[Mainland Chinese Web Drama 2020] Three Lives Three Worlds The Pillow Book 三生三世枕上书

[MayanEcho]

4 hours ago, Wuzetian said:

Good day everyone.  

 

I've just finished the mortal arc. The was this part where Cheng Yu gave Feng Jiu a silver bracelet when she visited her during imprisonment for eloping with Qing Ti. 

 

What was the significance of the bracelet? Because the bracelet was vibrating on her wrist when they were facing the enemies (especially the demon armies) in the Emperor's Tomb. 

 

It was supposed to help ease the pain for FJ if Song Xuan Ren decides that she'll be executed, which would be through strangulation, beheading, or slow slicing during Ancient Chinese time period. Since Cheng Yu mentioned the bracelet is for pain, execution method at the kingdom of Chengyu is most likely the last one rather than the first two.

 

By theory, since nothing else was mentioned about the bracelet, it could detect the presence of demons, which was why it was vibrating, and helped FJ recognise that the long knife held by Prince Ying is demonic.

 

The other would be it was vibrating as it protects the wearer from pain - FJ was stabbed to the heart, but she could still fight, nor did she feel physical pain from backfire as she eventually used magic against Prince Ying.

[blue_fleurs]

Just finished this drama!  Forgive my super long post as I'm going through the phase immediately after finishing an incredible drama and feel the need to express my thoughts over soompi.  

 

I remember being really excited about this Pillow Book drama after finishing TMOPB but skeptical of the fact that it required viewers to "erase" the storyline of FJ and DH in TMOPB... they really made an impact!  In a way, super glad that this came a few years after so its impression was a clean slate. 

 

Thanks to all the posters on this forum... I went back to read about 100 pages around the 300s when people started discussing the ending - it helped clarify things for me and added new insights.  

 

Some high-level thoughts (all over the place and in no order!):

• As a viewer who had no idea that this drama stayed true to the book and had to cut 4 episodes: I definitely had the impression that the editing was choppy towards the final (probably 2-3 episodes?) it was noticeably bad because you would see FJ/DH scenes then immediately Demon scene and it was quite distracting.  It all makes sense now, but I'm in agreement that the editing jeopardized a big part of the story which, at times, confused me but it was moving so fast I just went along with it of course instead of questioning it.
• Mortal arc: seems like an unpopular opinion but I quite liked the mortal arc.  Song Xuanren had good chemistry with Xiaojiu and it was really sweet - though he was a bit disappointing in that he fell prey to the beauty-makes-you-neglect-royal-duties stereotypical downfall of a ruler - but it was sweet and their separation scene where she bowed made me pretty sad.  Interestingly this scene felt akin to the scene when DH gives FJ the ring, she walks away, and he spits out blood.
• Most Heartbreaking Scene: Indeed, it would be that scene DH spits out blood as FJ walks away!  A close tie would be the I love you/dying in each other's arms final scene.  I think the former is more hurtful... because you just feel the prolonged misunderstanding like it was fire burning.  What was mildly comforting here was when FJ said to DH something like I hope you two are both doing well together.  And he had this surprised look like what are you talking about?  I wish they had sort it out right there and then, but that'd be too realistic lol.  Instead he went on to say you're the most important etc.  It's comforting because DH should know that the reason she left for so long was because of a misunderstanding (ugh) and not because she stopped loving him.  I can live with that, but can't live with the thought of him thinking she doesn't love him and has abandoned him for good.
• Misunderstandings: this must be a theme in ELOD (or this franchise in general haha) - an earlier poster said something that made total sense to me - DH's low EQ makes his logic a bit skewed.  It's evidenced by his rationale re: the Pimpon Fruit.  He never realized the Ji Heng was the root of FJ's insecurities and if he did, he didn't know how to alleviate her concerns/prevent further misunderstandings leading to their separation - sigh.
• I loved how when Zhe Yan gave her two pills, she immediately with no hesitation took the nourishing pill.  Makes me think she knew in her heart she would love him forever despite her current feelings at the time.  Hope it was the same in the book.
• Character analysis: this occurred two times for me and I appreciated it very much.  First: near the end when 4th uncle and Zhe Yan was talking to Lian Song about FJ and her being more cold hearted than Bai Qian and can/will sever ties as need be.  Second: when we could hear DH's inner thoughts as he played the harp to FJ dancing.  I enjoy hearing his thoughts about his love for her, since he's usually pretty loud when playing with her but silent when it comes to this serious feelings.
• DH is an awesome partner and it shows through his little gestures.  I'm going to commend the Director of this drama because I think he put thought into gestures as opposed to it being from the book/the author.  In particular the scene (I think after exiting Aranya's dream) where they are lying in bed chatting/snoozing and suddenly Ji Heng knocks on the door, and FJ looks startled, DH's quick movement to put the blanket cover over FJ slightly more than it was.  Little things.
• Intensity of relationship: some feedback in earlier pages was that compared to Qian Qian and Ye Hua's relationship, DH and FJ lacked the intensity.  To some extent I agree but this could have easily been fixed with prolonged episodes of fleshing out the separation/post wedding failure.  (Of course we know the issue was they had to cut episodes, meaning no scenes depicting DH's extended search, heart-wrenching misery at night, Destiny-Stone-investigations and willingness to defy destiny, ETC).  Also, if they found a way for the Mortal Arc to somehow mesh with the other parts, it would have added to this "intensity" I think... think: Bai Qian's return from mortal realm, she doesn't have her baby in her memory anymore, she's hurt to the point where she returned so depressed, etc).  I felt that DJ didn't have this same "depression" - at least DH had a few "omg what is this pain I'm feeling in the heart" moments when they returned from the mortal realm.  We could view the Mortal Arc and everythign else almost as isolated events, because FJ didn't seem to react to it in a way I expected her to.  Maybe on a re-watch I can pick up the nuances.
• Favorite scene: cave scene when he asks her why do you keep mentioning people who are not important?  will giving you my heart work?  *puts her hand on his heart* - either the director is amazing or the author is truly romantic!
• Finally, I loved the final scene because she was wearing purple - it's their color!!  Purple and silver.  And the bonus boat scene she was clearly wearing the ring.  Such bliss.

Time for questions... again very sporadic!  Appreciate anyone's insights to any but definitely not needed!!  Just getting my thoughts out and I may pick up answers on a rewatch.

• How could DH not tell that his little pet fox is a goddess/immortal - he was easily able to tell she was hiding as a handkerchief.
• DH never intended to marry Ji Heng in the beginning right?  I totally thought he agreed to bring her to the Sky Kingdom for marriage so she could escape via some alternative route to live with Minsu forever.  Hopefully this is it because the thought of him agreeing to marry someone without love bothers me about his character a bit.
• Does DH ever get his memories back from the Mortal Arc, in the drama or book?  Again, it's such a waste if he didn't.  I feel like it would help add to his love for FJ.
• Someone said that Miao Luo made an observation that behind the fuling flowers is someone hiding (that DH loves) - was this in the drama?  I totally missed it.
• When DH drops FJ in Fanyin Valley, did he intend to rescue her?  But for his schedule lecture session would he have gone back for her?
• When she realizes that he did not in fact turn into a handkerchief for her and she found him playing Go with Lian Song, he asked her, "have we met before?" what was he trying to find out?...  Well yes he's seen her many times at the Sky Kingdom for BQ/YH's wedding, unless at that time he was suspicious of her pet fox identity?
• Is it agreeable that DH already like FJ before entering the Dream of Aranya?  They had a few flirty scenes while training for the competition. 
• Not a question but I find it a BIT strange that FJ can act all feisty to DH starting from the scenes in Fanyin Valley - she never had this courage before?  I justify this by saying FJ has given up loving him so she is now free to act her true self in front of him (which is the flamboyant chic that she is).
• At Bihai Cangling, did FJ say our "home" or our "family"?  Not sure if the eng subtitles was accurate.
• How much time passed after FJ left to the Mortal Realm after the non-wedding and when she eventually returned?  I've read (on this forum) 200 years - to give me a better idea of how much "time" that is, is that the same amount of time she left the palace as the pet fox and Bai Qian's wedding?  Hopefully it wasn't too long and again, really bitter that we didn't get to see more scenes emphasizing the heartbreak in this period of time.
• Did literally no one updated FJ and her family and everyone else why DH was away and missed the wedding?  I find it hard to believe that DH missed the wedding - the preceding scenes he kept reminding FJ that they'll live forever together after the wedding, it's obviously in the forefront of his mind.  So why on earth did he go to see Ji Heng?  Even if he must bring her to the Demon lands, go to the wedding first?  Girl can wait a day by herself.  I'm disappointed in DH's judgment here.  Was this fleshed out in the book?  Also find it hard to believe no one updated the crew about his whereabouts - I hope FJ's family eventually understood that it was a misunderstanding and reverts back to respecting him as emperor and son in law.
• I read someone's post about how the drama depicted the Dream of Aranya a bit differently; DH and FJ knew about each other's real identities earlier on (than in the book) and left the dream with memories (of what happened in the dream) in tact.  But what was the book's method of fixing FJ's memory...?  Just curious - I definitely prefer the drama's approach.  Also preferred the drama's way of having DH already know that Aranya is FJ (in the masquerade scene watching stars) where she goes on a monologue about sad love.  I interpreted that scene as DH learning about FJ (even if she didn't have her FJ memories at the time) and his impact on her emotionally through their time together.  So, if the book had DH thinking the person in front of him is Aranya during this scene, it wouldn't have allowed for DH to learn about FJ's feelings, which I felt strengthened his feelings for FJ.

 

That's it!!  Hoping for even greater success for this drama in 2021 ...  Hopefully Netflix will pick up Eternal Love of Dream as it did for TMOPB/Eternal Love, which brought about another wave of viewers and fans I think for TMOPB... this level of popularity and further international recognition is something ELOD (plus cast & crew) deserve!! 

 

 

[Megan]

45 minutes ago, blue_fleurs said:

Mortal arc: seems like an unpopular opinion but I quite liked the mortal arc.  Song Xuanren had good chemistry with Xiaojiu and it was really sweet

Same! I love Song Xuanren and really wish there were more fics about him or recollections!!!

 

47 minutes ago, blue_fleurs said:

Most Heartbreaking Scene

For me it would be Aranya dying.

 

47 minutes ago, blue_fleurs said:

him thinking she doesn't love him and has abandoned him for good

He might have thought that in the book after what Zhe Yan said.

 

48 minutes ago, blue_fleurs said:

loved how when Zhe Yan gave her two pills, she immediately with no hesitation took the nourishing pill.  Makes me think she knew in her heart she would love him forever despite her current feelings at the time.

I was hoping more along the lines that she wouldn’t kill an innocent child

 

50 minutes ago, blue_fleurs said:

DH never intended to marry Ji Heng in the beginning right?  I totally thought he agreed to bring her to the Sky Kingdom for marriage so she could escape via some alternative route to live with Minsu forever.  Hopefully this is it because the thought of him agreeing to marry someone without love bothers me about his character a bit.

Correct

 

51 minutes ago, blue_fleurs said:

Someone said that Miao Luo made an observation that behind the fuling flowers is someone hiding (that DH loves) - was this in the drama?  I totally missed it.

Yes it was there when Dong Hua visited her prison.

 

52 minutes ago, blue_fleurs said:

When she realizes that he did not in fact turn into a handkerchief for her and she found him playing Go with Lian Song, he asked her, "have we met before?" what was he trying to find out?...  Well yes he's seen her many times at the Sky Kingdom for BQ/YH's wedding, unless at that time he was suspicious of her pet fox identity?

When she first saw him in the demon realm I believe

 

52 minutes ago, blue_fleurs said:

Is it agreeable that DH already like FJ before entering the Dream of Aranya?  They had a few flirty scenes while training for the competition.

Obviously 

 

53 minutes ago, blue_fleurs said:

At Bihai Cangling, did FJ say our "home" or our "family"?  Not sure if the eng subtitles was accurate.

家 means both home and family

[MayanEcho]

Hello @blue_fleurs, glad to hear you enjoyed watching the drama, and took the time to go over the thread.  Going through your questions:

 

23 hours ago, blue_fleurs said:

How could DH not tell that his little pet fox is a goddess/immortal - he was easily able to tell she was hiding as a handkerchief.

 

FJ's magic and speech were taken along with her nine-tails and fur when she made that very bad trade for Nie Chuyin's half of his cultivation as she attempted to help DH at the evil lotus realm. Though her fairy aura was strong, she looked liked an ordinary fairy fox.

 

In contrast to when she was a handkerchief, who was her using her own magic to disguise herself, DH's level of cultivation and magic arts would still let him see her as he is. If you noticed at Ep26, as they approach Ali, he was peering at the table as he talks to Lian Song. 

 

23 hours ago, blue_fleurs said:

DH never intended to marry Ji Heng in the beginning right?  I totally thought he agreed to bring her to the Sky Kingdom for marriage so she could escape via some alternative route to live with Minsu forever.  Hopefully this is it because the thought of him agreeing to marry someone without love bothers me about his character a bit.

 

No, the marriage was merely a ruse to help her escape with Minsu, also as Meng Hao her father requested for his assistance since he couldn't take care of his daughter anymore (Ep5). JH has also told DH she would never marry anyone but Minsu. 

 

23 hours ago, blue_fleurs said:

Does DH ever get his memories back from the Mortal Arc, in the drama or book?  Again, it's such a waste if he didn't.  I feel like it would help add to his love for FJ.

 

In the drama POV, no, immortals were not supposed to. DH however was having flashback dreams of his mortal trial. That is the reason he finally asked to read his mortal book of fate (Ep23), and for him to observe later on that it doesn't match what he remembers.

 

Book POV, DH did not have a mortal trial. It was a story to hide that DH was in deep sleep. Tai Chen gave the excuse that DH is in seclusion while he was sleeping, to prevent other immortals making mischief during his absence, Miao Luo in particular.

 

23 hours ago, blue_fleurs said:

Someone said that Miao Luo made an observation that behind the fuling flowers is someone hiding (that DH loves) - was this in the drama?  I totally missed it.

 

Little red fox  (Ep31). DH confirms it later in his inner thoughts at Ep53 while playing the kunghou as FJ dances.

 

23 hours ago, blue_fleurs said:

When DH drops FJ in Fanyin Valley, did he intend to rescue her?  But for his schedule lecture session would he have gone back for her?

 

He did, but waited for the winter solstice when Fanyin Valley would be open for two months and when he is expected to lecture the Biyiniaos. This lecture is also not entirely true, but a cover while DH cleanses the toxin leaks from the Miaoyi Huiming realm.

 

23 hours ago, blue_fleurs said:

When she realizes that he did not in fact turn into a handkerchief for her and she found him playing Go with Lian Song, he asked her, "have we met before?" what was he trying to find out?...  Well yes he's seen her many times at the Sky Kingdom for BQ/YH's wedding, unless at that time he was suspicious of her pet fox identity?

 

Book POV, the space folding magic forced FJ to transform to her original fox form. Drama POV she has partially transformed. In both instances, DH recognised the little red fox he saved at Mt Qinyao against the demonic tiger.

 

23 hours ago, blue_fleurs said:

Is it agreeable that DH already like FJ before entering the Dream of Aranya?  They had a few flirty scenes while training for the competition.

 

DH already liked her at Jiuchongtian.  Book and drama POV, he did not object to Lian Song's ribbing that if he marries FJ, he will call Ye Hua uncle. Furthermore, book POV, as he waits for winter solstice, he read all he could about FJ.

 

So he knew she's afraid of snakes, she doesn't go out alone at night, and that she's quite a glutton with food. The gluttony part has played to his decision too on why he gave the pimpon fruit to JH even if FJ won it. JH said it's to help her purge the Qiushui toxin. FJ's evasive answers made him think she'll really make pimpon fruit cake (she somewhat confirmed that too, rather than tell him why exactly she wants it badly).

 

23 hours ago, blue_fleurs said:

Not a question but I find it a BIT strange that FJ can act all feisty to DH starting from the scenes in Fanyin Valley - she never had this courage before?  I justify this by saying FJ has given up loving him so she is now free to act her true self in front of him (which is the flamboyant chic that she is).

 

She was angry that she's trapped 6mo in the valley before DH showed up. They also didn't exactly part in good terms before she was swept away from Mt Fuyu. About her sassiness, it isn't new. Book and drama POV, she said she argued with the Buddha when she was younger. And that only her threatened to break DH like a dried stick. 

 

Fun fact: these two are bad with Buddha.  DH stood him up while he's visiting Tai Chen Palace and prefered to hightail it to Fanyin Valley when it opened, while FJ verbally fought with Buddha.

 

23 hours ago, blue_fleurs said:

How much time passed after FJ left to the Mortal Realm after the non-wedding and when she eventually returned?  I've read (on this forum) 200 years - to give me a better idea of how much "time" that is, is that the same amount of time she left the palace as the pet fox and Bai Qian's wedding?  Hopefully it wasn't too long and again, really bitter that we didn't get to see more scenes emphasizing the heartbreak in this period of time.

 

200 immortal years. Drama POV, Cheng Yu was worrying how lonely FJ would be, "since a day in the fairyland is a year in mortal realm." (Ep54)

 

She has already left Tai Chen as his pet for around 305 years when she found out from XY that DH was still looking for his pet fox (just before they fell into Fanyin Valley).

[MayanEcho]

Continuing to the last two questions,

 

23 hours ago, blue_fleurs said:

Did literally no one updated FJ and her family and everyone else why DH was away and missed the wedding?  I find it hard to believe that DH missed the wedding - the preceding scenes he kept reminding FJ that they'll live forever together after the wedding, it's obviously in the forefront of his mind.  So why on earth did he go to see Ji Heng?  Even if he must bring her to the Demon lands, go to the wedding first?  Girl can wait a day by herself.  I'm disappointed in DH's judgment here.  Was this fleshed out in the book?  Also find it hard to believe no one updated the crew about his whereabouts - I hope FJ's family eventually understood that it was a misunderstanding and reverts back to respecting him as emperor and son in law.

 

This is the portion IMO wherein the most intense whitewashing of JH's character in the drama was done. Made worse by bad editing as well.

 

I'd like you to note that DH and FJ are already married before her Bingcang ceremony.

 

Let's start with the book POV. If you have the copies of the translated to English books by Hamster et al, it would start at Vol 2, page 421.

 

Xiao Yan gatecrashed Tai Chen Palace on the eve of the wedding banquet to beg DH to help save JH. JH begged XY to help leave Fanyin Valley, and when they did, she escaped to Mt Baishui to get bitten again by the venomous creatures there. Thus, her Qiushui poisoning got much worse than before. XY found her in this condition, and had no choice but to seek DH to help save JH's life.

 

When he gatecrashed the room of DH, explained his reason why, and presented the crystal claw of Meng Hao, DH and FJ were there together. So FJ knew DH had to go save JH, and she was agreeable to it. After all, it was a life at stake.

 

At Bihai Cangling, Zhong Lin was on hand and was helping her with the visitors. He was on top of the situation, and that FJ was not at all going to be embarrassed of DH's absence since the banquet is for the delayed wedding celebration. DH was such a recluse that the visitors would not be surprised of his absence to his own wedding banquet. 

 

At Mt Baishui, DH found out what JH did, and her reason why. She wants to die on his wedding day so that he would never be able to forget her.(PB2, p466)

 

The crystal claw presented to DH meant a promise of his to be fulfilled for Meng Hao,  given how loyal his former general was and how much he helped him when DH was in tight situations during the unification wars. Somehow JH found out the significance of the crystal claw. When her pleadings to DH to have a place in his heart for her failed, she demanded DH to divorce FJ and remain single forever in fulfilling the crystal claw promise.

 

DH refused, and told JH that the promise he fulfills is still up to him. He told her that in honoring the debt to her late father, JH will be cured of the Qiushui poisoning and he will make the demon clans accept her again as their princess. Afterwards, whether she lives or she dies it won't matter to him anymore, as he never wishes to see her again.

 

Below is the passage of the treatment and why DH couldn't leave immediately the demon realm, narrated by Zhong Lin.

 

There were two ways to cure the Qiushui poison, either slow or quick.  Slow would be using magic along with magical medicine to cure part of the poison, stabilize it, then bring her to Fanyin Valley to recuperate as they did 500 years ago when Jiheng was poisoned for the first time. Quick would be to draw the poison from her body into one's own body, then treat oneself at a later time. The poison in Jiheng's body at this time could only be cured by the second method. 

Because the poison could not be left in her body for too long, curing it would take at least 6 or 7 days. Bringing her back to Red Demon clan would take another day. 

 

In Dijun's careful estimation, the Diezhu sorcery could not be used in the Blue Sea, so he wrote two letters and bid Yan Chiwu to deliver them to the Blue Sea. One was to be given to Fengjiu, the other to the wedding planners, her mother and Zhonglin. The story was briefly explained inside each other these letters. The letter written to Fengjiu's mother and Zhonglin had also suggested that there was no need to announce a postponement to the guests, lest their wedding become a joke. They should instead explain that the Blue Sea's tradition was to invite their guests for a week-long visit. The week-long feast inside the stone palace was for those who received an invitation. Afterward, there would be a feast at the entrance of the Blue Sea for those who didn't receive an invitation. The main reception would take place when he came back in eight days. 
 

His arrangement was nothing less than solicitous. Unfortunately, those solicitous letters did not arrive at the Blue Sea on time. (PB2, p468-469)

 

Why the letters did not reach FJ, Zhong Lin,  and her mother? And why it took 72 days for him to return?

 

Yan Chiwu had rushed to the Blue Sea with Donghua's letters. Unexpectedly, he was met with an enemy on the way and after a hard-fought battle, Xiao Yan lost out at the last minute and fell down Mount Jinwo. He was rescued by the mountain god and ended up staying in a coma for several months. 
 

After he brought Jiheng back to Demon clan, Donghua only realized his letters were never delivered when Zhonglin brought Fengjiu's message to him. He immediately rushed to Qingqiu, but the moment he left the Red Demon clan's border, he perceived a change in the world. After the stabilization of three hundred years ago, the Miaoyi Huiming Realm was about to collapse. 
 

It was indeed Destiny to choose this exact moment to collapse. (PB2, p469-470)

 

I think from here, you can compare now the similarities and differences in the drama POV.  If you don't have copies of the books yet, you can download it from here.

[MayanEcho]

Now to the last question...sorry that I couldn't reply continuously as I'm using my mobile for typing while doing some other thing 

 

10 hours ago, blue_fleurs said:

I read someone's post about how the drama depicted the Dream of Aranya a bit differently; DH and FJ knew about each other's real identities earlier on (than in the book) and left the dream with memories (of what happened in the dream) in tact.  But what was the book's method of fixing FJ's memory...?  Just curious - I definitely prefer the drama's approach.  Also preferred the drama's way of having DH already know that Aranya is FJ (in the masquerade scene watching stars) where she goes on a monologue about sad love.  I interpreted that scene as DH learning about FJ (even if she didn't have her FJ memories at the time) and his impact on her emotionally through their time together.  So, if the book had DH thinking the person in front of him is Aranya during this scene, it wouldn't have allowed for DH to learn about FJ's feelings, which I felt strengthened his feelings for FJ.

 

In the book, DH continuously assumed the identity of Xi Ze as he courted his "wife" FJ Aranya. When they returned from the dream realm, DH was afraid that he and FJ will never have any other chance once she found out that it was him all along and not Xi Ze. Despite Lian Song's advice to have a long talk with her to tell the truth, DH altered FJ's mind to make her forget Xi Ze. 

 

Earlier you mentioned the zero EQ. That's quite true, as DH decides as he sees it fit, and chooses the practical path for solutions without considering the feelings of others. It isn't a surprise he is like this, since DH was the Emperor after all, and has done things his way for too long.

 

As he falls in love though, he also learns that his ways before can not be always applied to his relationship with FJ. His fear of losing her, and finding out how little fate he has with FJ if not for Shen Ye and Aranya, has led to bad decisions that will bite him back later. 

 

They both paid so much.

 

The drama approach does away with the mind altering part, which reduces the confusion for the viewers who haven't read the book...I like it too that they knew who they are in the dream realm.

 

IMO, it was quite more painful in the book POV. What DH thought of as means of saving and keeping his relationship with FJ was viewed as mockery, violation, and disrespect by the woman he loves. Which was also true, since DH tampered with her memories such that FJ is not sure anymore if their relationship was even real. 

 

××××××÷÷÷÷÷÷××××××

 

About your views while watching ELOD, many would agree with you.  

 

1. I too like the mortal realm, but I would prefer it to be at least 2eps shorter. There was no point for JH Chu Wan to be there at all. Only Nie Chuyin among the demons is required, and only briefly, to betray Emperor Song Xuan Ren with his half-brother Prince Ying. 

 

I'd rather have a shorter mortal realm to have the deleted scenes and more refined editing of the final episodes.

 

2. The love of Song Xuan Ren for Xiao Jiu and Shen Ye to Aranya gave glimpses on how much the outwardly cold Dong Hua would love Feng Jiu and what he could do for his love of her. He opened his chest to carve out half of his heart, as FJ said that is the sincere way to show love, then he made it into a ring to protect her even after his demise. (sobs)

 

In the book, he really never met her even as a maid in his palace. He loved her though when she was his pet, and loved her too when they met as equals. Even his shadow loved her shadow.

 

3. They were meant to be no matter how destiny tried to keep them apart. Why else would the Tai Chen recluse join the noisy and boisterous wedding procession to Qing Qiu?  So that they can finally see each other as Dong Hua Di Jun and Bai Feng Jiu.

[blue_fleurs]

@Megan @MayanEcho 

 

Thank you for taking the time to share your answers to my post!  I need to read carefully to thoughtfully reply.  Can't wait!  I didn't go on soompi for TMOPB, wish I did.  Certainly made the CLOY experience significantly better.  

[Megan]

Once the bamboo house is built, can you see the family going shopping for furniture? Unless DH is going to make it all himself? Why not? The house isn’t built yet and he already makes wall screens and pavilions 

[MayanEcho]

10 hours ago, Megan said:

Once the bamboo house is built, can you see the family going shopping for furniture?

 

There will be commissioned artisans coming over to specifically create what they want for furniture, arranged by Zhong Lin. DH, FJ, and BGG may craft something personal for their house, but unlikely they will do or build everything else.

[Lazuria]

Hello everyone I found your forum completely by accident, read about 200 last pages of discussion and it helped me a little to move away from the history of FJ and DH in ELOD. I've been obsessed with FJ and DH (V and R) since TMOPB. After completing both dramas, I became interested in reading both novels. I will say that the story about BQ helped me understand how she felt after the betrayal of YH, her thoughts that were not included in the drama, including in relation to Ali.

The story of FJ and DH is something different, especially in ELOD. I was so heartbroken after their TMOPB story.  I probably lost count of how many times I rewound the ELOD. Their story is fantastic in both drama and novella.

 

I thought for a very long time about what a difficult fate FJ has. How much effort she put into getting DH to notice her. In real life, a person will sooner or later give up. In fact, I think FJ's parents are too cruel to her. After viewing the ELOD and TMOPB, it becomes clear that FJ is being looked after by BQ. FJ hooligans a lot, finds adventures and runs after DH. In addition, she is constantly beaten by her father for her antics.

 

I certainly understand that FJ should become the new queen of Qing Qiu and this involves a lot of responsibility, but forcing her to an unwanted marriage is too much. I don't even know which is worse , in a drama where she gets drunk and unknowingly signs a prenuptial agreement or in a book. It's so wildly written in the novel. She is tied up and forced into a palanquin. Did her feelings mean nothing to her family ?!! It made me very angry, both in the drama and in the book. Not to mention the fact that FJ is not even aware of what marriage is and what happens to the husband and wife on their wedding night. Her own mother hadn't told her anything, and her aunt had torn the pages out of the book. It looks like they want to get rid of FJ as soon as possible, because it causes problems and is not able to rule independently. Let's say that Cang ye or another unwanted husband will take good care of her, but what about love? Her family members got married for love, and FJ can't?

 

It's all so unfair. FJ 30 0000 years. In 10,000 years, her trial will begin. She'll get smart. Or her family assumes she's so hopeless. In addition, in the management of the kingdom, she can be instructed by BQ, not to mention the rest of the family, why immediately marry off. In the case of BQ, there was more justice, she was trained in Kunlun, and she was not rushed with marriage, either with the second prince or with YH. And BQ was free to even ask to break off the engagement, as she wanted to do after remembering that YH had taken her eyes., no one would say a word. Everyone would have sided with her.

 

Now the second point. FJ and DH are finally together, getting married and everything. Again, her family's dissatisfaction with her husband's choice begins. I understand, of course, that they doubt him. FJ has done a lot for him. Yes, he is older than her and they are afraid that DH will have too much power over her. But he promises FJ freedom, she is free in her actions and decision - making. In addition, who better than DH will be able to help her in managing the kingdom.

 

And then there is this unpleasant situation with Ji Heng and the demons. Well, it was as if they were waiting for this opportunity to break up their marriage. You see, the spies told them that DH is with Ji Heng. And their first thought is that DH has a mistress. I don't really understand why they thought that. After watching TMOPB and ELOD, reading the novel, it is quite obvious that he did not have concubines, during the time when he was the Heavenly Emperor. Even LS said that no woman could attract her. So why did they fan these rumors about him. DH is not some peasant or commoner who can take advantage of a woman and abandon her. Besides, he is not one of those gods who can break a given word, promise and fail to fulfill it. After all, he led the troops, led the wars. He was chosen as the leader, became the head of the Heavenly Kingdom. This means that he is trusted and respected.

 

Of course, from Qing Qiu's side, it might look like DH dumped FJ on the wedding day. But how could you say bad things to FJ about DH when they don't even have proof. Again, they don't even think about her feelings. They know perfectly well that she loves him and it hurts her to hear it. I am very sorry for FJ, who was in this situation all alone, and even pregnant. No wonder she didn't say anything to anyone and left for the mortal world. If Qing Qiu found out that she was pregnant, it would be a big scandal. I don't want to talk about DH errors yet, so I'll leave it at that for now.

 

Sorry for such a long post, but I wanted to speak out.

 

[MayanEcho]

Hello @Lazuria, welcome to the thread!  Hope you had a good time reading through the pages. 

 

Bai Feng Jiu was known in the realms as the only red nine-tailed fox, the sole granddaughter of Bai Zhi Dijun, and second most beautiful woman after Bai Qian. She is also known for her naughtiness and mischief, even Si Ming the bagua was one of her victims.

 

The little fox is well loved and quite spoiled by her family, and who wouldn't? They themselves aren't immune to her charms and appeal especially in her fox form. Even something as serious as causing diarrhea to Uncle Bai Zhen was forgiven when she changed to red little fox.

 

The rest of her family is mostly fine, with the exception of Bai Yi, her father, and to a certain point, her mother. Though he taught her her sword skills, and her talent for drawing is from him, Bai Yi couldn't seem to handle his spirited daughter and often resorts to beating his child.

 

Not a surprise though that Bai Yi and FJ couldn't see each other eye to eye since for him, his daughter was not raised as per his standards; FJ was mostly brought up by Bai Qian while he and his wife preferred to be on their own.

 

To be honest, it's very absurd the way he treated his child on both the novels and drama. No father with any sense will present a marriage proposal contract while his daughter is intoxicated. That he won't let her correct the mistake she did at his presence while she was not at all lucid was very unfatherly. In the book, he tied her to the palanquin and sent her off to the groom's residence.

 

His reasons to be in a hurry to find FJ a husband was also very bad; he wanted someone who will help back his daughter when she takes the throne. That, is palming off not only his daughter to another person, but his responsibilities as the parent. It was bad enough that his desperation to find her a husband is so well known that DH the recluse knew it and why.

 

If FJ was lacking and disappointing in any way for him, then Bai Yi as her father should have found some means to fill the void. He could have hired tutors who could adapt their teaching methods best suited for FJ to learn. His child after all was Qing Qiu's only heiress, but he did not contribute much on her actual upbringing. And no, he can't blame his parents or Bai Qian for FJ turning out as she is.

 

3 hours ago, Lazuria said:

Now the second point. FJ and DH are finally together, getting married and everything. Again, her family's dissatisfaction with her husband's choice begins. I understand, of course, that they doubt him. FJ has done a lot for him. Yes, he is older than her and they are afraid that DH will have too much power over her. But he promises FJ freedom, she is free in her actions and decision - making. In addition, who better than DH will be able to help her in managing the kingdom.

 

Who better indeed. DH even told the Bais how capable FJ is. It was DH who has vocally appreciated FJ as she is.

 

“Very beautiful,” he told her. “And she'll be even more beautiful when she grows up.” He paused then added: “She has a good personality too.” Then he recalled: “Also very talented. Talented in everything.” And finally concluded: “Everything about her is wonderful.” Then as though he was speaking to himself: “Since I picked her, naturally everything about her is wonderful.” (PB2, p87)

 

Unfortunately, just as most of the Bais didn't believe in FJ, they too did the same to DH. They did not let him explain his side and took advantage of his absence. Whatever he was did not matter, the rumours they received had more weight. In the book it was Bai Zhi who blew his top. In the drama it was Bai Yi. They of all people should have known who is DH who is known all through out as a recluse and a monk. 

 

It did not help too that JH was his former runaway bride. It would matter a lot to the Bais. Book POV, there was no marriage really to JH since DH looked for his pet as JH eloped with Minsu. Drama POV, it was a ruse to help her escape Xuyang's plans for her. Drama and book POV, it was the demon clan that was embarassed by JH running away from her marriage. However, DH now is with her and did not attend his own wedding reception.

 

Xuyang was mild in the drama, but he is calculating in the book. I won't discount that the rumours of Ji Heng and DH were some kind of maneuverings from him, or from whoever Ji Heng managed to convince to help her manipulate DH before escaping to Mt Baishui. Hopefully there might be future clarifications by TQ what exactly were the rumours for the Bais to react that way against their former ruler. 

 

Even Zhe Yan hated DH enough (not just over the mind alteration book POV) to give FJ the choice to terminate her pregnancy. 

 

DH also did several mistakes and miscalculations, such as not being totally honest with FJ,  and the worse was manipulating her memories that she doesn't know anymore what was real or not between them. That will later be one of the main reasons that would make FJ leave and not wait anymore for him. 

 

About FJ leaving and choosing to be alone in the mortal realm, the silver lining to it is that if DH and his vast network could not find her, then she and Bai Gun Gun were relatively safe from Miao Luo. 

[Megan]

6 hours ago, MayanEcho said:

 

There will be commissioned artisans coming over to specifically create what they want for furniture, arranged by Zhong Lin. DH, FJ, and BGG may craft something personal for their house, but unlikely they will do or build everything else.

I can’t see that. Crafting a few furniture yes. But not inviting artisans. This is Qingqiu, things are done more simply. Hell even Feng Jiu does grocery shopping and Bai Qian had to clean the fox cave.

it’s one thing to invite potential chefs to compete for the right to be Ye Hua’s disciple. But I think it is more likely Feng Jiu will just visit furniture shops.

[UnluckyWhiteCat]

3 hours ago, Lazuria said:

I thought for a very long time about what a difficult fate FJ has. How much effort she put into getting DH to notice her. In real life, a person will sooner or later give up. In fact, I think FJ's parents are too cruel to her. After viewing the ELOD and TMOPB, it becomes clear that FJ is being looked after by BQ. FJ hooligans a lot, finds adventures and runs after DH. In addition, she is constantly beaten by her father for her antics.

 

I certainly understand that FJ should become the new queen of Qing Qiu and this involves a lot of responsibility, but forcing her to an unwanted marriage is too much. I don't even know which is worse , in a drama where she gets drunk and unknowingly signs a prenuptial agreement or in a book. It's so wildly written in the novel. She is tied up and forced into a palanquin. Did her feelings mean nothing to her family ?!! It made me very angry, both in the drama and in the book. Not to mention the fact that FJ is not even aware of what marriage is and what happens to the husband and wife on their wedding night. Her own mother hadn't told her anything, and her aunt had torn the pages out of the book. It looks like they want to get rid of FJ as soon as possible, because it causes problems and is not able to rule independently. Let's say that Cang ye or another unwanted husband will take good care of her, but what about love? Her family members got married for love, and FJ can't?

 

It's all so unfair. FJ 30 0000 years. In 10,000 years, her trial will begin. She'll get smart. Or her family assumes she's so hopeless. In addition, in the management of the kingdom, she can be instructed by BQ, not to mention the rest of the family, why immediately marry off. In the case of BQ, there was more justice, she was trained in Kunlun, and she was not rushed with marriage, either with the second prince or with YH. And BQ was free to even ask to break off the engagement, as she wanted to do after remembering that YH had taken her eyes., no one would say a word. Everyone would have sided with her.

 

Absolutely! I totally agree, FJ's parents (Bai Yi specifically, really) in both the drama and book totally ignored what FJ wanted. Like you said, it really is a stark contrast from the way that Bai Qian is treated as pertaining to marriage. The way that she is treated is completely unfair and there definitely is some sort of double standard going on. It is absolutely also incredibly hypocritical for him to marry for love and totally ignore that FJ should have the same right. I mean, you don't even raise your own daughter and suddenly you try to micromanage her life...?

 

"When Fengjiu was little, her parents had wanted to build a love nest for just themselves to live in for a little longer, so because she was in the way, for a very long stretch of time, she was tossed over into the care of her aunt Bai Qian to raise. Growing up with this aunt, things like climbing trees and catching birds to catching fish in the streams were not things that she was unfamiliar with. Once, while her little uncle was taking a nap, she took advantage and even plucked all the feathers clean from the Jingwei bird he was raising" (APB1).

 

I must say, this passage is very telling of the way he treats her. He's only a father when it's convenient for him. 

 

Now, that being said, I can also understand why Bai Yi is worried about her future. It gives him absolutely no right to make such an important decision for FJ, but the way he sees it, FJ is so mischievous and unruly that she's not really capable of taking care of herself, and this mindset combined with his love for her leads him to this unfortunate conclusion that the only thing that can reign FJ in is finding a good husband for her. I do personally feel that this may also have to do with her ascension trials in the future, because not passing them is equivalent to death and they wouldn't want that for their beloved youngest fox would they?

 

Regarding the point you made about FJ not knowing anything about what happens on a couple's wedding night, the reason that turned out that way was because FJ was being extremely (and rightfully so) uncooperative and they were busy trying to get her into the palanquin, so they certainly didn't have time to educate her on it. I also don't think that Bai Qian necessarily purposely tore pages out of that book, and it doesn't really specifically say that she did anywhere in the book. I do seem to recall that the word used in the book could be translated as "deleted," but it doesn't mean that Bai Qian did it. It could just as easily be that whoever wrote (or copied) that book left it out. Additionally, this is (sort of) set historically (albeit in a fantastical universe), so it absolutely would make sense to me if FJ doesn't know what happens on a wedding night because Chinese society is certainly much more conservative than western society is. This is also set in history, so if she doesn't know anything, it probably wouldn't be completely out of the norm either time-period wise. 

 

3 hours ago, Lazuria said:

Now the second point. FJ and DH are finally together, getting married and everything. Again, her family's dissatisfaction with her husband's choice begins. I understand, of course, that they doubt him. FJ has done a lot for him. Yes, he is older than her and they are afraid that DH will have too much power over her. But he promises FJ freedom, she is free in her actions and decision - making. In addition, who better than DH will be able to help her in managing the kingdom.

 

And then there is this unpleasant situation with Ji Heng and the demons. Well, it was as if they were waiting for this opportunity to break up their marriage. You see, the spies told them that DH is with Ji Heng. And their first thought is that DH has a mistress. I don't really understand why they thought that. After watching TMOPB and ELOD, reading the novel, it is quite obvious that he did not have concubines, during the time when he was the Heavenly Emperor. Even LS said that no woman could attract her. So why did they fan these rumors about him. DH is not some peasant or commoner who can take advantage of a woman and abandon her. Besides, he is not one of those gods who can break a given word, promise and fail to fulfill it. After all, he led the troops, led the wars. He was chosen as the leader, became the head of the Heavenly Kingdom. This means that he is trusted and respected.

 

Of course, from Qing Qiu's side, it might look like DH dumped FJ on the wedding day. But how could you say bad things to FJ about DH when they don't even have proof. Again, they don't even think about her feelings. They know perfectly well that she loves him and it hurts her to hear it. I am very sorry for FJ, who was in this situation all alone, and even pregnant. No wonder she didn't say anything to anyone and left for the mortal world. If Qing Qiu found out that she was pregnant, it would be a big scandal. I don't want to talk about DH errors yet, so I'll leave it at that for now.

 

Well said! I would like to point out, though, that they actually do have some grounds to be suspicious of DH on. No, he did not have concubines or any association with any woman during his reign, but there were plenty of rumors of his relationship with Jiheng. She was supposed to be his bride after all, right up until she disappeared on their wedding night? And who besides the two of them (and I suppose Minsu and Zhonglin) would know that this entire wedding was a sham? To the rest of the world, the Bai family included, DH was supposed to marry Jiheng. And especially because he had never been associated with a woman before Jiheng, wouldn't you be all the more wary when he suddenly disappears on his wedding day to be with this same other woman? This is probably proof enough for them, and it certainly is for FJ. Yes, they absolutely jumped to conclusions before he could show up to explain himself, but if you were in FJ's shoes, would you really wait around for 73 days for someone to come looking for you?

 

Now, a part of the blame for this misunderstanding (a part, the rest is up to the fate) is actually on DH. He made one mistake after another through the course of and after Aranya's Dream, and these mistakes all culminated in FJ finally walking away from him. 

 

Of course, everything I've said here is my own character analysis based on my personal interpretation of the evidence, so take what you will from this.  

[MayanEcho]

3 hours ago, Megan said:

I can’t see that. Crafting a few furniture yes. But not inviting artisans. This is Qingqiu, things are done more simply. Hell even Feng Jiu does grocery shopping and Bai Qian had to clean the fox cave.

it’s one thing to invite potential chefs to compete for the right to be Ye Hua’s disciple. But I think it is more likely Feng Jiu will just visit furniture shops.

 

That is your view. 

 

DH and FJ can do their usual thing, and they can also do something else for a change. Feng Jiu was planning to make Mi Gu build the bamboo residence. DH can also do all of it if he wants to. If he can craft 200 wedding dresses, he can also build his wife's planned residence and the furnitures if he chooses to.

 

However, even the Tai Chen Palace which was built to DH's wishes, says nothing in the book or drama that DH has personally overseen everything about it. The furniture he uses and his potteries among other things may be his own handcrafting, but all the other things like what are in Zhong Lin's room?

 

So why can't they also see what artisans can do for them in Qing Qiu? Say, as wedding gift, some would offer their skills for the former master of the universe and the Queen of Qing Qiu? They are beloved and admired figures, any artisans in the realms would be honoured to be commissioned for their new home's every nook and crannies.

 

If someone like the very capable Zhong Lin can do or arrange it for them, with the instructions of DH and FJ on what they want, it can be done that way too. They can be hands on, or choose not to. They don't have to be there every step. That's anal retentive micro-managing, which they do not do.

 

That is the view I have, basing on actual observations. For some very privileged people, they work hard on their actual responsibilities, and others would do the nominal chores for them, so that they can pursue and have time with what really matters: their family, their hobbies, their interests.

 

It is not fairyland, but DH certainly knows about delegation of tasks and responsibilities. 

 

Oh yeah, there's this fame of theirs too. Drama POV, for instance, Ali and FJ were in disguise at the fair to avoid attention and enjoy themselves. Imagine if it's DH, FJ, and BGG out to shop. It can go two ways - the citizens respectfully keep their distance, or there will be so much bowing that it takes away the joy of the outing. It will take time for the citizens before they can be as casual as they were to Bai Qian to DH and BGG. 

 

In Fanyin Valley, FJ herself felt so awestruck that if she had seen before the reverence Biyiniao folks accorded DH, she will never attempt to chase him. It's the aptly called Sovereign's Aura which she never saw until then, reminding her that he was once the regal sovereign of six realms.

[Lazuria]

8 hours ago, MayanEcho said:

Hello @Lazuria, welcome to the thread!  Hope you had a good time reading through the pages. 

 

Bai Feng Jiu was known in the realms as the only red nine-tailed fox, the sole granddaughter of Bai Zhi Dijun, and second most beautiful woman after Bai Qian. She is also known for her naughtiness and mischief, even Si Ming the bagua was one of her victims.

 

The little fox is well loved and quite spoiled by her family, and who wouldn't? They themselves aren't immune to her charms and appeal especially in her fox form. Even something as serious as causing diarrhea to Uncle Bai Zhen was forgiven when she changed to red little fox.

 

The rest of her family is mostly fine, with the exception of Bai Yi, her father, and to a certain point, her mother. Though he taught her her sword skills, and her talent for drawing is from him, Bai Yi couldn't seem to handle his spirited daughter and often resorts to beating his child.

 

Not a surprise though that Bai Yi and FJ couldn't see each other eye to eye since for him, his daughter was not raised as per his standards; FJ was mostly brought up by Bai Qian while he and his wife preferred to be on their own.

 

To be honest, it's very absurd the way he treated his child on both the novels and drama. No father with any sense will present a marriage proposal contract while his daughter is intoxicated. That he won't let her correct the mistake she did at his presence while she was not at all lucid was very unfatherly. In the book, he tied her to the palanquin and sent her off to the groom's residence.

 

His reasons to be in a hurry to find FJ a husband was also very bad; he wanted someone who will help back his daughter when she takes the throne. That, is palming off not only his daughter to another person, but his responsibilities as the parent. It was bad enough that his desperation to find her a husband is so well known that DH the recluse knew it and why.

 

If FJ was lacking and disappointing in any way for him, then Bai Yi as her father should have found some means to fill the void. He could have hired tutors who could adapt their teaching methods best suited for FJ to learn. His child after all was Qing Qiu's only heiress, but he did not contribute much on her actual upbringing. And no, he can't blame his parents or Bai Qian for FJ turning out as she is.

 

 

Who better indeed. DH even told the Bais how capable FJ is. It was DH who has vocally appreciated FJ as she is.

 

“Very beautiful,” he told her. “And she'll be even more beautiful when she grows up.” He paused then added: “She has a good personality too.” Then he recalled: “Also very talented. Talented in everything.” And finally concluded: “Everything about her is wonderful.” Then as though he was speaking to himself: “Since I picked her, naturally everything about her is wonderful.” (PB2, p87)

 

Unfortunately, just as most of the Bais didn't believe in FJ, they too did the same to DH. They did not let him explain his side and took advantage of his absence. Whatever he was did not matter, the rumours they received had more weight. In the book it was Bai Zhi who blew his top. In the drama it was Bai Yi. They of all people should have known who is DH who is known all through out as a recluse and a monk. 

 

It did not help too that JH was his former runaway bride. It would matter a lot to the Bais. Book POV, there was no marriage really to JH since DH looked for his pet as JH eloped with Minsu. Drama POV, it was a ruse to help her escape Xuyang's plans for her. Drama and book POV, it was the demon clan that was embarassed by JH running away from her marriage. However, DH now is with her and did not attend his own wedding reception.

 

Xuyang was mild in the drama, but he is calculating in the book. I won't discount that the rumours of Ji Heng and DH were some kind of maneuverings from him, or from whoever Ji Heng managed to convince to help her manipulate DH before escaping to Mt Baishui. Hopefully there might be future clarifications by TQ what exactly were the rumours for the Bais to react that way against their former ruler. 

 

Even Zhe Yan hated DH enough (not just over the mind alteration book POV) to give FJ the choice to terminate her pregnancy. 

 

DH also did several mistakes and miscalculations, such as not being totally honest with FJ,  and the worse was manipulating her memories that she doesn't know anymore what was real or not between them. That will later be one of the main reasons that would make FJ leave and not wait anymore for him. 

 

About FJ leaving and choosing to be alone in the mortal realm, the silver lining to it is that if DH and his vast network could not find her, then she and Bai Gun Gun were relatively safe from Miao Luo. 

Thank you for such a detailed answer.

