[Drama 2020] It's Okay not to be Okay, 사이코지만 괜찮아

[YongZura⁷]

11 minutes ago, blademan said:

Same top?

 

Honestly can't wait to see their dynamic in this scene 

Cred. Soompi

 

She was staying at his house that night.... so...  (this is just an assumption that it is the day after that) 

[TiNaDo]

@Sejabin, half true, in my opinion, yes. But I found her speech about "destiny" on several times something like a mockery - along the lines of you ordinary people call it "destiny," right? Not truly believing in it. Aaand this is the "half true" part, actually. Because she openly mocks others in front of them but when she is alone, she is afraid and she is sensitive. We saw it how she mocked KMT for his "butterfly hug" when they were together; yet, she applied the very same hug when she was alone and scared.

[Not Me]

anyone got access for full video of the interview?they blocked the YT video in my region, from IG & Twitter video the duration only 1min, i dont think it's that short  so i searched on naver and it's 11mins long

why they blocked it from international viewersss..arghhhh!

 

here's Naver link: https://tv.naver.com/v/14606656

 

 

[Ahpheng]

 

[YongZura⁷]

A selca with MY - MST as the photographer

 

 

 

 

 

Credit to tvN

[Misstinker]

4 hours ago, bebebisous33 said:

I still don't believe in this diagnosis ASPD. First, it was stated by the journalist who tried to blackmail her. How can we take his words seriously? Secondly, these are the characteristics for a person suffering from ASPD. 

• socially irresponsible behavior
• disregarding or violating the rights of others
• inability to distinguish between right and wrong
• difficulty with showing remorse or empathy
• tendency to lie often
• manipulating and hurting others
• recurring problems with the law
• Hostility, significant irritability, agitation, aggression or violence
• general disregard towards safety and responsibility (quoted from) https://www.healthline.com/health/psychopath#signs /

• Failure to consider the negative consequences of behavior or learn from them
• Impulsiveness or failure to plan ahead
• quoted from: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/antisocial-personality-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20353928

Just because she is stealing doesn't make her a sociopath. I would rather say that she is suffering from cleptomania. Then when she tried to stab the man, we shouldn't forget that she acted after witnessing how the little girl had been hurt and she had been called a lunatic due to her words. She was definitely affected by his words. Sure, her action was morally and legally wrong but even a normal person affected by a crime can retaliate. Why do we have people who ask for death penalty or kills someone out of revenge or hurt? These persons are never called sociopaths or psychopaths. They do it on affect. Then committing a crime like driving too fast... should we call all these persons who are driving carelessly also sociopaths?

Sure, you will answer that the addition of her wrongdoings is the problem. Yet, if you read all the features, you'll notice that many of them are not visible in MY.

 

She defended the right of ST and demonstrated that the person who committed a crime was the father. He assaulted ST first. Who lied later? The parents... She shows that she is able to feel empathy for others... and not just one person like ST but also for MT, the son of the politician and the patients from that psychiatry institution. She is willing to defend the weak ones. She knew what kind of problems they had hence she chose the right fairy tales for them.

 

She is listening to MT and realized her mistake, hence she decided to keep her word in the end. She went to pay a visit to her father like she had promised. She followed MT's advice and reproach. So she is learning her lessons too and she shows some regret.

 

She is not violent per se, she becomes aggressive, when she is threatened, like with the journalist or with the suicidal father. 

Then she doesn't lie as she is very honest with MT and even with the son of the politician. She doesn't hide her disdain and contempt for others... she is brutally honest. She knows how to be responsible for ST and she did that on many occasions. She shows more empathy towards weak persons because she knows deep down that the so-called normal people can be the most dangerous ones. That's why there is this work written by Hanna Arendt "Banalität des Bösen" (German)/ "Banality of Evil" because the normal people were the ones responsible for the Holocaust and not the mentally unstable ones. Her book represents an plea to civil courage and empathy... to stop people from discriminating and hurting others due to their differences. And this is exactly what MY is doing.

