[Drama 2016-2017] Guardian: The Lonely and Great Goblin 도깨비

[vivvianne22]

I remember there's someone who asking about the bluetooth speaker brand. The bluetooth speaker is from Baskin Robbins, we could have it for only 3900 won alongside with a purchasing one of their ice cream cake. I believe this only available in S.Korea. Too many PPL in this episode lol.

[dhia205]

because i still can't get over the confession scene... "I LOVE YOU... AJUSHI"

 

 

[naritul]

 

https://www.soompi.com/2016/12/24/kim-woo-bin-talks-name-dropped-goblin/

 

In an interview about his recent film “Master,” actor Kim Woo Bin was asked about his feelings regarding being mentioned in the drama “Goblin.”

Previously, Lee Dong Wook‘s character in “Goblin” tries to pick a name for himself. He asks about which names females like and Kim Woo Bin is among the recommendations.

Kim Woo Bin answered, “I was really surprised. I sent a text to [Kim Eun Sook] right away. Wow~ it was really fun. And for my name to be included on top of that. I wrote ‘Fighting!’ to [Kim Eun Sook].  Since my name came up I said, ‘Thank you very much,’ and Kim Eun Sook said, ‘Buy me a meal in return.'”

Kim Eun Sook is the writer of “Goblin” as well as “Heirs” which starred Kim Woo Bin.

Kim Woo Bin further expressed his thankfulness toward Kim Eun Sook and said, “Since we worked together in ‘A Gentleman’s Dignity‘ and ‘Heirs,’ we have kept in touch. I am so thankful because we worked on projects that helped many people get to know the name ‘Kim Woo Bin.’ She’s like a benefactor. I don’t know if there is a way to do this, but I really want to repay her.”

The actor also mentioned his favorite shows these days besides “Goblin.” He said he’s a big fan of “I Live Alone” and “My Ugly Duckling.” Furthermore, he commented that he likes “Running Man” since he has appeared on the show often and they feel like family.

Edited December 24, 2016 by naritul

[platenglass]

37 minutes ago, hushhh said:

 Great analysis.

As always, your attention to detail is impressive.

Personally I don't have enough information to have a firm idea if the Grim Weeper is the king or queen.

What I will say is that I read the scene of the queen's assassination differently than you did.

When we first see the king, what I see is pain, hurt from betrayal, and fear.

I'm not sure who he feels betrayed by, but it is betrayal.

To my mind the King changes once the queen tells Shin to go ahead.

With the queen taking Shin's side the king changes.  He give the order to kill everyone in HIS family.  [from what I've read Korean personal pronouns are the devil to translate. My translation says his family.  Yours said hers. Both are valid from what I know--which ain't much. 

The queen's public betrayal of him by choosing Shin's side hardens the king because it most likely confirms the horse manure his Iago of a Eunuch has been pouring in his ear. So with the queen's choice the pain and hurt is replaced by anger, that is sustained through the end of the scene.

I choose the the King as the Grim weeper because of the most superficial skin deep reason.  Both Grimmy and Kingie are unusually pale.  But  in reviewing the scene to check what i thought I saw I realized that the queen is also very pale.  Paleness does not stand out as much with women. 

Sunny's personality jives with nothing I know of the history. I have no idea who she could be.  I'm only sure she isn't Shin.

Another reason why I thought the Grim Weeper (I do know it is reaper but after today I prefer Weeper) was the king was because of the forced co-habitation.  I figure the god were giving Goblin and Grimmy a chance to bond so that when the reveal is done they will have had enough good will built up for them to let go of old grudges.  I'm not sure why would be necessary plot wise for Shin and his Sister.

I'd like to combine your 1 & 3 as to why it makes better sense to read Grimmy as the queen and point out that Goblin is dominant and better resourced than ET, yet we see him constantly rehearsing for their encounters in an attempt to impress her with his "cool" I began to expect him to tote classic painting on his back throughout in hopes of impressing ET when he finds himself summons.  While ET hardly ever primps for him.

 

 

 

Somehow i think it relates the idea of the GR was the queen while Sunny was the king since previous there was a scene when the goblin talked about the king while watching some K-Pop male idol, the GR said maybe the king can be reincarnated as a girl too, then IOI were singing on their screen.

