[Mainland Chinese Drama 2019] Heavenly Sword Dragon Slaying Saber 倚天屠龙记

[LaurenPanna]

1 hour ago, bluesky888 said:

last year version was awful.  the cast is not that great. I don't mind they make another one with Joseph & Yukee.

 

Agree, last year version i can't bear to watch at all. Totally out of the novel, doesn't even retain the essence 

 

I was also hoping the movie version of LOCH can star Joseph and Yukee as Guo Jing Huang Rong

They would be pretty good at it too! 

 

Both Ren ying ying and huang rong are smart ladies like ZM, Yukee will sure perform! Same for Joseph 

3 hours ago, Yitian_fan said:

 

 

Edit 2: Can you imagine? If you were an actor/actress and had always loved an OTP from a book, and one day you were offered the chance to act as one of the OTP in a huge production?  A dream come true! (The ultimate fan fantasy!)

 

 

 

I know that feeling!! 

I love huang rong so much that i ever cosplay as her once. Now i need to consider cosplaying ZM! 

 

Do you think, we as Fans /shippers, can write a petition to request this director to cast both of them in new version SPW? 

 

[LaurenPanna]

Someone mentioned that you want to download that video. 

 

I manage to download from weibo and I have uploaded to YouTube 

 

This is my link. 

 

 

 

[40somethingahjumma]

I suppose that if I thought the romance was the primary goal of this story then I can see how WJ might appear to be an unworthy fellow. Except that a) I don't think romance is the main driver of the plot and b) I don't think of love within the category of something that is earned.

 

I can't say if WJ is undeserving of ZM... I imagine that's for her to decide ultimately.

 

My view is that for WJ romance is largely a complication in what would otherwise be a straightforward trajectory. It's true that in this version they dwell far more heavily on the melodrama than in previous ones making the WJ-ZM star-crossed theme far more of an issue in how the rebellion and overthrow plays out. Rather than taking the easy way out, I think the show takes a far more circuitous... more painfully realistic route. It isn't just a cross-cultural relationship gone awry... there are so many issues that this version surprisingly doesn't skirt... the xenophobia, conflicts of interests, the cost of war, the dark side of brotherhood.

 

Speaking of earning one's stripes, I'm more inclined to think that this adaptation makes WJ earn his right to walk away more than any other. His patriotism stripped everything away from him including the woman he loved. He paid such a high price for the war against the Mongolian overlords. And yes it was war make no mistake even if the budget makes it look like some local skirmish. What's that old adage: "all's fair in love and war".

 

Besides, didn't JY write three different endings for YTTLJ at various points in time depending how the pendulum was swinging in his state of mind... yeah... I don't think writers should be allowed to diddle around a published piece of fiction either.  But since he set a precedence... I can't blame the director or writer for following suit.

[bluesky888]

19 minutes ago, LaurenPanna said:

Someone mentioned that you want to download that video. 

 

I manage to download from weibo and I have uploaded to YouTube 

 

This is my link. 

 

 

 

thank you Lauren, that is very nice of you. I can't get enough of this couple. I re-watched it every night. Tell me that I'm normal.

[Yitian_fan]

4 hours ago, taeunfighting said:

 

The assassination and the last episode was disappointing to me.  I would be less critical and wouldn’t care if it wasn’t a remake of a classic.  If they were going to change the entire ending, at least do it right.  From a romance perspective, if they wanted to disprove that identity didn’t matter, they didn’t do a good job here.  The assassination definitely showed that the politics was able to drive a wedge in their relationship.  WJ could have salvaged it if he truly kept his word that he was sure he could give up everything to be with ZM right after the Ming sect went behind his back.  Obviously, his followers would have been fine leading the revolution themselves if they were able to plot against the Mongolians.  His hesitation to leave time after time his followers went behind his back didn’t leave a good impression on me to be truly satisfied with the ending.  At least in past adaptations, WJ faced the dilemma of choosing between ZM or Ming toward the end so the way they went about WJ choosing ZM over Ming was not wishy washy.  It didn’t get dragged out like it did in this one.  So although this version may have portrayed more romance between WJ and ZM, the way it led WJ to reunite with ZM in Mongolia in the end was rather flat to me.  I know each viewer sees things differently so if most got happy feels about this version, then that’s great.  I just really wish I could...I just can’t get there.

