[Drama 2020/2021] Queen Cheorin/Mr. Queen, 철인왕후

[xprosperity]

59 minutes ago, realistic2280a said:

Even the palace maids were scared of her... and i doubt it was made up? Mind you, between her selection and wedding as the queen, wasnt that long and Bong Wan took over her body before she became the queen, so we shall see if she was really mean inbetween?

 

Based on the first episode, SY worked hard to be top of the queen selection and was willing to leave if she didnt find the king attractive, so it was doubtful if she managed to turn bad in a span of a week, maybe?

 

But perhaps, after she got upset with the King and Concubine Jo, after seeing their affection together? Hmmm

 

Ok, im not sure why the bashing over the ending.. even Bong Wan wasnt mad about it, he just wanted the King to be alive be happy and rule justly... why do people want BW to be trapped in the body and his other body lying to rot on the hospital bed? I mean, seriously? SY still have some BW's characreristics (mostly great cooking skills and rudeness?), which might not be dominant now, but she still have some pieces of it (the confrontation with the Old queen)

 

On the question of what BW received at the end of this adventure? A lesson in history; a great trip down in 200 years old Korea; be part of of the palace politics, and king! which one only see in dramas; feels how to be a woman rather than a man, him being a playboy and all; a big lesson to him hopefully and he will treat woman better in the future? Hahahha...

 

My only complaint over the drama is over its length, should have been 16 episodes instead of 20... and now we have the Bamboo Forest episodes t

I think So-yong was mean to many maids and servants because she wanted out. She hated the palace politics and the fact that the GQD threatened her to monitor her husband and to stay in the palace. In a few episodes, it was shown that SY didn't want to monitor CJ because SY truly loved him so SY wanted out and out of Kim clan's control.

 

I agree with you... BH got a lot more than he asked for. Changed history, got a King, brought new vocabulary and really changed for the better when he went back to the future.

 

I am just gonna take the drama as is since both characters were portrayed by SHS lol. I'm just gonna take this as a sageuk love story between SHS and KJH and enjoy their chemistry for what it is. I wouldn't complain if I heard "YA. CHEOLJONG-AH" a few more times, those were hilarious. Is anyone taking the Bamboo Forest second episode as a better ending than the actual drama? I feel like that 2nd episode was set in the same timeline where Sobong didn't leave (since KBI wasn't there at the end when the firework went off).

[skinnyjeans]

2 hours ago, Maliah said:

I really need to stop being so emotionally invested in drama characters. It never ends well. 

I second you. 

I had been in this situation before (Mr. Sunshine), but I think this one is little bit harder for me to really accept it. 

 

Maybe some people think that we are overreacting, they probably won't understand that we really invested our mind and heart not only into the main actor and actress whose acting skill are outstanding, but also to the story. And the problem is, we had high expectation on the story. 

 

There are flaws and loopholes in the screenwriting which even the Extra series (Secret Bamboo Forest) can't really cover it. I think that's what we all have to admit, even though some are satisfied with the ending. 

 

I try to find the closure, by reading some of the arguments of why the ending makes sense. I'm trying to be open with it. It's just a drama afterall, right.. 

 

However, KJH's answer last night then remind me something of what true love or marriage is and what we missed:

 

"It doesn't matter whose soul in the body,  what matters is how cheoljong chose how to see So Yong from his perspective and fell in love with her that way"

 

Human is the most dynamic creature in this universe. People change. And in the marriage we'll see things that we don't see while we are dating, and we'll see many many parts of our spouse that are hidden before. And accepting our spouse for what she/he is, regardless the changes, is what I think true love. Loving you as you are, no matter how crazy, weird, unstable, inconsistent, and imperfect you are. I once watched this documentary about a married couple whose spouse is having multiple/dissociative personality disorder, she has not only two different personalities, but more,  and her husband accepts and loves her as she is and take care of her.

 

So CJ must realize the changes of SY, but all this long he only sees SY as SY who is weird since they were kids and even weirder when she is grown up, he doesn't see SB, he sees SY that way and accepts and loves her as she is.

 

I think it'll be a closure for me, regardless the loopholes here and there in the screenwriting. But yeah, I need to move on. 

 

And I'm so happy that Kim Jung Hyun as Cheoljong got recognition he deserves (his IG followers now is finally reach 1M from only about 250k in the beginning of Mr. Queen!). Shin Hye Sun, no doubt she is brilliant actress, both are talented and like piece of puzzle they fit to each other, complete each other and we could see their awesome dynamics and amazing chemistry on screen. 

 

I will definitely watch their other work in the future. 

 

[Nymeria289]

Looks like, lots of disappointed people all around. I get it but I was prepared for this. Despite having slightly more LGBTQ friendly law, South Korea remains a deeply conservative country that still doesn't openly accept or embrace this community. I knew there was always a chance, they would end it without addressing the reality of what is being shown. I hoped they'd be brave but given the initial controversy, I kind of knew they are not ginna risk it. Its fine if you are disappointed and I'd be lying if I say that I'm 100% happy. This feels like Coffee Prince all over again. Those who have seen it would probably remember it. But I am just glad to see the characters get a happy ending. I am also immensely happy with the actors who gave it their 150% and did take a huge risk with this project. I do think the team had its heart in the right place....they just didn't have the strength to carry it through but I'd say they tried their best.

