[Drama 2020/2021] Queen Cheorin/Mr. Queen, 철인왕후

[cenching]

18 minutes ago, Mila said:

The great widowed queen was sent to the western palace and the widowed queen was sent to the western palace. Was this a punishment because they had to be confined inside without talking to anyone or because it was less prestigious?

 

I am not sure about Joseon era but in ancient Chinese existed a palace that was called Cold Palace (冷宫) where all the harem women who sinned were banished there until they die. It was like an exile for the women of the harem. So most likely West Palace is something equivalent.

[tazmin]

Yknow what else they could’ve done instead have SY be the central character with her voice but with Bong occupy her body also and be the devil on her shoulder. Egging and pushing her on, maybe sometimes taking over her body momentarily but really help on her journey. Would’ve been hilarious to hear the possible squabbling that would’ve happened in her head 

[backstreetboysfan]

4 hours ago, joonminfan said:

 

 

gonna go find the spin-offs to watch. Are they all available with subs already?

Yeah subs are up.

[kehrite]

Sorry, I'm back with another comment, because I just cannot wrap my head around this ending! Can you IMAGINE experiencing what Bong-hwan did? Not just going back in time, having to adapt to being in someone else's body, the scheming and danger in the court, etc... but you're abruptly married to someone, slowly and warily come to trust each other, then fall deeply in love and form an intense connection to the point that you're staying up all night talking and sharing ideas, can't stay away from each other, and would literally risk your lives for each other, not to mention that you're expecting a baby. You would ride or die for your husband, "all in," even though you know that in the historical record he does not succeed. You also develop close personal friendships with your maidservants, the head chef, the little girl... and then that's all ripped away from you in an instant. You will never see them again, never say goodbye, never get closure, and you can't tell anyone about it. And all we get to see is Bong-hwan tearfully smiling over a portrait of Cheoljong in a book. That's it?! Are we supposed to just accept that BH is glad CJ was a good king, and now he'll just go on with his modern life? That would be absolutely TRAUMATIZING beyond words. I normally dislike sad endings, but it would've been better for the drama to just end sadly and acknowledge how heartbreaking the situation is, rather than painting it as a happy conclusion.  

[aisling]

Edited - misunderstood information.

[tazmin]

50 minutes ago, aisling said:

What if.... the writers didn’t give us this terrible ending because they planned but because they were forced by external pressure in the midway of the drama?

This should’ve been a web drama honestly 

Edited February 16, 2021 by Jillia
Please do not quote pics! Thanks!

[Annie12]

3 hours ago, fionn said:

Ok so I don’t usually post but I wanted to share my thoughts on the ending with you I actually agree with what's been said earlier about SB being BH+SY!

 

So the way I see it, SY was present since SB awoke from her coma/vegetative state. She was not in control, but she was there in SB’s subconscious, hence the confusion, the new feelings etc, all those things SB experienced after waking up. After her coma, SB started to be influenced by SY, which she was not before. SY’s memories came coming back, but so did her feelings, towards her father for example but towards CJ as well. Before the coma, SB only considered CJ from a man to man perspective (for example she did things to appear as ‘cool’ as he did) but after her coma, SB started looking at CJ with new eyes, influenced by SY (when they were at her family home, she was sooo flustered).

 

And SY was even more present after the lake scene. And you can see it through little elements, details, eg SB’s writing was improving, so were her embroidery skills (SB would have not been able to embroider that scarf by herself at the beginning of the drama). Another detail is the way SY and her father seem to always talk at the same time. SB started to shift from being only BH’s soul in SY’s body to being BH’s soul heavily influenced by SY’s. And to be fair, I think SB was aware, to some extent at least, that not all of her actions/reflections/feelings were her own (when doesn’t understand why she is aroused by CJ, when she misses him and wonders why it hurts so much…).

 

And to me what shows best SY’s presence is SB’s reaction to BI’s death. She’s literally in tears and horrified when she sees him die from afar. She breaks down in CJ’s arms saying BI died. SB was always rather cold to BI ; BH was not attached to him in any way. So why would SB react so strongly to BI’s death? Only because he saved her after trying to kill her?

 

As per CJ and him being spoiled of the man/woman/soul he really loves. I find KJH’s explanation on point. Throughout the whole drama, CJ has been explaining everything his wife did through his own perception and according to his own understanding. She was cold after sending him love letters all night? She must be shy. And so on. Just like he did for the banquet, finding a logical explanation for every plate, CJ, in my view, takes a situation and interprets it, according his knowledge, to fit his own perception of the world. As we all do honestly. So I think with BH’s soul gone, he will just do the same with SY.