 

Her methods might be too rough and unorthodox but her intention is clear. Besides, she wanted to suffer the consequences of her actions (she asked to be called for the "kidnapping") but MT chose otherwise. 

 

My point is the following. She has definitely issues but she is not per se suffering from ASPD. Her cleptomania is a signal. She wants to get attention as she has always felt lonely. If she was suffering from ASPD, no doctor in his right mind would entrust her with mentally unstable patients. This would be dangerous and could be considered as a crime. She has been isolated all her life hence she needs to be reintegrated into society and to meddle with people that's why the doctor proposed her this offer. He knows that she has problems but we shouldn't forget that she did sign the papers for her father in the end. She didn't even stop her father while he was strangling her, she didn't even retaliate which shows how his first murder attempt has left a deep scar in her heart. 

 

She is an asocial person as she didn't really grow up in society, was secluded due to her familial situation and later due to her career and stigmatization as sociopath/psychopath. In my opinion, there is a reason why she was hesitating to save the boy (the flower), she had never received any help before and she didn't know the true value of a human being. Her own mother described her as an object, the perfect creation.   

 

Thank you very much you are correct and did your research I'm very surprised the drama didnt they pick a disorder and give her some symptoms and called it a day also a person cant be diagnosed with ASPD as an adult it can only be diagnosed in a child if your an adult it cant be proven I'm just saying if they want to bring awareness they should atlease do it correctly so they dont confuse people I dont think people really know what ASPD is like that's a scary diagnosis serial kills are diagnosed with ASPD our girl just a little off 

[bebebisous33]

10 minutes ago, Misstinker said:

Thank you very much you are correct and did your research I'm very surprised the drama didnt they pick a disorder and give her some symptoms and called it a day also a person cant be diagnosed with ASPD as an adult it can only be diagnosed in a child if your an adult it cant be proven I'm just saying if they want to bring awareness they should atlease do it correctly so they dont confuse people I dont think people really know what ASPD is like that's a scary diagnosis serial kills are diagnosed with ASPD our girl just a little off 

Thanks for the compliment! I am no psychologist, just a teacher and as such, I am very careful with any diagnosis/judgement.

 

I had one student who was suffering from Tourette Syndrome and it was only diagnosed, when I was his teacher. The thing is that due to his behavior, his teacher from his primary school got a very bad impression of him and even thought that he would never get a high school diploma. She was expecting he would get bad grads in my French class, when I met her by coincidence. 

 

But even if his "illness" meant more work for me, I did everything in my power so that his classmates wouldn't condemn him therefore I took deliberately his side, showing that this was nothing extraordinary. He just had an handicap. So he did get his high school diploma and this parents rewarded me for my encouraging behavior.

 

That's why it is very important to be careful with any judgement or diagnosis (first he was categorized as child suffering from ADHD) and always show understanding. Understanding doesn't mean that the person won't get scolded for wrongdoings. 

[midflight]

Spoiler

 

5 hours ago, bebebisous33 said:

I still don't believe in this diagnosis ASPD. First, it was stated by the journalist who tried to blackmail her. How can we take his words seriously? Secondly, these are the characteristics for a person suffering from ASPD. 

• socially irresponsible behavior
• disregarding or violating the rights of others
• inability to distinguish between right and wrong
• difficulty with showing remorse or empathy
• tendency to lie often
• manipulating and hurting others
• recurring problems with the law
• Hostility, significant irritability, agitation, aggression or violence
• general disregard towards safety and responsibility (quoted from) https://www.healthline.com/health/psychopath#signs /

• Failure to consider the negative consequences of behavior or learn from them
• Impulsiveness or failure to plan ahead
• quoted from: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/antisocial-personality-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20353928

Just because she is stealing doesn't make her a sociopath. I would rather say that she is suffering from cleptomania. Then when she tried to stab the man, we shouldn't forget that she acted after witnessing how the little girl had been hurt and she had been called a lunatic due to her words. She was definitely affected by his words. Sure, her action was morally and legally wrong but even a normal person affected by a crime can retaliate. Why do we have people who ask for death penalty or kills someone out of revenge or hurt? These persons are never called sociopaths or psychopaths. They do it on affect. Then committing a crime like driving too fast... should we call all these persons who are driving carelessly also sociopaths?

