[Drama 2018] Mr. Sunshine, 미스터 션샤인 - Winner of Critics’ Choice Award for Drama category

[YongZura⁷]

Love last night's episode too especially the underlying meaning of words in the characters' dialogue. Even Kyle is being more poetic in talking to Eugene about what to do with the document.    Glad to see also that they are helping to save the girl's life.

 

The discussion of the interpretation of what the writer is trying to convey in the drama is what is interesting in this thread.

Unless one really understand the characters's background, one will be able to understand what they are really implying in their message.

55 minutes ago, 122am said:

 

Here's my interpretation of AS's words: "Although I can do it (aka kill you), I don't think you can (aka kill me)"

I was watching the rooftop scene closely. AS has many chances of shooting at DM. She did not. 

I believe it is because she knows him and will not shoot unnecessarily. Additional, somehow deep in her heart, she has a love-hate relationship with him.

As you have written it was not necessary to shoot him at that moment.  Well, hopefully there will not be a situation where she has to do it but who knows what the writer has in mind.  

 

Quote

Do you think EC was asked to be there by someone, or did he just wait every night until she arrived at the apothecary? 

 

It is interesting isn't it?  At first I thought he was asked to wait for her there meaning he was informed by someone to be there at that time.  But then she looked a little bit surprise to see him as though she was not expecting to see him that night.  EC and AS even said they thought they might "miss" each other, meaning their timing might not be right and to see her straight away hug him.. how she feel so safe  ... sigh and we have to wait for the next 6 days.

[Emily Wong]

I rewatched the last episode just in case I am missing something etc and I notice that Ae Shin was literally going back to the pharmacy so many times to wait for Eugene  same thing in that last scene too... if you notice, it looks like she was rather disappointed when she didn’t see anyone there but OMG, her eyes literally lit with yearning etc when she saw Eugene... I am totally shipping these two  who cares if they are 20 years apart in age! I initially watched this for Lee Byung Hun but totally staying for Kim Tae Ri now... girl crush hahaha... btw I was a bit surprised when show mentioned how Gunner Jang has actually been mentoring Ae Shin for 10 years??? Timeline is rather confusing... all this time, I thought she’s mastered the art of gunnery in a matter of months instead of years!!

 

Ae Shin pls hurry up and study until alphabet K! 

[tzupi]

1 hour ago, bedifferent said:

 

 

Question:  What do you think was going on in EC’s mind when he revealed the pawn note after he left the court?  He was conflicted prior and wanted to gauge the emperor’s character before making his decision. The interpreter changed his mind.

 

 

 

Thank you for your other points (I found them very illuminating, and I'm sorry to leave them out) and for asking this question. I was also wondering about it. I think EC was in a way open to a discussion when he went to see the emperor--he brought the document with him. But what I think changed his mind was the attitude of the emperor. The emperor's way of addressing Eugene as if he were a Joseon person/maybe subject opened Eugene's old wounds. It is as if Eugene was testing himself by going to see the emperor: can he bring himself to help Joseon? and he could not. Asking Eugene about his parents and assuming that he would be an aristocrat was also not helping the emperor's side. Eugene's reaction, on the other hand, was too personal, so too subjective. I think he understood this, so he confides with Kyle and after that, he tries to amend the situation by visiting the emperor's official. Kyle's advice to Eugene is always about keeping him on the right path: do not get revenge, try to heal your wounds, enjoy your life.

I see two main problems for Eugene in the future. First, the fact that he is an American soldier. Sometimes I'm wondering whether by his actions Eugene is not committing some kind of treason. and I think he also is concerned with this. For example, at the end of episode 7, Kyle told him that he needs to write a report about the geisha incident. Eugene was not very happy with this, probably because he understood that he would have to lie. At the beginning of the series, Eugene was avoiding ethical/political problems because he was just omitting facts. As the time passes and his involvement with AS progresses, things get murkier. Second, the fact that he was a slave. I am very curious how the scene in which he would finally tell AS about his parents is written.

 

8 hours ago, Susie Derkins said:

Can someone elaborate the conversation EC and AS were having please? All these double meanings and references. When EC said he was the one doing all the rowing, does that mean all his subtle hints of confessions towards Ae sin? Thank you in advance. 

