[Drama 2013/2014] ♚ Empress Ki (기황후) ♚

[Sleepy Owl]

9 minutes ago, Jillia said:

What came to my mind was why I don't like Wang Yoo is because he is not real... as in he was solely created as a fictional character while everyone else (at least the main characters) is based on historical people. Which is why he feels so unnecessary to me.

 

It's almost like he was created for different reasons:

 

a) A sageuk needs a Korean MALE character who is fighting against the oppression through Yuan-China. The viewer needs a Korean MALE character to root for.

 

b) The titular character is female and even though she is a important historical character and Ha Ji Won a good actress the producers didn't trust she and Ji Chang Wook could bring in the numbers.

 

I don't know. It's like "we need two men fighting while the woman is standing inbetween". And it doesn't feel right. And I have to admit when I voted for whom I'm rooting for I was tempted to choose someone else. But I still root more for Nyang and Togon because their relationship is complicated and more interesting and actually based on historical example. Togon is also acting like a 10 year old boy who lost his toy right now but I don't know these two feel more real to me.

 

But yeah, the writing of the drama doesn't help at all. And I'm also honest... I'm not sure if the plot right now is justifying 50+ episodes.

 

You see, in my opinion it would actually be more interesting to see her grow in ranks in Yuan palace (which she will be shown doing), without much WY and co.'s arc. I have to admit I liked the Last Khan's Vow arc, and WY's involvement in it. It showed how really good he is in politics, but the complete war arc was totally useless in my opinion. WY is shown to be everything what Toghon is not.

 

Now coming to Wang Yoo's inclusion in the drama. I also believe it was not really needed. As I said above too, I wanted to see Nyang doing it all herself, and not be involved in useless not really historically accurate events. I do understand that the showrunners needed a Korean Ruler/character who would stand against Yuan, but then I don't understand why it was needed him when he was not really in history. Why not show Empress Ki rising in ranks, getting a bit corrupt bit by bit, and then be a total Yuan Empress who wanted to have control over Goryeo too, which she actually did for sometime. And another reason was to make it a love triangle, that was also not really a great idea. 

 

We have literally see 20 hours of this drama, and all that happened could be fit in 12-15 episodes. They are wasting time on useless stuff like the war with Turks, and then giving no developments in the character relationships, especially Nyang-WY. 

 

Both men are really immature when it comes to Nyang. Toghon has got bigger problems, he is a puppet King who can anytime be killed and replaced, he lacks allies, he has zero knowledge, knows El Temur plans gain more power, but all he cares about is Nyang, which is funny. He actually needs to show some responsibility, some character as a King, but he is doing nothing. Even his motivation in poisoning El Temur, was to get rid of WY so that Nyang will return to him. So yes, he is acting like a 10 year old here. Wang Yoo on the other hand, I don't understand feels insecure when Nyang is with Toghon, which is understandable, but still while being so, he also does stupid stuff, like the whole Shadow Show thing. None of them see Nyang what she really is and was. Only Lord Tangqishi does it. 

 

Overall many useless things are included in the drama, like the Soccer match, which was good comic relief, but was totally unneeded. I could bring up a long list of WTH moments and plot holes.  

3 minutes ago, larus said:

 I don`t remember.  I dropped it at ep 18. I think I lost interest gradually.

 

There are so much better sageuks. I guess Empress Ki did not grabbed my attention for long.

Yup I checked and that Shadow Show happens in that episode . 

It could have really motivated you to drop it. But yes, there are several better Sageuks than this. 

1 hour ago, corey said:

Really? On the most disliked character list? The manly king who has brains and looks??? I strongly suspects this is all because of Ji Chang Wook - he is so cute, so charismatic in those moments whe is is not playing wimp, that anyone else just pales in comparison. He literally glows - when he is allowed by the script.

 

WY, on the other hand is a mature man, gloomy and serious. Not nearly so cute as oppa. Other than that, why would anyone dislike WY?

 

I suppose WY got hots for SN from the very beginning, lol. I still cannot imagine how can he not recognize that she is a girl. Well, I suppose the plot required that, but c'mon, he hugged her... She had her chest wrapped, but still ...

 

Anyway, I blame the writer. For the characters being inconsistent. For no character arc. For characters doing inexplicable things contrary to common sense. For seemingly wise characters sudddenly acting like 12-year olds.

In comparison to Toghon, yes WY as I said is everything which Toghon is not. Which leaves for the competition. And well I was going to select Toghon in my hated character list, but then I thought I don't like, but not hate him too. But he is the weakest character of this drama till now. I have explained about it all in above and in my previous post where I wrote about the main 7-8 characters in detail till 20th episode. 

