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cyan5tarlight

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Everything posted by cyan5tarlight

  1. @liddiAh, okay, thank you for clearing that up! What I basically heard was "We can't hold Taejoo responsible for screwing up his brother even more than he already was because he was screwed up himself" and hence I was like "I respectfully! disagree!!" But if you were merely trying to explain his actions instead of excuse them, then we have no problems, s'all good. ^^d Thanks for the timeline analysis! I admit that the timeline for the series has kind of confused me throughout, mostly because everyone always seems REALLY COLD even when it seems to be supposed to take place over the course of about a year. But I chalk that up to a fall-winter shooting schedule and not wanting your poor actors to develop frostbite. As for the other timeline muddles, it's a bit unfortunate that the some of the dates were fudged that badly. You'd think someone from production would have caught at least some of those. :/ But ah well, it's not super distracting, and doesn't detract from the story itself, so I'll let it slide. BTW, does anyone happen to have any other drama recommendations that someone who really enjoyed Children of Nobody might like? I'm close to being done with Legend of the Blue Sea, and I'd like some other dramas to add to my queue. For a bit more context, I prefer character-based dramas, and any genre is fine with me, though I'm not a huge fan of romance. I don't mind it when it's done well, but even then, I do prefer there be other interesting aspects to the story than just the main couple's relationship. My favorite drama so far that I've watched has been Goblin, because I loved the modern fantasy aspects of it and the characters were all so interesting and likable and had great chemistry with each other. I also enjoyed Pinocchio and Healer quite a lot. I've heard of this show called "Duel" that sounded interesting, that I was thinking about starting, but any other recommendations would be greatly appreciated!
  2. @liddi You raise some interesting points. What Eunho did was wrong, no doubt, no debating it. But at the same time, given his upbringing and the awfulness he had to live with nearly every day of his entire life, especially when faced with the possibility of the same thing happening to the innocent children he adored so much... well, honestly, how much can anyone really hate him for doing it when you get right down to it? On the other hand, I suppose my hangup with Taejoo - tragic backstory notwithstanding - stems from the fact that he is, ostensibly, a trained professional. One who has (one would think) studied cases similar to his brother's and Wookyung's and Hana's in preparation for his medical practice, who should know how to treat them without resorting to first and second degree murder. Basically, my opinion of him boils down to "he, at least, should have known better." What if someone came to a doctor bleeding out everywhere from a sucking chest wound, and the doctor just slapped a band-aid on it and sent them on their merry way, resulting in that person's death? Would I not be allowed to be indignant about such blatant malpractice, no matter how good the intentions of the person performing said malpractice might have been? So what about a trained psychiatrist deciding that the best treatment for a suffering individual who came to him in good faith seeking peace and healing was to have them go commit multiple cases of homicide? I mean, it's definitely not a crime to be traumatized or to have baggage, and there's no shame in not being able to help someone get better, even if you do all you know how to, but surely Taejoo would have known what kind of cases he'd possibly be handling when he opened his practice. If he couldn't handle it, then, idk, maybe he should have thought about going into a different profession. Again, I would never hold it against anyone for having trauma in their lives or skeletons in their closets, but I find it completely irresponsible for someone who is obviously this mentally unstable and damaged to place themselves in a position where they could cause untold damage to others because they overestimated their abilities due to their own hubris. I know I would be an absolutely awful surgeon because I can't stand the sight of guts and viscera, so going into that field of medicine makes no sense for me, and I'd probably do more harm than good there. If, despite all that, I became a surgeon, and then killed someone on the operating table because I wasn't cut out for the job and was distracted with, say, family troubles to boot, then their death would still be my fault regardless of how noble my intentions may have been or how jacked up the issues I was facing in my personal life was. When someone puts their life and well-being, be it physical or mental, in your hands, trusting you to help them because you are the expert and advertise yourself as such, then you should be held responsible if something you did or failed to do caused them distress or harm even inadvertently. It's just common sense and basic business practice. Plus, speaking as someone who's personally suffered from years of debilitating and agonizing mental illness, seeing a trained, professional therapist fail multiple patients this horribly just makes me livid on a deep, fundamental level. And I admit, this could just be a personal hot button of mine, and not everyone feels the same way about it. But for me, seeing someone who has actively placed himself in a position of medical authority not only abusing the trust of his patients (he actively invaded Siwan and Hana's minds without their consent for God's sake! Does no one else see a problem with this??), but in some cases making their lives actively worse rubs me in all the wrong ways. I do concede that after I wrote my last post and left for work, it did occur to me that the reasoning behind Taejoo not physically removing Eunho from his abusive environment could be because Eunho simply could not bring himself to leave, no matter what Taejoo tried. I just wish that the series would have told or shown this to us more explicitly if that was the case. Some sort of confirmation that the two talked or spent time with each other beyond their vigilante mission, that they actually had some kind of brotherly relationship that went beyond mere sentimental familial obligation, that Taejoo truly didn't leave Eunho alone in his misery and pain in that horrible environment and just expect him to take care of it himself after rejecting all of Taejoo's offers to leave. Even an extra line or two of dialogue could have helped. As it stands, just judging from Eunho's outburst to Wookyung at the police station it sounded like Taejoo's advice essentially boiled down to "You're blind and brainwashed, but you'll see I'm right about your 'family' eventually, just you wait. And when that happens, don't say I didn't tell you so." At least, that's how it came across to me. I agree that it was very brave of the writer to make things such a grey area when it came to Red Cry. I very much appreciate such nuanced writing as well, you don't see that much from fiction nowadays. ^^ All this being said, though, feel free to have whatever viewpoints you like on Taejoo's character. Due to my personal experiences and beliefs regarding expectations for people who voluntarily place themselves in positions of authority that others are expected to defer to, I will always find a character like Taejoo far less sympathetic than someone like Eunho. However, this isn't to say that you can't have a completely different opinion than the one I hold due to your interpretation of the the character, and that's perfectly fine. Thanks for the thought-provoking discussion!
