[Mainland Chinese Drama 2017-2018] Nirvana in Fire: The Wind Blows in Changlin 琅琊榜之凤起长林

[40somethingahjumma]

@zenya22 

Not a problem. I think there was a medical dilemma to begin with but at the end of the day, it was peripheral, the core issue being about PZ's choice. And as I've said a few pages ago, PZ also wanted PJ to experience life in a way that he hadn't previously. For PZ, he's enjoyed the love of a family despite being adopted, accomplished much in public, had been highly respected and had been happily married to a woman he loved. In many ways, PJ had barely begun to find his footing. He was still learning and very much reliant on his father and brother although he wasn't without talents of his own.

It was in a conversation later with LX that PJ found out about PZ's apology while donating his blood. She also knew that it was possible that PJ would never forgive her when he found out but she made her choice and was willing to accept the consequences that would follow.

 

Without spoiling too much for you, I think that when PJ realises that there are things that he's capable of doing that others can't, that he can make his contribution to the greater good, he will start to embrace life and love more fully.

 

The beauty of NiF 2 is the affirmation of the importance of family and how important functional, strong families with good moral values are in producing the next generation of upright leaders... movers and shakers. As people have already noted, most families in C dramas tend to be dysfunctional and the drama comes from intra-family conflict. But this show proves that done well, a loving family with strong bonds can be very watchable indeed.

I believe it was @JoycceeDreamer who brought up the issue of how unappreciated the Changlin family seem to be in the story. From our perspective I imagine that's true. However I don't think the royal court think in those terms. It's politics so it's about the balance of power. Everyone has their part to play but no one should encroach into another's sphere or get too big for their boots. In theory that's all good but in practice that's another thing. Also there's the human element. Jealousy, fear etc. Some of the reaction to Changlin's increasing influence isn't necessarily personal but just about keeping them in check that they don't overreach. The problem for me at least is how this notion of overreach is defined here. It's too nebulous, too driven by fear. This is where the tension lies. When the throne was inhabited by a stronger more experienced ruler, he could be the final arbiter and shift the goal posts accordingly.

Spoiler

 

In this case I could make the argument that the cabinet has overreached by trying to influence an inexperienced sovereign to stop an army on the eve of a major skirmish. Sure GS Xun is politically savvy and knows that he needs to go through the emperor first so that he will have justification for preventing the army from going into battle. The question then is to what extent the civilian government has the right to micromanage what goes on in the battlefield. How much of it could be considered an overreach? Shouldn't generals have a freer hand in determining when a battle should be fought especially when they have repeatedly shown themselves capable of making the right decisions about the enemy? PJ had already personally determined that Prince Kang was resolved to fight despite being asked to hold by his own sovereign. He had written to his father to seek his counsel. The solar eclipse was an opportunity of a lifetime to properly cripple the enemy without sustaining much losses on their side. By all accounts it was a heaven sent opportunity to deal with an ongoing problem.

 

Of course we know that GS Xun and YQ are not interested in what's best in the overall scheme of things but to grasp any opportunity to denounce the House of Changlin and undermine their authority by hiding behind the emperor's authority. It's like one of Aesop's Fables about the fox and the lion.

 

Politics like war is like a chess game. It isn't so much about likes or dislikes but usefulness. Anybody can be useful where they are if they do a good job but if they seem to be stepping out of their bounds, they can become dangerous.

 

 

[ForgottenSoulx]

 

this drunk sword scene is my fave scene from the drama i loved how he moved haha ;p

[40somethingahjumma]

9 hours ago, SyntaxError said:

 

My interpretation is slightly different - I think PYY did not expect PZ to actually use his life to save PJ. PYY's life story is about how his entire family, especially his brother and mother, prioritised themselves instead of their family (e.g. mother giving the last medicine to his brother instead). He did not believe that any relationship could be as genuine and self-sacrificing as the one between the Changlin brothers. Hence his legitimate surprise when PZ did not hesitate to reach his hand in and take the box.

 

Okay I can see why you think that but I personally thought he was just taunting PZ at the time. It's interesting we have these different perspectives but I probably didn't watch the scene as well as I should have. It sounds like he was trying to prove that when there was only one route and that was to retreat and leave thereby rendering the bond between the brothers a mere illusion. I would put it slightly differently... PYY's life story... or at least the bits we're privy to... is one where he plays second fiddle to his younger twin brother. A brother who made it to the next level of the Yelin training and the brother who got the pill because it was more expedient to do so. In contrast we have another two brothers who are not related by blood at all but one brother is called upon to literally give his blood (and life) and does so willingly.