 

Now anyone not suspecting Nyang being a girl is still a mystery for me. I just leave it as they all were instructed by the director act as not knowing about her being a girl. I mean no one suspected her for a bit. Really? Seriously? I mean why do we need cross dressing here, or if we did, atleast do it properly. Kudos to Tangqishi for knowing she is a girl just by smelling her. 

 

Apart from that, the story so far lacked common sense and logic, character developments, development in characters' relationships, nothing. They couldn't even manage to keep a good music. I saw this drama long ago, that I don't even remember if things get better or not. But right now, I am watching all episodes on Fast Forward.

[Nodame]

 @Sleepy Owl YES, definitely agree with you her being in the palace on her own with the ropes looking forward to it. I too miss the feisty , strong independent Nyang when she was Jackal.

 

@Jillia Makes sense Kdrama to have Yuan King as ML is not good, so Wang Yoo is a fictional character. Awww. So he is so "perfect" too much -righteous, handsome, loyal, fierce and smart. They chose the right actor for the role. Yes, I TOO am thinking right now with a tighter script this is not needing 50 episodes at all like you.

 

The Turks fight scenes @corey for me too were not that great and YUP filler.

 

So far I am starting to feel the drag of the plot a bit (since mid teens) myself and I understand @larus dropping. I will persevere as I read there will more Tal Tal and our Nyang? I like his character alot (more so when he was training her). I just thought he was nice voice and visuals as Banyan's nephew. (Plus knowing IRL both actors Ha Ji Won and the actor were really close behind the scenes. Is very cool. ) I liked how he challenged Nyang with reading material and asking her what it meant. She was precise and her accurate and brief answers must have made him appreciate her brain. Her persistence as her Uncle saved her despite the cost and glad that Tal Tal could learn from his uncle. 

 

Though I like Wang Yoo more than than Togon right now, as a man for Nyang neither for now. I think she needs to get her groove back as others have been stating. I TOO did not like the shadow puppet scene. I was like (도대체 뭐야? ) when I saw that scene. (WTH, what is this?) So glad it wasn't me alone either.

 

Good to hear that the Queen and her brother come to the end they deserve. 

Edited September 28, 2020 by Nodame

[partyon]

So things got a bit out of hand and I watched until ep 28.... Woops!

I will try to keep my comments to ep 21-24.

 

Ep 21 started off  with the following conversation:

• El Temür tocokroach: -"Don't die"
• Cockroach answered:  -"Yes, sir. Whatever you say sir!"

This conversation sums him up perfectly. Can't believe he got promoted too!

 

Totally unrelated:

I noticed that each time someone dies from a sword blood spouts out of their mouth. Why?

 

Back to ep 21.....

• Nyang was clearly worried about oppa and warned him - thus saving his life
• Empress Dowager sacrificed herself
• Everyone got new clothes! YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
• Jokho is in really good shape for his age
• Tangqishi was being his perceptive self again totally noticing it's Nyang in disguise

Too bad that Nyang was unconscious in the bath tub kiss scene. It was a beautiful scene!

cr: Koala's Playground

 

Ep 22 started off again with the slippery pulse! Can't believe they were even able to tell that Nyang was 3-4 months pregnant just from the pulse.

I need to learn how to detect things like this from the pulse!

We also learnt that:

• Danashiri is infertile and a total b***h ! Can't believe she killed all those people just because she is jealous. Can't believe her brother does everything she asks him to!
• Oppa kept away from Nyang for 4 months to keep her safe. Awww
• The scene where all these people were killed was awful

 

Ep 23 started off with Nyang on the run and giving birth in a cave.

Now I have SOME SERIOUS ISSUES with this. Please someone explain to me:

1. Where did all those candles come from that were in the cave Nyang gave birth in?

2. Why is the baby so big?

3. How come she was able to run around in the forest with the baby on her back IMMEDIATELY after giving birth?

4. How was she able to fight people like that IMMEDIATELY after giving birth?

5. How did the baby survive the fall especially since the dude died?

6. How the heck did she have the strength to dig all those graves to the people IMMEDIATELY after giving birth?

 

I doubt I will get any answers.... <sigh>

 

Other observations:

• The new uniforms are really nice
• Oppa is so heartbroken learning that Nyang is dead. He truly loves her and is 100% dependent on her...
• Danashiri surely has some screws loose in her head! She just can't be sane! Taking the baby and then staging a fake labor!

In the labor scene Danashiri looked like she had constipation

 

But what is this sudden plot twist?