Sure, you will answer that the addition of her wrongdoings is the problem. Yet, if you read all the features, you'll notice that many of them are not visible in MY.

 

She defended the right of ST and demonstrated that the person who committed a crime was the father. He assaulted ST first. Who lied later? The parents... She shows that she is able to feel empathy for others... and not just one person like ST but also for MT, the son of the politician and the patients from that psychiatry institution. She is willing to defend the weak ones. She knew what kind of problems they had hence she chose the right fairy tales for them.

 

She is listening to MT and realized her mistake, hence she decided to keep her word in the end. She went to pay a visit to her father like she had promised. She followed MT's advice and reproach. So she is learning her lessons too and she shows some regret.

 

She is not violent per se, she becomes aggressive, when she is threatened, like with the journalist or with the suicidal father. 

Then she doesn't lie as she is very honest with MT and even with the son of the politician. She doesn't hide her disdain and contempt for others... she is brutally honest. She knows how to be responsible for ST and she did that on many occasions. She shows more empathy towards weak persons because she knows deep down that the so-called normal people can be the most dangerous ones. That's why there is this work written by Hanna Arendt "Banalität des Bösen" (German)/ "Banality of Evil" because the normal people were the ones responsible for the Holocaust and not the mentally unstable ones. Her book represents an plea to civil courage and empathy... to stop people from discriminating and hurting others due to their differences. And this is exactly what MY is doing.

 

Her methods might be too rough and unorthodox but her intention is clear. Besides, she wanted to suffer the consequences of her actions (she asked to be called for the "kidnapping") but MT chose otherwise. 

 

My point is the following. She has definitely issues but she is not per se suffering from ASPD. Her cleptomania is a signal. She wants to get attention as she has always felt lonely. If she was suffering from ASPD, no doctor in his right mind would entrust her with mentally unstable patients. This would be dangerous and could be considered as a crime. She has been isolated all her life hence she needs to be reintegrated into society and to meddle with people that's why the doctor proposed her this offer. He knows that she has problems but we shouldn't forget that she did sign the papers for her father in the end. She didn't even stop her father while he was strangling her, she didn't even retaliate which shows how his first murder attempt has left a deep scar in her heart. 

 

She is an asocial person as she didn't really grow up in society, was secluded due to her familial situation and later due to her career and stigmatization as sociopath/psychopath. In my opinion, there is a reason why she was hesitating to save the boy (the flower), she had never received any help before and she didn't know the true value of a human being. Her own mother described her as an object, the perfect creation.   

 

 

55 minutes ago, Misstinker said:

Thank you very much you are correct and did your research I'm very surprised the drama didnt they pick a disorder and give her some symptoms and called it a day also a person cant be diagnosed with ASPD as an adult it can only be diagnosed in a child if your an adult it cant be proven I'm just saying if they want to bring awareness they should atlease do it correctly so they dont confuse people I dont think people really know what ASPD is like that's a scary diagnosis serial kills are diagnosed with ASPD our girl just a little off 

 

 

 

As much as I understand where you are coming from, I would have to disagree with this. True to her bio and synopsis, Go Moon-young has ASPD. I explained it in full detail in this Twitter post, with screenshots to prove that her behavior is exhibited in the DSM-5 for ASPD--and this is under the assumption that she has been doing this before she was 15 (as seen in the animation that was placed in the first episode) and that she is not schizophrenic or diagnosed with bipolar disorder. 

 

 

 

Like other personality disorders, Moon-young cannot be diagnosed with ASPD before she reaches 18 years old. In the story, Moon-young is 30 years old, so she can be diagnosed with this already. At the same time, she showed signs of conduct disorder when she was younger. 