1

I was taking it as a joke. As I remember, Eugene needed a boat to get to the potter; AS allowed him in the boat; because of that, Eugene got indebted to AS; but at the same time, he did all the rowing. So it was as if she took twice advantage of him: first, by putting him to do the rowing, next my making him indebted to her. 

[zba72]

I am very curious with Hina’s character.  Did she purposely tell EC to speak English at the palace to reveal pro-japanese officers who are working for the emperor? I would think because of her father she has the information of those who work for him or maybe what she knows from her guests.   I hope we will get to learn more about her in the coming episodes.

[tzupi]

5 minutes ago, zba72 said:

I am very curious with Hina’s character.  Did she purposely tell EC to speak English at the palace to reveal pro-japanese officers who are working for the emperor? I would think because of her father she has the information of those who work for him or maybe what she knows from her guests.   I hope we will get to learn more about her in the coming episodes.

While watching the scene when Hina got the letter from the emperor, I was asking myself whether she is the spy that the emperor's official was talking about a few episodes ago. People were speculating that the spy who had his eyes on Hina's father in Japan was AS's fiance. But after this episode, I was thinking that the spy might be Hina. (although I do not know: Hina is not in good relations with her father, so spying on him is kind of difficult, it would be better if the spy were close to her father.)

 

 

[Padjot Nguyen]

Hi everyone, I’ve been following this thread and just need to spare some thoughts about episode 8. This episode is the greatest so far. I now want to analyze why HS and DM are already out in the race to Aeshin’s heart. 

 

First, the conversation between EC and HS is like a slap in HS’s face. Up to now, I don’t know if he’s a Joseon undercover spy or not but I still see him as a brat who thinks he at least has a heart for poor slaves for trying to get rid of the watch his grandfather gave him using the money he got from exploiting his slaves. In his mind, he is better than his grandfather and is a pathetic nobleman who has to suffer from his ancestors’ sin. This and also the way he approaches Aeshin forms an image of a selfish brat. Remember he already has a girlfriend in Japan? He even didn’t want to go back for his marriage with Aeshin. But he had a change of heart! Why? Because Aeshin is beautiful? When Hina told him to be sincere to get Aeshin, he said he didn’t know how to be sincere with such short time, which means he hasn’t been in love with Aeshin and he still takes their marriage very lightly.

 

Second, Dong-mae and Eugene. Dong-mae had a hard life, but again he doesn’t try to make a better life for himself. This is the difference between DM and EC. Both came from lowly class and held hatred towards Joseon. However, EC grew up to become a decent man while DM took a darker path. This is not because EC was in America and DM was not. From the very young age, EC appeared to be a brilliant child who had strange thoughts (Aeshin’s grandpa was the scholar who asked little EC’s whereabouts when he’s in the woods) and always yearned for leading a good life (his mom said in her next life, EC would live in a big house). If it hadn’t been for his will, he would have ended up being a up-to-no-good gangster in the U.S. He tried to save his mom, he tried all ways to get to the US: begging and initiatively asking for help. Although he always thinks about revenge, his doings all speak out  “BE BETTER”. On the other hand, DM is full of hatred and sins. He got help from Aeshin but wasted her help. There’s a very interresting contradiction here. Eugene who doesn’t know a single Korean character grows to be a gentleman while DM who EC got envious for knowing Korean got his hands blood-colored.  I know that deep down, he sees Aeshin as a goddess and will do anything for her but in love, you love someone for who he is, not what he has done for you. DM’s wrongdoings are too many for Aeshin to accept. The first thing he did when coming back to Joseon was get revenge on the women who despised his family. Since then, what he has done is kill and kill while he’s living in Joseon, which is a disgrace in Aeshin’s eyes. This is what draws Aeshin to Eugene more. He’s a man who has just come back to Joseon after a long time but he helps many Joseon people. His attentions are unknown to her but at least, to her, this man does not harm her beloved Josean people. Let’s take the latest case of helping the Joseon spy to flee. I think Aeshin now hated DM not only for shooting her leg but also shooting a Joseon soldier who’s trying to help another Joseon girl. DM can’t get near to Aeshin because she does not feel safe when staying with him, that’s for sure, from their first encounter as kids till now. When EC knew AS got shot, he’s worried and came to the pharmacy right then. And what about DM? He just wanted to confirm the shooter was AS and didn’t seem to care about her health condition. From this aspect, he’s just selfish like HS. One more thing that helps EC wins AS’s heart over HS and DM is that EC showed respect for AS, what she always treasures, unlike DM and HS.