[yumeaki]

6 hours ago, Rae said:

Source Cosmopolitan magazine 10/14/20, 

 

"the truth about love at first sight

Having a super-intense reaction when meeting someone for the first time is not just a figment of your imagination. “That very strong electrical feeling that people say they have—that’s very much possible,” says Niloo Dardashti, PhD, a psychologist and relationship expert in New York City. However, it’s not exactly what you would call love.

“With love, we’re talking about things like intimacy, tolerating somebody’s flaws, seeing them as a whole person and still liking them, and so on. That’s a lot of stuff that generally doesn’t happen in the first moment you look at someone,” explains Dardashti.

What you’re actually feeling is really just a result of having a strong attraction to the person. “But then, you’re attaching all these attributes to that feeling like, ‘This is meant to be. This is love at first sight. This is something inexplicable. It felt electric, and therefore, it must be love,’” Dardashti explains.

Don’t get too bummed though. This strong, instantaneous connection you have with this person may eventually manifest into real love. "

 

ENOUGH WITH THIS LOVE AT FIRST-SIGHT, it doesn't exist.  You can have intense reactions to so someone , you need to have a relationship for long lasting love.  

CJ had an intense reaction to SY

CJ had  potential for a long lasting love with SB

He can have long lasting love with SY, that should be base on honesty, trust and  SY taking credit for SB hard work isn't a good start. I found plenty for fan fiction online so. I am moving on. 

FYI, I never expected a BL ending for Mr. Queen.  BH without So Yong's memories is a bromance.  SY memories and BH 's  soul created SB. If  SY had been my active participated and not a bystander. I need a reason to care SY see the character development. 

My never going to happen endings

SB willing choose his life with CJ. 

 BH wanting to be with CJ even as a man in future. In SK, not happening 

My happy satisfyingly end would be 

BH and SY agree to go back to their lives, she thanks him for his assistance.  SY is now more empower woman who can stand by CJ as an strong queen,  we saw a lit bit with GDQ.  She shouldn't be this submissive woman in the present of her husband. BH's soul was  insider for months you didn't  learn a something.  SY should be honest with her husband, that she has come back and no longer has BH soul inside of her. So she can have her long lasting love, without  a shadow of BH.   BH finds his soul mate and we see possibilities for his happy ending. 

This! 

Same, not expecting a BL ending and even when BH returns to present time, I can interpret his expression reading the history of the king like a buddy/bff reaction. I would like to see your happy satisfying end too. 

 

 

3 hours ago, realistic2280a said:

@yumeaki.. perhaps Ni wen's explaintation is the right one...

 

But if i remember correctly, even the palace maids were scared of her... and i doubt it was made up? Mind you, between her selection and wedding as the queen, wasnt that long and Bong Wan took over her body before she became the queen, so we shall see if she was really mean inbetween?

 

Based on the first episode, SY worked hard to be top of the queen selection and was willing to leave if she didnt find the king attractive, so it was doubtful if she managed to turn bad in a span of a week, maybe?

 

But perhaps, after she got upset with the King and Concubine Jo, after seeing their affection together? Hmmm

 

Yes. my interpretation of SY's behaviour is the same as Ni Wen's. The palace maids were scared of SY because she did treat them badly although it's all an act. The purpose is so that the palace maids can spread the message throughout the palace that SY is a bad queen and since a queen should be virtuous and be kind to her subjects, she may be kicked out as queen because of her rumoured bad personality. I can't be sure of the time span in the drama so not sure how long she was in the palace to be converted from a happy queen designate to a suicidal person. 

 

Anyway, I have expected such ending. Timeslip or soul swapping drama involving a historical character never ends well. However I have held out till the last minutes hoping for some creative writing but oh well. 

 

Now most importantly... did they play Kim Jung Hyun's song at the last episode? Only heard it in the preview for ep 20...

[Maliah]

2 hours ago, skinnyjeans said:

And I'm so happy that Kim Jung Hyun as Cheoljong got recognition he deserves (his IG followers now is finally reach 1M from only about 250k in the beginning of Mr. Queen!). Shin Hye Sun, no doubt she is brilliant actress, both are talented and like piece of puzzle they fit to each other, complete each other and we could see their awesome dynamics and amazing chemistry on screen. 

 

 

 

For me, it’s not the lack of a “happy ending”that upsets me. I knew getting into this I had to keep my expectations low. It’s the approach that was taken that’s  disappointing. It’s like the writers are trying to convince me to discard all the developments that took place in the previous 19 episodes and......I’m unable to do that. At the end of the day, though, it is a show ,and life must go on. 

Thank you so much for telling me KJH’s Instagram! I wasn’t aware of that ,and it made my day. He deserves that and more. I might be in the minority here because I came because of KJH not SHS. I wanted to heal from CLOY, which is rather ironic now. I guess KJH’s dramas are forever destined to leave me with unresolved emotions *sigh*. Despite all, I’m glad that along with KJH I was exposed to and came to appreciate SHS’s talent. I wish nothing but the best for all the actors involved. 

