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11 hours ago, tazmin said:

I think ultimate the biggest issue is that there wasn’t enough development for SY in the main series. If you have to resort to a spinoff for required development, that’s a fail imo. 
 

That’s a very diplomatic answer cause in the show, when SB acted like a Queen, CJ freaked out. I’m sure in reality CJ while in love with SY, would’ve been fundamentally confused at what happened to fire in his Queen. Would he stay as in love as he was with SB with SY? Probably not

i do believe that that is one of the flaws of the show. But the writers actually tried. In the chinese version, there were no hints about the og queen. In this drama, the writers actually tried to give more development for SoYong, sometimes focusing on her history, feelings for the king, childhood background with the king, etc. Even without the spinoff, they tried to justify the connection between our royals by using the childhood lovers trope. Unfortunately for them, they werent able to convince the audience about that especially with the king saying to Hwa Jin that he didnt like her just because of what she did when they were kids. 

 

On the fact that I saw SoYong and Bong Hwan as one, I always interpret SoYong as a tamer Bong Hwan. They may have differences in personalities because of the environment they lived in (and their gender) but So Yong and Bong Hwan basically have the same character. They both have the tendencies to break rules, they both have the courage to be cruel and selfish sometimes, and they both treasure those who are important to them. Well, thats just my opinion.

 

If we follow the destiny trope, I do believe that the king will stay in love with the queen. Their meetings arent coincidences and it seemed like they were arranged by fate. Their meeting when they were kids, the love at first sight scene, them being enemies. In those instances, SoYong has been showing the king different sides of her. She was mature in the well, was gentle when they first met as adults, was cruel when they became enemies, was rowdy when she was possessed by Bong Hwan. In the King's eyes all of those personalities are SoYong and he felt all kinds of emotions towards her during those times. I believe that when CJ realized that he is in love, he just didnt fell in love with Bong Hwan's personality but all of SoYong - even the SoYong before Bong Hwan possessed her. Bong Hwan's personality helped him understand the queen more. 

 

And when I say So Yong and Bong Hwan is one, I do believe that CJ fell in love with both SoYong and Bong Hwan. Thats why in my mind, I believe that Bong Hwan will meet CJ's reincarnation in the present time and they will fall in love. The writers did not elaborate but they cannot stop my imagination! haha Theyve been hinting at "next life" in the spinoffs soooo.. hihi

11 hours ago, tazmin said:

That’s a very diplomatic answer cause in the show, when SB acted like a Queen, CJ freaked out. I’m sure in reality CJ while in love with SY, would’ve been fundamentally confused at what happened to fire in his Queen. Would he stay as in love as he was with SB with SY? Probably not

And I guess he was already confused, when he asked the queen why is she calling him formally haha but I believe he stayed in love with her, what with the happy ending Bong Hwan read in the present time. 

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2xndJBM.jpg
 

He looks so good here. It’s a BTS pic, right? In the actual scene he wore a hat and mask.

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16 hours ago, realistic2280a said:

@xprosperity @yumeaki 

 

This is what i meant... because in the Bamboo Forest episode 1, we saw that she was kind and not as bad as others imagined her to be... So, im just saying, maybe the writers forgot that, and we still dont know why she went bad in a span of a few days after being confirmed as the Queen Designate.

 

Since she liked the King, i dont think she would be silly enough to show her bad side, which in the drama, the King is aware of her bad misdeeds before and expected the worst of her, her being Andong Kim clan and all...:lol:

Ok. I think i get what you mean. Like if SY is kind, she shouldn't punish innocent people even if she is just 'acting'. There should be another way to prove that she's a bad choice for a queen. I wonder if her being brought up in a traditional rich Joseon family means she may think corporal punishment is fine and is the best way to provide minimum pain to reach her goal (as long as the palace staff are not punished till they are bedridden, other form of pain will heal). Any other way may not be enough to have her kicked out? Again, I don't remember how long she was in the palace from the time she was chosen as the Queen designate to the time she jumped into the lake but I guess she doesn't cope well with stress. 

 

16 hours ago, cenching said:

@xprosperity @yumeaki @realistic2280a

The writers were having fun writing about SB right until episode 19 and a half after that they were hit by whatever realization so they had to take an U turn. That's why I said they did SY down and dirty.