[packmule3]

@hushhh --

3:40 am here where I am  so I'm only giving myself 5 minutes to type this. I won't have time to respond tomorrow and I don't want to leave you hanging....

the reason for Goblim and Grimmy's forced cohabitation was actually said by ET in Episode 4. This is an inside joke. (Just like in R88 and other rom-coms. You won't get it until you do a rewatch.)  Shin asked ET why would she stay in the same house as the Reaper when Reaper wants her dead. And her response is extemporaneous: because it is always darkest under the lamp.

hahahaha. 

in our American idiom, she's saying "you miss what is right under your very nose." 

That's the dramatic irony in Episode 6, when he was giving away the scroll. He remarked that it was too bad he couldn't locate the people he needed to find....

Of course!  he missed the reincarnated queen because the queen was right under the lamp...err...his nose.

See? The writer's sneaky. Wordplay. 

I'll answer the other things quickly. 

Yes, because of pronoun ambiguity inherent in the Korean language, it's possible that he ordered Shin's family dead. I had considered that possibility.  But I say the first command was directed at her because only ONE arrow flew and it went straight to her heart. Bullseye! No other arrow followed. 

As for betrayal of King, that's a possibility. But as the script stands right now, without further backstory, it can only be speculative and not a basis for establishing motive or rationale for the carnage. The EXPLICIT reason for the killings, as told by the narrator, is the king's jealousy for his general's increased and increasing popularity. 

 

 

[dramoron]

Finally... We got TaeBi reunion in one screen together   Though i expect more than this...

[odiniodiniodini]

7 minutes ago, dramoron said:

Finally... We got TaeBi reunion in one screen together   Though i expect more than this... 

 

omg yes. gong taekwang  it's been more than a year lmao

[NRGchick]

It would be interesting for Kim Woo Bin to cameo as himself as a rival for Sunny's affections....hahahaha...Tough question would be 'which Kim Woo Bin is more attractive?' *dilemma* *dilemma*

[heroonthebeach]

wow I haven't logged on in many days because i'm currently on holiday, but I have to say I really enjoyed all the conversation here about comparisons to Jane Eyre (which is actually my favourite book of all time) and talk about religion. I will catch up on the discussions and respond when I have more time!

In the meantime, I just finished watching ep7 and love it so much. It seems to support my theory about how Goblin has to learn to live, before the sword can become real. Posted my thoughts on it here: https://kdramaanalysis.wordpress.com/2016/12/24/the-lonely-and-shining-goblin-episode-7/

Enjoy everyone! and hope everyone has a lovely Christmas eve today! 

[dramoron]

More OSTs to be released: Sam Kim - Who Are You, Mamamoo - LOVE, Soyu - I Miss You. 

 

[hushhh]

10 hours ago, packmule3 said:

@hushhh --

3:40 am here where I am  so I'm only giving myself 5 minutes to type this. I won't have time to respond tomorrow and I don't want to leave you hanging....

the reason for Goblim and Grimmy's forced cohabitation was actually said by ET in Episode 4. This is an inside joke. (Just like in R88 and other rom-coms. You won't get it until you do a rewatch.)  Shin asked ET why would she stay in the same house as the Reaper when Reaper wants her dead. And her response is extemporaneous: because it is always darkest under the lamp.

hahahaha. 

in our American idiom, she's saying "you miss what is right under your very nose." 

That's the dramatic irony in Episode 6, when he was giving away the scroll. He remarked that it was too bad he couldn't locate the people he needed to find....

Of course!  he missed the reincarnated queen because the queen was right under the lamp...err...his nose.

See? The writer's sneaky. Wordplay. 

I'll answer the other things quickly. 

Yes, because of pronoun ambiguity inherent in the Korean language, it's possible that he ordered Shin's family dead. I had considered that possibility.  But I say the first command was directed at her because only ONE arrow flew and it went straight to her heart. Bullseye! No other arrow followed. 

As for betrayal of King, that's a possibility. But as the script stands right now, without further backstory, it can only be speculative and not a basis for establishing motive or rationale for the carnage. The EXPLICIT reason for the killings, as told by the narrator, is the king's jealousy for his general's increased and increasing popularity. 

 

 

4:20 here.  My internal clock is wrecked.

