[Drama 2013/2014] ♚ Empress Ki (기황후) ♚

[partyon]

Great thoughts @Nodame Thanks for them

 

Here are my thoughts for ep 17-20.

 

1. Every week I think the music can't get any worse. Every week:

 

2. El Temür just won't die. Yeom and him are made from the same tenacious cockroach material, and I just want the both of them to be put in a rocket and sent to Jupiter.

 

3. Loved how oppa was trying to make Nyang happy and invited her to a shadow play. He really wanted to do something nice for her.

 

4. I also noticed that they are communicating more openly with each other. She is able to show a wider range of emotions towards him - also anger and express clearly what she wants.

 

I feel she is more herself with oppa than she is with Wang Yoo.

With Wang Yoo she is either looking at him "Jeona! Jeona!" or crying. Nyang and Wang Yoo are tied together by their childhood and by their tragic past. It's like it's based on duty and an infatuation, more than it is based on love. She has this notion that she must serve him in order to repay him for trying to save her and her mother.

 

5. It was quite heartbreaking for oppa to realize Nyang's past and the connection to her father.... He felt so backed into a corner, that he finally found the courage to do something about it and try to get rid of cockroach 2 (El Temür). Yeah, he wants to get rid of Wang Yoo too - who can blame him?

Nyang was quite cruel towards oppa when she came clean. Yet afterwards she cried.

Pretty clear that she has feelings for oppa.

 

6. So Nyang and Wang Yoo did it..... That was surprising!

But what was even more surprising was that it wasn't an easy process for Nyang....

She wavered when Wang Yoo asked her to marry him. She couldn't stop thinking and crying about oppa.

So she's finally realizing that oppa moved her heart and that she's in love with him too.

Wang Yoo won this time - let's see what happens in the second round.....

 

7. Glad to see Nyang in Seung Nyang's clothes again.

 

8. Have you guys noticed that oppa calls Nyang "Nyang" whereas Wang Yoo calls her "Seung Nyang"?

I think it's actually quite telling how each man sees her

 

[the8dark8angel]

WY look happy but :

Spoiler

he dont know Sleeping with SY in that night will cost him :

1. lossing SY.

2. lossing his son and eventuly his sons life .

3. many goryo servents that hepled SY  will die

4. his most trusted firends will die .

5. his own life .

.

.

.

and more.

 

[Sleepy Owl]

Nice thoughts and summary @Nodame .

 

Here are my thoughts and summary of 17-20 episodes. I have also included some comments on the main characters in the end after the summary of 4 episodes. 

 

We already saw the El Temur being agitated by all the poster event and also angry over not being able to find the previous Khan's vow. So in 17th episode He storms into the temple where Dowager Queen prays and confronts her over the recent events in the palace regarding the Vow and the posters. By this confrontation, he does come to conclusion that Dowager Empress is not behind those events. On the other hand, we see Wang Yoo angry and angrily breaking the cup in his hand while thinking about Taghon leaning on Nyang.

 

The other day Wang Yoo is invited by the Dowager, Toghon Temur is also supposed to meet her, while Danashiri self invites herself when she learns Wang Yoo is meeting her. Nothing much happens there, Dowager wants to Yuan Princess to marry Wang Yoo, since she is too fond of him and thinks its a waste too for him to be single, apart from the fact that she wants Goryeo and Yuan to stay connected like this. Nyang is supposed to serve the tea, she stumbles, is literally made to fall by that bully maid, Wang Yoo heroically saves Nyang, and acts as a shield, getting burns from the boiling water. Nyang leaves immediately to see Wang Yoo, puts some medicine on his wounds. She promises to return at night, but Toghon knowing it does not let her leave all night.

 

El Temur had already executed all the magicians of the town because of the posters, and wanted it to serve as a warning to ones behind it. He goes for an outing some days later, only to be made to stop and take some cover because of the rain, which results in him seeing more of those posters and getting enraged more. Toghon wants to use this opportunity, having found some hidden allies and gain the upper hand over El Temur, he tries to find the Vow too using Bayan and Tal Tal and also Nyang helping him for it. Wang Yoo comes up with another plan of collecting rats and making them free in the palace to make it look like Late Khan's curse's beginning. 

 

Before that we do see Toghon setting up a shadow show for Nyang, which Danashiri thinks is set up for her, and invites Wang Yoo for it too. Now again, Danashiri is evil, no doubt in that, but she was evil from start, she was a spoiler brat who became like this because of the Toghon's constant negligence towards her. The happiness she showed while knowing that the shadow show was for her was genuine, same was the case with her enjoying the show and happy for it to be done for her by Toghon. While in reality, Toghon and Wang Yoo were in tug of war using Nyang was the rope. 

