[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] The Story of Ming Lan 庶女明兰传 / 知否？知否？应是绿肥红瘦

[dito]

2 hours ago, mrsyooknit said:

While I do feel for QH, I do think he made some big mistakes in how he asked for his family to accept Minglan. However, it wouldnt have mattered anyways since his family wouldnt consider her for main wife. And if she had managed that, she would have suffered a lot on his household. So I am ready for us to move past this storyline and I don't know if the doctor was portrayed better in the book but I really could care less about him in the drama. 

 

I saw some previews and I feel like GTY is looking at Minglan differently, but she doesnt seem equally interested. Is it just me?

 

In the book ML only realized that GTY liked her when she found out about his grand scheme to get her. Going to so much trouble, to put her family in a situation where they could only accept his proposal, that required some deep planning. Even granny acknowledged....how deep his mind must be to plan step by step like this to come inside our door.   

In the drama we might see ML feelings starting to change for GTY...since we are seeing his. And since in the drama they are spending more time together.

[leeza77]

10 minutes ago, Golden Flower said:

@zenya22 I have been withholding to comment for over two weeks and my comment became long. That’s why I put most of them including things related to book in spoiler. 

My main point was not being fair in people comparing QH and GTY in understanding ML and protecting ML. I’m just not too happy with drama writing and direction in creating QH and ML scenes. They took some scenes from book leaving a lot without including some explanations even as conversation and added some to create more scenes but that caused inconsistency with the time and making QH as immature and whiny with no character growth. I do understand they have to make changes to avoid time traveling, create more second male lead scenes, develop first love and heartache to create character development for ML as she was already an mature adult in the book. 

The drama writers could have included 1-2 childhood scenes showing closeness between QH and ML and QH’s mom fondness of ML when she was young like in the book while they added arrow throwing competition, getting doctors for ML’s mom and GTY’s grandfather funeral scenes for GTY. The writers made QH’s mom never met ML before and QH only sees ML during class since they were young. 

I think there might be character development for QH also. He was considered as weak at this point of time to give him reason for further development and strength. 

[minoku2209]

Ep 25 ~

1) I love to see this lovng grandma & her sweet pretty grand daughter

 

2) what a cute kidnap scene 

 

[linhlinh111]

Both in the book and in the movie, it is clear to this point that GTY aready had eyes on her, but ML still doesn't see him that way. She still considers him an elder that she can respect and be close to. GTY is actually 7-8 yrs older than ML and already had an eldest son from a concubine (which is very disrespecting to his future main wife and her family in that time period) so he is not within the potential husband pool.

[zenya22]

1 minute ago, Golden Flower said:

@zenya22 I have been withholding to comment for over two weeks and my comment became long. That’s why I put most of them including things related to book in spoiler. 

My main point was not being fair in people comparing QH and GTY in understanding ML and protecting ML. I’m just not too happy with drama writing and direction in creating QH and ML scenes. They took some scenes from book leaving a lot without including some explanations even as conversation and added some to create more scenes but that caused inconsistency with the time and making QH as immature and whiny with no character growth. I do understand they have to make changes to avoid time traveling, create more second male lead scenes, develop first love and heartache to create character development for ML as she was already an mature adult in the book. 

The drama writers could have included 1-2 childhood scenes showing closeness between QH and ML and QH’s mom fondness of ML when she was young like in the book while they added arrow throwing competition, getting doctors for ML’s mom and GTY’s grandfather funeral scenes for GTY. The writers made QH’s mom never met ML before and QH only sees ML during class since they were young. 

Since most of us commenting did not read the book our opinions are only based on the drama and even those who have read the book have different opinions of whom and why they agree or disagree with a character. Maybe as the drama progresses we will see an improved, grown up QH.

[lilkat75]

@Golden Flower

28 minutes ago, Golden Flower said:

@zenya22 I have been withholding to comment for over two weeks and my comment became long. That’s why I put most of them including things related to book in spoiler. 

