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[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] The Story of Ming Lan 庶女明兰传 / 知否?知否?应是绿肥红瘦


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2 hours ago, Nisda said:

No offense to William Feng's fan but i really wish Zhu Yilong became the lead hero instead second lead, as he has charisma with heroin aka Minglan  

 

Even without words spoken when they together i can feel Zhu YiLong did his best to express his feeling 

 

 

 

I'm not familiar w/either actors or their work but I beg to differ, specifically if it is based on their character's as TY & QH. 

 

QH's character is bare/shallow in characterization. Every scene ZYL as QH been in w/ZLY as ML is super cut&dry. There's no substance in their minimal dialogue onscreen as a pair. The interactions is rather dull & the scenes for both of them consists mostly of shortlived walks & dry conversations. There's no variety. I wouldnt say it's at the fault of the actor but mostly due to QH's characterization. I dont find him appealing as QH.

 

With FSF as TY, there's more energy & excitement, especially with ML&TY's first full on conversation as adults. Even when they weren't romatically involved yet, the witty/snarky dialogue between the two makes ML & TY as a platonic pair more engaging/interesting onscreen than the bland romance/affair of ZYL & ZLY as QH/ML. Not only that, ZLY/FSF as ML/TY are constantly smiling in each other's presence. She has more variety in expression with FSF/TY, in comparison to ZYL/QH, in which majority of the time, she's either sad/distressed or nonchalant w/QH.

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QH should realize the entire blame for bringing ML and GTY together lies on his own head. Who told him to pray for a good husband for ML at the Youqing Monastery? Thats why they say.... be c

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26 minutes ago, greenwatch08 said:

I'm not familiar w/either actors or their work but I beg to differ, specifically if it is based on their character's as TY & QH. 

 

QH's character is bare/shallow in characterization. Every scene ZYL as QH been in w/ZLY as ML is super cut&dry. There's no substance in their minimal dialogue onscreen as a pair. The interactions is rather dull & the scenes for both of them consists mostly of shortlived walks & dry conversations. There's no variety. I wouldnt say it's at the fault of the actor but mostly due to QH's characterization. I dont find him appealing as QH.

 

With FSF as TY, there's more energy & excitement, especially with ML&TY's first full onconversation as adults. Even when they weren't romatically involved yet, the witty/snarky dialogue between the two makes ML & TY as a platonic pair more engaging/interesting onscreen than the bland romance/affair of ZYL & ZLY as QH/ML. Not only that, ZLY/FSF as ML/TY are constantly smiling in each other's presence & she has more variety in expression with FSF/TY, in comparison to ZYL/QH.

Exactly, like I said I know ZYL is a good actor, but considering this drama GTY is not a character that needs a bright and doll-like actor to play the role, it will feel less energized, for me the best person is the person doing it now, FSF, he is handsome but not some kind of idol beauty, he is manly like GTY, his age is similar to GTY's, and considering what ZLY said he told her about the character of ML, he seem to be someone that thinks like GTY too.. In short, If I see another actor playing GTY, it's definitely not ZYL, I just don't see the 'omg, he acts so well' kinda face to make me think he will havethe greatest chemistry with ZLY, if there will be chemistry, since ZLY has chemistry with all her male leads, it's not this kind of GTY's role that will make him have that superior chemistry with her.. And like someone says there, even though it's the script, QH and MLan's script are so dry, so I don't see how someone will see them as a lead option for this drama.. Definitely not seeing or imagining it at all from my views

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17 hours ago, sava2sava said:

Of course Molan got just what she wish for.. She ha a husband that has a house full of concubines having male decendants all but her.. Her own personal maid becoming her husbands concubine and maybe pregnant by her husnand by now.. Also ML telling her under no circumstance would her mom tablet be entered into the temple nor would her mom be listed into the Sheng Clan if dad tries anything funny she'll take the evidence and witness to the precint tio have her mom tried for murder.. Also in the mean time her husband found out he was schemed into marrying her.. So my guess is this is why he'll get back at her through her personal maid.. Her life is the hell she choose.. She's living in hell and her mom is burning in hell Molan is getting all her mom bad deeds.. 