I admit I too am ambivalent but this but will hold my opinion till I get to the last few episodes.

 

It added to the angst (which is awesome) that ZWJ took on the responsibility of ZM's father's death but it put ZM in an untenable position of choosing between her two loyalties.  Someone here mentioned it doesn't ring true to ZM's personality that she would forgive him without much preamble for the death. (Yes it could be a decade later, but still... where is the closure? Where is them working out this very important issue?)

 

So yes, all in all, I think they did a really good job of ZM, but here and there went too far for the angst and sacrificed core parts of ZM's character (as they themselves tried to lay out in the front e.g., she protected WBB from ZWJ)

Ok, mandarin-enabled's who think ZWJ didn't do right by ZM in many ways this one is for you:  http://trianglehaobao.lofter.com/post/204d3e4d_12e66b714

Haven't read the rest but chapter 1 was super!  ZWJ goes to find Ruyang Wang for revenge for Minmin, but Ruyang Wang stops him in his tracks.

Spoiler

 

 

 

"I killed your wife? Which one?  Is it Zhou Zhangmen or the daughter of Ying yewang?" [Poking at the fact that he promised to marry Yinli and then promised to marry ZZR, but never did the same for ZM.]

 

Then RYW went on to tell ZWJ that ZM betrayed her father and her country, so he is entirely justified in killing her.  Not only that but if he didn't kill her others would, so the fault is in her betrayal. But it is ZWJ's actions that are unjustifiable.

 

ZM gave up everything for ZWJ, but when RYW sent his men for her, he found to his surprise that she was entirely alone and undefended.  Where was ZWJ then when she needed him?

 

Obviously she chose the wrong man.  Clearly, WBB continues accusingly, ZWJ seduced her, used her to get Ming sect out of trouble,  then let Yuan troops capture her and kill her so that he now has an excuse to assassinate RYW.

 

Coldly RYW tells him that he will crush ZWJ on the battle field to make him regret sacrificing his (RYW's) ZM for "the world"

 

 

Obviously RWY and WBB were just trying to test ZWJ but in such a magnificent way!  I was in awe at how they essentially talked ZWJ out of killing them, and even managed to (sort of) crush his spirit in the process. (i.e., you have NO RIGHT to come and demand "revenge"!)

 

[AppleBanana]

I never really liked LOTCH. I have only watched ROTCH and HSDS. Do you guys recommend the LOTCH 2017 version? 

[dramagirlslove]

I think all things considered, this version of HSDS is pretty good for a HSDS remake lol. One of the disadvantages of remaking HSDS that many past writers have faced, is that it is a slave to the book. Many past versions just basically copy and paste scenes from the book, fear of deviating from the book and angering Jin Yong fans. Finally someone who can deviate from the book and still capture the essence of the book. In past versions, I've never really liked ZWJ as a character. I've basically tolerated this character in every version, b/c I do like ZWJ/ZM as a couple, never liked ZWJ as a stand-alone character. I think this version is one of my top three ZWJ. I truly liked his character, aside from the couple. In all honesty, in EVERY version, i have never believed that ZWJ deserved ZM, this version is no exception even though I truly believe this version of ZWJ is one of the most decisive versions in terms of love for ZM. Her efforts and love for him surpassed everything, that anything he does pales in comparison to what she has done for him. I've held this belief for every past and future versions to come. It's just one essence of the character that writers will never be able to really change. I think this writer has gotten some criticism for making  ZM say the phrase ,"I've given up everything for you, why cant you given up everything for me?". But truly, I believed every version of ZM has had this very same thought. This version was the only one that had a strong enough writer to let her voice it. ZM is strong, smart, and loyal. However, she is still very young, vunerable, and emotional. Everybody wants her to continue being the "cool girl". The person who delievers the "sassy one-liners". But forget she is still human. Some say they got together too easy in the end. But given she had time to realize that ZWJ was not responsible for her father's death. Yes, ZWJ was the one that conjoled her into staying by his side, and ultimately leading her father into his death, unknowingly. But she has to take the responsibility for loving ZWJ. She knew the cost. And paid for it. And I think ahe realized that in the end, she missed him dearly. That one mistake and regret will not keep her away from him. 