  3. @liddi @bedifferent Thank you both for your thoughts as well. Well said! I agree. And you both are definitely correct in saying that in Eunho was working with Taejoo, I didn't mean to imply that I'm trying to undermine his personal agency in what he ended up doing with his life. He did ultimately always have a choice. It's not like Taejoo put a gun to his head and said "Yes, you WILL go out and kill these people, or else" or anything like that. It's just that, as bedifferent said, And that's exactly why I have far more of a problem with Taejoo than I do with Eunho. When faced with his brother's trauma, Taejoo was fully capable of saying "Nah man, we're getting you therapy, and we're going to tank that stupid center once and for all, and then you're going to come live with me and have the happy, fulfilling life you should have had a long time ago." But he didn't. Eunho was essentially a broken, traumatized child living in a grown man's body. He was poor, uneducated, socially awkward, knew nothing but pain and abuse and could comprehend no other way to escape from it except for death. Taejoo, on the other hand, was a fully-functional adult with the best education money could buy, charming, suave, and insightful, who had grown up with a loving home and a loving family. If anyone could have set Eunho straight and shown him that there was indeed a better way to live, it would have been Taejoo. Not saying it wouldn't have been difficult, because the road to healing never is, but I firmly do believe that if Taejoo had kept at it, kept showing Eunho how awful the Songs were, how he didn't need to be under their thrall, this isn't how healthy people live, he would have gotten through to him eventually. But he didn't. It's like he gave up and just left Eunho to sort out his own problems with the Songs, like "Well, if it gets bad enough, I'm sure he'll leave eventually. This is something he's Got To Do Himself." Nevermind the fact that Siwan certainly didn't ask him to go and murder his own dad, and he was more than willing to go knock off Stepmom for Wookyung. Eunho doesn't even get that much? Really? (Not that I'm advocating for murder, I just find the whole situation darkly ironic and more than a little hypocritical.) And I'm just not convinced, rage notwithstanding, that Eunho would have necessarily become a killer if Taejoo hadn't been there egging him on and assuring him repeatedly that what he was doing was right and just. In addition to all that, even though they were technically partners in this endeavor, it's hard for me to not see a colossal power imbalance between the two brothers, not only with the vast age difference between them and the emphasis Korea places on age hierarchies (i.e. respect your elders above all else, do everything your elders say even if you disagree, and in turn, your elders will take care of you and not steer you wrong), but also their socioeconomic status, their level of education, and the way one was so much better at reading, understanding, and manipulating people than the other. Even if Taejoo really believed he was helping and doing the right thing by encouraging his brother down this path, and even if Eunho went with him willingly, I still can't see their relationship as anything but very unbalanced and exploitative. Even if Taejoo didn't necessarily intend it to be that way, it's definitely how it comes across. IDK, that's just how I see it, though. One of the great things about this show is that it leaves so much up to the audience's interpretation and leaves us all to make our own judgement about everything, and that's what makes analyzing everything so fun. ^^
  4. Which was on screen for all of 4 seconds, that you would have to pause, go back, and enhance (plus need to speak pretty fluent English if you're in the target Korean audience) if you ever wanted to know anything at all about the guy. For the main antagonist of the show, I would have expected we'd get a bit more information that that, especially given that it's coming from a very biased source, aka his adoptive father. Again, I chalk that up to the pacing near the end being rather rushed and the series not being able to spend as much time on character motivations as it wanted to, and it's not a huge deal, but it does bug me a bit Great analysis, @liddi! I really liked your thoughts on YTJ and his reasoning for becoming Red Cry. I guess what still bothers me about him, personally, is while there is this common thread of himself, Wookyung, and Siwan all thinking "I'm glad it wasn't me" when confronted with their younger sibling's abuse, there's one thing that he doesn't have in common with them. While they themselves were not the predominant targets of abuse in their households, Siwan and Wookyung still had to live and grow up in that toxic environment and contend with loads of emotional and psychological abuse, even if physical abuse wasn't usually part of the equation. Yes, there's still that guilt and sorrow that comes from just being glad that it wasn't you being hurt, but I think that was also fueled by the fact that they both knew every hour of every day it could have very easily be them at any time if their younger sibling didn't exist to take the brunt of the punishment. YTJ, however, did not have that problem. He was adopted very quickly from the orphanage, and by all accounts, the rest of his childhood was as happy and stable as his adoptive parents could make it, even if his mother did end up abandoning him . He was thousands of miles removed from his brother's abuse while it was happening. Even when he got back to Korea, it's not as if he was or would ever be in any danger from the Head Director. And by the way he was so shocked and devastated from the news of what had happened to Eunho, it's not as if he was expecting that's what would have been the cause of his brother's nightmares. I completely accept and understand his rage and grief for his brother, it's what anyone would feel if they were in his position, I'm sure. I guess I'm just still not clear where he makes the transition from simple grief and rage to deciding to become a serial killer mastermind if he didn't already have some psychotic tendencies beforehand. He even said outright that he was the one who planned and orchestrated everything, and Eunho was merely the one to carry those plans out. (Which makes me even more sorry for Eunho, tbh. If his smart, talented, respected hyung, someone so much older and more educated and better with people than him, was egging him on and encouraging him to do this, saying that this was for the good of the children he loved so much, then no wonder he went along with it without much fuss. Surely he could trust his hyung, right? His hyung wouldn't steer him wrong. Right...?) In light of all that, YTJ's stated motivations would almost be more understandable if he had stayed in Korea and grown up alongside his little brother, IMHO. Eunho would still have been the one to attract all of the Head Director's "attention," but YTJ would have experienced some that environment with him, known something of what his brother was going through but also been glad it wasn't him to experience it, just like Wookyung and Siwan did with their siblings. Unlike those two, though, he eventually took action and lashed out at an unfeeling and uncaring world, and did the only thing he could think of to avenge himself and his suffering younger brother as well as "save" other kids which were going through the same things they did when they were children. To me, that would make him much more understandable and sympathetic. As it stands, the explanation we have now isn't a bad one, it just seems more of an excuse for a deeply disturbed guy who had no business being a psychiatrist in the first place to let loose his psychotic and controlling tendencies while convincing himself that he was also "helping" people than it does a valid Freudian Excuse. But that's just my two cents.
  5. I do actually agree with the fact that we probably did need a bit more backstory on YTJ. I mean, what we have is enough to make it not completely out of left field, and the story still works well enough, but yeah, just what was his deal? Wookyung even mentioned that while a lot of people would mentally assent to the idea that someone deserves death, when a gun is placed in their hands, they wouldn't be able to pull the trigger. So what made YTJ different? Or was it because he WASN'T the one actually doing the killing that he was able to keep his convictions for so long? It's definitely messed up that he used and manipulated other people - including his own abused, traumatized brother - into doing his dirty work for him by utilizing his knowledge of the human psyche, and only resorted to killing when he had no more minions left. No matter how good his initial intentions might have been, he seems like a pretty awful person when you get right down to it, and I have little sympathy for him. Maybe I'd feel differently if we had a little more to go on, but just judging from what little the series showed us, that's my impression of him. I didn't get the impression that Wookyung wanted a relationship with her stepmother at all after finding out what had happened. As for allowing Eunseo and her stepsister to still have a relationship with her, I think it had more to do with what Sekyung #2 said when telling her mom she would be a stem cell donor. She has to live and actively try to make up for the years of terrible treatment Sekyung #2 had to endure; dying won't solve anything, and it's the cowardly way out. It's way harder to face up to your mistakes and look at the people you've hurt every day than to just die and get it over with. Now stepmom knows that Wookyung knows what she did, and she'll be reminded of it every time she looks at her stepdaughter. I highly doubt Wookyung would ever leave Eunseo in the room alone with her grandmother, either, despite her decision to still allow them to interact. So it's not as if the narrative is saying everything is happy sunshine and rainbows and everyone skips off into the sunset hand in hand, there's still a LOT of baggage that everyone has to work thorough.
