[Drama 2020] Alice, 앨리스

[sadthe1st]

it's quite interesting how the drama is handling things taken from another timeline/dimension... like Jin Gyeom and his mom's scarf.. and now, the post-it notes.

 

after going through all the time traveling to steal the Book of Prophesy in 1992; then there would always be the possibility of revisiting 1992 to attempt stealing the same book again if they dun succeed this round. unless that book is so unique that it only exists in a specific timeline/dimension and none in parallel existence.

[Sleepy Owl]

  

10 hours ago, celebrianna said:

@Sleepy Owl, I guess it really depends on JG. As I pointed out before, the future mom in the kidnapping case also murdered the present day mom in order to save the daughter. If anybody is the definition of desperation it was her. She even hired a bounty hunter to execute the Alice personnel who was driving her away from Alice. However, it was clear she wasn’t thinking straight by her impromptu actions, anxiety and nervousness. Both her and Detective Ko basically has the same goal, even more so if he came from another dimension. The difference is Ko has been plotting his action for years in present time. This is why time travel should end. All the instances we’ve been shown of time travel involves murder. 

 

Someone mentioned previously that when time travel comes to an end that all the universes will become one. However, I think by the show’s logic, an action is the past doesn’t impact the current future but instead creates another dimension. So I wonder if the end of time travel means the end of traveling between dimensions because by the show’s logic currently there are limitless dimensions and past actions won’t affect them. I really hope they explain this stuff clearly by the end.

You see, no murder can be justified no matter how much you can reason with the culprits. Yes, the mother had her reasons, the guy who killed his step brother had reasons, not really good ones, but still. Same with Detective Ko. Now as I said before too, JG will reason with Detective Ko since he knows him, when we know someone, we usually find reasons for our loved one's wrong acts. Which is exactly what JG must be doing, he feels it is unfair, but can't help with finding reasons to understand Detective Ko's acts, which he already says is for his wife. I don't think at that time he knows that Detective Ko had killed his mom, if he did kill his mom. I don't know how he will react to it, because it would be hell of a betrayal for Jin Gyeom. 

 

Yes, time travel needs to stop, because people are committing crimes while justifying them for their sufferings. Till now no time travel has been shown to have ended silently. By the way I was thinking, Seok Oh Won told Jin Gyeom 4 murders will be happening. What if the death of step brother, death of mother by her future self, and Tae Yi's sunbae's death is part of it. Which might mean we are left with 1 death now, which could actually be Jin Gyeom's whose prevention will lead to stop of time travel. 

 

You see, I don't know whether the word universe and dimensions have similar meaning in the Korean word used for them. In this drama, talking about different universe sometimes changes the whole meaning behind the theories. Let me explain, different universe means something like TKEM, where in the end, if you didn't drop it, we see the ML going into different universes and see the FL being the same person doing different jobs, sometimes we see her mom being alive and dad dead, sometimes opposite, sometimes both are alive. What I mean is, in parallel universe, your name could be same, but your life could be completely different and opposite. 

 

But here, it is wrong. The time travelers have followed the same life they have when they come to the past. The time traveler mom killed her past self, because she wanted to be with her kid, but also wanted to prevent her kid from going to US and dying there. This created an alternate timeline, or dimension, and not a universe. And now since the alternate timeline is created, even if their past one this past different, meaning if they time travel in past, it will not be the past of this dimension. Each time dimension has got its own past, present and future. You cannot travel between dimensions.

 

Let me explain with example. If Jin Gyeom goes back in time and saves him mom, it will create an alternate timeline. In Jin Gyeom's present him mom will not be present. Which means, if Jin Gyeom once again time travels back, he'll witness his mom dying, or not alive if he arrives in a date after her death had to happen. Which means, after saving his mom, he created a different Time Dimension in which Tae Yi lives, but it will not affect his. 

 

So by the end you are saying all universes becoming one, it means since you will not time travel and make changes in past, no new timelines will be created. But those that were already created will continue on. Those timelines will not merge, but new ones will not be made. 

 

Plus inter-dimension is not happening here I guess. I don't remember who, but someone had said that since Detective Ko does not remember about some past events with his wife, basically about their first date in Namsan Mountains, means he is from another dimension. No, in my opinion, he is from future, but same Detective Ko's future self, who we were seeing. Him claiming not to remember it feels like him not trying to remember beautiful memories with his wife, because he is worried about her death coming. Plus he would also feel sad remembering it because of the same reason. 

