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36 minutes ago, aren_117 said:

maybe not love her love her but isnt attraction the start of falling in love? Maybe it's not love but it was definitely something. These kdramas somewhat rely on fairytale-like plots and isnt "love at first sight" a device used by many fairy tales in the past? This drama's premise felt like Romeo and Juliet in sooo many ways. hahahha

 

Anyways I found this on fb to somewhat uplift our moods about the ending.

 

And I quote...

 

"For those of us wondering if CJ can still love So Yong without BH's soul, this is the actor's answer.

CJ loved the person in front of him. We are the only ones who know that there are two souls inside So Bong. He just loved the woman in front of him and always wanted to get to know her better. He loved the girl in the well. He loved the woman in the rain (spin-off). And he loved the queen with a man's soul. And now, that soul has left her, he will still love her and strive to get to know her better. As long as she is in front of him. That is my interpretation. Hehe.

"Even if you have the most flaws in the world, I will still like you." He said EVEN IF, not BECAUSE OF. He chooses to understand, accept and love his queen, no matter what she did, whether she is womanly or man-like. Hope you also find this kind of love that will always choose you. Lol!"

 

 

I think ultimate the biggest issue is that there wasn’t enough development for SY in the main series. If you have to resort to a spinoff for required development, that’s a fail imo. 
 

That’s a very diplomatic answer cause in the show, when SB acted like a Queen, CJ freaked out. I’m sure in reality CJ while in love with SY, would’ve been fundamentally confused at what happened to fire in his Queen. Would he stay as in love as he was with SB with SY? Probably not

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Guide of : how the royal child was made         

The Tale Of The King’s Failed Mission   Our king had a very important mission, he even sent his brother away in order to succeed in his task.   5 minutes later.  

Watching it with subs made the final episode even worse.   I’m so tired of people saying So Bong was only influenced by So Yong’s emotions and feelings. You people had your happy generic het

Ok so I don’t usually post but I wanted to share my thoughts on the ending with you :) I actually agree with what's been said earlier about SB being BH+SY!

 

So the way I see it, SY was present since SB awoke from her coma/vegetative state. She was not in control, but she was there in SB’s subconscious, hence the confusion, the new feelings etc, all those things SB experienced after waking up. After her coma, SB started to be influenced by SY, which she was not before. SY’s memories came coming back, but so did her feelings, towards her father for example but towards CJ as well. Before the coma, SB only considered CJ from a man to man perspective (for example she did things to appear as ‘cool’ as he did) but after her coma, SB started looking at CJ with new eyes, influenced by SY (when they were at her family home, she was sooo flustered).

 

And SY was even more present after the lake scene. And you can see it through little elements, details, eg SB’s writing was improving, so were her embroidery skills (SB would have not been able to embroider that scarf by herself at the beginning of the drama). Another detail is the way SY and her father seem to always talk at the same time. SB started to shift from being only BH’s soul in SY’s body to being BH’s soul heavily influenced by SY’s. And to be fair, I think SB was aware, to some extent at least, that not all of her actions/reflections/feelings were her own (when doesn’t understand why she is aroused by CJ, when she misses him and wonders why it hurts so much…).

 

And to me what shows best SY’s presence is SB’s reaction to BI’s death. She’s literally in tears and horrified when she sees him die from afar. She breaks down in CJ’s arms saying BI died. SB was always rather cold to BI ; BH was not attached to him in any way. So why would SB react so strongly to BI’s death? Only because he saved her after trying to kill her?

 

As per CJ and him being spoiled of the man/woman/soul he really loves. I find KJH’s explanation on point. Throughout the whole drama, CJ has been explaining everything his wife did through his own perception and according to his own understanding. She was cold after sending him love letters all night? She must be shy. And so on. Just like he did for the banquet, finding a logical explanation for every plate, CJ, in my view, takes a situation and interprets it, according his knowledge, to fit his own perception of the world. As we all do honestly. So I think with BH’s soul gone, he will just do the same with SY.

 

So yeah, overall I think this drama was meant to end like that and the ending was hinted for quite some time in SB’s small but gradual changes in attitude.

 

Honestly, my only problem with the ending is that we did not see enough of SY and CJ together (kinda wanted to see their new dynamic and the babyyyy). If we had one or two scenes more, everyone would have been at least reassured in a way in regards to CJ’s future happiness (and I agree that the sentences like ‘Sometimes I feel like I’ve lost something’ do not help and it would have been better to just leave them out with that kind of ending). Plus a little something for BH as well would have been nice. Of course there are some loopholes (how did she not loose her baby? how did she recover so fast after almost loosing the baby?) but I mean, how did CJ recover so fast from the explosion? The whole goal was to be a funny drama while having a bit of politics/more serious topics on the side, so I don't really care about this stuff.