 

In my defence  my reason for believing that PYY believed that PZ would give his life for his brother was because of a scene that comes earlier which has PYY's lackey asking Dear Nutty Leader if this scheme would work and if PZ would come because they're not brothers related by blood. If memory serves his (PYY's) response was that blood ties don't necessarily matter. Then he says something about blood relations sometimes being more ruthless or vicious than strangers. On top of that, PYY says that his target was never PJ... so yeah... that's what gave me the impression that he knew what PZ would do.

 

 

[40somethingahjumma]

 

This is probably my favourite fight sequence... the last time that PJ faces off DTZ. PJ might be impetuous but he hasn't completely lost his mind. He manages to lure Tuoba Yu to the fight by telling him that DTZ is his closest Langya list rival and uses his sword to absorb DTZ's palm manoeuvre with his sword.

 

5 hours ago, rhaps said:

Regarding PYY, I think he intended to kill PZ through PJ, like what his student said. He knew that PJ was precious to PZ, so he calculated that PZ would sacrifice himself. Then again, he also doubted that, based on his own experience after being abandoned by his mother. So, this became somekind of a 'game' for him. Which one that PZ would choose : was it himself or the brother?

 

Afterall, PYY was intelligent but twisted. His aim was revenge, so even if PZ chose himself, then it would be fine, coz the death of PJ would still inflict pain in the Chang Lin family. He even didnt mind to be killed by Yuanqi, knowing that Yuanqi became worse than before and would become a thorn in the Liang kingdom. This guy was really crazy

 

Such a bitterly twisted fellow. An utter nutjob. But then he did commit fratricide. And deceived even his own followers about his identity. I'd definitely agree with the gaming aspect to his plots. Hence the Joker comparisons. He's a master manipulator in that he taps into people's fears and desires rather calmly but he doesn't force them into anything but gives them just enough of a nudge along.  Once he killed his own twin, there was nothing he couldn't do to anyone else. (You can't be more blood related than being an identical twin. Such a compelling contrast to PZ and PJ... who are not blood related and even while knowing his father favours his older brother, there's no resentment at all)

Half the time when PYY's playing mind games one can never be sure how he really feels. I guess we just have to take much of what he says with a pinch of salt.

 

This thread's moved quite a bit the last couple of days... it's great... hope this keeps up.  

 

 

[ForgottenSoulx]

2 hours ago, 40somethingahjumma said:

 

O

 

 

it was pretty obvious that PZ would give his life for PYY honestly when you consider episodes before he rushes to save PJ , it works both ways also i think both PZ and PJ would give their lifes for each other. 

[40somethingahjumma]

1 hour ago, rhaps said:

 

I've been trying to keep my mind off those previews *lol - there are new ones, btw*. Monday seems so far away :D . Hoping to see more pretty pics here

Where are these new ones you speaketh of... I can't for the life of me find them. 

 

 

4 hours ago, Wotad said:

it was pretty obvious that PZ would give his life for PYY honestly when you consider episodes before he rushes to save PJ , it works both ways also i think both PZ and PJ would give their lifes for each other. 

True... but I think PYY was also trying to prove that the bond between the Changlin brothers was something of a facade. Either way, he'd get no end of satisfaction.

[zenya22]

9 hours ago, 40somethingahjumma said:

he beauty of NiF 2 is the affirmation of the importance of family and how important functional, strong families with good moral values are in producing the next generation of upright leaders... movers and shakers. As people have already noted, most families in C dramas tend to be dysfunctional and the drama comes from intra-family conflict. But this show proves that done well, a loving family with strong bonds can be very watchable indeed

I really love how they portrayed the women of the Changlin family, how intelligent, supportive and strong they are. XX for example, how she supported  even the most difficult of her husband's decision. When commander Xun went to the manor to stop or dissuade PZ from giving blood to PJ, XX  blocked him with a sword. I love her. And personally, (that is why I have a problem with Master LI) I would choose LX as my doctor any day. Why because she practices wholistically, taking into consideration the whole picture, the mental, psychological, the family dynamics aside from just the physical and considered all options. It was an emergency situation and she had to decide quickly but she sat down with the couple and listened to their choices. I wish I can find a doctor like her. I love her character too.  She and Lady X are easily my favorites. 

