[Drama 2020] Alice, 앨리스

[flutterby06]

The moment she meets the child again, the child will be in control of time!!

 

 

The teaser of next episodes seems so cool.. Can't wait!

 

 

[Sleepy Owl]

6 minutes ago, kireeti2 said:

Episode 5 preview

In the preview they sort of showed that Tae-Yi from the university and Park Jin-Gyeom's mom two different persons, like in the preview we can clearly see that Jin-Gyeom went to 1992 and saw Tae-Yi in the university and called her mom from a phone booth, so can we say that Tae-Yi in 2020 is not his mom? I got confused when you guys said that Tae-Yi in 2020 was his mom, like they might share same personality and name, but it's like that she is his mom, since this might be her alternate life, like if she took another path altogether 

I didn't see the preview yet. But let me try explain what I and many more had been saying whole time. 

 

Tae Yi a Prof. in university joins Alice or gets involved with it. She goes to future, and then travels to 1992 in order to retrieve the book. But she stays. 

 

Now in 1992, Tae Yi was already born and was 3-4 years old. One of the reasons time-traveler Tae Yi changed her name is because of this too. That's why in current timeline we see 2 Tae Yi present. But they are the same person, just like that little kid's mom shown. That's why Jon Gyeom's mom said to ignore her if he ever saw her in future, it's because she knows that she as Tae Yi exists in the timeline. 

 

I hope I cleared your confusion and didn't cause more confusion to you. Park Sun Young and Yoon Tae Yi are same. Although I'll comment in details after I'm done with the episode. 

[flutterby06]

30 minutes ago, kireeti2 said:

Episode 5 preview

In the preview they sort of showed that Tae-Yi from the university and Park Jin-Gyeom's mom two different persons, like in the preview we can clearly see that Jin-Gyeom went to 1992 and saw Tae-Yi in the university and called her mom from a phone booth, so can we say that Tae-Yi in 2020 is not his mom? I got confused when you guys said that Tae-Yi in 2020 was his mom, like they might share same personality and name, but it's like that she is his mom, since this might be her alternate life, like if she took another path altogether 

 

Doesn't matter if she changes her path two Yoon Tae Yi are same person.. both were in same timeline because Yoon Tae Yi 2050 stayed at 1992. That's how two Tae Yi lived simultaneously in the same timeline until Tae Yi 2050 died.. That's why Jin Gyeom sees both Yoon Tae Yi living at the same time. Present Professor Tae Yi is not Jin Gyeom's Mom yet(because she hasn't reached the time where woul'd give birth to Jin Gyeom) but that doesn't change the fact that they're same person. May be in future she will change her action but she'll be still the same person.

 

Think about Yoon Soo Omma. She met her other self and that person even killed her! But that doesn't mean she is not the same person. There might be some after effect.

 

I didn't see many time travel show, so I don't  know the standard mechanism but I find two Tae Yi the same person clearly.. Like her sister at 2020 says that other than personality all the detailed behavior Jin Gyeom said about Professor Tae Yi is true.. That's because after becoming a single mother Tae Yi must've become more patient, compassionate and friendly personality so she and her son can easily blend with a regular society, so Jin Gyeomi can learn and be more empathetic.. to me it was totally understandable. 

[bibianni19]

Hi everyone

 

For ep 5 preview, i believe Jin Gyeom travelled back to 2010, not 1992. So 2010 is the year where his mom is going to die soon, and the other Yoon Tae Yi is probably in university and or college. 

 

 

[Anita Fabiola]

11 hours ago, kboramint said:

Have you ever watched Avengers End Game? Remember when Nebula killed her past self? I guess it's kind of like that. I guess this has become a another reality. 

My brain thought the exact the same thing. But I'm really confused why peoples of Alice keep messing around and destroying things in 2020 when it is not even their 'reality' that they lived in. This can cause many (messed up) alternate realities that may harmed peoples living in 2020 and (even maybe) Alice themself in 2050.

 

And Do-yeon is really cute. She looked really petite (and that is not a bad thing at all) even next to Kim Hee-sun, but her profile stated she's 165 cm and I'm shook. Maybe her agency measure it while she's in heels.

