[Drama 2016-2017] Guardian: The Lonely and Great Goblin 도깨비

[naritul]

33 minutes ago, starryknights said:

Omo, omo! I wonder if this is for next week's ep or if it's later on in the series...? Ack! Since Grims can see people's past lives whenever he touches them, I wonder if he'll see Sunny's since he's already holding her hand (you go, Grims!) If he does, then I guess the cat's out of the bag here and omg, do I get that double date that I'm hoping and praying for? Ahaha. I want a full-on double date for our two couples filled with lovey dovey and funny and cute moments!

 

i think he will hold her hand after he knows  her past life...

waiting their skinship hihihihi

we know that KS loves ET as a woman

does ET love KS as a man or family (or in between)?

 

@itzibitzispider LOL hahahahahha 

[shynaz]

Its Tuesday and long time to wait to friday ...

I repeat again scene goblin and ET...Its romantic actually because we already know this is first love to kim Shin..900 years without love its painful in life.So Et make goblin feel want to alive and damn to blade will give more pain to Kim Shin...

Stress to think about it...I just thinking what will kim shin doing next...My hope please not amnesia...

 

[packmule3]

On 12/25/2016 at 10:05 AM, nearsea said:

Sorry for cutting your post but exactly wanted to comment on that. Honestly I don't get all the criticism regarding the pace being slow. Once I start watching time went by quite quickly and I wish they were longer like the earlier episodes. And yes like an avid fan, I'm scared about the plot going awry, but then it has been overall fairing good so far, except the ppl yeah. So, as long as the story is logical and in place, I have no complain.

...

PS : I remember @packmule3 saying she doesn't believe in fate, but in destiny. Would care to shed some light @PM3? When you get some time after your holidays of course :).

 

I agree with @kaqueski and you, @nearsea: I don’t think the pacing is slow.

As for the complaints? WHO’s complaining again? 

Do you really think, @nearsea, that I’d let virtual strangers – and I bet, not a few of them are silly -- influence my preferences? Didn't I tell @selenette not to let other people's likes and dislikes bother her? 

Spoiler

 

Honestly, there’s so much going on UNDER THE SURFACE that I’m barely keeping up with pace.  It wouldn’t be surprising to me, if those people who find the pace slow are only skimming through Goblin in search of the next big bang explosion. They probably want action or mind-blowing revelations, and less introspection from the characters. Oh well.... 

In a way, these critics remind me of an Isak Dinesen short story called Babette’s Feast, that was made into a movie in 1987 (shoutout: it’s a year before Reply 1988). Have you seen it?  It’s about a retired chef of a world-famous Parisian café. She was working as a housekeeper for two poor unmarried sisters in a remote fishing village in Denmark. For more than a decade, she cooked austere and bland meals for the two spinsters, which must have been HELL for her considering her wasted talents. One day, she won a big prize money, and decided to spend her winnings on an extravagant dinner for 12 villagers. Of course, none of the villagers had ever tasted anything like her cuisine before in their lives, and only one diner, a visiting guest who was acquainted with Café d’anglais, marveled at the sumptuous feast. 

Well, to cut the story short -- 

To me, some Goblin critics can be like those simple fishing folks, @nearsea. If they were given “potage a la tortue” or turtle soup, they would snort and say that it tasted oddly like fishy chicken. If given Veuve Cliquot champagne, they’d sip and cough, whining it was too bitter. If they were to eat quail eggs with foie gras, they’d say “eggs are eggs.” Or if they were served “blinis demidoff” they wouldn’t be able to differentiate BUCKWHEAT flour from wheat flour (buckwheat is gluten-free).

Do you understand what I’m saying? Appreciation for the finer things in life, be it food, literature, plays, or a kdrama like Goblin, is NOT innate. Unfortunately so. People aren’t born with senses to immediately recognize superior, exquisite, or deeper things. They have to actually cultivate their faculties and their tastes in order to learn how to recognize these fine things. But the first important step to cultivating the senses is humility – simply admitting that they don’t know and understand a lot of things.

But but but, on another level, the Goblin critics can be UNLIKE the villagers in Babette’s Feast.

You see, in the play, the villagers learned to appreciate the food at the end. They might NOT have understood what they were eating, but they ate the food, and did NOT insult the chef. Despite their simple ways and even simpler tastes, they had a memorable time at Babette’s feast. Why? Because they knew that the nourishment they received so generously from an artiste like the chef, not only fed them physically but also enriched their lives long after that dinner.