Oppa got a stroke?!??!?!?!?

 

Ep 24 started off with the Empress Dowager being brought back from the monastery. Her head had just been shaved and like MAGIC she suddenly had long hair again.

C'mon!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Oppa really didn't take it well that his wife had killed his beloved Nyang. I actually thought he would strangle her.

He lost his will to live, poor thing.

 

Wang Yoo cried for 2 seconds but then got married. I was like  WHAT?

Oppa is suffering for several episodes and this other guy got a wife?

Nah, that is not cool....

 

Nyang decided that revenge is a dish best served cold, so she froze her heart and started plotting her revenge plan.

Tal Tal helped her, and I can see why some people are shipping Tal Tal with Nyang. He's pretty hot!

 

Soon oppa will be able to see his beloved Nyang again!

[partyon]

2 minutes ago, corey said:

BTW, please remind me - did oppa "do it" at all with Danashiri? I must have ffed too much, because I really can't remember. If he did not, he should have been able to call her bluff with the pregnancy. At least privately.

 Yes, they did it. He was forced to and he was not happy... Can't remember which episode it was, but it wasn't immediately after the wedding. It was later.

 

2 minutes ago, corey said:

You see, this is really what made my cool a little on WY. Firstly, how come he let Nyang stay in Yuan and returned alone to Goryeo. I still cannot get over this. I understand that sexual education sucked big these days, so she perhaps is excused, being so young and all, but WY was a grown up man, a crown prince, he must have had some experience. Never occured to him as well?

And then he just took for granted Nyang's death and moved on.

 

Granted he wanted to avenge her death, but if Nyang was his soulmate I would have expected a bit more grieving from him. Now it was like let's cry for 2 seconds and then let's marry him off....

Like what?

 

At least oppa cried and went mute for several episodes. That's how heartbroken he was....

 

2 minutes ago, corey said:

 

Yes, Tal Tal suddenly is shown as this incredibly wise, learnt and calculating guy. I am sure he would not have left his pregnant girlfriend alone in a hostile country. Or would have taken the precautions not to get her pregnant in the first place.

 

I am really angry with the writer for making our beloved characters do stupid things for the sake of plot development..

 

Tal Tal has been shown to be a wise strategist since the start, but it's nice that he has more screentime now.

I honestly feel like the script writer just changed the script as the drama aired, according to the public's response....

 

<sigh>

[partyon]

4 minutes ago, corey said:

 

But I did not quite like it when together with Bayan they decided to murder oppa in such a cowardly way, when oppa was hiding in the box...

 

Agree, not cool at all! I think Bayan might become "problematic" again later.

 

Is JCW your oppa too ?

 

[partyon]

3 minutes ago, corey said:

IDK if you saw the drama "1% of something". To quote the FL there "All handsome men are oppas". So yes, in that sense he is.

But to tell you the truth, he is not in my age group...Joo Jin Mo is more appropriate age for me...

 

@corey I think we had a similar discussion on the Good Casting thread with regard to our age groups, no?

I think we can agree with Yoona on Kill Me Heal Me:

 

 

All handsome men are my oppas regardless if they're age appropriate or not. Joo Jin Mo is not hot in my opinion, so JCW it is!

 

You should join our discussions on the add subtract thread @corey We're talking Empress Ki there too. Also we need more members to team Subtract

 

Forgot to say about ep 21-24 : the whole counterfeit paper plot line is SOOOOOO boring - I'm fast forwarding all those parts

[Sleepy Owl]

Done with 21-24, so here are my thoughts, with a recap/summary of all episodes. You may skip the recap and read my thoughts in the end. 

 

So episode 21 starts with Nyang saving the day for everyone by signaling El Temur is alive, Toghon ends up saving El Temur, realizing Tangqishi would be on his to palace, and he would gain nothing with El Temur's death. Hence he ends up killing his own assassins. And well El Temur tells Yeom Byung Su to not die, dude he is cockroach, he'll not die that easily. But well, he uses that opportunity to rise in ranks and gain El Temur's favors. The survivors from the opposing force, accuse Dowager Queen to be behind them which leads to her being deposed and ending up in a temple as Nun. El Temur ends up having absolute power now, allows Wang Yu to return to Goryeo briefly in return to his contribution in his cause, Bayan is made Governor of a province, and hence, this way he sends all loyal people of Toghon away from him. Wang Yu leaves for Goryeo, leaving Nyang, with his eunuch and Commander Pak. 

