[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner

[hiluna]

4 hours ago, kaoriharang said:

maybe perhaps the poison works in two ways?

one if by making it lethal, JM would die right away. Wouldnt the King (who knows that the Queen and Yo covert the throne) immediately investigate the Queen? So maybe in order to cover her tracks she gives him a lighter dose? Plus JM is already weak and frail so wouldnt a weaker dose already been just as effective?

second, even though the queen has not found out about WW-HS, she knows that HS has a signifcant value to So, so maybe she is using HS as a scapegoat also to torture her son?

Maybe it is YH in cahoots with the Queen who wants to get rid of HS because Soo is in the way of getting her brother married off and her own plans for WS. Remember in the preview she barged in on Queen Yoo so she probably wanted to form an alliance.

[andy78]

4 hours ago, alna0507 said:

The rain scene is my favorite in c-version and  i cried a lot  now its going to happen again in k-version... Hope the ending won't be too sad like c-version.

i feel the same...i did not watched c version i just read about it...i hope they will do some changes...i hope HS will be honest and tell him she once thought she loved WW and wanted to marry him...

[gluttonousrice]

@Gabi Bros Remember the post that you posted about you not being able to watch the new episodes aired because life gets in the way? Well, look at who was in the same exact position after a few weeks. ME. 

[ruizaio]

@Adnana I have decided to bring up synopsis stuff only after the relevant timing passes in the aired episodes and if deviates much from the actual episodes. So I'm just going to keep my fingers zipped up about this issue.

 

On another hand, I suppose I could bring up a theory that somebody on SHR DC had speculated before that doesn't hold much water, but was still interesting and had generated much discussion a few weeks ago.

This person suggested that WW and WY had already secretly teamed up and were discussing how to get rid of CP before the start of MLSHR. The real Hae Soo somehow found out about it, and that's why she drowned. This is why WW was observing HS carefully, making comments like "You seem like a different person" and asking her if she lost her memory before or after spying on the princes in the bath. This would also explain why WW is so calm when YH is so eager to do anything to secure their position in Songak. So this person speculated that HS somehow would find out that WW had something to do with the real HS's death and distance herself from him because of that. 

Of course, this theory doesn't seem likely at all with the current turn of events.

 

[leekyuphii]

this morning when visit this thread and back read some stuff, i thought "ah at the weekend this thread calmer than weekdays" but yeah im wrong.... totally wrong....its already past my bed time...what am i even doing here????still on my way back reading 10 pages before sleep...there is no calm time or quiet time on this thread...

try to stir my attention away by watch some new drama today but in the end i still open this thread again before sleep...and BAM found so many still cut or spoiler pics or anything you called it..thanks for sharing it!!!!!

i know i know i already predict it about the torture things but DANGGGGGG....its still so f***ing hurt when see that still pics,,,,especially the torture one...heol...lee ji eun really did a good job here...i almost cant recognize her..especially in this pic

Spoiler

(she really looks like sulli *IU friend too* here) two thumbs up lee ji eun!!!!!!first time see you acting a hurt scene like this...im hurt too by see the pic how about see the actual scene later (oh please dont cut it and execute the editing well)

and the OTP pics...ah so lovely and its sad, bittersweet too (i literally scream because yeay finally got many still cuts from OTP usually what i get WW-HS again)...and the legendary rain scene (oh thanks God i already watch the rain scene cut from BBJX a few days ago so i know how amazing that scene and thanks the korean version include that scene)...WS is so cool and awesome....always beside HS no matter what happen (where is WW?????you late again wangjanim...)

i thought HS cant reach WS after the poison accident happen (i thought she already being take away by royal guard before reach WS) but NoOoooooooooooooooooo they hold hands too...thanks God at least they are met!!!!

Spoiler

oh i still cant see our OTP full of blood tomorrow (yeah tomorrow because its already Sunday here) one because poison tea and one because torture..ahh must prepare my heart...and lady oh...when i started to like her and know the truly heart of her...when i thought ah HS finally found another mother figure...she really will take a blame of the poison accident????arrrggggghhhhhhh another reason for bleeding Mon-Tue..just bring to me already!!!!

