Jump to content
Travel around the KDrama World & collect your stamps!

selenette

Members
 View Profile  See their activity

  • Posts

    1,494

  • Joined

  • Last visited

 Content Type 

Posts posted by selenette

    [Drama 2016-2017] Guardian: The Lonely and Great Goblin 도깨비

    in k-dramas & movies

    Posted · Edited by selenette

    @maryofbethany  I added Kim Sun's and Ophelia's flower allusions into the Shakespeare post. I really love your Disney posts, but I must say the Pride and Prejudice one is my favorite, because it's my favorite story, too! With Kim Shin as tsundere Darcy and Eun-tak as feisty Lizzie, maybe Wang Yeo is the more terrible version of gullible Bingley, and Sunny a stronger, but similarly faithful and forgiving Jane. :D :D

    @hairuchii and @Chellsee  Thank you for the translation and its video, I was looking for that BTS ever since I watched that club scene. Poor Lee Dong-wook, he egged on an overly animated Gong Yoo and his nose was hit as a result! Glad to see how the ad libs helped in bringing the scene to life! :D:D. 

    Thanks for the new stills, too, @aurelly and chellsee dears. I bet they give us those and hide the sad ones to keep us from rioting.

    @RobinM brilliant commentary, as always.

    @supergal99 You and dear maryofbethany crack me up with the Jedi joke. I remember doing live recaps for Ep 12 and laughed because she said "may the force be with you" when Kim Shin wielded his sword at evil eunuch.

     

     

     

    • Like 8

    [Drama 2016-2017] Guardian: The Lonely and Great Goblin 도깨비

    in k-dramas & movies

    Posted · Edited by selenette

    43 minutes ago, maryofbethany said:

    @selenette good gracious... u did it. was waiting for this. well done. haha where does my ET fix in? was still hoping there will be some cookies and surprise that she might be actually present during Goryeo period,, in a lesser role.... curious... curious!!
    haha. this thread has wander into the Brontë , the Austen, even the Disney.. wow... now the Bard even... yeah, its high time bring on the link since Shin took credits for his "Not to be" being the inspiration of masterpiece. hahah

     

    I added some stuff in my post! Thanks so much for reading it, I was inspired by your Pride&Prejudice as well as Beauty & the Beast posts.

    All I can say is, dear @maryofbethany , Hamlet, Othello, and Laertes needed an Eun-tak in their lives. If only she was there, those guys wouldn't've been so suicidal. :lol::lol:  She would've knocked some sense into their thick skulls.

    • Like 8

    [Drama 2016-2017] Guardian: The Lonely and Great Goblin 도깨비

    in k-dramas & movies

    Posted · Edited by selenette
    Pics and themes and stuff. And dear maryofbethany :)

    @staygold and @maryofbethany   Here is my Shakespeare post... I hope you enjoy it.

    "SOMETHING IS ROTTEN IN THE STATE OF GORYEO",

     OR, 

    "BEWARE, YOUR MAJESTY, OF JEALOUSY"

    (Sorry, I couldn't resist copying the Bard's title pages :D )

    20150626174727515_6081401.jpg

    Cr: Dorota Gorecka (2015)

     

    After Kim Shin proudly announced that William Shakespeare's "'Hamlet" was inspired by his existential ambiguity (Ep 6), I found connections between Goblin and two of the Bard's plays. "Othello" and "Hamlet". @hushhh  found its connection to "The Winter's Tale" 

    So here we go. First, some introductions to anyone who is interested.

    General Storyline of Othello

    Spoiler

    In Venice, a Moor general named Othello was driven to overwhelming jealousy of his wife, Desdemona, after much insinuation of her unfaithfulness by Iago, a trusted ensign. This wasn't true, however, because Iago only wished to destroy Othello's reputation. 

    With the help of Roderigo, a misguided and dissolute man, and a flighty courtesan named Bianca, Iago managed to drive Othello to fury.

    Othello later assaulted Cassio (whom he thought was Desdemona's lover), and killed Desdemona. Roderigo was later killed by Cassio in defense.

    In the end, Othello killed himself after discovering his late wife's innocence. Iago was punished by torture. 

     

    General Storyline of Hamlet

    Spoiler

    After the suspicious death of his father, Hamlet, the Prince of Denmark, was haunted by the father's ghost. The ghost informed him that King Claudius, who had remarried Queen Gertrude (Hamlet's mother), poisoned him. 

