[Drama 2019] When the Camellia Blooms, 동백꽃 필무렵

chibiusa · October 23, 2019

1ouise · October 23, 2019

I'm hard to convince, I guess, because I still don't believe Heung-sik is Joker.

The clues for him are too obvious.

This is only episode 11.

HM called the man in the alley "Ahjussi."

The cat food HS is holding is NOT (link) triangle-shaped like the one YS touched.

This wouldn't be a "heart-warming" drama, if their friend HS is trying to kill them.

And, I'm so stubborn that I won't believe Hyang-mi is dead until all the discrepancies between names, birth dates, IDs, and bodies are cleared up.

I hope it's great writing, and not lazy producing, that makes everything so tricky to figure out.

Latte_Anyday · October 23, 2019

So we finally have a face on the Joker, although is it really him or just a red herring..??

Dong Baek's mom is a total weirdo! At times she appears completely off the rails, while on others she seem lucid enough what's her deal LoL?! Looks like it's goin' to be glossed over which is typical within K-Drama Land I mean she had the awareness to doll herself up for her grandson's baseball game, and she addressed herself as Dong Baek's mom to Yong Shik's mom OY IDK anymore tbh. What's her obsession with Madonna LMFAo btw!?

Aw~poor Jessica - NOT typical of gold diggers, Jong Ryeol was just a meal ticket. Though you'd think she would've been smart enough to have a backup plan but nope. And yet she threatens divorce? Sheesh what a joke (I'm not the Joker)

Again Yong Shik comes through The way he came to defend Pil Goo was beyond awesome Dong Baek just marry him already! So she & Hyang Mi have a connection from childhood (another familiar trope) though Dong Baek has no recollection of it. This drama shows how parenting affects a child's perception. If the adult instilled respect & acceptance as well as kindness to their kids, maybe..just maybe Dong Baek, Hyang Mi won't have to face so much discrimination etc. It's funny 'cause South Korea is pushing their culture, history, K-Pop globally but they themselves aren't open to diversity. I know I digress but it's so ironic The recent sad news of yet another tragic fallen K-Pop celebrity shows nothing has changed in mindset of South Koreans

Another thing I notice in K-Dramas, this one included as well they sure love yelling

bedifferent · October 24, 2019

This drama apparently is one darling of a drama with SK viewers at the moment. New high.

E 21/22 = 12.9%/16.9%

irekatcas · October 24, 2019

17 hours ago, 1ouise said:

What do we learn from this??

... more discrepancies with names, dates, numbers

Choi Hye Hoon in Copenhagen

820,000 KRW

Reveal hidden contents

She is sending money to her little brother from what is showing up on naver.

Edited October 24, 2019 by Jillia
Please do not quote pics! Thanks! :)

chickfactor · October 24, 2019

17 hours ago, 1ouise said:

What do we learn from this??

... more discrepancies with names, dates, numbers

Choi Hye Hoon in Copenhagen

820,000 KRW

I can't see it too clearly, but it looks like Choi Hye Hoon is a "beneficiary." So she's sending money to... her brother who is in Copenhagen?

My guess is that Heung-Sik is the Joker because this show actually doesn't play tricks. They made it pretty clear that Hyang-Mi is the murder victim a while ago. So it just feels... I don't know, like they're not going to come up with someone else out of the blue to be the Joker.

Like, it's not so much a murder mystery, but WHY IS HE DOING THIS? I feel like they'll take some time telling that story.

Anyway, I'm sad. I thought it was Hyang-Mi, but having it confirmed was just... oof. Obviously I'll feel sorry for anyone who ends up being a murder victim, but we got to know her, and she's really had a sad, tough life. The revelation that she was the fellow outcast along with DB when they were kids... oof. Wow.