[meechuttso]

4 hours ago, Emily Wong said:

but totally staying for Kim Tae Ri now... girl crush hahaha... btw I was a bit surprised when show mentioned how Gunner Jang has actually been mentoring Ae Shin for 10 years??? Timeline is rather confusing... all this time, I thought she’s mastered the art of gunnery in a matter of months instead of years!!

 

Ae Shin pls hurry up and study until alphabet K! 

Your comments kind of sums it up for me - K for the 4 letter word, KILL, right? J/k.

Yea I was expecting maybe 5 years at most - so she was already a rebellious little girl who memorized and transcribed all of Confucius writings and convinced her Grandpa to turn her over to Gunner Jang as a mere teenager. More precocious than I had thought. More girl-crush. But I love that she is so helpless with the man of her unexpected dreams and ran into his arms just like that - Eugene ain't going back to no US of A no mo, no siree. Well he'll probably take Ae-Sin with him in the end, and she will come back to Jo-Seon, Korea, when it's all said and done, at a ripe old age with all her Korean-American grandkids.

1 hour ago, zba72 said:

I am very curious with Hina’s character.  Did she purposely tell EC to speak English at the palace to reveal pro-japanese officers who are working for the emperor? I would think because of her father she has the information of those who work for him or maybe what she knows from her guests.   I hope we will get to learn more about her in the coming episodes.

Yea I am hopeful that Hina, too, is a Joseon girl and will fight for her country than be like her old man The Traitor. But I see a pattern emerge here - everybody is a patriot at heart - it's just that they can't stand or are jealous of other fellow Jo-Seon people and will kill and collude and sell out their neighbor and countrymen for spite and inability to 'get along'? That'd be somewhat funny if it doesn't partly tell the actual story of what may have happened....

 

There are so many wonderful comments and thoughts and contributions and inspired art works and translation notes here, and wow, this thread definitely bringing out the very best of Soompiers - I only wish I had more time to read them all and reply. Special welcome, hats off to @cgwm808 for very nice translation on the OST - these songs are very special, need time to digest them all. Keep up the great labor of love, Chingoos.

 

[elfvanvan]

E is for Eugene, H is for Hugs i cant wait for letter K 

[fieza1871]

10 minutes ago, elfvanvan said:

E is for Eugene, H is for Hugs i cant wait for letter K 

E is for Eugene, L is for LOVE n M is for marriage...

[bebebisous33]

5 hours ago, bedifferent said:

 

I am not certain so maybe others can voice their opinions here.  I didn’t analyze in context of the lyrics.  The music box was something EC yearn for yet was out of reach. It was something beautiful and precious to him.  Ae Shin is the same, unattainable due to her nobility, his birthright and the current political situation.  When she walks in accompanying by the background music (this is one very rare time we get to hear BGM), it is as if the love he not dare or think will get to experience actually comes true.  She reciprocated his feelings.  Eugene was shook, arms at his side during the hug.  I love the transistion between the two scenes.

 

Question:  What do you think was going on in EC’s mind when he revealed the pawn note after he left the court?  He was conflicted prior and wanted to gauge the emperor’s character before making his decision. The interpreter changed his mind.

 

Also, now that DM know Ae Shin’s secret, what do you think DM will do?  He obviously wanted to test EC’s reactions and his involvement with the Righteous Army.  Doesn’t  seem like his loyalty is with the Japanese ministry or the Imperial Army.