Spoiler

ps: for Indonesian chingu...i always smile when read your conversations..because first time i read conversations in bahasa at this forum..keep going guys!!! and nice to meet you!!!!

 

[ruizaio]

57 minutes ago, enigmatic_zephy said:

You know what is truly amazing and supernatural abt this story..

How in world, two very different countries, two very different kingdoms have so much in common in this game of throne..

How it is 8th, 4th, 13th, 14th, 9th prince in Chinese history  and hence in the original novel... And how those exact numbers correspond to korean history in another era..

Too much of a coincidence.. did i misinterpret some knowledge shared here on the forum?? The resemblance in uncanny

 

The order of princes in the K version has been changed from the actual history. For example, 14th is considered to be older than 8th because he married an older half-sister than 8th. The only coinciding number is 4th, the other princes' numbers are not clear from history.

[sriskaddict]

2 hours ago, pujajain said:

 

While Queen Yoo might not be aware of the relationship, Yeon Hwa has some hints and everyone has some understanding on how So feels about Soo.

As for poison, I don't think they need to kill CP, just establish he is not worthy and force king to declare an alternative as CP. My guess is the poison would either killed or made CP sick. CP's skin sickness would have weakened his immune system and constitution making him more vulnerable to poison than So who was healthy and probably had one of the best constitutions amongst the princes given his harsh life. It impacts him but does not kill him.

I have a feeling that when So cools down, he insists on taking So to the beach and give her the gift he got. Soo goes despite her apprehension and reluctantly. WW and Jung sees them return together and sees a quiet/unhappy Soo on horse and assumes that So is pressuring her into a relationship. He decides to go and ask the king to be allowed to married to her at the right opportunity much to the frustration of Yeon Hwa. He conveys the same to Soo when he sees her later but instead of her usual exuberance, she is withdrawn which worries WW and makes him feel powerless and insecure. Meanwhile Yeon Hwa (historically she was very knowledgeable about poisons) joins hands with the queen to get Soo out of the way. It serves multiple purposes, harm CP, nip Wook-Soo marriage dream in bud, remind So as to who holds the power in palace and deliver a major emotional set-back to him. 

Meanwhile WW forms an alliance with Yo and they try to take out So. The attempt does not succeed but warns So. He confronts his mother who tells him about her plot and challenges him to stop her. So is shocked next day to see the maid in plot is Soo. He does the only thing he can, he drinks the poison to save the CP and at the very least save Soo's life.

Soo is punished and tortured while everyone looks on helpless since speaking on her behalf implicates them. So is recovering all this time. Eventually lady Oh takes the blame on herself and we have Soo begging for mercy in rain while So supports her.

What is interesting to me is -

1)Everyone knows and understands that lady Oh and Soo had no interest in harming the CP and they have had many opportunities to do this past if they wanted to. Odds are that everyone understands who the conspirators are but still innocents are punished to maintain appearances. 

2)Does Wook ever realize the role his sister played in the conspiracy and how does he react to it?

3)So would have managed to win even more of king and CP's favor than ever before after his sacrifice, in someways this incident would change the dynamics in the palace completely.

4)Does Soo ever realize how Wook household is involved in this conspiracy that results in almost death for So, her torture and lady Oh getting entangled in the plot? What is her reaction to it?

agree with all your points. seems like so couldnot succeed but when soo is cuddling bloodied so,he seems alone.so somebody might have tipped off against su.

[KdramaAddict]

@MadraRua

thank you chingu for your kind words of appreciation. 

and before I go to bed to dream some more scarlet ones... another observation after re-watching epi 6 (4th time) that evil queen does have an hunch of WWs interest in HS and thats the reason she asked him (when he went to his mom to seek help regarding HS marrying king) Does thia marriage worry you so much, after asking that her expressions were like trying to take MRI of his brain or xray of his facial expression. also she is worried why her son Jung is also worries abt HS.
so she can surely play some evil tricks to get rid  of HS or to make some deal with WW for her safety.