11 hours ago, Latte_Anyday said:

This drama shows how parenting affects a child's perception. If the adult instilled respect & acceptance as well as kindness to their kids, maybe..just maybe Dong Baek, Hyang Mi won't have to face so much discrimination etc. It's funny 'cause South Korea is pushing their culture, history, K-Pop globally but they themselves aren't open to diversity. I know I digress but it's so ironic The recent sad news of yet another tragic fallen K-Pop celebrity shows nothing has changed in mindset of South Koreans

I had the same thought. I was so mad watching those moms rip apart DB and HM. People need to stop being so judgmental of others.

I loved YS rescuing PG at the baseball game. He puts his sunglasses on, then he is Kang Haneul. He takes them off, he's back to being Yong-Shik. Awesome trick.

I kind of love that Jessica is showing some depth, finally. She has feelings, people! She and JR will reconcile.

Love love LOVE Ja-Yeong. Keep on kicking butt, please. (please don't be the Joker)

Edited October 24, 2019 by Jillia
Please do not quote pics! Thanks! :)

40somethingahjumma · October 24, 2019

Fantastic show that just keeps getting better. The confidence of every episode is obvious in the unfolding. Wasn't the title of this episode wonderfully used here? Not just once or twice but three times. "The hero shows up at the 11th hour". Love it.

This show is increasingly giving me Prison Playbook feels. It's almost as brilliantly and beautifully written. Almost because we're only half way through. Of course the storylines and premise are very different but the non-linear storytelling and the excellent use of ensemble cast is just as good. And there's baseball... Heh. I don't think I have laughed this much watching a drama in a while since PP most probably. I was absolutely killing myself... I was in stitches over the baseball game and swooning over Yong-shik. He's no Monk or a Columbo to be sure but our boy really knows how to romance DB and PG. Suavely swaggering onto the diamond with his sunglasses and the expensive drone. Dear God... that was pure gold.

I think the show affirms that PG needs a father figure and I also get the feeling that it's saying that JR doesn't have to be the one. In some ways YS relates to PG much better in light of his own upbringing. The drone incident shows how much YS was able to empower PG (for want of a better word) and allow him the freedom to take control of the situation in front of his friends. Once again we see that YS is someone who builds people around him up sensitively because it's the other person that he's thinking of first and foremost. No one is entirely self-sacrificing (I'm not that idealistic to think that) but YS is motivated by love... and it shows.

I am glad to get a bit of reprieve from JR in this most recent episode. There was a little bit too much of him charging around last week and rubbing people the wrong way. At this rate he's going to crash and burn. Too much testosterone and not enough thinking going on.

Detective work by neighbourhood ajummas is also another gem. What better way for a budding detective to investigate than to chin-wag with the local grapevine. I have to agree with them about No Gyu Tae. He is many things... but he doesn't have the guts to kill anyone or smart enough to cover his tracks. Plus he's too visible. He can't even handle his extra-marital whatever-you-call-it with any kind of elegance. It's embarrassing to see a grown man do so badly.

But I have hope for Detective Officer Yong-shik because his persistence will rule the day. Even if he's slow to put the pieces together, he is on the right track and already he is probably doing better than his predecessors.

When I look at JR and Jessica vs Ja Yeong and Gyu Tae it really does beg the question as to why some people get married to begin with. I imagine that's why the respective couples were being juxtaposed there at the end.They are such obvious mismatches... at least on the surface. Did JY marry GT just because he amused her? Is that it? There must have been more surely. A highly intelligent career woman like herself could have had her pick of really smart men in the Big Smoke. Besides, she seemed genuinely hurt by the whole thing. Like she really really cares about the brown-nosing silly man she married. I also believe that he actually cares about her... despite all the clumsy attempts at sexual harassment. Mother obviously fed and propped up the beast. But he's all grown up now and he has to stop playing "I need attention". Apparently opposites do attract but the trick is how they stay together for the long run.