My main point was not being fair in people comparing QH and GTY in understanding ML and protecting ML. I’m just not too happy with drama writing and direction in creating QH and ML scenes. They took some scenes from book leaving a lot without including some explanations even as conversation and added some to create more scenes but that caused inconsistency with the time and making QH as immature and whiny with no character growth. I do understand they have to make changes to avoid time traveling, create more second male lead scenes, develop first love and heartache to create character development for ML as she was already an mature adult in the book. 

The drama writers could have included 1-2 childhood scenes showing closeness between QH and ML and QH’s mom fondness of ML when she was young like in the book while they added arrow throwing competition, getting doctors for ML’s mom and GTY’s grandfather funeral scenes for GTY. The writers made QH’s mom never met ML before and QH only sees ML during class since they were young. 

Although I have been happy so far with the adaptation and its changes, I do have to agree with you on feeling a bit disappointed with some of ML and QH parts. I think having one more episode focusing on the childhood scenes with ML and QH meeting would have been nicer and we could have seen their relationship develop to what it is now. QH appeared way more cheeky in the book  from what I have read with the English translations too. Additionally, QH's mother seemed less haughty (?) in the novel but I guess the drama writers had to tweak her a bit to suit the current characterisation of QH. I'm curious to see how QH will develop then in future episodes. I wish the drama included some more of the sweet scenes from the novel though I'm glad they did add new GTY parts.

Spoiler

For example of sweet scenes was when ML went fishing and cooked food for her grandma. Then QH came along (invited by grandma) and ate the meal too even though ML wasn't too happy about it since it was specially made for her and grandma .  Later ML pretended the other fish/turtle weren't ready for cooking to make QH go away but in the end, he worked around it to be invited for another meal 

 

[linhlinh111]

I want to explain to you why the fact that GTY already had an eldest son is looking so bad for him. During this time period, normally the family's title and assets would go to the legitimate son. However the eldest son also held certain influence in the household bc he had a few years' advantage and the title 'big brother' (which means he was to be respected by his younger brothers). If the illegitimate eldest son turned out to be a capable man, climbed up in the social ladder he may use his connections and his title as the eldest son to fight for the family title and fortune. That's why in families with status, a concubine would not be allowed to have children before the main wife had produced an heir, or only if the main wife couldn't produce an heir after a few years of marriage. If a man accidentally got his maid pregnant before he got married, the maid would be forced to have an abortion. That's why in the Sheng family, although ML's father favoured Lin concubine, both of his eldest son and daughter were from his main wife. That can also explain why Manniang took the son not the daughter, bc the son was much more important. A man who already had an eldest son would not be able to marry a lady from the same status, since her family would not agree to take that risk. He would have to marry someone from a lower status.

 

It's lucky for GTY later he turned out to become the new Emperor's favourite, or else there's no way his scheme would work.

[Golden Flower]

4 hours ago, zenya22 said:

The societal/family norms of the time has been explained thoroughly by other posters....

As for the mother, no one said she was manipulative and it may not have been her intention to shame the Shengs but it is the perspective of the characters of the Sheng house who perceived what she did as slight to their honor. Granny and Big Mama said, "that princess looked down on us"

@zenya22 Although I quoted one of the recent posts, I was not commenting solely on that post. There are many posts from a few days ago saying QH’s mom being cunning, manipulative and trying to shame the grandmom and I was trying to point out that it is not the case and the situation will not turn out really bad making grandmom angry if ML and her grandmom did not hear wrong information from QH in advance that his parents would propose ML’s hands. 

What I meant was the drama did not explain/portray well the societal/family norms of the time, not the posters in the thread. Imo, If someone has to explain to viewers even if they’re none native speakers what is going on in a long drama, the drama is not doing a great job. Before the scene where ML telling grandmom about QH’s parents coming to propose for her during CB’s wedding, there were many posts in the thread debating/arguing whether ML likes QH or just being polite to him and didn’t like him at all like in the book. My previous comments were related to those posts (as I just started posting today though have been reading most of the posts in the thread) since it is very obvious in the drama the fact that ML likes QH since she got his two brushes and fruits though her rational mind was preventing her to acknowledge her feelings and the drama is heading towards first love and heartbreak.

Sorry to make some of you confused as I’m writing comments related to old posts that I hold up for over two weeks.