[Mau_Cherry]

42 minutes ago, Adnana said:

@Artheusa @Mau_Cherry and everyone else wondering what WS is holding in his hand.

It is his sword.

 

 

Ahhh - me again I´m not used to a wooden hilt. A Sword for me is iron... my mistake.. but I like it a lot. He will be ready to fight against anybody who wish to take her away from him and he will not let anyone harm her more. He could not help her before - I´m sure because he had to recover and maybe he did not even know...

Really ---- we have to wait more than one day.. still... I feel like I wait an eternity already...

[essme]

it's the same idea as the sword that the 14th was holding 

[Diana Blanche]

1 hour ago, briseis said:

It might appear I judge Hae Soo too harshly, but the truth is I’m just objectively assessing her actions and actually still love her very much (more in my upcoming posts). It’s completely natural and understandable that she would feel panic and some degree of fear. I’m not blaming her for that - I can even relate to that - anyone would. She had travelled more than 1000 years back in time and that’s something extremely difficult to deal with, but let’s not forget that she has been there for almost a year now; she has already seen many things, terrible things (she even HARMED HERSELF). And while she must have felt abandoned, and as if she were the only person she could rely on, THERE HAS BEEN ONE PERSON WHO HAS ALWAYS STOOD BY HER SIDE AND PROTECTED HER NO MATTER WHAT. And IT’S NOT WOOK WHO KEEPS PROMISING HER SUN AND THE MOON AND FREEDOM, AND HOW NO ONE WOULD EVER TREAT HER BADLY, BUT NEVER MAKING GOOD ON THOSE PROMISES. IT’S WANG SO - HE STOOD BY HER EVEN WHEN WOOK GAVE UP ON HER, even when she herself gave up! 

   

And there lies the crux of the whole problem, she is TURNING ON A MAN WHO HAS ALWAYS PROTECTED HER, who has never done anything wrong to her. HE WAS NOT THE ONE WHO LOVED TWO WOMEN AT THE SAME TIME! You know one thing was when Wook thought he didn’t love MH and that it was only a habit and gratefulness and the moment he acknowledged out loud it was love - he basically admitted he wanted to have both cousins. She forgets everything good So has done for her, SHE DOESN’T EVEN REMEMBER ALL THE ENLIGHTENED THINGS HE DID IN HISTORY - LIKE EMANCIPATING SLAVES IN THE 10TH CENTURY?! Just by doing that he saved thousands of lives and saved even more from unhappiness. SHE IS JUDGING AND CONDEMNING HIM ON UNRELIABLE, OUT-OF-CONTEXT HISTORICAL TRIVIA AND VISIONS, AS IF SHE HAD A GOD-LIKE ABILITY TO KNOW THE BEST AND RECOGNIZE THE TRUTH, AS IF SHE WERE UNFAILING IN HER JUDGEMENT. The worst thing is that she doesn’t give him barely any benefit of doubt. She wants to change his life and the lives of his brothers, but you know what - SO ISN’T SOME MONSTER WHO NEEDS FIXING, HE NEEDS SOMEONE WHO WOULD LOVE HIM AND ACCEPT HIM AND SEE WHAT AN AMAZING HUMAN BEING HE IS. 

   

I think that’s basically one of the core messages and morals of the novel -INFORMATION IS POWERFUL AND DANGEROUS, BUT THAT DOESN’T MEAN THAT’S THE COMPLETE TRUTH. KNOWLEDGE OF THE PAST, NO MATTER HOW VAST OR LIMITED IT IS, DOESN’T GIVE ANYONE THE RIGHT TO JUDGE OTHERS. One of the reasons why SO fell in love with HS is because she never judged him, no matter how damning the circumstances where, no matter how much literal blood was on his hands - but now she is judging and condemning him for crimes he didn’t commit WITHOUT GIVING HIM THE OPPORTUNITY TO DEFEND HIMSELF. This is Hae Soo’s biggest crime and she will realize it soon, unfortunately it’s already done AND SHE WILL LOSE HIM FOR IT. 

 

And in the same time honest with her.

