[Drama 2020] The King: Eternal Monarch, 더 킹: 영원의 군주

[Yippeun_eonnie]

22 minutes ago, AgentQuake said:

I took it as she was concerned that her MOM might be replaced.  Because mackerel will confirm her mother's identity, not her own.  LL might be threatening to take out her mother if they don't work together.

 

Ah you are right... 

 

@Prettysup I guess its from the gas leak explosion

[blobbityblobbityblob]

20 minutes ago, AgentQuake said:

Here's why I ask - JTE is dead on the floor right now (finally we got that right).  There's no way LG is going to be sprinting through the streets to find her and crush the rest of her blood and possibly her liver out of the hole in her side right now.  So that intense hug is going to be happening at a later time.  Side note: with their wonky last scene crap, maybe it's possible that LG already found her before she got stabbed, and we'll see scenes in reverse order again.  In which case we now have an entire army of failures who could've helped her not get pokey pokeyed. 

Wait I'm confused why would JTE be dead? If she's dead from that stab wound (GAHH LUNA GO AWAY) then why do we get the whole like idk hospital sequence seen in the ep 15 preview

And also I'm a loser but I'm not really convinced... Did I miss something? Can someone explain like how would LJH be alive and by JTE in ep 16? Since right now LJH is already dead right? Based on LG's payphone call or did I misread subtitles :L So if right now LJH is actually dead but later on we see JTE seeing LJH then that means someone had to go back in time again and alter things... So 2nd saviour? .o. 

[SweetButters]

2 hours ago, Dramafreak said:

In case you decide to type why and how it applied to TKEM then please tag me.

 

I am hoping that at some point you are tempted

@Dramafreak

So you got three different philosophical views of what time is :

 

1) Presentatism:  

• View that only the present is real, the past and future aren't real
• Ex: Its our everyday way of thinking of the world
• We see the present moment as real, the past is a but a memory, and the future is a prediction

2) Possiblism:

• Mixture of presentism and eternalism
• View that events which occur in the past or present exist, but those in the future are not real

3) Eternalism:

• There is no distinction between past, present, and future, all are equally real

So if you look at the way the show started, which is the "present" (ep1 interrogation scene) and then we go back to the "past"  where a bunch of things happen. From there we as the viewers try to make all kinds theories/predictions to fill in the gaps of events that lead to from our view the "future" just shows how much we as the viewers are a byproduct of this very same presentist view. This presentist view is what also leads us the viewers to debate whether or not there's just one timeline or multiple timelines or multiple worlds etc and which one of them is going to be the "real" one.

 

Thats why I was trying to caution everyone to think of how each character in the story views time. For example, in ep10, JTE sees LG and she perceives him as "future" LG with her presentist view. How then would that LG see her? Would he see her with presentist, possiblist, or eternalist view? Additionally, it brings up, how do we see that LG? 

 

There are multiple observers in TKEM from us the viewers to each character. Every moment is relative. From our eyes, we may see certain events as in the past, present, or future while from the eyes of each character they may see it as their past and present. 

 

And all of what is going on in the show should force us to then question, what is time? Time is what a clock measures and we live in a world where there are clocks everywhere. For us, its not only important that time passes, but exactly how much time as passed. We have become obsessed with time from what time so and so happens in TKEM to what date it happens on. So if we let go of the notion of time, we can see every moment as equally real. Again this is just a very short post, imagine if I had written my whole post lol. 

[Elnin Joery]

42 minutes ago, gwin said:

OK.  I slept on it.  Re-watched it.   

 

 

I will answer you questions half and half. You made it to long unfortunately to cover it with one post. Everything is happening simple but your mind can't comprehend but I will give you easy explaination

 

1. Yes you need the whole flute to conduct time-travel back and forth - LG-LR were both inside the Inbetween which makes the flute whole and time-travel possible.. They both went back to 94! LR died! LG stayed 4 months in the inbetween to return back. he could travel forward with the whole flute but he didn't have it in 94 only half.

 

2. Harry potter has one of the worst Time travel theory. There are multiple acclaimed movies that due it better then HP. The theory in HP of seeing yourselves being problematic is in all essence good night story for children. In the world of science that dosen't make sense whatsoever. The time travel used in TKEM is more in line with realistic time travel but with slight fiction but it's closest. Nothing happens to his body imo it should get buried but one thing to also keep in mind is that this is the first time LR time travelled back to the past in 94 while it's LG's second time which means LG had the whole flute on his first journey back but half on the second time. In this timeline LR dosen't need to fake it as his future body is there. 