 

So yeah, overall I think this drama was meant to end like that and the ending was hinted for quite some time in SB’s small but gradual changes in attitude.

 

Honestly, my only problem with the ending is that we did not see enough of SY and CJ together (kinda wanted to see their new dynamic and the babyyyy). If we had one or two scenes more, everyone would have been at least reassured in a way in regards to CJ’s future happiness (and I agree that the sentences like ‘Sometimes I feel like I’ve lost something’ do not help and it would have been better to just leave them out with that kind of ending). Plus a little something for BH as well would have been nice. Of course there are some loopholes (how did she not loose her baby? how did she recover so fast after almost loosing the baby?) but I mean, how did CJ recover so fast from the explosion? The whole goal was to be a funny drama while having a bit of politics/more serious topics on the side, so I don't really care about this stuff.

 

Anyway, this drama was a breeze of fresh air, very enjoyable, the acting was great, the drama was funny, I really liked it, and I think we should all just take a step back and just appreciate what a good time we had watching it!

This!!!!

Couldn't have said it better!

[Some1ran]

24 minutes ago, tazmin said:

This should’ve been a web drama honestly 

or a Netflix Original 

[partyon]

50 minutes ago, aisling said:

What if.... the writers didn’t give us this terrible ending because they planned but because they were forced by external pressure in the midway of the drama

 

 

I doubt it. In the scenes with my oppa Choi Jin Hyuk it was still late summer / early autumn, meaning that these scenes were filmed early on in the drama.

 

Also, he has been rumored to be ill in January / February (not sure how ill he has been, but he hasn't showed his face in a long time - not even for his birthday).

 

My own suspicion is that the drama got the ending that was planned from the start.

[aisling]

16 minutes ago, partyon said:

 

I doubt it. In the scenes with my oppa Choi Jin Hyuk it was still late summer / early autumn, meaning that these scenes were filmed early on in the drama.

 

Also, he has been rumored to be ill in January / February (not sure how ill he has been, but he hasn't showed his face in a long time - not even for his birthday).

 

My own suspicion is that the drama got the ending that was planned from the start.

 

Well I had my hopes high for nothing then... I wanted to give an excuse for that terrible ending but if CJH didn’t shoot anything additional, then it means the writers screwed up big time. I thought they were pressured by all the complaints they received.

[partyon]

10 minutes ago, aisling said:

 

Well I had my hopes high for nothing then... I wanted to give an excuse for that terrible ending but if CJH didn’t shoot anything additional, then it means the writers screwed up big time. I thought they were pressured by all the complaints they received.

Sorry @aisling

 

Since CJH is one of my main oppas, I follow news about him quite a lot.

 

I am just basing my assumptions on his scenes in ep 20 where the trees still had green leaves and it looked warm. And he had a post in the end of January on IG telling us that he was sick.

 

It was when he wrote that Bong Hwan is sick, but apparently he had first posted that he was ill himself. Not sure why he later changed it to Bong Hwan....?

 

In any case, I think that the end game was always going to be what it turned out to be.

Even Go Princess Go had more sensible endings in my own opinion, but it was a surprise to me that the Mr. Queen writers did such a poor job with the ending.

 

[realistic2280a]

8 hours ago, cenching said:

 

Obviously you didn't read majority of my comment here.... Let me tell you one more time, since the beginning I was never have any expectation that SB-CJ is the endgame and I do believe that everything must be put back to it's respective places but the writers were the one didn't do justice and respect the characters they wrote themselves. They did SY-SB down and dirty. They cheapen her as a character, it's NOT about the ending itself but it's about how they executed it. My beef is with the writers NOT the characters.

 

It is just a character afterall...

 

Anyway, like i said before, there are many potholes if not loopholes, in the drama and the somewhat rushed ending, is part of it; it could have been more but it was wasted on some unnecessary scenes to drag it to 20 episodes...... leaving hardcore fans angry (not me) and wanting more justice to the ending they feel was unjustified....hence the bamboo forest episodes... which bring some questions than answers on the plot again.... sigh... Nvm.. 

 

Anyways, time to move on for a new drama.