[dramagirlslove]

Seriously though, i was getting serious ZZR vibes from ZWJ in the last 2 episodes given that he wanted to speed up the wedding so they can go ahead and get married lol. 

[kur4p1k4]

I like this HSDS version and it will be my one of my favorite with the '86 version definitely, even though the ending will take time for me to ever accept. I feel like by the end where the WJ's subordinate plotting behind his back not only once but so many times should be a good build up for him to actually leave the Ming sect, and leave everything to a more capable hands. By staying it actually makes WJ put more self importance on himself than he deserved. WJ has shown again and again that he's incapable to distrust his brothers in Ming sect, but by leaving I believe it will actually make him grow up and realise sometimes people's goal and motives changes especially in politics, it can show a certain matureness in WJ. But by staying I think it just show how bad WJ in judging people and his own stubbornness to actually listen to people that actually care about him. And that's why I think ZM do worry that WJ can be pushed to accept the throne if his Ming's brothers insisted enough. As she said just because you do not crave throne does not mean the throne will not come looking for you.

 

It's been shown at least in earlier episode that ZYZ is building up his own faction which should pave the way for him to become either Ming sect leader or breakaway and become his own man, which will bring the historical fiction back to the historical line. The biggest problem I have is that the ZYZ at the end do not become emperor which defeat the beauty of JY's Condor heroes trilogy novel, which is is he's playing around with history by inserting wuxia and fictional characters but at the end of the day history still has to be told and affirmed. Just like both LOCH and ROCH, not even the best, bravest and righteous martial artists can stop the end of the Song dynasty and the start of Mongol rules.

 

And another thing why sometimes I'm a bit wary watching anything with political intrigue somehow I feel like the ending, the WJ in the throne room part, is something they have to do to compromise with the Chinese censorship board. Because if the ending we all want is WJ leaving with ZM it just gives an unacceptable moral lesson for censorship board, that you leave your duty to country and people to be with the woman you love, it just make you unpatriotic. I hate that I actually thought out this conspiracy garbage (Mod, if this last paragraph is not allowed please message, I'll delete it)

 

Edited April 19, 2019 by kur4p1k4

[kur4p1k4]

1 hour ago, AppleBanana said:

I never really liked LOTCH. I have only watched ROTCH and HSDS. Do you guys recommend the LOTCH 2017 version? 

I personally do not recommend LOCH 2017 version the actress who play Huang Rong does not capture the spirit of Huang Rong for me. And for me Huang Rong is integral to my enjoyment of watching LOCH, if I don't like the way the actress play Huang Rong I don't watch it.

The last LOCH I like is TVB 94' version.

Which version of LOCH you watched @AppleBanana?

[graceeedwardmom]

4 hours ago, LaurenPanna said:

 

I love this idea!! They are the best match for Linghu chong and ren yingying!! 

 

I can't move on until both of them did another series together!!! 

 

Guess what, i just rewatch the sole tickling scene up till end of snake island, all over again! 

 

Am so happy to know so many of you here are fans of both 1986 & 2019 versions ZWJ ZM shippers

 

5 hours ago, bluesky888 said:

last year version was awful.  the cast is not that great. I don't mind they make another one with Joseph & Yukee.

 

6 hours ago, vicious219 said:

Smiling, Proud Wanderer aka Xiao Ao Jiang Hu.  We just had a SPW last year though so I doubt we'll be getting another one so soon.  It's just my wishful thinking.