  6. Whew, finally finished the last episode. I started it before going to work, then had to leave for work 20 mins before the end, so I basically spent my entire day in abject agony, lol. X'D I have to say, though there are still things I wish Mrs. Writer-Nim would have expounded upon (we'll get to those in a minute), I do personally think that this final episode ended remarkably well, considering all the ways it could have failed spectacularly. As others have mentioned, while it doesn't end completely on a downer note, it's a very somber ending. I do think, however, the tone of the ending matches the tone of the rest of the series was going for, even if I was personally hoping for a slightly brighter ending myself. The killer is caught, but everyone still has to live with their guilt and their trauma and the knowledge of what happened, just as we ourselves do in the real world. There's no Instant-Fix button, no way to immediately recover from trauma and forget it ever happened. The scars will always be there, even if we eventually recover. And especially in TV-Land, where it seems everything can be fixed and forgotten in the span of a time-skip and a few quick cuts, I think it's helpful to occasionally remind ourselves that sometimes, healing takes time. And for some people, healing never comes, because their lives were cut short too soon for them to find it. I am very happy with how Wookyung's storyline panned out, even though it was bittersweet at best. She found closure, and she took the high road and didn't succumb to her rage and need for vengeance. Near the end, when she told Red Cry she wanted revenge on her stepmother, my blood ran cold, and I honestly thought for a few moments that she would actually go through with it and this was how the show would end, so as you can imagine, I breathed an immense sigh of relief when the lights switched on and revealed Red Cry for who he really was. I'm glad, also, that she took the time to pay her respects to Eunho, even leaving him flowers. I think she realized that their stories were very much a "there but for the grace of God go I" situation, and the only reason she was able to pull herself out of that hell that her memories plunged her into was because she had a support network of a couple very good and supportive people (and a certain little guardian angel brain ghost), while Eunho didn't truly have anyone. Speaking of Eunho. You guys hit the nail right on the head, I think. I place the lion's share of the blame for the path Eunho went down and his eventual fate squarely on his shoulders. He was a psychiatrist, for crying out loud! If anyone was equipped to help Eunho heal from his trauma, it was him, and yet he turned his brother into an attack dog instead, a tool for him to use to exact vengeance on those he deemed deserved it, while YTJ stayed up in his safe little ivory tower and never had to get his hands dirty until said attack dog went and got himself killed trying to protect his sorry @$$. No wonder Eunho was so miserable that he eventually decided to take his own life. Even if he believed that he was doing the right thing, even if he believed that this was the way to finally get someone to love him, the existence he led must have worn away at his gentle soul until he simply couldn't take it anymore. But even though no one ever truly loved him, as @thistle said, Eunho never stopped trying to show kindness to others; he never stopped trying to get children to smile, never stopped wanting their best with his whole, entire heart. His is the most tragic story in the entire drama, I think. Yes, what happened to the other kids was awful, but at least the living ones have better lives now and the chance to recover, whereas the ones who died at least no longer had to suffer. Eunho had to live like he did for an entire quarter of a century, abandoned, used, and/or abused by everyone who should have had his best interests at heart. I just wish, more than anything else, that he would have been given that same opportunity, to live and heal and find people who loved him, too. He didn't deserve the end he was given. But I suppose that was kind of the point, wasn't it. Also, oh my GOD, that scene in the interrogation room where YTJ made Jiheon cry and tried to subtly hypnotize him made my blood boil. And right after I was listening to his measured responses to all the questions about how him not revealing how Eunho was his brother because people would jump to conclusions just like the police were doing and internally going "well, the man has a point, I have to admit," too. B| TBH, I don't feel much sympathy for YTJ as a character at all. While being abandoned by his mom was indeed awful and tragic, he at least had a good and loving adoptive home in the US, a quality education, many friends, a respected profession, everything he needed to turn out to be an upstanding member of society. And yet what does he do upon being reunited with his traumatized younger brother and discovering the horrors visited upon him? Not get him therapy, maybe plan to tank the Center (because ain't nothing wrong with Eunho's original plan to bankrupt the Head Director, tbh, I supported him fully in that endeavor) and expose the Songs for the monsters they are, maybe even offer options to abused wives and children that DON'T involve murder, no, no. Let's dive headfirst into the murder and use said traumatized little brother as the loaded gun, why not. Seriously, screw YTJ. I do wish they would have explained Jiheon's deal with his ex, and why he chooses to sleep in the bathtub constantly, but maybe they wanted to leave that up to the viewer's imagination. I will say that I do think Sooyoung's character was kind of... underutilized, though. :/ For being a main lead, she seemed more like a sidekick for most of the show, and simply served as a sounding board for Jiheon instead of feeling like her own independent character. I really wish she'd had more scenes to herself, and more time spent developing her backstory (even though I'm happy it seems like she's finally getting some help from her team). The show probably could have benefited from one more hour just to give more time to everything and not have the ending feel quite so rushed, even though the pacing was still pretty decent. They didn't show a completely different flashback, though? They simply showed Eunho and YTJ meeting for the first time, them being horribly awkward around each other (for understandable reasons), and then Eunho coming in to ask if his brother could do something about his sleep aversion. I don't think any of that contradicted each other in any way. I also didn't feel like the flashbacks with the mask contradicted themselves. It showed Eunho on the dog butcher's farm, while YTJ said that Eunho carried out the plans YTJ came up with, and then cut to YTJ wearing the mask and beating the crap out of Jiheon, while the voiceover said something about plans not always going the way you think they do. (Or some such, I don't recall the exact words.) So I never had an issue with the way the flashbacks were shot, personally. They were always pretty clear to me. Maybe they were sometimes shot in ways that were meant to be deliberately ambiguous, especially before the reveal, but I never had trouble following them. I suppose, though, if one entered with the suspicion that the show was going to be actively trying to lie to the audience the entire way through, one would be wayyyy more unlikely to trust anything on screen, so I can see where you're coming from with that. No worries! I find this kind of stuff fun as long as both parties are civil and respectful of each other's viewpoints. ^^ And word vomits are awesome, bring on the walls of text. XD It's really interesting when people have a lot to say on a certain topic because they're passionate about it. This will be a show that sticks with me for a very long time, I think. While it wasn't perfect, very few things in life are, and it handled its subject matter with a delicacy and nuance that few other shows could have pulled off. It wanted to make its audience think, and it succeeded admirably on that front. The OST was all around fantastic, even if I'm fonder of some ending songs than others, and It's been a very long time since I've seen an ensemble cast this all-around talented, including all the child actors. I'm very glad I watched it, and very grateful to the writer, director, cast, and crew for all the hard work they put in to bring the story to us. Thanks to everyone on these forums for their thoughts and observations, as well! You guys really made me feel welcome here, and I've immensely enjoyed speculating and theorizing along with all of you. I'll be sorry to say goodbye to this story and these characters (even if my heart and nerves have taken a beating over the last month), but I don't think I'm ready to do so quite yet. I have some ideas in mind for a few alternate/missing scenes that came to me while waiting for future episodes, and I want to write them out at some point. Watch this space.
  7. All I can say is, if this show ends on a downer or completely open ended note, I'm going to compose several angry letters to the writer. I mean, I'd hope they wouldn't do that and give us some sort of satisfying resolution while still keeping a few things open ended, but you never know. Too many dramas have crashed and burned during their last episode for me to feel completely at ease right now. I'm... really worried about Wookyung right now, tbh. Multiple people have pointed out how she's wearing a red coat in some of the shots when she's mostly worn neutral colors throughout the whole drama, and the way she carries herself and speaks to the stepmother... it really has warning bells going off in my head. I really hope someone will be able to pull her back from the edge before she swan dives right off of it. Maybe little brain ghost Sekyung will show up one more time, like she did when Wookyung was thinking about running over Sukwoo's mom. Perhaps it will be Jiheon, where he finally tells Wookyung what happened to his own child (since that's a plot thread that never went anywhere and needs some resolution). Either way, I really hope the series doesn't end with her taking up the mantle of Red Cry and carrying on his crusade, because that would feel like a huge letdown for sure. And I mean, Jiheon is no fool; if Eunho is dead and YTJ is behind bars, and Red Cry STILL is going after people, who is he going to suspect first? It'd be a short second season, is all I'm saying.
  8. I was wondering about that myself, actually! Even to my uneducated eyes, it did seem like she went down... really quick. I chalk it up to artistic license and the drama not wanting to make us sit through 10 minutes of her wheezing and choking and gagging. The reason I say this is because I watched a drama where someone got strangled to death on screen once, and it was over in, like, 15 seconds. It takes waaaay longer to choke someone to death in real life, I looked it up. So yeah, either she was also having an allergic reaction to something (quite possible, given all the dust and mold that was likely in such an environment), or the drama didn't want to make us watch a woman die for 20 mins straight. Or, I mean, could be both. *le shrug* I have so much anxiety from that teaser, tho, ngl. I have a feeling Wookyung mayyyyy be about to do something she'll regret regarding Stepmom. Don't do it, girl, resist the urge! Stay strong!
  9. My mistake then, I apologize. I don't know anyone with asthma or respiratory problems, so my experience with/knowledge of the condition is limited. My point was that it seemed like Hana's mother expired quite quickly when the inhaler was withheld from her, and Sora's father was so sloshed that he didn't feel a thing when he suffocated to death, so it wasn't like Eunho was trying to make them suffer or prolong their deaths. That's all I was really trying to say.
  10. Ugh, I know, that scene hurts my heart every time I remember it. He doesn't step back out of arm's reach, he doesn't retaliate, he doesn't even cry out, he just stands there and takes it in silence. In fact, he seems shocked when she doesn't continue hitting him. Knowing what we know now about his background, my heart breaks for him all the more. At least she had the good graces to apologize to him later for it (something he was definitely not used to, I'm sure), but still, he didn't deserve that. At all.