[celebrianna]

11 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

She got infected from her mom who came from the future, she as the same rash on her neck. It's like she brought some unknown disease from the future and infected her daughter unknowingly

It's more in line with "Rick and Morty" time travel concept, like they were n number of Rick and Morty at n number times, in one episode they replacement themselves with other Rick and Morty when they die in an accident, so that sorts of explains how that mom from the future still exists even when she killed past version of hers

While I watched the plot with the future mother killing her past self, I was more onboard with stopping time travel than ever. All these terrible people get to come back to the past and wreak havoc without suffering real consequences. But then, now she’s also infected her innocent child and in a way it will be objectively befitting that she killed her child far earlier than the child was meant to die. I feel bad for the daughter though because now her mom is dead. 

5 hours ago, larus said:

What a disaster that woman, the future Han Sun-Hee, has made. Not only she killed her past self but she made her daughter sick. She might die earlier, before her time.

But how she exists in the future if she killed herself in the past? I really don`t understand that. Or maybe she is from another universe. I want to read everyone thoughts to understand better

 

This is my question as well. How is she still alive after killing her past self. I read @Sleepy Owl’s explanation about decisions creating an alternate future but it’s still confusing because I’m looking at the past self as the source/foundation. I can understand the past self creating two futures, if alive, but death of the past self, in my opinion, should shut down all futures. For example, the drama Train did a much better job of showing how the same person making different decisions created different futures and individuals. The catalyst for the difference was the same but the protagonist made two different decisions which produced two different versions of himself. With this lady, she basically killed her past self so I don’t understand how this creates a different future for her. It’s like we are dealing with “dimensions” as well because in order for her to exist and still be alive, her past self must have existed right through to this future self’s existence. In other words, how can she be alive if she isn’t continuously living from past to future? 
 

I didn’t watch Avengers Endgame so I don’t know what’s the deal there. I have watched Flash where there was another dimension and I was totally okay with that because it made sense the way they explained it in the show. Flash also went back to the past to try to prevent his mother’s murder but he didn’t save his mother because another version of his future, future self prevented him probably because there would be terrible consequences. 

About Jin Gyeom, why doesn’t he just try to do a DNA test? It’s the easiest way to determine if Tae Yi is his mother. Duh!

[kireeti2]

1 hour ago, Sleepy Owl said:

I hope I cleared your confusion and didn't cause more confusion to you. Park Sun Young and Yoon Tae Yi are same. Although I'll comment in details after I'm done with the episode. 

Oh, now I understand, thanks for explaining in detail

 

1 hour ago, flutterby06 said:

Think about Yoon Soo Omma. She met her other self and that person even killed her! But that doesn't mean she is not the same person. There might be some after effect.

Oh, I totally forgot about the woman from the future, thanks

[Fabbo]

5 hours ago, Sleepy Owl said:

I was actually going to mention about the 2 Tae Yi theory after watching episode 3. But I am not totally convinced by it. I am having my doubts right now, but we'll have to see how things happen. The two scenes which you mentioned, Tae Yi not remembering Jin Gyeom even after seeing him in accident and also the scene where we see cold Tae Yi looking down somewhere (seemingly at Jin Gyeom) with the "Mother" who came for future looking at her. This could actually be a red herring or maybe not. Right now, I really think the writers want to confuse us.

 

Yeah i am pretty sure they are the same person. Even just looking at it thematically.

Tae Yi can't remember him because she hasn't given birth to him yet. And she can't remember the accident because that was her future self during one of her time travels back. At least that's how i understand it at the moment.

 

(Haven't watched ep4 yet)

[Sleepy Owl]

50 minutes ago, celebrianna said:

 

This is my question as well. How is she still alive after killing her past self. I read @Sleepy Owl’s explanation about decisions creating an alternate future but it’s still confusing because I’m looking at the past self as the source/foundation. I can understand the past self creating two futures, if alive, but death of the past self, in my opinion, should shut down all futures. For example, the drama Train did a much better job of showing how the same person making different decisions created different futures and individuals. The catalyst for the difference was the same but the protagonist made two different decisions which produced two different versions of himself. With this lady, she basically killed her past self so I don’t understand how this creates a different future for her. It’s like we are dealing with “dimensions” as well because in order for her to exist and still be alive, her past self must have existed right through to this future self’s existence. In other words, how can she be alive if she isn’t continuously living from past to future? 
 