[kwayteow_mama]

Hello all.. late to the game but firstly thank you for being a constant companion during the whole Mr Queen journey. I have enjoyed gushing over SHS/ KJH, ranting and theorizing with you guys tremendously sometimes even more than watching the drama itself, especially towards the end. 

 

Agree with some of your comments here. Not sure what really happened during the the later part of the production but the later episodes seemed to pale in comparison to the earlier ones. Either the writer just run out of inspiration towards the end or a different ending was rushed in at the last minute to comply with some public standard/ expectation. 20 episodes is a good length but because the end was kind of "shallow" or feels like a shortcut of sorts, so it felt like there were a lot of fillers where they could have better develop it. 

 

If JBH back to the future, king victorious and KSY is the end game, they could have had ep 20 scene happen earlier on and we see more of the aftermath sequence for example how altered history influenced the current modern reality from JBH viewpoint instead of just a few words onscreen, if JBH still sees the king in a romantic light or at least show us how JBH moved on from the king (I mean, it's as if they just totally skirt all the king-sobong lovey dovey scenes), king/KSY interaction like how the king is taking in this new original KSY but all we have is them smiling at one another with the camera flying around them.  Don't even get me started on the much hyped about super fetus whom we didn't even get to see at the end let alone a pregnant tummy. I would say I rather trade one kiss scene to see the baby even in pregnant tummy form.

 

Bamboo forest felt a lot like a revisionist prequel to undo the initial thrust of the story. When we were first introduced to the story, the king was supposed to be in love with HJ and only fell in love with SB after he chose to throw away his initial prejudice and get to know her as a person. So it felt weird that he could so easily get attracted to KSY while he's supposedly dating HJ at this point. Ok I get that this is what will probably happen in real life but this just kind of put a spot on the perfect destiny couple image. I much rather see a sequel of what happens next rather than a "oh btw this actually happened before.."

 

14 hours ago, aisling said:

“I will never confuse you with another again.” 
 

I don’t know if I should laugh of cry.

 

And this part, as pointed out by @aisling. I don't know what to make of this part. On one hand the king is really returning the book to the real owner. On the other hand, BH is inside there and accepting it on behalf of the real owner as if it was really her when it wasn't. Now knowing what I know now, should I think that the king has confused the new original KSY or was the king confused with the SB back then?   Isn't the king is supposed to be the person who knows the queen best? At least we saw BI's viewpoint of KSY/SB was corrected at the end.

 

Anyway I think I will just leave Mr Queen as a rom com and not think too much about the story. With all that said, if there's one thing I did get from this drama is the amazing visuals of SHS/KJH and beautiful hanbok and Korean landscape, culture and setting and even the rest of the casts. SHS/KJH chemistry, for some reason, really appealed to me from a demographic of 30 to 40 year old female LOL but I would say that I have enjoyed their romantic tension as enemy more than when they settled into being a "real" married couple mode but this mirrors a typical progression of a romantic relationship from dating to marriage stage right? The heady cocktail of hormone first get you mad about the other person before being pulled back down to earth to reality with marriage.

[xprosperity]

3 hours ago, skinnyjeans said:

I second you. 

I had been in this situation before (Mr. Sunshine), but I think this one is little bit harder for me to really accept it. 

 

Maybe some people think that we are overreacting, they probably won't understand that we really invested our mind and heart not only into the main actor and actress whose acting skill are outstanding, but also to the story. And the problem is, we had high expectation on the story. 

 

There are flaws and loopholes in the screenwriting which even the Extra series (Secret Bamboo Forest) can't really cover it. I think that's what we all have to admit, even though some are satisfied with the ending. 

 

I try to find the closure, by reading some of the arguments of why the ending makes sense. I'm trying to be open with it. It's just a drama afterall, right.. 

 

However, KJH's answer last night then remind me something of what true love or marriage is and what we missed:

 

"It doesn't matter whose soul in the body,  what matters is how cheoljong chose how to see So Yong from his perspective and fell in love with her that way"

 

Human is the most dynamic creature in this universe. People change. And in the marriage we'll see things that we don't see while we are dating, and we'll see many many parts of our spouse that are hidden before. And accepting our spouse for what she/he is, regardless the changes, is what I think true love. Loving you as you are, no matter how crazy, weird, unstable, inconsistent, and imperfect you are. I once watched this documentary about a married couple whose spouse is having multiple/dissociative personality disorder, she has not only two different personalities, but more,  and her husband accepts and loves her as she is and take care of her.

 

So CJ must realize the changes of SY, but all this long he only sees SY as SY who is weird since they were kids and even weirder when she is grown up, he doesn't see SB, he sees SY that way and accepts and loves her as she is.

 

I think it'll be a closure for me, regardless the loopholes here and there in the screenwriting. But yeah, I need to move on. 

 

And I'm so happy that Kim Jung Hyun as Cheoljong got recognition he deserves (his IG followers now is finally reach 1M from only about 250k in the beginning of Mr. Queen!). Shin Hye Sun, no doubt she is brilliant actress, both are talented and like piece of puzzle they fit to each other, complete each other and we could see their awesome dynamics and amazing chemistry on screen. 

 

I will definitely watch their other work in the future. 