Same thing with this kdrama. When I see a talented scriptwriter and her hard word being given short-shrift, I can only shake my head at the arrogance of people who think they know better than the scriptwriter. If they can’t appreciate the work, switching channels is an option. Or reading a book to educate themselves.  Or shutting up if they can't find a book within 50 feet. lol. But they really should leave the rest of us to enjoy the kdrama in peace.  

 

Anyway, what were you asking again? Ah! Fate versus destiny. 

I’ve written about this in other threads, so if some old-timers/posters have read this before, forgive me. I find that many people interchange fate and destiny as if they were one and the same. But in the classical Western world, there’s a subtle difference. Since you aren’t enrolled in a philosophy class, @nearsea, and I’m not a professor -- as you very well know -- I’ll keep it simple. 

Fate is something you have NO control over; you cannot change it; and it’s pre-set (or already determined) for you. It’s been given to you and it shapes who you are. It could be the family, physical abilities, or economic status you were born with or your country or your race.

On the other hand, destiny is what you do with this fate given to you. You have CONTROL over your destiny. You can change it.  You can alter it. You can mold it. You can even create it. The big difference between fate and destiny is CHOICE. You have a FREE WILL to choose what to make of your own destiny.

From the Western perspective then, fate is usually linked to resignation or passive acceptance, and the connotation is usually negative. That’s why we have words like fatal, ill-fated, fatalism and fatalistic. There’s a sense of being mortal, limited, disastrous, and deathly. For instance, “The rebels were fated to die in battle” or “He was fated to live in abject poverty.” There’s a sense of INABILITY to fight against the restraints and impositions on you, so you resign or accept your future as inevitable. 

...which is different from destiny. 

With destiny, there’s a sense of hope, of triumphing over adversities, of fighting against your limitations and of doing your best. That’s why we usually hear, “He’s destined for greatness” and NOT “He’s destined to become a loser.”  A presidential candidate can feel that he’s DESTINED to win the elections, but never he’s “fated to win” the election, because "fate" doesn't graciously and magically bestow elections on anybody.  A candidate actually has to work to win it.

Do see the difference?  With destiny, there’s a sense of defiance and resistance: you’re not giving in to what was predetermined for you. No matter what happens, you make your own choices. 

That is what I mean by I don’t believe in fate. I control my own fate. The predictors of my fate like horoscopes, palm-reading, fortunetelling, astrology, numerology, do NOT influence my decisions and actions. I carve out my own destiny. 

Now, how does this fate/destiny apply to our kdrama? 

It’s simple really.  There are two characters in the kdrama who behave like fate and destiny. Do you know who they are? 

Think about it for a second. Then go ahead and click on the spoiler to read what I think. 

 

Spoiler

Uh-uh. No cheating now.  Don't peek until you've made your own guess. 

 

Spoiler

Done?

I said earlier that this kdrama has a yin-yang theme. But it’s not just an ET/Goblin yin-yang, but also a Reaper/Goblin yin-yang.

The Reaper can see the past, but he himself has no past. Meanwhile, the Goblin can see the future, but he himself has no future. 

But the Reaper also acts like fate in the show: he follows rules. For example, there’s a list of dead people that he needs to “collect” and help to transition over to the afterlife. He can’t deviate from the list. And he doesn’t allow those people to escape death either. He can’t take away the young ET however because her name isn’t included in the list of the dead. But in Episode 6, he tells her that there’s order in this life, and in her 9th, 19th, 29th year of life, a Reaper will appear before her, because “that is the FATE of a missing person.”  The Reaper is inevitable, inescapable. He does not diverge from the preordained course of actions.  He's death for ET while the Goblin gave ET life. 

The Goblin, on the other hand, acts like destiny. Sure, he can see the future, but he gives people the choice to break from the cycle, or do a course correction and move on to a different path. This is plain from the start when he rescues the young boy from an abusive stepfather. In Episode 4, he explains to the boy that the boy solved the math problem well, even though his answer did not correspond the answer Shin had given him. “Your choice alone is the answer to your life.” 

Note: This also heralds why ET is destined to make her own choice regardless of what the gods have fated for her. When given the right answers to the tests, both the boy and ET eschewed the “right answers” and decided to follow their own paths. 

