[Drama 2018-2019] Children of Nobody/Red Moon, Blue Sun, 붉은달 푸른해

[loveseek630]

1 hour ago, mrsj3n said:

With the torture and eventual truth of the fact that the Ha Na had a sibling who was killed by that richard simmons head dog butcher... it's hard not to associate Dr Yoon, the psychiatrist as one of the members of Red Cry or he is Red Cry. However, he don't look like someone who will gets his hands dirty by "judging" the parents himself. But then. What do I know right?

So many theories and everytime a new episode is aired, it's all thrown out of the window again. 

 

 

I agree with this lol

especially with the part that lots of theories seem to get thrown out the window every new episode hahahaha

 

I love how wicked and clever this show is

[twin-twin]

watching ep 11 feels like watching an uncensored OCN show 

[loveseek630]

10 minutes ago, howling said:

While watching the latest episode I was 85% convinced that RC was LEH, the hands shape and skin tone are pretty similar to actor's, but the last scene looked like it was totally another person, even their movement and body shape etc, which is hella confusing.

But I think it's early to judge actor's skills because he's presenting us right what we should be seeing - nice looking, not suspicious, mysterious children loving guy, if he turns out to be RC and got to show his e-evil side then I might talk about it.

And was it RC who send an invitation to the website? Why did he do that given the fact that WK is actively helping the police, didn't he think they will try to lure him? Or he just didn't know WK's connections to the case? (he probably doesn't)

I think the introduction of the director's father and director's gambling is somehow important to the plot. The way LEH looked uncomfortable lying to director's father also suspicious, was he abused by the director (is his desk memory related to that?) Anyway I think we will find out RC identity in 2-3 episodes and the last ones will focus on how police will try to catch him + backstory maybe

 

It just occurred to me that it could be possible Red Cry was not the one who fetched the envelope. Maybe he had someone do it for him because he knew there were risks involved in showing himself in a public place.

 

But if it was Eunho, I could see why he would choose to beat up Jiheon instead of just leaving when Jiheon already lost him during the chase. Eunho was probably mad for the number of times Jiheon had confronted him rudely and not even being slightly apologetic when he just pulled Eunho roughly while he was sweeping the snow. 

 

I don't think it was Red Cry who sent the invitation. Jiheon mentioned that Min Ha Jung sent the text in advance. Like a scheduled text to be sent after some time. It came from Min Ha Jung's phone and the password was something she knew Wookyung would be able to figure out. Maybe MHJ knew Wookyung was helping the police, and as a final act of repent and good will, set the text to be sent to Wookyung to help their investigation.

[twin-twin]

Eunho's sass level = 10000000000000000000000% 

[howling]

1 hour ago, twin-twin said:

Eunho's sass level = 10000000000000000000000% 

LMAO I was lowkey expecting him to say 'sorry I don't play for that team'

[larus]

10 hours ago, bebebisous33 said:

That's why I am thinking that Red Cry could be a psychologist/psychiatrist, since such a person needs to be a mind reader.

 

He is my number one suspect at the moment. I agree with your analysis.

 

He has so much opportunities to know details about the cases, he knows how the perpetrators think, he knows the victims, he is smart, shrewd, manipulative. Everything screams "The mastermind" about him. It is my guts.  Motive, means and opportunity are there enough to focus on him but we still need evidence and more prove to know for sure. 

Another thing....Red Cry could easily have a disciple, a former patient (who was abused) who could be the right hand to do the dirty jobs or he is alone in this.

So far, the punishment for Red Cry`s targets were elaborated, with sublte manipulation, took time to catch them in his spider web, but this time was brutal. Maybe it was because of what Red Cry found out from Hana?

 

For me,  Lee Eun-Ho was never a serious suspect for the mastermind role. Sure, he is suspicious, but I don`t feel what he fits the profile so far. I could see him capable to kill Hana`s father, to be the disciple but not the mastermind. I need more information and facts to accept him as Red Cry. Even the director of the center is a better candidate for Red Cry. Lee Eun Ho knows more than he says about what is happening at the center. I always have that feeling that he suspects who is Red Cry.