 

Episode 18 starts with Wang Yoo's plan working and rats moving all over the palace. We do see Wang Yoo winning Danashiri's heart more by picking her up heroically when she was surrounded by rats and saving her from them. Look Toghon, this is how you win a lady's heart, by poetry, by football and picking her up when she is danger and not by throwing constant tantrums, acting silly and teasing her to the point of annoyance. Anyway, so Wang Yoo uses all these incidents to spread rumors among the public regarding Khan's curse. And then we see Buddha's statue crying blood, which even Wang Yoo does not know who is behind, but is revealed to be Nyang's work. Wang Yoo one steps forward and meets up El Temur winning his trust, only to make Tangqishi more jealous of him and get scolded by El Temur.

 

We come to know that the vow was given by Khan to his eunuch named Jokho, whose whereabouts are not known to anyone. Yom Byeong Su aka The cockroach continues his search for clues in the Goryeo village by getting nearer to the village foreman. Bayan finds Jokho and sets up a meeting with him. Despite everyone's constant request, Toghon deicides to meet Jokho himself, only to know that he has fallen in the trap of Tangqishi, and so seems the case for Wang Yoo who was also invited to the same Tavern. Things get messy, when El Temur comes, he is about kill Toghon but then Dowager Queen arrives and stops it, and leaves with Toghon. On the other hand Tangqishi also having caught Nyang, points sword towards Wang Yoo having proved that he was indeed the man behind posters, only to be punched in public by El Temur who is furious on him for doubting Wang Yoo. We see them taking away Nyang, who is later freed by El Temur in exchange of Wang Yoo helping him.

 

Episode 19 starts with Wang Yoo saving Nyang while she was tortured and also punching Tangqishi once who loses his consciousness with one punch. I mean how can someone be so weak? This is not the first time we see him passing out after being punched once. Toghon comes to know that Nyang has left with Wang Yoo and is not longer a palace maid, to which he tries to speak with El Temur, only to be insulted by him. We see Wang Yoo treating and taking care of Nyang who has fever because of the wounds from torture. And meanwhile also buying some poison toad skins. Tal Tal following them comes to know about and gets an idea what they are upto. 

 

Wang Yoo meets El Temur and tells him about the plan. He tells him that he has to die, for his hidden enemies come out. Shows him the wine, mixed with the poison, which does not kill, but weakens the pulses and slowers the breathing making people think the person is dead. This trick is first tried on Tangqishi, which actually serves him well, if only they tried real poison and killed him. Well, Toghon loves the idea and decides to go for it. On the side, since Tal Tal has come to know about their plan, meets up with Toghon and he order them to try and replace with real poison. This will help them get rid of both Wang Yoo and El Temur altogether. Thinking this way since Wang Yoo will be executed Nyang will return to him, the typical Monarch's thoughts. 

 

We come to know that the Goryeo Village foreman was actually Jokho and wears wig, which is much better than most of the ones that MC's of Sageuks are made to wear. Toghon confronts Nyang saying how could she leave him like this, only to come know about her hate for him and the fact that Ki jaho was her father who died because of him as a traitor while being the one who protected him. Tal Tal and Bayan successfully replace the wne bottle, El Temur decides to declare a state of emergency, calls for a yurt court on palace grounds, locks up Dowager Queen so she does not cause problems. Has his drink and collapses, and so does her tester who dies outside the tent in the palace, seeing which Nyang comes to know is real poison. 

 

In Episode 20, we see El Temur not faring well against the poison, in a critical condition. Toghon orders Wang Yoo to be arrested as he was the one who gave wine to El Temur. We see Wang Yoo and Tangqishi arguing over Wang Yoo trying to kill El Temur, only to be interrupted by Danashiri, who asks Wang Yoo to help them find the real killer. Wang Yoo accepts, asks Danashiri to tell her brother follow the plan, while he tries to gain more info from the other side. He meets up with Dowager Queen, tells her that he was guy behind the posters and says that now that El Temur is on deathbed, they need to gain control before Tangqishi replaces him. Dowager meets up with two of the closest generals of El Temur separately, who are the strongest people in court after him. Requests both of them to assume Regency, but only after subduing Tangqishi's army to gain control and telling each of thm to take help from the other. Nyang on the other hands meet up with Danashiri in place of Wang Yoo and tells her about the plans of both General Bang and Jugukchong for a coup. Danashiri informs her brothers about it and we them moving El Temur out of the palace, making people more sure about his critical condition and making many think he is dead. 