 

This. It took me a while to move on from Mr. Sunshine too, I feel you there. I think I found a bit more closure after hearing KJH's answer. CJ even said even if SY has lots of flaws and isn't a perfect person, no matter what, he'll still love her.  And that's true, I think CJ just thought SY was a bit crazy, even when BH entered the screen. Surely enough, he knew SY was quite nontraditional but with BH being dominant, she was off the rails. Even with BH gone, I'm sure CJ would still love SY. I think what got majority of folks disappointed is the whole: "I feel like I lost something" and the "Why are you speaking so formally? Are you plotting another surprise?" I think those lines broke a lot of people.

 

I seriously need to move on (more difficult than said).

 

The main actors REALLY fit so well with one another. I would absolutely watch another drama with them in it. Toward the end, with all of the loopholes in the plot/writing, I just took it as SHS/KJH moments (they played the whole drama anyway despite the soul combinations) which I enjoyed. I'll just take the Bamboo Forest ending as the true ending, whatever.

20 minutes ago, Maliah said:

For me, it’s not the lack of a “happy ending”that upsets me. I knew getting into this I had to keep my expectations low. It’s the approach that was taken that’s  disappointing. It’s like the writers are trying to convince me to discard all the developments that took place in the previous 19 episodes and......I’m unable to do that. At the end of the day, though, it is a show ,and life must go on. 

Thank you so much for telling me KJH’s Instagram! I wasn’t aware of that ,and it made my day. He deserves that and more. I might be in the minority here because I came because of KJH not SHS. I wanted to heal from CLOY, which is rather ironic now. I guess KJH’s dramas are forever destined to leave me with unresolved emotions *sigh*. Despite all, I’m glad that along with KJH I was exposed to and came to appreciate SHS’s talent. I wish nothing but the best for all the actors involved. 

Me. Too. I went to the drama for KJH (he didn't disappoint, of course). I cried like a baby in CLOY and wanted to semi break from that heartbreak. Only to find a bigger heartbreak for KJH's character, ahhhhhhh! Crying again, brb. Nevertheless, like I said many many many many times, I will not hesitate to jump right in to watch another one of their dramas if they were cast together- historical or modern, I don't care. They have an amazing chemistry.

[Raffles]

I think it kinda went like this for many people:

 

Shot of So Bong crawling, desperate to reach her husband.

Oh crap, I hope she's okay, she just got--

Shot of heart monitor

*!*

So Bong is reaching, even more frantic, scared for Cheoljong...

Oh, you better not, I swear to God if you--

Bong Hwan sits up in his hospital bed.

Sound of bird chirping loudly.

 

I do think Bong Hwan's story ended like it should, but at the same time I am angry and sad for poor, confused Cheoljong. The writers really twisted the knife with that please stop teasing me and go back to the way you were, my crazy queen.

 

That was a low blow for a romcom ending. Mixed feelings. It was a really fun ride, but man!

[cdcotr]

14 hours ago, skinnyjeans said:

 

 

this answer was kinda disappointing.

It's like you're saying it doesn't matter who that person you love is at all, what only matters is how the person who loves you perceives you. This is more like how BI loved SY. He loved his vision of her and imposed his love on her,  not taking into account her views on the matter (she refused) or interpreted her actions in a way to support his belief that CJ is still a danger to her and that he was trying to save her from him.

It is a self-centred view. It's "how I see you" vs "how you really are"

 

Or interpreted a different way, it only matters how you appear to someone and how that perception of you is what they fell in love with...It's like the truth of who a person is doesn't matter.

In a way, there is some truth to that.  We might see our object of affection with rose colored glasses and they appear better than they really are.   But is this really accurate? Or do you still see the truth of a person, warts and all, but choose to overlook them?

Is love, not grounded in a true, accurate understanding and knowing of the object of your affection, true love in the deepest sense?

 

Do we not all yearn for someone to love us like CJ told BH, that he loved him despite all her flaws or perhaps because of them.

Which meant that he saw the truth of BH. We all saw how he made a study of the Queen. He had to learn her ways, understand her motives, observe her reactions, and he needed to do this so that he can get over the fact that she was from the Kim clan and to judge whether the queen is truly a danger and needs to be eliminated.  

He got to know her and bec of this learned to trust her, then fall in love with her.

 

So yes, it does matter whose soul is inside a person.  Even if SY learns from BH and takes on some of his characteristics, it will be a pale imitation .

Like the king said, something feels like it's missing.

 

Edited February 16, 2021 by Jillia
Please do not quote pics! Thanks!

[backstreetboysfan]

Finished the spin off episodes, Loved them! .

[aisling]

This is the compilation of what Jung Hyun said yesterday during his IG Live.

 

 

His answers were quite diplomatic. Fans are forgetting he can’t criticise Mr Queen writers publicly, so his answers were more or less defending the writers’ decisions. Fans are also forgetting Bong Hwan is a guy, so I think Jung Hyun was being subtle with this topic.

 

But I’d like to point out this part. 

 

He’s defending the writers’ decisions but he still knows the reactions to the ending are mixed, that a lot of people are disappointed.

 

I had to laugh to at part when he said So Yong would hate it if Cheoljong liked Bong Hwan better.