 

Now I have to see 21-22 episodes. Maybe I will change my mind.

[bebebisous33]

9 hours ago, foreverempress said:

 

I am speaking from a clinical-research based experience in addition to being a mother:

 

As a well researched Marriage and Family therapist that studies attachment theories of John Bowlby and Mary Ainsworth and teaches college Lifespan Psychology, Counseling Theories, and Research & Statistics part-time, I will have to disagree with being a loving and caring mother is not natural; it is natural and research has supported that and replicated it. Depending on the species, even if an animal rejects her newborn, that is usually the exception and not the rule. Behavioral modeling/social environment plays a role, but it is not THE role.  Biological processes, genetics, the frontal lobe/prefrontal cortex. It is nature and nurture combined. That is why people can experience the same trauma while one is resilient and the other is traumatized. Research has shown time and time again, overall, when it comes to survival, a mother is likely to die for her child to survive opposed to allow their child to die with the exceptions being children that are aborted during pregnancy.

 

We have to be mindful of using the rare cases and applying them to the general population. 

But what you wrote confirms what I said in my opinion. We should never assume that every mother will be a loving and caring mother. There are exceptions and we don't know who the exceptions are and that's the problem. Those expectations can sometimes ruin children's life.

 

@joccu @liddi @selenette @ktcjdrama @gaby81 We know for sure that Red Cry is not alone. We have at least 3 persons (H, H1, H5). H3 was CWK in the black chat. LEH belongs definitely to that black chat... I have been wondering if someone from the police would work for him too. This would explain why Red Cry feel legitimate with his actions. With evidence in his hands and psychological reports, he feels entitled to intervene as he knows that police's hands are sometimes tied. 

First, Red Cry knew about the monitoring watch therefore he used it. It was not on Ha Na's wrist, since the father had taken it away. But I assume that he could have hidden it so that Ha Na wouldn't be able to find it. Then we have this scene where JH has an outburst and yells asking where Red Cry is... JH expresses the wish that the father should die. I have the impression that Red Cry could have known about that wish. Therefore it came to my mind... what if Red Cry uses the wishes of people who have been abused in the past? He knows that CWK has been abused in the past hence he made her wish come true. Then JH revealed his past too. As conclusion, I think that there is someone working for Red Cry at the police station. In this vigilante group, we have LEH, the psychiatrist and someone from the police. Red Cry could have known that it was a set-up but someone from his network had to appear because if not, they would have known that there was a traitor among them.

 

[loveseek630]

21 minutes ago, bebebisous33 said:

But what you wrote confirms what I said in my opinion. We should never assume that every mother will be a loving and caring mother. There are exceptions and we don't know who the exceptions are and that's the problem. Those expectations can sometimes ruin children's life.

 

@joccu @liddi @selenette @ktcjdrama @gaby81 We know for sure that Red Cry is not alone. We have at least 3 persons (H, H1, H5). H3 was CWK in the black chat. LEH belongs definitely to that black chat... I have been wondering if someone from the police would work for him too. This would explain why Red Cry feel legitimate with his actions. With evidence in his hands and psychological reports, he feels entitled to intervene as he knows that police's hands are sometimes tied. 

First, Red Cry knew about the monitoring watch therefore he used it. It was not on Ha Na's wrist, since the father had taken it away. But I assume that he could have hidden it so that Ha Na wouldn't be able to find it. Then we have this scene where JH has an outburst and yells asking where Red Cry is... JH expresses the wish that the father should die. I have the impression that Red Cry could have known about that wish. Therefore it came to my mind... what if Red Cry uses the wishes of people who have been abused in the past? He knows that CWK has been abused in the past hence he made her wish come true. Then JH revealed his past too. As conclusion, I think that there is someone working for Red Cry at the police station. In this vigilante group, we have LEH, the psychiatrist and someone from the police. Red Cry could have known that it was a set-up but someone from his network had to appear because if not, they would have known that there was a traitor among them.