  11. @kumakumo I do definitely understand wanting justice for Eunho himself, and I hope the show gives it to us, especially if his brother was the one who pressured him down the path that he ended up taking, because he's just as much of a victim as the other people who have died because of Red Cry's crusade. My problem with not taking the flashbacks having to do with Red Cry and the murders at least mostly at face value is that if you do that, then you by association have to question every single other flashback we've seen thus far as well. Did Jiheon really have a child at some point? Are Wookyung's recollections about baby!Sekyung accurate? I don't really see anyone questioning those, but if we can't trust the flashbacks about the murders, then how do we know the show isn't messing with us concerning those as well? Either the flashbacks are a reliable source of information, or they're not, we can't have it both ways. Unless the show establishes from the start that every single person is an unreliable narrator, and that flashbacks change depending on who's telling them (as some shows and movies have actually done), then I think it's a safer bet to say that flashbacks are a reliable source of information, meant to clue the audience in to specific key events so that they can have a more accurate picture of what's going on. Because that's the thing with mysteries. Yes, you want to keep the audience on their toes and constantly second-guessing themselves, but at the same time, you want them to feel like they have all the pieces of the puzzle, that they can solve the mystery themselves if only they look hard enough, and if it turns out they were wrong in the end, they at least go "oooh, well, that makes sense, I can't believe I missed that, it was right in front of me all along!" Like the huge twist in the Sixth Sense. All the clues pointing to the reveal are given to the audience all throughout the movie, so when it happens, it comes as a big "AHA!" moment, rather than a "wait, what? That doesn't make any sense, where did this come from?" moment. So I really don't think that deliberately psyching the audience out with the murder flashbacks would be a wise decision on the part of the writer. It actually would come across not only as bad writing in general, but especially bad mystery writing. I agree about Eunho not being the one to kill the dog butcher, though. Like, he still could have done it, not discounting the possibility because I don't trust the writer as far as I can throw her, but as I've said elsewhere, if you look at the murders you can attribute to Eunho, i.e. Hana's mom, Sora's dad, the head director, they were all deaths by asphyxiation. Asthma attack for Hana's mom, carbon monoxide poisoning for Sora's dad, suffocation for the head director. All relatively quick, painless deaths, as far as deaths go. No violent altercations or torture involved. Those seem way more like someone like Eunho's style rather than the death the dog butcher had. That's another thing, though; we never see Eunho kill the head director. We don't see camera footage, or anything like that, yet I have not heard one person say "Well, he didn't actually kill him, someone else came in and did it and Eunho is only saying that he did!" Like, no, we all know he did it, even though we didn't see it. Why then would it be so hard to extrapolate that he also committed at least a couple of the other murders as well, especially if the series showed him kill them? If we all know he killed the head director, then why is it so hard to believe that he might have also killed a couple other people, albeit quickly and relatively painlessly? As for the shoes, I think @liddi posted some pictures of the pictures the police took of the shoes they recovered from Eunho's room, and the laces were indeed tied differently. Those were the head director's shoes. However, I don't discount the possibility of an accomplice also having a pair of those same shoes to hide the fact that there were multiple people at the farm, or something being hidden in the director's shoes (though you'd think the police would have already found it if that was the case). Not sure about the poems or what the writer was trying to convey by using them, tbh. It could possibly be that Eunho picked them because they were sad, and he recognized the tragedy of the situation while still believing that the culprits had to pay for their crimes, but that's just conjecture. It's not like Jiheon or Wookyung can ask Eunho about it now, either way. Maybe the writer wants the audience to decide for themselves what the poems mean. *shrug*
  12. Well said, @bedifferent. People always have a choice in how they deal with their trauma, but at the same time, if someone isn't even aware that there is another way to handle their pain, if they weren't taught that growing up or learned it as an adult, then can they be fully blamed for the coping mechanisms they use to deal with it until they do finally have the opportunity to be shown the correct way to manage their trauma? Food for thought. I also really, truly hope that the show ends with the first steps to healing taking place, for the surviving characters to begin moving on from their trauma while honoring those who died before they were able to. Perhaps that's why Eunho and Siwan's little sister were placed together in Eunho's teaser poster. It's too late for them, now, but not too late for the people whose lives they touched to start making a real difference in the world, and to make sure what happened to them doesn't happen to other children.
  13. @kumakumo While you may certainly be right about Eunho not being the culprit... idk, I'm not convinced that that's what the show's trying to convey, especially with just one episode left. After all, what about Sora's dad? We see Eunho in the car getting him drunk, we see the match dropping onto the charcoal, and we see him get out of the car and flip his hood up. I mean, that looks like pretty damning evidence to me. We also have seen how angry he can get when he was destroying the poetry books, just as Wookyung has this festering rage hiding deep inside her that even she isn't always aware of, just waiting to be unleashed, like when she grabbed the knife in the kitchen or began repeatedly slapping Sukwoo's mom. Even if he "doesn't seem the type" to kill, you can't always judge a book by its cover. Just look at all the different perpetrators of abuse we've seen throughout the show. Did Bitna's mom seem the type to violently beat her child? Did the Head Director seem the child-molesting type? I also don't think making him a culprit makes him any less the genuinely kind, sweet, gentle person we saw interact with the kids all throughout the rest of the show. While the saying "cool motive, still murder" is always applicable to situations like this because the person is still dead regardless of the intent, I still think that motive still does play a role in how culpable someone is for the crimes they commit. A destitute person who steals a loaf of bread to feed their starving child is different than someone who steals designer makeup because they just want it, you know? Yes, they both stole, but the reasoning behind the crime makes one person understandable while the other just comes out looking like an entitled @$$hole. Eunho killed because he was a traumatized, deeply broken individual who just wanted to save the children he loved so much who were suffering, and because of his own past (and possibly because of outside influence *side-eyes YTJ some more*), he could literally see no other way to spare them a lifetime of pain than to cut off that source of pain at the root, because if he didn't act, who would? Compare that with someone like the director, who killed someone in a fit of violent passion over money and then expected someone else to take the fall for him. Murder is still wrong, regardless, but hopefully this shows how someone like Eunho can still come out of it as sympathetic to the general audience while someone like the director notably does not. And I wouldn't say him being at least one of the culprits would go against what the show's trying to convey. It's true that if you have a tragic past, it's not a given that it's going to change and warp you into an extremist yourself, but at the same time, I think that's the struggle that Wookyung is going through, not Eunho. I think that Eunho is the show's cautionary tale figure, while Wookyung is what can happen if someone in that position has the support around them to lift themselves out of that cycle and find a better way. (Doesn't mean I'm not still bitter about him not getting the chance to heal and have a future, though, they could have at least let him live, dammit.) I mean, why else would Eunho have been so clearly rattled by Wookyung's declaration that he was a murderer if he hadn't actually killed anyone after all? Those were confirmed to be the director's shoes in Eunho's room, though, if I'm not mistaken? I think Sooyoung confirmed it when she was talking to Jiheon. I mean, there were no traces of blood OR dirt on them when they were analyzed, and even if Eunho wasn't the one to kill Hana's father, he still would have gotten his shoes filthy tramping around the farm. Even if he washed them, there should still be traces. Plus, it doesn't really make sense for Eunho and his accomplice to play musical chairs with three pairs of shoes. How would that have gone down, anyway? "Hey bro, I need your shoes, gotta put them in the director's closet, you'll just need to walk home barefoot." "K." Of course, I could be wrong about this particular point, but still, I'm dubious. While I also am totally not surprised to hear that the lines of the poems have a completely different meaning in the original context, it was actually speculated before the big reveal by another poster who I think studies criminal profiling that the person leaving the poetry has a high-school level education at best, because they don't have a deeper understanding of the poems they use and aren't trained to analyze them; they simply take out snippets that seem applicable at first glance and apply them to their own life and circumstances at will. Lo and behold, what is Eunho? A blue-collar worker with no higher education, who is only familiar with so much poetry because his abuser had him read it to him constantly. What a coincidence. I also think that in this point in time, revealing that Eunho wasn't at least partially responsible would make me feel... betrayed. Not by the character, but by the narrative itself. I don't mind if something a character says turns out to be untrue or not, because it was my decision to interpret their words the way I did, and if the show hadn't shown us flashbacks and just shown us Eunho talking with Wookyung in the car while he was confessing, I'd be right there with the rest of you guys in going "Yeah, he's 100% totally innocent, he's covering for someone else for sure." But they did show us flashbacks, and when the narrative explicitly sets up a plotline on screen, and then goes, "Well, actually, no, that didn't happen, even though we showed it to you and you had no reason to suspect that may have been anything other than what actually happened," I get annoyed. Because at that point, it's not foreshadowing, it's straight up lying to your audience for simple shock value. It's bad writing. With the dog butcher, I do think they're setting up that Eunho didn't kill him, because of the fact that we did not hear him confess to it, and we see him not wearing his good person mask at some points during the flashback, but with Hana's mom and Sora's dad? I will call bull$h!t if they psyche us out with those incidents, because they showed them to us on screen. I do definitely think Eunho's taking the fall for someone, though, and is letting people believe that he killed more people than he did or was the sole perpetrator of the crimes. But again, this could all be rendered moot by the next episode, who knows. I honestly think I'll be dead by Wednesday, regardless of what actually ends up happening, lol.