 

Okay let me try to explain a bit better for you with the same example. 

 

Before me going to example, you need to understand that time has got dimensions. Like I said before too, the linear timeline theory is actions in one of the past/present/future affects the other 2 timelines. 

 

But here, an alternate timeline is getting created. The kid's mom came back and killed her past self, this ends in creation of another alternate timeline. Since a new alternate timeline got created, the kid's mom won't be there in future created as the action of that. But the current "future mom" is from another past dimension and so she exists, so she does not get affected.

 

Now I think we'll get to know more about it in next episode if Jin Gyeom gets to save his mom. If he does that, it'll not affect Jin Gyeom's timeline, instead it'll create a new future timeline. By this I mean, even if he manages to save her, he might not really see her when he comes back in present, or maybe even he sees her, it won't affect how he lived his life. Instead we might get to see other Jin Gyeom if she stays in his timeline, which make things much complicated. So I think whatever he does, even if saves her, she won't be alive in his present timeline, she'll be alive in another present time dimension. 

 

I know it sounds complicating and confusing, but this is what I could understand up until 3rd episode. Of course I'll explain more after watching 4th episode if they do give hints how things happen.  

 

As for the DNA test, he might for it in the coming episodes.

 

@Fabbo, yeah. Even I am yet to watch the latest episode, but even Jin Gyeom is noticing and is able to put come pieces together and come to a conclusion she indeed is his mom. Him seeing her drinking habit, seeing how she could explain him about certain equations when he was in school. 

 

For those who talk about personality difference. Well women usually change a lot after becoming a mom. Above all she was a single-mom. Plus she also came to know about Jin Gyeom's condition. So she had to be extra kind to Jin Gyeom and others so he would understand and learn it from her. 

[celebrianna]

28 minutes ago, Sleepy Owl said:

Okay let me try to explain a bit better for you with the same example. 

 

Before me going to example, you need to understand that time has got dimensions. Like I said before too, the linear timeline theory is actions in one of the past/present/future affects the other 2 timelines. 

 

But here, an alternate timeline is getting created. The kid's mom came back and killed her past self, this ends in creation of another alternate timeline. Since a new alternate timeline got created, the kid's mom won't be there in future created as the action of that. But the current "future mom" is from another past dimension and so she exists, so she does not get affected.

 

Now I think we'll get to know more about it in next episode if Jin Gyeom gets to save his mom. If he does that, it'll not affect Jin Gyeom's timeline, instead it'll create a new future timeline. By this I mean, even if he manages to save her, he might not really see her when he comes back in present, or maybe even he sees her, it won't affect how he lived his life. Instead we might get to see other Jin Gyeom if she stays in his timeline, which make things much complicated. So I think whatever he does, even if saves her, she won't be alive in his present timeline, she'll be alive in another present time dimension. 

 

I know it sounds complicating and confusing, but this is what I could understand up until 3rd episode. Of course I'll explain more after watching 4th episode if they do give hints how things happen.  

@Sleepy Owl, I understand your explanation better. I also think it’s not only time travel but dimensions as well. However, I still have a problem thinking the dimension/timeline was just created by the future woman murdering the past self. I think it makes more sense if the future woman is from a different dimension/timeline all along. Then it would make more sense to me that her existence was not dependent on her past self in this dimension/timeline. However, it’s also clear that the time travel seem to be within the same dimension so I don’t think they are doing a good job of explaining this issue unless they will clarify the contradictions in a future episode. I’m sure the show writers should understand that viewers will question how can the character kill her past self and still be alive. I hope a good explanation is forthcoming. 