    Hamlet was preoccupied by the revelation that he kept his distance from everyone including Ophelia, his lover. 

    At one point in the story, he killed Polonius, Ophelia's father, for eavesdropping on his plan for revenge. This sent Ophelia into madness, grief and death. 

    Ophelia's and her father's deaths set her brother out on the path of revenge against Hamlet.

    Eventually, King Claudius died from Hamlet's poison. Laertes also killed Hamlet by poison, but not before killing Hamlet's mother and himself too. 

     

    Second, onto the comparisons.

    A. OTHELLO 

    Park Joong-hun is Iago of "Othello", while Kim Sun and Wang Yeo are Desdemona and Othello respectively. Kim Shin is also Othello in his "outsider general" aspect of characterization.

    So Othello's characterization is divided in this drama into Wang Yeo and Kim Shin... the gullibility and jealousy is Wang Yeo's, the "otherness"/ "being set apart in highborn society" is Kim Shin's. 

    Othello was set apart because he was a Moor in a predominantly white society, whereas Kim Shin was set apart because his family wasn't considered noble enough.

    The palace maid is probably Kim Eun-sook's version of the courtesan Bianca in "Othello", i.e. she was a tool of Iago's to achieve his goals.  However, she could be Emilia, Iago's wife who was forced to become his accomplice, but sabotaged his plan.

    In this drama, the maid was probably:

    a. in a cohort with Park Joong-hun for vengeance or political reasons,

    or

    b. his lover of some sort, and hence was promised freedom or material reward 

    or

    c. was obsessed with either Wang Yeo or the Queen throne.

     

    B. HAMLET

    Kim Shin is Hamlet of "Hamlet" (remember the allusion in Ep 6 of Hamlet's indecision--to be or not to be).

    Hamlet's jealousy and grief with regards to Ophelia are transferred to Wang Yeo, with regards to Kim Sun. 

    But Kim Shin's protectiveness for Kim Sun is derived from Laertes' for Ophelia, minus the incest subtext (Laertes' morbid obsession with his sister was incestuous). 

    Therefore, Hamlet's characterization is divided into Wang Yeo and Kim Shin. Kim Shin himself is a combination of both Hamlet and Laertes.

    The triangle of Kim Shin-Kim Sun-Wang Yeo is a distorted version of Laertes-Ophelia-Hamlet.

     

    C. HAMLET AND OTHELLO CROSSOVER

    C.1. DEATH BY POISONING OR SUICIDE

    Wang Yeo either died by poison (like Hamlet), or by committing suicide (like Othello). Of course it is also possible that he simply died of madness, or of other homicidal means.

    Park Joong-hun poisoned the kings before Wang Yeo, and he poisoned the minds of the palace maid and Wang Yeo, just like King Claudius poisoned Hamlet's father, and the minds of Queen Gertrude, Laertes, Rosencrantz, and Guildenstern.

    C.2. DESDEMONA AND OPHELIA

    Kim Sun is a stronger and braver version of both Desdemona and Ophelia. Like Desdemona, she too was killed by her husband, but unlike the Shakespearean character, her husband didn't kill him by his own hands, and she did try to make her case in front of her husband.

    Like Ophelia, Kim Sun was pitted against her brother and her lover (husband) in their conflict, and was forced to make her choice. Unlike Ophelia, she didn't succumb from pressure, and neither did she die in madness.

    All three female characters died in their white dresses.

    EDIT 2: Flowers. Kim Sun was associated with cherry blossom, peach blossom, and magnolia flowers (because of her ring, her hairpiece, and her hanbok). Ophelia was associated with pansies, columbine, fennel, daisies, and a garland of flowers in her madness.

    It was Kim Sun's husband, Wang Yeo, who died of madness (or so it seems from Ep 12 epilogue) and grief. Almost similar to Hamlet and Othello.

    Granted, Hamlet's direct cause of death was poisoning, but he was never free from the thoughts of his culpability in Ophelia's tragic death.

     

    D. THEMES

    With regards to Kim Shin, Kim Sun, and Wang Yeo's backstory, the drama's theme is similar to both "Othello" and "Hamlet".

    D.1. OTHELLO'S THEMES

    Love, jealousy, prejudice, appearance and reality.

    Othello's love for Desdemona was conquered by his jealousy. She could or would not show that she was innocent. 

    Kim Sun tried to prove that neither she nor her brother meant no harm for Wang Yeo, and as a result their love was destroyed by Wang Yeo's jealousy.