[Raffles]

Watching the first episode of Bamboo Forest. OMG, the Bionic Man sound effect when Hong Yeon picks up the weight.   Do South Koreans know The Six Million Dollar Man? (I am a child of the 70s.) I think the writers were justifying how she could hurl bombs a hundred feet (I sure was wondering).

 

And the love circle song has lyrics!

[Clemzstar]

Sorry all, don't want to intrude on the discussion on the final episode. 

Wanted to say I loved the show and it is currently my #1 Kdrama especially as a big fan of SHS (Yes I started liking her shows from her char in She was Pretty) 

 

Loved the scene where the Queen is urging the King to go finish his fight while the OST "Here I Am" is playing on the background. Just the stark difference in the Queen after BH soul has left was incredible. Cannot think of any other actress that can pull this off other than SHS.  

 

I have been trying to find this scene on Youtube but not having luck. Just wondering if anyone has a gif of the king slowmo walk towards the palace OR then the king is putting on the scarf for the queen and the queen delicate response. 

 

Loved the show!

Edited February 17, 2021 by Clemzstar

[Raffles]

10 hours ago, Mila said:

This soul exchange was necessary for comedy scenes. It wouldn't have been so funny if there hadn't been a man inside a woman's body trying to escape the feelings that SoYong had for her husband.
However, this instrument was absolutely inadequate for the purpose and ended up generating all the inconsistency. Basically, the writers wanted to harvest rice, but planted beans.

I've been thinking more about this. When a story starts, the writer makes a promise to the reader or viewer. That is to honor the rules of the genre.  When you set out to tell a romance (comedy), you promise to tell this story:

• Boy meets girl
• Boy loses girl
• Boy and girl overcome obstacles
• Boy gets girl (and vs. versa, of course)

This promise gives the viewer permission to invest in the relationship, the safety of knowing that however much it is threatened, the lovers will come together and that her or his emotional investment will be rewarded. 

 

Mr. Queen made the same promise, and followed that formula precisely. So what went wrong? Just this: when the boy gets the girl, define "girl". That is an unusual demand of a romance: "the girl" is the heroine, right? There isn't a debate.

 

In this case, there sure was! The writers should have anticipated that viewers were investing hours in a relationship between two kindred spirits that wasn't going to pay off. The writers broke that promise when the viewers' defenses were down. No wonder they flipped tables. 

 

Holy crap! Was the Bamboo Forest story featuring Jo Hwa Jin's novel really about Mr. Queen and its fans? Oh Wol kept telling her that the palace maids are going to go crazy over this love story, and that if she keeps it up, they are going to tear the palace down. "Why do you keep saying that?"

 

I would lay money on this whole sequence being based on conversations between the writers when the show became a hit.

 

[aren_117]

11 hours ago, tazmin said:

I think ultimate the biggest issue is that there wasn’t enough development for SY in the main series. If you have to resort to a spinoff for required development, that’s a fail imo. 
 

That’s a very diplomatic answer cause in the show, when SB acted like a Queen, CJ freaked out. I’m sure in reality CJ while in love with SY, would’ve been fundamentally confused at what happened to fire in his Queen. Would he stay as in love as he was with SB with SY? Probably not

i do believe that that is one of the flaws of the show. But the writers actually tried. In the chinese version, there were no hints about the og queen. In this drama, the writers actually tried to give more development for SoYong, sometimes focusing on her history, feelings for the king, childhood background with the king, etc. Even without the spinoff, they tried to justify the connection between our royals by using the childhood lovers trope. Unfortunately for them, they werent able to convince the audience about that especially with the king saying to Hwa Jin that he didnt like her just because of what she did when they were kids. 

 

On the fact that I saw SoYong and Bong Hwan as one, I always interpret SoYong as a tamer Bong Hwan. They may have differences in personalities because of the environment they lived in (and their gender) but So Yong and Bong Hwan basically have the same character. They both have the tendencies to break rules, they both have the courage to be cruel and selfish sometimes, and they both treasure those who are important to them. Well, thats just my opinion.

 

If we follow the destiny trope, I do believe that the king will stay in love with the queen. Their meetings arent coincidences and it seemed like they were arranged by fate. Their meeting when they were kids, the love at first sight scene, them being enemies. In those instances, SoYong has been showing the king different sides of her. She was mature in the well, was gentle when they first met as adults, was cruel when they became enemies, was rowdy when she was possessed by Bong Hwan. In the King's eyes all of those personalities are SoYong and he felt all kinds of emotions towards her during those times. I believe that when CJ realized that he is in love, he just didnt fell in love with Bong Hwan's personality but all of SoYong - even the SoYong before Bong Hwan possessed her. Bong Hwan's personality helped him understand the queen more. 

