[Drama 2018-2019] Children of Nobody/Red Moon, Blue Sun, 붉은달 푸른해

[bebebisous33]

I watched the first episode again and this caught my attention: Kwon Chan Wook was the one who gave the important info to KJH so that he could find CWK which led them to the suspect PYT, the doctor who stole that drug. From this moment, KJH was connected to CWK and the center. Notice that JH arrived too late because the doctor had committed suicide. There is no better way to cover up the real mastermind that to give them a scapegoat. Then the case is considered close which really happened.

KCW could be definitely involved in that organization, especially if you look at his body. The height and the body shape looks a lot like the one who hit JH's head.

[larus]

The Female High Excellence Award for Wednesday-Thursday Drama goes to Kim Sun Ah of "Children of Nobody".

 

Kim Sun Ah notes that there are five episodes left for "Children of Nobody." Expresses thanks for the award and thanks staff members, directors, fellow actors, writer, etc. Says that the drama is a thriller, but there's an important message and recommends viewers to check it out. Happy New Year!

 

 

Congratulations!

source

[mrsj3n]

29 minutes ago, bebebisous33 said:

 

KCW could be definitely involved in that organization, especially if you look at his body. The height and the body shape looks a lot like the one who hit JH's head.

 

It can't be.

If he's inside the organisation, he would have known it is a trap and will not risk taking the materials from the square.

 

I've rewatched episode 1, no doubt he gave the information of CWK to JH, but I believe it is because CWK has a record in the system due to the car accident at the highway hence that is why he can obtain the info of hers.

 

Even if.. let's say if  he is part of it. Why CWK?

Why her?

 

@larus yaay! That's great news for our Sun-ah!

Hope she will has many many more dramas soon for us viewers. 

I love her so much!!

I want to see her in a happily ever after drama again!

[liddi]

Congratulations Kim Sun Ah! Truly well-deserved, and so so glad to see Children of Nobody being honoured at the awards through her performance.

Was the drama nominated in any other categories? 

[bebebisous33]

15 minutes ago, mrsj3n said:

 

It can't be.

If he's inside the organisation, he would have known it is a trap and will not risk taking the materials from the square.

 

I've rewatched episode 1, no doubt he gave the information of CWK to JH, but I believe it is because CWK has a record in the system due to the car accident at the highway hence that is why he can obtain the info of hers.

 

Even if.. let's say if  he is part of it. Why CWK?

Why her?

 

@larus yaay! That's great news for our Sun-ah!

Hope she will has many many more dramas soon for us viewers. 

I love her so much!!

I want to see her in a happily ever after drama again!

No, he mentioned to JH that he discovered protesters under the name of Children of nobody. They protested two years ago just after PJH's verdict as they wanted for her the death sentence. He said that they protested two years ago and he pointed out CWK directly. This had nothing to do with the accident.

 

But like I said, if no one had appeared, then this would have meant that someone had leaked the information. They would have started suspecting that someone in the police is involved. Besides, I doubt that KCW is the mastermind. Red Cry needs to know how far they have gone with the investigation. Notice that there is a certain pattern: Red Cry ensures that the cases are considered as solved: first case murder, the identity of the murderer was found. Second case, suicide and it was considered as closed, until the wife changed her statement. However it took a certain time until they could prove , it was murder. For HMJ, it looks like suicide. Only Ha Na's case is different. Yet he thought that since the child was neglected and abandoned, no one would ever find the girl and even try to discover the identity of the culprit. The victim was not important or famous. So far, LEH was not recognized by Ha Na, hence he is off the hook. Red Cry believed that this would end there, until the father asked for the custody.  

[larus]

50 minutes ago, bebebisous33 said:

KCW could be definitely involved in that organization, especially if you look at his body. The height and the body shape looks a lot like the one who hit JH's head.

 

I also don`t believe that he is inside the organization but .... someone from the police involved is posible. He infiltrated the police now and has inside information. Interesting theory.

 

12 minutes ago, liddi said:

Was the drama nominated in any other categories? 

Kim Yeo Jin was nominated for Best Supporting Actor & Actress,   Nam Gyu Ri and Lee Yi Kyung for Excellent Actress/ Actor.

 

[liddi]

@larus Thank you! It's great to know that the rest of the cast were also nominated in various categories. 

Was it nominated for Best Scriptwriter or Best Drama award at all? 

[mrsj3n]

2 minutes ago, bebebisous33 said:

No, he mentioned to JH that he discovered protesters under the name of Children of nobody. They protested two years ago just after PJH's verdict as they wanted for her the death sentence. He said that they protested two years ago and he pointed out CWK directly. This had nothing to do with the accident.