    Othello was suspected because of his racial background. Kim Shin was suspected because he was seen as a common swordsman, in spite of his military rank.

    Iago appeared as trustworthy and noble, but in reality he was deceitful and blackhearted.  Park Joong-hun was a trusted eunuch who in reality was a morally depraved criminal.

    D.2. HAMLET'S THEMES 

    Lies and deceit, madness, revenge, mortality (the mysteries of death).

    King Claudius lied a lot and poisoned a lot of people (literally and figuratively). Park Joong-hun poisoned the royal family and the minds of the maid and the king.

    Hamlet's indecision about revenge was a mixture of doubts and madness (from his guilt about Ophelia). His ex-lover Ophelia died of madness, and her brother was driven mad by her death.  I assume Wang Yeo must have died from madness, poisoning, and suicide or homicide. The madness was evident in Ep 12's epilogue.

    Hamlet's main motivation was revenge. The question of revenge always hovers in Kim Shin's background.

    Hamlet's father spoke to him beyond his grave. I suspect Wang Yeo was haunted by the memories of his queen. Kim Shin never forgets the death of his sister. Both he and Wang Yeo still "lives" as immortals.

    ***

    Famous Quote from Othello

    b858ba7adc7d2e4b5d93480631fabe54.jpg

     

    Famous Quote from Hamlet

    ap,220x200,16x12,1,ffffff,t-pad,220x200,

    * * *

     

    Park Joong-hun could be male!Lady Macbeth because he goaded Wang Yeo into injustice. But he didn't seem to be affected by his own wrongdoings, so imho he's more similar to either Iago or King Claudius.

    EDIT: @bebebisous33  I apologize for misunderstanding your post re. Park Joong-hun and the sword.

     

    • Like 21

    [Drama 2016-2017] Guardian: The Lonely and Great Goblin 도깨비

    in k-dramas & movies

    Posted · Edited by selenette

    13 hours ago, nearsea said:

    @bebebisous33 Excellent point, though I'm still confused between so many versions of Shin's sword, all these time we have seen handful of them right? Like when Et got abducted, or when he had to save her from that wife killer man on the rooftop. If not the sword on his chest, then what was that version of the sword representing? 

    Also, I still found the arc on the eunuch so lacking, I just got to know from the updates here that KES has just finished writing her script, so I dare say she was running out of plot? The existence of the ghost for so many years is so out of place, since what great purpose he can still have after being killed ruefully by shin back in Goryeo times? Granted, he has been still lurking in the earth and makes the reaper/god very unhappy because he was having an upper hand over them, but still, this plot trope just doesn't seem very 'intense' [ for lack of better words] ?  I feel the final confrontation should have been between the king and the general, since though we can tell he was young when he committed the crime, but now he's fully grown up. By shoving all the blame on the eunuch we're letting him go, and overlooking his share of responsibility in the whole incident. And we're expecting Shin to forgive him 'by default', but isn't that just too easy? If everyone has a price to pay, and Shin though he was the one being wrong, didn't he pay the heaviest price, being stuck with a sword for so many years when he had no relatives around? But now if he doesn't forgive the king, why would be he the bad guy here? The eunuch is the greatest evil, sure, but to expect Shin forgive the king and not talking about it at all [ the drama doesn't even discuss this issue], isn't that being too lenient on the reaper?

     

    @nearsea  I'm not Ssaem @bebebisous33 here but because of my prying nature (woe is me!) I'm tempted to answer.  I'm sorry 

    I think the sword that Kim Shin brandishes is this drama's version of Korean dokkaebi's club/staff--which is its signature magic, whereas the one lodged in his chest is the one tied to his immortality and symbolizes his ties to humanity and existence, and as bebebisous33 put it, the path to end the evil from 900 years or so back.

    I'd rather see the Eunuch's purpose as the ruin of all parties involved in the gruesome past, because as @staygold posted it, he is the Lady Macbeth of the story (but staygold dear, honestly he is also Iago--I've got a Shakespeare post that I haven't finished for ages... I meant to write it someday, for you and for @maryofbethany I swear). He sees people as tools, because in both life and death he is manipulative, egocentric, and egotistical. As a literary device, such characters help moving the plot onward.

