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[ MAINLAND CHINESE DRAMA 2019 ] The Untamed 陈情令

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Yeah I think the drama made WWX into too much of a Gary Stu. And a bit too preachy at times. Novel WWX was a true anti-hero and more complex and unique. I honestly don’t think I would like drama WWX as much except for the actor being so charismatic. Is that another censorship thing? That the main character can’t be too grey and doing morally wrong stuff?

 

As for the ending I don’t mind it but not sure why they had to do that separation/open to interpretation bit. They could’ve just had the 2 “buddies” travel together and going on adventures to get past the censorship. What’s gay about that? Because that’s basically what happens in the novel minus all the makeout/married life aspect. It’s the 2 of them splitting their time between going on adventures and life at Gusu.

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@lizax1 It's not about censorship but I think the change is to make it more coherent. Because if WWX is really responsible for Jin Ling's parents death then the relationship between them (and also with Jiang Chen) can never be mended. In the novel they just kinda forget and be casual to each other again but it should have been very unlikely. Jin Guang Yao has to die anyway so just blame him instead.

 

I also felt sorry for Jiang Chen bc now everyone knows WWX gave him the core but no one would know he lost it trying to save WWX.

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I am a regular reader of Chinese BL novels and have read several of Mo Xiang Tong Xiu's novels including this one and also Tian Guan Si Fu (rumored to be made into drama soon). Her novels follow a typical style of multiple flashbacks, which is distracting sometimes, so I love it when The Untamed decided to go for a more linear timeline. Although I really love her stories, I almost couldn't go back to read them the second time, cuz they are so heartbreaking. Each and every named character is a tragedy. From heroes to villains, no one seems to be blessed with luck. So when the villains are defeated, the readers don't feel any sense of satisfaction, just sadness. Many characters you love end up dead or in misery, and if they get an okay ending they carry with them massive wounds and scars. Only the main cp get a happy ending, but after all the unbearable pain and losses in their life, the final HE tastes bitter like dark chocolate.

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2 hours ago, lizax1 said:

Yeah I think the drama made WWX into too much of a Gary Stu. And a bit too preachy at times. Novel WWX was a true anti-hero and more complex and unique. I honestly don’t think I would like drama WWX as much except for the actor being so charismatic. Is that another censorship thing? That the main character can’t be too grey and doing morally wrong stuff?

I know everyone thinks it’s a myth but there really is a loooong list of rules from SARFT for television dramas. Here are some “taboos” that pertains to CQL:

 

- Sets a negative character as a main character, or exaggerates the positive sides of a reactionary, backwards, evil, or illegal [acting] person, society, or organization.

 

- Promotes spirits, reincarnation, witchcraft and other feudal superstitious thinking

 

- Blurs the value judgement between truth and falsehood, good and evil, beauty and ugliness, or confuses the basic boundaries between justice and injustice

 

- Expresses or displays abnormal sexual relations or sexual behavior, such as incest, homosexuality, perversion, sexual assault, sexual abuse, and sexual violence.

 

Online dramas will have the same restrictions, and staff censors will supervise online content around the clock

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21 hours ago, enigmatic_zephy said:

to be fair to him, WX is responsible for killing his dad and mom :)

 

Wei Wuxian was doing what he thought was the right thing to do and inadvertently provoked the Wen clan. The Wen clan we’re going to attack sooner or later since they had already attacked Cloud Recesses and attempted to burn it to the ground. 

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hi guys!

So i was watching the subbed episode 43 where LZ's brother tells WX about their mother's story and I have a question: what is the story about their mother? she didn't like their father? he forced her to marriage? they were abandoned? I really didn't get the importance of telling that story other than to explain why LZ has the whip scars on his back first...

do enlighten me!

:grin:

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1 hour ago, PaulaL said:

hi guys!

So i was watching the subbed episode 43 where LZ's brother tells WX about their mother's story and I have a question: what is the story about their mother? she didn't like their father? he forced her to marriage? they were abandoned? I really didn't get the importance of telling that story other than to explain why LZ has the whip scars on his back first...

do enlighten me!

:grin:

Their mother killed someone so their father locked her to protect her, just like LZ said to LXC that he want to bring WY back to gusu and hide him there (to protect him like his mother)

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15 hours ago, PaulaL said:

hi guys!

So i was watching the subbed episode 43 where LZ's brother tells WX about their mother's story and I have a question: what is the story about their mother? she didn't like their father? he forced her to marriage? they were abandoned? I really didn't get the importance of telling that story other than to explain why LZ has the whip scars on his back first...

do enlighten me!

:grin:

 Their mother killed one of their fathers mentors, and also didn’t love their father. He locked her up to protect her and locked himself up in another room in atonement (so he must have visited her occasionally, otherwise the brothers wouldn’t be born). Since their parents were busy getting locked up, the brothers were raised by their uncle and would be allowed to visit their mother once a month. Until one day Lan Zhan was told their mother had passed away but he still came back month after month because he didn’t understand the concept of death.