I know you like Hae Soo from your previous posts. That's why I was amazed by your critique even I knew that you're right. Thank you for your answer.

[pigsflyy]

19 minutes ago, Diana Blanche said:

 

And in the same time honest with her.

I know you like Hae Soo from your previous posts. That's why I was amazed by your critique even I knew that you're right. Thank you for your answer.

 

I just want to add to your discussion.

Do you think Hae Soo is extra afraid of Wang So, because she can see that he is capable of killing many. She saw him in his breakdown when he was all bloody and confessed to her that he killed many.

I agree that Wang So delivers on his promises more with action than Wang Wook. But I also noted that many of the things that he did for Hae Soo like confronting his mother after she interrogated Hae Soo was done behind the scene. Hae Soo is not aware of the many things Wang So has done with her.

Before Wang So realized his feelings for her, they had a friendly relationship, but he was also more gruff with her, and threatened her multiple of times. He never expressed romantic interest until the make up scene, which made her freeze from shock.

I think Hae Soo is as of now only romantically focused on Wang Wook still. So she would be more concerned for Wook's safety and the other princes if anything were to threaten them. Wang So happens to be threat according to her vision, and that scares the hell out of her, because her actions with the make up gave him the opportunity to be the king, so she feels responsible.

Just my take.

 

[Adnana]

55 minutes ago, ruizaio said:

@Adnana I have decided to bring up synopsis stuff only after the relevant timing passes in the aired episodes and if deviates much from the actual episodes. So I'm just going to keep my fingers zipped up about this issue.

ruizaio,

Hahaha. I suppose it's a good thing that, if I and fellow spoiler-hunters lack the self-restraint to keep from fishing for clues, you possess the self-restraint to keep your lips... ah, your fingers zipped. And by good thing, I mean of course, "as expected, just my cra**y luck", lol.

Really, it's fortunate for my sanity that I only live-watch at most 2 dramas per year. It's not that I need plot spoilers as such, but that I need a series of assurances that only a complete drama can provide, before I start watching. Like the assurance of a HEA. I don't even know how I ended up live-watching (and obsessing over) a drama about which the only sure thing is its tragic ending. Must be the power of LJG's Wang So. Sigh.

[WeunXK]

 

 http://www.hk01.com/韓迷/44871/-步步驚心-麗-IU送毒酒李準基飲到噴血-第十集預告愛哭慎入

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korean ver.

chinese ver.

 

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[littleloony]

Anyeong eclipses.....I have just finished back reading 40 pages but I am still behind by 44 pages to be exact I am planning to go through all of them cause I seem to have developed Wang So like dedication to this thread! Let me take a moment to appreciate and acknowledge all the awesome insights, recaps, stills, mvs, translations and news that everyone is contributing here result---page numbers going at the speed of light but seriously I hope the drama continues to be this good if not better so that the thread never looses steam \^0^/

As I was reading, I was specially taken with the whole mythical aspect of the formation of Goryeo---daughter of the water GOD falling in love to choose the founder. Thank you so much @brielover for that and @bebebisous33 chingu for elaborating on the symbolism displayed. Btw thanks a lot for tagging me on your posts.....they are very interesting reads and are shaping my theories as well Now since I found this mythical aspect so interesting I kept thinking about all the instances in the drama that so far seem to be following the lead of the myth and I came up with a sort of narrative for the events that I want to share with you all. I don't know whether the writer consciously included all these symbolism or not but thinking in this respect just made me feel that SHR became grander than I had initially thought. So here goes-

SHR may be thought of as that epic where there is Goryeo- a kingdom just newly created by the will of the Heavens and it requires a keeper who will consolidate and stabilize it to make it the most powerful nation of its time. For that to happen a keeper needs to be chosen- not just anyone but only the One who is the most suitable to be able to give proper shape to the nation. So begins a quest and the key to making this choice or the key to Goryeo is represented by Hae Su.