Guys, i really love the idea of pairing Joseph and Yukee again. But i don't think SPW is good idea. For most of the story, LHC was infatuated with her martial art sister YLS, you will feel sick of it until you want to throw your screen.  this is my feeling everytime i watch SPW, i just can't stand LHC. Not to mention the series of misundertandings and slanders he had. Same with HSDS, yukee will only appear after half of the story. We will not be satisfied again. As for LOCH, LOCH 2017 is good enough for me besides joseph is too handsome as GJ. 

 

I recommend we choose different storyline. We don't have to choose from JY stories there are other stories where the male lead not so passive in showing his affection like ZWJ.

[LaurenPanna]

20 minutes ago, kur4p1k4 said:

I personally do not recommend LOCH 2017 version the actress who play Huang Rong does not capture the spirit of Huang Rong for me. And for me Huang Rong is integral to my enjoyment of watching LOCH, if I don't like the way the actress play Huang Rong I don't watch it.

The last LOCH I like is TVB 94' version.

Which version of LOCH you watched @AppleBanana?

 

The LOCH i love is 1984 version. That version was the one who made me read Jinyong novels 

[kur4p1k4]

1 minute ago, LaurenPanna said:

 

The LOCH i love is 1984 version. That version was the one who made me read Jinyong novels 

Yup, I like that one also, they got perfect casting and best OST ever. Sooooo many filler though that was not in the book.

[LaurenPanna]

1 hour ago, dramagirlslove said:

I think all things considered, this version of HSDS is pretty good for a HSDS remake lol. One of the disadvantages of remaking HSDS that many past writers have faced, is that it is a slave to the book. Many past versions just basically copy and paste scenes from the book, fear of deviating from the book and angering Jin Yong fans. Finally someone who can deviate from the book and still capture the essence of the book. In past versions, I've never really liked ZWJ as a character. I've basically tolerated this character in every version, b/c I do like ZWJ/ZM as a couple, never liked ZWJ as a stand-alone character. I think this version is one of my top three ZWJ. I truly liked his character, aside from the couple. In all honesty, in EVERY version, i have never believed that ZWJ deserved ZM, this version is no exception even though I truly believe this version of ZWJ is one of the most decisive versions in terms of love for ZM. Her efforts and love for him surpassed everything, that anything he does pales in comparison to what she has done for him. I've held this belief for every past and future versions to come. It's just one essence of the character that writers will never be able to really change. I think this writer has gotten some criticism for making  ZM say the phrase ,"I've given up everything for you, why cant you given up everything for me?". But truly, I believed every version of ZM has had this very same thought. This version was the only one that had a strong enough writer to let her voice it. ZM is strong, smart, and loyal. However, she is still very young, vunerable, and emotional. Everybody wants her to continue being the "cool girl". The person who delievers the "sassy one-liners". But forget she is still human. Some say they got together too easy in the end. But given she had time to realize that ZWJ was not responsible for her father's death. Yes, ZWJ was the one that conjoled her into staying by his side, and ultimately leading her father into his death, unknowingly. But she has to take the responsibility for loving ZWJ. She knew the cost. And paid for it. And I think ahe realized that in the end, she missed him dearly. That one mistake and regret will not keep her away from him. 

 

I fully agree with you and i also thought the same when i first see the critics 

 

I mean ZM is after all just a youthful teenager, she is human. Its normal for her to air her thoughts 

 

ZWJ in this version made me like the character i never did when i read the novel. In fact i seriously dislike him as a character. Very irritating to see him sweet talking to very much every girl in the story 

Just now, kur4p1k4 said:

Yup, I like that one also, they got perfect casting and best OST ever. Sooooo many filler though that was not in the book.

 

That version has my top favourite huang rong. 

[taeunfighting]

4 hours ago, Yitian_fan said:

I admit I too am ambivalent but this but will hold my opinion till I get to the last few episodes.