 

In Yuan Nyang and co. continue to search for the vow. They end up reaching the Goryeo village, things happen and they end up knowing the village foreman is actually Jokho. He tells them that the Vow is not with him and hidden somewhere in the palace. Just then Yeom Byung Su arrives, takes away Jokho, tortures him and gets nothing in return. Nyang and co. enter the palace to save Jokho, which already was suicidal, let's call them the suicide squad of the drama. End up saving him, Nyang gets injured by Tangqishi, Toghon saves her, takes her in his bath where she remains underwater, almost dies while Tangqishi argues with Toghon, gets saved by Toghon who in order to bring her back performs mouth to mouth resuscitation on her in between while Tangqishi being there. Like the whole scenario was actually completely set up for that kiss scene, believe me. 

 

So episode 22 starts with Toghon and co. setting up a place for Nyang to stay. Before that while checking Nyang's condition, Dok Man checks her pulse and finds the famous slippery pulse, indicating in her being pregnant. While in her new chamber which is famous to be haunted along with the Previous Khan's supposedly favorite concubine, Nyang continues to have symptoms of pregnancy, which Dok Man confirms while giving her some meds. Lady Park decides to help Nyang run away, while going to temple in order to deliver her child. Our lady evil, Danashiri plots behind her father's back with her brother in order to have her killed. They are able to get Nyang away, everyone gives their letters to their loved ones and family to Nyang in order to deliver, and just then the attack happens, all get killed. Nyang runs away, delivers her baby in cave, realizes that she can be found as her kid starts crying, runs, gets surrounded, pushes a guy down the cliff who goes down with her kid, she gets shot by Yeom the cockroach, and well her plot armor was thick enough to save her. 

 

Thinking about what Wang Yu is up to, well dude is busy saving the falling economy of his country which is actually led by Batulo. Yes save a lady, but kill her subordinates, she'll not really pay you back so well, she'll might to destroy your country's economy. Well, let's just ignore this story, boring af. But Batulo, who is Batulo? This lady 

 

 

Or maybe you remember seeing her like this? 

 

 

Episode 23 starts with Nyang actually being alive, forget about her condition post giving birth, forget that she was shot from point blank by cross bow, she decides to bury her friends. And does it, with the help of Jokho. Emperor on hearing the news of Lady Park's death and above that Nyang's death goes into the shock and suffers from aphasia, thanks to doctor who tells it after checking his pulse. I really thought Emperor would also end up having Slippery Pulse. Well poor Toghon cannot speak, is in shock of 3 deaths, his child's, Lady Park's and more importantly Nyang's one. 

 

Danashiri faking her pregnancy moves to a temple where she finds Nyang's child. Decides to adopt him, saying it her own indeed. Kills all the Nuns of the temple, returns back and fakes her delivery of child. Nyang and Jokho get caught by a slave dealer, who is also involved in the counterfeit voucher case in Goryeo. Well as i said, let us ignore Wang Yu and co. really boring. Anyway, Nyang finds the vow while being captive in the "cursed mirror" given to her by the "Previous Khan's favorite Concubine" who gave it to her before her death. 

 

 In episode 24, El Temur accepts the offer of all 10 Governors providing a consort to the Emperor. But also demand Dowager Queen's return in order to choose them, which El Temur accepts. Danashiri objects firmly, but El Temur does not really mind her. Meanwhile, Bayan back in his province sees Nyang being a slave, asks her to be free, to which the slave dealer tells him pay for her in the auction. Well out Bayan bro ends up paying 3000 coins for her, but he does so because he feels indebted to Nyang because she saved him.

 

 

Nyang offers to be the consort candidate from his provice, to which Tal Tal protests. She tells him that she has grudge against El Temur and co. has the Late King's Vow, and says that she will destroy them, ensure Toghon has the power. She undergoes very hard training, dancing, studying and everything included, the episode ends wtih Nyang arriving in the palace for the selection. 

 

 

Now some comments on the episodes. Too many plot holes. As @partyon Noona pointed, and raised some questions, all those are WTH moments and big plot holes for me. 

 

Danashiri and Tangqishi really lack we call political skills which El Temur is expert in. He is war lord, but a great politician. He would have actually gone against the killing of Lady Park, as firstly it is not really how he would want things to happen, and also stakes would be too high in doing so, even if chances of success were high. There already was a survivor who told Toghon about who all were behind it. 

 

For me, the actual plot starts from here, where Nyang finally entered the palace with her own agenda and revenge, and now we'll see her rising in ranks. I don't really understand what was the need to delay it so much. Wang Yu's arc in Yuan was great, he outshone almost everyone, but well, the counterfeit voucher arc, really feels boring. I know it is to once again connect Wang Yu and Batulo, but really seems to be boring and with some WTH moments too.