With regards to JR and Jessica... I dunno... what does she really want out of that marriage? Again Mother is clearly an insidious influence but again I'm not that sure Jessica married entirely for money or the optics. She doesn't really want the divorce but then I'm not entirely sure why she doesn't want the divorce. Evidently she bought into the fantasy of being the wife of a baseball star and enjoyed the currency that brought her. She revelled in it and then got carried away thinking she could get away with murder. She is so obviously immature and one has to wonder why JR married her. She doesn't seem to have brought much to the partnership in terms of wealth or status. He's the one with the status and the wealth. Was she merely an over pampered trophy wife?

I'm not entirely convinced that divorce is on the cards for this mob. I don't exactly know what the future holds for them. I would really like JY and GT to work things out because they seem to care about each other underneath all the posturing and ridiculous lack of authentic communication. For them at least divorce doesn't have to be inevitable.

My biggest concern of course isn't for JR or Jessica but for DB, YS and PG. If tomorrow's previews are to be believed, my worst fears will be realised. JR's idiocy and thoughtlessness will cause problems for all of them. Honestly, the man should just get the *beep* out of their lives.

It was good to get Hyang Mi's story, sordid though it was. If the show's going to make her the Joker's latest victim, I'd really like to know why. Not surprisingly she's gotten into bed with some really dodgy company. She's on the run as surmised. But she was always light-fingered. A pitiful character and I really don't understand the prejudice against orphans as if it were their fault. There was no one to steer her on the straight and narrow but then it probably became easier to just default to whatever came naturally. What especially impressed me about the telling of HM's backstory is we get to see how much DB has grown. Knowing what she was like before YS's entry into her world, it's even more impressive that she stood up to the menacing thug in the verbal exchange and then proceeded to cudgel him over the head with what was available.

My original thought that the Joker sees himself as DB's protector is probably right and in light of recent revelations, it makes sense why HM would fall prey to his proclivities.

Josh Marquez · October 24, 2019

Watching this show proves that south korea has still a long way to go, it’s sad that they treat those kids harshly just because one is orphan while the other one is the daughter of bar owner like so what?! South korea is superior when it comes to their entertainment industry but they still lack compassion and understanding (still very close minded country). Anyway i feel bad for HM, even though she’s questionable at times she don’t deserve to die. From the earlier episode, I’ve always knew that HS is the joker it’s pretty obvious.

lollyminx · October 24, 2019

5 hours ago, Latte_Anyday said:

So we finally have a face on the Joker, although is it really him or just a red herring..??

@1ouise also has doubts and I agree. It's still too early in the series to be sure it's Heung-sik. Heung-sik appearing at that exact moment with the cat food appears like a set-up and if the previous episodes are any indication, the writer loves toying with us and throwing suspicion at different people.

1 hour ago, 40somethingahjumma said:

and the excellent use of ensemble cast is just as good.

I agree. The writer and director did a good job creating a neighborhood or community that makes the story believable. "Excellent use of ensemble cast" - I was thinking of this when Yong-sik went to the realtor to ask questions about the old building that burned down and when Yong-sik was talking to the ahjummas. He's going around talking to people, not just the main cast, and it feels like a real neighborhood that exists somewhere.

ktcjdrama · October 24, 2019

Ep.11 is just awesome!

And many of the guesses here are right, about the dead body, the cat feeder...

I too love that we're finally seeing progress in the relationship between JR and Jessica, as well as Noh and JY. This drama has a unique way of story-telling and I'm loving it!

@1ouise how do you know the cat food is round vs.triangle?

Isache · October 24, 2019

19 hours ago, bebebisous33 said:

@milkypeony Me and other users have already pointed out that HS is a suspect. I had even underlined that the tool used to kill the last victim was in HS's shop.

