[Drama 2016-2017] Guardian: The Lonely and Great Goblin 도깨비

[selenette]

@packmule3 Ma'am I must've missed that encouraging post of yours. Thank you very much for that (I was so worried that my rambling metas and theories had discouraged people to come to this thread and there was a time when I hesitated to post for days), and for explaining the difference between fate and destiny. In my native language, they are both translated as one word, so philosophically they are understood by my countrymen and women as one concept, without any dimensions. 

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Edited December 27, 2016 by selenette

[valzki]

5 hours ago, vivvianne22 said:

I just love when main OTP is in one frame, big applause to all the filming crews of Goblin. EP 01 - 03

 

 

How can i resist not to make my phone memory full when my gallery is all about goblin? Lol...  thank you for the pics chingu ^^

[sleepinthegarden]

14 hours ago, mashi said:

14 hours ago, gutibear said:

Yes, I notice that too. Maybe DH is like a secret agent working for Red Lady lol!

Someone pointed out that DH actually PURPOSELY showed the painting to GR and later told KS that GR has seen the painting + GR reaction 

I KNOW RIGHT. Since the start, where they met in the bridge.. where DH couldnt even pays for the coffee. Maybe that's why that scenes are meant to be. DH meant to be secret agent of Red Lady and does her orders.

[mouse007]

LOL love KS trying to get ET to confess her feelings..look at his adorable face! 

 

 

 

[aurelly]

For happy ending we PRAY!

[joyezz]

Everybody stop being so dramatic lol

someone disagree with you in a discussion forum is not the end of the world  

peace 

[Ym3n]

This show has so many ads inside the story. Most of them I know until "mobile ads MRLAD" - cars accident scene - that hitted by goblin & ET

what is That?

I'm interested because that picture sounds familiar for me.

[crazyoverkdrama]

7 minutes ago, aurelly said:

New BTS FanCam

Cr Owner

Brace yourselves... Pizza PPL is coming....

Seriously wondering if KS really ate all those chicken since I'm pretty sure GR was vegetarian... 

[crazyoverkdrama]

26 minutes ago, Visually-wandering said:

LOL. I think we will get summer and spring on winter. Snow melting, the sun shining so bright and the colorful butterflies surrounding them. Ah must be a big news updates on strange weather happen .

Poor DH. I wonder what will he do then?? He almost had a mental breakdown the last time. LOL

[kembangtahu]

19 minutes ago, blademan said:

I agree!!! I think KS is gonna be the CEO ET was to meet in KS's premonition of the future. I also feel that he's not gonna lose ALL his memory of his Goblin days...it doesn't make sense if he does because then both of them won't know who the other is. If the writer is gonna hinge on emotions and how deeply they're pulled to each other as individuals to be the indication of their past...hmm...sounds okayyyy but I'd prefer KS keeping his memories  

As to whether ET will pull the sword out...I'm sure she will do it, but clearly it will be against her will.

OR

another option will be KS asking GR to erase her memories and letting her grow up but he will always be there to protect her from dying as per what the Red Lady told him. KS would rather sacrifice his mortality than seeing ET having to make the tough decision of pulling the sword out...

Either way, it's gonna be a long road ahead for us viewers! 

Oh? Really?? In ep 1? I will checked one more time. This drama like a puzzle, its not wasting time at all to rewatch. Hullll!!

[LanA]

So what's everybody's guess about the next kiss? What episode will it happen and initiate by who?

My thought is that it will happen in next week, episode 10 and initiate by KS (shyly and cutely )  And I guess we can't ask for a deep kiss since our KS doesn't seem to have any experience at all LOL 

[selenette]

Speaking of fate and destiny

It will be interesting to see this show as a "free will vs fate vs destiny" showdown, with the supreme gods as largely invisible, fickle beings who lord their immense powers over the lesser gods and the mere mortals.

I can sense the injustice already and it makes me both teary and angry.

 

The Goblin

• Just because the gods decide that the Goblin must die (or end his immortality), does it mean he have to surrender without a fight?
• Must the Goblin let go of any chance for happiness and reconciliation, to ensure that he sticks with his bitter end?

 

Eun-tak

• Even though Eun-tak is just a missing soul and a Goblin's Bride in the gods' mighty eyes, is she not allowed to live and to love? 
• Does Eun-tak's future have to consist of either violent death or blissful forgetfulness?
• Does she have no say in this? Not even after years of suffering?