Hajin as Hae Su represents the key to the kingdom of Goryeo and it is her heart that is going to choose the keeper. She is on a quest to find that person who will irrevocably own her heart. She originally finds herself in Goryeo with already a suitable candidate at hand.....Wang Wook. Wook is learned, gentle, caring and responsible. The framework for an ideal man is already presented to her at the outset and it is no wonder that she gets drawn to him and literally hands him her trust.

Spoiler

Given time that attraction may turn to love if there are no other variables in the equation. It would also seem that the Heavens also want Wook to be a candidate because he is backed by the powerful clan- Haes; he has faced some hardship in life because he had been exiled from the privilege and protection of the court before so he may have experience in survival; his family is ambitious and has seen to it that he becomes knowledgeable about the court and diplomatic in pursuance of a seat of power. We get to see his diplomatic skills quite early when he saved his own and his brothers' necks when the king had asked about the abdication of Wang Mu and also when he saved Wang So after that temple massacre.

Spoiler

 

 

However the heavens are whimsical, they throw in a variable to this linear path of Hae Su and Wang Wook named Wang So.

     

From the first instance that she meets him, Hae Su is awestruck. The powerful and dangerous man literally sweeps her off her feet and I think her heart must have felt the first inkling that it is going to be a losing battle to keep from reaching out to him. She also kind of unconsciously starts to develop So into the kind of person that will make a worthy king and keeper of Goryeo, from the very first time. She gets thrown from the horse and lectures him, indignant to get an apology.....a lesson for him in respecting and valuing others as humans. After the tussle with Eun she keeps at him for that apology. If I were to list down all the instances that Hae Su initiated contact with So and couldn't help her heart but reach out to him it would be a long one. I'll just touch the important instances-

When she follows So into the woods on the heels of the assassins and nearly got herself killed.

Spoiler

She clearly experienced the ruthless and relentless side of Wang So and yet she reaches out to him again when he needs saving from himself as he is destroying those stone altars after being cut down by mother's words just as he had slashed those monks.

Spoiler

Again she can't help but sit down with the lonely So to give accompany him as he finishes his meal. Given how much she had been roughed up by So, her only course should have been to leave him alone, but that is exactly what she can't do.

She realises that at a fundamental level she is not afraid of So's wild ways, his evident dangerous personality and begins to seek him out and change his future in subtle ways by warming his heart. She begins a friendship with him commenting on his improved looks as he begins to stay at Songhak, on feeling alone because she had him at the palace when she enters the damiwon, talking about workplace woes and internalizing his given advices

Spoiler

 Her idea of So improves so much that she declares him to be an honorable man who never goes back on his promises at Eun's birthday present unveiling event. She may not be aware of it but definitely realises the absolute commitment that she only has seen is So till date and not in any other man. If she were to give her heart and thus the key to Goryeo to any man then wouldn't he have to be absolutely committed to taking care of it. So gradually here emerges the other contender for her heart.

Despite being told never to show him her face, Su keeps reaching out to So, first by asking Baek ah for help, then by doing the ultimate favor for him by concealing So's scar. Here again the Heavens seem to have provided her with a guide for Baek ah will only ever point her to Wang So. When she first takes off the mask and touches his scar gently its feels like she is utterly fascinated. She caresses that scar and looks lost in feeling it beneath her fingertips like she is under a spell and she would have gone on caressing had So not caught her hand and brought her back to reality. Even when she has had lots of little moments with Wook, I have never seen her completely loose herself in looking at him.....that has only happened with So.....like she can't help herself. If that is not the start to falling irrevocably in love then I don't know what is.

But can you actually choose the keeper of Goryeo just like that without having any trials and proper evaluation to see if he is truly capable? How will Hae Su realise that the pull that feels for Wang So is of the eternal kind. Enter the visions. I believe they are both a test and preparation for both Su and Wang So inorder for them to know their hearts and roles in each others' lives. Su needs to know and process the noble and ruthless sides of Wang So for her to consciously commit her heart to him and guide him to being the king of Goryeo. So needs to overcome her fears to prove that he truly deserves her heart and Goryeo as well.