 

 

Yes. But before anyone can be singled out by the police, it means they must have a "record" in their data.

 

He was able to point out CWK directly is because she would have her picture taken by the police and hence the system was able to do a photo recognition. (watched too much CSI... )

 

If you refer back, JH wasn't able to identify all the protesters when PJH was released.

 

So for KCW to check on the protest 2 years ago is not fishy at all.

And for him to hit JH like there's so much pent up hatred????

It's impossible! 

 

But then. I may be wrong too as I'm in denial that KCW is part of Red Cry.

It's like an ultimate betrayal for JH as he trusted him. (Like I do) 

[partyon]

OMG, so many theories on this thread about who is the culprit! I am getting dizzy. Can someone make a summary of who has been suspected so far? I can recall at least the following:

• CWK
• CWK's stepmom
• LEH
• The director of Hanul Children's center
• CSK (the sister)
• The father of the director of Hanul Children's center
• Kwon Chan Wook (police officer)
• Police Chief Hong Gi Tae
• Psychologist Yoon Tae Joon

 

I think some people also suspected the female detective, CWK's ex-husband, JH's ex girlfriend and Ji Hyun at some point!?!

Oh wait, has anyone suspected the autopsy doctor yet? Doesn't he seem a bit suspicious too honestly? 

 

When I think about it, is there anyone apart from the kids that we haven't put on the suspect list?

 

EDIT:

Is the general consensus on this thread at the moment that the psychologist, the grandpa and LEH are the most likely suspects? Or am I missing someone?

[bebebisous33]

@partyon Some had speculated that SK could be Red Cry. But so far, you are right with your list (and especially the ones in yellow). No, JH was never a suspect for me because he was the one who never believed that the case of PJH was closed. I doubt, CWK's stepmother is a part of it. I even suspect that she might become the ultimate target! Especially if CWK discovers the truth and starts resenting her stepmother. In the first episode, CWK described PJH as the devil and in that moment, SK opened her eyes... shortly after, the woman was killed.

[liddi]

For those who are interested, at last, I found a selection of BTSes in this collection of Children of Nobody videos on Naver here. The latest is the heart-warming hug that Ha Na gave KJH  

[partyon]

40 minutes ago, bebebisous33 said:

Some had speculated that SK could be Red Cry. But so far, you are right with your list (and especially the one in yellow). No, JH was never a suspect for me because he was the one who never believed that the case of PJH was closed. I doubt, CWK's stepmother is a part of it. I even suspect that she might become the ultimate target! Especially if CWK discovers the truth and starts resenting her stepmother. In the first episode, CWK described PJH as the devil and in that moment, SK opened her eyes... shortly after, the woman was killed.

@bebebisous33 By SK do you mean CSK, the sister of CWK? She is on my original list.

I also agree that CWK's stepmom could become Red Cry's target.

 

The more I think about it the more I am convinced that the grandpa is involved in Red Cry's organization. He could even be Red Cry masterminding everything from his wheelchair. Or then the other possibility is that he is Red Cry's abuser who is going to be killed sooner or later. I rewatched the preview for the latest episodes, and he is prominently featured in the preview. I mean why introduce a character this late in the game and even promote him that much if he isn't going to be a central figure in the plot line?

[larus]

2 hours ago, liddi said:

@larus Thank you! It's great to know that the rest of the cast were also nominated in various categories. 

Was it nominated for Best Scriptwriter or Best Drama award at all? 

 

The best drama was selected by viewers and I think the best scriptwriter as well or maybe it was decided by the tv network (I did not see the nominations).

 

1 hour ago, partyon said:

Can someone make a summary of who has been suspected so far?

 

So many on the list. I don`t have many and never had. 

 

Lee Eun-Ho was a good suspect but never believed that he is the mastermind but maybe he is the right-hand man?

I wondered (for a moment) about the director of Hanul Children's center, Song Ho-Min, if he could be someone like Clark Kent type in disguised. But no, no really a suspect.

Now, the only one who I have a strong and serious suspisious is Yoon Tae-Joo.  Let see how it will be in the next episodes. I am intrigued by this new character, the old man in wheelchair.

 

[bebebisous33]

@larus If it is the psychiatrist YTJ, then we can compare him to Jekyll and Hyde.

 

@partyon About the suspect list: I was wondering if MS, CWK's ex-husband, could be part of it because his company could be related to Internet/computer. The company name was e-something. We need someone with skills for that. But I must confess, he is not really my main suspect.

