[Drama 2020] Itaewon Class, 이태원 클라쓰

[Anjalifairy]

 

They date? 

Spoiler

 

 

[dvoran]

 

 

@AsveriaPSJ Hahaha hello all, I see my post has enraged many - understandable, as this show sits close to many people's hearts as well as my own - otherwise I won't be enjoying reading all your opinions )) As opinions go, I truly feel all are valid - I hope to make this clear as per my last post - the problem lies not with the writing, but me as a viewer with my own subjective thoughts on what "good" writing should be. Perhaps my choice or words came across as very insulting. Again I reiterate, good to me may be bad to you guys, which you have clearly expressed 

That said, it's my view (don't get too angry now haha) that Soo-Ah's character has not received the same attention as Yi-So's character as the drama progresses.

Is this deliberate? Of course it is - it's to focus on building SR and YS and showcase their growth.

Do I understand it? For sure I do - YS as SR's manager is indispensable to both himself and DanBam. His duty is to bring people together, and in the process forge close bonds and together, against all odds, defeat Jangga. Unbreakable team. Unity. Fall in love in the process? Sure!

We all agree that Yi-So is flawed from the get go. Officially she displays psychopathic tendencies etc etc.

But regarding Soo-Ah, my question is why? Perhaps @atlss says it more eloquently than I do in this paragraph:
 

5 hours ago, atlss said:

While the above could have worked, I'd like to throw the spotlight on SA.The sizzle-down writing of SA's character after such a satisfying build-up in the first 10 eps or so is probably my source of dissatisfaction. Here we have the writers introduce such a complex, real character with excruciating detail - opening metro scene showcasing her thoughts on self-reliance, her affection to SRY's father, her decision to call the cops on SRY as he went after GW (for his long-term greater good, very pragmatic), her rationality through all her actions (survival) and finally, that scene where she carried that horrible plant where he was battling the derailment of the JM investment showcasing her pragmatic approach to all things business and personal... and now, seemingly reduced to a too-bad-so-sad-you-chose-wrong crying character is just fish out of water for her . She's an influential, strong woman. Even if she finally has to face the consequences of her pragmatism (i.e. what you all have said, she'll feel empty), the writing needs to support that journey. 

 

They created in Soo-Ah a character full of potential, complexity and history in the first few episodes of the buildup and then subsequently left her to say repetitive empty lines which served no purpose. She is clearly flawed too, torn between money and "love" for SR and his gang. But the problem is she does absolutely nothing. Logically would a person that attached to SR sharing the same history be so passive? She was hurt by Jangga too - her "foster" father died, and she despised Jangga. She despised the first son, that much is clear.

Of course for the progression of the story, SA's role has to be downgraded - and that's where my dissatisfaction comes from. It's okay for SR to fall in love with YS. Do I like it? Not really.

But I don't think it is okay for SA to be portrayed as what I view as weak, passive, and helpless as the past episodes portrayed her. She literally did nothing. At least make her do something! Even a mistake to make SR choose YS over her would make more sense, no?

That said, in the previous episode, the Chairman made her realise how "tame" she has become. That took a while huh. My prediction? Logically after realising this and learning of SR's accident she has to do something right? Right or wrong, action must be taken by a supporting character that has shaped our lead character for the better part of his youth. And that's what I mean by resolution.

Will I like the ending? Maybe not.

Do I agree with Yi-Seo's methods and strange way of expressing her love? No way.

Am I not satisfied with her arc? Of course not.

Will I still enjoy watching the show? Hell yes! 

Edited March 17, 2020 by dvoran

[Alice Wonderland]

@Anjalifairy I hope they can share some pictures and short videos later on. And they have a date means that SR will be sent to hospital and be saved and so as YS. I hope the date won't show in the last minutes. Like RDTK ending, they can grant us with extra 30 minutes episodes as the change for their rating promise. 

 

I do see a lot of post keep doubting SR's feeling to YS. But whatever those doubts would be, SR told us clearly the one that conquers his heart and mind is YS. And I am so glad that is the fact. 