 

Wang Yoo proposes Nyang, by giving her a hairpin, and tells her that if she wears it, he'll take her answer as yes. He waits for her in the morning, only to see her not wearing it, and feels sad about it. But she does wear it later, and Wang Yoo really does get happy about it. Wang Yoo wants Dowager Empress to include Bayan and Tal Tal in their plan, but she is not so sure about it and decides against it. We see Wang Yoo meeting them later though and proposing a plan to them. Later that night, Wang Yoo meets up with Nyang, combs her hair for her, and shares how much he regrets freeing the slaves years ago, which resulted in many people's death, including the death of a daughter and mother. Nyang tells him that she was the daughter he is talking about and that she never hated him for doing it and does not blame him for it, and asks him not to blame himself a lot for it. They share a kiss then and then BOOM, we them having slept together. 

 

Next day which seems to be the D-day arrives, Wang Yoo and co. are told that El Temur had died by Tangqishi. They prepare to fight off the combined forces of the 2 guys promised regency by the Dowager Queen, at night. Roaming in the palace, Nyang sees Bean Broth being taken to the Queen's quarter which is only to be drunk by El Temur. It comes to be known that drinking bean broth which works against toxins, which meant that El Temur had already trained his body against potential poisoning. Sneaky guy I'd say. Nyang rushes to Wang Yoo, who has plans to kill off Tangqishi during their fight with the two regent potentials. But before that she informs Toghon about it, who after confirming it, plans to assassinate El Temur in the palace. She kills one of them using the arrow with white cloth on it, indicating El Temur being alive to Wang Yoo and co. where the episode ends. 

 

 

 

Now my thoughts on some characters after 20 episodes. 

 

1. Nyang. Since she is the ML, we got to speak about her first. Her love for Wang Yoo is still a mystery for me as to when and how happened, but let us just accept that it happened. Not much development in her character I guess, except the fact that we do get some development in her and Toghon's love hate relationship. We see her thinking about him, while holding the hairpin given by Wang Yoo as a marriage proposal to her, which has got me confused. Is she loving both of them? Is she having second thoughts? Whatever it is, I think we'll not see much of Nyang-Toghon love happening too, we know Toghon loves her, but Nyang, her love for him seems sudden if it is and I think we'll see her fall for him in a similar way as she did for Wang Yoo. 

 

2. Wang Yoo. Everyone's favorite on the drama. By everyone I mean, every character's favorite. El Temur loves him, Dowager Queen loves to the extent that sometimes it feels like she also has got crush on him. And well Danashiri has got the hugest crush on him, while Nyang loves him too. Very few people hate him, and the reason for their hate is usually because he is loved by others. I think we get to see his brilliant diplomacy in the last 5-6 episodes, since he started searching for the vow, while also making El Temur confused by all those rats and poster events. Many may raise up questions as to how he could pull it off, but he actively acted a double agent or better say triple agent in all this El Temur poisoning case, and somewhat makes out alive and does not lose anyone's trust in this process. I think all the war thing, sort of was a waste in showing his skills, which the recent episodes in a much better way. 

 

3. Toghon. Toghon, to me till now has been the weakest character. Not at all mature, sort of mature lately, but not really. Lacks the skills of a politician, knows nothing about diplomacy, is living the luxurious life of a puppet monarch, who fools around a maid who he loves while not really trying to gain more power and weaken the regent. Which he does try later, but his motives are not so pure. I did say he was like a typical monarch, thinking to get Wang Yoo killed in all the El Temur poisoning incident, just so that Nyang could come back to him. We have seen countless monarchs doing the same. His negligence to his wife, has resulted in her becoming more cruel, and also made things somewhat politically unstable in the palace. Let us see whether he'll improve or not, but this memes worries me a lot 

 

 

4. Danashiri. We got to see her as a spoiled brat of El Temur, who lacks basic manners, is arrogant and thinks highly about herself. She fails in sleeping with Toghon, who just does not feel like doing it with her, firstly because he gets reminded on El Temur after seeing her face, and secondly, he was asked not to do it with her by Dowager Queen. Time to time we have seen her somewhat yearning for Toghon, or getting frustrated at not being seen as a woman by him. She longs to be loved by him, but does not get any and it is what is actually pushing her to do things which she may not have done till now. And time to time we have seen her get excited just to the news of Toghon coming to meet her. Her joy and happiness in watching the shadow show cannot be described in words, and so does her happiness of thinking it to be something set up by Toghon for her. Not trying to defend her evil acts, which are totally wrong, but the fact that once we saw her saying that she became like this because of Toghon was not completely wrong. If he had partially fulfilled his duty as husband for her, maybe she would not turn so evil. Plus well, we see her falling for Wang Yoo and being delusional in him liking her too. But as I said, she has got the hugest crush out there on Wang Yoo. 

 

5. El Temur. This guy is the sneaky out there. Preparing his body for years against poisoning. Has the power, does not hesitate in displaying it and using it. Wanted to be the true Emperor by killing Toghon, but decided to be the man behind the King, big mistake I'd say. But for now he has got the ultimate power in Yuan and no one can really match up to his political power, but in status, he has got Dowager Queen as his equal. 

 

6. Dowager Queen. She seems to be worrying a lot for Toghon, but in reality, she is very similar to El Temur, in terms of thirst for power. She knows, in the end it will be either her or El Temur, as the person controlling the Emperor. Has taken Toghon's side, because El Temur is the guy against him. She just like El Temur, has been controlling Toghon. Wants him to follow all the plans she sets up for him, which sort of is a wise thing, because Toghon is stupid af when it comes to political decisions. We'll have to see how she'll manage in the future, but for Toghon, it is best for him, that El Temur and Dowager Queen continue their power battle and that power remains balanced between them, otherwise, the one with more power will control him, which seems to be the case of El Temur, who currently has got the upper hand.

 

7.Tangqishi. Finally the last character I want to write about is this guy. We had a talk a couple weeks ago about this guy's perception skills. He is highly perceptive of both Wang Yoo and Nyang. Especially Nyang. Is frustrated by the fact that he is falling for her, but he was the one who first became suspicious of Nyang not giving poison to Lady Park to cause miscarriage. Same becomes the case with Wang Yoo, who when offers to help El Temur, becomes suspicious of his intentions. Sort of traps him too, only to be humiliated by his father in front of everyone, who tells him that he is just jealous. He might be jealous, I mean is actually jealous, but he knows one basic thing, which no one or at least not many have till now figured out, and that is never trust Nyang and Wang Yoo. Whatever they are doing is, for themselves and not for their enemies. 

 

8. Yeom Byung soo. One word for him. Cockroach.

[Nodame]

@the8dark8angel Sigh. I know as I did read all the recaps/blurbs (quickly) back when it aired. Just finally committing to watch it during this rewatch party.

 

@partyon LOL yeah the music===though not great is not jarring to me. BUT it is also not as enjoyable as other Korean drama OSTS that I enjoy. So I do find the music not really memorable to me (unless it is a ballad). Great post and love your thoughts.

 

@Sleepy Owl Love your very dedicated and detailed recap. So much time and attention, I felt I was reliving the episode reading it. Thank you! I love your nickname for Byung Soo (cockroach) I will use that from now on.  I wrote one character in "Once Again" as leech and others in the forum started it in place of her character name. (LOL the actress was that good but this actor takes Yeom Byung Soo to another level of evil and being despicable. Makes me sad as one of my sweetest dongsengs is named Byung Soo too.)

 

LOL yeah Jokho's wig was DEFINITELY higher quality in this saeguk. Great observation and I so agree. Also your commentary of Wang Yoo kissing Nyang and "boom" they are in bed is soooo true. Just sock me in the face with a bowling ball please.

 

Nyang's love to WY (me too) is not one I believe. I said before I feel more of servant/vassal to king than actual equal footing relationship. I feel with Togon she has more chance to be on equal footing and she knows of his embarrassing and vulnerable moments. Def concur with your thoughts on this love triangle.

 

Your thoughts on the other characters I totally concur. Thanks for your awesome write up. 

 

I cannot wait to read @Jillia comments.

[MTC771]

Just done watching the series. Here’s my POV.

 

The drama was at it’s best during the first 5 episodes. There were lots of boring moments after that and the ending seemed rush. 
WY’s character has lost it’s real role, to be honest most of his scenes seems to be made just for him to keep on existing, some of them were boring as well and his life is truly tragic. 
 

WY and TH.

I think what disappointed me with WY’s character is how indecesive his character role was. He was being portrayed as a good king at the beginning but in the end it became most for his love story. Like yeah, as if the character himself or the writers, doesn’t know if his character should stick to being a good king or SN’s lover... it was all over the place. 
But nevertheless, they were able to show how good of a king he was. Though his actions weren’t too clever for a king but yes, he was able to show his desperation for his kingdom’s situation in the end. 
 

TH, there were some parts where he was incredibly annoying and parts where I wish SN would just leave him.

I think what I liked about his character is how decesive he was, he know what he wants and will do everything for it. 
 

SN, I love the manly SN. Honestly speaking, the love sick SN was annoying for me and HJW’s acting in those scenes weren’t great as well.

Although I find it hard to believe how can she be stronger than those brute men who have been fighting and training longer than her. It was entetaining to see her get revenge. Her schemes and ruthlesness is what made her a really great character to watch.

Although, I honestly disliked how she treated Maha even after finding out the truth about him.

 

The most talked about and debatable part of this series is the love triangle. I think she both loved them in different way. WY was her first love or first crush, but their moments together stayed with servant/master so it wasn’t fully developed. She will never see him as her partner or someone equal because he will always be her king.

While with TH, I think it helped that she saw his feelings, he never hid it. From the moment she was assigned as his body guard her opinion of him started to change.

She saw him as the emperor of the great empire who

also happened to be their enemy. But while guarding him, he saw how he is no different than her. He’s a human who gets scared, gets lonely, missing his family. In a way he saw him as a normal human and not an emperor.

 

When they returned to Koryo and he was taken by El Temur, she hesitated and worried for him and wanted to stop them but WY stopped her- thinking everything is alright. She was worried knowing they could hurt him and knowing he will be afraid.

 

When she accepted the hairpin, she was happy. Like any woman who’d find out their admirable king likes them. But then TH crossed her mind and she hesitated. If she doesn’t really feel anything for him, he wouldn’t cross her mind nor would he care about what he may feel.

 

Another thing is, when she was injured and TH offered to help her. She rejected it at first, out of fear that she will put him in trouble.

 

Though SN hate TH, I think there was a especial bond that ws formed between them when she started to become his body guard. It wasn’t love at that time but she really did started to care for him(like asking WY to bring a cook for TH and sewer cuz his clothes were torn) you can see WY’s jealousy in those scenes.

 

At time that I think, though she has a crush for WY... her feelings for TH was also developing into someone she care about. That’s why his betrayal hurts her. 
 

Anyways I think she both loved them in different ways, it just happened that her feelings for TH grew more because of the times, dangers, failures and victories that they shared and mostly because, from the start TH was always a normal person in her eyes and not some majestic person.

[Nodame]

@MTC771 Thanks for your thoughts on the character and overall thoughts.

I think I can see what you say about Nyang and Wang You and TH. I think what you wrote about Nyang with TH growing and developing to be an actual relationship and caring and friendship on equal footing.(I totally agree.) Wang You is always a different level being her king. Though he is handsome and crush,I agree she is never on equal footing with him. Plus when she accepted his confession, he admitted he did not know her well.  Someone mentioned WY calls her SN and TH calls her Nyang. Very telling indeed.

 

@Jillia Thanks my friend and you have alot on your plate. I get you. If I had NOT had one day in last weekend, I would be totally behind schedule. I do look forward to your write up when you are able to do it on your own terms. See you in the other forums I see you in!

 

 

[partyon]

8 hours ago, Sleepy Owl said:

1. Nyang. Since she is the ML, we got to speak about her first. Her love for Wang Yoo is still a mystery for me as to when and how happened, but let us just accept that it happened. Not much development in her character I guess, except the fact that we do get some development in her and Toghon's love hate relationship. We see her thinking about him, while holding the hairpin given by Wang Yoo as a marriage proposal to her, which has got me confused. Is she loving both of them? Is she having second thoughts? Whatever it is, I think we'll not see much of Nyang-Toghon love happening too, we know Toghon loves her, but Nyang, her love for him seems sudden if it is and I think we'll see her fall for him in a similar way as she did for Wang Yoo. 

 

3. His negligence to his wife, has resulted in her becoming more cruel, and also made things somewhat politically unstable in the palace.

<snip>

If he had partially fulfilled his duty as husband for her, maybe she would not turn so evil.

 

1. Yes, I have just accepted that love between Wang Yoo and Nyang happened, despite it not being shown to us.

I actually don't believe that Nyang's love to oppa Toghon is sudden. They went through a lot together when he was in exile, and that made them get closer. I concur with @MTC771 that the reason why she was so hurt by oppa's betrayal, was because she already had feelings for him at that time.

Sure, her feelings are clouded by oppa's betrayal and her resolution not to fall for him, but like I wrote in my previous post, she can be more herself and his equal than she can with Wang Yoo.

Even though oppa is the emperor, they worked as a team to survive while in Koryeo. She is able to show her full range of emotion towards him.

So, leaving him behind for Wang Yoo, whom she also believes she loves, is not an easy feat.  She already has strong feelings for Toghon.

 

3. I would disagree with this point. Sorry dearest dongsaeng.

She was always cruel, even before she married oppa.

A person is always responsible for their own feelings and actions. It is never someone else's fault. So being cruel is on her - and only on her.

 

5 hours ago, MTC771 said:

The most talked about and debatable part of this series is the love triangle. I think she both loved them in different way. WY was her first love or first crush, but their moments together stayed with servant/master so it wasn’t fully developed. She will never see him as her partner or someone equal because he will always be her king.

While with TH, I think it helped that she saw his feelings, he never hid it. From the moment she was assigned as his body guard her opinion of him started to change.

She saw him as the emperor of the great empire who

also happened to be their enemy. But while guarding him, he saw how he is no different than her. He’s a human who gets scared, gets lonely, missing his family. In a way he saw him as a normal human and not an emperor.

 

At time that I think, though she has a crush for WY... her feelings for TH was also developing into someone she care about. That’s why his betrayal hurts her.

 

I would whole heartedly agree with this, and that is what I tried to convey in my previous post too.

Wang Yoo and Nyang have an unequal relationship because she feels like she has to fulfill her duty as a thankful citizen of Koreyo. He saved her and tried to save her mother's life - of course she will feel indebted to him. That's why she can't be herself fully and show all of her feelings to him either.

I will put this in plain text: Nyang is unable to be herself fully with Wang Yoo and the relationship is not built on equality.

 

He also has this wholesome picture of her and feels the need to protect her unable to admit and see that she is more than capable of protecting herself. He sees her as the child Nyang who still needs protection. Kind? Yes. But is it loving a person fully and accepting them as they are? Hardly.

 

5 hours ago, Nodame said:

I think I can see what you say about Nyang and Wang You and TH. I think what you wrote about Nyang with TH growing and developing to be an actual relationship and caring and friendship on equal footing.(I totally agree.) Wang You is always a different level being her king. Though he is handsome and crush,I agree she is never on equal footing with him. Plus when she accepted his confession, he admitted he did not know her well.  Someone mentioned WY calls her SN and TH calls her Nyang. Very telling indeed.

 

It was me who said that Wang Yoo calls her SeungNyang and Toghon calls her Nyang (at least most of the time).

And yes, I believe that is how each man sees her. SeungNyang is Wang Yoo's loyal follower and the fantasy he has created in his head. Nyang is the woman Toghon fell in love with and the one he admires for who she is.

[Sleepy Owl]

10 hours ago, partyon said:

1. Yes, I have just accepted that love between Wang Yoo and Nyang happened, despite it not being shown to us.

I actually don't believe that Nyang's love to oppa Toghon is sudden. They went through a lot together when he was in exile, and that made them get closer. I concur with @MTC771 that the reason why she was so hurt by oppa's betrayal, was because she already had feelings for him at that time.

Sure, her feelings are clouded by oppa's betrayal and her resolution not to fall for him, but like I wrote in my previous post, she can be more herself and his equal than she can with Wang Yoo.

Even though oppa is the emperor, they worked as a team to survive while in Koryeo. She is able to show her full range of emotion towards him.

So, leaving him behind for Wang Yoo, whom she also believes she loves, is not an easy feat.  She already has strong feelings for Toghon.

 

3. I would disagree with this point. Sorry dearest dongsaeng.

She was always cruel, even before she married oppa.

A person is always responsible for their own feelings and actions. It is never someone else's fault. So being cruel is on her - and only on her.

Noona, I am pretty much convinced by all the points everyone saying that Toghon and Nyang are sort of on the same level. She does not see him as someone superior in ranks with her, sometimes may even look down on him. But for Wang Yoo, his status as King does act as a barrier between them. Even though they are both in love, but Nyang looks up to him as her King, and after that as someone who she loves. Which is not the case with Toghon. 

 

As for Danashiri, Noona. She was cruel since start, but that cruelty was more like being a spoiled daughter of regent, who was the most powerful person in country. You see, reason I like Danashiri as a character is, she is not shown completely cruel and evil all the time. She has got a special kind of innocence left in her, some sort childish nature. Small things make her happy, if she comes to know if Toghon has done smallest thing for her, she becomes happy. But again, she was cruel since start, but the cruelty she is developing since becoming Queen is as a result of the actions done by Dowager Queen and Toghon.

 

Toghon was not even sleeping with her and BOOM she comes to know he got a maid pregnant and she'll now be his concubine, while he didn't even lay a finger on her while they were officially married. It is wrong, but this compelled her to start planning to poison Lady Park. This hurt her emotionally, but also hurt her pride as the rumors started spreading in palace about him not even looking at her while at the same time Lady Park being pregnant by his child. You see, having concubines back then was as normal as having water for Emperors, so had he really partially perform his duties as husband to Danashiri, she would not really care about the number of concubines he would have. It was indicated even in an episode that it had been days since Toghon even met her. The emotions she shows while being happy are natural and genuine, and as I said, she is like a child who can be made happy really easily. And well, episode 21 onward she'll do more evil acts. Which I will never justify, she will drop to lower levels and do far worse things which maybe even El Temur would not do. 

 

And Noona, being cruel is her responsibility, but that does not mean no one had a hand in it. We see her saying that she hates both her father and Toghon, because she is realizing how far she is falling down and becoming evil. But time to time we have seen characters turning evil, because of something triggering them to become like that. All Villain have always had reasons for them being evil. So as I said, Danashiri does not have the right to blame anyone for her actions, but for turning into a person like she is now, in my opinion El Temur, Toghon and Dowager Queen all three have got their part in it, especially Toghon. 

[joccu]

I love reading all insights you guys/girls have. 

 

I have never been into writing long post. Not my style.   So good that you all write long post so I can write really short posts 

 

W and S love story is at turning point. 

 

It was clever plan but el temur is still ahead everyone. He still outsmarts everyone. 

[partyon]

22 hours ago, Sleepy Owl said:

And Noona, being cruel is her responsibility, but that does not mean no one had a hand in it. We see her saying that she hates both her father and Toghon, because she is realizing how far she is falling down and becoming evil. But time to time we have seen characters turning evil, because of something triggering them to become like that. All Villain have always had reasons for them being evil. So as I said, Danashiri does not have the right to blame anyone for her actions, but for turning into a person like she is now, in my opinion El Temur, Toghon and Dowager Queen all three have got their part in it, especially Toghon. 

 

My dongsaeng, I can totally understand your viewpoint in all of this.

Yet I don't share your sentiments unfortunately.

First off, she knew going into the marriage that he didn't want to marry her. He didn't care for her, and she knew that. She didn't want to marry him either at first, so it shouldn't have come as a surprise to her that she's in this situation. It's a political marriage.

Also, I have seen her do nothing for Toghon to make him like her. All she's done is scheme and be pretty awful in every sense.

So no, I don't agree that Toghon is at fault here. I know you like her and I am sure she has some redeemable qualities but it's still all on her. She made her bed.

 

14 hours ago, joccu said:

I love reading all insights you guys/girls have.

I have never been into writing long post. Not my style.   So good that you all write long post so I can write really short posts 

W and S love story is at turning point.

It was clever plan but el temur is still ahead everyone. He still outsmarts everyone. 

 

No worries sweetie - I am happy that you're still watching the drama with us

 

11 hours ago, corey said:

I am sure this was discussed before, however, for obvious reasons I was not able to read the entire thread , so forgive me for asking , but could anyone tell me why Togon is supposed to be the second lead??? I believe he gets more screen time than Wang Yu and gets the girl in the end...Why is he considered second???

 

Also- I have been reading the most recent comments from the rewatch and I have a feeling that Togon /Nyang is the preferred ship... And forgive my little cynical me, but do you think ths would be the case if anyone else than Ji Chang Wook portrayed Togon?

 

For me Togon was absolutely no match for Wang Yu - up until the point when WY left Sn and returned to Goryeo alone

 

Nice to see you here @corey

So I am a first time watcher of this sageuk, and am unfortunately not able to answer your questions as I am still on ep 22.

Ji Chang Wook oppa could certainly be clouding my judgement, but I think that I am rooting more for him because of the fact that oppa and Nyang have had more screen time together since the beginning. Their relationship has built up gradually and steadily. Wyang Yoo and Nyang just happened out of the blue and I never got onboard that ship.

 

I agree that maybe oppa shouldn't be called the second ML, because he has so much screen time, but Joo Jin Mo was the bigger star at that time and was credited first.

[partyon]

@Sleepy Owl @joccu @Jillia @Fandomized Q @corey @Nodame @Fangirl22 and anyone else watching this drama:

 

A new poll is up!

 

 

Remember, the poll is for episodes 1-20.

 

re: @Lmangla

 

[partyon]

@Sleepy Owl dongsaeng, who do you ship Nyang with?

 

Yes @Jillia it's true. Tanashiri has the hots for Wang Yoo. Literally everyone has the hots for Wang Yoo (except for me)

[Sleepy Owl]

2 minutes ago, partyon said:

@Sleepy Owl dongsaeng, who do you ship Nyang with?

 

Yes @Jillia it's true. Tanashiri has the hots for Wang Yoo. Literally everyone has the hots for Wang Yoo (except for me)

No one Noona, I am not a shipper, plus I know who she'll end up with. 

 

@Jillia she is falling for him, and thinks Wang Yoo has already fallen for her 

[partyon]

53 minutes ago, corey said:

Ok, I can't believe that I am the only one who believes NS loves WY and ships NS with WY! - And yes, this is just for eps 1 to 20.

 

My ultimate ship after watching until ep. 30 and ep 51 is:

@Jillia might turn it all around for all we know.... Even though I am a bit worried since she did ask me why Wang Yoo wasn't on the most disliked characters list.... lol

[Sleepy Owl]

6 minutes ago, Jillia said:

So I sat through 10 episodes and the only scene that mattered happens in episode 19?

 

Other than that Nyang is just a plot device for Wang Yoo and Togon who both want her but she doesn't really get a say in it. If she isn't acting according to Wang Yoo's wishes he is cold towards her. Just when he gave her the ugly hairpin and she didn't wear it. Like is this kindergarten or what? Same goes for Togon. It's like I'm in lalaland and I need to remind myself this is not only a old drama but a sageuk as well. So women have no say. And I hate that Ha Ji Won is playing a character who literally has no power and her destiny is determined by men. *sigh*

 

I can only hope this changes quickly... I miss the proactive Seungnyang who actually took things in her own hand and it wasn't about Wang Yoo. Because apparently she is turning off her brain when he is around and I still don't get when and why they fell in love.

 

You are right about it. She is like trapped in between those men and their plans. I read the comments where people would actually miss the Jackal, and they were right. Even though we saw it briefly, but I also miss it. She was more decisive during that time, was herself more. 

 

Plus, I really hated the Shadow show scene, where we see both of them literally play tug of war using Nyang, like seriously? Is this Sageuk? Are both of them really Kings of their own countries? Are they really Adult? 

[partyon]

2 minutes ago, Sleepy Owl said:

Plus, I really hated the Shadow show scene, where we see both of them literally play tug of war using Nyang, like seriously? Is this Sageuk? Are both of them really Kings of their own countries? Are they really Adult? 

 

Yeah the shadow play tug of war was so cringe I actually had to fast forward it.

The guys were acting like they were 5 year olds. At the most. Barely.

[partyon]

7 minutes ago, Jillia said:

I hated that scene it made it clear what these past 10 episodes were about. About two boys who want their toy and the toy is Nyang. Time for some slapping for these dudes.

 

I have a feeling this is going to change though. From what I've seen the next episodes will start focusing on her path to become empress. I think her spunk will start to come back....

 

REVENGE IS A DISH BEST SERVED COLD.... muahahaa

 

[partyon]

3 minutes ago, Jillia said:

That better be the case!

 

Yes, let's hope!

 

 

[Sleepy Owl]

29 minutes ago, partyon said:

 

Yeah the shadow play tug of war was so cringe I actually had to fast forward it.

The guys were acting like they were 5 year olds. At the most. Barely.

 

And to think they ended that episode at that part as cliffhanger .

 

I don't understand how I didn't drop the drama on that episode back then. 

 

@larus did you see that tug if war of both kings using Nyang (FL) and decide to drop it? 

 

 

@Jillia, @partyon Noona, I can confirm one thing. All those Tangqishi, Tanashiri will meet a brutal end. But that cockroach Yeom, I don't remember about him. 

[larus]

1 hour ago, Sleepy Owl said:

@larus did you see that tug if war of both kings using Nyang (FL) and decide to drop it? 

 I don`t remember.  I dropped it at ep 18. I think I lost interest gradually.

 

There are so much better sageuks. I guess Empress Ki did not grabbed my attention for long.