance speech for Top Excellence Actress at the MBC Drama Awards, mentioned that she would like to film another season of Children of Nobody while they were still alive. Although this tells me that most of the characters probably survive (including CWK), there is no certainty whether we will get closure, or be left with a cliffhanger ending. Either way, I trust scriptwriter DHJ to bring us to a satisfactory conclusion, whatever it may be.

 

I will want a second season with ONE condition: this story must have an ending.  I hate when they don`t answer questions. I watched two seasons of OCN Special Affairs Team TEN and still don`t know who was the culpirt and I`m still waitting till today the third season. The story has to end in this season. If there is another season, the writer can create another good mystery.

 

57 minutes ago, liddi said:

Was he the accomplice after all... and YTJ is back under suspicion?

Yes.... I like the way the story unfolds if it is true. It is not that I want to be right, but I like when my believes/ my instincts are maching with the story on screen. I wasn`t convinced that Eun ho was Red Cry. If he is, I want this show to convince me without doubt that he is. So far, I need more evidence. Let see how things goes. I can`t wait. 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, larus said:

I wasn`t convinced that Eun ho was Red Cry. If he is, I want this show to convince me without doubt that he is. So far, I need more evidence.

 

That is my view as well.  Something just doesn't ring true with the notion that EH is Red Cry.  I genuinely do not believe that EH is capable of being as cruel as Red Cry was in the killing of the Dog Butcher--he is too sensitive to the pain of others to be able to cause such pain, no matter how angry he might be.  

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@liddi Thanks for the preview! I knew it... Red Cry case is not solved. What I really like is that JH was not satisfied with this answer and wants to make it right for LEH. 

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38 minutes ago, bebebisous33 said:

What I really like is that JH was not satisfied with this answer and wants to make it right for LEH. 

 

Yes!  I am really glad about that, too.  JH is the sort of person who needs to make things right as best he can (like when he didn't want to close the cases at first even though his boss ordered him to do so).

 

I've said before that I thought that LEH is either covering for someone or protecting someone.  I still believe that.  If he is protecting someone, it will either be because he feels them to be weak (like maybe Bit Na since she is still essentially a kid--I am still very suspicious of her) or he believes them to be doing something to bring about justice.

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On 1/5/2019 at 6:32 AM, bedifferent said:

@cyan5tarlight I think there is a misunderstanding.  I don’t believe that you think Eunho is a psychopath or deserves what he got.

 

In fact, my point is that I wish either (1) he survived to tell his story or (2 ) he’s not the sole person responsible for Red Cry because I believe healing is needed for him and it is one  of the drama’s msg.  With him not revealing that he was abused by Head Director, his killing may remain unsympathetic to others and even deemed him as a psychopath killing a beloved kind old man.  He has never told anyone about his sexual abuse or did he that I missed?  So we cannot end here with Eunho dead.  That is not what I want how the drama to end his story.  

 

Of course, I sympathize with his pain and circumstances as with many people.  What made it even more tragic is that CWK offered him a way out, a new employment, but he threw the contact paper away.  She pleaded with him twice to walk away as did Jiheon.  It came down to the choice of an individual.  However, he is broken, psychologically cornered and possibly irreversibly defeated, that he could not see the option as viable.  He lowered the gun temporarily yet couldn’t stop.  The drama can’t just end with Eunho being defeated this way.  It’s just too depressing and hopeless for all the children that he represents.  My hope is that he did not suffer in vain for another person’s vendetta.

I agree. In a way, it would just seem to be all in vain. it makes sense why eunho would do this but the end result being psychopathy because of abuse and him manipulating and really affecting these people's lives is not a good way to end things. for me, it made me feel so emotionally empty and upset. it's possible that this is true but another thing is that no one helped him and he couldn't escape but murder certainly isn't the way to solve these kids problems. in fact, it makes it worse. he was acting out of his own anger and self interest but he did make a choice. and i think we need to know more and understand and also see some contrition. i don't think he will ever be redeemed nor does he deserve to because this became a serial case with some really sick outcomes. 

 

that being said i think someone pointed it out here best: he did what he thought he had to do, he knew it had major major consequences, and thought with his last act he would descend to "hell" like the rest of them. his tormenters are gone and this was what he was meant to do during his last few minutes of life. which is FINE. of course he's not on the same scale as the abusers but i won't ever abide by something like this. especially because he got out and had a choice and a chance to live when real live women are being put in jail for killing their abusers so they can live but not as a long vendetta. 

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On 1/5/2019 at 9:00 AM, Desdemona Diamandis said:

"your-father-killed-my-father-so-now-I-kill-your-father shtick..."

 

My example was different. You misunderstood me or twisted my words purposely. (?)

I meant special cases. Again: How can be the life of the PERVERT, ABUSIVE MURDERER equal to the life of the abused and murdered child? It is just nonsense. Any sane person who has normal sense of justice would think and say the same or similar as me.