DM is loyal to no one, only to money. Notice that he always wants to be paid first before doing the job. He always threatens people with money: if you don't pay, then I can find another client who will be willing to pay me more. This is connected to his childhood trauma, because his parents had done their job before getting paid which created a terrible situation which escalated to their deaths. It is a trauma to him, that's why he will ask AS if the Righteous Army pays well. In that case, he will join the group. I can understand why AS will be upset as DM has not understood what they are fighting for.

From the start, DM had no huge sense of justice. He can not distinguish what is right from wrong or better said, he tends to generalize. Actually he never expressed any gratitude. When AS helped him, he criticized her saying that she was just a noble fool who knew nothing about the harshness of life. Instead of thanking her, he hurt her. He judges her like all the other nobles. Besides, he didn't understand why his own mother would reject him in the first place. He never saw it as her way to protect him. He took as its face value: he was a burden and she wanted to get rid of him. This explains why after his return he almost killed everyone in his revenge. He put them all into the same basket. He wanted them to suffer like he did. EC is different as even when the American businessman kept pushing him away, he was still able to see that the man did his best to help him. He was thankful for the little help he received. That's why they are still in touch. Then after his arrival, he didn't rush to his former masters, but decided to travel the journey like he did in the past. Remembering the past opened his eyes: he realized that the slave hunters did spare him. EC didn't resent the potter for sending him away... he knew that he did it in order to save him. With DM, I feel, he is too superficial, emotional and more self-centered, whereas EC is more observant. As a child, he was already curious and observed things. That's why we have this scene where he looked at the sky and watched the black bird. Unlike DM, EC never hides anything from AS, GN or the others. EC was direct, when he said that he wanted to be in a relationship with her due to revenge and jealousy. Later, he told the geisha that he would only postpone the demise of Joseon. He doesn't act like a hero, full of patriotism and devoted to the cause. No, he is a realist, yet he is prepared for the worst... 

2 hours ago, zba72 said:

I am very curious with Hina’s character.  Did she purposely tell EC to speak English at the palace to reveal pro-japanese officers who are working for the emperor? I would think because of her father she has the information of those who work for him or maybe what she knows from her guests.   I hope we will get to learn more about her in the coming episodes.

HN is a double-agent. The letter she received was from a Japanese agent: the writing and the symbol are Japanese. Since she asked EC to speak in English, she wanted to ensure that the interpreter working for the Japanese would get caught. Her father is working for Japan that's why she could use him as her cover. Yet, since she lost everything due to her father (HER NAME was the most important thing to her as it came at last), it is clear that she hates her father but also Japan. I don't think that HN is working for Joseon Emperor either because if so, she could have given more info about EC to the minister.    

[enigmatic_zephy]

can someone explain the YYS-KTR scene?

 

when shooting, i got the feeling he didn't know who it was..

 

then i don't understand the dialogue ("i told you not to come").. where was he waiting and why he knew she would come?

lastly what did  he mean by "you knew"

[enigmatic_zephy]

37 minutes ago, bebebisous33 said:

DM is loyal to no one, only to money. Notice that he always wants to be paid first before doing the job. He always threatens people with money: if you don't pay, then I can find another client who will be willing to pay me more. This is connected to his childhood trauma, because his parents had done their job before getting paid which created a terrible situation which escalated to their deaths. It is a trauma to him, that's why he will ask AS if the Righteous Army pays well. In that case, he will join the group. I can understand why AS will be upset as DM has not understood what they are fighting for.

From the start, DM had no huge sense of justice. He can not distinguish what is right from wrong or better said, he tends to generalize. Actually he never expressed any gratitude. When AS helped him, he criticized her saying that she was just a noble fool who knew nothing about the harshness of life. Instead of thanking her, he hurt her. He judges her like all the other nobles. Besides, he didn't understand why his own mother would reject him in the first place. He never saw it as her way to protect him. He took as its face value: he was a burden and she wanted to get rid of him. This explains why after his return he almost killed everyone in his revenge. He put them all into the same basket. He wanted them to suffer like he did. EC is different as even when the American businessman kept pushing him away, he was still able to see that the man did his best to help him. He was thankful for the little help he received. That's why they are still in touch. Then after his arrival, he didn't rush to his former masters, but decided to travel the journey like he did in the past. Remembering the past opened his eyes: he realized that the slave hunters did spare him. EC didn't resent the potter for sending him away... he knew that he did it in order to save him. With DM, I feel, he is too superficial, emotional and more self-centered, whereas EC is more observant. As a child, he was already curious and observed things. That's why we have this scene where he looked at the sky and watched the black bird. Unlike DM, EC never hides anything from AS, GN or the others. EC was direct, when he said that he wanted to be in a relationship with her due to revenge and jealousy. Later, he told the geisha that he would only postpone the demise of Joseon. He doesn't act like a hero, full of patriotism and devoted to the cause. No, he is a realist, yet he is prepared for the worst... 