[imhoooked]

I've been really busy these days, I have a really important exam but couldn't avoid go and watch all episodes available today, even tho I don't understand chinese 

Thank you for the translations, I could understand some parts after all, the acting is so good that you can catch some talkings even if you don't understand the language. I can't wait for the next episodes, the preview for ep 38 is lit 

[40somethingahjumma]

20 hours ago, zenya22 said:

I really love how they portrayed the women of the Changlin family, how intelligent, supportive and strong they are. 

I do as well and I think it's a highlight of the series that Xiao Xue and Lin Xi have their heads screwed on tightly on those capable shoulders. I love that they're so understanding of their men as well. They're so impossibly selfless that it boggles my mind. I'm in awe of how patient Lin Xi is of PJ especially in these recent days when he's having a hard time looking her in the eye. But she's there behind the scenes trying not to get in the way and doing her bit. They're certainly a stark contrast to that woman who is a sorry excuse for an empress -- an embarrassment truly.

 

20 hours ago, rhaps said:

 

Regarding dr Li, he is a typical idealist person who holds on to his principals. A person like that is usually strict and appears to be inflexible. Then again, he actually still allows LX, his student. to 'break the rules', which indicates that he considers LX's feeling toward PJ. But, he wont allow himself to make the same violation.

Although I understand that it was PZ's choice to sacrifice himself, I respect Master Li choice too because from his perspective it's a slippery slope. Once a physician starts crossing certain lines, there's no turning back. I don't want to be too critical of Master Li. He's provided medical care to hundreds and thousands of people over the years personally and through Ji Feng Hall. He's saved a lot of lives and he was providing medical care to the people of Ye Qin during the epidemic at risk to himself. This is a man who has put his own life on the line his entire life.

[zenya22]

On 1/18/2018 at 6:06 AM, liddi said:

However, he proved me wrong and made Xiao Pingzhang his own, giving him a gravitas, warmth and strength of character that made his loss all the more painful to watch. Sun Chun's Xiao Tingsheng is easily my favourite of all the characters - his wisdom, unfailing love and loyalty for his sons, his brother and king, and his country, and his incorruptible moral compass, steering his own life and shining the beacon with which his sons would live and die by. The unshakeable bonds of family, encompassing and transcending blood-ties are the fabric of this epic tale, making it doubly heartbreaking as we see each and every one of them fall - Pingzhang, the King, and now Xiao Tingsheng... men whose ties remain unbroken, unchanging, despite the turbulence of their respective pasts and the shifting landscape of their times. 

 

What sets this drama apart from most of the rest, is also its portrayal of the kings. When even its predecessor featured a ruthless and evil king, Nirvana in Fire 2 gave us first a wise king, whose love for his adopted brother was so great that even on his deathbed, his only concern was how to protect Xiao Tingsheng from the enemies that wait eagerly to tear him and the legacy of Changlin down. With his successor, we see not a weak king, but a young, inexperienced one - one who took his father's counsel to heart, to respect and trust Xiao Tingsheng. While his fears had swayed his resolve, I am hopeful that he too, would in turn, look deep into his own heart and make the right decisions at the critical moments, growing up to be a king worthy of Changlin's loyalty and the blood of Changlin men who died to secure his reign.

 

There are two versions of the closing theme 清平愿 - the female version sung by 黄绮珊, and the male's by 多亮. Its lyrics never fail to move me to tears... and is such a perfect depiction of the Changlin family who would live and die to secure peace in the land of Liang.

 

唤男儿归来战北方
Summon the men to return and fight in the north

寸心寸血挽长缰
Inch by inch of heart and blood, the reins are pulled

论豪气何曾怨悲凉
Only pride and courage, no resentment or sorrow

清平世间享
That peace may be enjoyed throughout the world

@liddiSorry to cut your post. I always love reading your  posts. Your are right, knowing the translations for the song makes it powerfully poignant and moving. I cried. Yes, Ting Sheng is all you described him to be. From what is known about his father (even though he was never told about him), his father had the same qualities. As, for the young emperor, I hope that he will learn the history of the Changlin army and the Changlin house . That they were named by his grandfather Emperor Jing, as they were the army, when at the time Great Liang was under attack by a group of nations to the north and South and his great uncles, aunt and many brave men and women fought and some died to win those wars (and honor for his big bro). Now, the young emperor's uncle, the Empress brother, cited a precedent that emperors reformed the palace guards when they first ascend the throne. However, it was not just the palace guards, they wanted to reform but they want to extend it to the army for no other reason than greed and ambition. I like Ting Sheng's preemptive action bestowing the military tally to PJ and making him the Changlin Army Military General. I am also happy that Commander Xun supports the Changlin House. He will make General Meng proud. 