 

 

I have actually been thinking about the IT guy. Jiheon had been rather harsh and bossy towards him. I think he's legitimately a good guy but he could have been playing along with the investigation and grab at some chances to at least get Jiheon a little beat up.

It's not something I would lean towards, because he's been working really hard for the team, but if it ever turns out that he's associated with Red Cry, I wouldn't be surprised.

[bebebisous33]

13 minutes ago, loveseek630 said:

 

I have actually been thinking about the IT guy. Jiheon had been rather harsh and bossy towards him. I think he's legitimately a good guy but he could have been playing along with the investigation and grab at some chances to at least get Jiheon a little beat up.

It's not something I would lean towards, because he's been working really hard for the team, but if it ever turns out that he's associated with Red Cry, I wouldn't be surprised.

Honestly, I was thinking about him. He is close to JH hence he must know his past. Secondly, he kept asking JH to work with him... so maybe he wanted to know the progress of the investigation. By being present during the exchange between Red Cry and CWK, he is not a suspect but there is a group. Nonetheless, he was there, when JH asked Red Cry to kill that guy. However, he wasn't sure there for the trap. My other suspect is the captain.

[mushforbrains]

Either way....the associate that dealt with ha na's dad was particularly vicious... so that will start to alienate him within the group. 

The rest of the murders.... the victims were sedated so they didn't suffer too much per se.... but the one that dealt with hanas parents were particularly vicious...depriving inhaler meds n now torture...

This may potentially fracture the group n lead to internal dissent and dissolution of the group. 

RC may be going mad with power 

[mrsj3n]

2 hours ago, mushforbrains said:

 

RC may be going mad with power 

Yes.

It's definitely not about money.

 

I think all the murders seems to have escalated and RC seems to have evolved and like the "power" he posses to develop this thinking that he is the supreme judge / executioner or "god like" to punish the errands parents.

 

One has to wonder, are all the members in the Black chat accomplice now?

I mean, they all judged the deceased and ultimately led to their demise.

That will be something I want to see.

[larus]

17 hours ago, disembody said:

I have no idea what happened or how LEH knows the director and his father. his father treats him poorly. there was also that bit about the director not knowing how the internet works which could be a misdirection. clearly he's selfish so who knows what goes on. and why leh was hesitant to lie to him? honestly i have no idea what the hell leh gains by doing any of this lol so...more answers

 

I think Lee Eun-Ho was a child who needed terapy at the center in the past. He grew up and now he works there. He knew  Song Ho-Min`s father and he even said that they feel like his family. One time I suspected the director. I thought that he is faking his atitude, being clumsy, greedy and all but now I have a better candidate. But I watched carefully the scenes with this father to see how the other people are reacting towards him. I know that he is seems like a good guy but we never know what a smile could hide. Now I am waiting to see how Yoon Tae-Joo is conected with that old man.

 

About episodes 21-22.t was an adrenaline pumping watch.

I like the way Woo Kyung and Ji-Hun drew Red Cry into a trap. They discovered his modus operandi.

OMG, Woo Kyung`s sister, Se-Kyung was consious. She moved her head away to avoid Heo Jin-Ok`s touch. Her step- mother said to Woo Kyung that Se Kyung did not like her and I wonder why. Now, this situation fits with the family pictures where Se Kyung`s body language spoke the same. Se Kyung knows more information than Woo kyung who doesn`t have clear memories about her past. I can`t wait for Se Kyung to be OK. But I wonder if that will be possible. I have a feeling that Woo Kyung will remember on her own some past memories.

[mushforbrains]

Just watched ep 22... yes the walk does not seem like eunho...

frame wise either his police hoobae or cwk  psychiatrist...if we are to draw from existing pool of suspects...

agree that it seems as if they are starting to introduce the psychiatrist a bit more and he had contact with Hana...

the gdg is getting to be more of a supernatural phenomenon since she predated hana’s call...