I miss lots  things because I rarely ever rewatch episodes much less series. [ R88 was one of the few, and Kim Sam Soon in its entirety, scenes from Scent of a Woman, and Marriage Contract.  Kiss me Kill me is worth a rewatch but I haven't . . . I desperately want to rewatch the Japanese series Mother, one of the best things I've ever watched. But I'm literally (used correctly) afraid.  I'm terrified of the emotional exercise it puts my heart through  It's been 7 years and I won't consider re-watching it unless I have someone willing to hold my hand and pass me tissues.  They are considering a k-drama remake.]

The Yellow Highlight is actually the best argument to me for Grimmy being the Queen. But I'm still not getting an emotional echo that from Grimmy and Goblin that says siblings in another life.

Without knowing more what happened 900+ years ago it is impossible for me to link the present souls to their past.

Warning: Unpopular opinion under spoiler.   Fan on Sunny, nothing here for you.

Spoiler

Sunny in an amusing but empty character to me.  Right now she is entertaining but has the depth and dimensionality of paper. In today's episode DH showed some depth. Those two (for me) are pretty and amusing  foils, but that's all.

As I was typing my silly warning I wondered if the connection between Goblin and Sunny is that well, Goblin's name could be "Rainy" for much of this series. Bad pun=bed time.

Good morning.

EDIT: Here is one reason that it would suck if Sunny is the King if everything is as we have been told so far is true. 

Modern Sunny does not seem to be suffering from anything more than boredom and a little loneliness.  If Sunny is the king who (from our perspective) did a heinous wrong, how can Sunny-King be rewarded with happiness (after no suffering) when the persons who where were sinned against, Shin and the Queen, have been suffering for almost a millennium, one with no forgetfulness and one with no memory.  For that to work we need a lot more information to shift our perspective on who Sunny-king is and what Shin and the Queen did to "deserve" their fate.

 

[nearsea]

3 hours ago, packmule3 said:

Thanks for tagging me, @phikyl. Every time I come here I feel like Alice in Wonderful falling down the rabbit’s hole, so I usually wait till somebody tags me.

Somebody asked me why would a person cry looking at his own portrait or photograph? Isn’t he some kind of fool? Egotist? Plain psycho? (@nearsea, are you here? You're my devil's advocate.) 

I think that’s a fair question, and the advantage of old age is we HAVE cried over old photographs of ourselves. Right, @CamelKnight?

Here are my reasons, based on experience. 

Some photos can make people cry because they remind them of a better time, when they were innocent and thought they weren’t limited and could do anything they wanted. They know better now, so they cry. 

Some photos can make people cry because they remind them of hard times, when they were barely holding things together, but they had to grin and bear it for appearance’s sake and because there was a camera trained on them. They know better now, so they cry. 

However, some photos can make me weep, not because they remind me of specific good or bad times, but because I can never go back in time. I know better now, yet I cannot change the past. So I weep for what could have been, and would never be.

For all I know, the Grim Reaper could feel the same way as I do. That's human nature when confronted with a reminder of a tragic personal history.  

Thus  for me, to infer that he’s the king simply because he cried at the sight of the picture, and to attribute his sorrow to his regret for ordering the queen's death is jumping to conclusions not supported by the script -- as the script currently stands.  

Let me explain --

This is the sequence of events at the King’s courtyard. 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Queen and Shin meet. She smiles at him gently. He glances toward the king. The king looks back at him with a frown. 
Shin: So he’s really going this far? (not looking at the queen)
King: Don’t step any closer. Stop right there. Stop all of it. (Queen averts her eyes and gazes down.) Stop right there and die. If you do, I’ll spare everyone else. But if you take even one more step toward me, I’ll kill everyone in front of you and lay their corpses at your feet. 
Queen: (Not looking at him) Go, General. (He looks at her.) I’m alright. (Looks at him.) 

The King’s glare hardens as he hears this. As of Episode 7, we don’t know why she ordered him to go forward KNOWING fully well that the King would kill them. 

Shin: I – (he swallows) Your Highness, I…
Queen: I know. I know everything. And if this the end for me, then such is my fate. 

The King clenches his jaw. Brows furrow. Nostrils flare. These are signs of anger. 

Queen: So please go. Don’t stop and keep walking toward the king. (Shin looks at her intently then looks at the king. King’s mouth tightens and he swallows. His chin juts out – and this is a sign of resolve/defiance like, “Go ahead! Do it, and see what I'll do!") 