[Sleepy Owl]

11 minutes ago, celebrianna said:

@Sleepy Owl, I understand your explanation better. I also think it’s not only time travel but dimensions as well. However, I still have a problem thinking the dimension/timeline was just created by the future woman murdering the past self. I think it makes more sense if the future woman is from a different dimension/timeline all along. Then it would make more sense to me that her existence was not dependent on her past self in this dimension/timeline. However, it’s also clear that the time travel seem to be within the same dimension so I don’t think they are doing a good job of explaining this issue unless they will clarify the contradictions in a future episode. I’m sure the show writers should understand that viewers will question how can the character kill her past self and still be alive. I hope a good explanation is forthcoming. 

I think we'll get more info about as Jin Gyeom will start doing time travels and will investigate about it. So I think we'll have to wait a week or two to fully understand the time traveling and time dimensions. 

[flutterby06]

2 hours ago, celebrianna said:

About Jin Gyeom, why doesn’t he just try to do a DNA test? It’s the easiest way to determine if Tae Yi is his mother. Duh!

 

As far as I know DNA test without consent of the related parties are prohibited/illegal. We know drama usually shows us getting DNA test without parties consent is easy because they have money and power but it is actually illegal by law. And Jin Gyeom is a police officer.. so...

 

1 hour ago, Sleepy Owl said:

Before me going to example, you need to understand that time has got dimensions. Like I said before too, the linear timeline theory is actions in one of the past/present/future affects the other 2 timelines. 

 

But here, an alternate timeline is getting created. The kid's mom came back and killed her past self, this ends in creation of another alternate timeline. Since a new alternate timeline got created, the kid's mom won't be there in future created as the action of that. But the current "future mom" is from another past dimension and so she exists, so she does not get affected.

 

Now I think we'll get to know more about it in next episode if Jin Gyeom gets to save his mom. If he does that, it'll not affect Jin Gyeom's timeline, instead it'll create a new future timeline. By this I mean, even if he manages to save her, he might not really see her when he comes back in present, or maybe even he sees her, it won't affect how he lived his life. Instead we might get to see other Jin Gyeom if she stays in his timeline, which make things much complicated. So I think whatever he does, even if saves her, she won't be alive in his present timeline, she'll be alive in another present time dimension. 

 

Learnt something.. Thanks.

 

The different scenarios of saving Jin Gyeoms Mom seems very much possible and interesting. We'll have to wait for next week's episodes to see how Jin Gyeom handles watching his mother again alive in 2010.

 

Important aspects of episode 4 & teaser:

 

 

Spoiler

 

1. Professor Tae Yi is indeed adopted. We see her visiting her orphanage.

 

2. Min Hyuk not only believes that Tae Yi is leaving happy life with a husband but also that his child born/unborn is dead(who put those ideas into his head i wonder )!

 

3. Dear Tae Yi and Do Yeona, please be understanding that Jin Gyeom would appreciate it very much if you guys don't mess with his feelings for his Mom. 

 

4. Jin Gyeom is going to be interested to know his father. Because only can give him answer about his mom.

 

5. Two very fishy character: Professor Seok O Won and Oh Shi Young from Alice. 

 

6. The accident of Jin Gyeom- who's behind it?

 

[Redpinkboxes]

2 hours ago, bibianni19 said:

Hi everyone

 

For ep 5 preview, i believe Jin Gyeom travelled back to 2010, not 1992. So 2010 is the year where his mom is going to die soon, and the other Yoon Tae Yi is probably in university and or college. 

 

 

 

Damn just finished ep 4. This show just gets better. Also looks like they are going for the alternate timeline and dimensions thing, which could be awesome if they pull it off well, but its a risky genre with a huge risk of many plotholes. 

 

Whatever the case.. In the preview... Jingyeom said "Dad". Anyone else as curious about that as me? I didn't expect him to find out Minhyuk is his dad this early!?

 

Also it's quite very likely he might be able to save his mum, because I do expect Kim hee sun to act more Park Sun Young parts in the show because apparently she would. That would make it so complex with the multiple same person in the same timeline, (including highschool jingyeom).

Also, Seok O Won's character is super dodge, almost feel like he is key to Alice. 