 

Here is another interesting clinical feature of ASPD (from Kaplan and Sadock's Synopsis of Psychiatry 11th edition):

"Patients with antisocial personality disorder can often seem to be normal and even charming and ingratiating. Their histories, however, reveal many areas of disordered life functioning... In fact, they frequently have a heightened sense of reality testing and often impress observers as having good verbal intelligence. Persons with ASPD are highly representative of so-called con men." 

 

According to the book, patients with ASPD can deceive psychiatrists as well. That's how it is. And given the course of discussion online, I think the show is doing a good job at portraying what it is. It is very difficult to tell apart their intention--if it's for manipulation or genuine. On the flip side, just because Moon-young has ASPD doesn't mean that she doesn't have emotions. She can still have emotions; it's just that she doesn't respect or she violates the rights of others.

 

I'm grateful that there are people like you who choose to understand her character instead of openly judging her. And I am really glad that we have a show like this that opens up a lot of discussion regarding mental health. Please stay safe.

[peanuts281]

1 hour ago, YongZura⁷ said:

A selca with MY - MST as the photographer

 

 

Credit to tvN

 MST as photographer is so cute (the chicks ) the selfie 

 

MST as a fan of MY is even more cute!

 

But the interaction between the two is the cutest 

it's so cute how MST acts like a happy puppy when seeing MY

and MY is so cute, fun and respectful against MST. She doesn't treat him as someone abnormal, she gives him fan service like he's the president of her fan club 

 

I love the scenes with them almost just as much as between our lovable leads. I think MST will be very happy if she becomes part of the family and he can call her "sadoon" (in-law). But that's going ahead too fast. I'm enjoying the current relationship right now 

[hwonhwon_stv]

Kim Soo Hyun update his IG

 

 

[hwonhwon_stv]

2020.07.03   “It’s Okay To Not Be Okay Kim Soo Hyun” is trending NO 7 on Naver Entertainments-Sports Section

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They really look like the version of each other

 

 

 

 

[arcchidus]

10 hours ago, midflight said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

 

As much as I understand where you are coming from, I would have to disagree with this. True to her bio and synopsis, Go Moon-young has ASPD. I explained it in full detail in this Twitter post, with screenshots to prove that her behavior is exhibited in the DSM-5 for ASPD--and this is under the assumption that she has been doing this before she was 15 (as seen in the animation that was placed in the first episode) and that she is not schizophrenic or diagnosed with bipolar disorder. 

 

 

I agree with you. I do think she has ASPD like her bio said. Lots of rich and powerful people have ASPD. It’s said that as many as 5% of upper management have it. 
 

Also based on this BBC article... https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20171102-do-psychopaths-really-make-better-leaders

 

It is commonly thought that psychopaths don’t feel any guilt or remorse, but recent research shows they are capable of such negative emotions, but only when something impacts them directly. In other words, if they hurt someone else, they won’t be racked with guilt like someone else might, but if a situation leaves them worse off they would feel regret.

 

A series of studies in 2014 found that those prone to feeling guilt tend to avoid forming interdependent relationships with other people they perceive to be more competent than themselves. The reason - the prospect of not contributing enough to the relationship could make them feel guilty.

 

But clearly there are upsides to feeling guilt too. The studies also found that when guilt-prone people do form these relationships, they work harder to avoid letting people down. A study from Stanford Graduate School of Business also found that guilt can act as a motivator. It also helps guide people morally by acting as a deterrent from doing things that are legally and morally wrong. 

 

In other words, for our FL to become a better person in social view, she literally will need someone she feels she would be worse of losing and thus wants to impress (eg our ML) to be in her life to be a motivator to behave morally. 

Edited July 3, 2020 by Berou
please don't quote images, thanks !

[screwdila]

 

Enjoy 

[superbigcat]

As Seo Ji said that through this drama, she has been understanding more about herself.

 

As Soo Hyun did his personal life with past complex relationships and stories.