He walks forward, she begins to tear up. A tear drops. She knows death is coming. To paraphrase what the gods told Shin as a reason for his punishment, “while they were his enemies, her relatives, they were also the blood of the gods.”

King: Don’t spare her or anyone related to her (Notice that? He said “her." He could have ordered his guards to shoot arrows at Shin instead, and spared her but she was his target.) 

King: This is my command! (His face is trembling in anger.  He can't be any clearer: this is His command, not the eunuch’s. His choice. People can blame the eunuch for starting trouble, but ultimately the decision to kill her is his.) 

An arrow hits her on the RIGHT CHEST (the same area that Grim Reaper clutches in pain). Shin momentarily stops. She drops to the ground. 

Family members are dragged to the front and blades are raised to strike them. King’s face is hard; there’s no sign of regret, remorse, pain that he ordered his queen killed. Next group of family members are brought forward. Shin stops as he sees an old man. 

Eunuch: What are you doing? Bring the criminal to his knees!  (King’s face still showing no regret, remorse, sorrow that he ordered his queen killed.) 

Captain comes running, stops and kneels in FRONT of the queen’s body, screams “How could you do this? (“This” is the queen. The camera focuses on her dead body.) Have you no fear for the gods?” 

King: It’s not like the heavens have ever taken your side. (How can he say “your side” when that is HIS queen lying on the ground? She should have been considered HIS side.  Also, he has clear view of her supine body, but he shows no sign of regret, remorse, suffering that he ordered her killed. His taunting words that the god has abandoned the queen and “her side” signify that he is unmoved by her blood.) 

King’s face: eyebrows raised, lips curled. These facial expressions show disdain. Shin stares up at him.

Eunuch: Having that sinner gaze upon us is making me dizzy. (King’s frowns and squints his eyes.) Strike him down now!

After the Eunuch orders his body thrown out, the King stares and turns away without waiting for his umbrella escort to follow him. Shin glances back at the queen who briefly opens her eyes then closes them again. A tear drops again. Camera focuses on the ring. 

 

See that?

At this point, to say that he was pained by her death is pure speculation and unsupported by the script.  As seen in Episode 1, there is no evidence in the script that the King was moved by her death. He was in fact pitiless when he ordered her killed.  The queen HERSELF knew too, when her tear dropped the first time, that he was going to be ruthless, and kill her. That’s why she said, “And if this the end for me, then such is my fate.”  She’s resigned to her death. 

That's why I’m hoping that the writer will provide the backstory we need to judge the King’s and Queen’s actions fairly. Because as it stands, there's nothing. 

Lastly, I’ve watched the crying scene in question and frankly, I can argue it both ways -- that he is queen or that he is king -- and I provide supporting proofs for each side.  lol. The fact that I cannot prove beyond reasonable doubt that he is the king WARNS me that there is more to the king/queen business than meets the eye.  It isn't an open-and-shut case. Other people might be satisfied and contented to have this issue settled as early as the Episode 1, but you know me, @phikyl I require a preponderance of clear and convincing evidence before I decide one way or the other.  lol. 

I can cite AT LEAST four things that are inconsistent with the Grim Reaper being the king. Namely,

1) the DOMINANCE of Sunny in their dating relationship is comparable to the king’s SUPREMACY over the queen. She orders him to call her up and meet with him. Most of the time, he cowers when he's with her. He's intimidated by her. 

2) the Grim Reaper’s LACK of telephone, of name, of business card, of “reputable” job, etc., is comparable to the DEFICIENCIES of a non-royal like the queen-in-training.  He's always lacking in something, did you notice that? 

3) the Reaper’s REHEARSED RESPONSES are similar to the GROOMING of the queen-in-training for the royal court. He needs to give her the right answers so he practices (I’m 34 years old, My birthday is on November 5, I’m a Sagittarius, my blood type is AB, I’m single, I rent…).  This is like the queen-in-training who needs to know how to walk elegantly and practices it. He’s being coached on how to behave with her although he’s never stiff, tongue-tied or awkward with other people. To me, there’s something DYSFUNCTIONAL about the way he interacts and converses with Sunny. It isn't normal. It’s like he’s under a spell or something. And if that’s love, I don’t want any of it. lol.