 

It added to the angst (which is awesome) that ZWJ took on the responsibility of ZM's father's death but it put ZM in an untenable position of choosing between her two loyalties.  Someone here mentioned it doesn't ring true to ZM's personality that she would forgive him without much preamble for the death. (Yes it could be a decade later, but still... where is the closure? Where is them working out this very important issue?)

 

So yes, all in all, I think they did a really good job of ZM, but here and there went too far for the angst and sacrificed core parts of ZM's character (as they themselves tried to lay out in the front e.g., she protected WBB from ZWJ)

 

I hope I didn't ruin anything for you!  I normally don't get disgruntled over a drama, but I can't help over analyze and be critical about this one because I have always had a soft spot for this story.  And yes, I share similar thoughts about ZM's character as you do too.

[LaurenPanna]

23 minutes ago, graceeedwardmom said:

LHC was infatuated with her martial art sister YLS, you will feel sick of it until you want to throw your screen.  this is my feeling everytime i watch SPW, i just can't stand LHC. Not to mention the series of misundertandings and slanders he had. 

 

Come to think of it, you are right. 

I always felt RYY is only his second best priority. Ok let's petition for new series

[AppleBanana]

27 minutes ago, kur4p1k4 said:

I personally do not recommend LOCH 2017 version the actress who play Huang Rong does not capture the spirit of Huang Rong for me. And for me Huang Rong is integral to my enjoyment of watching LOCH, if I don't like the way the actress play Huang Rong I don't watch it.

The last LOCH I like is TVB 94' version.

Which version of LOCH you watched @AppleBanana?

I actually haven’t watched any to be honest. Idk why it never interests me. I did, however, saw a few clips of the version with Ariel Lin. But that didn’t really pressed me on to watch the series. Yeah I don’t really like the actress who plays in the LOCH 2017 version either. I know she’s a pretty popular actress too but nope. Can’t get into any of her dramas so I’ll pass this one. It’s okay. I’m still hung up on this drama. So I probably won’t be able to enjoy anything for awhile. 

[jackieusa]

8 minutes ago, AppleBanana said:

 

 I’m still hung up on this drama. So I probably won’t be able to enjoy anything for awhile. 

Lol....Same here, I'm so hung up that I start all over from adult ZWJ and skip some of the non-ZWJ part

Unable to start any new drama for the moment, mind still full of images of ZWJ and MM.

[LaurenPanna]

20 minutes ago, taeunfighting said:

 

I hope I didn't ruin anything for you!  I normally don't get disgruntled over a drama, but I can't help over analyze and be critical about this one because I have always had a soft spot for this story.  And yes, I share similar thoughts about ZM's character as you do too.

 

Initially i do have the feeling that ZWJ gets ZM forgiveness too easily 

 

But come to think of it. 

 

It could be years later that they were reunited. Time heal the wounds. Zm always had some soft spot for him. Moreover, she did not blame him for her father's death, she knows its fatty Zhu doing. She knew he would not leave with her, she is probably just suggesting and see his reaction. But stilll, she is disappointed that he did not leave and decided to give up on him. She stilll wish to protect him at that very last minute by suggesting him to leave. 

So eventually leaving him is her only option to avoid her seeing WJ and her bro fighting each other in war. 

 

At the very last part, she ask, why did you come so late, shows that she miss him very much, and she must be waiting for very very long time, probably YEARS. At that moment, her feeling is "very relieved" to see WJ safe and sound, although she sound like grumbling softly. The path towards looking for her in Mongol endlessly is not easy. It is not as if he has an address as a guideline to look for her. To be able to even show up in front of her, already prove his sincerity being a sufficient reason to get her forgiveness 

[penforella]

Since I don't understand the dialogue my opinion is purely based on visual observation.

 

I don't think MM ever really blamed WJ for her father's death, based on who she is, I would say she blame herself. Her anger towards WJ would be because after all that happened he still won't walk away and even over himself up when she wanted to get revenge.

 

In the past she also tried time and time again to give up on WJ but everytime she saw a glimpse of hope she didn't. The fact that WJ shows up in front of her is a testament for her that he's keeping on his promise to come back to her and that he's finally free.