Annyeong, I'm a fan of this drama and like all, I'm dying of the suspense as to who the killer is. Thus, I decided to check out this site for updates. After last night episode, pls allow me to share my guess. I'm pretty sure the killer isn't HS (Heung-Sik aka the CCTV installation guy). This is because Hyang Mi called the guy in the dark alley "Ahjussi". As we all know, this is term used to address someone who is an elderly and HS seems younger than Hyang Mi. My guess is this elderly guy named "Han Tae Hee". Reasons being:

1) The dry chillies was next to Hyang Mi when she was led to the room by the "Joker". And we know the guy that offers her the accommodation is Joker because of the burnt mark under the table. In ep 1, we saw him sunning the same dry chillies in the alley and it was run over by a bicycle when Dong Baek first moved in.

2) In ep 8, Dongbaek refused to close her shop after the wall scrawling as an act of defiance as she believed that "Joker" will be checking her out soon to see her reaction to it. And later, we were brought to the scene where a group of patrons were gathering around the newly installed CCTV, one of them was Han Tae Hee.

3) In ep 8, he was one of the guys in captured in the CCTV video footage which Yong-sik was studying. According to Captain Byun, the Joker must have saw the CCTV being installed and he would have been one of those in the video.

4) In ep 9, Dongbaek flashed back to the time where she first started and the first two customers that came in are Han Tae Hee and Song Jin Bae. That scene somewhat felt that there were more to it than just two ordinary patrons. I believe the "Joker" wanted to check out Dongbaek after learning of her identity from the press (after his last killing) just like he came to check out Dongbaek's reaction after scrawling on her wall.

5) Lastly, Han Tae Hee fits the term "Ahjussi".

Edited October 24, 2019 by Jillia
Please do not quote pics! Thanks! :)

lollyminx · October 24, 2019

2 hours ago, Isache said:

Han Tae Hee fits the term "Ahjussi".

I'm not familiar with the neighborhood ahjussis. Is Han Tae Hee someone's husband?

It could also be that Heung-sik's refilling the cat food, but he's not the one putting pesticide on the bowls? Maybe?

milkypeony · October 24, 2019

19 hours ago, bebebisous33 said:

@milkypeony Me and other users have already pointed out that HS is a suspect. I had even underlined that the tool used to kill the last victim was in HS's shop.

oops! im so sorry for not checking

7 hours ago, 40somethingahjumma said:

Detective work by neighbourhood ajummas is also another gem. What better way for a budding detective to investigate than to chin-wag with the local grapevine.

yes yes yes this scene was amazing!!! i love how the characters are being developed in the story, and these women are not just background dwellers but are helping to build up the whole atmosphere of the drama. the ladies feeding yong shik and casually chatting with him about his investigation made the whole scene so sweet and real. this show is sooooo good.

2 hours ago, Isache said:

I'm pretty sure the killer isn't HS (Heung-Sik aka the CCTV installation guy). This is because Hyang Mi called the guy in the dark alley "Ahjussi"

this really threw me off too! in episode 3 (or 5-6, depending on what you prefer), when HS is repairing the sink, hyang mi calls him 'heungsik-ie', and not ajusshi. it cant be that she'd call him ajusshi out of the blue so probably that writes HS off as being the joker. then them showing HS blatantly at the end of ep 11 (or 21-22) in such an obvious set up probably proves it's not him. lol. guess i was mistaken hahah

this has got to be the best episode so far! the characters are developing so beautifully (i still can't stand jong ryeol tho lmao) ~~and i love yong sik so much he's a total dreamboat~~

Edited October 24, 2019 by Jillia
Please do not quote pics! Thanks! :)

milkypeony · October 24, 2019

On 10/23/2019 at 2:46 PM, chickfactor said:

@milkypeony I didn't realize you posted the same theory! Great minds think alike I say. Hee hee.

heheh yes! you explained it so much better though hahahah

Latte_Anyday · October 24, 2019

@40somethingahjumma

Isn't it obvious that Jessica just uses Jong Ryeol for clout? Remember her get-together with the other baseball wives in an earlier ep.? After snapping the perfunctory selfie, she goes back to fiddling with her phone without interacting with the other women. She's there (marriage) solely for notoriety purposes & of course its benefits. When her horrible mom told her to rethink her divorce due to her not bein' able to parent her own child financially, it's even more obvious why Jessica married Jong Ryeol. And because it's South Korea, where appearances are EVERYTHING, it'd reflect poorly on her as a single divorced mom. Look how Dong Baek has to put up with it so far. I suspect she trapped him into a shotgun marriage as is the case even in actual Korean celebs.