[Matilda_Anne]

16 hours ago, dvoran said:

There are many great K-dramas out there. Itaewon Class, isn't one of them.

personally i think this is one of the best kdramas ive seen so far~~ but each to their own i guess 

 

 

[Anjalifairy]

@Alice Wonderland

I really don't mind if IC do the same thing  Bcs webtoon only puts a small portion of their date part in the end of the story. After all the heartbreaking moments we'll definitely face later in the next episode, and all bitter nights Saeroy has passed, i think we, as viewers, deserve more their lovey dovey moments 

Btw, i saw some comments people hoping Park Bogum will make cameo as Sooah's bf 

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

[AsveriaPSJ]

2 hours ago, dvoran said:

 

 

@AsveriaPSJ Hahaha hello all, I see my post has enraged many - understandable, as this show sits close to many people's hearts as well as my own - otherwise I won't be enjoying reading all your opinions )) As opinions go, I truly feel all are valid - I hope to make this clear as per my last post - the problem lies not with the writing, but me as a viewer with my own subjective thoughts on what "good" writing should be. Perhaps my choice or words came across as very insulting. Again I reiterate, good to me may be bad to you guys, which you have clearly expressed 

That said, it's my view (don't get too angry now haha) that Soo-Ah's character has not received the same attention as Yi-So's character as the drama progresses.

Is this deliberate? Of course it is - it's to focus on building SR and YS and showcase their growth.

Do I understand it? For sure I do - YS as SR's manager is indispensable to both himself and DanBam. His duty is to bring people together, and in the process forge close bonds and together, against all odds, defeat Jangga. Unbreakable team. Unity. Fall in love in the process? Sure!

We all agree that Yi-So is flawed from the get go. Officially she displays psychopathic tendencies etc etc.

But regarding Soo-Ah, my question is why? Perhaps @atlss says it more eloquently than I do in this paragraph:
 

 

They created in Soo-Ah a character full of potential, complexity and history in the first few episodes of the buildup and then subsequently left her to say repetitive empty lines which served no purpose. She is clearly flawed too, torn between money and "love" for SR and his gang. But the problem is she does absolutely nothing. Logically would a person that attached to SR sharing the same history be so passive? She was hurt by Jangga too - her "foster" father died, and she despised Jangga. She despised the first son, that much is clear.

Of course for the progression of the story, SA's role has to be downgraded - and that's where my dissatisfaction comes from. It's okay for SR to fall in love with YS. Do I like it? Not really.

But I don't think it is okay for SA to be portrayed as what I view as weak, passive, and helpless as the past episodes portrayed her. She literally did nothing. At least make her do something! Even a mistake to make SR choose YS over her would make more sense, no?

That said, in the previous episode, the Chairman made her realise how "tame" she has become. That took a while huh. My prediction? Logically after realising this and learning of SR's accident she has to do something right? Right or wrong, action must be taken by a supporting character that has shaped our lead character for the better part of his youth. And that's what I mean by resolution.

Will I like the ending? Maybe not.

Do I agree with Yi-Seo's methods and strange way of expressing her love? No way.

Am I not satisfied with her arc? Of course not.

Will I still enjoy watching the show? Hell yes! 

I hope you will not blame me for saying this, but personally, yes, your initial words come across as very hard and kinda insulting to the show and the writing itself. Especially because you ended your conclusion with not something neutral to your own subjective feelings and perception, but with very straightforward verdict that “Itaewon Class is not a good drama”. Of course, everyone is entitled for their opinion and since this a peace of entertainment show we all bond to have different taste and perception, but that kind of criticism would come across as too strong for most people’s taste))) Especially if we consider the fact, that here mostly probably sit people that enjoy and love the show and they do expect criticism to more be understandable and reasonable rather than dismissive, ‘cause in all cases dismissing the work of the writer without making it sound (/clear) like your own subjective perception, but a hard fact wouldn’t resonate good with people who fundamentally have certain disagreements about characters. And using “l’m writer card” sometimes does make us sound patronizing 

 

Now about Oh Sooah. Here the perfect example how different perception by different people on different characters comes to it’s full power. First of all let’s just point out here very strong, that Oh Sooah is a secondary character. The writer actually made a great favor her (as I understood) by giving her bigger role in drama, than she ever had in his first work. Which should give you answer to your question. Why? Because it was never an intention. He elevated her “importance” more than she actually “deserves”, considering what kind of actual part in story she plays (and created for) and message she conveys. Whatever complex, strong and active parts you saw in her, I didn’t see it at all (and I still don’t). She was always weak, passive and helpless in my eyes. She passively sits around while someone was bullied, she passively says she would never rebel and never live the life like Parks, she passively accepts Jangga money for her education, she passively accepts their offer to work, she passively works for them despite hating them, she passively follows JDH’s orders, she passively spies on DanBam according to JDH’s orders, she passively agrees with Mr.Kim’s conclusion that they’re workers and should not rebel against their boss, she passively delivers that stupid pot of flowers, she passively keeps working for people that she hate according to her own believes. When Oh Sooah ever rebelled against her own situation or fought against something that was given or expected from her? She took opportunity to make her material life better. But that’s not rebelling. That’s opposite to it, because she felt herself pressed to accept that offer due to her own fear.  She was always, just like Saeroy said, on her very own side. She achieved everything she dreamed about by exactly doing noting, just by being a good employee to her employers. And she always expressed that desire and goal, by always choosing Jangga despite her personal feelings. She never showed strength, willingness to sacrifice her position or help someone. So why do you even expect her current situation to be any different if her writing was pretty cohesive and in line this whole time?))) Oh Sooah is a definition of getting too comfortable in your position and her passive, quite life without getting into any trouble or making a move to build something personal with people around her if it means compromising her