 

Anyway, this drama was a breeze of fresh air, very enjoyable, the acting was great, the drama was funny, I really liked it, and I think we should all just take a step back and just appreciate what a good time we had watching it! :)

Edited by fionn
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I believe that when someone is going to write something, they should keep in mind what their goal is with this whole story.
When analyzing the drama as a whole, the impression I got is that the writers' goal was to tell the love story between Kim So Yong and Cheol Jong and, to develop this story, they wanted to use the exchange of SoYong's soul for that of Bong Hwan.
This soul exchange was necessary for comedy scenes. It wouldn't have been so funny if there hadn't been a man inside a woman's body trying to escape the feelings that SoYong had for her husband.
However, this instrument was absolutely inadequate for the purpose and ended up generating all the inconsistency. Basically, the writers wanted to harvest rice, but planted beans.
They tried to justify that in the end it was appropriate that SoYong and Cheol Jong were destined loves, at first sight, that SoYong was always inside the body observing everything and that the feelings that BH felt were not his, but SY's. There were some passages in the drama in which Bong Hwan wondered (and in the spin-off he appears once): what am I feeling is my soul or is it the body? Apparently, it was from the body (and also from SoYong's soul). In my opinion, this justification is not a good one.

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 I think the main issue was the writer and director should have made SY presence more know like instead of the subtle hints they should have made it more obvious to us even if BH didn't know but viewers did. That would have still made all of his confusion still valid and funny.

 

Their other mistake was not really giving the viewers enough SY how can we truly be happy for her when we don't know her everything was through BH view even because there was 20 eps they could have established SY character more in the first ep at least so that we would be familiar with her.

 

To most people she was a weak coward who let a man fight her battle instead of fighting herself for someone she supposedly loved so much. some people try to say BH gave up his life because SY found him while he was just sinking to the bottom of the lake but he was knocked out if I remember correctly plus he fell in he didn't jump like she did.

 

But honestly my Biggest Issue is that BH in the second half of ep 20 became a meaningless character, yeah he had some growth as a person but he did build relationships with all those people in the palace, its like he barely got any reward for what he did and everything he cared about was tossed aside like it never happened.

 

They made it seem like all the relationships he built were done by SY but she would have never been friends with the head chef, HY said she was kind to her but BH treated HY and Lady Choi differently. IDK I feel like BH got cheated his ending could have been better or they could have shown more of him rather than have CJ and SY spending 2hrs running around the palace looking for each other. I think most people cared more about BH than any other character and in the end he became a side character, which is to me is the most disappointing.

 

 

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The great widowed queen was sent to the western palace and the widowed queen was sent to the western palace. Was this a punishment because they had to be confined inside without talking to anyone or because it was less prestigious?

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18 minutes ago, Mila said:

The great widowed queen was sent to the western palace and the widowed queen was sent to the western palace. Was this a punishment because they had to be confined inside without talking to anyone or because it was less prestigious?

 

I am not sure about Joseon era but in ancient Chinese existed a palace that was called Cold Palace (冷宫) where all the harem women who sinned were banished there until they die. It was like an exile for the women of the harem. So most likely West Palace is something equivalent.

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Yknow what else they could’ve done instead have SY be the central character with her voice but with Bong occupy her body also and be the devil on her shoulder. Egging and pushing her on, maybe sometimes taking over her body momentarily but really help on her journey. Would’ve been hilarious to hear the possible squabbling that would’ve happened in her head 

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Sorry, I'm back with another comment, because I just cannot wrap my head around this ending! Can you IMAGINE experiencing what Bong-hwan did? Not just going back in time, having to adapt to being in someone else's body, the scheming and danger in the court, etc... but you're abruptly married to someone, slowly and warily come to trust each other, then fall deeply in love and form an intense connection to the point that you're staying up all night talking and sharing ideas, can't stay away from each other, and would literally risk your lives for each other, not to mention that you're expecting a baby. You would ride or die for your husband, "all in," even though you know that in the historical record he does not succeed. You also develop close personal friendships with your maidservants, the head chef, the little girl... and then that's all ripped away from you in an instant. You will never see them again, never say goodbye, never get closure, and you can't tell anyone about it. And all we get to see is Bong-hwan tearfully smiling over a portrait of Cheoljong in a book. That's it?! Are we supposed to just accept that BH is glad CJ was a good king, and now he'll just go on with his modern life? That would be absolutely TRAUMATIZING beyond words. I normally dislike sad endings, but it would've been better for the drama to just end sadly and acknowledge how heartbreaking the situation is, rather than painting it as a happy conclusion.  