  14. Ah, hello @kumakumo, wasn't expecting to see you here! Thanks for the awesome analysis! Honestly, the whole thing was extremely interesting and well-written, and I agree with basically all of it, especially the reason why Eunho decided to kill Wookyung. Just taking into account the info that we have available to us right now, it makes far too much sense that YTJ was using Eunho, and realizing that his brother was doing to him emotionally what the director was doing to him physically was probably one of the things that started Eunho down the self-destructive path to choosing to commit suicide by cop. T_T Everyone he ever thought loved him, everyone he ever trusted in his life ended up betraying and using him in the end. That knowledge would be enough to destroy any person, tbh. I just... I wish Wookyung could have got to him sooner. That she could have shown him enough true compassion and unselfish kindness to give him enough strength to break away from his abusers and discover a better way to live before his pain ended up consuming him. @liddi, @bedifferent I don't think you have to worry about the narrative being reluctant to condemn Eunho's actions and paint him as this complete and total victim regardless of how the finale turns out, though. I think they've made it quite clear that whatever sad circumstances led to his ultimate fate, whatever forces that persuaded him that this was the right course of action to take, it was still ultimately Eunho's choice to commit those murders, and it was still wrong for him to do so. I do think, however, that by showing the perpetrator of these murders to be such a pitiable and sympathetic person with understandable motives, they create cognitive dissonance in the viewer, and force us all to reexamine our own beliefs and biases. What he did was wrong, will always be wrong, but we can't bring ourselves hate the man himself for doing what he did because we understand why he did it, you know? Ultimately, he was just a child in pain, and all he could see were other children in pain. I think that's a way more nuanced course of action to take than just painting all of Red Cry with broad brushstrokes of "All these people are just straight-up psychopaths, end of story." Bitna's mom. The doctor. All the other people that make up the group. They're all varying shades of grey, none of them utterly beyond sympathy or redemption. Regardless of whether YTJ turns out to be on the lighter side or almost black remains to be seen, but whatever course of action the show decides to take, that it took the time to be this varied in its approaches to the different members of the Red Cry organization shows a level of sophistication that most shows wouldn't take. That's just my two cents on the matter, tho. @thistleI understand your feelings about not believing that Eunho could be the murderer. Ultimately, though, they've explicitly shown us that he was responsible for the deaths of Hana's mom, Sora's dad, and the head director, so unless the narrative was flat-out lying to us in the flashbacks pertaining to Hana's mom and Sora's dad, I think it's pretty safe to say that he did indeed kill those individuals. Now, I'm not convinced he was responsible for killing Hana's father (remember, he didn't confess to it!), and he definitely wasn't the one to beat up Jiheon or kill Siwan's dad, so I do think that there was at least one another individual in charge of killing people in a more violent fashion, and Eunho wasn't responsible for everything. So there is that at least. God, you all are bound and determined to utterly shatter my heart over this poor character all over again, aren't you. Urge to write... fix-it fic... rising...!
  15. @liddi Hmmm... I'm not completely convinced, but you do make a pretty compelling argument, especially with the provision of rock-solid alibis indicating that Eunho was being looked after, at least initially, by whoever was running the organization. The only thing I can't figure out now is why Eunho kept making excuses for Director Song when Wookyung found him beating the tar out of Eunho. "He's like an uncle or older brother," he said. "But he's not a bad person, he just gets angry sometimes." If he already had an older brother figure in his life that he could compare and contrast the director with, then why did he keep making excuses for him? Why couldn't he recognize the abusive behavior for what it was until the director essentially left him to rot in prison? That could just be the nature of abuse, I suppose, especially abuse from someone one's grown up with, but from my understanding, it's much easier to break the cycle when you have other good relationships to show you just how bad the one you're currently in is. So if Eunho had YTJ in his life at that point, and his brother was actually being a decent human being to him, then why did he still accept all the abuse lying down? Why did he seem so absolutely bewildered when Wookyung expressed concern for him, bandaging his wounds and telling him to report the director to the police? It's like he'd never had anyone show him a modicum of of that sort of kindness to him before, and he didn't quite know what to do with it. And speaking of Wookyung, I'm preeeeetty sure Eunho likely knew exactly what YTJ had planned for her. So why then would he choose to kill her, knowing that YTJ would probably try to get her to remember her past, just like he likely did with him? Was that the one thing he drew the line at? Knowing that someone else would be in as much agony as he himself was in if his brother continued as planned in order to recruit her, so he was like "Over my dead body" and took matters into his own hands when the opportunity presented itself to do the one thing he could think of to try to save her? I'm really curious to see what the answer to this is, if YTJ has wanted to bring Wookyung into the fold for a long time, to which Eunho vehemently disagreed, or if trying to recruit her is something he came up with after his brother died because he's likely to join him soon and someone needs to continue their work? Guess we'll just have to wait and see how everything ends up playing out one way or another, and what YTJ true intentions were all along; whether he did truly care about his brother's plight, or was just using him like everyone else. I really have absolutely no idea how they're going to wrap everything up in a single hour, though, and answer all our questions satisfactorily. Just please don't leave us on a cliffhanger, writer-nim, please, I beg of you, I don't think my heart could take a cliffhanger ending.
  16. I also agree with this assessment. Perhaps YTJ knew they were related, but he didn't inform Eunho of it, or neither of them knew. Though, I don't exactly think this is the most likely option, since someone told Eunho where his mother abandoned him, and YTJ had the picture of the lighthouse on his tablet, so. :/ Yeah. Honestly, I'm side-eying YTJ very hard right now. He's an 11 full years older than Eunho, a fully-functioning, professional adult who is clearly trained in people-reading and understanding how and why they tick. He was fully capable of removing his traumatized little brother from his abusive environment and caring for him properly, getting him the therapy he needed and showing him what a healthy family is really like. Even if Eunho didn't want to completely leave the children at the center, he at least didn't have to live there anymore, and could have had a safe and loving home with his brother or in a place his brother found for him instead. We know that YTJ is fully capable of pulling the strings needed to restart someone's life, as seen with Sukwoo's mom and Siwan's mom. Why couldn't he have done that for his own flesh and blood, the person who needed a loving, stable presence in his life the most? No, instead, he lets Eunho stay miserable and broken, lets him stay under the thumb of his abusers all his life, lets him become a murderer, lets him fester in his own personal hell until the only thing he can think of to end the horrific pain he lives with day in and day out is to essentially commit suicide. Does that sound like someone who really wants to "save those who have suffered"? Or just someone who needs an attack dog to do the dirty work for them so they can stay safely atop their moral high horse and dispense judgement on others with impunity? In addition, user Hobakky on Dramabeans made this observation after finishing episode 26, which made me sit up ramrod straight in my chair and stare blankly at the wall for a few horrified seconds: Did anyone else find EH’s repetition of “I guess I’m not a good person” in his confession to WK odd? First, there’s an irony that a guy that believes he’s not a good person would choose to wear a “Good Person” mask in a vigilante crusade to save children. Second, I feel like a psychopath killer that is unbothered by killing a person would not feel a need to explain to his next victim that he’s not a good person. And finally, his repetition of the phrase sounds awfully like something that someone brainwashed to believe something would say… Who would try to "brainwash" Eunho to believe something like that? Could it be none other than his own brother, YTJ, so that it would be easier to manipulate him into doing what he wanted? "You're dirty, filthy, disgusting, broken, good for nothing except cleaning out the trash of society, while I on the other hand shall be the angel of mercy to these poor victims and lift them out of their life of poverty and abuse." YTJ might have tried to set up a "two sides of the same coin" kind of deal, where he plays the aforesaid angel of mercy to Eunho's angel of death (even though he might have also carried out some of the murders himself, that remains to be seen). Hence why Eunho might have been the one to take the fall for Red Cry and become the scapegoat for all their crimes. A poor, no name handyman is much easier to demonize and sweep under the rug than a respected and venerated psychiatrist who is just healing those who need it out of the goodness of his heart. Of course, I could be way off base with these observations, and everything could be far more complicated than it seems, but the fact remains that I really don't trust YTJ. And if it turns out he is affiliated with Red Cry and is directly responsible for manipulating Eunho and leading him to his ultimate fate, then I hope he burns. That all being said, @liddi you also had some interesting observations about the matter. This could also be the case, and Eunho could have willingly volunteered to go back to that awful place in order to begin the destruction of his abuser's legacy, but boy, talk about bad ideas. Especially given that he was still being abused even there, even as an adult. I also question why Eunho would be so willing to take the fall and die if he knew his brother would be devastated by the news of his death. That also doesn't explain why, if his brother was a psychiatrist, Eunho wasn't getting regular therapy sessions to help him manage his trauma, rather than just letting him go back to the people that broke him so utterly and expecting him to just deal with it. Makes no sense to me.