position the thing that lead her to having everything she dreamed about, but still not being satisfied or happy with her life after all. 
 

As much as you may not like Jo Yiseo and disagree with her methods her life progressed because she wasn’t a passive taker, but an active rebeller against expectations that was put on her. Same with Park Saeroy. All odds were against him the whole time, but he worked hard and he met the right people and at the end he still had the right attitude. He could’ve give up anytime, but never did. That’s why he also at the end received any necessary support on his journey. 

 

 

[Kimsungrin]

15 hours ago, ponderings said:

 

I love how you described Soo Ah's character and how she feels! I quoted my favorite parts in how you phrased her way of living which is choosing Janga. There's such a paradox as you stated. She thinks she's torn but she already made her choice! She hasn't accepted herself!! 

 

Well thank you . I am glad that you loved my description of her character.

You actually said it even clearer: a paradox!

 

I actually find it hard to think that all those years she liked PSRY (after all that happened: her being on Jangga's side and contributing to his many pitfalls) but didnt try to date him. From the beginning she never showed real love interest for him (except the one time she tried to kiss him while drunk). Indeed, she was satisfied with the fact that he had eyes only for her. But when she realized he was developing a special bond with JYS, she began to say she liked him and all...and now even asking him to give up on his revenge, to not go after JYS, cause now its not "all PSRY's eyes on her" anymore. 

To me she didnt lose her timing, she never intended to be with him. Again she had to choose: PSRY or professional and financial success even if its given by PSRY's enemy and she chose the latter

[Alice Wonderland]

1 hour ago, Anjalifairy said:

Btw, i saw some comments people hoping Park Bogum will make cameo as Sooah's bf 

Well, I'm one of the people who expect he will cameo as new investors and meet our wildcat instead. Hahaha. But I understand that wish tho. Well. Whatever it is. I'm glad we'll see PBG cameo soon!

 

About the ending, it's enough seeing SR in pain, hope they won't just show that spoiler fancam bts as the ending closure. Let SR meet YS's mom! Hahaha. I want to see how he'll react when her mom start inteviewing him many questions. Lol

[Kimsungrin]

21 hours ago, UnniSarah said:

* Clapping *  well said @greenwatch08 The bus trip they did become closer. Her tears to seeing his scars, her knowing him better than himself and when they are able to talk about anything makes them so special 

I remember the episode when she walked to him told he want him lol this scene you can see he was shaken in that scene. JYS believe in him from the start and stood by him. When she saw PSy she saw a man who is in pain and only wanted to help him get the freedom he wanted so much since the death of his father. 
 

 

So well said *claps*!

And if i can add something, his feelings for her/the fact that she was special to him also showed when they argued about firing JGS (i dont remember if its before or after the bus trip). That was the first time we saw a very angry and emotional PSRY towards one of his people. And he said it himself: what made him angry was JYS who he thought was on his side. That scene is one of the key scenes for me cause as i said before, it contrasted with him saying to OSA not to worry about being on one's side but to be on hers.

Also, did he used to pet the hair of any other danbam members? I am genuinely asking because i dont think so but i am not sure. To me, he only did it to JYS. And he stopped doing it after she confessed. At first, i thought he stopped because he began to aknowledge the fact that she was a woman in his eyes and not a dongsaeng, but maybe he stopped because he realized that he only did it to her which proved she was special + she actually stated it and made him feel embarassed by saying: "you always pet my hair" (and he didnt want to admit it then)

 

She always was special

Edited March 17, 2020 by Jillia
Please do not quote pics! Thanks!

[lollyminx]

5 hours ago, Anjalifairy said:

They date? 

Thank you! But was this taken today? They've only shot the final episode today? 

[ari_bian]

Very well said @serenilmauve  @greenwatch08 @AsveriaPSJ and @Clark Kent 

Thank you all for the great analysis about the story, about Sae Ro Yi and Yi Seo’s relationship development, about Soo Ah’s character progression and about the writing. Agree with all that you wrote in response to some people’s dissatisfaction of where the story is heading and the lack of change or “redemption” to Soo Ah’s character. 
I thought to try my hand in explaining what I think about Soo Ah but I might not be able to clearly express what I think the point of her character is... good thing I saw in reddit a post about Soo Ah that I find brilliantly explained the point of her character. So I thought to share it here...

 

- from reddit comment By eldene

 

I don't think that it's lazy writing at all. It's brilliant, in fact, because plot isn't the only thing that goes into a story. There are also character exposition, themes and sub-text to consider and Soo-ah is important to all of that.

Most importantly, Soo-ah is Seo-ro-yi's foil in the story. As his opposite, she puts his major character traits into sharp relief so that we can fully see and appreciate them.

She is also his living reminder of a past and a father that he loved, lost and is exacting revenge for. She is the next generation, living the company dedicated, servile life that his father lived as well.

She represents all of the people who could be liberated if Seo-ro-y's 'employee-as-well-as-customer-centered' business model eventually wins or at least survives next to that of CEO-and-his-family centered model of Jangga.

Finally, Soo-ah is our eyes and ears at Jangga. We see into the company through her eyes.

There's more but the point is that she certainly isn’t unnecessary.

It's her existence and her inaction that are the meaningful things about her. 

Soo-ah is just like SRYs father and is almost a continuation of him. They stay with, and serve, the company, with no particular credit or reward, despite harsh and unfair treatment, because they need/want a good, stable job and life. They represent the 'fortunate' people in the status quo world where it's an ideal of many people to land that good office job at a big company and hold onto it no matter what. But this is the root of their servility and the CEOs power.

SRY is their opposite. He is someone who strikes out against the status quo world and it's injustices, determined to rebel for a free life, no matter the consequences. SRYs dad and SA both value and are, somewhat, in awe of SYR but neither could be like him in the status quo world without (or maybe even with) a safety net. They're a part of that system and only, maybe, able to break out of it because of SYR who gets his dad fired and plans to get SA fired or create a new IC job for her ... by beating Jangga and creating a new system where employees are valued and may find freedom too. 

This, in my view, (especially with info from recent scenes) is the big picture message and theme of Itaewon Class. Can someone like PSYR create a new world for himself and for all the currently servile people who are like his dad and Soo-ah? Can he create a company/world where they can be more proactive and more free?

Edit. This is a major diss on the big (often chaebol run) company and company man model that feeds on but is likely to spit out all the people who want so desperately to get that white collar job in Seoul. We live in a world where the big corporations use almost- slave-labour for profit without there being the benefits that company people used to enjoy (mainly loyalty, stability, benefits). The authors message seems pretty clear. The hero represents a certain kind of more fair, more accessible, more freeing change.

 

here is the link to where you can find the post above

https://www.reddit.com/r/KDRAMA/comments/fiezh3/comment/fkisj2g

 

 

[serenilmauve]

Spoiler

 

 

credit: lee-taeri

 

[tok-soompi]

Just read dramabeans ep 13 and really like the following comments from dramallama:

 

Yi-seo’s sharp observations about Soo-ah really turned the tables, and I can tell that Soo-ah is losing her momentum with Sae-ro-yi. It seems like Soo-ah continued to wait through those four years, during which Danbam, Sae-ro-yi, and Yi-seo all grew and achieved new milestones. That’s four years of complacency while your love and rival built something together. At this point, I don’t know how to make a case for Soo-ah to win over Sae-ro-yi. Their long history now seems more like a nostalgic childhood first love than something real. Hustling alongside Sae-ro-yi is something very real and tangible. Yi-seo has witnessed and contributed to the success of Sae-ro-yi as a CEO, which is intimately tied to his personal endeavors. Something like that can’t be beat by nostalgia, and I’m rooting for Sae-ro-yi to realize that the person at his side, the person who constantly confesses her love, the person he can’t fire, is the person he’s come to depend on beyond just as a business partner.

[UnniSarah]

7 hours ago, dvoran said:

But I don't think it is okay for SA to be portrayed as what I view as weak, passive, and helpless as the past episodes portrayed her. She literally did nothing. At least make her do something! Even a mistake to make SR choose YS over her would make more sense, no?