 

Upon those, I believe that this drama is not only a healing journey of its characters, a meaning message to people who have mental issues out there, but also has great meanings to KSH and SYJ. 

 

While waiting for Saturday and Sunday to come, I've marathon here and there, still cannot roll myself over this favorite scene:

 

When KT, who always tries to be calm and MY, who always keep her chin up

put off their guards 

as they cross their limits of emotions 

no words needed, since we can feel the pain through their body languages and facial expressions. 

 

And the moment he appeared, look at her relief face as if she was saved, not physically, but emotionally. This marks their turning point in this journey.

 

And I need to mention the high cinematic quality that has so many meanings in just one frame. Will they be the guiding light to each other? 

 

 

(Photo edit by me)

[midflight]

2 hours ago, arcchidus said:

I agree with you. I do think she has ASPD like her bio said. Lots of rich and powerful people have ASPD. It’s said that as many as 5% of upper management have it. 
 

Also based on this BBC article... https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20171102-do-psychopaths-really-make-better-leaders

 

It is commonly thought that psychopaths don’t feel any guilt or remorse, but recent research shows they are capable of such negative emotions, but only when something impacts them directly. In other words, if they hurt someone else, they won’t be racked with guilt like someone else might, but if a situation leaves them worse off they would feel regret.

 

A series of studies in 2014 found that those prone to feeling guilt tend to avoid forming interdependent relationships with other people they perceive to be more competent than themselves. The reason - the prospect of not contributing enough to the relationship could make them feel guilty.

 

But clearly there are upsides to feeling guilt too. The studies also found that when guilt-prone people do form these relationships, they work harder to avoid letting people down. A study from Stanford Graduate School of Business also found that guilt can act as a motivator. It also helps guide people morally by acting as a deterrent from doing things that are legally and morally wrong. 

 

In other words, for our FL to become a better person in social view, she literally will need someone she feels she would be worse of losing and thus wants to impress (eg our ML) to be in her life to be a motivator to behave morally. 

 

I'm glad that so far, the show is portraying it this way. Can't wait for the episode later! Thanks for putting all the links! I am learning a lot! <3

[riajhart]

I've never commented before but I've seen some people talking about disorders as if they are just a checklist and I thought I would impart my perspective.

 

First, as some others have said, people with ASPD have emotions. Every human has them, they just have them and deal with them differently, that's all. 

 

Second, any disorder is a SPECTRUM. Two people with ASPD can be very similar but they aren't identical. That's why while checklists are a useful guide, they are just that, a guide, not a rule.

 

Third, people with ASPD can experience emotional empathy. Think of it as a switch if you will. In people with ASPD that switch is off but with effort they can turn it on, maybe not constantly. They do have a disorder and it won't just magically disappear, but they can learn to deal with it.

 

Also, they tend to have a high cognitive empathy, that's why it's so easy for them to manipulate others in the first place. They can identify their emotions, see how it affects them and use that to their favour. 

 

Not all people with ASPD are murderers and a disorder doesn't make the whole person. MY can have ASPD and have good qualities worthy of being admired but still need to improve in other areas. That's just how we all are, humans aren't perfect. People with disorders just need time to learn how to navigate them.

 

While I understand being doubtful because dramas have a long history of doing mental illness wrong... before criticizing I would encourage first to educate oneself before trying to speak on the subject, keep an open mind as disorders aren't black and white and to finish the drama before deciding if the disorder was well represented or not. From what we've seen there's really nothing that says the writer has taken their job lightly, but there's many episodes yet to come.

 

I would also like to remind that the title is "It's okay to not be okay". MY is who she is and while she can learn to deal with her issues in a healthier way for herself and others, she isn't required to be perfect at it.

 

Whatever her motivations may be, it's been shown she wants to improve. She has been doing active efforts to do so, like thinking long and hard why KT had been mad at her or using the butterfly hug, which shows she's open to listen and that's a start.

 

Also, it's been shown that while she is impulsive and she has her own morality, she doesn't go around hurting people gratuitously.