 

3. In the timeline after that LR would know that he killed himself in 94 and likely won't travel back to that night on 94 in fear of it happening again. 

 

4. It's not just a casual loop it's a timeloop. I left a layman introduction to Timeloop and time-travel if you backtrack 2-3 pages. There is no inconsistency everything is happening accordingly. If something is changed in the past it takes hold and becomes the future. This is what it happens when time is altered and this is what is creating the memory change example LG said something to young JTE in 94 but that slightly changed the past and it took hold and became part of the present and future. 

 

5. 94 LR is alive and has half of the flute which means his technically alive and won't likely fall on the same trap by going back warning himself because he knows that he killed himself in this timeline. 

 

 

 

[Dramanoona]

One thing I really admire about KES's writing.

She is skilful in weaving the story together. You have to pick at the threads and you may not know where you end up, but there is a definite end.

So we ponder, if 2020 LR had not gone back, would the greed for the flute have ended up with such drastic outcomes in 1994?

*Back to watching the scene where LG saves himself*

[Goong_admirer]

4 minutes ago, SweetButters said:

@Dramafreak

So you got three different philosophical views of what time is :

 

1) Presentatism:  

• View that only the present is real, the past and future aren't real
• Ex: Its our everyday way of thinking of the world
• We see the present moment as real, the past is a but a memory, and the future is a prediction

2) Possiblism:

• Mixture of presentism and eternalism
• View that events which occur in the past or present exist, but those in the future are not real

3) Eternalism:

• There is no distinction between past, present, and future, all are equally real

So if you look at the way the show started, which is the "present" (ep1 interrogation scene) and then we go back to the "past"  where a bunch of things happen. From there we as the viewers try to make all kinds theories/predictions to fill in the gaps of events that lead to from our view the "future" just shows how much we as the viewers are a byproduct of this very same presentist view. Then we debate whether if there's going to be multiple timelines or just one timeline that's going to be "real". This presentist view is what also leads us the viewers to debate whether or not there's just one timeline or multiple timelines or multiple worlds etc and which one of them is going to be the "real" one.

 

Thats why I was trying to caution everyone to think of how each character in the story views time. For example, in ep10, JTE sees LG and she perceives him as "future" LG with her presentist view. How then would that LG see her? Would he see her with presentist, possiblist, or eternalist view? Additionally, it brings up, how do we see that LG? 

 

There are multiple observers in TKEM from us the viewers to each character. Every moment is relative. From our eyes, we may see certain events as in the past, present, or future while from the eyes of each character they may see it as their past and present. 

 

And all of what is going on in the show should force us to then question, what is time? Time is what a clock measures and we live in a world where there are clocks everywhere. For us, its not only important that time passes, but exactly how much time as passed. We have become obsessed with time from what time so and so happens in TKEM to what date it happens on. So if we let go of the notion of time, we can see every moment as equally real. Again this is just a very short post, imagine if I had written my whole post lol. 

From my romanticist heart, LG would be eternalist because he loves future JTE (before he met her in ROK) and present and past JTE (as presented in time points he visited her). JTE now is closely eternalists too, if she can forgo the disconnection that she felt in ep 10 when future LG came and gave her the flowers. Arghhh i love both of them to pieces!

PS: and i love you tooo! Been lurking for months now admiring every single post you write with conviction.

[Wanderer062287]

35 minutes ago, gwin said:

EDIT:   Another loophole that hasn't been addressed--- so 2020 LG will be gone from KOC for 4 months?!?  How can he be gone that long?

 

All I can say is yes to this. I need an explanation for this too ahahahahaha

[AgentQuake]

14 minutes ago, Goong_admirer said:

 

Now that you say it, the show kinda lose it here too. In HP for example, which is quite similar approach to TKEM, when harry and hermione vanishes in front of ron and show up seconds later at the other end of the room, it was because they travelled back safely. If LL died and thus didn't travel back, his body would be stuck in 94 isn't it? 

Technically they didn’t vanish, they went BACK in time to save Buckbeak and Sirius.  Those moments start looping but the original timeline Harry and Hermione continued on after they got back.