I have thought the drama finished filming early means the script was completed earlier so the writer should have ample time back then to think and write a consistent storyline. It's not like the writer has to rush to write an ending in a real-time filming drama. I thought the drama was nicely written with some parts in the earlier episodes explained and closed later so I have some expectation for how they will wrap up the story. Then again, I remember a few pre-filmed Kdramas with stories written as if they are written in real time as they filmed. No difference. The writers still couldn't take time to think through the story and the execution. 

 

While I like the spin off (cos I get to see SB-CJ interaction again), the only part I don't like was when SB wished to return to his healthy body. It's like the writer telling us "see, he wants to go back, let him be and be happy about the ending". Okaay... 

 

Anyway I'm not particularly upset about the ending. There's just a slight tinge of emptiness as if something is not completed. i'm not so worried about BH though. Back in his testosterone-filled body, he probably will start womanizing again :lol: Modern world has much temptation and distraction. He will definitely become a better person though having learnt to root for people he cares about. As for SY, I believe BH's behavior will rub off on her and she will become wilder although she will never be crazy - this should be enough for CJ (any tameness can be explained with motherhood). For CJ, he will feel a loss but he likes enough of SB to accept any changes as long as she doesn't turn evil. Anyway he doesn't live long enough so won't be missing a lot (sorry, CJ). 

 

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2 hours ago, Clemzstar said:

I have been trying to find this scene on Youtube but not having luck. Just wondering if anyone has a gif of the king slowmo walk towards the palace OR then the king is putting on the scarf for the queen and the queen delicate response.

 

@Clemzstar Thanks for mentioning these lovely scenes! They were my most favorites of the ending. Here is what I have:

 

giphy.gif

giphy.gif

 

Spoiler

giphy.gif

giphy.gif

 

giphy.gif

 

If these aren't it, feel free to PM me.

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Poor Kim Bang Won, just like his scar-faced assassin Sal So, he lurks in the shadows, no camera time in the behind the scenes videos. :mask:

 

I had to look his character's name up. :lol:

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I finally watched the final 2 episodes with the subs.

I guess it was a good thing I spoiled myself by reading the posts here on the thread before watching. I probably would have been more annoyed with that last half of the finale if I watched unknowing of how it ends.  Even with foreknowledge, it was still tough to watch. I think I growled a few times LOL

 

 I thought I'd write some thoughts before I go back and read the past few pages...This is going to be long...sorry...

 

I think I will just consider ep 19 as the finale and maybe beginning of 20, and conveniently forget the rest of what they broadcast.

 

Ok, first, I think the way BI died was the kindest way to end his story arc. He was in love with someone who could never be his, he committed crimes and treason, tried to kill the king himself and schemed to do so.  Hard to go back from that.

At least he got to learn that there is still something of SY left behind and that he was able to do all he can for her.

I don't like this character for several reasons, but this was the kindest end to his journey. He gets to leave on a heroic note, instead of the obsessed, delusional scheming, ruthless person that he became.

 

If they included a reincarnation trope, I would actually like him to reincarnate and get together with SY some other time period. 

 

One thing I liked is that Special Dir Hong confessed to Kim Hwan that he only got close to him to spy on the Kims and pump him for information. I'm glad that KH learned the truth. But forgiving and pure soul that he is, he still came back to them to help and even just swept it under the rug and resumed their funny friendship.  I wish he at least vented some of his hurt, but it is consistent with his character that he just lets it be, so I'm ok with it. 

SD Hong only truly realized how loyal and good KH is when he still came to them in prison and offered to help.  He felt the sting of guilt then LOL. I admit, that was satisfying.  And when he refused to use him further, that was touching.

His crying face was hilarious!

Those 2 had short scenes relatively, but they steal the show when they're around.  As opposed to Prince YP and BI who are downers.

 

When Prince YP said he couldn't believe they couldn't help (or they were useless to) the king bec they're stuck in prison, I snorted.  Who had the great idea to storm the Queen's hall and draw a sword on her instead of learning what's going on and getting the heck out of dodge and go look for the king?

For being one of the king's trusted men, he really was disappointing.  I still don't know why he didn't go protect the king when he went out to "quell the uprising". He sure wasn't protecting the queen.

 

I actually like the hint that he may yet get to have his happy ending with HJ.

 

Court Lady Choi and the royal chef are adorable, individually and together. 

I'll just take their love story as the main love story in this drama. They developed it well, they got to know each other, they bonded over their frustrations with BH and shared the hobby of venting in the bamboo forest LOL.  They were adorable.