 

Danashiri once again shows that she is more inclined towards her emotions than being political while denying Toghon having more consorts. 

 

Now it will be more interesting to see the power struggle happening, since again we have Dowager Queen back in her seat, and also Nyang back as a consort. 

 

Really felt sorry for Toghon. Poor guy went into shock, lost ability to speak. Didn't even know how to write and thus could really not communicate with anyone. Not even share his feelings with his Eunuch who he trusts the most. Kudos to JCW's acting though. 

 

2 hours ago, partyon said:

Granted he wanted to avenge her death, but if Nyang was his soulmate I would have expected a bit more grieving from him. Now it was like let's cry for 2 seconds and then let's marry him off....

Like what?

 

At least oppa cried and went mute for several episodes. That's how heartbroken he was....

Noona, not really want to be that guy, One guy had to save his country's economy, which for me was an important thing. Yes he did grieve for her less, but well WY is shown to be the person to do the right thing, at least things he feels are right. And well, he is shown suffering time to time though, drinking all the time. 

 

And well, Toghon really does not have any other thing to do, I mean bigger responsibility, which will keep him a bit busy from Nyang's thoughts. He has nothing to do, and so continues thinking about her and grieving. 

 

But I am not over the fact that why WY had to leave Nyang. Even Yeom the cockroach and co. we shocked a bit seeing his half squad in Yuan. On one hand he wants Nyang to not do anything dangerous, and then leaves her alone. Big Mistake bro, you need relationship advices I guess.  

[chickfactor]

Historical notes:

 

• Wang Yoo is (sort of) based on King Chunghye who lived during 1315 - 1344
• Empress Gi (Ki) lived during 1315 - 1369/70

 

According to Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chunghye_of_Goryeo

 

(King Chunghye) was remembered in the Goryeosa (History of Goryeo) for his licentious lifestyle, particularly his habit of abducting, raping, and killing women.

 

Ha ha, so, not a good guy.

 

Knowing very little about this time in history, what I'm struck by is how little power Goryeo has against Yuan. Yuan emperor (or prime minister) is able to order the king dethroned or re-enthroned *any* time they want to. They can demand tributes, which is basically slavery, and just do whatever they want to Goryeo.

 

So as far as Wang Yoo marrying that cousin of Danashiri or whatever - I don't think he had any choice. He has to kiss El Temur's butt to regain the throne, and he needs to regain the throne to have a fighting chance to deal with Yuan.

[partyon]

18 minutes ago, chickfactor said:

Historical notes:

 

• Wang Yoo is (sort of) based on King Chunghye who lived during 1315 - 1344
• Empress Gi (Ki) lived during 1315 - 1369/70

 

According to Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chunghye_of_Goryeo

 

(King Chunghye) was remembered in the Goryeosa (History of Goryeo) for his licentious lifestyle, particularly his habit of abducting, raping, and killing women.

 

Ha ha, so, not a good guy.

 

OMG - they really glorified Wang Yoo in this drama! Oppa is starting to look pretty good compared to this guy!

 

[Sleepy Owl]

@chickfactor they said that Wany Yoo is very loosely based on him, and more of a fictional guy in this drama. Of course given Chungye's historical records, he was not at all fit to be portrayed as an MC in any drama. So I consider this guy more as a fictional one. I mean the whole story seems to be fictional to me, just slight based on Historical facts. Anyway, we got to just enjoy the drama, which I am doing on FF. 

 

Goryeo was actually very weak against Yuan and it was only under King Gongmin (The king in Faith), who restored power of Goryeo, it got free from Yuan's influence where Our Empress Ki was actually the one trying control Goryeo. 

 

17 minutes ago, partyon said:

OMG - they really glorified Wang Yoo in this drama! Oppa is starting to look pretty good compared to this guy!

@partyon Noona, they pretty much extra glorified Empress Ki who pretty much did everything against Goryeo 

[chickfactor]

9 hours ago, Sleepy Owl said:

@chickfactor they said that Wany Yoo is very loosely based on him, and more of a fictional guy in this drama. Of course given Chungye's historical records, he was not at all fit to be portrayed as an MC in any drama. So I consider this guy more as a fictional one. I mean the whole story seems to be fictional to me, just slight based on Historical facts. Anyway, we got to just enjoy the drama, which I am doing on FF. 

 

Goryeo was actually very weak against Yuan and it was only under King Gongmin (The king in Faith), who restored power of Goryeo, it got free from Yuan's influence where Our Empress Ki was actually the one trying control Goryeo. 