Lawyer Hong married Mr. Noh solely for the fact he was naive & she liked how he was an open book, someone with no pretenses etc. Which I presume she's quite tired of, she has enough of it in her line of work LoL. I also notice this in life as well.. that strong, smart women normally intimidate men so the only ones who would "submit" to them were the introverted, gentle, sensitive types. Basically they (the men) were easier to control for the women (just my observation) I gather the reverse is true as well. Maybe that's why Jong Ryeol married Jessica, he thought she was a floozy but boy did he get a troublesome one LoL. And probably that's why it bothers him so much that Dong Baek is doin' absolutely fine on her own without him. It KILLS him as he always thought Dong Baek was too weak to do anything. Guess what? Jong Ryeol - Wrong again buddy.

I truly wished there're more moms like Dong Baek. That scene where she embraced Hyang Mi with open arms was so moving to me. And on top of that, lil Pil Goo was willing to share his portion of a meal with a woman he just met. That alone is testament enough to the sort of person Dong Baek is. And despite she gets slandered she chooses to raise her son with good values.

irekatcas · October 24, 2019

5 hours ago, Isache said:

5) Lastly, Han Tae Hee fits the term "Ahjussi".

I think you're right. Hyangmi talks about Copenhagen causally to Joker in the alleyway, like he knew she wants to go there. Since she seems to only talk about it with the people she is blackmailing money from, he fits that description. In Ep 2 she had scammed him one thousand dollars and that's when the wife found out and went off on her in the streets lol.

Whisper2 · October 24, 2019

I was browsing for drones right before i watched ep 11.. i swear when YS appeared in the field with the drone it really felt like a dream package for me.. he was sooo cool

I have some questions though:

- why does HyangMi address DongBaek as "unnie" when both of them are born in 1986? Is there a need to fake the age even if she wants to fake her identity?

- why does the cat food cause allergic reaction to YongSik similar to pesticides found in YeongSim's farm? I felt like the deliberately makes YongSik overlook an important clue (by not visiting YeongSim), only to reveal it as an important key to the mystery later

By the way, is it me or does YongSik looks quite different with Kang Ha Neul in real life? Not the fashion, but facial features (deeper laugh lines, maybe one or two tones darker) . Makeup perhaps to look more matured?

Edited October 24, 2019 by Whisper2

Cosmo-Girl · October 24, 2019

I know you all don't think Heung Shik is the killer for various valid reasons. I have my own reason for not suspecting him. He is feeding Royal Canin Mother & Baby Cat food (Royal Canin is not sponsoring this drama, right?) which is quite expensive compared to other cat foods. I don't think a killer would spend that much on stray cats (especially considering that he is killing cats). I think Heung Sik loves cats and wants to feed them but someone else is adding pesticide to the food.

Yeong Sim supposedly had the same burns as Yong Shik. I'm assuming Yeong Sim is actually a grandma, so what if it is her adult son or grandson who is adding pesticides to the cat food?

I really feel bad for Hyang Mi. Though she had a despicable character, her flashback says why she turned up this way. Considering most serial killers are usually bullied, neglected, abandoned, or abused in childhood, she seems to be wanting to lead a respectful life but desperate financial need calls for desperate measures (though that's the reason I suspected her to be the killer).

Could it be that Hyang Mi was actually killed by the pimp rather than the Joker?

@Isache Yeah, it could be him. Serial killers usually want others to fear and respect them as they are dominated and suppressed by others at home. In Ongsan, it's the women who rule and he seems to be a hen-pecked husband.