 

Every psychopathic murderous filth should be removed from society forever or if when it is necessary it should be destroyed.

In the ancient cultures when humanity was UNCORRUPTED the old legal systems were much better in many ways. People were more just and righteous, their sense of justice were better.

Today humanity became really devolved and decayed unfortunately. Most of our original spiritual, ethical, and other kinds of knowledge were destroyed or corrupted and also replaced by stupid, useless and often dangerous and harmful dogmas and false ideologies which are all from the enemies of humanity...

Because of these stupid and false ideologies and also because of the fake belief systems (so called "religions" which are enemy mind-programs) most of humanity became so domesticated and mind controlled that it resulted such people like you, for example. Who even wants to be controlled by a mere forum. :'D Sorry but this is so funny.

 

And no, there were no proper words instead of bllsh*t. Because this word expressed the best I wanted to refer. And this word was not used on a person.

And yes, of course censoring "harsh" words has to do with repression of free speech too.

Often disgusting and filthy things are being expressed by harsh or vulgar words. It is normal. Censoring and repressing harsh words are meant to repress one's anger and hatred which is not normal and unhealthy. These are just natural human feelings like love.

What is hateful it should be hated, what is disrespectful it should be disrespected, what is really sick, disgusting and filthy it could be represented with such words. Freely.

 

You mentioned there are no perfect man-made systems. Actually there were perfect man-made system on Earth, but that was in the Golden Age and humanity then was not the mind-controlled slaves of alien parasitic filths...

I could go on, speak more and expose more but I know there are such sane and rational people who already realized what and who I was talking about here...

 

As for the drama, I always hope there will be justice in these dramas at least but there is not too much justice in them, usually. Eun Ho should not have died I think, (if he died) if not I hope he will survive it. He obviously needs serious help and of course he should get some punishment too but he should receive reduced charges and lesser sentence due to his extenuating circumstances. 

I qouted but it seems it didn't show. My former comment is for xxPeepsxx user.

this is untrue and very ahistorical, actually. it doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to make a better earth and that we can't be optimistic but if you look up every civil rights movement, labor movement, movements to help children, etc it's practically pre historic. there is no time in history where humanity was ever perfect because we are humans.

 

in fact, the very systems we have in place were predicated on slavery, money, and exploitation. i'm kind of confused by your whole comment...it's ahistoric and it's anachronistic. the whole point of media and shows and writing is to show that there are many sides to a story. everyone will have differing opinions. to me, what he did does nothing in the form of justice. and that's an opinion not a fact which is clear in the way people have discussed this. not only that, but to your point about perfect systems, there will always be a power imbalance between a child and an older person; a parent and their child--that is natural. of course people have been taking advantage of it from the dawn of time. and justice now is not what justice was back then (and justice now and back then have many flaws based in racism, misogyny, lgbtq+ hate intentionally which also existed back then

 

your comment seems almost angry in a way for no reason because we are simply stating facts (about history) and opinions (about how we feel about this story.) justice and sanity do not go hand in hand. also i love cursing and i do it a lot and it's silly but that's the forums rule. it's not something we can change cos a lot of ppl i guess dont like it....i'm not sure why this makes you so angry....

 

in what i've researched and learned as someone who is moving towards abolition (i.e. no prisons, which you can research yourself) is that we need community outreach and something called "transformative/restorative" justice but that is based on the fact that crimes can be judged by a community (and not something aided by the state which thrives off of people being put away and prison industrial complex which exists around the world) and the person has shown that they can change. this is rather complicated and a lot of people do not like this idea because it's societally expected that the law (which is unjust in itself) will take care of it. THAT BEING SAID, because the law and prisons and the police do exist--no matter how deeply flawed--he will be judged by them. the problem with RC/EH is that he has not shown remorse and truly deeply believes what he did is right when it is not. it has further harmed almost all individuals involved. the circumstances in which he did it under are painful but these acts are all too common and a lot of us have had to live and breathe with our abusers as they either didn't change or did make amends but we aren't murdering people to relieve our demons and stress. luring people into a false sense of security and judging them based on what we think is best produces MAJOR consequences and that is shown by how almost all of these cases were not cut-and-dry and were deliberately complex.

 

perhaps it would be different if someone was murdering these people who literally had nothing left in their lives and no ties holding them back. but unfortunately they have children who will be affected by their incredibly gruesome murders. ha na's pain will not go away because her mother and father were murdered. she will never get a chance to reckon with that and perhaps their lives (and her mom definitely deserved to live which was NOT EUNHO'S CHOICE and also absolutely no sympathy for what mothers have to endure and almost every circumstance was an abused partner but anyways) and get an apology. even with him gone she will be haunted. not one of those cases were explicit in any way about the guilty parties and he put the disabled woman with her child at risk with the murder of her husband for being a suspect, being in abject poverty because she couldnt acquire the money, and having this haunt the mother and daughter. it's clear he didn't think of the big pictures which is a societal issue that has very personal consequences. that is what i cannot forgive.

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