 

This makes me realise that despite So Yong getting her happy ending with Cheoljong... it’s mostly a bittersweet ending for three people involved.

 

- Bong Hwan left someone he loved deeply behind. Will he be able to love someone like this again? Will he find someone who’d challenge him intellectually and emotionally like this? Imagine living the rest of your life remembering you experienced this epic love story.

 

- Cheoljong will keep wondering about the changes in his wife. Not only the mannerisms, language, but also her intellect. Those deep night conversations about democracy will be no more. He will always feel like he lost something significant while looking at the Queen’s dictionary. 

 

- So Yong will be feeling like an imposter in her own body. She will be wondering for the rest of her life who Cheoljong truly liked. She should feel ashamed about taking her own life and that someone else literally saved her, her husband and the country. I keep wondering how does she feel knowing all those personal traits Cheoljong confessed he came to like belonged to Bong Hwan. How will she feel whenever she looks at the Queen’s dictionary?

[xinyue99]

@partyon 

May I suggest you to watch a Thai lakorn : Love Destiny.. I am not a fan of Thai drama or movie, but I watched that drama, don’t remember why but I must say that drama is worth to watch.

 

it’s about time travel and a soul from future transfered to the past. I found the story telling is consistent from ep 1 to last episode. And I love the fact that even she knew about the future/history,  she didn’t say/do much, because she believe what is meant to happen, will happen. 
 

Mr. Queen is indeed one good drama, but it failed to be a legendary drama for me. It won’t be a drama that I can re-watch many times, because there is flaw at the ending. But as somebody said here that Kdrama has that typical character, good intro and good conflict, but they don’t know how to wrap the story. My favourite drama when I need a good laugh is Full House.

 

And for the people who feel Mr Queen ending is not satisfying, it’s not because we want a certain ending, (SY-CJ, SB-CJ, or BL ending etc). What we want is a believable ending, based on what they have shown us from ep 1-19.. we hope the writer will tied that all in the last episode. Please don’t say we have to understand this, understand that.. lol

 

I read somebody said, they can make JBH soul transfered back to the future because Queen Dowager use a shaman, that would be good a story, it still connected to the story line, etc etc.. sorry for ranting, I will stop

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[cenching]

5 hours ago, skinnyjeans said:

However, KJH's answer last night then remind me something of what true love or marriage is and what we missed:

 

"It doesn't matter whose soul in the body,  what matters is how cheoljong chose how to see So Yong from his perspective and fell in love with her that way"

 

49 minutes ago, cdcotr said:

his answer was kinda disappointing.

It's like you're saying it doesn't matter who that person you love is at all, what only matters is how the person who loves you perceives you.

 

KJH's answer is based upon his capacity as CJ's character. CJ is written as a total lover boy who follows his heart when it comes to love. CJ told HJ, whether you were the girl in the well or not it doesn't effects my feeling toward you for the past 2 years. To SB/SY, even if you the most flawed person in the world I will still love you. So this is how CJ's character is written. CJ is a Joseon Era man who had no idea what is souls swapped or whatsoever. He is simple man when it comes to love. CJ will never knows about The Great Souls-Swapped of His Queen until the day he died and what he doesn't know, won't hurts him. So it's really doesn't matter for CJ. The writers did great with the consistency and showed some great respect toward the character. But if you direct the same Q to KJH as his personal opinion where the same thing happens to his own wife, I won't be too sure if he will gives the same A....

 

My beef with this drama isn't the ending but the disrespect that the writers showed to the characters and me as a viewer. They did great with CJ, just like what I said above BUT they did dirty with SB/SY. SY condemned HJ for stealing her man by taking her credits. But she did the same thing with BH. The writer punished HJ for her sins but SY walked out in victory. As a Chinese thru and thru and I am sure the same thing applies to ancient/modern Korean culture as well, it's a great humiliation to claims what is not yours especially when it comes to merits. But look at what happened to SY, she can't take the heat she chose dead and lying cowardly inside her own body and only emerged now and then when it times for hot night with CJ while BH had to risks his life for CJ and the people BUT at the end of the day SY emerged as THE Champion. For me this is BAD writing and I am sure the one wrote SY's character is insane.

 

JBH's character has the most growth when he was SB. He was a selfish son of the biscuit to begin with and turns into a great woman albeit foul-mouthed for CJ and his kingdom who cherishes the baby inside him/her and even willing to dies for the man he/she loves. But at the end the writers did him dirty too. He is back into a selfish mutant jerk who ONLY slightly better than before Joseon happened. He forgot all his love to the baby, Lady Choi, HY and especially CJ.  The Joseon episode in his life had sweep under his apron.

 

Personally I know since the beginning that it's impossible for SB-CJ as endgame. I also know that everything has to put back to it place BUT this is not how they should do it. The writers do scared of the backlash if they made it too obvious especially I read there were some descendant of the clans depicted in the drama who filed some complain (Most likely is The Hans....) but there are so many options to tied up the loose threads into the neat bows and they chose the worst possible way.

 

 

 

 

 

[xprosperity]

10 minutes ago, aisling said:

His answers were quite diplomatic. Fans are forgetting he can’t criticise Mr Queen writers publicly, so his answers were more or less defending the writers’ decisions. Fans are also forgetting Bong Hwan is a guy, so I think Jung Hyun was being subtle with this topic.

