[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] The Story of Ming Lan 庶女明兰传 / 知否？知否？应是绿肥红瘦

[ForgottenSoulx]

1 hour ago, cheekychipmunk_stv said:

 

QH is such a sad character in the story. He was never his own man. He is owned by his mom and family and later his wife. His life was always run by people. His only 1 happiness in life is ML and his man servant. Both taken from him cruelly by his mom and his scheming wife family. 

 

I guess by marrying his grandson with ML granddaughter is his way of fulfilling his un-fulfilled life time wish to marry ML.

 

I just want to say hes never owned by his wife from whats been spoiled here. 

1 hour ago, gleek49 said:

 

People call QH out on him having no backbone is from his way of dealing with his parents disapproval, not because of him helping her in the polo match or not. If he didn't help her there, the audience would have understood that he was being considerate of her reputation, not calling him a sissy. No one was asking him for help, Madam Wu was going to help her anyway, he's the one who insisted on helping while she refused. I'm not trying to find fault on him here, but I think his action in the polo match was a bit short-sighted. He was not doing anything horrible, only focusing on being her knight in shining armor, trying to show her his affection; but he obviously didn't think far enough on the consequences, how his public display of affection could hurt her. Sure, he couldn't have predicted the crazy Yong Wang family, but he should've at least knew playing polo closely with a outside male would hurt her reputation, make people notice their relationship and anger his mom.

 

Exactly everything you said is 100% what i think. 

[dito]

18 minutes ago, m0us3y said:

Sorry I had to cut your post. This is just too hilarious! 

Because that was exactly what I was thinking when QH shows his affection for ML. 

Rich privileged boy, with poor (lower status) girl. If they get together, this will be like typical kdrama! Fought the odds, a bucket of tears, and then finally they get together. Or if they make it a bad ending, one of them ends up dying from some sickness, and the other mourn for his loved one ever after. 

 

And I was thinking so for once it's more realistic whereby they show the impossible, and why it's not practical, and the grow from the experience, and move on! 

 

So your post just hit the jackpot to me! 

 

Exactly. Just once I'd like to see main leads realize they made a mistake after the happily ever after haze dissipates. Kdramas are the biggest culprit for perpetuating this crap trope of childhood sweethearts are soul mates. And chinese dramas seem to have taken over the rich boy poor girl trope. 

[ForgottenSoulx]

1 hour ago, Golden Flower said:

 

 

I’m referring to script inconsistencies from scene to scene as well as a few scenes with overall theme in regarding to potraying those basic societal norms since they are groundwork of this family drama. 

First eg, I was comfused on why GTY was so angry and accusing ML for destroying his marriage with Yanran (YR) at the desert store since he wasn't supposed to know it was ML who had confrontation with Maniang on behalf of YR. So, how did GTY find out??? MN did not know ML's name or she wasn't from Yu family and MN would not tell GTY that she went to Yu's house. Before that scene, there was a scene where ML was reprimanded verbally by grandma for confronting MN on behalf of YR as granny was worried that her reputation will be ruined as it will be seen as improper conduct for unmarried shu daughter like ML. ML told GM that she dared to confront MN as nobody will know she was the one who had face-off with MN as Yu family would have kept MN's visit as secret (which they did by not mentioning even having marriage proposal from GTY for YR), YR and her grandparents are moving back to their hometown and MN didn't know who she was. 

Woman's reputation, conducts and virtues were one of the main focus of the story, emphasizing that they effect not only her but also her sisters and her maternal family. ML, grandma and Kong Momo have been shown talking about the importance of these conducts a few times. So, why did drama show that GTY know it was ML who prevented his marriage and how did he even manage to find out when Yu family and ML have been deligent in hiding that fact??? To me, this whole scene is out of place. 

 

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In the book, GTY did not know ML’s involvement, he was angry at YR’s grandfather for denying his marriage proposal by saying he forgot about YR’s former verbal proposal from his friend’s grandson. He was just asking ML what was the issue since she is close friend of YR. Then, ML told him about MN’s visit to Yu’s house and YR’s grandfather throwing up blood because of that. 