Now if observe the other face of the story, it is actually the quest of two worthy men to find out their places in their lives. On the one hand is Wook- prepared in some measure by the heavens to be a worthy rival to So but hampered but his own nature to never outrival him. He could have had Su's heart in all this time had he made a committed effort but he wasted  those opportunities, safe in his complacency that she will always be his by default. I do think it is only now that he will begin in earnest his own journey for Goryeo and Su's heart.

On the other hand is Wang So- the wild card who if you look closely then he has been prepared to be the worthy candidate and keeper from an early age by the heavens. He has mastered survival like no one else, has gained experience in the cutthroat world that is going to come in handy during all those coups and assassinations, has a keen mind that can be quite an asset in the court.....for example just before the drawing of the lots for the rain prayers he was the one to explain the strategy behind bringing successful rain, the same thing that his mother, Queen Yu later says to Wang Yo when asking him to seize the opportunity to gain favor from the king. So is a doer, but not a reckless one.....he can swiftly evaluate a situation and then decide to act on the best course of action----like when he went armed with valuable information to persuade the king to give up on marrying Su. Plus he has the help of Jimong who has been guiding his path from the sidelines for a very long time and will now guide Su towards So. He has an ally in Baek ah, he has a great teacher in General Park, his loyalty has won him the support of Wang Mu, his perseverance has won him the affection and support of the King and he comes from the Yu clan who will probably support his claim to power in their own interest w2hen the time comes. Lastly So had himself declared that he belonged to Hae Su and thus to Goryeo during the make up sequence before claiming her as his, the one he will never let go. If you think about it, never relinquishing  and to always be responsible for another person is actually the biggest promise one can make and Wang So has willingly promised himself to Su and embraced her responsibility. He is thus ready to also be the king of Goryeo.

However, to prepare him for that he has to undertake a journey with Su as his key and guide overcoming obstacles so that when he does sit on that throne he is worthy of it and capable of managing it. 

Okay so that's how I have chalked up the story till now in terms of the myth and how I see the future episodes playing out.

If anyone actually manages to read till the last you have my heartfelt gratitude

 

 

[blue003]

3 hours ago, pujajain said:

 

While Queen Yoo might not be aware of the relationship, Yeon Hwa has some hints and everyone has some understanding on how So feels about Soo.

As for poison, I don't think they need to kill CP, just establish he is not worthy and force king to declare an alternative as CP. My guess is the poison would either killed or made CP sick. CP's skin sickness would have weakened his immune system and constitution making him more vulnerable to poison than So who was healthy and probably had one of the best constitutions amongst the princes given his harsh life. It impacts him but does not kill him.

I have a feeling that when So cools down, he insists on taking So to the beach and give her the gift he got. Soo goes despite her apprehension and reluctantly. WW and Jung sees them return together and sees a quiet/unhappy Soo on horse and assumes that So is pressuring her into a relationship. He decides to go and ask the king to be allowed to married to her at the right opportunity much to the frustration of Yeon Hwa. He conveys the same to Soo when he sees her later but instead of her usual exuberance, she is withdrawn which worries WW and makes him feel powerless and insecure. Meanwhile Yeon Hwa (historically she was very knowledgeable about poisons) joins hands with the queen to get Soo out of the way. It serves multiple purposes, harm CP, nip Wook-Soo marriage dream in bud, remind So as to who holds the power in palace and deliver a major emotional set-back to him. 

Meanwhile WW forms an alliance with Yo and they try to take out So. The attempt does not succeed but warns So. He confronts his mother who tells him about her plot and challenges him to stop her. So is shocked next day to see the maid in plot is Soo. He does the only thing he can, he drinks the poison to save the CP and at the very least save Soo's life.

Soo is punished and tortured while everyone looks on helpless since speaking on her behalf implicates them. So is recovering all this time. Eventually lady Oh takes the blame on herself and we have Soo begging for mercy in rain while So supports her.

What is interesting to me is -

1)Everyone knows and understands that lady Oh and Soo had no interest in harming the CP and they have had many opportunities to do this past if they wanted to. Odds are that everyone understands who the conspirators are but still innocents are punished to maintain appearances. 