 

@partyon Noona, they pretty much extra glorified Empress Ki who pretty much did everything against Goryeo

 

 

Interesting fact I just learned, thanks to your post:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chungsuk_of_Goryeo

 

King Gongmin is the brother of King Chunghye. So Gongmin is the good one, Chunghye is the bad one. Whoa.

Edited October 1, 2020 by Jillia
Please do not quote pics! Thanks!

[Nodame]

@Sleepy Owl @partyon @coreygood write ups 

 

@chickfactor thanks for the history facts

 

Yup I am liking Tal Tal more and more.

 

Lol as for anyone who is handsome is oppa, ㅋㅋㅋㅋ hehe true. I am of the Joo Jin Mo time even then he is  younger. But hey can always appreciate ‘oppa’ lol. 
 

Empress Ki 21-24

 

 -Nyang warns the rebels in time that El Temur is NOT dead. Toghon attempt to kill him is going well until he warned that the rebel troops had failed their coup attempt. Toghon calls off the assassin and they are killed on the spot. Queen and El Temur thank him. El Temur does confront Toghon knowing the assassins were part of the eunuchs retinue under him.

 

-The ‘leaders’ are killed and the last one says Empress Dowager was behind it. (In cahoots with El Temur, but she already told Toghon she will shoulder all the blame for Banyan, Wang Yu & Toghon. Just they must promise to raise support and an army . She warns not to be protected at all costs. She is deposed, exiled and becomes a nun. Banyan is rewarded as governor of Liaoyang- province of -10 closest to the Palace. Wang Yu wants his throne back but we know the answer. Instead he asks for permission to see ailing father (a fib). Nyang decides to stay behind to look for the blood vow.

 

They visit Koryo village and Jokho the leader plays them saying many white lies. Nyang elsewhere finds Jokho’s weapon. At the same time, our fave cockroach Yeom Byung Soo is promoted to Head of Palace guards. He figures out Jokho’s identity too. Masked Bool hwa fights Jokho & they all fight Bang & Nyang. The jig is up & he understands El Temur wanting it but not them. He admits he had it and hid it. After Toghon’s dad committed suicide and died, all his staff were killed and he survived escaping through a private tunnel only he was aware of to escape successfully. He doesn’t know where the blood vow and wonders who took it. He gives a valuable clue of a butterfly on it. We know the king is illiterate so there is a special meaning between them. Later we see a butterfly on otherwise blank sheet of paper on the Toghon’s desk.

 

Cockroach Yeom comes for Jokho and Nyang and Bang & Bool Hwa go into hiding. They torture him to no avail . El Temur decides why not make our own fake blood vow with animal blood?

 

Queen thinks she is pregnant. Later she finds out she had a phantom one as she wanted it so desperately her body reacted that way as if she was pregnant. She decides to go to temple to finish her ‘pregnancy’. Lady Pak asks to go to mountains to deliver near mom. Also the Queen is loving her chance to bully Lady Pak. She refuses to have a fake miscarriage and tries to find a baby to be hers.

 

Nyang and Bang and Bool Hwa are now on the run. She was saved by Toghon who saw her wounded and even went as far as putting her a rose petal filled bath. He kisses her underwater to give her oxygen when Tangqisi is suspecting something and unwilling to leave.

 

Toghon successfully hides her as Dokman is called to check on her wounds. He finds out she is with child but does not tell Toghon and Nyang initially. Later with Lady Noh , notices Nyang. Dokman is very caring giving extra clothing, rare fruits, and medications. He knows it’s not Toghon’s and confirms it is with Wang Yu. He promises to protect and help her. Lady Noh and Nyang are cute as she is more sane now.

 

A mirror Nyang used by Lady Noh is called bad luck but will give to her later. She tipped off Nyang about being with child 3-4 months along. She also sewed for Nyang a baby outfit and Nyang is touched. Lady Noh comforts Nyang about being a mom and shares no moms know exactly what to do either. Going back to earlier, Lady Pak and the ladies decide to protect her to go back to Koryo & Wang Yu.

 

The Queen asks Tangqisi to kill Lady Pak as she doesn’t want anyone giving him a child. Yeom chases Nyang to a cliff and an arrow is shot at her. (Seeing her give birth and immediately run around ? Aww so she has the kid early. I was going to say, what?! Jokho of course happens to overhear cockroach and Nyang before she ‘died.’ He gets her and they are on the run only to be picked up by a slave trader. He sees Jokho as a warrior and Nyang as a priceless commodity. )

 

Wang Yu back in Koryo had matters to attend to  fake vouchers from the Yuan envoy. The economy in Koryo will do horribly but Yuan will benefit. We find out Turk female leader is behind it all. Later we see she apologizes to a drunk Wangyu but puts his cape on his sleeping form.