 

And when I say So Yong and Bong Hwan is one, I do believe that CJ fell in love with both SoYong and Bong Hwan. Thats why in my mind, I believe that Bong Hwan will meet CJ's reincarnation in the present time and they will fall in love. The writers did not elaborate but they cannot stop my imagination! haha Theyve been hinting at "next life" in the spinoffs soooo.. hihi

11 hours ago, tazmin said:

That’s a very diplomatic answer cause in the show, when SB acted like a Queen, CJ freaked out. I’m sure in reality CJ while in love with SY, would’ve been fundamentally confused at what happened to fire in his Queen. Would he stay as in love as he was with SB with SY? Probably not

And I guess he was already confused, when he asked the queen why is she calling him formally haha but I believe he stayed in love with her, what with the happy ending Bong Hwan read in the present time. 

[aisling]

When your chemistry is so explosive that your co-star who played the third party of the love triangle has to gush about it.

 

 

 

He looks so good here. It’s a BTS pic, right? In the actual scene he wore a hat and mask.

[yumeaki]

16 hours ago, realistic2280a said:

@xprosperity @yumeaki 

 

This is what i meant... because in the Bamboo Forest episode 1, we saw that she was kind and not as bad as others imagined her to be... So, im just saying, maybe the writers forgot that, and we still dont know why she went bad in a span of a few days after being confirmed as the Queen Designate.

 

Since she liked the King, i dont think she would be silly enough to show her bad side, which in the drama, the King is aware of her bad misdeeds before and expected the worst of her, her being Andong Kim clan and all...

Ok. I think i get what you mean. Like if SY is kind, she shouldn't punish innocent people even if she is just 'acting'. There should be another way to prove that she's a bad choice for a queen. I wonder if her being brought up in a traditional rich Joseon family means she may think corporal punishment is fine and is the best way to provide minimum pain to reach her goal (as long as the palace staff are not punished till they are bedridden, other form of pain will heal). Any other way may not be enough to have her kicked out? Again, I don't remember how long she was in the palace from the time she was chosen as the Queen designate to the time she jumped into the lake but I guess she doesn't cope well with stress. 

 

16 hours ago, cenching said:

@xprosperity @yumeaki @realistic2280a

The writers were having fun writing about SB right until episode 19 and a half after that they were hit by whatever realization so they had to take an U turn. That's why I said they did SY down and dirty.

I have thought the drama finished filming early means the script was completed earlier so the writer should have ample time back then to think and write a consistent storyline. It's not like the writer has to rush to write an ending in a real-time filming drama. I thought the drama was nicely written with some parts in the earlier episodes explained and closed later so I have some expectation for how they will wrap up the story. Then again, I remember a few pre-filmed Kdramas with stories written as if they are written in real time as they filmed. No difference. The writers still couldn't take time to think through the story and the execution. 

 

While I like the spin off (cos I get to see SB-CJ interaction again), the only part I don't like was when SB wished to return to his healthy body. It's like the writer telling us "see, he wants to go back, let him be and be happy about the ending". Okaay... 

 

Anyway I'm not particularly upset about the ending. There's just a slight tinge of emptiness as if something is not completed. i'm not so worried about BH though. Back in his testosterone-filled body, he probably will start womanizing again  Modern world has much temptation and distraction. He will definitely become a better person though having learnt to root for people he cares about. As for SY, I believe BH's behavior will rub off on her and she will become wilder although she will never be crazy - this should be enough for CJ (any tameness can be explained with motherhood). For CJ, he will feel a loss but he likes enough of SB to accept any changes as long as she doesn't turn evil. Anyway he doesn't live long enough so won't be missing a lot (sorry, CJ). 

 

[taeunfighting]

2 hours ago, Clemzstar said:

I have been trying to find this scene on Youtube but not having luck. Just wondering if anyone has a gif of the king slowmo walk towards the palace OR then the king is putting on the scarf for the queen and the queen delicate response.

 

@Clemzstar Thanks for mentioning these lovely scenes! They were my most favorites of the ending. Here is what I have:

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

If these aren't it, feel free to PM me.

[kwayteow_mama]

anyone know about this? If this has been posted before, sorry!!!