As a matter of fact, Goblin disrupts the order that the Reaper wants in life. The old grandpa mentions this when he says that it's a good thing that Goblin exists because through him, some people can be given a strange and good fortune, or a miracle. And miracles, as we see in Episode 8, are something contrary to reapers' rule of order. 

There are other examples to show how the Reaper and Goblin behave like fate and destiny. But I have to stop now and entertain our house guests. We’re skating tonight and I need to look for my LUCKY (hahaha) pink skates and kneepads to protect my bum knee. 

 

I’m sure you and @maryofbethany, @romanov, @salz, @ariesw, @gutibear, @letataves (hello, newbie!) and the other ladies, can spot the other examples of fate and destiny in the kdrama. 

@phikyl, who was @LyraYoo shamelessly tagging? Me? Hahaha. I think our lyrayoo discovered the power of tagging. Tagging me @LyraYoo is similar to ET summoning Shin by blowing on the candles.  It’s a “couple” thing.  (Don't you love it when he popped up behind her after she blew the candle on her ice cream cake, and they exchanged glances? His was wry; hers was happy. And he tried to brush it off coolly in front of the guys, like "Hey, you wouldn't understand because it's a couple thing!")  

Hmmmm… will have to post soon about that BALL FAKE the writer did on the Reaper/Sunny thing. I almost fell for it, too, myself, if it weren’t for that "Liar’s Paradox" at the end….

[aurelly]

Hai hai..

Sorry if someone already post this pic 

 Can't wait this family reunion 

[Guest]

59 minutes ago, packmule3 said:

Hmmmm… will have to post soon about that BALL FAKE the writer did on the Reaper/Sunny thing. I almost fell for it, too, myself, if it weren’t for that "Liar’s Paradox" at the end….

Yay! I was hoping you'd address that! 

I see the list of tags is getting longer. Lol! So many familiar names.

I feel like Goblin is the new W&C. On the surface it's slow and the plot isn't gripping but if you look deeper, there's a lot going on. It's so similar in feel that I've been keeping an eye on previews to see if there are any changes in the preview vs actual scene too.

And whoever caught the sword being different, amazing catch! Has anyone written up a theory on the symbolism between the two swords yet? I'm dying to see what everyone thinks!

[samzz]

@princess nour90, please comeback, I remember you are one of the early poster in here, who makes the thread alive.

 I know Gong Yoo, since 10 yrs ago, like him as an actor, but never follow him the way I follow Wookie.

but after series of BTS in this drama, I give 100000% respect bc how humble he is after series of successful project this year. No wonder  Wookie's agency said he is one of driving factor for Wookie willing to act as second male actor in this drama bc acting beside him doesn't make u like a second actor. Wookie knows the real Gong Yoo.

Regarding fighting who the best, who Wookie think the best for him as friend, costars, as lover or etc.. some of Wookie's fans are familiar with it, even some claim they knew what inside Wookie's heart.

To me I always cheer who Wookie likes- ironically who Wookie so closed behind the scene, that the people ("a few" only not all) of his fans hate the most.

So cheer Gong Yoo fans, we love you too.

I saw this, but C fans said it's a shooting scenes, the sound system can be seen above their head

 

[naritul]

@packmule3 I love how you explain the difference between fate and destiny and makes me easier to understand bc i'm native.

I love what's written inside the spoiler even more...

thank you for today lectures about fate,destiny and the innate life...indeed beautiful... tag me on your next lectures pleaseeee...

@gutibear

PPL is an abbreviation for Product Placement....

the actors use, drink, eat, meet (at) the sponsored products, but in ep 8 they take the PPL to the next level... hahahaha....

They made CF (Commercial Film) within the drama LOL... first time see it in kdrama land...

Welcome @dramafanvidsdropper to this sleepless thread!!!

 

Edited December 27, 2016 by naritul
add gutibear quote

[dramafanvidsdropper]

Hello, this is my first time joining the forum. Been lurking here as a silent reader since the first episode. Goblin's beautifulness make me really excited wants to join this and I really love how people creative contributions to this show and makes this show touches more layer of hearts.

Here I am, wanna share these great Goblin FMVs by far. Credits to the channel who created it. Really, check these out while you are waiting for the next episode.

Non-OSTs

Brilliant editing, must check!

 

Spoiler

 

Another OST suprisingly good for this.

Happy times.

 

OSTs

This is emotionally amazing, beautifully executed. Contains the confession voice too that suprisingly match the OST. A must check at 1:41!

Theatrically amazing.

Great introduction for the show, better than original I think.