@sava2savaI want to  see it portrayed how she is living in hell is what I meant. I want to know if the drama shows how she is treated and how she is suffering, if her messing with her husband's concubine's pregnancies will be found out, if she gets punished along with all the baddies. 

 

Anyhow I am getting tired of GTY's sulking and continuos moping. He has got deep insecurity and abandonment issues but like any other person, those are his issues that only he can resolve and no one else. It is understandable that he feels that way because of how he grew up and the women who had hurt him in his life. But like CB said, he needs to solve his problems within himself. Even counselors and mental professionals can only help see what the problem is but the resolution still depends on the efforts of the person himself. I don't know what he wants from Minglan. She is his wife and lover and she had shown him in many ways how deeply she cares about him but is not enough for him. I think that even if she did say what he wanted to hear, he would not be satisfied because the solution is not in ML, it is in himself. 

 

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57 minutes ago, Suzzy San said:

Exactly, like I said I know ZYL is a good actor, but considering this drama GTY is not a character that needs a bright and doll-like actor to play the role, it will feel less energized, for me the best person is the person doing it now, FSF, he is handsome but not some kind of idol beauty, he is manly like GTY, his age is similar to GTY's, and considering what ZLY said he told her about the character of ML, he seem to be someone that thinks like GTY too.. In short, If I see another actor playing GTY, it's definitely not ZYL, I just don't see the 'omg, he acts so well' kinda face to make me think he will havethe greatest chemistry with ZLY, if there will be chemistry, since ZLY has chemistry with all her male leads, it's not this kind of GTY's role that will make him have that superior chemistry with her.. And like someone says there, even though it's the script, QH and MLan's script are so dry, so I don't see how someone will see them as a lead option for this drama.. Definitely not seeing or imagining it at all from my views

I actually dont find FSF handsome, although he isnt bad looking either, but the thing about FSF as TY is he HAS this physicality/strut & daunting energy in the way he carries himself that really entranced me w/TY's character, which also makes him as all more attractive/alluring onscreen.  It also helps that TY's characterization is far superior than QH in everyway. ZYL is doing a decent job as QH w/what he's given with but he definitely would not fit as TY.

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2 hours ago, mingerling said:

They have kept the granny poisoning plot.Yay!! We get to see no holds barred ML.Much needed for SH.How could he sacrifice old madam?He owes his life and current status,comfortable living because she was there to guide him towards it.He is extremely selfish and coward.

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2 hours ago, sava2sava said:

@greenwatch08  He should have pick up on she was lying.. How could the PM order a dinner party in her residence without her approval..  How could the PM force her to drink if the ED was so drunk how did she know what happend in her residence with the PM.. Boy he's really stupid..

He's such a simpleton, which irks me because he has nothing to gain from what's going to unfold in the current political tension. To me, I see it as QH being petty towards TY like before. He doesnt try to understand why TY & majesty is doing/going up against Dowager. Dowager is an awful liar.

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1 hour ago, zenya22 said:

 

Anyhow I am getting tired of GTY's sulking and continuos moping. He has got deep insecurity and abandonment issues but like any other person, those are his issues that only he can resolve and no one else. It is understandable that he feels that way because of how he grew up and the women who had hurt him in his life. But like CB said, he needs to solve his problems within himself. Even counselors and mental professionals can only help see what the problem is but the resolution still depends on the efforts of the person himself. I don't know what he wants from Minglan. She is his wife and lover and she had shown him in many ways how deeply she cares about him but is not enough for him. I think that even if she did say what he wanted to hear, he would not be satisfied because the solution is not in ML, it is in himself. 

 

Couldn’t have said better....