    Imho, bringing the Eunuch back hasn't steered away the conversation from the emotional baggage that still exists between Kim Shin and Wang Yeo... or so I hope. That is why, despite the looming threat on Eun-tak's life, I hope these two men will talk things out, quarrel, and so on, to put matters to right (in a way that wouldn't disturb the story's pacing).

    Wang Yeo had suffered for many years before his Reaping days began (in life, and I suspect, in death.... if what I read from Korean beliefs regarding sinners is applied here) . But I completely agree with you that the king wasn't blameless. He was deceived and manipulated by the eunuch since childhood, but he had an ample amount of time to reflect and understand that he was unjust to his subjects (including the Kim siblings). He has to make up for all he did. 

    I don't think Kim Eun-sook would, in any way, portray Kim Shin as the bad guy for his inability to forgive the king, but neither would she portray Wang Yeo as the solely guilty party here. Whether or not she managed to convince the viewers of the outcome of their conflict, that remains to be seen.

    Which brings me to my last point.

    I thank you for your interesting information on the status of the writer's script. I thought Kim Eun-sook had finished it some time ago, because the scripts with the sageuk backstory (at least Kim So-hyun's part in it) were finished during Ep 9 filming. And I also assumed that the blueprint of this story was written before this drama was aired (which indicates that the writer had her ending and key plots planned from the word go). Your information worries me and I'm reconsidering whether or not I would watch the three episodes next week after Ep 13 this Friday. I'm a quitter type of reader/viewer; if I'm not confident where a story will take me, I quit.

    • Like 16

    [Drama 2016-2017] Guardian: The Lonely and Great Goblin 도깨비

    in k-dramas & movies

    Posted

    @__jesse Greetings! I applaud you for your analysis on Wang Yeo and Kim Sun, as well as your two-part color theory. One thing that I would like to note from the three posts is the connection between Wang Yeo's given name and his character's growth, because naming often play an important role in fiction, and from the many references Kim Eun-sook

    Aside from "black", his given name 黎 also means "dawn" in the phrase 黎明 so I hope it signifies a new beginning for him. I want to believe that his parents loved Yeo enough not to name him "black" or "dark", because his brother clearly did. In addition, I want to believe that he was named Yeo because he was expected to find and/or bring a new beginning.

    * * *

    @bebebisous33 I agree with your analysis that the purpose of Kim Shin's sword was to protect Wang Yeo, their loved ones, and their country. I also agree that Kim Shin would be the one to end Park Joong-hun once and for all, therefore fulfilling his oath to purge the country from the latter's evil. 

    However, I'm not sure if the sword belonged to Park Joong-hun, because Korean swordsmithing culture is outside of either an eunuch's or a scholar's area of interest. Given that Park belonged to one or both of these social classes, it is highly unlikely that he owned the sword.

    So in the chain of events that precluded Kim Shin's war campaign, it was more likely that the sword either belonged to the Wang clan as prized weaponry, or the King had it specially made for Kim Shin by one of his sword artisans.

    Of course, because this drama is not strictly based on history, I could be mistaken.

     

     

     

    • Like 11

    [Drama 2016-2017] Guardian: The Lonely and Great Goblin 도깨비

    in k-dramas & movies

    Posted · Edited by selenette
    ProNUNciation. Grammar is the bane of my life.

    @hushhh  I'm sorry for replying so late. I think it's possible that Wang Yeo was one of those people who prayed for Kim Shin's salvation. Going by the epilogue/preview of Ep 12, Wang Yeo must have spent his final days regretting Kim Sun's death. Since her death was inexorably linked to Kim Shin's, it is possible that he thought of the general, too.

    Especially if Wang Yeo had learned of the extent of Park Joong-hun (I'm going by this spelling based on the actor's pronunciation of the Eunuch's name)'s machinations. The king would then discover how many people the eunuch had ruined, other than himself. 

    But my goodness if Kim Shin ever found out about the prayer, it would bring a whole new level of angst to town.

     

    * * *

    @sooyoungdaebak @libes @winterdew  I'm glad you love the poems. They're poignant but healing, too. Lang Leav is amazing that way. I've saved many of her poems.

     

    • Like 11
    • Popular Post
    • Popular Post

    [Drama 2016-2017] Guardian: The Lonely and Great Goblin 도깨비

    in k-dramas & movies

    Posted · Edited by selenette

    Breaking the tension, here are four beautiful Lang Leav poems that could describe our OTPs WangSun and ShinTak. 

    ShinTak

    Kim Shin to Eun-tak, when he realized that he had fallen so hard for her, (and perhaps later when he found her letter).