 

Both men hear Nyang is dead. Tangqisi is ticked at being robbed of  the chance of killing her himself. Toghon is shocked speechless with Aphasia. Both men -Wang Yu and Toghon are in disbelief and drink to numb their pain. 

 

Wang Yu is pressured too marry El Temur’s niece. He shares with Tangqisi he will never restore Wang Yu to the throne. Instead unite it with Liaoyang province. Banyan is easing the army and weeding out corrupt officials using their funds to raise and maintain the army. But not enough money. The empress dowager learns of Nyang’s death, the Toghon is in shock and a shell of his former self. They all find out the Queen was behind Lady Pak’s death.

 

The slave trader goes to see Banyan interested in Nyang and he wants her released to no avail. Instead gets him to bid and buys her freedom. Tal Tal doesn’t agree but Banyan is grateful to her. The slave trader used the Turk to run up the prices smart savvy. 

 

Nyang decides to get revenge and decides to no longer follow Wang Yu. She is crying her last tears over him. There is a campaign for Consorts and offers to do it. She asks Banyan who asks to hear her plan first. She wants revenge and she has found the blood vow. It was in the mirror that saved her life and where she found Toghon’s dad’s blood vow. Tal Tal doesn’t agree. But I loved they become reluctant comrades ie and he is making her read books to test her. He escorts her back to the palace. Queen goes there to greet the consort candidates and luckily Nyang missed seeing her.

 

Empress Dowager is back after governors asked El Temur she was needed to choose the consort and NOT the Queen. She sees Nyang. Toghon speaks for the first time at seeing Nyang. 

 

 

 

Edited October 1, 2020 by Nodame

[Sleepy Owl]

9 hours ago, chickfactor said:

 

 

Interesting fact I just learned, thanks to your post:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chungsuk_of_Goryeo

 

King Gongmin is the brother of King Chunghye. So Gongmin is the good one, Chunghye is the bad one. Whoa.

The Empress Ki show runners very smartly dealt with the history of Chungye. He was infamous of abducting and raping women, was a womanizer, led a lustful life and many other not so good things related to him. The showrunners showed it to be a mere rumor spread among the people of Yuan. We see when Wang Yoo enters the palace, Danashiri and co. speaking about those rumors related to him and also well, Danashiri even confronts him in front of Dowager and asks him about those rumors. 

 

But yeah, Gongmin was the good one here, and his wife despite being a lady belonging to one of Yuan's big clans, actually helped him restore Goryeo and make it free from Yuan's control. 

 

 

@Nodame very nice write as always. Tal Tal has been the MVP here for episodes 21-24 for me. Despite his more involvement in the final 2 episodes of the 4, we actually got to see him better. Till now he was not getting that much screen time. We did see how smart he is in the previous episodes too, the more we see him, more smart he seems. His smartness is on par with Wang Yoo or may even surpass him in the next episodes I guess. 

 

I don't care about who is shipped with Nyang. I am officially team WY-Batulo 

[Nodame]

@Sleepy Owl Aww thanks for the kind words. I love your posts. You put so much effort. I feel lazy in comparison. LOL.

I agree I heard good things of Tal Tal from friends who watched it back when it came out. I do like the actor and was waiting for him to have a bigger role . But as we saw him in the beginning --not too much only advising his uncle Banyan here and there. I feel Banyan and him balance each other. Banyan appreciates his intellect and Tal Tal respects his personality and experience. I totally agree we saw more of Tal Tal these last episodes (I loved Nyang and him alot. His being against her but reluctantly agreeing with his Uncle about Nyang. Testing her with the books and asking for her to summarize the books--she does it in a succinct sentence. Plus the fact he was shocked she was applying her going as Consort as going into battle. -She is not wrong.) 

 

LOL I don't mind WY and Batulo actually, I thought back when she first came onto the scene--would there be something between them? 

 

Cockroach Yeom Byung Soo is just living a thousand lives.

 

I finished my other drama METS but then I added more dramas to my rotation. YIKES. LOL. 

 

Enjoying everyone's comments and observations, makes for more fun watching this drama with others. Totally digging this rewatch idea.

[partyon]

EVENT : Re-watch Party with the theme Revenge

 

Chingus, by popular demand we are bringing you a second season of re-watch parties. This time the theme is revenge! Yes, you heard it!