 

The Grim Reaper

• Yes, the Grim Reaper was a cruel king in the past, but does he have to spend forever in self-hatred and guilt? Why? Because the gods want to see him suffer more?
• Is Sunny his punishment, and he hers, just because they meet again?
• How long do these two have to be punished to gratify the gods' whims? 

 

Sunny

• If Sunny is the Queen reborn, must forgetfulness be her only gods-sanctioned relief?
• Can't remembrances bring her solace, or is this not allowed?
• Is she to live alone for the rest of her life, as foretold? Is it a self-fulfilling prophecy for her? 

 

Deok-hwa

• Are silence and servitude Deok-hwa's only roles in helping the Goblin?
• Is it because the gods won't approve of the Yoo clan doing anything else?
• If so, then Deok-hwa has to stand aside and let anything, no matter how unjust and hurtful, happens? 

 

Listening to: "Fearful Odds" - an instrumental by M83 (and shamelessly tagging fellow bgm fan @Princi_86 ). What a fitting title for these characters. The link is below, in case anyone is interested.

Spoiler

 

 

 

Edited December 27, 2016 by selenette
Emphasis and song

[chibimidori]

2 minutes ago, LanA said:

So what's everybody's guess about the next kiss? What episode will it happen and initiate by who?

My thought is that it will happen in next week, episode 10 and initiate by KS (shyly and cutely )  And I guess we can't ask for a deep kiss since our KS doesn't seem to have any experience at all LOL 

 but i shamelessly asking for that...

[shynaz]

wow talk about kiss

I think it will be episode 10...after Ks  will decide to fight destiny and together with ET

[kiranzz]

Actually Kim Shin doesn't feel sick everytime, though the sword is still there, There's a condition whether  he recalls his past memory, when he's sad, and when he's happy because of love (?). When he's with GR, we never see him gets a "sword attack" isnt it? So the deeper his feeling will be, the stronger "sword attack" comes . Poor Kim shin 

[selenette]

36 minutes ago, crazyoverkdrama said:

Brace yourselves... Pizza PPL is coming....

Seriously wondering if KS really ate all those chicken since I'm pretty sure GR was vegetarian... 

 

@crazyoverkdrama

Ack, what's poor Grim Reaper doing this time? Giving the reaped souls pizzas? Like, "Instead of drinking the elixir, let me share my pizzas with you?" Because I'm pretty sure he wears The Hat in that scene. I mean come on. 

Oh, and yes I'm sure Kim Shin ate all those chickens by himself (maybe Deok-hwa or Eun-tak ate some, too, if they're lucky...or unlucky, because the chicken menu seemed to have lasted for many, MANY nights in a row).

P.S. Yes, kind souls, I know PPLs fund this drama.  

Edited December 27, 2016 by selenette

[Visually-wandering]

13 minutes ago, LanA said:

So what's everybody's guess about the next kiss? What episode will it happen and initiate by who?

My thought is that it will hsppen in next week, episode 10 and initiate by KS (shyly and cutely )  And I guess we can't ask for a deep kiss since our KS doesn't seem to have any experience at all LOL 

I think he will get Reference on how to kiss from his library. Hundreds might be thousands of books collection, I'm sure there are some books about romance. Or may be he can ask Grim Reaper for a reference from dramas? Since our GR IS an avid kdrama lover, who knows GR will recommended him to watch  *cough* Coffee Prince *cough* kisses.

[aurelly]

Me when Goblin ends..

 

 

LOL..

Cr DramaTroll

[crazyoverkdrama]

12 minutes ago, selenette said:

 

The Grim Reaper

Since the Grim Reaper was a naive-turned-cruel King in the past, does he have to live his lonely life forever in self-hatred and guilt?

Is Sunny the Grim Reaper's punishment, and he hers?

How long do these two have to be punished to gratify the gods' whims?

 

Sunny

If Sunny is the Queen reborn, must forgetfulness be her only gods-sanctioned relief? Can't remembrances bring her solace, or is this not allowed?

Maybe the show is hinting something to us from the very beginning.  Maybe GRs are there because they did commit really grave sins, but at the last moment before they died, they felt REGRET.  Like the GR who ran away with his wife, maybe because it was by being GRs, they will be able to atone for their sins and by erasing them, they will not be tormeted by their sin. 