 

Lan Zhan was doing what he thought was the right thing (protecting Wei Wuxian) and standing by his beliefs so he was punished with the whipping. He even asks his uncle “What is good and evil? What is black and white ?” 

 

Elder brother is hinting that Lan Zhan has deeper feelings towards Wei Wuxian than he let’s on. He was willing to protect Wei Wuxian during the battle 16 years ago even though he knew he would be severely punished for it. I think it went against one of the Lan family’s 3000 family rules. Probably something  about not associating with evil people.

 

The donghua mentions that the original patriarch of the Lan family was a monk, so that’s the reason they have 3000 family rules. 

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thank you @frostflower14 and @Sisca_TVXQ !!!!

Now I get the importance of the mother story! And, yes, I could tell LXC was telling WX that LZ really cared for him in a special way, I think he said he told him WX was his soulmate. I found that very sweet and beautiful! :blush:

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Thoughts on Jiang Cheng (Spoiler ahead):

 

Capture.png

 

The Untamed ended and based on what I expressed in my earlier post, I am happy with the ending...However, there is this one unresolved business that keeping coming up in my mind...instead of business...I can simply say a person...

 

Before I started this drama, I always feel conflicted on this character...Is he weak? Yes and No, even though he never live up to his father expectation and always under WWX's shadow (Come on! This is unfair, no one can outshine WWX's personality lol) He is not useless and he did build up Yunmeng Jiang Sect again. Is he wrong? He have every right to blame and hate WWX and he knows it is not WWX's intention but all those tragedies of his life is linked to WWX directly or indirectly. Is he mean and disliking? Yes and no, 99% of the time the word coming out of his mouth is mean and harsh but 95% of the time, he doesn't really mean what he is say... I can't decide if I like this character or dislike this character but he had a very conflicted place in my mind....

 

Until this drama...or more accurately, the last few episodes in this drama. Jiang Cheng...Jiang Cheng...I don't even know where to begin with you but I will have to start with his mother's personality. He inherited 100% of his mother's personality. Putting up a mean and harsh front to cover up all his actual feeling and emotion. Similar to how his mother's personality created the barriers in her marriage to the man that she love and love her back, it is almost the same situation with Jiang Cheng and WWX in which they both care and love each other like brothers but because of all that happened and mainly Jiang Cheng's personality, they can't reconcile as brothers anymore. 

 

Jiang Cheng had become my third favorite character in his novel. I have a lot of favorites but if I have to rank them, JC will be third after WWX and LWJ.  Why? While WWX is perceived as an antihero who did what he consider right and LWX who is perceived as a righteous deity, JC main priority is always his family and his sect. He doesn't have freedom, or more accurately, his personality and responsibility doesn't allow him to have a choice to stand by WWX or do what is 'right'. He watched as WWX walked further and further away from the 'normal' path and although he understand WWX's personality and doing, he don't agree because he knows the consequences. If he had to chose between WWX or his family/sect, he chose the latter but that doesn't mean he didn't struggle with his decision, he tried to convince WWX. Sometime I felt JC is more sensitive and rational than he appears because he know and warn WWX of his actions. He see that his sister like Jin Zixuan unlike WWX who always think his sister can find someone better. While WWX and LWX is the gem we all admire, I felt JC is more relate-able in terms of reality...

 

I love their conversation in the temple, JC said a bunch of stuff... Should I be grateful to you? You are always the one shining? You own us so much? My parent, my sister, etc blah blah blah You said you will never betray us? blah blah blah Why shouldn't I hate you? blah blah blah To me, JC said a bunch of stuff under anger but what break my heart and what truly matters the most is when he asked..."Why you didn't tell me?... You promise to stay by my side forever and never betray us...you said it..." He repeated it twice. At the end of the day, JC want to bring himself to hate WWX, he needs an outlet for his angry but at the bottom of his heart, the one thing he care about the most and was hurt the most is that WWX abandon him. He thought WWX will always be there for him but he is left alone to face everything. When WWX wipe his tear and ask him to forget but know he won't, JC stared at WWX like a lost puppy, looking up to his older brother for guidance. No matter how much he pretend to be mean and tough, I see a sensitive and lost man who desperately want to go back to the past where he have his family and his brother who he can bicker with and also walk side by side together. Yet, he can't go back to the past and his path ahead is lonely and sad because he can't let go of that beautiful past...

 

Does he hate WWX? No because if he does, he won't sacrifice his life to distract the soldiers from capturing WWX, planning to die from it when he said he blame WWX for his parent's death. No, because he didn't blame WWX for losing his golden core or even plan to tell him. No because when his sister die and he blamed WWX, he still didn't let his sword touch WWX. No because for 16 years, he is searching for him, saying he plan to find him and kill him, but kept his flute by his side with him for 16 years...