 

He’s defending the writers’ decisions but he still know the reactions to the ending are mixed, that a lot of people are disappointed.

 

I had to laugh to at part when he said So Yong would hate it if Cheoljong liked Bong Hwan better.

 

This makes me realise that despite So Yong getting her happy ending with Cheoljong... it’s mostly a bittersweet ending for three people involved.

 

- Bong Hwan left someone he loved deeply behind. Will he be able to love someone like this again? Will he find someone who’d challenge him intellectually and emotionally like this? Imagine living the rest of your life remembering you experienced this epic love story.

 

- Cheoljong will keep wondering about the changes in his wife. Not only the mannerisms, language, but also her intellect. Those deep night conversations about democracy will be no more. He will always feel like he lost something significant while looking at the Queen’s dictionary. 

 

- So Yong will be feeling like an imposter in her own body. She will be wondering for the rest of her life who Cheoljong truly liked. She should feel ashamed about taking her own life and that someone else literally saved her, her husband and the country. I keep wondering how does she feel knowing all those personal traits Cheoljong confessed he came to like belonged to Bong Hwan. How will she feel whenever she looks at the Queen’s dictionary?

Your analysis of it made it harder for me to digest. Not because you're right, it's because you're right. Surely, KJH has to defend and not openly critique the ending that he was given in the script. I believe the team knows that folks online aren't quite content with the ending that BH just got kicked back into modern times and SB became SY again. I can't wipe 19 episodes of that lovey dovey, kissing scenes, cooking scenes, all of that chemistry, just for the drama to tell me "hey, look, SY is back". 

 

Your analysis of the three characters is right. BH had wanted to go back to his own times so perhaps it would be a bit easier for him, but you're so on the dot when you mentioned how BH would move on after experiencing that epic love story with CJ as a woman, nonetheless. And if HJ had such a huge reaction after seeing the Queen's dictionary, I can imagine that it's not going to look pretty for SY either. However, I'm just thinking that if SB had memories of SY from the past, perhaps SY would also have memories of SB/BH and what he's gone through in her body during all this time. This was first caught (by me at least) when SY awoke and stabbed KJG with her hair pin in the leg to stop him by killing CJ.

 

Honestly, I've said this in like 3 posts by now but a) I'll just take Bamboo Forest as the ending, b) Since SHS plays both SY/SB, I'll just take that it's a good ending and that the chemistry didn't go to waste.

 

(Did anyone kinda sense that a genuine cute smile came from KJH multiple times when SHS was doing some crazy SB stunts? Like... while they were eating a burning yam?)

[cdcotr]

28 minutes ago, xinyue99 said:

@partyon 

May I suggest you to watch a Thai lakorn : Love Destiny.. I am not a fan of Thai drama or movie, but I watched that drama, don’t remember why but I must say that drama is worth to watch.

 

it’s about time travel and a soul from future transfered to the past. I found the story telling is consistent from ep 1 to last episode. And I love the fact that even she knew about the future/history,  she didn’t say/do much, because she believe what is meant to happen, will happen. 

 

 

I was going to mention this drama as one that was able to successfully execute the time travel, soul displacement theme set in historical times and they also used real historical figures. Thai title is Bpoop Phaeh Saniwaat.

I agree, it was consistent throughout and they were able to explain the mechanics of how the transmigration happened and why, including the connection between the 2 souls.

I just recently rewatched this, right before I started Mr Queen, in fact...

It was also comedic , with romance as the main focus but they did not neglect the political parts of the plot. 

They also took a more educational approach I think as they were careful to explain historical events, places, etc.

 

They were able to resolve both ends of the continuum, they showed what happens in present day and how her story ends in the past. They had closure for both the souls that traveled.

This is a Thai lakorn from a major network so it is quite long, 15 or 16 episodes of abt 1 hr 45 mins. requires commitment for sure.  But I enjoyed it since I actually re-watched the whole thing.

And the ending was definitely satisfying.  It wasn't 100% happy, as one character is left lonely but I won't say more bec it will be a spoiler. But even so, it was a coherent, logical, satisfying ending.

Maybe some of you might check it out.

 

Oh I just remembered, I FF'd the parts of one couple (There are 3 couples) , it was the dark side of the drama. And I guess I just blocked them from my memory LOL.

[kwayteow_mama]

1 hour ago, aisling said:

- Bong Hwan left someone he loved deeply behind. Will he be able to love someone like this again? Will he find someone who’d challenge him intellectually and emotionally like this? Imagine living the rest of your life remembering you experienced this epic love story.

 

- Cheoljong will keep wondering about the changes in his wife. Not only the mannerisms, language, but also her intellect. Those deep night conversations about democracy will be no more. He will always feel like he lost something significant while looking at the Queen’s dictionary. 

 

- So Yong will be feeling like an imposter in her own body. She will be wondering for the rest of her life who Cheoljong truly liked. She should feel ashamed about taking her own life and that someone else literally saved her, her husband and the country. I keep wondering how does she feel knowing all those personal traits Cheoljong confessed he came to like belonged to Bong Hwan. How will she feel whenever she looks at the Queen’s dictionary?