With Sunny, I read somewhere that people who are reincarnated tend to have lingering memories of the past. Like when people hate a name, place, a scent, or things.  That is why Sunny hated her name because unconsciously it reminded her a period where everything was sad and traumatic.  

Maybe Red Lady is giving them a chance to redeem themselves in this lifetime.  She allowed JET to be born because she loves KS who has been praying for an end, (that she actually HEARD his prayer), that GR to meet his wife again for a second chance and to make up for the past.  

It is only tragic that despite all these, someone has to pay for these miracles to happen. Let's just weather through these scenes and hope the writer will remain focused on giving everybody a happy ending.

[maryofbethany]

3 hours ago, packmule3 said:

 

I agree with @kaqueski and you, @nearsea: I don’t think the pacing is slow.

As for the complaints? WHO’s complaining again? 

Do you really think, @nearsea, that I’d let virtual strangers – and I bet, not a few of them are silly -- influence my preferences? Didn't I tell @selenette not to let other people's likes and dislikes bother her? 

Honestly, there’s so much going on UNDER THE SURFACE that I’m barely keeping up with pace.  It wouldn’t be surprising to me, if those people who find the pace slow are only skimming through Goblin in search of the next big bang explosion. They probably want action or mind-blowing revelations, and less introspection from the characters. Oh well.... 

In a way, these critics remind me of an Isak Dinesen short story called Babette’s Feast, that was made into a movie in 1987 (shoutout: it’s a year before Reply 1988). Have you seen it?  It’s about a retired chef of a world-famous Parisian café. She was working as a housekeeper for two poor unmarried sisters in a remote fishing village in Denmark. For more than a decade, she cooked austere and bland meals for the two spinsters, which must have been HELL for her considering her wasted talents. One day, she won a big prize money, and decided to spend her winnings on an extravagant dinner for 12 villagers. Of course, none of the villagers had ever tasted anything like her cuisine before in their lives, and only one diner, a visiting guest who was acquainted with Café d’anglais, marveled at the sumptuous feast. 

Well, to cut the story short -- 

To me, some Goblin critics can be like those simple fishing folks, @nearsea. If they were given “potage a la tortue” or turtle soup, they would snort and say that it tasted oddly like fishy chicken. If given Veuve Cliquot champagne, they’d sip and cough, whining it was too bitter. If they were to eat quail eggs with foie gras, they’d say “eggs are eggs.” Or if they were served “blinis demidoff” they wouldn’t be able to differentiate BUCKWHEAT flour from wheat flour (buckwheat is gluten-free).

Do you understand what I’m saying? Appreciation for the finer things in life, be it food, literature, plays, or a kdrama like Goblin, is NOT innate. Unfortunately so. People aren’t born with senses to immediately recognize superior, exquisite, or deeper things. They have to actually cultivate their faculties and their tastes in order to learn how to recognize these fine things. But the first important step to cultivating the senses is humility – simply admitting that they don’t know and understand a lot of things.

But but but, on another level, the Goblin critics can be UNLIKE the villagers in Babette’s Feast.

You see, in the play, the villagers learned to appreciate the food at the end. They might NOT have understood what they were eating, but they ate the food, and did NOT insult the chef. Despite their simple ways and even simpler tastes, they had a memorable time at Babette’s feast. Why? Because they knew that the nourishment they received so generously from an artiste like the chef, not only fed them physically but also enriched their lives long after that dinner.

Same thing with this kdrama. When I see a talented scriptwriter and her hard word being given short-shrift, I can only shake my head at the arrogance of people who think they know better than the scriptwriter. If they can’t appreciate the work, switching channels is an option. Or reading a book to educate themselves.  Or shutting up if they can't find a book within 50 feet. lol. But they really should leave the rest of us to enjoy the kdrama in peace.  

Anyway, what were you asking again? Ah! Fate versus destiny. 

I’ve written about this in other threads, so if some old-timers/posters have read this before, forgive me. I find that many people interchange fate and destiny as if they were one and the same. But in the classical Western world, there’s a subtle difference. Since you aren’t enrolled in a philosophy class, @nearsea, and I’m not a professor -- as you very well know -- I’ll keep it simple. 