[cyan5tarlight]

4 hours ago, thistle said:

While I applaud the hope that redemption is possible for everyone, the reality is that change requires an effort of will that many are unable or unwilling to make.  Abuse is essentially an emotional addiction, and it is a notoriously difficult one to kick.  It alters the life of both the perpetrator and the victim.  It even causes physical changes in the brain.  We cannot say too simply that anyone can turn things around. 

 

Red Cry was abusing people emotionally by coercing them to commit suicide.  Now Red Cry is also a murderer.  That is something impossible to come back from, no matter how much is forgiven or how much one wishes to change.  It is an act that can't be "taken back" or excused, especially since the murder of the Dog Butcher was particularly heinous and torturous. 

True, just because it's possible to change, doesn't mean someone actually will. That's why many alcoholics and drug addicts stay addicts, because it's so difficult to break that habit. However, just because it's hard doesn't mean it's impossible, either. I wouldn't ever say that just because someone's a crack addict, they're doomed to be a crack addict forever, just on principle. They can always turn their life around any time they want to. Will they? Well, that's up to them, but the point is, it's possible. For anyone. It's the same with any person who perpetuates abuse. Even if they're not strong enough to change their ways or break their bad habits by themselves, there are still ways for them to get the help they need.

 

Certainly, no one is saying Red Cry should be excused for the things they've done, just like Hajung shouldn't have been excused for the things she'd done to her daughter. They deserve to reap the full consequences of their actions. But, just because they're being duly punished for the things they've done, doesn't mean also that they can't necessarily find some measure of healing or redemption as well, just like it was possible for Hajung to be a better person and eventually reconcile with Bitna, even if Bitna was taken away from her or she went to jail. That was the only point I was trying to make.

[mushforbrains]

Currently the most plausible would be the psychiatrist  with Lee eunho as his aide...

Most who were "punished" seemed to have some contact with Lee eunho...

Wouldn't be surprised if cwk thought of it n hence sat down next to Lee eun ho at the playground and told him hana's dad was taking her...then they both witnessed the dead bird incident...

It obviously upset lee eun ho to think that hana's dad might take her ..

This is what makes a good whodunit....keeping us guessing....

[bedifferent]

On 12/29/2018 at 11:59 AM, partyon said:

 

I have been thinking about the stepmom being CWK's biological mom theory, and I am not sure that I fully am buying it yet.

...
I still don't know why the father was trying to erase CWK's memories or why CSK was sent to live with her grandmother. It feels though like CWK's biological family was being wiped out from her existence. Was the stepmom maybe jealous?

 

 

Yes.  CWK stepmom behaves very differently from CWK that one cannot believe they could be mother and daughter.  CWK has signs of an abused victim, thus the subconscious reason why she reads to her dtr the book about Tiger Mom.  But we can't rule out the possibility that CWK's personality could come from her dad.  In any case, I'm willing to let the drama tells me while entertaining all options.   One thing that still bug me is CWK's hidden anger that she has been suppressing, that which can surface when is triggered (her husband's infidelity and Seok Woo's mom).  In both cases, the girl in the green dress showed up to appease her.  If the girl in the green dress is CSK, it may explain why the girl appeared each time to hold back CWK from causing physical harm to another person or to signal that another child is in danger (like she herself was).  Part of me think as a child, CWK could have snapped from the dress incident causing CSK to be sent away for protection. Her dad then tried to make her childhood memories a pleasant one by having her take CSK's place in pictures while her sister was away.  That may explain why CWK is close to her stepmom in pictures ( she lives with her) and CSK is distant.  Stepmom could be the one who suggested to have CSK sent away (briefly) and resent CWK for that decision.

 

I know we have gone in circle about the same thing, my mind is getting less and less creative hahaha

 

On 12/29/2018 at 3:49 PM, thistle said:

 

I question Bit Na's relationship with CWK.  Bit Na has learned to be manipulative because she had no other choice, and I don't believe that she truly trusts CWK.  I think she is more inclined to use her, and I suspect that she may have done so before and during her mother's suicide.  Bit Na was only a "useful object" (in the sense that she achieved being a top student as she was told to do) to her mother, so Bit Na's relationship to others (especially to an adult female) will also tend to be either as a user or as someone who is used.

 

@partyon @cyan5tarlight @thistle I really like your discussion about redemption about Red Cry.  I think redemption has to be earned.  Repent, self reflection, humility... all which requires the person to admit fault.  We all guess Red Cry is an organization of many so at the end, some can be saved while others are too extreme in their beliefs that they won't be.  There's a sense of self righteousness from Dr. Yoon (when he talks to CWK) or Red Cry's mocking sentiments toward its victims that made them more sadistic than pitiful.  Not every member is the same so not all should receive the same punishments by law.  It is ironic and sad that the members themselves are being manipulated and abused for their seemingly noble intentions.