 

 

[hello210]

2 hours ago, zenya22 said:

Since most of us commenting did not read the book our opinions are only based on the drama and even those who have read the book have different opinions of whom and why they agree or disagree with a character. Maybe as the drama progresses we will see an improved, grown up QH.

I agree. I think that we’ll get to see QH’s character growth as the drama unfolds because there are a couple of scenes in the trailers that shows a different view of him. 

Spoiler

Poor thing watched his mom order his loyal servant beat to death.

 

[nnnju]

I just feel I'm so lucky that I did not board the ship of QH/ML in both the book and the drama. lol. That princess as mother-in-law just shakes away all my possible romance thinking between them. Actually I was nearly on the boat of Dr. He and ML in the book but was early enough to sense something odd and abandoned the ship before it sank. hahahaha.

[leeza77]

8 minutes ago, nnnju said:

I just feel I'm so lucky that I did not board the ship of QH/ML in both the book and the drama. lol. That princess as mother-in-law just shakes away all my possible romance thinking between them. Actually I was nearly on the boat of Dr. He and ML in the book but was early enough to sense something odd and abandoned the ship before it sank. hahahaha.

Spoiler

Well tonight Gty did offer to help him getting together with ML, but he didn't accept the offer of help from gty. Thus, he lost ML and regret it. 

 

[nichiwoohee]

Just finished watching episode 23-24, my take on them:

 

ep 23: you can actually see GTY’s look at ML changes.. I’m sure FSF didnt need much acting for it  but it is very significant to see

 

ep 24: lao taitai really is shaping ML to be ready for the backyard shenanigans. Watching her cousin’s marriage problem unfold, giving solutions, that is one invaluable lesson. One that the spoiled rulan and molan wont ever have to experience

Spoiler

More so that she will kinda experience it with her marriage later on, not having kids until 1 year, leeches trying to give women in the guise of filial piety. At least now she can have a real life lesson, and will already be prepared for it

 

[nnnju]

3 hours ago, Lunkera said:

@nnnju Yeah, most period dramas are before Song or during Qing dynasty. The drama being in Northern Song means that it's atleast like 150 years before Song falls. Which makes it alot nicer. I dont know which emperor rules at the moment since i haven't started watching yet if it's even mentioned. It's nice to see some different parts from the spoilers i have read. In episode 23 GTY says he will never go back to Gu Residence, which probably means that Rong won't be abused by the stepmom like she was in the novel since GTY left her with Nannies. I hate seeing children abused, but unfortunely it was pretty normal during those time periods, heck it's not that unusual even today.

Glad that you can escape from the fan wars atleast ^^

Regarding the emperor, I checked a bit, it is agreed by most netizen, he is Emperor RenZong of the Northern Song Dynasty (AD1022-1063, the fourth emperor of the nine emperors in the dynasty). He is regarded as a kind emperor with no major establishment but also no major mistakes. The story most likely happened at around AD1062 since it was time for him to adopt a heir from his relatives.

[nnnju]

6 hours ago, tomo74 said:

@nnnju I agree with you, crazy fanatic fans are scary, I saw people got into nasty fight (in the chat), name calling, swearing, etc because the crazy fan got offended for something stupid (no one even said something bad about that actor/actress, they just overly sensitive) so I'm happy in this forum, everyone are nice and open minded

So true, so true. So glad there are still some places to go with peace and mature thinking. Orz

[Lunkera]

@nnnju I see, but the next emperor after Renzong called Yingzong only ruled for 4 years. I guess GTY will be favored by both the father and son?. Atleast interesting to know if it happens around emperor Renzong is that Song Dynasty will last for atleast another 200 years.

[nnnju]

5 minutes ago, Lunkera said:

@nnnju I see, but the next emperor after Renzong called Yingzong only ruled for 4 years. I guess GTY will be favored by both the father and son?. Atleast interesting to know if it happens around emperor Renzong is that Song Dynasty will last for atleast another 200 years.

lol. did not check the next emperor part. I'm not so sure if everything will or could be made by matching the real names and events. Curious. Looking forward to see future eps.  