  17. It turns out that Eunho was in a coma and not actually dead and Wookyung promptly adopts him and makes sure he gets proper therapy. Adult!Sekyung also moves in with them and Eunseo. Wookyung frames the picture Eunho drew of baby!Sekyung and hangs it in a place of honor where everyone can see it every day. Eunho and Jiheon become awkward besties. Jiheon moves out of the bathtub and starts sleeping in a real bed. Sooyoung finally kicks her stepbrother's @$$ and starts smiling more. The dog butcher's dogs all get adopted into good homes and Hana is given one of the puppies. Sora becomes a pianist prodigy and singlehandedly lifts her and her mother out of poverty.
  18. Welp, looks like the real Sekyung is dead, just like I suspected. That poor, poor, sweet little girl. I just wanted to wrap her in my arms when the stepmother was yanking her around like that and shield her from what was about to happen. Poor Wookyung having to remember her sister's death in such a fashion. I also feel deeply sorry for her stepsister, who was treated so terribly all her life for something that was in no way her fault. I hope she and Wookyung can become closer after this, rebuild their family and put all the darkness of the past behind them. I feel like Stepmom has a huge bullseye painted on her back now, though, especially since the psychiatrist heard everything. If Jiheon doesn't put him behind bars immediately, then I think he might go after her, or try to goad Wookyung into doing it herself. (I'm pretty sure the fireplace is where they disposed of the "evidence," as well. It's what makes the most logical sense.) Props to Siwan's actor, his confession made me cry. No, sweetie, you're not a bad person, not at all, and godbless Wookyung for telling him that for me. I'm glad he got everything out so that it doesn't fester and consume him entirely later in life, and he can begin the road to healing. (Also, don't think that I missed those subtle parallels between Eunho and Siwan being scapegoated, writer-nim, you can't fool me, I'm onto you.) And what we all very strongly suspected has been confirmed: the psychiatrist is Eunho's brother! I'd bet quite a lot that he's Red Cry as well. Now all that remains to be seen is just how badly he let his little brother down. Did he do his best with trying to treat Eunho's trama (somehow, I doubt this; normal people don't go aiding and abetting their siblings with serial killing), or did he see a vulnerable person he could easily exploit and use to carry on his personal crusade of "justice" by offering a few sympathetic words? Also, I REALLY like the credits song for this week, wow, what a pretty song. The Edge is still my favorite, but this is a close second. Some cute bts Eunho pics for the soul!
  19. Okay, I've been doing my best to avoid spoilers all day so I'm somewhere in the middle of page 43 and have read any posts beyond that, but where tf is episode 30???? Viki uploaded episode 29 no problem, but episode 30 is still "coming soon" and I'm going absolutely insane. Is this normally a thing with Viki? I'm paying for this service, the least they could do is be punctual and give me what I'm paying for.
  20. WHEN WILL THIS SHOW STOP JERKING ME AROUND, DANGIT. (┛✧Д✧))┛彡┻━┻ Seriously, writer-nim, it's very taxing to have to keep revising my theories every other episode, pls give me a break, I pray. Well, looks like I didn't really need to play devil's advocate for Eunho after all, and I was at least partially right with my theory post this time last week, so that's something. It's also been confirmed that as many suspected, there's someone besides Eunho and the doctor running the scenes behind Red Cry, so that's interesting to have confirmed. Onwards to my thoughts and observations! I was very sad to see that Eunho died almost immediately, with no fanfare or final scene or anything like that. Just poof, gone, just like that. I hope he was at least able to find some peace, before the end. His pain is finally over, and he can rest at long last. TT TT Would it have killed you to at least aim for a leg, Jiheon? Geez. But he's beaten himself up over the incident enough, there's no need for me to do it for him. And in such high-stakes, high adrenaline situations, stuff happens in the spur of the moment, so I can't blame him too much. Still, I can tell this incident's really haunting him, and I really feel for him. Even if it's to save a life, taking the life of another - especially someone as pitiable and sympathetic as Eunho - still would weigh heavily on most people's consciences. At the same time, I'm glad that it's pressing him to find the full truth of the situation so that everything can be revealed. I'm happy to see that Eunho seemed to have a rock-solid alibi for Dec 21st and that he wasn't the one to beat the tar out of Jiheon! It seems to confirm what we all suspected for awhile, that violently attacking someone like that likely simply isn't in his nature. Although, I was confused about something, and that's if Eunho was busy on the 21st, then who set up the information pick up for the stair boy story with Wookyung? The hands that were typing looked a LOT like Eunho's, plus the typist rubbed their thumbs and forefingers together similar to the way Eunho is always absently playing with his fingers. That always bugged me, even when I was holding out hope that Eunho wasn't Red Cry. Plus, Eunho knew about the story and connected it to Siwan, and even said that Jiheon tricked him while talking about it with Wookyung. Could he have set the meeting up and someone else gone and gotten the package? Or did the whoever the mastermind is plan everything? Okay, so the psychiatrist. Obviously, he has some kind of connection with Eunho, the lighthouse picture on his tablet makes that very clear. But what? Are they indeed brothers? If so, why didn't he remove Eunho from his abusive environment? If he is his brother, he's 11 years older, after all, he could have easily done so. Why didn't he properly treat his brother's trauma and instead leave him to suffer so horribly for so long in silence? (I keep seeing people say he cried for Eunho and like??? ???? Where??? All I saw was him placidly reassuring Wookyung and then looking at his tablet for a moment before moving on, where did he cry for Eunho???) Why did Eunho commit suicide by cop if he had a brother who loved him and would miss him dearly if he was gone? Idk, considering all this, I think it's possible they either don't know they're brothers, or they might not be brothers at all and the writer is trying to pull a bait and switch. And even if they are, it would be just poor Eunho's luck to have a hyung who would string him along and use him for his own ends just like every other authority figure in his life has used him, and if that turns out to be the case, I will personally fight my way into Dramaland and kick the psychiatrist's @$$ my own damn self. But if the psychiatrist is indeed involved in Red Cry, then it would definitely make more sense than Eunho being the mastermind, that's for sure. He's certainly very charming and well spoken and professional and persuasive. I always believed that if Eunho was acting alone after the doctor killed himself, then he was kind of lurking silently in the shadows unless he needed to go take care of business while letting the rest of the members police and recruit themselves, since his people skills are rather poor toward people that are older then about 14. The psychiatrist being in charge of that side of things, the planning and all that, makes a lot of sense. I do think it's interesting that we saw the psychiatrist personally meet Hana, too. If he does dabble in hypnotherapy, it's entirely possible he could have figured out at least something about her secret, and if so, I'd bet that he was the one to beat up her dad, yank his teeth out, and kill him, not Eunho, who was just tagging along to leave the poetry while the other went and dug up the body of the child before the police arrived. After all, we now know that Eunho was not the one to attack Jiheon on the rooftop, so he doesn't seem to prefer violence as a solution to things. Close inspection would also reveal an interesting bit of trivia that I think everyone's missed up until now, including myself: whenever the series has confirmed that Eunho has personally killed someone - not insinuated, not implied, shown, without a doubt - it's always been by asphyxiation: Hana's mom died from an asthma attack. Sora's dad died from carbon monoxide poisoning from the burning charcoal. The Head Director suffocated from the paper that had been shoved down his throat. None of those three murders involved overt physical altercations. Don't you think it's... odd... that the series would set up a clear pattern of deaths only to suddenly break it by revealing the Hana's dad died from a blow to the head? Consider also that Eunho very tellingly did not actually confess to killing him. Hana's mom? Yes. Sora's dad? Yes. The head director? Yes. Hana's dad? No. Now, I fully admit that he could still have done it, I don't want to discount any possibilities here and I fully admit that I may just be making weird, random connections that aren't actually there, but... idk, does anyone else think this seems just a little fishy? Especially now that we know someone else is behind Red Cry? Or is it just me? So who else caught that Eunho's brother was named Eunseo, just like Wookyung's daughter? I keep flashing back to the lighthouse, where Wookyung was telling Eunho that she was "also Eunseo's mother" and what would Eunseo think if he killed her mother, and ugh ugh U G H my feels, all my mother/son feels, I am in PAIN. I was really surprised that we were shown a grownup Minki during this episode, I really didn't think we'd see him again. Him reverently touching Eunho's portrait and his fierce protectiveness for him and wrath towards Jiheon for killing him surprised me as well. Made me wonder if Eunho was actually telling the truth when he told Jiheon that he and Minki had lost touch over the years, or if Minki simply came to pay his respects for a dear childhood friend who was probably one of the only people to ever really understand what he'd been going through. I wonder if we'll see him again, and if he's been roped into Red Cry (dear God, I hope not). Interesting how this looped back around to the hit and run driver, the psychiatrist, and Haneul Center, too. I'm very glad to see that Sukwoo's mom is doing well, and that she's even spending time with her daughter occasionally. ^^ I kind of wonder... did the psychiatrist/Red Cry get wind of her confession that she was a bad mom, and her regret over what happened to her son, and believe that she could be redeemed? After all, she never abused her kids, she was just absent and didn't want anything to do with them. So that can at least be fixed in his mind. Now someone like Siwan's father on the other