Honestly, when they were fighting on the way home I was just rolling my eyes and laughing like what? GTY was trifling.... His trust issues and insecurity he needs to face and not channel it onto ML. Like I said before, he is blaming ML for not meeting his standards rather than taking the time to understand where she’s coming from. Than again his character is the forceful type, it’ll take a lot of MLs patience to understand and figure out his problems and what he wants from her. But from his convo with CB, it really shows that the problem did lie within himself. I was feeling bad for ML when he was playing his game of cold shoulders after the incident with meeting of QH, that when she had enough of it during their fight and played cold shoulder as well I was like good for her. Lol 

 

1 hour ago, greenwatch08 said:

I actually dont find FSF handsome, although he isnt bad looking either, but the thing about FSF as TY is he HAS this physicality/strut & daunting energy in the way he carries himself that really entranced me w/TY's character, which also makes him as all more attractive/alluring onscreen.  It also helps that TY characterization is far superior than QH in everyway. ZYL is doing a decent job as QH w/what he's given with but he definitely would not fit as TY.

Exactly. I hope people don’t hate on the actor just because they hate QH character. LOL But like you said ZYL plays well as QH, I can’t see him as GTY. Likewise I can’t see FSF as QH. They all did their part terrifically. Maybe if it were a different drama with different characters, I also don’t mind to see ZYL as male lead for ZLY. I don’t know, maybe I’m biased towards ZLY because she’s one of my fav actress but she has a way that compels me to find her male leads charms. I guess the only male lead she played with that I wasnt convince with was her partner in Best Get Going. 

 

 

As for the power struggles with ED and Emperor reminds me of the drama The Imperial Doctress. LOL But unlike in that drama, in the power struggle with the Emperor it’s obvious the emperor can hold on his own by now so it’s only the right thing that the ED step down after all woman don’t belong in court and it will always be that way by standards of their time. The people who're

forming alliance with ED have ulterior motives they could care less about ED or they are just biased towards late Emperor. 

As for the issue with Emperor recognizing his birth parents. If I were a politician I would probably remain neutral in that topic. Lol Because I see from both sides, the fact of the matter is he was adopted by late emperor, it’s not his fault nor QH that the ED turned out to be malicious and wants to use Emperor as a mere puppet while she reigns supreme but still he must show respect towards her and should recognize her as his stepmom or mother whatever, not necessarily because I favor one over the other. But at the end of the day even if he recognize ED as mother, the officials should always be loyal to the emperor. 

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Just now, cherubstomato said:

Exactly. I hope people don’t hate on the actor just because they hate QH character. LOL But like you said ZYL plays well as QH, I can’t see him as GTY. Likewise I can’t see FSF as QH. They all did their part terrifically. Maybe if it were a different drama with different characters, I also don’t mind to see ZYL as male lead for ZLY. I don’t know, maybe I’m biased towards ZLY because she’s one of my fav actress but she has a way that compels me to find her male leads charms. I guess the only male lead she played with that I wasnt convince with was her partner in Best Get Going.

I agree.

Im not familiar w/ ZLY, FSF, & ZYL work since I'm pretty new to c-dramas. This is actually the first work I've watched from this main cast & I like the way they portray their respective characters. And of course, ZLY is awesome as ML.

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2 hours ago, frenchfan said:

:hushed: getting exciting now.  She made me laugh so much.  "Dad don't worry, I will deal with this and not implicate you.  I will just ask people to take the culprit outside and kill them"  And the dad was like :astonished:

 

Lol they made this scene funny , when this was such a serious scene in the book....ML scared SH with her talk of killing Kang Aunt.

 

1 hour ago, greenwatch08 said:

I actually dont find FSF handsome, although he isnt bad looking either, but the thing about FSF as TY is he HAS this physicality/strut & daunting energy in the way he carries himself that really entranced me w/TY's character, which also makes him as all more attractive/alluring onscreen.  It also helps that TY characterization is far superior than QH in everyway. ZYL is doing a decent job as QH w/what he's given with but he definitely would not fit as TY.