 

Hmmmm...still don’t know what’s going on 

[bella1025]

how about the brother from abroad someone mentioned a few pages ago? or the grown up minor arsonist perhaps? 

 

the suspect's frame is definitely stockier than eun ho's but there's a good chance that it could also just be the layers of clothes he's wearing. 

[mushforbrains]

Hmmmm.....the minor arsonist is plausible too....they could be one n the same...adopted and off to another country to live a new life until.....he decides he has a Mission.....

[qynn]

2 hours ago, larus said:

 

I think Lee Eun-Ho was a child who needed terapy at the center in the past. He grew up and now he works there. He knew  Song Ho-Min`s father and he even said that they feel like his family. One time I suspected the director. I thought that he is faking his atitude, being clumsy, greedy and all but now I have a better candidate. But I watched carefully the scenes with this father to see how the other people are reacting towards him. I know that he is seems like a good guy but we never know what a smile could hide. Now I am waiting to see how Yoon Tae-Joo is conected with that old man.

I believe it was said in an episode that the director's father used to own the orphanage Hana was taken to by Red Cry and that Eun Ho grew up in that orphanage.  I guess that's why he said they feel like his family. The old man seemed nice but something about him gave me the creeps. 

[larus]

1 hour ago, qynn said:

The old man seemed nice but something about him gave me the creeps. 

I am sure we`ll see him again and it is possible that we`ll be surprised what we`ll find out.

 

If Lee Eun Ho grew up in the orphanage it is possible that he was abused there as well. Or he was abused by the parents.  It seams that he has deep emotional scars.

[partyon]

I am still recovering after watching this week's episodes. I was biting my nails. Too much adrenaline for one evening! This drama is seriously so suspenseful, and yet so good.

So now on to some comments about this week's episodes  

 

@bebebisous33 Thanks once again for all your wonderful theories! Your imagination is so rich, I think you could make an awesome writer of a tv-show.   Also, I appreciated your comments about how it cannot be assumed automatically that every mother is a good mother - it brought back memories of our interesting discussions in the "Your Honor" thread.  

 

On 12/27/2018 at 11:41 AM, loveseek630 said:

Now that I backread, I saw someone point out that Eunho witnessed Hana burying the bird. That must have been how he found out the father buried someone else. He probably looked around the area before proceeding to kill the dad. NGL the way hana kept jumping on top of the buried bird crept me out. She probably also saw her father do it like a maniac.

 

Many speculate that CWK's psychologist was able to get that information from Ha Na. Interesting thought, and I will not deny that the psychologist seems quite suspicious. (He is definitely on my suspect list - especially after he said so matter of factly that Bit Na will get over her traumas after getting some treatment). Also, it could be that Eun Ho was able to deduct the fact from how Ha Na buried the sparrow. (The thought crossed my mind too when I saw the scene - how come this child is so familiar with death...?).

BUT isn't it possible that Red Cry might have heard about the death of the baby from Ha Na's mother? Red Cry then killed her - he might have killed her not just because he felt that she was neglecting Ha Na, but also because he thought she had killed her baby?

Let's be honest here - did anyone actually SEE Ha Na's dad abuse Ha Na? Yes, sure, he was creepy and he threatened to kill his daughter if she talked, but we never actually saw him harm her physically. We don't actually know if it was Ha Na's dad or mom who killed the baby... Red Cry might have gone after Ha Na's dad to protect Ha Na just in case the dad killed the baby. The dad might have confessed to killing the baby when Red Cry was pulling out all of his teeth. That's why Red Cry became so violent and carved the poem on the dad's back.

 

On 12/27/2018 at 1:02 PM, cyan5tarlight said:

That hug she gave Jiheon was the cutest thing, too, you could see him visibly melt.

I agree! Ha Na really likes JH and I hope he adopts her by the end of the drama. I think she feels like he protects her. Also, such a strong scene by our female detective who showed her inner abused child when she urged Ha Na to cry her heart out.... 