 

At the end, they know each other are well and have their own path to continue on... Maybe in many years to come, they will meet again and talk and see each other once in awhile but they can never return to their youthful years...or the brothers they once was...

 

PS: To lighten up the mood, I saw someone comment in Weibo that the drama started off with WWX's first word as "Lan Zhan"...realizing that everyone wanted him dead except for Lan Zhan... and the drama ended with LWJ calling out "Wei Ying", expressing that he will always be by his side. Awwwww...that is so meaningful and sweet (Sorry, Jiang Cheng, I didn't mean to rub it in your face lol)

 

 

 

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16 hours ago, frostflower14 said:

 

Wei Wuxian was doing what he thought was the right thing to do and inadvertently provoked the Wen clan. The Wen clan we’re going to attack sooner or later since they had already attacked Cloud Recesses and attempted to burn it to the ground. 

Still he is responsible for killing his parents..

look history is full of collateral damage.. nothing can justify anything.. 

 

ultimately, he was confident of his control over WY which he lost...and that can't be denied

could it be helped.. i don't know.. after all he is also human and there is just so much one can take..

but does it mean he is not at fault from JL's perspective.. no!

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Has anyone watched the animated series of Mo Dao Zu Su? It’s based on the same source material as The Untamed.

 

Its much more closer to the novel as well as much more violent and gruesome . It’s only up to 19 (15 episodes season 1+ 4 episodes season 2). Season 1 covers Wei Wuxian’s death, resurrection in the body of Mo Xuanyu and past life. Mo Xuanyu is supposed to look totally different to Wei Wuxian but Lan Zhan recognises him by the song he plays.

 

Season 2 (so far) covers Wei Wuxian and Lan Zhan’s journey together to collect some demonic body parts. In the book it’s not a sword spirit they are relying on to find its owner but a demonic arm who is trying to gather the rest of its body parts and get vengeance for its death. I guess possessed body parts didn’t make the cut for the Chinese  censorship  board, so was change to a sword spirit instead.

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On 8/13/2019 at 11:57 PM, NataliaMedella said:

No, he’s not. Wen clan already attacked other clans and would come for Yumeng and Jin. With the Xuanu event or not, they would attack Yumeng. Do you really think they would send an army to Yumeng and make it a Wen base just because WX? They decided to do that before they took the boys and their swords, they took them as hostages. 

By that logic you can argue that everyone has to die one day so doesn't matter who kills whom

 

Ultimately, WY became the reason or gave them the reason to do this.. otherwise who knows how difficult or how much more time it would have taken Wens to do what they did..

 

Nie clan wasn't subdued by Wens by then.. gusu was targeted but no major casualties in terms of main family..but lotus pier was annihilated

 

And irrespective of anything.. ultimately WWX became the device.. but JYL and JC are still fine.. they don't blame him, still he is their brother.. the only thing JC is hurt about is being left behind all alone.. WX still has LZ and a lot of other new aspects of life.. what does JC have?

 

And i don't know why people usually completely overlook the deep love JC has for WX.. the boy truly truly loved and cared for WX as his brother.. only to be shunned.. the whole story is full of multiple snippets where it is clearly laid out that WX is the flamboyant one and JC has to keep cleaning up his mess..

 

let's just say.. MDZX is truly very sad for each individual

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59 minutes ago, frostflower14 said:

Has anyone watched the animated series of Mo Dao Zu Su? It’s based on the same source material as The Untamed.

 

Its much more closer to the novel as well as much more violent and gruesome . It’s only up to 19 (15 episodes season 1+ 4 episodes season 2). Season 1 covers Wei Wuxian’s death, resurrection in the body of Mo Xuanyu and past life. Mo Xuanyu is supposed to look totally different to Wei Wuxian but Lan Zhan recognises him by the song he plays.

 

Season 2 (so far) covers Wei Wuxian and Lan Zhan’s journey together to collect some demonic body parts. In the book it’s not a sword spirit they are relying on to find its owner but a demonic arm who is trying to gather the rest of its body parts and get vengeance for its death. I guess possessed body parts didn’t make the cut for the Chinese  censorship  board, so was change to a sword spirit instead.

 

So does the censorship not applied to animations? I would thought so since it’s also on TV. I saw a few eng subs clips of the animation in YouTube but I wouldn’t want to watch it if it’s not being eng subs. I used to watched animations but all those flashes for movements, swords fight, over the top animations are not working out for my eyes anymore. LOL. I don’t mind watching  a few short clips. 