I know the later part of this scene where GTY and ML cat fight was some of your favorite scene. 

Another eg is the differences in status of woman (main wife, concubine, di vs shu daughters) in this society as one of the main foundations of story. 

(1) the drama let ML manages the house when she gained her own courtyard. 

This act is opposing from main foundation of story which is differences in woman's status. The chance of shu daughter managing government official household in the capital is none in that time period. If it is possible for shu daughter to have this status, why is the drama and book making a big deal about ML needing to be reserved and cautious in nature since she is shu daughter, QH's mom and other characters in drama looking down on her because she is shu born and she can't be with QH because she was shu born. In the book, she just gained her own courtyard and showed her ability to dispose spies from LYN and WS with the help of their own hands like in the drama. Basically, she does not need to be managing the house by herself in order to show her smarts, her growth and her having hands-on experience in managing household to be realistic for her managing General’s house and Marquess Gu house later. They could have made ML helping grandmom or WS. 

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 (2) the conflict in Sheng’s house aroused from SH favoring LYN over main wife. Even a lot of posters are saying how annoying it is for father SH to continually favor Lin Yinaing even after he was told by grandma not to favor her anymore after the death of ML’s mom as it can effect family reputation as well as his reputation as official (as well as after Kong Momo reminded him of the importance of concubine knowing her place and its negative effect on family structure and reputation). They could have shown SH less favoring LYN like in the book or tone it down since it is impossible to be favoring concubine over the main wife in the capital  being governmental official. 

In the book, SH did favors a lot less to Lin Yiniang after listening to grandmom words when ML’s mom died and Kong Momo’s reminder of effecting his officialdom for favoring concubine over main wife, he became more respectful to big madam (WS), and reprimands LYN greatly when she cause ruckus or did not know her place. He even removed Molan from her courtyard and let her move into WS’s courtyard when he realized that Molan conducts becoming improper under her guidance (forgot exact cause). Unlike in the drama, he did not let the girls go back to Master Zhaung’s class at all even after LYN begged him many times. He was really pissed at LYN and even slapped her when she persuades him to talk to Duke Qi family for Molan’s marriage continuously even after he told her it is improper.  In the drama, he was still going to her room even after she committed a big crime of selling properties.    

 

 

 

I just take it as YU family told him before they left or GTY working out that ML was there and connecting the dot's, i personally like the changes around this situation and of course he never knew in the book because they added alot of GTY scene's for the show which is alot better. 

 

I think you are looking at this show a bit to seriously it is a drama not everything needs to be correct exactly to how richard simmons was back then , these characters are fictional as well. 

Also dont get what your trying to say here maybe im the only one. 

[Golden Flower]

11 hours ago, ForgottenSoulx said:

Ling gege? what you on about here ;p

Ling gege is one of the male leads character from Tong Hua’s popular novel and drama Yun Zong Ge. I used him as example for someone who used mother’s last name and his first name (Zhao Ling) as he is one of the most popular male characters to explain why GTY using Bai Ye (Bai his mom’s last name Ye his first name) to hide his real identity in my first post. 

[ForgottenSoulx]

23 minutes ago, m0us3y said:

Sorry I had to cut your post. This is just too hilarious! 

Because that was exactly what I was thinking when QH shows his affection for ML. 

Rich privileged boy, with poor (lower status) girl. If they get together, this will be like typical kdrama! Fought the odds, a bucket of tears, and then finally they get together. Or if they make it a bad ending, one of them ends up dying from some sickness, and the other mourn for his loved one ever after. 

 

And I was thinking so for once it's more realistic whereby they show the impossible, and why it's not practical, and the grow from the experience, and move on! 

 

So your post just hit the jackpot to me! 

 

I like those rich guy poor girl story's .. please xd 

2 minutes ago, Golden Flower said:

Ling gege is one of the male leads character from Tong Hua’s popular novel and drama Yun Zong Ge. I used him as example for someone who used mother’s last name and his first name (Zhao Ling) as he is one of the most popular male characters to explain why GTY using Bai Ye (Bai his mom’s last name Ye his first name) to hide his real identity in my first post. 

 

Thanks 

[zenya22]

5 hours ago, nrbrown said:

Quick question in regards to episodes 24/25. Why was the registration deed of the prositute so important? I have some ideas, but I’m a little bit muddled in that section. Thanks 

@nrbrownDon't know if someone answered your question already but the registration for the prostitute is the leverage that the Sheng family have to make the pretentious, drunkard jerk of a husband and his family to agree to an amicable separation. As the main wife, Shulan would have to approve any concubine brought by husband to the house. Shulan would not approve of rhe prostitute but the idiot husband wants the prostitute since she has a child and he looks down on Shulan. Since the husband thinks of himself as a higher status because he passed the scholar exam and aspires to be one the Sheng family forced that lowlife husband and family to agree because if they don't they will go to the magistrate and sue them with the proof of the prostitute registration and ruin the husbands "status" and reputation. That is why they agreed. 

[tomo74]

I agree if QH become the lead, I won't be in this thread, because I won't watching this drama since I don't like that type of Cinderella story. "GTY is the lead so the favour is on him", I don't know why it become changing the lead, maybe I don't use the correct word to describe it.

About QH helped ML at polo match, I agree, he didn't think before jumped in, that is his character at that time, I guess, he just want to help (without thinking the consequences). He just want to show to ML that he always be there for her (this is just my interpretation and try to put myself in QH's shoes).

And about people will call him sissy, my apologies, I just wrote what I think it might happen (if ML lost and it made her very sad, I imagine people will say like, QH can/should help her) I shouldn't put word in other people's mouth, my bad.

[m0us3y]

I have truly enjoyed the journey of this series so far. Because it isn't just unicorns, cotton candies and ice-cream. 

 

From 1st impression,

QH is actually the perfect fit-the-mold male lead. Good looking, rich, filial, gentleman, son of the noble. 

GTY, he set a good impression when he was young and helped ML. But after they grow up, he really doesn't fit into a typical hero- rebellious, I can understand since he was unfairly treated by the family etc. But you start the hero with a woman with shady background, and he has 2 children with her??? And everytime the Nanny tells him that Manniang was not a good person, he brushes her off, I want to just yell at him to wake up! 

 

But that's when things got interesting for me.

As I found out later that QH is the 2nd lead that never got his love and ended up regretting for the rest of his life.

 

In this show, everyone needs to learn their own lesson, learn to navigate their own fate. 

They make mistakes, and they pay the price. 

Each one probably has somethings they regret, one way or another.

 

ML had her lesson really early in life. Probably ruined her childhood. I do wonder if she has ever felt that if only she didn't complain to the dad about the bullying and condition, Xiaodi (I think thats her name) would not be kicked out of the house, and could she possibly have found a doc sooner and the mom wouldn't die? 

If only she had move faster and got the doc earlier, could the mom have made it? 

If only...

 

GTY also had a reasonably challenged household, which explains his rebellious behaviour. And then the father died, the stepmom suddenly turned against him, and Manniang's true form, he had it tough. And I felt he did regret not staying by his dad right before his passing...

 

But then they move on. They learn, they grow..if they were wronged, they bid their time, gather their thoughts, strategize, and have their revenge. 

 

Fortunately (or unfortunately) for QH, he was sheltered from all these until now. That's of no fault of his, just his circumstances were different. While ML and GTY both understand they are in battlefield everyday, QH lives in an ideal world where everything simply works for him. 

I've not commented that QH has no backbone, but I do think he lack his own convictions, belief and principles. He commented during the debate that ML has no answer because she's not taking the imperial exam and hence need not consider them. But he knows he's taking the exam, yet he too didn't have much of an opinion on it? When he approached ML alone, and she tells him the consequences of things could someone sees them, he could confidently tell her that he'll just marry her and solve everything, when he could proudly tell ML he sent her maid away to meet her, alone..when he decided to play polo with her despite her objections...he simply appeared to me as a person too idealistic and has no idea how their world works. When ML (in the temple) and GTY (during the debate) tried to explain to him the complexities of things, and the intricacies of it all, he heard, but it didn't seem like he listened. 

"Lessons in life will be repeated until they are learned". And everytime it repeats itself, it gets harder. More is at stake, consequences more severe. And that's where QH is heading. He will learn, in a very hard way, that life doesn't always go the way he wants. 

 

ML lost her mum (and bro) at a very young age, never had much love from the dad. The stepmom probably wants her dead too. 

GTY lost his mom, and his dad, stepmom was a fake, the woman he fought so hard to protect was deceiving him.

They both grow from the experience. 

 

QH loses his love. And his servant.

Question is, does he learn and grow from it? Or does he get stuck with his regrets and not move on? 

He's a character that has a lot of potential for growth, and while each and everyone lives with some regrets in life, I hope that doesn't dictate his life. 

 

 

 

[m0us3y]

1 hour ago, ForgottenSoulx said:

I like those rich guy poor girl story's .. please xd 

 

Thanks 

Hahahahahaha. 

My bad. My apologies. 

It was nice for a while...every girl's dream to marry the prince....until marrying the prince just got boring...

Was sick of shows with the rich perfect guy always saving the day and the damsel in distress. Why can't the woman save herself?

And that's why I adore ML. 

 

When QH said he'll protect her, I just wanted to say "that's nice, but I think she is capable of protecting herself!!"

[jewelsc]

1 hour ago, m0us3y said:

Hahahahahaha. 

My bad. My apologies. 

It was nice for a while...every girl's dream to marry the prince....until marrying the prince just got boring...

Was sick of shows with the rich perfect guy always saving the day and the damsel in distress. Why can't the woman save herself?

And that's why I adore ML. 

 

When QH said he'll protect her, I just wanted to say "that's nice, but I think she is capable of protecting herself!!"

And then there's GTY, the hero who wants to save or helpe everyone in distress, ML, her grandma, her friend and even the general and his son and now he wants to help QH ..that's y he ended up with ML, her prince in shining armor.

[m0us3y]

4 minutes ago, jewelsc said:

And then there's GTY, the hero who wants to save or helpe everyone in distress, ML, her grandma, her friend and even the general and his son and now he wants to help QH ..that's y he ended up with ML, her prince in shining armor.

I know right!

ML must be some sort of bandit magnet or something?! 

4 bandit attacks in 3 episodes!! (Including her 1v1 with the fatty, which was more hilarious, and  the attack that she never had) Show is surely out to create opportunities for GTY to save her! 

 

I do prefer that he protects her in secret tho, and not declaring to her and expect returns. 

Especially funny that he shot the lantern and it seemed like she did it, frightening the bandit to run. 

 

I think at some point ML will save him back. She can protect him, and the others around her too!! 

[minoku2209]

Epi25

 

[frenchfan]

9 hours ago, UnniSarah said:

I understand @Golden Flower QH wasn’t weak but as the only heir for his parents he had do whatever it takes to pro this family. During his era he had no other choices. After all he grew up loved and was given everything he ever needed unlike GTY.  GTY was never loved and was wronged his entire life , so he chose to rebel to find some kind of happiness. 

Well said.  GTY had nothing to lose and in a way free to do what he wants (to a certain limit) whereas as I mentioned in earlier posts, QH unfortunately live in golden cage.  Every move he made will have an impact on his noble family.  I feel sad and bad for him.

[frenchfan]

41 minutes ago, m0us3y said:

I know right!

ML must be some sort of bandit magnet or something?! 

4 bandit attacks in 3 episodes!! (Including her 1v1 with the fatty, which was more hilarious, and  the attack that she never had) Show is surely out to create opportunities for GTY to save her! 

 

I do prefer that he protects her in secret tho, and not declaring to her and expect returns. 

Especially funny that he shot the lantern and it seemed like she did it, frightening the bandit to run. 

 

I think at some point ML will save him back. She can protect him, and the others around her too!! 

Yeah that was just so funny.  She thought that she had managed to shoot the bandit in the leg but in fact it was GTY in the background who did it.  Including the lantern.  I kind of like her cousins too and her two loyal maids. 

[leeza77]

59 minutes ago, frenchfan said:

Yeah that was just so funny.  She thought that she had managed to shoot the bandit in the leg but in fact it was GTY in the background who did it.  Including the lantern.  I kind of like her cousins too and her two loyal maids. 

Ha ha.. The servant said to gty after the 2nd time gty saved ml, "sixth miss is really fated with us". 

[thatpers0n]

First off, I am sorry for not quoting the post I am replying to -I forgot. XD

For the person who said about what SL ending might be, for me it's better he died honourably as a SL. It is much better than him having to watch someone he love in someone else arms tbh. 

As for the how this could be like those cliche k-drama I know right. Though I say I would would rather watch that than watching a not pure guy winning a pure girl. 

I honestly feel depress, probably if I just read the novel, I will just complain how I hate the character of ml and not even talk about the SL as I only see him as the ML's bro. But his acting is so good that it just makes you feel depress seeing those longing eyes that you know will never be fix. *I fell for the trap, and so I can only blame myself*

As of today, I will only watch the end. Not found of stories that will just make my heart hurt and whail in pain. Though I will keep on following this thread to get updated as to what is happening. 

 

I also like how @goldenfingers pointed out the difference between QH in the drama and the novel and point out as to why this is how he act. 

 

[linhlinh111]

To previous post who said QH shouldn't help ML in the polo match, QH was in love with ML, ML was in a tough situation. So should he be like: "No worries, somebody else is gonna help her, I should just stay out of it"? That is not something a man in love would think. QH's action is logical and true to his character, maybe not very smart in viewer's opinion, but that's what he was supposed to do.

 

I see many have said that QH should have understood ML's situation instead of being selfish and causing her trouble. Imagine a 15 yr old boy growing up in a pink world, one day he fell in love and suddenly everyone said "No you 2 can't be together" and expected him to just give up? He loved her so he had to go for her. What's wrong with that? After he knew that his action would bring her trouble he tried to be more discreet, but there were moments he couldn't control himself and that was totally normal. He was young, naive, passionate and sometimes a bit less thoughtful, but that was who he is.

 

Viewers sometimes expect him to do things or to not do things that are completely out of his character. QH is not GTY, their backgrounds, situations and personalities are totally different. He is gentle, kind and his way of thinking is straightfoward. He wanted to marry ML so he did it the official way, asking his parents to propose for him. It might not a very smart move but that was how far his mind could go. If he wanted to get married he had to have his parents' approval so he couldn't think of any other way. He wouldn't con or trick his way through bc that was wrong to him.

 

QH refused GTY's help bc the solution he proposed was devious and QH, who lived by his moral code, could not approve. He didn't mess up everything, the situation was already messed up itself. He was cornered and had no other choice but to give ML up. At least he knew when to give up and he only gave up after trying everything he could. If he had 7-8 more yrs of life experience, when he was at GTY's age now he would be perfect for ML, but unfortunately for him ML wouldn't hang around and wait for him forever, so in the end QH and ML just weren't meant for each other.

 

The character QH in the drama was designed very well, from his optimism, to his naivety, to his passion, to his stubbornness. Resulted from his upbringing, his status and his personality, all of his actions till now were reasonable and consistent within the context of the story. After all he's just the second male lead so of course he gotta step back when the lead come on stage.

[JoycceeDreamer]

Did anyone noticed that the actor who plays ChangBei actually played the Water Deity in Ashes of Love or JingMi's father?

 

 

[tomo74]

@linhlinh111I have the same view as you, thought I'm the only one, thank you 

[tomo74]

Does anyone know other website beside viki?, I'm still at ep 25 since the eng subs this time is quite slow, thanks