2)Does Wook ever realize the role his sister played in the conspiracy and how does he react to it?

3)So would have managed to win even more of king and CP's favor than ever before after his sacrifice, in someways this incident would change the dynamics in the palace completely.

4)Does Soo ever realize how Wook household is involved in this conspiracy that results in almost death for So, her torture and lady Oh getting entangled in the plot? What is her reaction to it?

 

Thats a very good summary that you have written...

 

Just a few comments on my end

 

1. That's how the palace worked and which is exactly what everyone but HS was pointing out. Without support and a royal backing, you cannot survive in the palace. Remember what happened in the earlier episodes? The king knew that the queen was behind the earlier assassination plot but still he is choosing to keep a blind eye or rather keep your enemies closer approach.

2. He may have not known it earlier but he definitely would know it later on. But by then...

3. To a certain extent, yes WS would have gathered support but then again if he rescues HS, how will the king be happy with him? Isn't that going against the all mighty King?

4. Bingo. That has to be the breaking point for her. Plus the part where WW keeps not delivering his promise to save her would be the tie breaker. 

[zenya22]

2 hours ago, briseis said:

I think that’s basically one of the core messages and morals of the novel -INFORMATION IS POWERFUL AND DANGEROUS, BUT THAT DOESN’T MEAN THAT’S THE COMPLETE TRUTH. KNOWLEDGE OF THE PAST, NO MATTER HOW VAST OR LIMITED IT IS, DOESN’T GIVE ANYONE THE RIGHT TO JUDGE OTHERS. One of the reasons why SO fell in love with HS is because she never judged him, no matter how damning the circumstances where, no matter how much literal blood was on his hands - but now she is judging and condemning him for crimes he didn’t commit WITHOUT GIVING HIM THE OPPORTUNITY TO DEFEND HIMSELF. This is Hae Soo’s biggest crime and she will realize it soon, unfortunately it’s already done AND SHE WILL LOSE HIM FOR IT.

@briseissorry to cut your post but thank you for your post. I do agree with your analysis of Hae Soo's reaction and her knowledge or lack of knowledge of history. It seems she does not know much about her history or about the history of the country of her ancestry centuries down the line. She travelled far from her present which was the 21st century to the past of the thousand + years ago. From where she came from exists the superspeed information highway and everyone who wanted information on anyone at least their general history would have used that highway for information. It seems all she knew is about the 4th was what she imagined that he killed many people. Even if she did study history all information is subjective especially if one is so unfamiliar with the land, the people, the time and the mores of that time. It seems she had no information at all about how the 4th became the emperor of Goryeo and his ruling. He ruled longer than his brothers and I think longer than even his father the founder of the dynasty. He did not go into a killing spree once he became king. So is already witnessing how his brothers and even his mother and family battle for the throne as he was asked to kill the CP by his own mother who wants to put his older brother on the throne. Struggle for the throne between  brothers and clans is not something new that just happened when So became king. The first years of So's rule were spent in study of other kingdoms on how to rule and establish governance. He actually had a plan and consolidated his power base in the early years of his rule and he stabilized the ruling of the country and maintained diplomatic relationships with other countries. As you mentioned he also emancipated slaves and established civil service exams that included common people to recruit officials by merit and give everyone equal opportunity of serve as officials of the government and not just given to the rich and powerful clans. So, Hae Soo just responding to her imagery and not questioning the validity of her historical knowledge of this time period and instead judging So based on what she thinks she knows could be troublesome for her  and yes she might just change history in a big way by giving false hopes to the wrong person such as Wookie. Does she ever think that instead of preventing the killing (as if she can) that she might instead cause the tragedies she is afraid will happen if she decides to meddle? 

[Diana Blanche]

30 minutes ago, pigsflyy said:

 

I just want to add to your discussion.

Do you think Hae Soo is extra afraid of Wang So, because she can see that he is capable of killing many. She saw him in his breakdown when he was all bloody and confessed to her that he killed many.

I agree that Wang So delivers on his promises more with action than Wang Wook. But I also noted that many of the things that he did for Hae Soo like confronting his mother after she interrogated Hae Soo was done behind the scene. Hae Soo is not aware of the many things Wang So has done with her.