 

Thoughts:

• Could stepmom be CWK's aunt?
• Eun Ho is a talented artist.  Wouldn't it be out of character (or an insult) to childishly draw crayon marks on the victim or at the crime scenes?  The culprit seems very crude in his actions.  I don't think the violent person is Eun Ho.
• CWK stumbled on the crime scene as it happened, why did the hooded person chose not to harm her while he beat the hell out of Ji Hoon?  The respect toward her means he knows her work or her as a person. Why wait till now to recruit her?  
• Now that Red Cry knows police is onto them, will it disband the organization?
• What happened to Seok Woo's mom?  If she managed to turn her life around, what does it mean to Red Cry's theory of these lepers and its mission?  Will she come back to the story?

[ktcjdrama]

35 minutes ago, bedifferent said:

Now that Red Cry knows police is onto them, will it disband the organization?

Since we all agree he has a god-complex, I don't think so. Esp.with the loud message he's sending via the death of Hana's father, and his attack on JH. Maybe RC will even become more upfront in challenging the police, like - hey I can do a better job in serving justice than you guys... 

 

38 minutes ago, bedifferent said:

Eun Ho is a talented artist.  Wouldn't it be out of character (or an insult) to childishly draw crayon marks on the victim or at the crime scenes?  The culprit seems very crude in his actions.  I don't think the violent person is Eun Ho.

I have the same thought too... or maybe I am just biased. I don't wish for EH to be the bad guys, although he is highly suspicious.

[detective3d]

3 hours ago, bedifferent said:

 

• What happened to Seok Woo's mom?  If she managed to turn her life around, what does it mean to Red Cry's theory of these lepers and its mission?  Will she come back to the story?

I am wondering the same too! She was allowed to live which doesn't tally with what Red Cry has been doing.

 

Was it really an accident and a red herring?

 

From all the views in this forum, seems like we have a good theory going on. But it is these kind of minor details that throw the theories off!

[selenette]

I know everyone's tired of theorizing at this point, probably, and I had posted two theories before (which probably don't make sense), but I still want to try my luck. I have a background in sociology of the family (and took a basic course of criminology), and I know it's only 1/3 of criminal profiling, so as usual please take this with a grain of salt. 

 

So. I originally posted this on Twitter, but I want to elaborate more (please bear with me). I won't point out at any certain suspects, but instead map their possible general profile.

 

Criminal Profiling of Red Cry Based on The M.O, The Victims, The Location, The Timing of The Crimes

 

A. Age, Gender, Education Level Profiling

 

• Poetry is important in Korea, both aesthetically and as a part of the social movement  since the 1940s, and during the dictatorships in the 1960s-1980s.
  • The revival of Korean modern poetry was marked by the publication of Daum's poet anthology (2009),
  • Based on this chronology, there's a possibility that Red Cry is/are as young as 20 y.o and as old as 60s y.o. 
• Despite this importance, an average Korean student can only interpret a poem based on their personal meanings.
  • Red Cry have knowledge of poetry, but not the sensibility in interpreting the poems contextually nor culturally. So:

Spoiler

 

• They (I use this pronoun for gender neutrality) neither were or are properly trained in the humanities nor social sciences. 
• At worst, they were only exposed to poetry when they were children or adolescents, making their poetry interpretations even more disconnected from the poems' context, since the basis of Korean primary and secondary education system is rote learning. 
• At best, they were once took or sat in a sophomore level of poetry courses, where in Korea means courses where the students interpret the poems according to their own experiences. 

 

• Judging from the diverse methods in the serial killings and the victims' statures, the more strenuous of these killings were probably committed by young, fit male(s?) or female(?), while the verbal attacks could be carried out by weaker or older male(s?) or female(s?). 

Spoiler

 

• In Go's case he was overwhelmed completely by Red Cry despite his stature and his menial job, indicating the strength and youth of the killer.
• In Min Ha-jung's case, she was pressured to kill herself, indicating an ability to manipulate, possible knowledge of psychology, but not necessarily bodily strength of the killer. 

 

 

 

B. Occupational Profiling

• Some of the killings were committed at night and took physical strength to commit.
• At least three of which were done at remote locations, hence

Spoiler

 

• These indicate a job with long working hours, or free nights, with a nearly absolute mobility.
• Trucker, mechanics, police officers, or unemployed persons are possible options. 