[briseis]

8 hours ago, Emmy Nur'aenny said:

Why it will be only a few days or a week at most since he left?? 

I thought he 'lost' about 4 months.. Because he came from 1994..and stay in "in between" place for 4 months and back to taeul. 

So tae eul didn't see him about 4 months. 

Is not?? 

Lee Gon’s Time Traveler’s Guide

TE and Gon are from different worlds (they are at different points on the space axis unless they cross the gate) but the time there is the same (they are at the same point on the time axis). It doesn't matter whether Gon is in the Kingdom, TE in the Republic or whether they are together in one of the worlds - it's always the same date for them. 

I'm not entirely sure on which date Lee Gon time traveled but let's say he went back in time on April 13, 2020. On this day, LG travels 26 years back in time = he and TE are no longer at the same point on the time axis. Lee Gon gets sort of stuck there = he can't go back in an instant, that is, by simply crossing the two gates, because he needs both halves of the flute to allow him to travel foward on the time axis in one go. That option is no longer possible.

Spoiler

 

However, he can still travel on the space axis, that is, between the worlds. And here comes THE LOOPHOLE - the gateway is a place where the time is frozen. Thus, when in there, the time barely flows for Lee Gon, while the time in both worlds outside is literally flying and passing him by. The time flows differently in the gateway/in-between - those 4 months is the amount of time which it means for him and him alone.

Spoiler

 

Lee Gon needs to breach the distance of the 26 years on the time axis and get to the same place where TE is = April 13, 2020 - and it's really good to consider it as a distance rather than time as it’s easier to imagine and even Lee Gon refers to it as “being on his way” to Tae Eul.

Spoiler

 

The more time he spends in the land of frozen time, the closer he gets to April 13, 2020.

Spoiler

 

He comes out very rarely, only to check what time it is outside because crossing the gate too many times makes the flute fall apart more, plus the time he spends outside makes calculating the time difference and time flow more difficult.

Spoiler

 

You need to realize that Gon is counting all the time difference by himself, using only his memory - he doesn't have a pen or paper, or his trusty white chalk and blackboard nor his phone, which he left with Yeong. HE'S BASICALLY LOST IN TIME, COMPLETELY ALONE, WITHOUT TONY'S STARK'S GPS, and the only way he can use to orient himself in it are his math abilities, memories of TE and rarely leaving the gate for few moments to confirm his calculations. Tae Eul really is the beacon who leads him home and prevents him from getting lost forever.

Spoiler

 

I think Gon's original plan is to go back/foward to the day when he left - April 13, 2020 - but because he's been stuck there for so long, he can't really make notes and sometimes he forgets himself while visiting TE to keep his sanity and plant those new memories, there is a slight error in his calculations. This is not the first time Lee Gon loses count of the time he spent there: the very same thing occured in episode 10 when he was exploring the in-between.

Spoiler

 

And this very error is most likely the reason why he will come out only several days later after "April 13, 2020".

Spoiler

 

[AgentQuake]

12 minutes ago, blobbityblobbityblob said:

Wait I'm confused why would JTE be dead? If she's dead from that stab wound (GAHH LUNA GO AWAY) then why do we get the whole like idk hospital sequence seen in the ep 15 preview

And also I'm a loser but I'm not really convinced... Did I miss something? Can someone explain like how would LJH be alive and by JTE in ep 16? Since right now LJH is already dead right? Based on LG's payphone call or did I misread subtitles :L So if right now LJH is actually dead but later on we see JTE seeing LJH then that means someone had to go back in time again and alter things... So 2nd saviour? .o. 

No she isn’t dead haha, it’s been like six different spoilers showing her dead in the road so I keep having virtual funerals for her and she keeps popping back to life

 

this one is the closest she’s come to actually being dead on the road so I’m calling my theory a win 

[SweetButters]

44 minutes ago, Goong_admirer said:

We definitely need quaternion visualization on this, haha.

 

The writer kinda get it close to how it should look like when you try to manipulate numbers in 4d space though. Everything is reorientated (in this case to 180 degrees from 2d perspective looking from the x-axis) when both of them is in the in-between space. Although to be specific, it can be other angles as well depending on how fast/slow you're going

@Goong_admirer Yea with the amount of thinking I've been doing for TKEM, both my xray vision and brain have spun out of this world and exploded into so many pieces I don't even know what's real anymore. I can't even communicate my thoughts in a manner that makes sense to anyone right now . 

