[Drama 2019] When the Camellia Blooms, 동백꽃 필무렵

[lollyminx]

EPISODE 15

 

Favorite Scenes

• "This one boy of mine is scarier than millions of haters." - Jong-ryeol
• Jong-ryeol goes full Darth Vader and says, "I'm [Pil-gu's] father. I'm [Pil-gu's] biological father."
• "So I've been training the future Lion King?" - Coach 
• "Why haven't you apologized to me?" - Pil-gu 
• I KNEW THAT WAS YEONG-SIM THE MOMENT HER PURPLE PANTS APPEARED AND SHE'S DRAGGING A METAL ROD ON THE GROUND. We finally meet Yeong-sim! It was anti-climactic for me because I was hoping Yeong-sim would be an interesting, eccentric old lady but she's just a "regular" ahjumma.
• "Has my wife always been that cool?" - Gyu-tae
• "A divorce attorney who is divorced herself. Is that good for marketing?" - Hong Ja-yeong
• "More like a tyrant king and his concubine." - one neighborhood ahjumma describing Dong-baek and Deok-sun's relationship as BFFs
• Yong-sik wearing sunglasses is back.  The captain wears one too. 
• The history of Hanbit Academy is revealed and even some of the neighborhood ahjummas and ahjussis know about it. 

 

Thoughts

• It's hilarious watching how Dong-baek and Deok-sun were as bestfriends before Yong-sik came back to Ongsan. But it was also heartbreaking to hear Deok-sun say that he raised Yong-sik to be a warm, wholehearted person by letting him see only the good things in life while she dealt with the dirty things, and then Dong-baek comes along and casts a shadow over Yong-sik's eyes. I sympathized with Deok-sun but only until it is revealed later in the episode that she meddles in some of her son's affairs and we're reminded that while she makes a good point in opposing Yong-sik's relationship with Dong-baek, she also has to let go a little and realize that Yong-sik is a grown richard simmons man who can handle himself. 
• I love Jessica's conversation with her mother. She admits she wants to continue living as Jong-ryeol's wife because she wants attention. If others don't say she's pretty, she doesn't feel pretty. She wants others to see she's living a great life. What a way to live right? But I'm glad this show tackles a growing problem nowadays due to social media. A lot of people think like her and it's sad, but I hope that Jessica's openness will help others who think like her to realize that sometimes, social media pushes us to seek external validation. 
• When you suspect someone is a murderer, instead of going to the police and waiting for them to act on it, you confront that person and tell him you know he killed someone, therefore, placing yourself in danger or alarming the suspect and giving him a chance to run. Only in kdrama, amirite? 

 

We get stars for our guess on who activated the fire alarm and sprinklers, and the form Dong-baek signed... in her sleep lol. 

[bebebisous33]

@lollyminx I agree with you that DS goes too far in meddling in her son's life. Poor Yong Shik, when he realizes that his success to win people over was because his mother was bullying them behind his back. As a result, I perceive DS as hypocrite and rather narrow-minded.

 

By the way, the last victim of Joker 6 years ago said that a man offered her an umbrella... so maybe she was approached by the Joker before. 

 

I am glad that DB slapped her step-sister because she called her mother a gold digger, while she wanted herself to get the money from the insurance and sue her. Her excuse was the this insurance was paid with her father's money.... really ridiculous!! This outlines that she is herself a gold digger and resented her father for remarrying so that she didn't inherit that much from her father. 

[lollyminx]

2 hours ago, bebebisous33 said:

@lollyminx I agree with you that DS goes too far in meddling in her son's life. Poor Yong Shik, when he realizes that his success to win people over was because his mother was bullying them behind his back.

I was deeply disappointed when they revealed what Deok-sun has been doing behind Yong-sik's back because up until that point, I understood where she was coming from. I thought her protectiveness was only because Yong-sik didn't get to meet his father but it was a little off-putting when it's revealed that sometimes she steps in to make his son's life easier. Mothers tend to do that out of love, yes, and its understandable, but for some reason it felt a little weird when it shaped Yong-sik's view of himself and his relationship with other people. 

 

But this is one of the good things in this drama. It does a good job of humanizing characters by portraying them as flawed individuals who can turn from bad to good, good to bad, and it's like that in real life right? In Deok-sun's case, first you root for her because she protects Dong-baek the underdog, then hate her for opposing Yong-sik's relationship with Dong-baek, root for her again when you learn about her life raising Yong-sik and his brothers alone, then dislike her again because she meddles in Yong-sik's life. Dong-baek is a good person who stands up for what's right, but she's timid and oblivious. Hyang-mi's done too many unforgivable things but her life is also sad. Jong-ryeol doesn't know how to get his life together but you have to admire his desire to be in Pil-gu's life. Other characters have thought about killing someone but they obviously aren't capable of doing so.

 

I've found myself going back and forth, liking and disliking then liking again but also disliking so many characters in this series, and I love that it's making me think about other people in real life. You can't really say a person you don't like is entirely bad or unlikable unless you know his or her entire life, or unless he or she is completely a bad person (like the serial killer in the show), and it's important to know/qualify what flaws in other people are forgivable or understandable, and which are not. Except evil people who have gone to the dark side, no one is entirely good or bad, like the yin and yang. 

 

2 hours ago, bebebisous33 said:

I am glad that DB slapped her step-sister because she called her mother a gold digger, while she wanted herself to get the money from the insurance and sue her.

Did they reveal why Dong-baek's mom married the gold digger's father? Not yet, right? I'm asking just in case the Netflix subs weren't accurate. 

[YongZura⁷]

Just finished watching the latest episode... Wow so many interesting scenes, interesting line, interesting perspective....  Well, I love how it makes me want to know more about what is happening currently, what had happened before and what is going to happen in the future.  In the beginning I was always confused when the scenes keep moving from the present, past and future... but now I would like to know more.  

 

Congratulate to those who managed to guess all the right person, the right scenes etc.  You are amazing.

 

 

Credit to the owner

 

[bedifferent]

Ratings 

 

E29/30:  15.2%/18.2%

[bedifferent]

If this latest episode is titled “Mother”, would we have “Father” and “Children” episodes later? 

 

... All roads lead to family, what each of our characters is willing to endure, sacrifice and do for the ones they love.  I can’t wait to find out what drives Joker(s) motive.  HS kills.  Why?

 

[40somethingahjumma]

The most recent episode was a celebration of mothers... especially those who have done it tougher than usual. Recognition of their efforts were definitely in order. I was especially moved by how Ms Jo quietly kept track of DB's life and protected her from the sidelines. She was a brilliant woman in many ways... shrewd, capable, able to juggle so many facets of her life, watch over her daughter unnoticed and scrimped enough to pass on a legacy. Pil-gu got his brains from her I suspect. In another time and place, she could have been a teacher, lawyer or even a business owner. The more I see of this woman, the more admirable she seems to be. That last sequence where we saw her walking through the alley, it doesn't look like she's very well at all. 

 

My hope is that DB will fight to hang on to the money because it is her mother's gift to her. Already her courage has increased yet again. (Seems to be happening incrementally) I don't usually approve of Kdrama slapping but this time I cheered a little bit when DB told the stepdaughter where to go.

 

Ms Kwak, on the other hand, I'm not so sure. I am becoming increasingly uncomfortable with the way she sledgehammers about her need to protect Yong-shik from all the evils/ heartaches of life. She might be overcompensating because she has daddy issues as I've been noting. On some level I don't deny that it's worked for him to have such an attentive mother. He's good-hearted, and brimming with self-confidence thanks to her care. He could have turned out to be a self-absorbed Mummy's Boy like Gyu Tae and he didn't. But eventually the bird must leave the nest and fly on its own especially if he's wanting to build his own nest. It is frustrating and heartbreaking to see our children make mistakes and suffer the consequences but how are they going to build resilience for life if parents shelter them forever. Even with the best of intentions, sheltering can become controlling. That has been the problem with Gyu Tae and his aimlessness. I am less worried about YS because he at least can articulate what he wants and is determined to press on with it. It's Ms Kwak I'm really concerned about as I really liked her in the beginning because she seemed really level headed. On top which she raised 3 boys on her and ran her own business to put food on the table. She worked hard to earn her place in the community. Undoubtedly she believes that all that entitles her to continue trying to steer her son's path and control his environment. My worry is that her continued efforts to prevent YS from making his own decision will diminish her character in my mind. I want to keep liking her.

 

Already we can see that YS is keen to be his own man and take risks. All part of growing up I would've thought. Should she hold him back because she fears for his future? It's not that I root for the OTP to be together that I'm blathering on about this but I genuinely think it's a healthy thing for YS to blossom outside of his mother's influence, to learn from his mistakes. I keep thinking of that line that YS blurted to the baseball father "If you think your kid is precious then other people's kids are precious also". Doesn't DB deserve some happiness? Despite not having much parental guidance, she's no Hyang Mi.

 

I really like what the show is doing with GT. Little by little he's coming to his own even while he whines pitifully. He's becoming less of a loser each week. Now he's even cooperating with the cops in the Joker investigation. So that's what they were doing in Hanbit Academy... secretly playing arcade games. Heh... I thought it was illegal gambling or something along those lines. LOL. 

 

We finally got to meet the mysterious Yeong-shim, the owner of the radish field.  "I learned all this from my dog". Some growers use scarecrows, others have surveillance videos.

 

It looks to me like Heung-shik is covering up for his dad or someone else. I don't think he's our culprit... a bit young and a bit too smug. Ms Jo looked surprised so it's someone she didn't expect. Still it might not be the Joker at all.

 

[htk9207]

9 hours ago, lollyminx said:

When you suspect someone is a murderer, instead of going to the police and waiting for them to act on it, you confront that person and tell him you know he killed someone, therefore, placing yourself in danger or alarming the suspect and giving him a chance to run. Only in kdrama, amirite? 

 

It's true that when you usually suspect someone you report it to the police. But if there is no incriminating evidence pointing to the suspect, even the police would not give you the time of the day. Even now with the CCTV recording, it would still be hard to pin it on HS since the footage only shows a grainy image of a black suited man entering the building. There have been no fingerprints left in the crime scenes whatsoever. Taking into consideration that DB's mom is willing to act as witness, she could not be even taken seriously since they thought she has dementia. So the mom decided that since she's gravely ill she might as well threaten HS to let him know she knows his secret. And to warn him not to mess with DB. I don't agree with her actions but I could understand her sentiments. I wish to see more of her past though. The way this show depicts how protective mothers are of their grown children reminds me of my mom. So it really gets me emotional each time we are shown as to what lengths mothers are willing to go just to protect their own child. 

[lollyminx]

1 hour ago, 40somethingahjumma said:

I want to keep liking her.

This is my worry too. I don't like being disappointed in characters I love. 

 

1 hour ago, 40somethingahjumma said:

Ms Jo looked surprised so it's someone she didn't expect. Still it might not be the Joker at all.

Yes! Her face in the end, she looks totally surprised. I feel like there's something else going on, something that we haven't guessed. 

 

1 hour ago, htk9207 said:

Even now with the CCTV recording, it would still be hard to pin it on HS since the footage only shows a grainy image of a black suited man entering the building. There have been no fingerprints left in the crime scenes whatsoever. Taking into consideration that DB's mom is willing to act as witness, she could not be even taken seriously since they thought she has dementia.

That's true but perhaps I was thinking about how it would be in real life. She did call the police in the phone booth after all, so I was expecting she'd wait for the police to take action. If, for instance, Yong-sik heard about the phone call, he'd investigate for sure as he's the one who's driven to catch the joker. In terms of what she did confronting the joker, I just don't see that happening in real life. To me, it's not logical for someone to do that, so I didn't like that part much. If I were to put myself in her position, I'd think it's safer for my daughter (Dong-baek) if the suspected killer didn't know that someone else knows.

[bedifferent]

@bebebisous33 @lollyminx @40somethingahjumma  this episode was truly about mothering.  We said parenting is an art, doing the best that can be done under different circumstances.  There are different types of parenting but one thing is clear, we can't judge without considering the events that affect these mom's lives.

 

We see the various way of parenting from being quietly supportive (Jeong Suk) to suffocating helicoptering the child (Deok Soon) to outright patronizing (GT's mom) and the consequences of it on the children. 

 

For Deok Soon, her control of YS's life go against her advice for DB in the past of how she should learn to live apart from Pil Gu.  Deok Soon lives for YS.  She makes duck soup when he is sick.  She even gloved up and deboned his crabs and duck for him.  The man is thirty something years old for gods sake.  She works hard to make sure he only experiences the pleasant things in life.  She manipulated and bullied others for her son. By making life "easier" for YS (to ease her guilt of him not having a father), she robbed him authentic relationships.  Also the chance to experience mistakes or learn to cope and recover from failures.   Thank god YS didn't develop a god complex. 

 

Ms Jo on the other hand, should have done what Jong Ryeol needed to do as well with Pil-Gu, apologized for her mistake and be transparent with her feelings to her child.  I think kids are quite perceptive; they want to be treated with respect and kindness.  More important to work at keeping clear channel of communication between parents and children.  Children deserved to share their parents' pain as well as our happiness.  Family members do that for each other.

 

[htk9207]

E

5 hours ago, 40somethingahjumma said:

My worry is that her continued efforts to prevent YS from making his own decision will diminish her character in my mind. I want to keep liking her.

 

I am disappointed as well. But since I know where she's coming from I still like her because she is NOT like NGT's mother. No Gyu Tae's mom is the type of mom often shown in KDrama which I love to hate. 

 

To be honest if it weren't for JR's sudden presence and his condescending words to YS that night, YS's mom was still being nice to Pilgu. She even prepared him pork cutlet to eat. She even told DB to take it slow with YS and only when they are both sure about the relationship to find the time to talk to her. She's mad at DB because she felt very letdown and yet she even try to persuade her former bestie not to leave Ongsan before. 

 

So for her to discover that Pilgu's dad is now frequenting Camellia is a betrayal for her since she was the last to know. And to hear JR talking down not only to DB but to YS as well, for a mother to hear someone using that kind of tone to her son, she only reacted as a mother would; that is to protect her own. Still she waited for DB's mom to take Pilgu home before bursting inside.

 

If only the fire incident didn't happen. But it did and now knowing that even a fire could not stop YS from protecting DB; his mom would now be in a panicked and worried state that his life would be endangered. Her son who she loved more because of her grief of losing her husband. So even if she knew DB's pain, she wouldn't be able to stop herself from lashing at her former bestie. She's only human. Knowing her precious son is willing to risk his life just to protect DB from the killer, she would not be able to calm down as she is consumed with anxiety for her son's sake. At least that's how I look at it from my point of view and also based from some people I've known.  They are usually quiet and mild mannered and yet, when their kids are in trouble, they become fierce tigers ready to protect their own. 

 

Sorry for the long post. This drama really hits me right at the heart. Especially with regards to what moms are capable of, just to protect their loved ones. 

[40somethingahjumma]

I was surprised when Ms Jo confronted HS directly too. Then I wondered if she was going to stab him or clobber him or something, seeing that as she says... she has nothing to lose. But she didn't do anything so I wondered what the point of the entire exercise was. The thought crossed my mind she was trying to provoke him to do something to her in order to "help the cops". I imagine we'll know soon enough with subsequent episodes.

 

HS and his father are suspicious but I'm still not sure if they are both the Joker, or one of them is the Joker and the other the arsonist or they're neither are involved despite behaving oddly. I tend to think that Dearest Dad is the arsonist except that I've never seen him move from that position. As Ms Jo points out, they are well-equipped to do serious damage in the neighbourhood. 

 

@bebebisous33 For Ms Kwak I think it's really about the loss of control and her inability to relinquish that control that she's had over YS' environment his entire life. Like many parents of her cultural milieu she had her own idea of how she wanted him to live his life... it sounded like she had it all mapped out in her head about the sort of woman he would marry and the kind of family he might have with her. She's the sort of woman who has an extraordinary amount of control in her community... a highly respected business leader to boot.. she has her eyes and ears everywhere as she said to Pil-gu.

When she was left widowed, the shaman at the funeral declared her to be unlucky. She didn't take it lying down and took control of the narrative of her "unluckiness" by shaping every facet of her son's life to erase all the so-called bad luck that might be passed on. 

 

I don't imagine she would see any kind of inconsistency with befriending another single mother while rejecting her as a potential daughter in law because in her (Ms Kwak's) eyes, DB is a pitiful creature that one can be friends with but not someone her son should fall in love with and marry. To her DB is an outlier... a harbinger of bad luck... that should be pitied because she will never enjoy any kind of happy normality. It is DB's lot in life and she should accept a kind of "third class" citizenry status without aspiring to anything above her station.

 

When YS returned and immediately fell for DB, Ms Kwak's well-controlled universes took a big hit. DB is not at all what she had hoped as a daughter-in-law plus DB brings with her a pile of baggage... a son out of wedlock... and now an ex who's hovering around hankering to be part of the action. Next thing she knows, her son is putting out fires and she hears that the Joker is back in town. She must feel that she has completely lost control and absolutely hates it.

 

What must be even worse for her is that YS is being stubbornly fixated on DB. To her mind, he's being irrational and not in sync with reality. As his mother, she had it all worked out. After all, she knows best. She's always known what was best and done her best for him.

 

@htk9207 

I would love to dump everything on Jang Ryeol because let's face it, the man has terrible timing and has done a fine job upsetting the applecart. But it isn't all just about him making some truly bad calls and being an insensitive jerk.

 

The reality is that while I would never deny or denigrate Ms Kwak's contribution to YS' life, they're no longer living in Joseon. Some of the old ways will have to give way. Some... not all.

[lollyminx]

2 hours ago, 40somethingahjumma said:

The thought crossed my mind she was trying to provoke him to do something to her in order to "help the cops".

Ooooh this makes sense. Alright, if this is her intention, then I get it. It does relate to "I have nothing to lose," so she's ready to sacrifice herself. I take back what I said about what she did as something... unreasonable. 

5 hours ago, bedifferent said:

Thank god YS didn't develop a god complex. 

Yes, and as @40somethingahjumma noted earlier, part of Deok-sun's parenting shaped Yong-sik's adorable personality so it's a win in some ways. It's just the part where he thinks everyone ends up liking him eventually that got me but if not for Deok-sun, he wouldn't be as warm, bright, confident, and headstrong as he is so there are positives and negatives

[lollyminx]

EPISODE 16

 

Favorite Scenes

• "I'll be a different person starting tomorrow." - Hyang-mi 
• "Even this thing can be reset... why can't I?" - Hyang-mi  It's sad but it's nice to know these were her thoughts that night. It's not the best time for her to go, but at least she left with a... clean slate so to speak. 
• "Don't make me out to be a loser without experience. I'm Hwang Yong-sik." 
• The scene isn't supposed to be funny but I laughed out loud when No Gyu-tae said, "I can't breathe" while he was being dragged in the parking lot. 
• Future governor of Ongsan Hong Ja-yeong coming in to save the day.  
• "Was she always this amazing?" - Gyu-tae   The answer is yes, loser.
• "Love, my richard simmons." - Hong Ja-yeong, future governor of Ongsan
• "Ahjussi, I want you to sleep at our place for three nights." - Pil-gu to Yong-sik 

Thoughts

• It's a good thing Jong-ryeol seemed to have backed off Dong-baek. He told Yong-sik to do a good job (he means in his relationship with Dong-baek) because once he messes up, Jong-ryeol will grab the opportunity to be with her again. This is fine. Jong-ryeol and Yong-sik don't need to get along, although it would be ideal for Pil-gu, but Jong-ryeol giving way to Yong-sik is an improvement. It just sucks that when it comes to Pil-gu, he's so clueless. Telling Pil-gu to live with him is a jerk move, as expected from him.
• The moment Hong Ja-yeong stepped in to save No Gyu-tae made me think there's hope for this couple. I'm all for it as long as Gyu-tae changes. I want him to earn Hong Ja-yeong's trust again but if she doesn't want him anymore, that's fine too. Haha
• Also, I'm curious about what went down between Ja-yeong and Hyang-mi the night she died. She obviously didn't kill her but I'm hoping they cleared the air that night and Ja-yeong forgave Hyang-mi. 
• I'm starting to think the thing with Heung-sik and his dad is that they're just suspicious people lol. After all, Dong-baek's mom wasn't harmed even after confronting Heung-sik. He brings home cats only for his dad to kill them. Heung-sik tells him he hates that they have the same eyes, implying that Dong-baek's mom recognized Heung-sik at OK Aesthetics simply because he has the same eyes as his father, who Heung-sik believes is capable of murder. But I don't think this is true either. I think Heung-sik only said that because he deeply resents his father. 
• This episode ends with Dong-baek saying, "I saw him" and putting this together with the preview, that is, the police continuing the investigation, it seems like the joker is a different person altogether. Maybe someone we've never seen before? Or you know, Dong-baek just means he saw him, his build, what he's wearing, but not his face. I don't know. I'll just wait for your own thoughts about this. 
• Also watching what happens in this episode and what has happened so far since Episode 1, their decision to make it 20 episodes is a good call. No rush and the remaining four episodes are enough for them to wrap things up nicely. 

 

This episode answers the mystery behind the red stain on Gyu-tae's steering wheel and the opening scene in Episode 1 happens in this episode.

[misskym86]

I think heong sik said he hate his eyes because they look like his dad. Maybe shows DB omma mix them up. Its not hs that she saw but HS appa. Same eyes..

 

Aigoo pil gu give consent to yong sik is the most beautiful thing ever

[1ouise]

Did he really grab on to her coattail?  

 

 

 

[Latte_Anyday]

Er--isn't it obvious that the Joker is indeed Heung Shik & his dad?! So why are they still dragging this on?! And finally Yeong Shim has a face LoL! And boy you don't mess with Yong Shik's mom she's a wild boar alright We get more insight into Dong Baek's mom's backstory.. earlier theories posed by some sharp viewers on her saving up an insurance policy for Dong Baek were spot on. 

     Hopefully she gets reunited with Dong Baek soon. So it was Pil Gu's idea that Yong Shik slept over at Dong Baek's!? He's a gentleman albeit had boundary issues early on but he knows not to cross the line. As he said to Dong Baek I'm not trash  Dong Baek truly frustrates me by how gullible she is! She shouldn't have collected the scooter on her own & during the arson incident, why shut the door behind her?! Ugh.

     That eliminates Jong Ryeol, Mr. Noh, Jessica from Hyang Mi's murder. Was it really Heung Shik's dad though!? No wonder Mr. Noh didn't want the academy looked into, it was a cover for an illegal gambling den. Anyone noticed that one Ongsan ahjumma who had a deathly pale face LoL?! She looked like some scary kabuki actor

 

Lawyer Hong is just bad@$$ although I hope she wasn't involved with Hyang Mi's case 'cause that's disappointing. Why did you drift your car then? Mr. Noh acted like she was his mom rather than spouse whenever she comes to defend him!

[lollyminx]

1 hour ago, 1ouise said:

Did he really grab on to her coattail?  

Too cute. 

[chickfactor]

3 hours ago, lollyminx said:

It's a good thing Jong-ryeol seemed to have backed off Dong-baek. He told Yong-sik to do a good job (he means in his relationship with Dong-baek) because once he messes up, Jong-ryeol will grab the opportunity to be with her again. This is fine. Jong-ryeol and Yong-sik don't need to get along, although it would be ideal for Pil-gu, but Jong-ryeol giving way to Yong-sik is an improvement. It just sucks that when it comes to Pil-gu, he's so clueless. Telling Pil-gu to live with him is a jerk move, as expected from him.

 

 

 

 

DB seems to have moved on, so JR can try all he wants, it doesn't mean anything. She's not an object these two men can toss back and forth to each other. If DB and YS doesn't work out, it doesn't mean she now belongs to JR, so he can shove it.

 

More sweet moments from DB and YS. LOVE.

 

JR's jerk move to PG was really not cool and burdened poor adorable PG some more. But it did have the effect of PG basically pushing YS towards his mother, so... sorry, JR. JR really just doesn't understand the strong bond that DB and PG have with each other. Such a tone-deaf move.

 

I loved that DB's reaction to the knowledge that HM is dead was not - it's my fault, I'm such bad luck for everyone around me - that would be old DB, but, I'm gonna kill this guy - New DB.

 

Really extra heartbreaking that HM's last thought on earth was to become determined to turn over a new leaf. *sigh* And how that determination to do the right thing is what ended up getting her killed.

 

 Ja-Yeong continues to rock.

[Dumdoc]

I cheered and got excited when Dongbaek said she’d find and beat the richard simmons out of Joker!!!! Will we finally get to see her be the dragon she’s supposed to be?!! Can’t wait!!! I’m tired of her being a damsel in distress! I can’t wait to see the whole town take Joker down!!!
 

It was good to see Hyangmi again as well. I hope she gets to live her “Part 2” as the beloved daughter of good and kind parents like Dongbaek and Yongshik!