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50 minutes ago, aisling said:

What if.... the writers didn’t give us this terrible ending because they planned but because they were forced by external pressure in the midway of the drama?

This should’ve been a web drama honestly 

Edited by Jillia
Please do not quote pics! Thanks!
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3 hours ago, fionn said:

Ok so I don’t usually post but I wanted to share my thoughts on the ending with you :) I actually agree with what's been said earlier about SB being BH+SY!

 

So the way I see it, SY was present since SB awoke from her coma/vegetative state. She was not in control, but she was there in SB’s subconscious, hence the confusion, the new feelings etc, all those things SB experienced after waking up. After her coma, SB started to be influenced by SY, which she was not before. SY’s memories came coming back, but so did her feelings, towards her father for example but towards CJ as well. Before the coma, SB only considered CJ from a man to man perspective (for example she did things to appear as ‘cool’ as he did) but after her coma, SB started looking at CJ with new eyes, influenced by SY (when they were at her family home, she was sooo flustered).

 

And SY was even more present after the lake scene. And you can see it through little elements, details, eg SB’s writing was improving, so were her embroidery skills (SB would have not been able to embroider that scarf by herself at the beginning of the drama). Another detail is the way SY and her father seem to always talk at the same time. SB started to shift from being only BH’s soul in SY’s body to being BH’s soul heavily influenced by SY’s. And to be fair, I think SB was aware, to some extent at least, that not all of her actions/reflections/feelings were her own (when doesn’t understand why she is aroused by CJ, when she misses him and wonders why it hurts so much…).

 

And to me what shows best SY’s presence is SB’s reaction to BI’s death. She’s literally in tears and horrified when she sees him die from afar. She breaks down in CJ’s arms saying BI died. SB was always rather cold to BI ; BH was not attached to him in any way. So why would SB react so strongly to BI’s death? Only because he saved her after trying to kill her?

 

As per CJ and him being spoiled of the man/woman/soul he really loves. I find KJH’s explanation on point. Throughout the whole drama, CJ has been explaining everything his wife did through his own perception and according to his own understanding. She was cold after sending him love letters all night? She must be shy. And so on. Just like he did for the banquet, finding a logical explanation for every plate, CJ, in my view, takes a situation and interprets it, according his knowledge, to fit his own perception of the world. As we all do honestly. So I think with BH’s soul gone, he will just do the same with SY.

 

So yeah, overall I think this drama was meant to end like that and the ending was hinted for quite some time in SB’s small but gradual changes in attitude.

 

Honestly, my only problem with the ending is that we did not see enough of SY and CJ together (kinda wanted to see their new dynamic and the babyyyy). If we had one or two scenes more, everyone would have been at least reassured in a way in regards to CJ’s future happiness (and I agree that the sentences like ‘Sometimes I feel like I’ve lost something’ do not help and it would have been better to just leave them out with that kind of ending). Plus a little something for BH as well would have been nice. Of course there are some loopholes (how did she not loose her baby? how did she recover so fast after almost loosing the baby?) but I mean, how did CJ recover so fast from the explosion? The whole goal was to be a funny drama while having a bit of politics/more serious topics on the side, so I don't really care about this stuff.

 

Anyway, this drama was a breeze of fresh air, very enjoyable, the acting was great, the drama was funny, I really liked it, and I think we should all just take a step back and just appreciate what a good time we had watching it! :)

This!!!!:ilike:

Couldn't have said it better!

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50 minutes ago, aisling said:

What if.... the writers didn’t give us this terrible ending because they planned but because they were forced by external pressure in the midway of the drama

 

 

I doubt it. In the scenes with my oppa Choi Jin Hyuk it was still late summer / early autumn, meaning that these scenes were filmed early on in the drama.

 

Also, he has been rumored to be ill in January / February (not sure how ill he has been, but he hasn't showed his face in a long time - not even for his birthday).

 

My own suspicion is that the drama got the ending that was planned from the start. :cry:

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16 minutes ago, partyon said:

 

I doubt it. In the scenes with my oppa Choi Jin Hyuk it was still late summer / early autumn, meaning that these scenes were filmed early on in the drama.

 

Also, he has been rumored to be ill in January / February (not sure how ill he has been, but he hasn't showed his face in a long time - not even for his birthday).

 

My own suspicion is that the drama got the ending that was planned from the start. :cry:

 

Well I had my hopes high for nothing then... I wanted to give an excuse for that terrible ending but if CJH didn’t shoot anything additional, then it means the writers screwed up big time. I thought they were pressured by all the complaints they received.