 

 

p.s thanks for liking my posts haha I try to make difficult concepts understandable in the simplest ways, but often times I struggle to explain what im trying to convey (guess this is why the students I TA for say I'm the worst TA they've ever had )

[blobbityblobbityblob]

6 minutes ago, AgentQuake said:

No she isn’t dead haha, it’s been like six different spoilers showing her dead in the road so I keep having virtual funerals for her and she keeps popping back to life

 

this one is the closest she’s come to actually being dead on the road so I’m calling my theory a win 

You've been out to kill her since forever HAHA

[gwin]

22 minutes ago, Goong_admirer said:

 

Now that you say it, the show kinda lose it here too. In HP for example, which is quite similar approach to TKEM, when harry and hermione vanishes in front of ron and show up seconds later at the other end of the room, it was because they travelled back safely. If LL died and thus didn't travel back, his body would be stuck in 94 isn't it? 

 

That's the thing:  We don't know that TKEM has the similar approach to HP.  Until that point where LG spoke to JTE in 2016, it was still consistent with the HP example.

 

But in this case, if this is still the HP type of time travel:    LL shouldn't be back in 2020.   LG will be back.

[Wanderer062287]

10 minutes ago, briseis said:

And this very error is most likely the reason why he will come out only several days later after "April 13, 2020".

 

Pardon me huhu I really love your explanation but my question is still: does this mean that by the time LG makes it back to the present, he will have already been gone for 4 months? As @gwin mentioned, as a King how can he be gone for four months?

 

I don't even want to start with the complications that can result to 1994 LL's killing of his 2020 self. I mean this changes a looooooooooooot lot looooooot of things.

 

I am seriously gonna get traumatized by this drama. I don't think I can ever watch a normal drama again without overthinking every single thing.

[Goong_admirer]

3 minutes ago, AgentQuake said:

Technically they didn’t vanish, they went BACK in time to save Buckbeak and Sirius.  Those moments start looping but the original timeline Harry and Hermione continued on after they got back.

 

I mean they did 'vanish' and 'reappear' from ron POV, right? Although we as the viewers know that they traveled back in time. So technically, if say person A saw LL about to enter the obelisk from KoC to go in and return back to KoC without going to RoK (then time would freeze and unfreeze),  but he will 'reappear' from the obelisk as if nothing happens from person A's POV. But if he didn't return, it will appear as if he 'vanishes' right? (Ohhhh my head ). 

[AgentQuake]

Just now, blobbityblobbityblob said:

You've been out to kill her since forever HAHA

SERIOUSLY THO 

I was so convinced I had it

Shin Jae is the black sheep and will go with LG

JTE’s death will prompt LG to go back

We start over with new LG/JTE who will get their memories back

 

KES TRICKED ME 

SHE TRICKED ME WITH A STUPID PAIR OF SHOES

[Heretorant]

11 hours ago, mingomingo said:

i still don't get it for this eps, so Lee Rim was died? so in the present of tae eul and lee gon, there's no Lee Rim anymore?? plase someone help me with the concept of this drama i understood all the story untul eps 13 but in this eps 14....... i lost my mind JEBAL HELP ME

Let me tell you one thing: I will be very surprised if that’s the last we see of him. LR may have gone back and died by his own hands BUT he also left his past self with one new memory that will change his actions in the future. If you ask me, he will not travel back in time to meet himself again because he knows the outcome. 

 

10 hours ago, natadecoco said:

Omg im lost. So LG is went to the past and cant go back to the present?

So he stays inside the gate while waiting until.2020?

And he tried to change JTE memories by giving clues?

Mannn im so confused. Can somebody enlighten me?

You got it!

 

I’d like to add: he’s not just changing her memories, he’s sending her messages to let her know he’s on his way back to her. He’s such a romantic guy. He knows she’ll be worried so he’s assuring her he’s ok and will be there soon. 

 

 

10 hours ago, scrawford said:

I’m in the middle of work, and haven’t seems the new episode yet ..... but looks like I’m a winner?!?!!!  I knew it!!! I feel it since episode 1. 

 

Is it good guys? Is it mind glowingly confusing? Or good mindblowing?

 

How is our OTP? are they cute? hehehe

What kind of question is that? 
 

 

Of course they’re cute! Only the cutest couple in the world! 