HN is a double-agent. The letter she received was from a Japanese agent: the writing and the symbol are Japanese. Since she asked EC to speak in English, she wanted to ensure that the interpreter working for the Japanese would get caught. Her father is working for Japan that's why she could use him as her cover. Yet, since she lost everything due to her father (HER NAME was the most important thing to her as it came at last), it is clear that she hates her father but also Japan. I don't think that HN is working for Joseon Emperor either because if so, she could have given more info about EC to the minister.    

DM Vs EC:

 

hmm.. i wonder, watching your mother get killed (rather suicide, and thank god for not knowing she was object of lust of some other man at that point in time) VS seeing your mother get raped almost every night.

 

Servants seem to be better off than butchers. Servants at least have a home , butchers look like pariahs

 

and although AS saved him, her eyes and the look she gives him is not so polite

 

 

 

[viktormani]

22 minutes ago, enigmatic_zephy said:

then i don't understand the dialogue ("i told you not to come").. where was he waiting and why he knew she would come?

lastly what did  he mean by "you knew"

He definitely saw that it was her as you can tell when he was aiming the gun at the head/torso but as soon as he saw/felt that it was her he lowered the gun and shot her in the leg. However he wasn’t totally sure it was her either but when she came to the train station it confirmed that it was indeed her that he shot (him saying i told you not to come is because he didn’t want it to be her). The last sentence he said “you knew” is because AS knows that he loves her, the dialogue between them when she says he wouldn’t be able to kill her but she could kill him is a statement from her that she knows he loves her but also for him to know that she doesn’t love him and will be able to kill him. 

[bebebisous33]

37 minutes ago, enigmatic_zephy said:

DM Vs EC:

 

hmm.. i wonder, watching your mother get killed (rather suicide, and thank god for not knowing she was object of lust of some other man at that point in time) VS seeing your mother get raped almost every night.

 

Servants seem to be better off than butchers. Servants at least have a home , butchers look like pariahs

 

and although AS saved him, her eyes and the look she gives him is not so polite

 

 

 

She wasn't raped every night. The rape was just a payback for her behavior, when she asked for the money. Moreover, his mother had killed a man hence they got lynched. This lynch justice happened because there were no authorities. AS was a just a noble young girl and as such, she couldn't intervene. 

 

EC's parents had a worse situation as they had no rights at all. They could get sold and separated... Since she was married, the grandfather had to find a scheme in order to get rid of the husband. If he had given her to the Minister without the husband and child, he would have upset all the other slaves and given a bad image of himself. Since his slaves ran away, he had a reason to kill the father. That way, no one would ever criticize him for his verdict. 

[rubie]

From Do Mi/Ko Woo Rim's IG

 

 

[YongZura⁷]

1 hour ago, fieza1871 said:

E is for Eugene, L is for LOVE n M is for marriage...

 

 Everyone is learning the ABC again.... ha ha.  At the moment she knows the alphabet song already but need to learn to recognise all the letters.  So AS has learnt A, B, C, D, E, F for the first set.  Then she learnt G, H, I, J, K and L for the second set this week.  That means in the next episode she will learn about the letter M. 

 

[The scene when she realised the meaning of love is always fun when I watch it again.  I was wondering why didn't the girl translate it to "Sarang" in the beginning when she told her about the word love before.  But then we will not be able to see this funny scene] 

[enigmatic_zephy]

1 hour ago, bebebisous33 said:

She wasn't raped every night. The rape was just a payback for her behavior, when she asked for the money. Moreover, his mother had killed a man hence they got lynched. This lynch justice happened because there were no authorities. AS was a just a noble young girl and as such, she couldn't intervene. 