Fate is something you have NO control over; you cannot change it; and it’s pre-set (or already determined) for you. It’s been given to you and it shapes who you are. It could be the family, physical abilities, or economic status you were born with or your country or your race.

On the other hand, destiny is what you do with this fate given to you. You have CONTROL over your destiny. You can change it.  You can alter it. You can mold it. You can even create it. The big difference between fate and destiny is CHOICE. You have a FREE WILL to choose what to make of your own destiny.

From the Western perspective then, fate is usually linked to resignation or passive acceptance, and the connotation is usually negative. That’s why we have words like fatal, ill-fated, fatalism and fatalistic. There’s a sense of being mortal, limited, disastrous, and deathly. For instance, “The rebels were fated to die in battle” or “He was fated to live in abject poverty.” There’s a sense of INABILITY to fight against the restraints and impositions on you, so you resign or accept your future as inevitable. 

...which is different from destiny. 

With destiny, there’s a sense of hope, of triumphing over adversities, of fighting against your limitations and of doing your best. That’s why we usually hear, “He’s destined for greatness” and NOT “He’s destined to become a loser.”  A presidential candidate can feel that he’s DESTINED to win the elections, but never he’s “fated to win” the election, because "fate" doesn't graciously and magically bestow elections on anybody.  A candidate actually has to work to win it.

Do see the difference?  With destiny, there’s a sense of defiance and resistance: you’re not giving in to what was predetermined for you. No matter what happens, you make your own choices. 

That is what I mean by I don’t believe in fate. I control my own fate. The predictors of my fate like horoscopes, palm-reading, fortunetelling, astrology, numerology, do NOT influence my decisions and actions. I carve out my own destiny. 

Now, how does this fate/destiny apply to our kdrama? 

It’s simple really.  There are two characters in the kdrama who behave like fate and destiny. Do you know who they are? 

Think about it for a second. Then go ahead and click on the spoiler to read what I think. 

 

  Hide contents

Uh-uh. No cheating now.  Don't peek until you've made your own guess. 

 

  Hide contents

Done?

I said earlier that kdrama has a yin-yang theme. But it’s not just an ET/Goblin yin-yang, but also a Reaper/Goblin yin-yang.

The Reaper can see the past, but he himself has no past. Meanwhile, the Goblin can see the future, but he himself has no future. 

But the Reaper also acts like fate in the show: he follows rules. For example, there’s a list of dead people that he needs to “collect” and help to transition over to the afterlife. He can’t deviate from the list. And he doesn’t allow those people to escape death either. He can’t take away the young ET however because her name isn’t included in the list of the dead. But in Episode 6, he tells her that there’s order in this life, and in her 9th, 19th, 29th year of life, a Reaper will appear before her, because “that is the FATE of a missing person.”  The Reaper is inevitable, inescapable. He does not diverge from the preordained course of actions.  He's death for ET while the Goblin gave ET life. 

The Goblin, on the other hand, acts like destiny. Sure, he can see the future, but he gives people the choice to break from the cycle, or do a course correction and move on to a different path. This is plain from the start when he rescues the young boy from an abusive stepfather. In Episode 4, he explains to the boy that the boy solved the math problem well, even though his answer did not correspond the answer Shin had given him. “Your choice alone is the answer to your life.” 

Note: This also heralds why ET is destined to make her own choice regardless of what the gods has fated for her. When given the right answers to the tests, both the boy and ET eschewed the “right answers” and decided to follow their own paths. 

As a matter of fact, Goblin disrupts the order that the Reaper wants in life. The old grandpa mentions this when he says that it's a good thing that Goblin exists because through him, some people can be given a strange and fortunate fortune, a miracle. And miracles, as we see in Episode 8, are something contrary to reapers' rule of order. 

There are other examples to show how the Reaper and Goblin behave like fate and destiny. But I have to stop now and entertain our house guests. We’re skating tonight and I need to look for my LUCKY (hahaha) pink skates and kneepads to protect my bum knee. 

 

I’m sure you and @maryofbethany, @romanov, @salz, @ariesw, @gutibear, @letataves (hello, newbie!) and the other ladies, can spot the other examples of fate and destiny in the kdrama. 