[xienrue]

Hi, there. I am new to this forum. I was a lurker but I cannot help myself wanting to discuss the drama together with all of you.

 

When Nirvana in Fire sequel news was published, I had my doubt. Sequel usually doesn't end well, especially when the predecessor is very good (which it is in this case). I gave this sequel a try out of boredom, ready to drop it if I found the first episode to be bad. First episode enamored me with the bromance ....... The rest is history and here I am

 

I love PJ character. He is very adorable little brother. Feizhan once said that PJ was dotted by everyone since he was little. We can see that from early episode until the current one. He is pretty much still dotted by almost everyone even when he is already become a General . If I had a little brother like that, I think I will spoiled him too.  Sometimes I feel that Tingsheng may favor PZ more but it was PJ who he is most protective of.

 

The politics annoyed me, mainly because of the Empress and officials who never know what a war is. I wait the time when Chang Lin falls and PJ no longer there to protect them. Hopefully the Empress and her brother don't die easily. I want them to regret their actions and repent.

[40somethingahjumma]

Hi @xienrue  Welcome to Soompi and to the NiF 2 thread!

It's lovely to hear from you and yes, there are so many things to discuss so feel free to jump in and keep posting your thoughts.

 

I think many of us felt the same when the sequel was announced... how could a sequel to a show of NiF's calibre come close to its predecessor in execution but here we are indeed... not just watching but eagerly awaiting new episodes from week to week.

 

I also find PJ rather sweet. While he has his flaws, he certainly has his charms too. I'm always amazed at how much energy he has... it feels like all he does is run from one place to another. I think that his open temperament is what endeared him to people and it was something that they all wanted to be able to preserve for as long as they could especially in a place riddled with politics. 

 

Anyhow, it's a great show and I hope that's the case all the way to the end.

[zenya22]

21 hours ago, rhaps said:

I think she and PJ are very compatible. Despite having mostly opposite characters, they both share the same free spirit and unrestrained tendency. 

 

Regarding dr Li, he is a typical idealist person who holds on to his principals. A person like that is usually strict and appears to be inflexible. Then again, he actually still allows LX, his student. to 'break the rules', which indicates that he considers LX's feeling toward PJ. But, he wont allow himself to make the same violation.

I do love the men too of Changlin, Commander Xun despite his relation to the despicable Xun duo, he is his own man and stands for what he believes is right and Master Li.

 

Maybe it was the translation that was the problem for me with Master Li, he was faced with a problematic choice that was ethically challenging. The question unleashed by a madman and to top it all there was a war in the north where the father was basically trapped and PZ the older son was needed to resolve it. The ethical question of "whom does one save" between brothers was now faced by Master Li. Many people dependent on the resolution of the war and the political ingenuity of PZ would have wanted PZ to be alive including Commander Xun. When I rewatched that episode, I saw Master Li as a doctor struggled. It is natural because he is a healer, to not want to help someone die. My problem here maybe is the translation or the presentation of how he resolved the dilemma within himself when he says, "I am sticking to my principles, I don't want to help someone die" and walks away. That is cold and as if he gave up. That is something that the Master Li, the Master Healer I know would not do. Maybe if the translation would have been "I am working to see if I can come up with any alternatives, let LX help you because I am not convinced this is the best solution or something like that. It then does not sound like a rejection. But it was an ethical struggle for any doctor. LX bore the burden with strength and dignity to the credit of being a student of Master Li. I don't think there were rules that was broken but an ethical problem that needed a resolution. It was the heroism and bravery of PZ again that resulted in a resolution. 

 

Speaking of Commander Xun, do you think he has a crush on XX, the way he looks at her ....although I think it will take a long time before XX will ever look at another man. 

[Cheerie]

My interpretation : Master Li felt PZ shd hv have healed himself and go to the war. He cant bring himself to do the tranfusion part. Not sure if i m correct. 

 

Add: i remembered Master Li telling PZ that he can save himself by taking the bladder as his poison is still in early stage. 

[xienrue]

56 minutes ago, zenya22 said:

Speaking of Commander Xun, do you think he has a crush on XX, the way he looks at her ....although I think it will take a long time before XX will ever look at another man. 

 

I don't know if it can be said as crush. But Commander Xun indeed has soft spot for XX. I think in their childhood, the commander had that feeling but since XX already married to PZ, that feeling perhaps evolved into deep brother sister affection.