 

Anyway, these kind of dramas are SO important. They start conversations, bring awarenes and help open minds. I hope the writer and the director keep on the amazing job they have been doing.

[softestfairy]

I believe she does have ASPD. I don't think they would market the show/MY's character that way for nothing and they have tried to show it through her actions. 

 

Which is great because it's breaking the stigma especially in a country like SK. A lot of people write off those suffering from ASPD as narcissists/bad people and don't consider it a legit disorder like autism, etc. Seeing MY struggle with this and try to work through it will open people's eyes to this.

 

Even if the average Korean isn't open to this type of subject matter I hope this drama wins awards because it deserves esp if the level of quality continues to the end. 

[Ahpheng]

 

[bairama]

 

I’m too old for fairy tales. 
           I think you’re just the right age for it. 
…
          I can see that you want to be loved.

 

 

cr. kwakkitae tumblr

[40somethingahjumma]

When I look at the Zombie Kid as a window into Mun-yeong's soul, it does seem to suggest at some point she was diagnosed with ASPD. Admittedly I'm no expert and I'm somewhat sceptical of modern psychology's propensity to slap labels on people but it doesn't take away from the fact that she's a broken human being. Just as Kwon Gi-do is one. And perhaps Gang-tae as well. Whatever these individuals came to the world as, Zombie Kid suggests to me that indifferent or poor parenting made things far worse than they needed to be. So in a sense whether or not MY has ASPD is really not relevant because there's something eating at her that's making her act in the way she does. She, I believe, wants help and is crying out for it. What I understood from the Zombie Kid is that unhealthy parenting is as much a factor in mental health issues as is any kind of innate disposition. It could be too that individuals with mental health issues are self-fulfilling endgames caused by environmental factors. A child might manifest certain tendencies at a young age and if their parents insist on treating them according to the tendencies they might end up becoming what their parents only suspected. What the Zombie Kid implies is that what kids really need is love whatever their psychological tendencies or intellectual propensities. Who knows... some of them might outgrow their psychological deficiencies and become fully functional members of society without any need for clinical intervention.

 

Kwon Gi-do it seemed to me was a relatively normal kid who wasn't particularly bright or at least not academically driven. His parents had certain expectations of him and compared him to his older siblings who presumably excelled academically and professionally. They were the kids that mum and dad could trot out and brag about to their friends. He, on the other hand, was undeniably a disappointment to them and that affected all their interactions. 

 

Those of us who are parents of more than one child know this. Every child is different at different stages. I certainly don't hold to the tabula rasa thesis (the evidence is overwhelming in that regard) but in the developmental phase the kind of nurture they receive is equally important. It seems to me that our job as parents first and foremost is to love our kids however they come to us because that has a powerful effect on how they develop into adults.

 

This may be a much bigger issue in SK society where a child's entire existence from the moment they're born is directed towards getting a place in the university which will increase their chances of getting a better job or a better future. Where every member is a cog of a well-oiled machinery. Just imagine if you are an ambitious personality and you have a child who doesn't fit into that mould of excellence. Often what happens is that they would take out their disappointment on the child through neglect or undue harshness. And in so doing create an even bigger problem for yourself and society. Parenting is an investment not primarily in financial or even academic terms. Money can never be a substitute. Good parenting is an investment in a child's future. And society's future as well.

 

So to me the story of KGD is a parable of that particular society in how it plays out. It's less of a mental health issue per se than one of social pressures having a flow-on effect. KGD's mental health issue is symptomatic of a number of larger social issues. A functional family is foundational to a functional society. That's why the role of family not just to an individual's development but all of society is vital.

 

This is why I suspect that what MY has been diagnosed with is more a result of what her mother has done to her than any kind of innate propensity.

 

The stark cannibalism in Zombie Kid also shows that often times parents sacrifice themselves unnecessarily for their children. Or give them things the children don't necessarily need or want. In reality most kids don't want all that much. Their material appetites fall in line with how they're brought up. From my own observations they just want to have a healthy relationship with their mum and dads.