 

The reason I went from not that interested in this show to very much interested was actually FSF. After seeing his scenes from the first teaser...I was happy with just the glimpse of the way he was playing his character and also glad they chose someone mature looking as that was the characters requirement. BTW, I have never watched any of his dramas before. I'm happy to say FSF has grabbed GTY essence perfectly. Equal parts rascal and charming, ruthless and soft.

ZYL is actually perfectly cast too but his character is really under developed and hence we find his actions not making sense. For e.g. After ML talked with him on the bridge.....we didn't see follow up to his reactions...the narrative never went back to him to show us how it affected him or if did affect him at all. For that the fault lies with the writers.

 

 

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1 hour ago, zenya22 said:

Anyhow I am getting tired of GTY's sulking and continuos moping. He has got deep insecurity and abandonment issues but like any other person, those are his issues that only he can resolve and no one else. It is understandable that he feels that way because of how he grew up and the women who had hurt him in his life. But like CB said, he needs to solve his problems within himself. Even counselors and mental professionals can only help see what the problem is but the resolution still depends on the efforts of the person himself. I don't know what he wants from Minglan. She is his wife and lover and she had shown him in many ways how deeply she cares about him but is not enough for him. I think that even if she did say what he wanted to hear, he would not be satisfied because the solution is not in ML, it is in himself. 

It definitely stems from his upbringing & his relationship w/women. That's why he needs to thoroughly/explicitly talk it out w/ML because hes making it a bit more muddle for her to understand him. But I like that both of them are now somewhat more upfront about their current feelings for eachother. ML already has to deal w/everything within/outside of the manor & her personal affair/family so it will take time for her to truly immerse herself w/ TY. They both have internal conflicts that needs to be sorted out so it's good that it's heading in that direction. 

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1 hour ago, zenya22 said:

@sava2savaI want to  see it portrayed how she is living in hell is what I meant. I want to know if the drama shows how she is treated and how she is suffering, if her messing with her husband's concubine's pregnancies will be found out, if she gets punished along with all the baddies. 

 

Anyhow I am getting tired of GTY's sulking and continuos moping. He has got deep insecurity and abandonment issues but like any other person, those are his issues that only he can resolve and no one else. It is understandable that he feels that way because of how he grew up and the women who had hurt him in his life. But like CB said, he needs to solve his problems within himself. Even counselors and mental professionals can only help see what the problem is but the resolution still depends on the efforts of the person himself. I don't know what he wants from Minglan. She is his wife and lover and she had shown him in many ways how deeply she cares about him but is not enough for him. I think that even if she did say what he wanted to hear, he would not be satisfied because the solution is not in ML, it is in himself. 

 

Eh this isnt something you can just get over his entire life has not been easy at all these are very deep wounds  he has. 

 

He  still suffering  as well it has not stop.

 

 

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28 minutes ago, MarJo_Lei said:

 

Why are you not jealous?

GTY wants MLs weakness. He wants her to surrender completely to him. But for a person like ML who has been scarred by her birth mothers death, it took a very long time to patch her heart back up. The conversation about her being afraid that she couldn’t recognize her mother anymore it’s foretelling that her wounds are almost healed... But, merely handing that patch up heart to someone especially to someone like GTY who seems to be hot and cold all the time, it’ll take a lot of courage and willingness on her part to be opened to the possibility of her heart breaking and being hurt badly once again. GTY says he wants ML to be herself, yet he doesn’t give her a room to breath to be her own woman. 

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3 hours ago, Nisda said:

No offense to William Feng's fan but i really wish Zhu Yilong became the lead hero instead second lead, as he has charisma with heroin aka Minglan  

 

Even without words spoken when they together i can feel Zhu YiLong did his best to express his feeling 

 

 

 

I can tell that you're from ZYL's fandom but I have to disagree here, this kind of blind appraisal only hurts your idol and causes unnecessary fan war. I admit that I was awed by his outstanding performance in Guardian but I haven't felt the same thing here. His bright and charming appearance doesn't work well with GTY who is jaded by injustice throughout his upbringing and who climbed up the social ladder with his military merits. It also doesn't help ZYL that QH is a boring and pathetic character. However, the fact that we've spent hours of discussing QH and his sad life appeared to me that ZYL did a good job, I would say they cast the right people who make us feel exactly how we should.

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12 minutes ago, cherubstomato said:

GTY wants MLs weakness. He wants her to surrender completely to him. But for a person like ML who has been scarred by her birth mothers death, it took a very long time to patch her heart back up. The conversation about her being afraid that she couldn’t recognize her mother anymore it’s foretelling that her wounds are almost healed... But, merely handing that patch up heart to someone especially to someone like GTY who seems to be hot and cold all the time, it’ll take a lot of courage and willingness on her part to be opened to the possibility of her heart breaking and being hurt badly once again. GTY says he wants ML to be herself, yet he doesn’t give her a room to breath to be her own woman. 

I really enjoyed that argument she had with TY that night on the way home. It's telling where her mind/heart is at the moment. I think they both really need to talk out their personal conflicts they have with eachother where they both aren't confused/

misunderstand eachother. Although TY is making it a bit more difficult for her to see him on a emotional level since he has such a big temper. He definitely gives her alot freedom, but he doesn't seem to grasp where her heart is currently. I really like the tension. TSoML perfectly illustrates a more realistic approach to portraying marriage that's not perfect. They both have bruised hearts that still needs mending. Theyve been married to eachother for a year so it's still a work in progress for these two.

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There's a lot of discussion about QH's statements at court over the posthumous title issue... but I feel like I need to hop in and defend the poor dude. 

 

Things agreed upon: 

- QH is a very... straightforward person, not the type to scheme/manipulate and therefore less likely to follow/recognize the moves of a professional manipulator =P So it's hard-pressed for him to catch on to Empress Dowager's complex scheme-- gimme a break, even old and court-savvy Minister Han got played. To QH's credit, he went out of his way to review the imperial cook/dining records to "fact" check the Empress Dowagers claims before he made his proposition on court. But of course ED was already familiar with the rules of the game and completely played the system. Objectively, it is almost IMPOSSIBLE for QH to think otherwise that ED got cheated out of the decree (especially given Minister Han's previous track record of actually tricking ED into losing the imperial seal). NO ONE who tried would have been able to find concrete evidence to prove ED's statements false, and that's why Minister Han/State Uncle Shen realized that they fell into her trap and were rhetorically screwed. 

 

Please also understand QH's ministerial role: 諫議大夫 (i.e. head of Dept of Censors and Remonstrance).The role's JOB DESCRIPTION is to provide moral guidance by calling out on any crooked behavior at the court, with legitimacy to call out even the Emperor himself. Basically it's a job where if you do it well/like you're supposed to, you're fated to be public enemy. That's why he told the servant to relay to his mom: our government does not kill 言官 (censors: the class of office that he's in, who are obligated to speak up on moral issues), so don't worry too much for my safety. All I can say was that ED set the whole court up really badly.... and QH maintained his integrity/did his job like he was supposed to, including asking the emperor to fire him as a final appeal-- on grounds of FAILING his job at convincing the emperor to recognize the error and for failing to protect him from the influence of "immoral ministers". Unfortunate and infuriating for the well-intended "good guys" (including poor QH), but not out of line/senseless/personal (spite against GTY). 

 

And probably should give the poor guy some credit-- that's a job that you constantly have to stick your neck out (risk offending a tyrant and get your head chopped off), and QH had the balls to keep his neck out all the way. 

 

This arc is actually an adaptation of a famous historical occurrence during the Song Dynasty under Emperor YingZhong-- and it was after this incident that the Dept of Censors and Remonstrance was intentionally weakened as part of the movement to centralize imperial power. In fact, the majority of QH's lines during the ultimatum were taken from court records of discussions between the "conservatives" and "reformists" around this time (though the scope of their arguments focused on huge legal reforms being pushed by Wang Anshi). 