4) their DISPARATE reactions when they see the ring.  The reaction of the Reaper is visceral and tear-inducing (he’s like Gollum with his Preciousssss) while Sunny’s reaction was that of a typical girl who is proud and delighted to have a pretty ring from a handsome suitor. 

Try as I might, I can find no rhyme nor reason for these four inconsistencies in their characters. That’s why even if I have to wait until Episode 15 to figure things out, I can be patient.  I like the mental exercise, anyway. It keeps my brain cells from atrophying. 

It’s been a long day, and even a longer one tomorrow. Merry Christmas. 

p.

 

Soompi ate up my words. Damn it.

I would be glad to be the devil's advocate hahah. Though cautionary message: I [might] suck at it..

For one thing, one reason is enough for the Reaper to be the queen. Look at his laundry skills! He/she is just so good at it lol. No wonder, he's so un-gent [lady] like in that context. He is also stingy, but more in a wife like way, for example : keeping receipts and doing the proper things, like going to bed on time or telling eating too much is unhealthy for your health? That's more what the girls would say or act right.[ I might come off as a sexist, lol but I'm not one :S, and this is just a speculation in a general sense].

Jokes apart, I agree with all that you said, mostly.  The king was cold,broody type, and same goes for sunny, who is always ordering people around, and quite straightforward with her questions, or accusations, which doesn't suit her pretty [girl everyone would love to date] character.

But then again I could say that , we still don't know what was the queen like, all that we heard from her was that she gave Shin the consent to go forward, to sort it out with the king, as if she knew what was ahead, she 'accepted' her fate, but for what? Somehow all the mysteries head back to ep 1, the stage where the plights started. We still don't know why the king was seething with anger, and what made him so jealous and insecure of Shin..where as Shin himself always took him as his friend, and well wisher. So was there some kind of miscommunication which ignited the whole event?

At this point, we are still at 0-0. We still don't know anything about either the king or queen, and what would made them 'GR-Sunny'  in the present life. There are some innuendos,but they are not solid or pointing at either sunny or the reaper. Besides, the Reaper and Shin have some memorable relationship by now, they are bickering and biting each other's skin, but then again there's some invisible support system, so there's the hidden trust underneath the whole his,his, whose,whose. But we are yet at dark about the whole picture of king and Shin, and whether that's entitled to that great a 'camaraderie-bonding-trust' as the reaper and Shin are at , right now, if you know what I mean. 

Also I remember, Reaper can touch anyone and recall their past lives. So that little description can't be there for nothing. Unless he would touch sunny at some point, and then remember that she is the reason of his death from the past life, why would this small detail be part of his power? 

At this stage, we could name this drama 'the ring' considering how the ring seems to know more about what happened that day or in the past than any of those humans/non-humans.But I'm not sure of the writer's talent and whether she would be able to pull off the story wisely if reaper is queen and vice-versa. You could question, why sunny would be just the king, and what is his/her punishment in that? What is the price he/she would have to pay this time? And his one has to be something greater,heavier than both Shin and the queen, as whatever we may say, the king 'is' the worst of them all, at least that's how we judge the actions up till now.

Anyway I am still taking cues from your posts, and would 'dare you to answer' if I can find any incongruities hehe. Until then, happy holidays to you and all of you [girls,guys] in the thread! 

[Chi Le]

The ET age was noticeable enough for the crew. Is there a way that we can demand more screen time for sunny and grim reader. I still see that their chemistry is stronger than the main couple, now even better than bromance. We get 90 mins of ET & GB and may be only 5 minutes of Sunny and GR, they deserve more screen time than that

[itzibitzispider]

Merry Christmas to you all 

[Princi_86]

Guys, Here is accurate translation of text preview. Accurate because some by Korean who's English teacher. 

Luckily Shin catches Eun tak. Seeing Euntak shed tears of relief evokes a far greater pain that is uncomparable to the pain of the sword.

Meanwhile the grim reaper feels a deep longing for the woman in the picture, and dukhwa makes a shocking revelation that makes the grimm reaper surprised.

And Euntak's encounter with death! Will she be able to make it?