 

Exactly. I would rather they dedicate some time in the drama addressing these salient points.

We didn't even see any real dynamics between original KSY and Cheoljong at the end. I'm not even asking for lovey dovey scene but just to gage how is the king taking in this version of the queen. Yes we did see him looking wistfully at his queen's dictionary as an acknowledgement that he knew there's something different about the queen but I still find it weird that he can accept a personality change like that and conveniently brushing off or disregarding what sobong told him before about being a dude from the future. I mean, isn't he portrayed to be progressive enough to embrace radical ideas or the queen displaying more male associated traits like flirting with concubines? Something just doesn't jive here. He's progressive and intuitive in many respect but just completely glossing over the most important point.   

 

My other gripe is that KSY seems to have more control over BH on when she chooses to be the dominant personality or what she choose to remember or chooses for BH to remember.  That's why it feels like she's taking credit for the actions taken by BH. KSY choose to go into hibernation whenever there's any heavylifting to be done. For make out scenes, viewers are left to fantasize whether it's BH or KSY depending on your sexual preference.

 

To be honest, in the beginning I found the drama interesting because of the potentially more progressive plot but at the end it just went the conventional mainstream way i.e. a fully heterosexual ending.  Queen is fully feminine and JBH went on his life as a guy again.. who knows.. maybe this is to make an open end to welcome a potential season 2

 

[annyeong429]

2 hours ago, aisling said:

- Bong Hwan left someone he loved deeply behind. Will he be able to love someone like this again? Will he find someone who’d challenge him intellectually and emotionally like this? Imagine living the rest of your life remembering you experienced this epic love story.

 

Hmmm... I never had the impression that BH wanted to stay in Joseon, but he accepted it after many failed attempts to return to his time. When he finally did, he was NOT heartbroken at all, but rather very happy upon reading about the king and queen's accomplishments. I interpreted it as he was genuinely happy for CJ and SY. He originally thought that he came to Joseon for nothing which turned out to be absolutely untrue. His time spent with CJ and SY helped changed Joseon for the better. At least for me, I thought that was the main point of the story. I have no doubt that BH, as handsome and charming as he is, will find his love story in his own time.

 

2 hours ago, aisling said:

- Cheoljong will keep wondering about the changes in his wife. Not only the mannerisms, language, but also her intellect. Those deep night conversations about democracy will be no more. He will always feel like he lost something significant while looking at the Queen’s dictionary.

 

After BH left, it was clear the SY still retained some of his traits such as the cursing and how she lifted up her skirt to walk more comfortably versus daintily. She said it herself that perhaps her hidden instincts have been awoken. So, I am certain that CJ will still see some aspects of the language and mannerisms. As far as her intellect, she immediately made positive changes to Internal Court so it leads me to believe that she is capable helping CJ with royal affairs. Again, when BH read about CJ's achievements, it was credited to the queen as well.

 

2 hours ago, aisling said:

- So Yong will be feeling like an imposter in her own body. She will be wondering for the rest of her life who Cheoljong truly liked. She should feel ashamed about taking her own life and that someone else literally saved her, her husband and the country. I keep wondering how does she feel knowing all those personal traits Cheoljong confessed he came to like belonged to Bong Hwan. How will she feel whenever she looks at the Queen’s dictionary?

 

It was obvious that SY did not question CJ's love for her. I actually agree with KJH that the turning point of how he viewed the queen was indeed the hairpin scene. I thought it was rather quick that once he realized that he had misunderstood SY all along, he was adamant in trying to mend things between them. So, the reveal that he had already fallen for SY beforehand, but only held back because she was from the Kim clan made sense to me.

 

Regarding the dictionary, CJ created it to help him better understand the queen which he acknowledged that he does not think he fully would. From what I can tell when SY saw the dictionary, she was touched that CJ made such efforts to understand the queen. Whether the queen was SY or BH, personally, I do not think it matters because the truth is that CJ saw the queen as SY.

 

Last, it was not like SY was ungrateful for BH. It was clear that she appreciated everything that he did for her when she saw his carving on the stone/rock by the lake. To me, there shouldn't be anything for SY to be ashamed about, but she knew from hereon not to take CJ and the country for granted.

[shimshimae]

I agree with most of the recent posts here - and yes, some of us do get intensely involved in fictional stories - and a well-written story with properly sketched characters can make quite an impact - which is why the ending leaves so many of us so unsettled. 
 

Now that I've seen the spinoffs with subs - it does seem like it was filmed to appease this backlash - but my heart still goes out for CJ and BH/SB - SB was that one person who really understood him despite all her attempts not to (all her gender/sexual identity crisis and need for survival amid constant political intrigue) - even in the spinoff - SB says stuff like (paraphrasing) "I know you are trying so hard not to crumble." CJ from the beginning had a very tragic life - although he told HJ he didn't like her just because of the past - I think it did start there (why else would he wake up from his nightmares calling out for Hwa Jin in the beginning?) - however he never really connected with her (the way I see it, HJ was a hope he hung to to escape his nightmares but he found another solution in Queen's dictionary), the way he was able to open himself to SB - SB forced out raw/vulnerable out of him - and to be able to seen for that - that true naked self of his in front of person he actually wronged (give his guilt for his past behaviour towards SY) must have been very liberating for him - and so he continues to pursue her and declares his love etc etc. Like I pointed out way back - CJ feels "alive" when he's with SB - all other aspects of his life are obligations he need to fulfill - could be why he wants a normal life with her without the trappings of titles and power as his re-born wish - just themselves 