 

 

21 hours ago, ktcjdrama said:

- Centre Director is only focused on financial gains since we found out he used to gamble so probably incurred a lot of debt. However, he could be selling the information on the cases though, whatever it is as long as there is monetary gain.

- I am actually worried about the "fake" case of Siwan that CWK shared. I worry that the father will be killed because of the made up story.

I so agree! The center director doesn't really care about the kids - he is in debt and is mostly interested in saving his own behind.

 

I also think that it was an incredibly stupid move to pick a real case like Si Wan's case to introduce to a vigilante community! We have to remember that this is a crowd that has decided to take law into their own hands and act on it in a most heinous way. I am worried that they will pass judgment more often with very little real evidence... I hope Si Wan's family isn't going to be attacked next.  

 

 

 

[partyon]

A few more thoughts:

• Did anyone else hear the heartbeats in the scene where Ha Na hugs JH? It was so heartwarming! She is healing him too.  
• Ha Na said that it was the same nice looking man that came after her dad. But did you notice that she was VERY frightened of him this time? The first time when he killed her mom she was calm, but this time she was very scared of him.... Why? Was he more threatening this time? Was it a different guy?
• The girl in the green dress theory #1  I still think that the girl appears as a premonition of an abused child in need of protection. When she appeared in the latest episodes, Ha Na was scared to death. Yes, maybe we could argue that Red Cry was there to free her from her father, but Ha Na was scared, also of Red Cry. Just look at her little face.   The girl in the green dress came to ask CWK to help Ha Na asap.
• The girl in the green dress theory #2. I am more and more starting to feel that she could be CSK. The girl wants CWK to protect someone when she appears. Maybe CWK couldn't protect CSK from abuse and CWK feels guilty about it? Every time the girl appears, her sister would be the a huge trigger for her guilty conscience about failing to protect an abused child.
• I am prone to believe that Eun Ho is a part of the vigilante team in one way or the other. He might not be Red Cry (I don't know), but he is connected somehow. The pictures of the kids he had drawn in last week's episodes could very well be kids who are waiting for judgement to be passed on their cases by the vigilante community.
• Poor Se Kyung - what did she experience as a child....? And why is she so scared of the stepmom....? I still think the step mom is no saint. What secrets is she harboring?

We are entering the last part of the drama, and I am sure that we will get some shocking revelations starting from next week already!

[cyan5tarlight]

Whew, okay, finally able to post this, I've been working on it off and on for hours. >.<

 

 

OK, so who else had to put their phone down and not watch when Dog Farmer Dad's teeth were being yanked out? Just me? Seriously, I did not expect such a visceral scene to be in a drama, even a crime/thriller drama like this one. 0.0

 

 

6 hours ago, ktcjdrama said:

I am actually worried about the "fake" case of Siwan that CWK shared. I worry that the father will be killed because of the made up story. 

OMG, same!! That was the first thought that occurred to me, too. That, or because the police knew exactly where to look for Red Cry at the department store Christmas tree, Wookyung might be the next target instead, if someone puts two and two together.

 

 

7 hours ago, loveseek630 said:

This might be me being biased of Hakyeon, but I think he's been doing a pretty good job playing Eunho, no matter how people say he lacks experience to the the culprit. Experience-wise, yes, he hasn't had a lot of big drama roles in the past, but he has been stably growing as an actor and did a fantastic job with his Interview musical where he played both a child and a murderer's personality - something which reflects in Eunho's role.

 

Eunho acts and speaks more like a child. His character is supposed to seem flat, social abilities stunted which is why he can relate more to children than with adults. Despite minimal screen time, he also made huge impacts on scenes where he actually spoke. His nonchalant line delivery is part of Eunho's character being disconnected, and yet he drives his point when Jiheon confronted him the past two episodes. Also, Hakyeon has said a few times that the moment he read the script, he wanted to take Eunho's role. There must be something in there. 