 

EC's parents had a worse situation as they had no rights at all. They could get sold and separated... Since she was married, the grandfather had to find a scheme in order to get rid of the husband. If he had given her to the Minister without the husband and child, he would have upset all the other slaves and given a bad image of himself. Since his slaves ran away, he had a reason to kill the father. That way, no one would ever criticize him for his verdict. 

rather the sense i got was that this happened often, dad did nothing to save his wife. that's the life butchers were relegated to.. maybe those who have watched other shows can tell better if this is one off case or this happened often

 

yup, you would kill if you are being treated inhumanly, and getting raped.. EC's mom did the same.. until they killed her husband so she had to die because she realized she's be raped soon

 

****

Based on other historical shows, that doesn't seem to be the case.. servants weren't separated or sold just like that. If a merchant had to lose his servants, he would lose all.. servants were more like elfs of potterworld. SFD and similar shows repeatedly put that in context.. if master was killed, all servants were killed, the selling didn't happen as often.. ofcourse people with better insight can add context of what it really is like

 

**********

. he himself said it and confirmed.. he was going to give her away to that man for a night or otherwise, he was beating up the husband for the same reason because he wanted to give away the woman and concocted that plan.. so you see servants did have better.. he had to think about bad image in servants case, in butchers case.. none of that

[enigmatic_zephy]

1 hour ago, viktormani said:

He definitely saw that it was her as you can tell when he was aiming the gun at the head/torso but as soon as he saw/felt that it was her he lowered the gun and shot her in the leg. However he wasn’t totally sure it was her either but when she came to the train station it confirmed that it was indeed her that he shot (him saying i told you not to come is because he didn’t want it to be her). The last sentence he said “you knew” is because AS knows that he loves her, the dialogue between them when she says he wouldn’t be able to kill her but she could kill him is a statement from her that she knows he loves her but also for him to know that she doesn’t love him and will be able to kill him. 

she knows he loves her?

that was hard.. and in that case i don't understand her behavior towards her.. this kind of proves my initial theory about her.. for all the talk, she does care about caste.. she always has.. and most of being nice to lowly ones is to pretend (for herself in her mind maintaining her image.. not for others) her being "different" from other nobles

 

because, i could understand her disliking and fearing or even disgust towards the boy she saved.. but then to tell him she gave the "look" because he is not helping the country is such a fake statement..

 

and ultimatley, what reason does he have to wish good upon joseon? unlike her.. princess of the nation

 

sad!

[scarletlover1]

DM has some guts though. He's got some guts. Every time I feel like I have him figured out and then realize I don't have him figured out. I remember that scene from the trailer, we heard the gunshot but the scene turned black. I was thinking that like he's was ordered to kill her and as soon as he realized it was her, he shot but missed on purpose to make his superior or whatever think that he did kill her when he really didn't. But turns out that wasn't the case! AS had plenty of opportunities to shoot DM but she didn't do it. However he shoots her when he knows it her... And you don't even check to make sure she's alright?! You have disrespected her three times then you shoot her! What else are you going to do? DM you lost some points. #SorryNotSorry, you brought that upon yourself... Every time I think about it, I still can't believe he did it.

[mistymorning]

7 hours ago, zba72 said:

I am very curious with Hina’s character.  Did she purposely tell EC to speak English at the palace to reveal pro-japanese officers who are working for the emperor? I would think because of her father she has the information of those who work for him or maybe what she knows from her guests.   I hope we will get to learn more about her in the coming episodes.

 

She said this time, she's giving right key to EC. Which is to speak English in the court to use interpreter - hence he can see japan power presence in the court - so far Hina hadn't seen her father for 10 years(about?) so probably that information is from observing guests in the hotel. From the scene Hina was burning the letter( with a sort of Korean Emperor's agent stamp) asking for EC to the court, Hina's definitely agent for Korea, but obviously not simple and prob. double agent too. Because she didn't say anything about interpreter to King.