For SB/BH - it was also a big learning curve - from wanting to side with who's in power to instinctively protecting CJ - highlighting how he/she truly came to love CJ over a period of time - and it's a believable ending for BH to return then since he does have major realisations about life as @Raffles pointed out. However, I feel like SB also got adjusted to her female body - she was comfortable in hanboks, she adjusted to periods and pregnancy - I mean, won't BH feel disoriented again to have to readjust and maybe even miss some of this stuff? (I don't want to start another rant not showing the baby - this is already turning into a long post lol)

BUT both deserve closure. (as do the audience who put weeks and weeks into their relationship) 
 

CJ deserves to know the truth - he said it himself while handing over the book, "Not knowing the truth can hurt the other person." (paraphrasing)

I wish SB or SY told him what was happening - at least BH can find closure because he knows but what about CJ? He'll forever be feeling a "void" and not knowing why 

Yesterday, I had the energy for fanfics but today I feel quite emotionally drained - so just sharing the ideas I got previously. 

Like @Raffles mentioned QD and the shaman might conspire to send the queen back. CJ realises something is off with the queen after a few days (since he's the in-house Jung Jeon expert) and questions SY, "Do you know JBH?" (since JBH is brought up in the spin-offs as well) - CJ finally knows the truth and finds solace in visiting their royal villa alone and pens letter/poems which are posthumously published by YP. 
The title of the book - "To My One and Only You." by Jong Cheol dedicated to Lee Sang Man (so that the future BH can read it and know it's from CJ) 
Some poem titles: My Comfort, A Tigress's Roar, The Alien 
I'm sure CJ would have penned some beautiful poems to keep SB memory alive 

And it would be nice if BH reincarnated as a woman (to fulfil him mom's wish and also because he's now adjusted to a female body) and then meet CJ again in modern life as normal people (mostly because I'm attached to SHS-KJH pairing ) but on the whole I'm gender-neutral about it just that both the characters need to find proper closure. 

Sigh. Sorry for the long post chingus. 

[cdcotr]

This is the 3rd time I'll be typing this bec I don't know how but it disappeared before I could hit post. 

I just wanted to bring up something that stuck with me from the beginning and was never adequately explained. It was brought up in previous page..

It was how SY acted in the palace, punishing maids, court ladies, eunuchs and maybe even kids as they were shown to be scared of her.  She had them punished even for minor if not non-existent faults. 

GQD mentioned that she might have done that to get out of being chosen as queen. Though it was never explicitly confirmed.

If this was her plan, it was cruel. and ineffective.

She was vicious and punished innocent people to get out of something she agreed to do.

 

She could have asked her father to take her home.  He seemed to dote on her and spoil her even if he might neglect her.  Or she could have pretended to be sick, or even pretend to have a lover.

Schemes that would not involve hurting other people who could not fight back.

 

Besides, being cruel would not have deterred the GQD, KJG, the ministers as they are all cruel and vicious  too.  They wouldn't care. All they wanted is to use her to control CJ and boost their power in the court.

They would not have let her go for anything short of being infertile or being caught having an affair (maybe a rumor would do).

But her choice to ruin her chances by being cruel and hurting innocent people, instead of taking a more drastic and risky to herself plan (but would be more effective)...well...tells me something of her character.

 

 

[kwayteow_mama]

Chingus.. would this alternative have made the ending more palatable?

What if KSY personality shows up earlier in the show? Not in the subtle way that have us fantasizing or guessing whether that's BH or KSY making out with the king. And the SY/BH split personality was acknowledged and accepted by the king earlier on in the drama? And king also accept the idea that BH is from the future. I think it will be quite interesting if at times SY wakes up in some kind of situation of BH's doing and vice versa. Something like KSY waking up suddenly when JBH was in Oktajeong something like that. Or BH only find out that KSY made love with the king because he was awake when they first find out about the pregnancy. At first CJ will be a bit unsettled but after he kind of accept it, then it will be quite funny to see how he have to contend with the two personalities surfacing at different times.

 

I think it's better if both BH and SY doesn't have control of who becomes dominant at what point and this is directly shown as a running theme of the drama so that both BH and SY have a hand in the ending. 

 

22 minutes ago, cdcotr said:

I just wanted to bring up something that stuck with me from the beginning and was never adequately explained. It was brought up in previous page..

It was how SY acted in the palace, punishing maids, court ladies, eunuchs and maybe even kids as they were shown to be scared of her.  She had them punished even for minor if not non-existent faults. 

GQD mentioned that she might have done that to get out of being chosen as queen. Though it was never explicitly confirmed.

If this was her plan, it was cruel. and ineffective.

She was vicious and punished innocent people to get out of something she agreed to do.

 

Thanks for bringing this up. This was my thought as well. I thought this part was kind of unnecessary and then at the end KSY suddenly become this progressive and magnanimous lady?