 

 

Coming to Do Yeon's conversation with Tae Yi. We pretty much know what they spoke and discussed about it. what I want to add is, Do Yeon sort of believes that this Tae Yi could be his mom who had time traveled back and gave birth to him. She has some ideas about the time traveler mom thanks to her little interview with the kid. So she now knows how Tae Yi actually was and how she became as mother to Jin Gyeom. Which I think is why she was telling her to stay away from him. Because while seeing what all he could do with his mom when she was alive and remembering her everytime he would see her, I think he would also feel sad for his mom, who could be and was so cheerful to lead a life like that. Not do things which she wanted to do, not live a life which she could live as a professor. Jin Gyeom is in denial of them being same, but deep down he knows there is a possibility, even if they existed in same time, because same was the case with the kid's moms too. So I think Do Yeon is realizing that Jin Gyeom is feeling that way too, and so asks Tae Yi to stay away from her. 

[sadthe1st]

@Sleepy Owl i'm going back to flip my physics books... or maybe, astrology as well.

 

 

 

i'm more of a chemistry student though..

 

 

or, we need a zoom session with Director Seok O Won so that he can give us some enlightenment!

[Sleepy Owl]

2 minutes ago, sadthe1st said:

@Sleepy Owl i'm going back to flip my physics books... or maybe, astrology as well.

 

 

i'm more of a chemistry student though..

 

or, we need a zoom session with Director Seok O Won so that he can give us some enlightenment!

I also went through all the theories they discussed in this drama. Had to open old physics book, do some internet searches.

 

I am actually missing the scientific references already, which I think was not used only in this week's episodes I guess. 

 

Even I was more inclined towards Chemistry. Maybe because most of its theory could be understood or were much more possible. A lot of Physics theories really need some impossible perfect conditions, and thus I could not relate much. Overall I am loving the constant scientific references they continue giving it, unlike TKEM where they only teased the mathematics involved where the most ML did was to see how much time would stop by whispering the decimal numbers of Pi and seeing how much time it takes to count till there. 

 

As for Seok Oh Won, let's catch that guy and ask if he really is fishy or not before asking him about the theories. 

[40somethingahjumma]

Time travel has to end. There's no two ways about it. 

But it's not because people are committing murders. That's just the symptom not the disease. Murder is just the extreme manifestation of the core issues.

 

The problem with time travel... at least with how it's presented here... is that it allows a select group of people to wield an incredible amount of power, answerable to no one. Who watches the watchmen? My biggest concern is that the power to travel back in time gives humans god-like powers that they can't handle. We have to rely on the goodwill of those involved in making these decisions. But in the wrong hands... we're all screwed. (Like Thanos in Avengers)

 

Right from the start there's been ethical and moral issues tied to time/world hopping because every time someone goes back to the past, they change not only their past, they potentially change other people's past. This is the law of unintended consequences. You don't have to look at the murders to see the problem. Just see what it does to someone like Seok O-won to be dragged into the fight because he has knowledge of The Book of Prophecy.  Or even Jin-gyeom left all alone without his mother (and father). Then he grows up and becomes a cop. A cop who wants to track down his mother's killer and he succeeds to be killed by her killer. So where does it all end?

 

If time travel is in large part about fixing the past, not everyone wants to undo the past. Even if they did, would it be wise? What if changing the past leads to other unforeseen problems? No one in Alice or the Teacher cult is omniscient as far as I can tell.

 

Alice seems to be about good intentions. But we know that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. The Teacher cult don't seem to have any qualms about using advance tech to get an advantage over people of the past.

 

The big lesson of Alice, I think, is that there's no way of knowing that time travel can alleviate suffering, if that's really the endgame. What if by alleviating one's own suffering, one creates even more? Solving one problem creates others. There is an undoubtedly element of narrow-minded selfishness in all of this. Who gives anyone the right? Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

 

This was the subject matter of the popular and critically acclaimed Star Trek (TOS) episode: The City on the Edge of Forever. 

[Maui808]

I read some where that no new episodes will air this week.

[sadthe1st]

48 minutes ago, Sleepy Owl said:

As for Seok Oh Won, let's catch that guy and ask if he really is fishy or not before asking him about the theories

the safest bet for the time being has to be Do Yeon. we can invite her over for BBQ pork belly and soju, and seek for some journalist insights regarding time travel.

 

 

16 minutes ago, 40somethingahjumma said:

Alice seems to be about good intentions.

Alice can revamp with a simpler solution which we, right now, have the same technology... using codings to recreate a virtual world for their clients and of cos, VR! 

(it's meant to be a little joke!)

 

[flutterby06]

9 hours ago, 40somethingahjumma said:

More thoughts here:

 

  Hide contents

https://lilyroots4love.blogspot.com/2020/09/alice-2020-episodes-9-and-10-families.html

 

 

Thanks for sharing. I liked your take on episode 9 and 10 very much.. The core of Alice is becoming more and more about family.. This is what probably the production meant by Human SF Drama.