[Golden Flower]

8 hours ago, purplefall94 said:

  Hide contents

I just finished episode 25 and honestly the scenes of GTY and ML in this episode clearly hinted why GTY, not QH, is the better match to ML. QH's plan (not even a plan in my book) to force his mom to accept ML as his main wife only carelessly put ML into awkward and dangerous situations. He did not for a moment consider how his love and actions can harm her in the short and long term, even after she tried to spell it out for him. I can't take his love seriously because of how selfish it is.

 

I beg to differ opinion on QH being selfish and GTY being better man and more considerate towards ML than QH. Imo, we’re comparing apples and oranges when comparing QH and GTY. They’re just two totally different people with different personalities, backgrounds and in different situations that ML met and loved at different times in her life.

Of course, it will turn out GTY was more suitable for ML as he is main lead (he has more screen time since childhood parts, his character development is more flushed out and more open conversations with ML since childhood), she got married to him and had a happy marriage life later created by author.

Imo, QH and ML's love is same as first love which did not end up in marriage or even first marriage that did not work for some couples due to time, circumstances and certain situations though the couple was in love and neither party was selfish nor bad people for relationship not to work. 
 

Spoiler

 

We do not know yet whether GTY will trick Sheng family and ML to marry him in the drama like in the book. If he does, I think GTY is more selfish than QH as he is being dishonest about his circumstances and feelings, cheating ML and her family of their trust and not having even basic respect to ML as human being. Though he mentioned to ML before actual marriage that he believes he is the one who can give ML life being true to herself, what kind of marriage life will be when bride is conned into it. That's why ML didn't open up to him or being openly showed her thoughts to him in the beginning of the marriage. 

 

 

[linhlinh111]

6 minutes ago, Golden Flower said:

I beg to differ opinion on QH being selfish and GTY being better man and more considerate towards ML than QH. Imo, we’re comparing apples and oranges when comparing QH and GTY. They’re just two totally different people with different personalities, backgrounds and in different situations that ML met and loved at different times in her life.

Of course, it will turn out GTY was more suitable for ML as he is main lead (he has more screen time since childhood parts, his character development is more flushed out and more open conversations with ML since childhood), she got married to him and had a happy marriage life later created by author.

Imo, QH and ML's love is same as first love which did not end up in marriage or even first marriage that did not work for some couples due to time, circumstances and certain situations though the couple was in love and neither party was selfish nor bad people for relationship not to work. 
 

  Hide contents

 

We do not know yet whether GTY will trick Sheng family and ML to marry him in the drama like in the book. If he does, I think GTY is more selfish than QH as he is being dishonest about his circumstances and feelings, cheating ML and her family of their trust and not having even basic respect to ML as human being. Though he mentioned to ML before actual marriage that he believes he is the one who can give ML life being true to herself, what kind of marriage life will be when bride is conned into it. That's why ML didn't open up to him or being openly showed her thoughts to him in the beginning of the marriage. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes that's one thing I dislike about him. Even later in the marriage where there are things he does that pissed me off, but I guess it makes him more realistic. Unlike the typical perfect male lead, he's flawed in thoughts and in methods and he keeps learning and changing himself to be a better man throughout the story before and even after marriage.

 

I hope he wouldn't have to trick ML and her family in the drama, cuz unlike the book, he has more interactions with ML so maybe ML will actually accept his proposal and help him persuade her grandma.

[dito]

1 hour ago, leeza77 said:

  Hide contents

Well tonight Gty did offer to help him getting together with ML, but he didn't accept the offer of help from gty. Thus, he lost ML and regret it. 

 

 

Really? I kind of felt like GTY came to see him to do something like that. QH went awfully quite after GTY said something but he stayed silent till the end. He'll regret it for the rest of his life. And for GTY, I think he's making sure there's no accusations on him from QH later on of moving in on his girl in his absence. Had he accepted GTY's offer.....I'm sure GTY would've helped them. But QH has too much on his plate right now.....and so couldn't decide.

Also I'm glad ML returned both the dolls.....clean break is the best in such situations.

I was just very surprised that the princess had to explain to QH the trouble their family was in.... 

[Lunkera]

@nnnju I guess it could also be an alternate world probably. Since the novels into drama are usually just loosely based on history. Fun to theorize anyway.