@phikyl, who was @LyraYoo shamelessly tagging? Me? Hahaha. I think our lyrayoo discovered the power of tagging. Tagging me @LyraYoo is similar to ET summoning Shin by blowing on the candles.  It’s a “couple” thing.  (Don't you love it when he popped up behind her after she blew the candle on her ice cream cake, and they exchanged glances? His was wry; hers was happy. And he tried to brush it off coolly in front of the guys, like "Hey, you wouldn't understand because it's a couple thing!")  

Hmmmm… will have to post soon about that BALL FAKE the writer did on the Reaper/Sunny thing. I almost fell for it, too, myself, if it weren’t for that "Liar’s Paradox" at the end….

@packmule3 hmmm.... loved all the thoughts provoking discourses here, so not much of trying to show ourselves "intellectual", but this show did inspired deeper meditations of life, and some even (like myself) wander into the realm of Christianity and "deity". in fact i rejected this show from the beginning because any theme that sought to portrayed the Almighty in any other light than biblical, i naturally abstain from it as this is my upbringing and where i served all these years in church ministries.... (yeah am a bad example of church work).

here you goes again, about fate, destiny,... should i add God's Predestination, which means He willed from the beginning everything about everyone even before our birth right to the moment where we died, means He alone is omniscience — meaning God knows everything about what shall happened to us, even when we deviating from His plan. But He still give us the free-will to choose our path and learn from our mistakes, and provide grace and forgiveness, when He already knew we will grab His Hands that He place along the way...... but He gave us the free-will to look for a hand, fall and allow us of our free-will to push ourselves up, and allow us to feel grateful when we are encouraged. As He put "road-blocks" to warn or protect, He does chastised when we need the canning, but each canning never be overly fatal till it caused death. So will he places "human-helpers" along our paths, to stop, re-direct us, encourage us. Idea of 'Fate" is far from this God-Directed Path, Fate is a "no-deity' handled path of auto-pilot, where, something that is beyond God runs, without grace and mercy, or judgement or wrath. Fate is like those horoscopes stuff, or Lucky-charms stuff... but truly cruel by itself, without any sense of believing there is a Higher Being, a Creator who feels for you, who will changed things around you, bestow mercy towards you. Predestination is adding and acknowledging God in the equation that Destiny left Him out.

i believed Goblin's plight, is like all these chastisements seems like punishment but will see all these amount to nothing in comparison of the blessing awaiting at the end of the tunnel, (those who grew up reading Pilgrim Progress will understand). what we deems as our personal lose, or Goblin as his wasted 939 years of wrath and pain, is but nothing in light of eternity before the Almighty. sometimes tribulations afterall are blessing in disguise to mould our characters, to make us better characters. i strongly believed, in the end the Deity that Goblin dealing with, will bestow grace upon him, not just because Kim Eunsook don believe in Sad Ending, (as her stories not the first time touches on 'disney fairy tales' theme".)
I think, if Goblin producers and writernim, want to inspire us, they should write the deity behind all these as a gracious patient omniscience God who will, wait for Goblin and Reaper to know their lesson, learn their lesson, achieve self-lessness and experienced "self-sacrifice" Earth-trembling One-True-Love... then bestow them morality, to grew old with their loved ones. 

 

Spoiler

And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; And patience, experience; and experience, hope: (Romans 5:3-4)

tribulations are like fire that burnt the impurities away from our characters, some who sees not the lessons and learn not the lessons will perish in the fire, but those who embrace the fire, will be like raw gold that purifies by fire.
Goblin, is such. how should i say, i shouldnt link biblical verses to Goblin which is a 'non-biblical' and "god-forbid" figure, hahah. to us, goblin don't exist, but Guardian Angels which God sent to watch over us does.

in this case, put aside biblical restrains, just look at this Goblin drama as a drama... else i just can't simply continue....

Goblin , aka Kim Shin is such. he make good of the tribulations, he worked tirelessly to help people, silently, knowing much of these will just greedily covet his gift, without gratitude, but he did knew that there are some, like the Boy (maths-test boy) who make good of his 'sandwiches" and become a better person thru his help.
he patiently waited for 939 years, while no knowing when is the bride coming..... he make good of the days while waiting, indulged in enjoyment of the knowledge he gained, and the luxuries life-style that can provide him access to Art / literature / music... all kind of entertainment which are healthy. instead of meddling wrongly with human life in grudges, he use his ability to help people. and keep remind himself and people (ET) to respect the higher destination and wills.