Bromance slice of life!

 

Amazing works, really. Love this show

Edited December 27, 2016 by jeijei
Multiple videos set in spoiler tag

[gutibear]

hi @packmule3 thanks for your detailed explanation on FATE vs DESTINY!! As English is not my first language, sometimes I get those two mixed. 

btw, Immortals.. what is PPL stand for? Is it Pay Per Lead as in advertising?

[jeijei]

^ PPL = product placement

Some thoughts on this

https://ewhabrandcommunication.wordpress.com/2016/03/21/product-placement-ppl-in-korean-television/

https://koreancultureblog.com/2016/09/25/k-drama-series-product-placement-ppl-in-k-dramas/

[joyezz]

8 hours ago, lucifercorner said:

 

WangSun couple holding hands,,,

Waiting to watch this

 

omg they touch ! what will happen? looks like Sunny pulls his hand but he let her, I wonder it's their first time holding hands

and does he sees ppl past everytime he touches them or just for the first time?

btw nice find

I didn't see it on instagram or twitter haha

Edited December 27, 2016 by jeijei
Quoted images

[dramafanvidsdropper]

@naritul thank you, your welcome hearts really means a lot to me!!!

Spoiler

Is posting those will hurt this forum? Sorry if I am really lost about these.

@jeijei thank you for the posting help since my nescience

I'm crazy about this OST vid right now... Hope you guys check it soon. Someone commented that this FMV is making her cry while she is watching it.

 

Edited December 27, 2016 by dramafanvidsdropper
still learning to post

[joyezz]

11 hours ago, Princi_86 said:

@lucifercorner OMO! Omo! Omo! where have you found this treasure?  Can it be bts and it's Wookie who's holding YIN hand?

I want Wang Yeo to finaly have skinship with people, especially Sunny! He was avoiding contacts for centuries. poor guy, he needs more love in his life!

@itzibitzispider 100% agree with you. If someone has another opinion I'm always open to conversation. Arguing something doesn't mean hate. It means that someone has different point of view. 

Discussio mater veritas est.

ahahaha yea is it  LDW and YIN or Sunny and WY ?

both ships are sailing haha

[crazyoverkdrama]

I suddenly had this AHA moment.  I'm not sure if this was already posted before (the thread is moving so fast, probably faster than Goblin's "easy as pie" flying. LOL), but what was missing before was JET's sincerity.  During the buckwheat field scene, she was just doing it because it was "needed" in exchange of the things KS gave her.  In ep8, she "wanted" to save him from the pain of the sword, and also it was like months (I believe) in between the two scenes so there was enough time for feelings for the two to grow.  

 

 

With regards to the PPL, it was excessive, true, but i find it hilarious and just plain ridiculous sometimes, but i guess I'm used to it already.  In my country, if the show has 30 mins airtime, the commercials are like 45 mins. That's why I was not bothered by the PPL so much unlike the others.  Hey,if those PPL will pay for the JET-KS, SUN-GR scenes in Quebec, I'll take them! They gave us those amazing scenes, so why not? :))

[starryknights]

2 hours ago, beijingdoll said:

Hi guys! I hope you all are enjoying a nice Christmas... In my case I was doing really great until THAT FINALE. OMO, I can't stop thinking about Goblin and whats going to happen between Eun Tak and Kim Shin now that they know their future is doomed.

I'm absolutely sure that she is not going to draw that sword and he won't let her die so I have no idea how are they going to fix this... Sometimes I think that he may not die but become mortal but to discover that Eun Tak needs to accept drawing the sword... and that's not happening no matter if her life is at risk.

Also, please think about what the deity said about returning to ashes and finding peace... that could mean: becoming a mortal and forgetting all his past and the people that died during those years. Remember that for KS, the people he left behind is the worst punishment. So if ET draws the sword he will become mortal and forget who he really is = AMNESIA. And this brings me to my theory:

I remembered the vision Kim Shin had when he saw Eun Tak for the first time. He said he didn't see her future but he saw this just when they locked eyes under the rain...

- Kim Shin at the cementery in Quebec, there is a sillouette of a woman walking towards him.

- KS, looking back as he is surprised by someone

- A guy (I think is KS) grabbing an older Eun Tak (short hair, like in her 29's scene at the restaurant) in front of a Christmas shop... I'm 100% sure is the same one where they went in Quebec the first time she crossed the magic door with him.

- A hand strongly grabbing an arm and KS looking intensely at Eun Tak.