 

The dramas chosen for this season are:

• Money Flower (2017)
• Secret (Love) (2013)
• The Innocent Man (2012)

For more information visit the event thread

 

re: @Lmangla

[joccu]

@Sleepy Owl there was people who shipped batulo with WY when this aired.  there is many videos in youtube.  

 

the amount of time that cockroach Yeom Byung Soo escape his bad fate is funny. I don´t even remember his end. He the only one I don´t remember. 

 

 

 

 

[Sleepy Owl]

21 minutes ago, joccu said:

@Sleepy Owl there was people who shipped batulo with WY when this aired.  there is many videos in youtube.  

 

the amount of time that cockroach Yeom Byung Soo escape his bad fate is funny. I don´t even remember his end. He the only one I don´t remember. 

 

 

 

 

Happy to know others felt same as me too. Team WY-Batulo let's go 

 

Spoiler

I do know this ship will sink like anything though. 

As for the Cockroach, well, even I don't remember what happens to him. Really want him dead 

 

@Nodame I agree with your point on Bayan and Tal Tal. They do compliment each other and come as a set. Bayan has got the experience, and Tal Tal is the strategist. Sometimes brute force is required in certain situations and sometimes strategy. So their partnership is actually really good so far. Bayan sometimes follows instinct, but is sometimes warned by possible dangers by Tal Tal which later prove to be correct. 

[partyon]

Time for commenting on ep 25-28. (I am about to start ep 38 soon )

 

In any case let me try to go back to the episodes and remember....

 

Main points:

• Wang Yoo got a beard - ok, maybe not a beard but some facial hair....
• 
• I guess this is for his inner transformation of believing that Seungnyang is dead
• Nyang and oppa finally reunited and boy did they look good together! Oppa in purple clothes and Nyang in a white dress
• 
• Oppa was so happy seeing her and even she looked a bit happy to see him
• Then Nyang tells him she's only there for revenge and that if he helps her with it, she will help him become true emperor. Poor oppa is sad, but if it means that he can keep Nyang around for longer, he'll take the deal. Poor boy really loves her.
• We see how determined Nyang is and how steely ice cold she's become. She wants her revenge and she will stop at nothing. She has frozen her own emotions in order to achieve it.
• Tanashiri shows what an amateur she is. She is unable to strategize because she is too emotional. A true narcissist in every sense.
• The voucher story is sooooooooooooo booooooooooooooooooorrrrrrrriiiingggg
• Tal Tal is turning out to be one smart dude!
• In ep 27 Nyang starts teaching our illiterate oppa how to read and write. She's a harsh teacher but that's the way she can keep oppa determined to learn. She inspires him not tp give up
• Tanashiri is being mean to Nyang locking her in the archive. Wish Tanashiri would get a different game....

 

Not sure who is watching this drama anymore so tagging:

@corey @joccu @Sleepy Owl @Nodame @chickfactor 

[joccu]

I will try and comment tomorrow about ep 25-28.

 

but like everyone else. I like that tal tal is like the smartest guy right now. 

[partyon]

1 minute ago, corey said:

Can anyone tell me why exactly Nyang turned out to be so steely ice cold. Because she overheard that Wang Yoo got married? I mean, really, that is all that took her to go numb? What did she expect, being missing for so long, he had every right to consider her dead. Secondly, this is the time when having multiple wifes was no big deal. Unless she set her heart on being queen, as Wang Yoo promised???

 

I think she became steely ice cold because Tanashiri had Tangqishi attack the convoy and kill the consort and all those Korean women. In the same attack her baby died - or that's what she believes.

That is the main part of her revenge, as far as I can tell.

 

1 minute ago, corey said:

Anyway, I am really annoyed that this has never been discussed between the parties concerned.

Some trivia:

I never understood why exactly oppa was not taught to read and write. Was it explained and I missed it? I would have thought that his mother would take care of his education, or his eunuch? It is not that he had no time or brains to do it...

I don't think this was explained very well but if I assume El Temür had been in power for  a long time, and by keeping oppa uneducated he could make sure he turned out to become a puppet emperor.

 

1 minute ago, corey said:

Yes, Tal Tal is suddenly this very wise guy. Why not being wise before?

Tal Tal was always shown to be very wise since the start of the drama, but since he now got more screentime, I think it comes out more.

 

1 minute ago, corey said:

Aaaand, finally. There is just  no way, I repeat no way that Nyang can survive three days without water and copy this book 100 times. This was even worse than her giving birth and running and fighting immediately afterwards....

I agree.