THANK YOU. I feel exactly the same way. He's been doing an excellent job with this role, and I really look forward to seeing what the last 5 hours of the drama are going to do with this character.

 

 

I'm not too sure about Red Cry's physique ruling out Eunho. Like it's been pointed out, they could have used a stunt double. Plus, N may be tall and on the slighter side, but I could see him able to go toe to toe with Jiheon/Dog Farmer Dad if he were so inclined, as the man is still pretty dang strong. (For reference, both dudes he's swinging around like sacks of flour in these pics are roughly 6 foot+) Now, that doesn't necessarily mean that Eunho is as equally strong as his actor, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if he was.

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

 

All these theories about Sunbae Doctor being Red Cry have me very much intrigued, however. Wookyung tells him a lot of information that she doesn't really share with anyone else, and if, as some people suspect, hypnosis is involved somehow, then she might have told him even more than she realizes. I mean, if he IS some well-known actor, they likely wouldn't have brought him in for a 10 minute cameo and then dropped him like a hot potato, especially this late in the game.

 

 

Eunho's relationship with the Director and his father has me immensely intrigued as well. He clearly likes Wheelchair Grandpa, but I'm not quite sure if the feeling is reciprocated. I... kind of got a little bit of a vibe of the relationship Wookyung has with Stepmom, if I'm honest. Maybe not QUITE to that extent, since Wheelchair Grandpa generally seems like a warmer person, but I still got a little of that impression. Could be just me. All the people speculating that the Director is using or abusing Eunho has me really concerned, though. He does seem old enough to be Eunho's father, and probably was already an adult when Eunho was growing up in his father's orphanage. He also lives in their center, is employed by them... I mean, they kind of have the ultimate leverage over him, when you think about it, since he'd be both jobless and homeless if they decided to kick him out, not to mention the damage done to his reputation if they decided to spread malicious rumors about him (children's center and all). It would be interesting indeed if one of the main characters - whom we all have suspected for awhile now were all abused as children - was still being abused even as an adult, and what that might mean for the narrative. Like, perhaps Eunho puts up with everything management decides to do to him so that the Center can remain open (since Mr. Director seems to have a bad gambling problem, and the center might have already gone under if not for Eunho's help), and the children can still have a safe refuge to play and learn and get counseling. After all, the tagline on his personal poster for the drama is "I will defend/protect you," the same as Sooyoung's, while Jiheon and Wookyung have "I will save you" written on theirs. What if that is the way he's protecting them instead of going all Mr. Vigilante Serial Killer the way everyone's been assuming? Food for thought.

 

 

Also, something occurred to me once someone suggested that Red Cry might be wearing a mask. What if Hana saying the person who killed her mother "had a nice/good face" meant they were wearing a smiley face mask? To a child, a smiley face might mean "nice" while a frowny face might mean "mean," and if that is the case, than it explains perfectly why she was unable to pick out a culprit from the lineup at the police station. None of the men were wearing masks, so she couldn't point out the one she saw. As it stands, the only real reasons why I'm not throwing my hat completely in the "Eunho is Red Cry" ring at this point is 1) it still, even after all this time, seems like too obvious a conclusion to come to, and 2) Hana didn't identify him in the police station when she had every reason to do so and no reason to lie. Cuz did anyone else notice how, when Red Cry stop typing when he was chatting with Wookyung on Razorhead, he started rubbing his thumbs and forefingers together? Who else is the only person we've seen to regularly have a nervous tic where they play with their fingers? That's right, none other than Mr. Lee Eunho.

 

 

As one last note, really hope Sekyung will be alright. Something tells me she's going to be crucial to unraveling the mystery of the Girl in the Green Dress and Wooyung's past. I can see the next episodes going one of two ways with her: either she really is recovering, and she'll be able to answer all of Wookyung's questions once she comes out of her vegetative state, or she dies, and her death ends up being the thing to trigger Wookyung's latent childhood memories. I wonder which it will be.