 

Quote

On watching the last couple of episodes, I am struck again by how much Alice is fundamentally about family -- the institution as well as the people who form these units. Strip away the time travel mumbo jumbo, the body pile-up and the perpetrator hunt, this show explores family in all its glory and messiness. Space and time be damned... nothing can diminish the pull of family ties. Eventually those who need to find each other... will do so at the right time.

 

I also think the drama is going towards that...and I hope they do so too.. Hope this particular family find each other despite the differences of space and time.

 

Quote

 very much doubt that doppelgangers are at play here either. All this rigmarole about all the Tae-yi manifestations being different persons... sounds dubious. If this show is about parallel universes I'll eat my hat. All I'm seeing appear to be causal loops thus far. I know that the characters keep throwing the multiverse concept around but I'm not buying it.  Unless it's a case of...

 

Same here.. I don't see the case of multiverse here that much. These two Yoon Tae Yi has too much similarity between them for them to be people from multiverse. SBS already presented their character chart as if they're different person, the drama synopsis also says Jin Gyeom Meeting a Women who looks like his mother.. I mean if they says it from the start that these two are mother-son there's no more mystery about it just waiting for the drama to be finished. I think it's just the strategy of the production which may or may not be very appealing to it's viewers.

 

I find it interesting that episode 10 was focused on father figures- Min Hyuk & Go Hyun Seok, their dilemma.. Go Hyun Seok now seems like a well planned culprit but deep down we can't unsee his genuine care for Jin Gyeom, he seems to be trying to say something to Jin gyeom but unable to do so.. Min Hyuk on other hand can't find the strength to confess to Jin Gyeom about the truth of his identity.. He's much to do before that. Interestingly episode 10 quote was-

 

 

 

 

Someone in this thread was probably talking about this scene of episode that when Jin Gyeom's charnel disappeared from picture it meant future has been altered.

 

 

I think it merely meant Jin Gyeom took back traveler Yoon Tae Yi from 2021 to 2020.. The charnel plates/pictures disappeared because those are non existent in present timeline. 

[40somethingahjumma]

56 minutes ago, sadthe1st said:

 

Alice can revamp with a simpler solution which we, right now, have the same technology... using codings to recreate a virtual world for their clients and of cos, VR! 

(it's meant to be a little joke!)

 

Before I knew what was going on in 365: Repeat the Year, this was actually one of my early theories because it did seem like an experiment in psychotherapy to begin with. And on some level it probably was.  It also reminds me of Star Trek: The Next Generation's use of holodecks for roleplaying and reenactment. What did the director in It's Okay not to be Okay call it... psychodrama? 

 

The idea certainly has Matrix-like resonances which is appropriate considering Jin-gyeom's Stop-the-Bullet moment. It wouldn't surprise me if the show is doing some kind of hat tip to The Matrix or shows along those lines especially with a lead character who is an "anomaly", potentially disruptive to the status quo.

 

@flutterby06

It wouldn't be the first time a show trolled its viewers but it baffles my mind why they would go down this road. 

The show has always been careful to show with juxtaposing flashbacks that Jin-gyeom's interest in Professor Tae-yi has to do with her resemblance to his mother and a pang or two of guilt. But then they go and do the other stuff... anyway... I've ranted about this already.

 

To be honest I'm more interested in everything else but that relationship. Although I see the point of it. Even Jin-gyeom's relationship with Hyeon-seok is much more moving (even knowing what would do for his wife) And even when he's confrontations with Min-hyuk have been adversarial from the start, I feel for the two of them for all kinds of reasons. 

 

I root for Min-hyuk all the way. It must be heartbreaking finding out the truth the way he did and that he was looking at family the whole time without even realising it.  On top of that, he can't even bring himself to tell Jin-gyeom about their relationship, wrecked with guilt, regret and anguish.

[GingerK]

1 hour ago, jelly said:

On a superficial note, hello Kwak Si Yang 

 

He has been in loads of other dramas or films that I have watched or heard of. This is the first time where I have seen him properly, and he has this presence that stands out big time in Alice.

 

Regarding his arc, I would like to see more of his role in Alice and with Tae Yi. I wonder how/why he got into Alice in the first place, and how he met Tae Yi as well.

I am hooked on Min Hyuk. Dreamy

[Samuel Yohanes]

NO EPISODE THIS WEEK

 

OH NO MORE TIME TO WAIT FOR NEW EPISODE  

 

really curious with how the drama will turn out haha

[PoisonIvy]

@jelly.. This is my second drama of him.. I watched him in Chicago Typewriter.. I was drawn to him but his negative role played the spoilsport.. 

But in Alice.... 