hand, who probably killed his own daughter and abuses his wife (judging from the huge bruise Jiheon saw on her neck), that kind of scum has got to go. Now Jiheon has definitive proof that Red Cry is still out there somewhere, and that Eunho was a scapegoat. Boy, I can't wait to see what twists the next eps have in store! As for the latest happenings in Wookyung's Family Drama, the instant Stepmom's nose started to bleed, I was like "Oh. She's not being abused, she's sick." And sure enough, judging from the preview for today's episode, I'm right. I'm glad Sekyung seems to be doing better, and that Eunseo likes her so much. I kind of want her to go live with them for awhile after she recovers, too, I think they could all do each other a lot of good. And as for the GDG mystery... I think the original Sekyung is dead. The one we know now is a stepsister, perhaps also named Sekyung, or renamed once her mom got remarried. As for what happened to the original Sekyung, judging by how repressed Wookyung's memories are, I think Wookyung might have killed her, deliberately or not, or seen her death happen. Her mental breakdown when adult!Sekyung had her accident might be a clue that her brain is trying to tell her, like you've seen/experienced this before. That's my theory, anyways, we'll see if I'm right or wayyyyy off base in the coming episodes. (Also, Stepmom slapping Wookyung in the preview made my blood boil. There are things you just don't do, especially to your adult children, and that's one of them.) Looks like we'll be getting some Sooyoung backstory in the next ep, woooo! \o/ It's about time, I can't wait to see what's her deal and to know a little more about her.
  21. So in case anyone's in the mood for some more sads, I was vehemently reminded of this song a couple days after finishing episode 26, and broke down into an ugly sobbing mess while listening to it with Eunho's situation in mind. (And hey, feel free to share songs that remind you of the series or characters if you want, I'm always in the mood to discover good music!)
  22. Ah thank you for the glue, this will do very nicely. Yeah, you may be right. Could also be someone else from Razorhead, as well. I honestly don't think it's Eunho. And oh yeah, I know about the daughter, my point was just that she didn't have any kids with her when she went to see Wookyung and ran into Eunho in the Center. Therefore, nothing would have really pinged Eunho's Abused Child Radar and there would be no reason for him to go after her, you know? I thought the girl in Eunho's poster was Siwan's sister (aka the Girl in the Red Dress) though? Or am I wrong? Also, apparently someone blew up the date on Eunho's tombstone(? idk what you call this). The poor guy had only just turned 25. He was so young...
  23. This reply is a bit late, but this is exactly why I enjoy this show so much, personally, despite how hard it is to watch sometimes. There ain't nothing wrong with a bit of fun cake now and then, we all need it to keep life from getting to monotonous and stale. I'm watching Legend of the Blue Sea on days that there aren't new Children of Nobody episodes (and yes, I get mood whiplash every time, thanks for asking), but I find myself thinking far, far more about Children of Nobody even on days that I don't have any new episodes. LotBS is fun, I do enjoy it, but CoN has wormed its way into my heart and just refuses to leave. I thrive when a show doesn't spoon-feed its audience answers, keeps us guessing, but more importantly, makes us think. The last show I've written this much meta about was Gravity Falls, back in mid-2015/early 2016. In addition, CoN feels like it has something truly important to say instead of just being pure entertainment. Look at all the discussion about morality and ethics and forgiveness the show's engendered thus far. When you can get your audience mulling over their own morality and really questioning themselves? That's special. If the writer can keep going strong for the last 3 hours and doesn't fall flat on her face 2 feet from the finish line, this may end up being one of my favorite shows of all time. Not even joking. Welcome, @dzareth! Glad to have you. Yeah, haha, we have fun here. XD Enjoy the rest of your viewing! In other news, THAT PREVIEW. It does look like Eunho is dead. Poor thing. I stand by what I said in wanting him to have one last scene with Wookyung and/or Jiheon before he goes, and if he doesn't imma write one myself, dammit. A girl has needs. Interesting that it does indeed look like the mystery of RC isn't totally solved, as many suspected, and good on Jiheon for wanting to double check make sure everything is properly wrapped up before the case is closed. I would have done the same thing. btw @thistle, I suddenly realized that your theory that Eunho wasn't the only one to kill the dog butcher might have some merit!! While he's carving the poem into the man's back in the flashbacks, Eunho is not wearing his good person mask! Why in the world would he have taken it off? Could he have lent it out to someone else? More questions. Pass me some of that glue @ktcjdrama, I think I'll be needing some myself to prepare myself for the upcoming episodes. Also, I've put together a list of the different plot threads and questions that have still been left unanswered as of episode 26 that I would really like to see addressed in some way before the end. Feel free to contribute more if you can think of any! Wookyung's past/The Girl in the Green Dress, Sekyung, Stepmom - Getting the obvious out of the way first. If the writer doesn't deliver on this mystery at least, I think we'll all be supremely disappointed. Jiheon's past/Ex-girlfriend, unborn child, abusive mother - Why did his girlfriend end up leaving him, and what happened to their child? Did she miscarry? Did she have an abortion? Did they give the child up for adoption? I'm hoping we get a little more light shed on his mother and his childhood, too. Since he didn't "have the same eyes" as Hana, Bitna, Sora, Wookyung, and Eunho, I'm guessing his mom was either just incredibly strict but not outright abusive, or she was abusive, but not often enough or to the extent that it left permanent scars on his psyche like the five individuals mentioned. (That, or he just had a damn good therapist idk.) Sooyoung's past - I really want to know what this woman's deal is. We've known her almost since the beginning of the series, but we know almost nothing about her personally except that she has violent anger issues and she almost never smiles. What happened to make her the way she is? What role does she ultimately play in this tale? She's mostly acted as Jiheon's sidekick up to now, but she's billed as a lead, so surely she has some larger part to play? The fate of the children's center - Now that Hanul Children's center is going under, what will happen to all the people who work there? Is Wookyung out of a job now? And if she is, how is she going to provide for Eunseo now? Will her ex take this chance to attempt to take custody of their daughter and perhaps be the final thing to push Wookyung to her breaking point? The real culprit of the Boy A Case - So if we assume Eunho was telling Wookyung the truth on the way to the lighthouse (and honestly, we have no reason to assume otherwise, since he clearly didn't expect to survive the day and this was the only chance he'd have to get everything off his chest), then the first person he ever killed was Hana's mother. How, then, did Minki's father die? Will this ever be revealed? Or was it truly just a freak accident? The real culprit of Sukwoo's mother's hit and run - I progressively become more and more puzzled by this case the longer I think about it. The whole thing just seemed so sloppy and random, and didn't feel like Eunho's style at all. For one thing, Eunho prefers to leave his targets blissfully unaware of their predicament, and then strikes when they least expect it. He doesn't try to intimidate people or threaten them , whereas the gift of the stuffed "dead" animal and the poetry clearly was meant to unnerve and discombobulate. Plus, Sukwoo's mom survived the accident! If Eunho had wanted her dead, I'm pretty sure he would have at least made sure of it before driving off. And even if, by some chance, she still survived, he's not what one would call a quitter; wouldn't he have tried to off her again at some point? And yet, as far as we know, she's still doing just fine. Eunho also doesn't seem the type to delegate judgements to underlings; he does his dirty work himself, so it seems unlikely that he would have tasked someone else to do the job, or that he would have set up some poor, unsuspecting truck driver to commit manslaughter. In addition, this case just doesn't seem to fit with Eunho's stated MO. He kills the parents of living children so that they can finally be rescued from their existence of misery and torment. You can't exactly save a kid who's already dead. True, Park Jihye's case was an exception to this, but it seemed that Eunho was mainly serving at the doctor's sidekick at the time. The doctor was the one who was obsessed with her case and seemed to be the one who really wanted her dead. He was the one who actively stalked her, he was the one who seemed to be in charge of orchestrating everything from the secret website to recruiting members, and he was tellingly the only one actually involved in the murder itself. Eunho was only able to bring himself to kill someone when the well-being of a living child was on the line. Plus, when Sukwoo's mom came over to the center, she didn't have her child with her. Eunho figures out that children are being abused by observing the children first and foremost. How could Eunho look at Sukwoo and tell he was being neglected or abused when he was already dead? Something doesn't add up. I do think it's also telling that Eunho didn't mention the incident to Wookyung whatsoever in the car, too. No "So I tried killing that lady who upset you because she was a bad mom, but boy, I really screwed that one up, eh?" or anything like that. He mentioned every single other Red Cry case, even the one he wasn't directly involved with, but yet not this one. So what's up? Was everything really a freak coincidence? Was it a copycat? Did someone else from the Razorhead website get wind of it and take matters into their own hands without Eunho's knowledge? Did he actually do it despite how seemingly illogical this is for the reasons outlined above? I'm so confused. Siwan and his sister - The series started with Siwan's story. It only seems fitting that now, as we're nearing the ending, it should conclude with finally unveiling the mystery of his family and what happened to his sister. This show really does not have a good track record when it comes to the mortality rate of the male abuse victims, though, so I'm honestly rather concerned about Siwan right now. I really hope he makes it.