 

I believe he doesn't have any intention to make XX looks at him even though PZ has died.

[liddi]

 

@zenya22 Finally found the official MV for 黄绮珊's version of 清平愿 on Youtube - breaking my heart all over again, particularly that last shot, with the falling Changlin flag... symbolising the fall of the family who had given their all for their country. There is also yet unseen footage here, giving us an inkling of what is to come.

 

 

I approach the last 14 episodes with no little trepidation. I have no qualms about the script and direction - the standard it has set is a positive indication of how it would end. My only real concern is when Pingjing is the only one left standing. The first 27 episodes was centered on the bond between the Changlin men, and undeniably defined by the excellent ensemble performances of the three men. In the next 9 episodes, Sun Chun's unforgettable Xiao Tingsheng was the steady rock holding the family and drama together. As we approach the final lap with Pingjing alone, I hope that Liu Haoran, having done well so far, will successfully carry the mantle and deliver all the way to the end.

[zenya22]

47 minutes ago, liddi said:

Finally found the official MV for 黄绮珊's version of 清平愿 on Youtube - breaking my heart all over again, particularly that last shot, with the falling Changlin flag... symbolising the fall of the family who had given their all for their country. There is also yet unseen footage here, giving us an inkling of what is to come.

@liddi thank you so much, I am preparing my hankies and tissues

[xienrue]

3 hours ago, 40somethingahjumma said:

@xienrue

 

I also find PJ rather sweet. While he has his flaws, he certainly has his charms too. I'm always amazed at how much energy he has... it feels like all he does is run from one place to another. I think that his open temperament is what endeared him to people and it was something that they all wanted to be able to preserve for as long as they could especially in a place riddled with politics. 

 

Anyhow, it's a great show and I hope that's the case all the way to the end.

I agree with you here. It feels so easy to be friends with PJ with his temperament. I think both Tingshen and PZ are in a dilemma about what to do with PJ. In one hand, they wish for him to be maturing and helping their work but in the other hand, they also don't want him to take any risk or in any dangerous situation. Well, if they really want PJ to be in military he will have to take a risk sooner or later. It is part of the job. This complex situation is one of things that make Chang Lin family very interesting.

 

46 minutes ago, liddi said:

@zenya22 Finally found the official MV for 黄绮珊's version of 清平愿 on Youtube - breaking my heart all over again, particularly that last shot, with the falling Changlin flag... symbolising the fall of the family who had given their all for their country. There is also yet unseen footage here, giving us an inkling of what is to come.

 

 

I approach the last 14 episodes with no little trepidation. I have no qualms about the script and direction - the standard it has set is a positive indication of how it would end. My only real concern is when Pingjing is the only one left standing. The first 27 episodes was centered on the bond between the Changlin men, and undeniably defined by the excellent ensemble performances of the three men. In the next 9 episodes, Sun Chun's unforgettable Xiao Tingsheng was the steady rock holding the family and drama together. As we approach the final lap with Pingjing alone, I hope that Li Haoran, having done well so far, will successfully carry the mantle and deliver all the way to the end.

  I cannot open the video in my country ....

 

But from the new footage in the ending song and from existing preview, I think PJ will left the government service altogether (before coming back again to save the emperor re-take his throne). I hope he isn't fired as a form of punishment but left voluntarily. Even though PJ already said that his responsibility is toward the people not the capital, he already suffers so much. Young or not, I won't have any respect to Yuanshi if he again let himself manipulated by his mother and uncle to punish PJ harshly. Watching the later episodes with Yuanshi acting like a kite controlled by his mother and uncle infuriate me. I know he is still young, thus prone to manipulation but still .......

[liddi]

@xienrue I'm sorry you could not view the video. Hopefully one of these links - Iqiyi   QQ will help. If all else fails, try this one.

 

I do think that Pingjing will retreat to Langya Hall for a while, but return to save the king when Yuanqi revolts. From the male version of the MV, we see the Changlin Manor plaque being taken down and the manor doors closing on someone dressed in full mourning garments, presumably Pingjing. It could well be that while he may have escaped death for disobeying the king's decree, the punishment meted out in its place is the dissolution of Changlin Manor and army, and Pingjing's banishment. My two cents anyway...

[xienrue]

@liddiThank you for the video!! I can watch it.

 

The raw next week (episode 37-42) will be both heart wrenching and annoying I suppose. Heart wrenching because of the PJ sufffering, annoying because all those dumb officials ...... and of course the empress.