 

Side note, did not know that court ladies were not allowed to marry before SY's decree...

Oh and the Royal Inspector isn't a eunuch? I don't know why I thought he was.  Why did I think that all those guys in green robes were all eunuchs???

 

Some RickRoll'D moments:

A pet peeve - Why for the love of drama gods, when people with sharp swords are fighting close to you, why do you not move farther away??? Just go behind those trees 2 feet away! I'm looking at you BH, this is made worse when you have some military training and you showed them by throwing that rock and trying to cover your tracks a minute later...

 

When SY said at BI's grave, that he still found her even when she was in hiding...Is this accurate translation? bec if it is, and it wasn't supposed to be "while she was hidden" then it makes me like her even less.  So while BH was working hard to survive in the palace, dealing with the 2 witchy queens, while he was dodging swords, poison, running here and there, taking that bullet for CJ, she was nowhere to be found bec she was "hiding"??!!!   Seriously?  Wow, ok then ...

 

It was posted here that she was in the body all along and that perhaps her soul was too weak or something.  It was never clarified. It might make better sense if she was actually switched and she was in the comatose body but it doesn't seem so bec she seemed aware of what happened and recalls some things?

The show never really clarified this and it makes it confusing and leaves us guessing.

 

If she really was in there the whole time,why didn't she make her presence felt, not just memories, but actual consciousness so that at least BH had some clue?
 

When BH was being dangled by BI over that cliff, she couldn't get out of her hiding place to at least give a sign to help BH out? Not even a word.  If ever there was a time when she could have helped, her using her knowledge of BI would have helped save BH at that crucial point.  Instead it was BH's revelation that he recalled memories that made BI believe that a part of SY lives on...prompting BI to spare her.


If as some have theorized that she just pops out during intimate moments, that is even worse. She would only come out when the going is good, and pleasure is to be had? Then go back in hiding when things get tough??

So no, I prefer to think this is not the case.

 

Her memories and rare stray emotion may have influenced BH a bit but it was the alcohol that lowered his inhibitions that led to that first night. After that, the cat was out of the bag and he couldn't deny that it felt good.  (I'm glad that the show chose this rather than him denying it to his last breath)

 

Even in the last episode when they were hiding in that cart, BH admitted that his heart was pounding not bec of fear. 


So for me, SY was MIA the whole time. And CJ was just able to access some of her memories. Heck those initial signs of attraction may just be bec of those female hormones that swimming in that female body that he now had to deal with.

 

I really wish they executed it better so we there is more clarity.

 

Too long again, will have to continue in another post.

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3 hours ago, taeunfighting said:

 

@Clemzstar Thanks for mentioning these lovely scenes! They were my most favorites of the ending. Here is what I have:

 

 

 

I love sageuks, and one of my favorite tropes is when the king goes striding slow-motion into the throne room... so for me this was just sublime! Gorgeous shot, very dramatic and epic in the rain like that. For all my hatred of the actual ending, the first half had a lot of awesome moments like this.

 

Edited by serenilmauve
Please don’t quote images/gifs/videos, thanks!
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48 minutes ago, kwayteow_mama said:

I find KJH after smooch stare real sexy here :love:

 

5hozTA6.gif

 

Love it as well and I am about to gif it but you beat me to it....On the behalf of the womankind, I would like to say thank you....:Megathanks: KJH has a way in how he "adjusts" the beam on his eyes....

 

I found the kiss in the spin off is super tamed if compare to in the drama. In the spin off is more on the cute kindergarten level side while in the drama is passionate advance level.

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@cdcotr Unfortunately i do think it's implied that SY is there all along, hiding. However we are only given that knowledge/ confirmation in episode 19 (you know, like right at the end) and I bet it was also news to Sobong when BI brought up that SY must be still in there hiding since she has her memories. At first I didn't really pay too much attention when BI said that. I was, like whatever, the dude's still deluded. But what he said did come true at the end. When KSY wakes up in her own body, she's aware of what's going on and smoothly resume their ongoing mission. It doesn't look like she doesn't have memories from when BH is dominating her body. She knew she was pregnant, for e.g.