THEORY: Eun Tak and Kim Shin meet again in the future Quebec, they may not remember each other (not sure why) but fate is fate and once they are there they start remembering each everything. If KS is looking at his grave at the cementery is because he has to know something. And I'm not buying that reincarnation theory at all. I WANT KIM SHIN not Gong Yoo acting as another guy. NO WAY. I need my Kim Shin with his 938 years old and his brain cells.

What do you think???? I need your thoughts!!

Hey hi! The last few minutes of the past couple episodes have been so intense and nerve wracking, it's driving me insane! I can't believe the new revelation in regards to the Goblin's curse and Eun-tak's purpose in life and both of their fate. It's so tragic and sad. I'm hoping that Eun-tak won't let Shin pull the noble idiocy card because I have a feeling he's either gonna leave her, ignore and avoid her, or plead for her to pull out the sword–which of course, she won't jump at that idea anymore now that she knows the true meaning behind it.

Among the many theories I've read about what could happen once the sword is drawn, I really hope that instead of Shin disappearing into ashes, the sword will turn into ashes and he'll just become mortal again and live out the rest of his life happily with Eun-tak and they can both grow old together.

Omg, I'm totally with you in regards to wanting Kim Shin as himself and NOT just a lookalike because HELLO, that's not the same! If Shin disappears/dies, but gets reincarnated in the same body/face, he won't be the same Kim Shin aka the Goblin that we've gotten to know and love. I won't buy that either.

Great analysis and theories based on the extremely short vision scene. I've been patiently waiting for his visions of future Eun-tak and him since the first time they locked eyes! I don't really want them to be apart, but if they do end up separating and reuniting again in the future, I hope that they both have their memories of each other intact. Basically, I just want everyone to live happily ever after as they are. Can we do that?

2 hours ago, naritul said:

 

i think he will hold her hand after he knows  her past life...

waiting their skinship hihihihi

we know that KS loves ET as a woman

does ET love KS as a man or family (or in between)?

 

@itzibitzispider LOL hahahahahha 

Yeah! Waiting for more skinship between Shin and Eun-tak and I have a feeling Sunny will be the one to initiate the first skinship w/ Grims! Hehe. Or maybe he was brave enough to hold her hand on his own? Gah, can't wait to see that scene!

Hmm... as of right now, I think Eun-tak is starting to slowly like Shin as a man. She's not there yet, but she finds herself missing him and enjoying his presence when he's around her. She thinks of him when she's in trouble and even when she's not. She's gradually developing feelings for him as they get to know each other more. It's beautiful, their relationship.

[shynaz]

We forget Kim shin already died..then he alive again become goblin...oh my we love ghost more than human..its same with the grim reaper/kwb

[Chellsee]

Really good looking when they are together... 

This is one of my favorite scene...

 

[crazyoverkdrama]

I'm going to keep my fingers crossed and trust the writer that her writing style will stay the same.  I remember DOTS, and it gave us intense, comedic, and sad scenes per episode.  I kind of find it funny that Goblin will be chasing JET, and this time she will be running away from him, a complete reversal of their roles.  

But the one I was most curious was the other lost soul of GR.  Please do not turn this into a makjang and make Sunny the other lost soul. 

[staygold]

46 minutes ago, jeijei said:

^ PPL = product placement

Some thoughts on this

https://ewhabrandcommunication.wordpress.com/2016/03/21/product-placement-ppl-in-korean-television/

https://koreancultureblog.com/2016/09/25/k-drama-series-product-placement-ppl-in-k-dramas/

Thank you for sharing those links!!

I am giving you a different perspective on PPL and why I don't have a severe problem with it. 

I apologise cos this is kind of way off topic.

Spoiler

In my country the television caters to a conservative audience. The same old cliched stories and programs go on and on for years!!! The TV channels make good money out of these and don't see the need to change the pattern. They don't want to invest in a new idea. Also there is considerable censorship!!

Thankfully of late, there has been an influx of web series dealing with subjects that wouldn't have made past the strict censors of TV. These stories could be told because of certain brands which sponsored them. And I would certainly look favorably at these brands because they were brave to support a new idea!!  Also if an outsider asks me to name a few good series to watch I can suggest these instead of the boring standard TV series!! 

Who cares if they showed a cosmetic cream for a few seconds!!! For me there is something new and beautiful story to watch once I move past the obvious PPL!!!

 

[samzz]