 

[Guest ktiminie]

@selenette 1000 thanks for translating GR's book "Female Risk", I was so curious about it

This is interesting, I can totally see how our reaper is the "Wife Boy" type, though not that young LOL, and Sunny is the Alpha Girl. hehehe, Sociology was my favorite matter in University, thanks again!

-------------

Here is some k-netizen fan art

Cr. as tagged

Hope I'll be able to live stream today cause it was lagging so much yesterday, thanks in advance to the live recappers

[NRGchick]

I hope the usual complaint about age doesn't start popping up again.

In dramas, there will always be the main leads and secondary leads. Of course we would expect more from the main leads and we are also not ignoring the secondary leads. I feel that we can see development from both couples ( and thank God there are no love triangles or rectangles or whatever shape out there). 

I would also love to find out what exactly was the trigger for Bride to be able to touch the sword and even pull it out of Dokkaebi's chest. Love? Does it take both parties or just one? Does it take the strong will of the Dokkaebi to live which would create this conundrum of leading to his eventual demise (or back to ashes as the prophecy puts it) since his Bride will be able to draw out the sword when he wants to live?

In my deepest heart,  I still believe that the CEO that Eun Tak meets when she is 29 will be the CEO of the hotel (which happens to belong to Dokkaebi aka Shin) so I am holding out on that hope.

PS. When will Eun Tak see Dokkaebi as a man and not someone who can cast her out of the house? I feel that she is already jealous of this 'woman' who may be Dokkaebi's real bride and worries the real bride may be pretty. (She still does not see herself as pretty even though Dokkaebi has said this at least twice).

So many more mysteries to unravel and the good thing is that we have many episodes to go to find out the answers!

And also to all who celebrate :  MERRY CHRISTMAS! 

 

[SunnySun26]

18 minutes ago, Chi Le said:

The ET age was noticeable enough for the crew. Is there a way that we can demand more screen time for sunny and grim reader. I still see that their chemistry is stronger than the main couple, now even better than bromance. We get 90 mins of ET & GB and may be only 5 minutes of Sunny and GR, they deserve more screen time than that

 

I don't think so, they will have their moments but the main characters are Goblin and ET, and even the drama name is Goblin, the story is about a goblin. Sunny and GR are the secondary couple, if you saw DOTS, Myung-soo and Dae-young never got much highlight as a couple,especially compared to YSJ and Mo-yeon, they had a few scenes in a ep here and there, both characters had more interaction with the main leads than together and this works the same with most of the dramas with a secondary couple.

[enigmatic_zephy]

55 minutes ago, packmule3 said:

@hushhh --

3:40 am here where I am  so I'm only giving myself 5 minutes to type this. I won't have time to respond tomorrow and I don't want to leave you hanging....

the reason for Goblim and Grimmy's forced cohabitation was actually said by ET in Episode 4. This is an inside joke. (Just like in R88 and other rom-coms. You won't get it until you do a rewatch.)  Shin asked ET why would she stay in the same house as the Reaper when Reaper wants her dead. And her response is extemporaneous: because it is always darkest under the lamp.

hahahaha. 

in our American idiom, she's saying "you miss what is right under your very nose." 

That's the dramatic irony in Episode 6, when he was giving away the scroll. He remarked that it was too bad he couldn't locate the people he needed to find....

Of course!  he missed the reincarnated queen because the queen was right under the lamp...err...his nose.

See? The writer's sneaky. Wordplay. 

I'll answer the other things quickly. 

Yes, because of pronoun ambiguity inherent in the Korean language, it's possible that he ordered Shin's family dead. I had considered that possibility.  But I say the first command was directed at her because only ONE arrow flew and it went straight to her heart. Bullseye! No other arrow followed. 

As for betrayal of King, that's a possibility. But as the script stands right now, without further backstory, it can only be speculative and not a basis for establishing motive or rationale for the carnage. The EXPLICIT reason for the killings, as told by the narrator, is the king's jealousy for his general's increased and increasing popularity. 

 

 

but  then why does director keep inserting random frames of sunny everytime a mention of queen is there (ofocurse completely disregrding what we know from pronotional confirmations that GR is king n not queen)

[enigmatic_zephy]

anyone knows whic is dis song - ipuni ipuni.. that plays when goblin holds et's hand n runs from bus stop to university for exm in ep 7

same song played in cafe in last ep when sunny took GR for coffee and asked name