That being said, if there are multiple dimensions, they could be duplicate copies of that book, isn't it? Just that they went to 1992, cause they knew that book was there at that particular time?

[Sleepy Owl]

18 minutes ago, flutterby06 said:

1. Professor Tae Yi is indeed adopted. We see her visiting her orphanage.

 

2. Min Hyuk not only believes that Tae Yi is leaving happy life with a husband but also that his child born/unborn is dead(who put those ideas into his head i wonder )!

 

3. Dear Tae Yi and Do Yeona, please be understanding that Jin Gyeom would appreciate it very much if you guys don't mess with his feelings for his Mom. 

 

4. Jin Gyeom is going to be interested to know his father. Because only can give him answer about his mom.

 

5. Two very fishy character: Professor Seok O Won and Oh Shi Young from Alice. 

 

6. The accident of Jin Gyeom- who's behind it?

I really need to watch the episode. But well as for Tae Yi being adopted, well now it is much more clearer that she could actually be Jang Dong Shik's daughter. I mean I was convinced when someone here had posted about the young girl being indeed cast as Tae Yi. 

 

As for Min Hyuk, I think I have said before that Alice has got a hand in Tae Yi's murder. So they really don't want him to know about it. When the director had told him about Tae yi marrying someone in 2nd episode I guess, I thought even Alice had mistook it, but seconds later mentions his son to him, so yes they are manipulating him because he is an important agent for him. It'll be interesting for him to confronted by Jon Gyeom and knowing about Tae Yi's death either from him or by visiting his home secretly.

 

Won't really comment about Tae Yi and Do Yeon. 

 

Seok O Won has been shady since I saw him in episode 3, as for Oh Shi Young, many had pointed that she is the type of person who'll do anything for Alice, so yes these kind of people are easy to manipulate and dangerous. 

 

Jin Gyeom's accident, will have to watch the episode for it.

 

I really hope that we'll get some useful info when Jin Gyeom will travel in the past. I wonder if he does get to save his mother, will he get to have some info from her or will she really insist to convince him not to get involved. If they do really have a talk, it'll be too early, but we'll really get some interesting information. 

4 minutes ago, Redpinkboxes said:

 

Damn just finished ep 4. This show just gets better. Also looks like they are going for the alternate timeline and dimensions thing, which could be awesome if they pull it off well, but its a risky genre with a huge risk of many plotholes. 

 

Whatever the case.. In the preview... Jingyeom said "Dad". Anyone else as curious about that as me? I didn't expect him to find out Minhyuk is his dad this early!?

 

Also it's quite very likely he might be able to save his mum, because I do expect Kim hee sun to act more Park Sun Young parts in the show because apparently she would. That would make it so complex with the multiple same person in the same timeline, (including highschool jingyeom).

Also, Seok O Won's character is super dodge, almost feel like he is key to Alice. 

That being said, if there are multiple dimensions, they could be duplicate copies of that book, isn't it? Just that they went to 1992, cause they knew that book was there at that particular time?

If they really go for multiple dimensions and Hee Sun acting as both Sun Young and Tae Yi. I really wonder will be seeing Jin Gyeom working with them both and continue his time traveling in order to prevent things in both dimensions. 

 

I mean if he manages to save his mom, he'll know that she is a target of Alice and will really want her to live. So might be seeing him traveling in both time dimensions trying to save both Tae Yis while trying to fight of Alice or whatever others are. 

 

It is risky, but quite interesting for me.

[nrllee]

Yes to the dimensions because Minkowski was mentioned in Prof TY’s lecture.   I am sure others here can explain it better in simpler terms.  And how it relates to time travel and our model here in the Alice drama. 

Wikipedia 

Spoiler

In mathematical physics, Minkowski space (or Minkowski spacetime) is a combination of three-dimensional Euclidean space and time into a four-dimensional manifold where the spacetime interval between any two events is independent of the inertial frame of reference in which they are recorded.

 

[kboramint]

Again, it's seems Chinese restaurants in South Korea only have two dishes. Tae Yi is eating Jjamppong.  LOL. I still wonder if anything terrible is going to happen to her adopted parents and her sister.  