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10 minutes ago, aisling said:

 

Well I had my hopes high for nothing then... I wanted to give an excuse for that terrible ending but if CJH didn’t shoot anything additional, then it means the writers screwed up big time. I thought they were pressured by all the complaints they received.

Sorry @aisling :tears:

 

Since CJH is one of my main oppas, I follow news about him quite a lot.

 

I am just basing my assumptions on his scenes in ep 20 where the trees still had green leaves and it looked warm. And he had a post in the end of January on IG telling us that he was sick.

Z1JCrWP.jpg

 

It was when he wrote that Bong Hwan is sick, but apparently he had first posted that he was ill himself. Not sure why he later changed it to Bong Hwan....?

 

In any case, I think that the end game was always going to be what it turned out to be.

Even Go Princess Go had more sensible endings in my own opinion, but it was a surprise to me that the Mr. Queen writers did such a poor job with the ending.

 

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8 hours ago, cenching said:

 

Obviously you didn't read majority of my comment here....:coolshades: Let me tell you one more time, since the beginning I was never have any expectation that SB-CJ is the endgame and I do believe that everything must be put back to it's respective places but the writers were the one didn't do justice and respect the characters they wrote themselves. They did SY-SB down and dirty. They cheapen her as a character, it's NOT about the ending itself but it's about how they executed it. My beef is with the writers NOT the characters.

 

It is just a character afterall...:D

 

Anyway, like i said before, there are many potholes if not loopholes, in the drama and the somewhat rushed ending, is part of it; it could have been more but it was wasted on some unnecessary scenes to drag it to 20 episodes...... leaving hardcore fans angry (not me) and wanting more justice to the ending they feel was unjustified....hence the bamboo forest episodes... which bring some questions than answers on the plot again.... sigh... Nvm.. 

 

Anyways, time to move on for a new drama.B)

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Watching the first episode of Bamboo Forest. OMG, the Bionic Man sound effect when Hong Yeon picks up the weight.  :tounge_xd: Do South Koreans know The Six Million Dollar Man? (I am a child of the 70s.) I think the writers were justifying how she could hurl bombs a hundred feet (I sure was wondering).

 

And the love circle song has lyrics!

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Sorry all, don't want to intrude on the discussion on the final episode. 

Wanted to say I loved the show and it is currently my #1 Kdrama especially as a big fan of SHS (Yes I started liking her shows from her char in She was Pretty) 

 

Loved the scene where the Queen is urging the King to go finish his fight while the OST "Here I Am" is playing on the background. Just the stark difference in the Queen after BH soul has left was incredible. Cannot think of any other actress that can pull this off other than SHS.  

 

I have been trying to find this scene on Youtube but not having luck. Just wondering if anyone has a gif of the king slowmo walk towards the palace OR then the king is putting on the scarf for the queen and the queen delicate response. 

 

Loved the show!

Edited by Clemzstar
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10 hours ago, Mila said:

This soul exchange was necessary for comedy scenes. It wouldn't have been so funny if there hadn't been a man inside a woman's body trying to escape the feelings that SoYong had for her husband.
However, this instrument was absolutely inadequate for the purpose and ended up generating all the inconsistency. Basically, the writers wanted to harvest rice, but planted beans.

I've been thinking more about this. When a story starts, the writer makes a promise to the reader or viewer. That is to honor the rules of the genre.  When you set out to tell a romance (comedy), you promise to tell this story:

  • Boy meets girl
  • Boy loses girl
  • Boy and girl overcome obstacles
  • Boy gets girl (and vs. versa, of course)

This promise gives the viewer permission to invest in the relationship, the safety of knowing that however much it is threatened, the lovers will come together and that her or his emotional investment will be rewarded. 

 

Mr. Queen made the same promise, and followed that formula precisely. So what went wrong? Just this: when the boy gets the girl, define "girl". That is an unusual demand of a romance: "the girl" is the heroine, right? There isn't a debate.

 

In this case, there sure was! The writers should have anticipated that viewers were investing hours in a relationship between two kindred spirits that wasn't going to pay off. The writers broke that promise when the viewers' defenses were down. No wonder they flipped tables. 

 

Holy crap! Was the Bamboo Forest story featuring Jo Hwa Jin's novel really about Mr. Queen and its fans? Oh Wol kept telling her that the palace maids are going to go crazy over this love story, and that if she keeps it up, they are going to tear the palace down. "Why do you keep saying that?"

 

I would lay money on this whole sequence being based on conversations between the writers when the show became a hit.

 

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