Hi @dvoran When I first started watching this drama. I disliked SA and her flaws but as the drama progresses I was able to understand her flaws and why. Maybe the writing isn’t awesome but my take on the drama is about “ THE CHOICES YOU MAKE IN LIFE THAT DEFINES A PERSON” So  I don’t consider SA as weak , passive and helpless. Remember throughout the whole drama  PSYR has never hated the people he care about for the choices they made because he understood they all trying to SURVIVE. Also knowing these choices they made has consequences and they are the one who have to live with it. He would always say Whatever you do, I’ll be just fine!! 
for example 
Jang Dae Hee accepted his choices and lived  with the consequences and never regretted it. Even knowing he is dying and of cancer he was fine with it because his dream came true.

SA regret her choice on how she handled PSR because she wanted to be independent, have her dream house and own a car but there was one thing she missing in that equation was sharing her new found happiness with someone she loves . She sided with Jangga because she didn’t want to be poor and she did make that choice. She was afraid of JDH but still chose to keep on working for him. She made decisions that didn’t breech her moral codes and she still was a realist.   I hope this comment can change your view a bit. Another thing I believe SA loves PSR as a family not a lover. Maybe I am wrong but SA has NEVER SAID THE WORD TO PSR “ I LIKE YOU” unlike PSR always said the word I like you. From the beginning SA made demand because no one would get in her way of achieving her goals for a much better life. In a way she did do something wrong. Pressuring PSR to say the word when she herself never said them.  Hope this make sense 

 

@tok-soompi and @ari_bian Thank you for sharing those comments on the drama. 
@Kimsungrin He only petted Jo Yiseo’s hair. 

[serenilmauve]

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

fanarts

[ponderings]

4 hours ago, Kimsungrin said:

 

Well thank you . I am glad that you loved my description of her character.

You actually said it even clearer: a paradox!

 

I actually find it hard to think that all those years she liked PSRY (after all that happened: her being on Jangga's side and contributing to his many pitfalls) but didnt try to date him. From the beginning she never showed real love interest for him (except the one time she tried to kiss him while drunk). Indeed, she was satisfied with the fact that he had eyes only for her. But when she realized he was developing a special bond with JYS, she began to say she liked him and all...and now even asking him to give up on his revenge, to not go after JYS, cause now its not "all PSRY's eyes on her" anymore. 

To me she didnt lose her timing, she never intended to be with him. Again she had to choose: PSRY or professional and financial success even if its given by PSRY's enemy and she chose the latter

 

I totally agree with you! She definitely never lost her timing. She never intended to be with him. In order to justify her choice in life and to like him, she always set a condition for PSRY. That prison scene in episode 2 really defined their relationship. PSRY tells her she never did anything wrong and he respected her choice. 

 

On the other hand, YS likes PSRY the way he is. But I am just slightly disappointed in the last episode. YS has been working too hard in order to justify her confessions to PSRY. I felt like YS and SA swapped hairstyles along with their behaviors toward PSRY. 

 

If there is one thing to take away from SA and YS's characters in liking someone, you don't have to change and/or prove yourself to like someone. You don't have to set a condition to change the other person. If you like someone, then go ahead. Moreover, remember to love yourself. Self-love is so important! 

 

 

 

[serenilmauve]

 

 

 

[sodarn]

16 hours ago, Alice Wonderland said:

Just read this... Park Bo Gum wiill be cameon IC's final!! Whoah... is this part of the surprise ending the writer ever told before???

 

 

I'm curious what role he gets here, so excited!

https://www.soompi.com/article/1388514wpp/park-bo-gum-confirmed-to-make-cameo-in-itaewon-class-finale

Is it too much if I wish his character gets PSR nervous and jealous by hitting on JYS? Maybe he'll be a former crush, a bit like Goblin and Eun Tak's childhood crush Tae Hee Oppa

[Alice Wonderland]

@sodarn oh... I like that idea too. Honestly part of me wishes that could be the matter. But well I don't think it's possible. Cause as I remember JYS doesn't really care about love before she met SR. And the only secret admirer of her is JGS. But well if the wtiter wills, he can make whatever scenario for that. Like he's their new influential investor who comes to IC for another mega hit project of the company for a world scale expansion of their business. 

 

Btw looking for those casts pictures signs the drama will end soon and it means I won't have any dramas to watch on fri-sat after IC. Cause the new one seems would be not my cup of tea. 

[serenilmauve]