 

Perhaps one way to justify that KSY was there all along (other than in romantic scenes) was through SB bigger picture motivation and will. She's like this invisible puppet master and BH was just manifesting what she wanted in his style, judgement and mannerism. When SY and BH met and kissed in the lake, perhaps it was something like, "help me, I don't know what to do." and BH was the knight in shining armour to help her but the dumb thing is, BH just wakes up in her body and he's supposed to figure all that out accidentally and pray that he doesn't end up dead. There isn't like this guardian angel or divine being or divine revelation in a dream to tell him his mission and what happens if he ends up dead. Of course all this is just my guess at best since the drama reveals so little about the mechanics of the timeslip.

 

BH is supposed to be an egoist character and SB has put herself in many situation that will be at a disadvantage to her so perhaps that was KSY's invisible hand there especially when she sides with the king. But of course the most obvious thing to us was SB apparent motivation for allying with the king was to get back at those who tried to harm her. If you look at it in a different way, this aligns with KSY's life mission assuming it is for her man. Again this is all conjecture since we really don't get much info or character development on KSY other than she's someone in love with the king but was spurned, venting her frustration on court maids and servants either because she was bitter that the king was in love with someone else or trying to get out of being queen because it was not in line with her expectation and committed suicide because she felt hopeless.     

 

I guess maybe that's why we also always see SB constant conundrum if the body is indeed controlled by BH or KSY. BH and us, the viewers always thought that BH was in control but perhaps it was always KSY all along pulling the string from behind the scene. Yeah but I agree that it doesn't really redeem her character even viewed in this way. I'm just trying to fill in the gap here but whatever happened with the drama happened and gaps are gaps.

39 minutes ago, cenching said:

 

 

Love it as well and I am about to gif it but you beat me to it....On the behalf of the womankind, I would like to say thank you....:Megathanks: KJH has a way in how he "adjusts" the beam on his eyes....

 

I found the kiss in the spin off is super tamed if compare to in the drama. In the spin off is more on the cute kindergarten level side while in the drama is passionate advance level.

 

I second you sister!! 

Edited by serenilmauve
Please don’t quote images/gifs/videos, thanks!
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@kwayteow_mama

One more time I put the blame on the writers, if their intention was 2 souls in 1 body all along the watchtower they should at least gave us some hints or this.....78a085da6e8e4eaecb81223670ddea93.jpg

 

But none until 19 and a half episode. In the confrontation between SB-BI, SB told him point blank that she is not SY and SY has NO CONTROL at all and everything is SB's doing and that episode 19. The usual drama will give us enlightenment too as to WHY HOW are JBH-KSY not others?? What is their connection? But once again, none....I can't believe I will come to the conclusion that Mr Queen's ending is worse than GPG's 3 endings combined....:joy:

 

 

 

 

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@cenching Well, it wasn't much but the drama did got us guessing if it was SY or BH there making out with the king.. yeah still agree it's lame.. the way they have executed the drama makes KSY endgame felt like an afterthought rather than planned from the beginning. Having a prequel kinda make the story gap look even more obvious to me although I do enjoy the comedic and lovey dovey parts of it

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17 minutes ago, kwayteow_mama said:

@cenching Well, it wasn't much but the drama did got us guessing if it was SY or BH there making out with the king.. yeah still agree it's lame.. the way they have executed the drama makes KSY endgame felt like an afterthought rather than planned from the beginning. Having a prequel kinda make the story gap look even more obvious to me although I do enjoy the comedic and lovey dovey parts of it

 

Will SY the noble chaste little virgin Lady of Joseon able to performed the "aum" to such level that made CJ went gaga??? :ph34r: I don't even need to guess....:lol:

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I wonder how I should rate this drama if episodes 1-19 were 10/10 and episode 20 was 1/10. :isannoyed:

 

I still don’t understand why they didn’t go with reincarnation route. Would it be too much for Koreans to digest? I thought it wouldn’t be that controversial if they decided to say Bong Hwan and So Yong were the same soul. Maybe I’ve been living in Europe for too long and became too open-minded  :joy:

 

I can’t forgive the writers for doing my beloved Bong Hwan dirty and for making me root for the wrong OTP... But I will always be grateful to Mr Queen team for bringing together Shin Hye Sun and Kim Jung Hyun. This pairing with equal talents,  visuals and burning chemistry comes just few times in the lifetime.

 

 

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52 minutes ago, cenching said:

 

Will SY the noble chaste little virgin Lady of Joseon able to performed the "aum" to such level that made CJ went gaga??? :ph34r: I don't even need to guess....:lol:

well at least now that she acquired some mannerisms from bong hwan, i would like to believe that she will also display those skills in their bedroom from now on. hahahaha 

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