 

9 hours ago, AgentQuake said:

And why did LL's half of the flute vanish in like, 3 minutes, but LG's flute didn't until later? 

My explanation is here.

 

1 hour ago, btsunflower said:

 

OMGGG @Heretorant I am fangirling. I've been following your posts on here & on the shippers page LOLOL love all your analysis here & there in our delulu land   

 

but YESSS. I agree with you 10000%. I especially love what you said in the highlighted portion. That really connected what I've been trying to process this entire day. I'm guessing we're gonna be catching up to the "future LG" tmrw since coat of doom makes its appearance again in ep 15 preview  dundundun

 

**edit: almost forgot but I AM A LOSER 

Ma friend, you’re making me blush. Who am I? The Lee Min Ho? Kim Go Eun? Woo Do Hwan? 

 

Sec Mo, here, is flattered knowing someone enjoys reading her posts. Thank you 

[Dramanoona]

As he goes through time, he is building memories for her.

[ck1Oz]

@Time loopgotcha. I don't watch any of the dramas you mentioned. I watch procedural and rom com. Thank you for the clarification.

 

Thing to note- I generally appreciate being told to back track, or where I missed a point, or go back 5 pages, or pointed out it has been discussed.

 

So thank you for clarifying the genre you generally watch. I understand complex world building because I follow multi-- book sci fic books. However this is a 16 episode drama. Once I read stories like this they are generally books that span a minimum of 5 to 15 or more in a series. Complex world building or theories etc genre. Hard to build in any strong feelings for a main couple then reel in viewers for their secondary characters. Yet flesh out 2 worlds- double characters- and get the little " a- ha light build moment " into 16 hours. Its either story. Or characters. But usually doesn't work well with lack of time fleshing out both.

 

Wasn't expecting it for a Lee Minho comeback track and also having watched all of the writer's previous works. However     " can't read " sounds vastly more insulting than " please read/ backtrack or yes watch episode 13 and 14 and it will make sense to you. "

 

I generally don't continue these sort of discussions on soompi as it drags the mood down. So let's go your way and I will go my own way/interpretation of what this drama means to me.

 

On the other hand that probably explains why I didn't watch the other dramas you watch. So have a good time with episode 15 and 16 theorizing why the writer had such scenes.

[CallieP]

I lost, I actually always thought it was just LG but I listened to my fellow Monarchs and believed the two pairs of shoes theory. I thought unbreakable sword was the more likely person. Okay Maximus horse shoe.

 

What I can deduce about the flute?  When old LR was killed, the flute disintegrated but young LR would get the flute after hurting young LG. The flute would be in LR's possession again and if LR decides not to go and visit his young self, he would still be alive. However, after he was killed his flute is gone so half the flute has vanished.

 

As for LG, he has the original flute, but it is disintegrating  as he moves from year to year and he believes he needs to get back to 2020 before it vanishes forever. He said he had a short window of time where he has to return to that exact moment. I think if he misses it, there would be two LG's . Like he saw himself as a child in 2020 and if he had looked on the day of the rowing competition, he would see the other LG winning the race.  He had to return at that exact moment  to get to present day, that means he has to return on the day he left to rescue his young self. He has to return that exact day or later. If he missed and returned a day too early, the other LG would be around. If he does not return before his flute disintegrates then he will be stuck in that year. Very stressful for him.  My question is " When the two flutes disintegrates and LR is dead, LG will remain in that world whether KOC or ROK, he would not be able to return to the other universe. He would be stuck in ROK with JTE or in ROK separated forever and JY would be stuck in ROK with JTE and ES???  That is one theory.  YoYo boy is the flute. He will be whole but the flute would not be in the possession of LG and future kings and it will be somewhere hidden forever. 

 

However  LG calculates he will be in the in-between world for a few days but 4 months away from the real world so he should return 4 months after leaving to rescue Young LG.  KOC should be panicking a missing LG as someone commented earlier. LG would not be smelly as he was away only a few days in the in-between world but 4 months in the real world. Few days would not make LG smell that badly . T

 

The painting is completed so what what the red paint omen that Lady Noh did not like?  LG is not dead or wounded.

 

BUT WAIT what about the time when JTE and the detectives interviewed the arrested LR.  It has to be at a later date right, since it has not yet happened in 2020  but then  LR is already  killed by his younger self ?????  Two episodes left, how do they answer these mysteries???

 

Need clarificaton!