  24. Aaaaah, okay, you were talking about people in-universe thinking he's a psycho. That makes a lot more sense, glad we got that cleared up. Well, I do think that even if he ends up dying at the lighthouse or in the hospital, the narrative won't leave his story where it is right here. Of course, I think it would be best for all parties involved if he was able to live and he received a hopeful ending in spite of everything, but have a little faith in the writer. She's brought us this far, and she clearly cares deeply about Eunho's storyline, or else she wouldn't have spent so much time showing us how he cares for the children at the center and showing us how he thinks and why. He did end up telling Wookyung about what happened to him in that room with the big desk where he used to have to read poetry, after all. I mean, not in so many words, but Wookyung is not an idiot, she can put two and two together pretty easily (and by the look of horror on her face and the way she started to cry after he said "It's best to not remember" while in the Head Director's study, I think she understood his meaning quite well). She knows what happened to him, even if no one else does. She can tell his story to others, so that even if the writer doesn't let him live, his suffering won't have been in vain. I truly don't think the writer would do him that dirty.
  25. Um....? I'm not sure where you're getting the impression that I think Eunho is a psychopath and "deserves what he got," @bedifferent? I've repeatedly expressed my desire for Eunho to survive the upcoming episodes and for him to get therapy so that he can begin to heal and recover ASAP. To be perfectly honest, I've not felt this much visceral pity and grief for a fictional character in one hell of a very long time. He deserved absolutely none of the crap that life threw at him, and he deserves a chance to see that there's a better way to deal with his problems, that healing and recovery are possible without resorting to more violence and pain. My recent posts were more about possible explanations as to how and why he could have done what he did without resorting to the "well, someone else actually did it and he's taking the fall for them, it wasn't actually his fault" explanation like some have been theorizing. Like, I mean, sure, that could definitely be the case, and tbh it would be a load off my mind if some of my earlier theories turned out to be actually true, and that impassioned 4 page essay I wrote after episodes 23/24 aired wasn't rendered mostly moot, lol. Until we get some concrete answers, though, I'm playing devil's advocate and asking well, what if that wasn't the case? What if there is no "man behind the man"? What then would explain Eunho's actions in a way that's believable but also revises the image of the the irredeemable nut job that everyone initially believed Red Cry to be into something that fits with the character we now have a better understanding of? Therefore, I was attempting to psychoanalyze Eunho a bit (insofar as one can psychoanalyze a fictional character) in light of the new information we've been given about him to see what might make him tick, and what I came up with so far was this: He has a child's simple, straightforward, black and white view of the world that allows him to make snap judgements about people, like he did with Hana's mother or Jiheon. He doesn't have worry about charming/coercing people into joining Red Cry to be because all the groundwork for recruitment was laid by the Doctor, and the current members are currently in charge of recruiting, so he doesn't have to contend with how socially-awkward he is around adults irl most of the time. He simply can't conceive of any other way of saving himself and these children and exposing the crimes of those who hurt them than to directly go for the perceived root of their problems, aka their abusers, because of how he was raised and how horribly he's suffered all his life. To him, the only way to possibly end pain caused by abuse is death, either yours or the person causing it. He has this deep, seething fury boiling within him, just waiting to be unleashed if he's pressed too far, just as Wookyung does; yet looking at her, you wouldn't think she has anger issues, would you? We hardly ever see her get truly angry, and we've spent far more screentime with her than we have Eunho. If Eunho sees a reflection of himself in her eyes, a kindred soul, so to speak, then it would only make logical sense that even when he's deeply, desperately angry and upset about something, it normally doesn't show on his face, just like Wookyung. As Sooyoung has said, Wookyung "screams with her whole body," not her words. It's the same with Eunho, imho. So, to recap, Eunho's not manipulative and conniving, he doesn't have a god complex, he's not violent for the sake of it, aka, he's not an unrepentant, run of the mill psychopath. He's a broken, hurting, deeply traumatized person who was trying to help these suffering children he has so much genuine compassion for in the only way he knew how. Do I agree with his methods? Hell no, but I don't need to in order to sympathize with him and understand where he was coming from and to desperately wish that things could have turned out differently for him. And I don't really see how Eunho being the main driving force behind Red Cry suddenly removes all sympathy from his situation and the situation of others like him, tbh. I don't think anyone with half a working heart or brain would look at this drama and come away only thinking, "Well, crap, an abused kid turned into a serial killer of abusive parents. SIGH, well, I suppose we should do something about those gosh-darned child abusers, or else all the kids will turn into serial killers, and we can't have that now, can we." Like, obviously that's not what the writer is trying to get across here? Eunho is meant to be an extreme example of what could possibly happen when someone is abused that badly for that long, it's true, but clearly, we're still meant to empathize with him. Just because he's done ill-advised things doesn't mean he's beyond saving or redemption. Even before anyone knew for sure who Red Cry was, I suspected that the person behind them was an abused child themselves, and expressed hope that if that was the case, then the show would still hold out the possibility of redemption to the character, without knowing anything about them or their situation. Now that I do know, that hope has only grown stronger. Now, if you personally happen to think that if the show continues as is right now and doesn't throw in any more big twists or reveals into the Red Cry plotline to show that some evil shadowy figure was controlling and manipulating him this whole time to do what he did, then that would make Eunho irredeemable and completely unsympathetic and renders the whole point of the drama moot, then of course you're free to think that. I vehemently, if respectfully, disagree with that interpretation, for the reasons outlined above and in other posts I've written, but, y'know. To each their own. And like I said, the possibility that there is something deeper behind the story that Eunho told to Wookyung is still open, not saying there aren't still twists and turns in store for us when it comes to the Red Cry storyline, and I'm completely open to that option being a plausible outcome in the next couple of episodes. I would be fine with it. But even if it turns out that this part of the drama is pretty much wrapped up at this point, that wouldn't change how I fundamentally feel about Eunho and his situation. But again, that's just me.
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