And yeah me too.. I want to know the back story of Tae Yi and Min Yuk... 

[larus]

Drama Alice won`t air this week because of The Mid-Autumn Festival.

 

 

 

 

 

[flutterby06]

Desperate desire to protect family... 

 

 

[larus]

Alice: Episode 9

by LollyPip

Our leads are growing closer to learning the truth about time travel and their roles in its discovery and (hopefully) ending, though mostly they’re still flailing around without much clear direction. Meanwhile, just being near the woman who reminds him so much of his mother has our endearingly awkward puppet growing closer to being a real boy… if he can stay alive long enough, that is.

 

 
EPISODE 9 RECAP

Time is the coin of your life. It is the only coin you have, and only you can determine how it will be spent. Be careful lest you let other people spend it for you. – Carl Sandburg

After falling off the roof of a high-rise with Hae-min, Tae-yi finds herself unexpectedly in the year 2021. She goes to the police station looking for Jin-gyum, only to learn that he died almost a year ago. She refuses to believe it, when he just saved her life moments ago.

Looking for Jin-gyum, she runs to his mother’s house where they were staying, but it’s obviously been empty for quite a while. She breaks down crying, sobbing that Jin-gyum promised to wait here for her.

In the present (2020), Jin-gyum watches Hae-min’s body being taken away and tries to call Tae-yi, but naturally her phone isn’t working. He also goes to the house, following the tracking app on her phone, which is pinging even though she’s not physically there. We see them standing in the same place, but separated by time.

Jin-gyum sees the sticky notes on the wall where he’d written to Tae-yi and she’d responded. He writes more notes asking if she’s in the house, urging her not to be scared, and promising to save her no matter what year she’s in. A year later, Tae-yi sees the notes and decides to have faith in Jin-gyum.

 

more https://www.dramabeans.com/2020/09/alice-episode-9/

[flutterby06]

Chuseok Greetings from Joo Won!

 

Also today is Joo Won's Birthday... Happy Birthday!

 

Wishing Him a Fun Day. 

 

 

 

[Eliza Marlowe]

I think "that teacher" is Min Hyuk's hyung, Alice's team leader. Coz, he seems so nice (in a weird way) and he is only one left who has those abilities.

[larus]

Alice: Episode 10

by selena

With another death comes more evidence that points to a suspect that’s really close to home. As our stoic cop struggles with coming to terms with the information being presented to him, the others are using their own methods to dig deeper into the investigation. Our hero’s death day looms over the horizon, so the professor works hard to ensure he’s living his life to its fullest while trying to prevent the inevitable.

 

 
EPISODE 10 RECAP

“With Time all things are revealed; Time is the father of truth” – Francois Rabelais

Min-hyuk arrives at the safehouse just as Tae-yi faints. He rushes to help her without any hesitation when he spots the rashes on her arm. Jin-gyum’s understandably wary of his presence, but accepts the help. Things will get bad for her unless she takes the pill that Min-hyuk carries around.

When she’s safe and sound in her bed, Min-hyuk assures Jin-gyum that Tae-yi will wake up soon. The lieutenant demands to know why he’s helping, so Min-hyuk explains that he went on a mission with his mother in 1992. She stayed behind to give birth to him.

Speaking as his mother’s “friend,” Min-hyuk advises Jin-gyum to stop doing dangerous things for her sake – she gave everything up for him. He sincerely apologizes for not knowing that she died or had a son. “I’m sorry I couldn’t protect her.”

Min-hyuk steadies his voice and vows to catch the killer, but Jin-gyum pulls out his gun and reminds him that he’s a suspect. However, because his arrest will alert the other agents and make things difficult for Tae-yi, Min-hyuk gets to walk away unscathed.

After the emotional encounter, he shares a drink with Cheol-am at the Alice bar later that night. The director apologizes for not thoroughly checking Jin-gyum’s background. It’s hard for Cheol-am to believe that Shi-young withheld information, but the fact is that she lied about meeting Tae-yi in 2011 when she already died in 2010.

 

more https://www.dramabeans.com/2020/10/alice-episode-10/

[partyon]

EVENT : Re-watch Party with the theme Revenge

 

Chingus, by popular demand we are bringing you a second season of re-watch parties. This time the theme is revenge! Yes, you heard it!

 

The dramas chosen for this season are:

• Money Flower (2017)
• Secret (Love) (2013)
• The Innocent Man (2012)

For more information visit the event thread

 

re: @Lmangla

[Saja La]

I think this is the first time that the "mother" looks nearly the same age as the father and SON ..... And mother has a crush on son, son confused and father sexy as hell....

 

I've no idea how they will end this k-drama... I hope the won't end that it killed any chance of making a 2nd season of Alice