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56 minutes ago, A1mm3 said:

So does the censorship not applied to animations? I would thought so since it’s also on TV. I saw a few eng subs clips of the animation in YouTube but I wouldn’t want to watch it if it’s not being eng subs. I used to watched animations but all those flashes for movements, swords fight, over the top animations are not working out for my eyes anymore. LOL. I don’t mind watching  a few short clips. 

 

I think the censorship is much stricter on live action productions. As far as I could tell superstitious subjects like ghosts and demons are banned. So is reincarnation, so I guess Wei Wuxian getting summoned by Mo Xuanyu and taking over his body doesn’t count as reincarnation?

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2 hours ago, A1mm3 said:

So does the censorship not applied to animations? I would thought so since it’s also on TV. I saw a few eng subs clips of the animation in YouTube but I wouldn’t want to watch it if it’s not being eng subs. I used to watched animations but all those flashes for movements, swords fight, over the top animations are not working out for my eyes anymore. LOL. I don’t mind watching  a few short clips. 

animations also face censorship but there is no animation that can have as big of an influence on the Chinese youth like dramas. SARFT always end up writing more censorship laws whenever a drama becomes too popular and they're always on drama productions like watch dogs

Scarlet Heart -> bans time travel on TV drama

Go Princess Go -> bans time travel on web dramas

Addicted -> bans homosexuality

Story of Yanxi Palace - bans displaying excessive wealth and too much scheming lol

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17 hours ago, PaulaL said:

hi guys!

So i was watching the subbed episode 43 where LZ's brother tells WX about their mother's story and I have a question: what is the story about their mother? she didn't like their father? he forced her to marriage? they were abandoned? I really didn't get the importance of telling that story other than to explain why LZ has the whip scars on his back first...

do enlighten me!

:grin:

 

Just to add on to the other prev replies that that story of his Mother also gave a sneak peek to LZ’s character 

 

- his mum never asked him about his studies but loved to tease him. LZ would never say anything to the teasing but always look forward to being with her 

kinda how WY teases him and LZ still cares for him :D

 

- at first LZ still went every month to wait cos he was too young to understand his mum was no longer around but later even after he understood that his mum was gone for good, LZ still went back and waited for her.  Rather like how he waited for WY all those years. Fortunately for LZ, this time WY did come back :)

 

- also can imagine LZ is pretty much like his dad in defying all to protect the one he loves  

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1 hour ago, frostflower14 said:

 

I think the censorship is much stricter on live action productions. As far as I could tell superstitious subjects like ghosts and demons are banned. So is reincarnation, so I guess Wei Wuxian getting summoned by Mo Xuanyu and taking over his body doesn’t count as reincarnation?

 

It was not reincarnation, Mo Xuanyu did a ritual giving up his body to evil spirit (Yiling patriarch ie WWX) in return for WWX carrying out vengeance on those who wronged Mo xuanyu. That’s why he had 4 wounds on his arm, each representing a person who wronged mo xuanyu. After he was avenged on that person the corresponding wound disappears from arm

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4 hours ago, A1mm3 said:

So does the censorship not applied to animations? I would thought so since it’s also on TV. I saw a few eng subs clips of the animation in YouTube but I wouldn’t want to watch it if it’s not being eng subs. I used to watched animations but all those flashes for movements, swords fight, over the top animations are not working out for my eyes anymore. LOL. I don’t mind watching  a few short clips. 

it applies.. season 1 is lot more tamer than untamed..

smut stuff is best in the novel only and audio book :P

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7 hours ago, frostflower14 said:

 

I think the censorship is much stricter on live action productions. As far as I could tell superstitious subjects like ghosts and demons are banned. So is reincarnation, so I guess Wei Wuxian getting summoned by Mo Xuanyu and taking over his body doesn’t count as reincarnation?

I don't know about animation censorship but in the drama it's not reincarnation. They evaded censorship by having Mo sacrifice himself to save WWX. WWX doesn't take Mo's body. He just assumes Mo's identity by putting on his mask. Once he takes off his mask all of his "old friends" recognize him.

 

6 hours ago, Addicted2 said:

As far as I know, it is not true the JC lost his core while trying to save WWX.  I am not sure about the novel as I have not come to that part yet but in the drama, JC lost his core because he was stupid and irrational, going back to the house and got caught there.  Because of his stupidity, WWX promised his sister to bring him back safely and took the risk to go back to their house.  He was lucky that he met Wen Ning there and he helped him rescue JC.  Since having a golden core to JC is a big deal, WWX ended up giving up his own golden core to him.  He even warned him to be careful in the future as no one would be able to help in 'get back' his core again.

Both in the book and in the drama, JC saw that the Wen solders were approaching WWX, so he created a fuss to lead them away, resulting in him getting caught and taken back to his old house (where Wen Zhao was staying after eliminating his family). So yes he did lose his core trying to save WWX.

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