 

 

[celebrianna]

@flutterby06, yes I’m fully aware that taking a DNA test without consent is illegal. But since when was that applicable in drama shows? Too many times common sense and common practice  are thrown out the window in drama shows. I just finished watching episode 4 and I found it extremely annoying when twice Jin Gyeom turned his back on an assailant while the weapon is still in the vicinity of assailant. That happened when he confronted the broker in the hallway and Eun Soo came out of the room and when the ex-convict stabbed his foster father. Another thing is he went into the hotel room and didn’t check the bathroom or any other hidden place to see if any criminal was also in the room. That’s exactly the way the crazy mom stabbed his foster father. It’s like what the heck did they learn in police academy? They have no real sense of danger as cops. 
 

I also have to say that these characters have little caution. Like Jin Gyeom’s mother told him not to approach anybody that looks like her in the future. What does he do? He doesn’t even ponder on it or employ caution and try to observe her at first. Instead he immediately involves himself in Tae Yi’s life without any consideration for his mother’s warning. I know he misses his mother and he gets emotional about Tae Yi, but it still amazes me how absolutely he disregarded her warning. Same with Tae Yi. Jin Gyeom told her not to get further involved with Seok Oh Won. What does she do? She reveals everything about the special card to Seol Oh Wan. No caution whatsoever. Just straight out tell him about the card. I won’t be surprised if Seok Oh Wan setup the truck hit on Jin Gyeom. He probably knew since he has the card, like Tae Yi told him, it would trigger time travel for Jin Gyeom which will begin the start of the fulfillment of the prophecies according to SOW.
 

@Sleepy Owl, Seok Oh Won sort of shed some light on this time travel and dimensions business. He gave an example of his present self going back in the past to tell his old self that he would get into an accident in 2020. He said by his past self avoiding the accident in 2020, it then creates a different universe/dimension. So his 2020 self with the limp would exist in one universe and his 2020 self without the limp will exist in another. My question is, the 2020 self that traveled to the past, what became of him? Is he the one with the limp or the one without the limp or does he cease to exist. He calls this the Butterfly Effect. It seems like digging one’s grave if this stuff isn’t handled right.

 

By the way, it almost seem as though time in Alice is indeed different. The CEO warned the old murdering mom that he can keep her there for 100 years. They also brought up the living 10 years in the past and one year in Alice again.

[nrllee]

@celebrianna I must admit I had to gloss over those obvious mistakes.  The action scenes were also...err...overdone.  JG has a fractured rib from the truck of doom...and he’s walking around like nothing’s happened.  And his palm was slashed during that lift incident with DongSaeng?  Again...no problem.  He has Alexithymia, not Congenital Insensitivity to pain?   In Ep3 he swings from the ceiling of the library holding onto bunting?  There’s no way that would hold a grown man’s weight.
 

The story so far is keeping me interested so I will keep watching regardless.   Probably no time to catch Ep4 till tomorrow.  

[kboramint]

If Jin Gyeom meets Tae Yi in 2010 and if this was a linear timeline then 2020 Tae Yi would suddenly remember meeting him. Kinda like in "The King: The Eternal Monarch" where Jeong Tae-eul remembers meeting Lee Gon in the past. 

 

Will he save his mom? I'm assuming he won't. 

9 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Episode 5 preview

In the preview they sort of showed that Tae-Yi from the university and Park Jin-Gyeom's mom two different persons, like in the preview we can clearly see that Jin-Gyeom went to 1992 and saw Tae-Yi in the university and called her mom from a phone booth, so can we say that Tae-Yi in 2020 is not his mom? I got confused when you guys said that Tae-Yi in 2020 was his mom, like they might share same personality and name, but it's like that she is his mom, since this might be her alternate life, like if she took another path altogether 

 

He went to 2010, and Tae Yi in 2010 was a college student. His mother that went back in time to 1992 is still alive in 2010 (she died that year). Both individuals are the same person. 

[Nymeria289]

We hit double digit today

Alice: Episode 4: 8.7|10.6

Congratulations to the team