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36 minutes ago, dito said:

The reason I went from not that interested in this show to very much interested was actually FSF. After seeing his scenes from the first teaser...I was happy with just the glimpse of the way he was playing his character and also glad they chose someone mature looking as that was the characters requirement. BTW, I have never watched any of his dramas before. I'm happy to say FSF has grabbed GTY essence perfectly. Equal parts rascal and charming, ruthless and soft.

ZYL is actually perfectly cast too but his character is really under developed and hence we find his actions not making sense. For e.g. After ML talked with him on the bridge.....we didn't see follow up to his reactions...the narrative never went back to him to show us how it affected him or if did affect him at all. For that the fault lies with the writers.

Most definitely.

 

ZYL as QH isnt bad at all. It's more in the line how QH has been handle throughout the show. His characterization doesnt have the same depth/detail writing as ML or TY.  I think QH would've made a compelling counterpart/antagonist to TY after he entered the palace but his scenes/interactions has been minuscule along w/his stagnant development. His dialogues are a tad wilted.

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6 minutes ago, hartofseeker said:

There's a lot of discussion about QH's statements at court over the posthumous title issue... but I feel like I need to hop in and defend the poor dude. 

 

Things agreed upon: 

- QH is a very... straightforward person, not the type to scheme/manipulate and therefore less likely to follow/recognize the moves of a professional manipulator =P So it's hard-pressed for him to catch on to Empress Dowager's complex scheme-- gimme a break, even old and court-savvy Minister Han got played. To QH's credit, he went out of his way to review the imperial cook/dining records to "fact" check the Empress Dowagers claims before he made his proposition on court. But of course ED was already familiar with the rules of the game and completely played the system. Objectively, it is almost IMPOSSIBLE for QH to think otherwise that ED got cheated out of the decree (especially given Minister Han's previous track record of actually tricking ED into losing the imperial seal). NO ONE who tried would have been able to find concrete evidence to prove ED's statements false, and that's why Minister Han/State Uncle Shen realized that they fell into her trap and were rhetorically screwed. 

 

Please also understand QH's ministerial role: 諫議大夫 (i.e. head of Dept of Censors and Remonstrance).The role's JOB DESCRIPTION is to provide moral guidance by calling out on any crooked behavior at the court, with legitimacy to call out even the Emperor himself. Basically it's a job where if you do it well/like you're supposed to, you're fated to be public enemy. That's why he told the servant to relay to his mom: our government does not kill 言官 (censors: the class of office that he's in, who are obligated to speak up on moral issues), so don't worry too much for my safety. All I can say was that ED set the whole court up really badly.... and QH maintained his integrity/did his job like he was supposed to, including asking the emperor to fire him as a final appeal-- on grounds of FAILING his job at convincing the emperor to recognize the error and for failing to protect him from the influence of "immoral ministers". Unfortunate and infuriating for the well-intended "good guys" (including poor QH), but not out of line/senseless/personal (spite against GTY). 

 

This arc is actually an adaptation of a famous historical occurrence during the Song Dynasty under Emperor YingZhong-- and it was after this incident that the Dept of Censors and Remonstrance was intentionally weakened as part of the movement to centralize imperial power. In fact, the majority of QH's lines during the ultimatum were taken from court records of discussions between the "conservatives" and "reformists" around this time (though the scope of their arguments focused on huge legal reforms being pushed by Wang Anshi). 

Thanks for enlightening us with the historical background here. From my exposure to historical dramas, I'm kind of understand QH's job description. I think this job perfectly fits his characteristics (bookworm, dogmatic, stubborn). People doing this job were notoriously taken advantage as the weapon by political fractions to attack the other side. I think the writer was brilliant to assign this job for QH hehe.

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  • Guest changed the title to [Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] The Story of Ming Lan 庶女明兰传 / 知否?知否?应是绿肥红瘦

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