Before Wang So realized his feelings for her, they had a friendly relationship, but he was also more gruff with her, and threatened her multiple of times. He never expressed romantic interest until the make up scene, which made her freeze from shock.

I think Hae Soo is as of now only romantically focused on Wang Wook still. So she would be more concerned for Wook's safety and the other princes if anything were to threaten them. Wang So happens to be threat according to her vision, and that scares the hell out of her, because her actions with the make up gave him the opportunity to be the king, so she feels responsible.

Just my take.

 

Let's assume that Hae Soo doesn't know anything about GJ. Would she have had that terrible vision? Would she have felt responsible? No. The truth is that Wang So didn't do anything wrong to her on the contrary, he was always by her side. He didn't do anything to enforce her belief that he will become a cruel king.

And yes, she didn't know what he had done for her.

I pointed that out in one of my previeous post

She never was afraid of him even when she saw him soaked in blood knowing what he did.

[briseis]

“Kill the Crown Prince. It won’t be the first time you take a life for me. Will you do it?” 

TALK ABOUT SYMBOLISM AND CRAPPY, DYSFUNCTIONAL FAMILY DINNERS! In the very episode where Hae Soo sees in her vision So killing his younger brother and accusses him of murdering his siblings in the future, HE REFUSES TO COMMIT FRATRICIDE, TO KILL HIS OLDEST BROTHER! AND THERE IS NOT EVEN A SECOND OF HESITATION ON HIS PART WHAT TO DO, NO DOUBT AT ALL!

It shows HOW STRONG HIS MORAL COMPASS MUST BE - that he knows what is right and what is wrong. It’s definitely not a mere coincidence. These two scenes are in such a STARK CONTRAST - just like HS’s idea that So’s will become a cold-blooded killer and what he is in reality really like.

His choice NOT TO KILL THE CROWN PRINCE is even more significant because his mother was luring him with the fantasy that she would accept him as her son; but he recognizes immediately that she is just playing him, offering him some leftovers of quasi-love, treating him like some loyal lap dog, just wanting to use him as a killing machine because that’s all she sees him as. It hurts him and though it’s clear he doesn’t vie for the throne just yet, he is smart enough to use this opportunity to test and goad Yo and his mother, using the fact that his worth in the world has gone up - and that fact it makes them this angry is like a small victory for him.

But the fact remains, that this hellish family dinner, probably the first one he’s had with them in 15 years, leaves him utterly heartbroken - when he gets far away, he collapses both physically and emotionally, admonishing himself for FOOLISHLY HOPING YET AGAIN THEY WOULD LOVE HIM.

[pigsflyy]

2 minutes ago, Diana Blanche said:

Let's assume that Hae Soo doesn't know anything about GJ. Would she have had that terrible vision? Would she have felt responsible? No. The truth is that Wang So didn't do anything wrong to her on the contrary, he was always by her side. He didn't do anything to enforce her belief that he will become a cruel king.

And yes, she didn't know what he had done for her.

I pointed that out in one of my previeous post

She never was afraid of him even when she saw him soaked in blood knowing what he did.

Lol I don't know what would happen if Hae Soo had no knowledge about GJ, or whether that would affect her visions. I think it would totally change the plot line and be a different story. I'll concentrate this storyline so far where she does have hazy history knowledge, have her scary visions, and does feel like she has some responsibility.

I agree that Hae Soo have seen the good points in Wang So when he was at his worse. Although she knows his good points, I wouldn't say that she knows everything about him to make a concrete decision. I think she wants to believe the best of him, but her fear of what could happen to her loved ones may make her question what Wang So is really capable of. 

I wouldn't say Hae Soo never feared Wang So (she seems scared of him in the beginning episodes), but she chose to see his good points. The fear of being wrong in your judgement of someone causing the demise of others you care for is what I think Hae Soo is currently feeling.

Both Wang So and Hae Soo are currently acting on emotions. I want to see how they resolve this issue and make their relationship grow.