 

It's possible that JH actually asked Xuyang to help her manipulate DX. Yes, and other demons could see DX and JH together and interpret it in their own way. Naturally, the rumors reached the Bai family as well. Even if you take a moment from the drama where FJ came to the demon realm to find out where DX. Xuyang replied that he was with JH, so FJ made her own conclusion.

 

If you take the drama version, since the part about memory manipulation is not there, I still won't blame FJ for leaving. She is still very young and misinterpreted the situation with DX. She was affected by her father's words that DX is with JX. FJ felt abandoned, used and at the same time she was also pregnant (mood swings made themselves felt).

 

Have a Zhe Yan has a reason to hate DH. Since Zhe Yan was an observer of the developing uneasy relationship between DH and FJ.  Zhe Yan sees it as if DH took advantage of FJ's naivety and then abandoned him. (according to the book version, you can add memory manipulation to this).

[Lazuria]

7 hours ago, UnluckyWhiteCat said:

 

Absolutely! I totally agree, FJ's parents (Bai Yi specifically, really) in both the drama and book totally ignored what FJ wanted. Like you said, it really is a stark contrast from the way that Bai Qian is treated as pertaining to marriage. The way that she is treated is completely unfair and there definitely is some sort of double standard going on. It is absolutely also incredibly hypocritical for him to marry for love and totally ignore that FJ should have the same right. I mean, you don't even raise your own daughter and suddenly you try to micromanage her life...?

 

"When Fengjiu was little, her parents had wanted to build a love nest for just themselves to live in for a little longer, so because she was in the way, for a very long stretch of time, she was tossed over into the care of her aunt Bai Qian to raise. Growing up with this aunt, things like climbing trees and catching birds to catching fish in the streams were not things that she was unfamiliar with. Once, while her little uncle was taking a nap, she took advantage and even plucked all the feathers clean from the Jingwei bird he was raising" (APB1).

 

I must say, this passage is very telling of the way he treats her. He's only a father when it's convenient for him. 

 

Now, that being said, I can also understand why Bai Yi is worried about her future. It gives him absolutely no right to make such an important decision for FJ, but the way he sees it, FJ is so mischievous and unruly that she's not really capable of taking care of herself, and this mindset combined with his love for her leads him to this unfortunate conclusion that the only thing that can reign FJ in is finding a good husband for her. I do personally feel that this may also have to do with her ascension trials in the future, because not passing them is equivalent to death and they wouldn't want that for their beloved youngest fox would they?

 

Regarding the point you made about FJ not knowing anything about what happens on a couple's wedding night, the reason that turned out that way was because FJ was being extremely (and rightfully so) uncooperative and they were busy trying to get her into the palanquin, so they certainly didn't have time to educate her on it. I also don't think that Bai Qian necessarily purposely tore pages out of that book, and it doesn't really specifically say that she did anywhere in the book. I do seem to recall that the word used in the book could be translated as "deleted," but it doesn't mean that Bai Qian did it. It could just as easily be that whoever wrote (or copied) that book left it out. Additionally, this is (sort of) set historically (albeit in a fantastical universe), so it absolutely would make sense to me if FJ doesn't know what happens on a wedding night because Chinese society is certainly much more conservative than western society is. This is also set in history, so if she doesn't know anything, it probably wouldn't be completely out of the norm either time-period wise. 

 

 

Well said! I would like to point out, though, that they actually do have some grounds to be suspicious of DH on. No, he did not have concubines or any association with any woman during his reign, but there were plenty of rumors of his relationship with Jiheng. She was supposed to be his bride after all, right up until she disappeared on their wedding night? And who besides the two of them (and I suppose Minsu and Zhonglin) would know that this entire wedding was a sham? To the rest of the world, the Bai family included, DH was supposed to marry Jiheng. And especially because he had never been associated with a woman before Jiheng, wouldn't you be all the more wary when he suddenly disappears on his wedding day to be with this same other woman? This is probably proof enough for them, and it certainly is for FJ. Yes, they absolutely jumped to conclusions before he could show up to explain himself, but if you were in FJ's shoes, would you really wait around for 73 days for someone to come looking for you?

 

Now, a part of the blame for this misunderstanding (a part, the rest is up to the fate) is actually on DH. He made one mistake after another through the course of and after Aranya's Dream, and these mistakes all culminated in FJ finally walking away from him. 

 

Of course, everything I've said here is my own character analysis based on my personal interpretation of the evidence, so take what you will from this.  

Thank you for your point of view.

 

It's really annoying that as a father, Bai Yi didn't pay enough attention to FJ's upbringing. And then he expects her to obey him. I won't blame BQ. She also didn't listen to anyone when she was younger, and also likes to get drunk until she passes out and no one cares. So why should FJ unquestioningly do what her father told her to do? If she wants to wear mourning for a mortal, so be it. But no, it is necessary to quickly find her a husband, wants/does not want who will ask her.

 

I totally agree with you about DX's fault that FJ left. She held out for a long time and waited 73 days, even after learning that he had manipulated her memory. If I were her, I wouldn't have been able to wait that long, and I would have left as soon as the truth came out. I think FJ is a very strong personality. She was able to raise her son alone. What prevented her from terminating her pregnancy and then erasing her memories of loving DX? The truth is, she wanted a baby and knew she would love DX even after learning what he had done to her.

 

In matters of love, BQ is much weaker than FJ. It's very disappointing that she abandons her child twice. How Susu can still be understood, but I would like that BQ took Ali remembering what was done to her in Heaven. But that would be a different story, too simple.

 

Both DX and EX made mistakes with respect to BQ and FJ. And I am concerned about one question, let's say if the problem with Qing Qang and Miao Luo was solved without problems. Whether EX was going to reveal the truth about BQ's death trial and most importantly get her eyes back, deal with Sujin, personally, I was unhappy that he didn't do anything at all when Sujin said that Yuan Zhen was molesting her - that was such a chance to get rid of Sujin. EX could have taken away her Susu eyes as punishment, but he didn't do anything.  And DX, was going to tell the truth about changing FJ's memory? Or they just got married and their marriage would start with a lie. If the truth came out during their life together, BQ and FJ would suffer even more.

[Megan]

1 hour ago, Lazuria said:

I totally agree with you about DX's fault that FJ left. She held out for a long time and waited 73 days,

She didn’t wait for him for that long. He came to Qingqiu after 70+ days

[MayanEcho]

4 hours ago, Lazuria said:

Have a Zhe Yan has a reason to hate DH. Since Zhe Yan was an observer of the developing uneasy relationship between DH and FJ.  Zhe Yan sees it as if DH took advantage of FJ's naivety and then abandoned him. (according to the book version, you can add memory manipulation to this).

 

Zhe Yan also dotes with FJ and has always been very supportive of her. 

 

FJ was very young compared to them all, but at that point, she had shown that she is capable of handling stress and emotional turmoil. She managed to hold on to her sanity despite the hurt, embarrassment, the feeling of being abandoned and fooled of the one she loves, and then her pregnancy.

 

Her leaving is one of her most grown-up decisions. It is her taking control of her situation. 

 

3 hours ago, Lazuria said:

She held out for a long time and waited 73 days, even after learning that he had manipulated her memory.

 

She did not wait that long. She stayed in Bihai Cangling for 3 days, then she and Zhong Lin went to demon realm to separately look for Xiao Yan and Xuyang. That took another 3 days before they met again. That was also when her family came to take her, and telling her the rumours of DH and JH seen together, and that not only was the demon princess looking well in his arms, the Miaohua mirror was also sent in the demon realm.

 

She waited two more days in Qing Qiu for DH,  then on the 3rd day, she found out she's pregnant. She left for the underworld the day after and stayed there another 3 days before descending to the mortal realm.

 

As for DH, it took 72 days before he reached Qing Qiu after he left demon realm and stabilised Miaoyi Huiming realm with the use of Lianxin Glass.

 

3 hours ago, Lazuria said:

What prevented her from terminating her pregnancy and then erasing her memories of loving DX? The truth is, she wanted a baby and knew she would love DX even after learning what he had done to her.

 

Also for FJ, the baby has nothing to do with the problems between his mother and the father. FJ never stopped loving DH for thousand of years, Xie Guchou has described it as instinct. 

 

3 hours ago, Lazuria said:

In matters of love, BQ is much weaker than FJ. It's very disappointing that she abandons her child twice. How Susu can still be understood, but I would like that BQ took Ali remembering what was done to her in Heaven. But that would be a different story, too simple.

 

BQ would have scarred Ali if she took him with her when YH died, since she herself can not take care of herself. She was not fit to parent Ali in that 3 years. She travelled with Bai Zhen, but she did not consider seeing her son...it was Ali who would find her in mortal realm. 

 

IMO, it can be something to do too of her treatment of YH before he sacrificed his soul. In the drama she refused to see him and let him explain himself, made him stand outside for days. She has too much pride, didn't care that he's another clan's crown prince, not even that he's the twin of her shifu Mo Yuan. 

 

She was eaten by guilt over YH, and she may not have the courage to face Ali. Because Ali will ask her about the last days of his father. What would she tell their son?

 

hours ago, Lazuria said:

personally, I was unhappy that he didn't do anything at all when Sujin said that Yuan Zhen was molesting her - that was such a chance to get rid of Sujin. EX could have taken away her Susu eyes as punishment, but he didn't do anything.

 

YH did nothing that time since Tianjun was already there passing hasty judgment. But YH later told Sujin that he knew it was one of her games. IMO, the trial handled later by DH was more satisfying since Sujin's shenanigans came to light. Also, though Tianjun was not named as her accomplice, DH's questioning more or less him exposed him that his judgment was flawed and unfair when it comes to Sujin.

 

Ye Hua had chances though, since Bai Qian has been saying some things which he could have used as opening for a no holds barred talk between them.

 

3 hours ago, Lazuria said:

And DX, was going to tell the truth about changing FJ's memory? Or they just got married and their marriage would start with a lie.

 

Quite unlikely. His reason is that he's afraid he may not be able to reconcile with FJ if she knew the truth of his deception of her in Aranya's dream. The mind alteration was his means after he found out their very fragile fate. It was, however, an underestimation of FJ, as IMO, she would understand if he had come clean on why he kept impersonating Xi Ze in the dream realm. 

 

It was a very hard, learning lesson for both. DH will be punished of her leaving him,  FJ would live lonely and alone with BGG for not having enough patience to wait for DH's side of story.

[Lazuria]

2 hours ago, MayanEcho said:

YH did nothing that time since Tianjun was already there passing hasty judgment. But YH later told Sujin that he knew it was one of her games. IMO, the trial handled later by DH was more satisfying since Sujin's shenanigans came to light. Also, though Tianjun was not named as her accomplice, DH's questioning more or less him exposed him that his judgment was flawed and unfair when it comes to Sujin.

 

Ye Hua had chances though, since Bai Qian has been saying some things which he could have used as opening for a no holds barred talk between them.

 

 

Quite unlikely. His reason is that he's afraid he may not be able to reconcile with FJ if she knew the truth of his deception of her in Aranya's dream. The mind alteration was his means after he found out their very fragile fate. It was, however, an underestimation of FJ, as IMO, she would understand if he had come clean on why he kept impersonating Xi Ze in the dream realm. 

 

It was a very hard, learning lesson for both. DH will be punished of her leaving him,  FJ would live lonely and alone with BGG for not having enough patience to wait for DH's side of story.

It's understandable that EX already knew about Sujin games. Tianjun turns a blind eye to Sujin's antics, but this was the perfect chance to at least punish her. EX perfectly pretended not to like Susu. It's just not fair that Yuan Zhen alone is being punished and has been sent to the mortal realm. Why not do the same with Sujin? EX could talk about his reputation that Sujin had tarnished, blame her. Tianjun may be Sujin's patron, but she is now a concubine, and only he has the right to punish her. Sujin herself began to play a comedy and asked for punishment. Still, DX protected FJ much better, yes, he made mistakes, but he would never be able to cause her physical pain, as EX BQ did.

 

The celestials are so hypocritical in fact. The strange thing is that at Sujin's trial, until DX asked Yuan Zhen how many times he had been to the palace, and Yuan Zhen replied that the first time, no one guessed Sujin's scheming or everyone knew but kept quiet. Tianjun is the most useless ruler. I would even like that in TMOPB DX returned to his throne and brought order to the rotten Heavenly Palace.

 

As for the events after Aranya's dream, I also think that DX would never have told FJ the truth for fear of losing her. I never thought that the almighty DX would be afraid of anything. His biggest fear is losing FJ, her love. Like the situation with Shen Ye, when DX thought he had lost FJ. In any case, DX and FJ have overcome their unfortunate fate and will now be together forever. I'm wondering what test in 10,000 years FJ will have to pass? Is there any chance that she will be blessed by the Heavens and become a supreme celestial without a trial? She will be rewarded for all her suffering, because the heavens were touched by her pure love for DX.

[UnluckyWhiteCat]

1 hour ago, Lazuria said:

It's understandable that EX already knew about Sujin games. Tianjun turns a blind eye to Sujin's antics, but this was the perfect chance to at least punish her. EX perfectly pretended not to like Susu. It's just not fair that Yuan Zhen alone is being punished and has been sent to the mortal realm. Why not do the same with Sujin? EX could talk about his reputation that Sujin had tarnished, blame her. Tianjun may be Sujin's patron, but she is now a concubine, and only he has the right to punish her. Sujin herself began to play a comedy and asked for punishment. Still, DX protected FJ much better, yes, he made mistakes, but he would never be able to cause her physical pain, as EX BQ did.

 

Is EX supposed to be Yehua?

 

Yes, Yuan Zhen is punished, but its because Sujin was smart and played on the fact that Tianjun couldn't stand Yuan Zhen because of Sang Ji's infatuation with Shao Xin. Tianjun likely didn't even bother to question what happened; he only really heard what Sujin said, and that's part of his flaw as a ruler. He hears what he wants to hear. But ultimately, the truth does come out and Yuan Zhen, although he did suffer through that trial, is exonerated. 

 

Sujin is punished—in fact, in the drama (not sure about the book) she's banished and punished to reincarnate as a mortal for basically forever. It isn't immediately, and only occurs after everything else happens, for being a coward and not guarding the bell properly, but she is still punished. Yehua actually would not be able to punish Sujin because even though she is his concubine (is this what you're saying?), she still has Tianjun's backing, which does still mean quite a lot. And he did actually run her through with a sword when she showed up for their wedding, so that's something, I guess? 

 

1 hour ago, Lazuria said:

The celestials are so hypocritical in fact. The strange thing is that at Sujin's trial, until DX asked Yuan Zhen how many times he had been to the palace, and Yuan Zhen replied that the first time, no one guessed Sujin's scheming or everyone knew but kept quiet. Tianjun is the most useless ruler. I would even like that in TMOPB DX returned to his throne and brought order to the rotten Heavenly Palace.

 

I believe both Yehua and Liansong knew of Sujin's scheming, but they obviously can't say something that would contradict Tianjun's decision because as we all know, his decision was already final, even before anyone opened their mouths. Tianjun saw what he wanted to see; he expected Yuan Zhen to turn out exactly like his father, so that's exactly what he saw. Of course it's not right, and a ruler should be open to hearing all sides of a story, but this is one of the current Tianjun's major flaws (and of course it also contributes to the development of the storyline). 

 

1 hour ago, Lazuria said:

As for the events after Aranya's dream, I also think that DX would never have told FJ the truth for fear of losing her. I never thought that the almighty DX would be afraid of anything. His biggest fear is losing FJ, her love. Like the situation with Shen Ye, when DX thought he had lost FJ. In any case, DX and FJ have overcome their unfortunate fate and will now be together forever. I'm wondering what test in 10,000 years FJ will have to pass? Is there any chance that she will be blessed by the Heavens and become a supreme celestial without a trial? She will be rewarded for all her suffering, because the heavens were touched by her pure love for DX.

 

In 10,000 years or so, Fengjiu is going to have a trial with three lightning strikes. It's the trial every fairy goes through to ascend to High Immortal. In the world that Tangqi built, I doubt that there would be a way in which anyone would be able to skip either of the trials. The three lightning strikes can be taken on by another immortal, but the ascension trial for High God status could only be taken on by the individual him/herself. Those trials are meant as an equalizer; you can only pass if you're good enough to, and regardless of how much Fengjiu suffered (a lot), her suffering can't just cancel out her trials.