 

• Other killings were done by persuasion, indicating possible manipulation skills, knowledge of psychology. Therefore,

 

Spoiler

 

• These indicate a relatively sedentary life/job with constant internet access.
• Psychologists, psychiatrist, counselors, lecturers, IT consultants, gamers, businessmen and women, people who work from home (translators, e-commerce businessmen and women) are possible options.

 

 

 

C. Geographical Profiling

• The fast internet speed in South Korea, especially Seoul (30th in the world by 2018) the wide coverage of wireless network, followed by the availability of the internet for 75% of household make it difficult to map out where exactly Red Cry access the internet from and from which type of areas. 

 

• Their knowledge of Seoul urban landscape points out towards a born and raised Seoulite or at least someone who had spent his adult life for a long time in Seoul.

Spoiler

 

• At some cases, it clearly indicates familiarity with the Haneul Center, and
• with less explored urban areas (where they lured Kang Ji-heon and attacked him). 

 

 

• However, in Go's case it indicated the killer was probably a person who

Spoiler

 

• was more familiar with rural setting, or
• who at least navigated both rural and urban landscapes,
• which once again points towards high mobility. 

 

 

D. Mindset Profiling

• Due to the tendency of average Korean students to connect poems with their own personal turmoil regardless of context, there is a high possibility that Red Cry was an abused child, an eyewitness to such abuse, or an abuser, who is familiar with art but not a poet

 

• The element of sadism in some of the killings is a result to exposure to sadism at a formative age (either during childhood or adolescence). 

 

• The levels of comfort and ability in micro social interactions (personal and face to face) vary. In some of the killings, the victims were approached in a friendly way, in some others they were directly assaulted and killed.

 

 

E. Familial Structure Profiling

• Modern Korean families have been changing in terms of size, membership and values. More women work in the public sphere, and more families spend their time apart. As a result:

Spoiler

 

• Any of these potential sources of conflict could have happened in the suspect(s)' own family or inner circles.
  • either in the form of abused/abuser relationships between parents or parental figure,
  • neglect by parents/parental figures,
  • OR, absence of parents/parental figures. 

 

• The main problem in Korean families is childcare, both the lack of places conducive for childcare and the division of labor within families in maintaining proper childcare, regardless of social class. Consequentially:

Spoiler

 

• There is a possibility that they were seen as burdens by their parents.
  • This must have affected their mindset
• As such, they projected this point of view as abused children to abusive or supposedly abusive parents or parental figures. 
• In cases where Red Cry were probable abusers, they projected their point of view as former abusers to other abusive or supposedly abusive parents or parental figures. 

 

 

• Currently the suspect(s) live in either a very small familial setting or nonexistent familial relationships, which enable them to mobilize and/or to access the internet privately. 

 

Sources

Spoiler

 

Anthony (2014).Korean perspective on poetry. Sogang University Korea. http://anthony.sogang.ac.kr/Outline.htm

 

Kim, Hyun-mee & Yoo, Theodore Jun (2017). Gender, family, and social change in contemporary South Korea. Yonsei University at Coursera. Retrieved from https://www.coursera.org/learn/social-change-korea/home/welcome

 

Hong, S.(2017). I call myself snob: Politics of aesthetics of Korean poetry under dictatorships. International Journal of Korean Humanities and Social Sciences 3 (2017). http://dx.doi.org/10.14746/kr.2017.03.02. Retrieved from https://pressto.amu.edu.pl/index.php/kr/article/download/8283/8162

 

Housekorea. (2017). Internet Providers in South Korea – A Guide to IPS. Housekorea. Retrieved from https://housekorea.net/internet-providers-south-korea-guide-ips/

 

KBS World (2018).S. Korea's Broadband Speed Ranking Slips to 30th. KBS. Retrieved from http://world.kbs.co.kr/service/news_view.htm?lang=e&Seq_Code=139562

Kocsis, Richard (2007). Criminal profiling: Principles and Practice. Humana Press: New York

 

Lee, Da-yoon. (2018). The evolution of family policy in South Korea: From Confucian familism to neo familism. Asian Social Work and Policy Review 12 (1). https://doi.org/10.1111/aswp.12137

 

Left/writelit (2018). 70 Representative Korean Poets. Left/writelit. Retrieved from http://leftwritelit.com/daum-70-representative-korean-poets/

 

Song, Rahn. (2018). Korea's education system needs to change. The Korea Times (August 23, 2018). Retrieved from http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2018/12/181_254202.html