    2017_01_12_15_38_14.jpg

     

    Eun-tak to Kim Shin, when she decided that their borrowed time was worth their happiness and the fight for it.

    2017_01_12_15_37_33.jpg

     

    WangSun

    Wang Yeo to Sunny, when he thought of Sunny's questions that he couldn't answer.

    2017_01_12_15_33_05.jpg

     

    Sunny to Wang Yeo, in their awkward dates, and when she admitted that she missed him too.

    2017_01_12_11_06_19.jpg

    I hope the poems can soothe our anxiety in waiting for the four remaining episodes.

    NOTE

    Who is Lang Leav?

    Spoiler

    http://www.statedmag.com/articles/stated-profile-artist-fashion-designer-and-author-lang-leav.html

    https://twitter.com/langleav?s=09

     

    Tagging @Visually-wandering, @maryofbethany, @staygold  , @winterdew , @Princi_86 ... and anyone else who might be interested.

    • Like 35

    [Drama 2016-2017] Guardian: The Lonely and Great Goblin 도깨비

    in k-dramas & movies

    Posted

    25 minutes ago, nearsea said:

    Yeah! And what was he talking about ' This sword's value was that'. I wonder what makes his sword work this time?

    @nearsea I'm going to go by @pnaysurfer84 's conjecture that now Kim Shin has rediscovered that the purpose of his sword is--first and foremost-- to protect, not merely to destroy. Although I beg to differ that the sword was not only made to protect Wang Yeo per se, but also his sister, his loved ones, and his country. 

    It's a bit like Tom Cruise's Nathan Algren in The Last Samurai, albeit with a fantasy twist. Before finding his purpose to protect his friends and loved ones, Algren failed to embody the Samurai values. Afterwards, he discovered that purpose and grasped the values. 

    In Kim Shin's case, this would take openheartedness to forgive, or at least to temporarily let go of his grudge (as shown in Ep 13 Preview--although previews can be misleading). 

     

    • Like 11

    [Drama 2016-2017] Guardian: The Lonely and Great Goblin 도깨비

    in k-dramas & movies

    Posted · Edited by selenette
    Grammar is my own worst enemy.

    @winterdew Scenes like that (the "forget me" scene in Ep 12) are emotionally draining. I hope the filming doesn't affect their well-being so much. They're already sick, they don't have to suffer mentally, too. To see Sunny crying alone at the end of the scene was difficult for me, because I could still hear Yoo In-na's sobs when the scene faded out.  Like how long seriously did the actress sob? :bawling:

    And Lee Dong-wook, too. I bet after Wang Yeo walked away he too was still crying.:bawling:

    I read this article once on an American actress who cried and cried after her particularly heartbreaking scene on a tv show. She couldn't stop crying for hours that the set had to be shut down.

     

     

    The same thing goes for the snow scene in Ep 9 that @ucylucy referred. I agree that it was beautifully filmed, but to tell you the truth I couldn't concentrate on the romance when I watched it for the first time. Because it must've been so difficult, not to mention physically challenging and tiring for Kim Go-eun and Gong Yoo (and the crew).

    I kept imagining how cold, like really VERY cold it must've been. I wondered why they couldn't just invent any reasons for both Eun-tak and Kim Shin to wear hats or earmuffs. In the end, I shivered so much I had a fever. :bawling:

     

    P.S. I know artists are very proud of their crafts, and they neither want or need our pity, but I can't help sympathizing with these amazing people.

    • Like 16

    [Drama 2016-2017] Guardian: The Lonely and Great Goblin 도깨비

    in k-dramas & movies

    Posted · Edited by selenette

    @yukipinkk  I love that Quebec post, thank you for describing a city so beautifully. I want Kim Shin to say to Eun-tak that he will take her to beautiful cities where there are exquisite art, including music, like Klaus of TVD once said to Caroline (I think dear @maryofbethany and my other ShinTak shippers friends here will find it romantic). I want the characters to travel the world in joy and laughter.

    @Sunset90  The whole club scene with Above!Deok-hwa, Kim Shin and Wang Yeo was beautifully shot and dramatically acted. Gong Yoo's reaction at the end was priceless, Lee Dong-wook and Yook Sung-jae nearly broke character from laughing.

    @Nymeria289 I've never greeted you properly before, sorry. So ...hi! Yes I hope they're all okay. They've worked so hard!

    • Like 8
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue..