Add and Subtract Game

[partyon]

26 minutes ago, kokodus said:

So human species slowly gets extinct. Would that be a good thing or bad thing? You can't necessarily say it's a bad thing I guess. LOL. 

 

I think it's going to be inevitable that the human species will go extinct. And will it matter to us? No, because we will be dead anyway.

 

The overpopulation that we have is putting so much pressure on earth that we're destroying it.

 

And the Gen Z and Gen Alpha kids around today live in a much more unstable world than ever making kids prone to mental health struggles. The future is looking quite bleak from those kids' perspective....

 

19 minutes ago, Lmangla said:

so any event, people would have the time to show up and the communities were therefore very well-knit. 

 

While I can see that it surely must have been nice to have a well- and tight-knit society, wouldn't there be drawbacks with it too? With a society like that, the community will trump the individual's rights and desires, leaving especially the more vulnerable even more vulnerable. Society would build "communal rules" that everyone is expected to follow. With the lack of a better expression: like sheep.

 

19 minutes ago, Lmangla said:

now, it is a very different picture -- families are not only small but they are fragmented. there is no time to visit except at weddings and funerals. so many young adults don't necessarily know their relatives or take the time to develop relations. everyone is on the phone even within the same immediate family and don't talk to each other. so people are isolated.

 

But the positive outcome would be that people would also have more individual rights and less pressure from the community in making decisions? Like divorce, marriage, co-habitation, kids vs no kids, education, etc.?

 

26 minutes ago, kokodus said:

I'm not saying anything about marriage though, that is something that came in the middle. And we should do away with that concept. We can have kids without getting married. LOL. 

 

Having kids without marriage is the norm in most parts of Western Europe nowadays anyway. Marriage doesn't serve anymore as any kind of institution.

 

I know that a lot of people criticize individualism, but I still defend it. You need to make decisions that are good for you and your mental health. Does it mean that you should not take other people into consideration? No. But it means that you are making informed decisions regarding your own life without the pressure and fake rules that society might have built up. Those "rules" are not the truth anyway. Another society will have another set of these "rules" that go against your country's "rules".  It's just something someone sometime in your country back in the day came up with. Like not wearing white to a wedding as a guest. In the big context, does it REALLY matter if someone except for the bride is wearing a white dress...? Who made this rule up anyway?

 

Alright, am finally off to the gym!

 

Doing cardio today.

 

502

[kokodus]

11 minutes ago, partyon said:

With a society like that, the community will trump the individual's rights and desires, leaving especially the more vulnerable even more vulnerable. Society would build "communal rules" that everyone is expected to follow. With the lack of a better expression: like sheep

It is not as rigid as you think. It's not like if you don't conform to the norms you will be cast out. You will be chided for sure, but you can also be rest assured that you will have a family to fall back on when you have difficulties.

 

Also are we so fragile that we can't even take criticisms from our own family? I know the kids now are being brought up in a bubble, that they get broken with a slightest amount of trigger in the real world. They don't know how to handle pressure. 

 

When I was a teenager I also didn't like how my uncles or aunts used to poke into my life and give advice. You know my dad's elder brother, used to terrify me as a kid, he already looked scary but he also used to scold me and my cousins. But now I think that those scoldings came out of care and love. If he didn't see me as his own daughter, would he have scolded me? We are becoming too cynical now to understand all this. And we are living in a cocoon, protected with a bubble wrap. It's not a bad thing, but we are not understanding how we are missing out on the flavour of life. Our life would be so one dimensional, if everything and everyone is behaving according to your wishes. Lol. 

-2

[Lmangla]

@partyon ~ this is a complicated answer in some ways. so what @kokodus was asking is actually a policy question that many governments are grappling with. I have seen quite a few news docs about falling birth rates in certain countries and the impacts it will have. there are going to be huge economic as well as social fallouts with having an aging population that is more than a younger workforce.

 

now, keeping that aside, I do think there are benefits as well as drawbacks to individualism. you already mentioned the lack of choice or personal autonomy as some of the negatives to community-knit dynamics. now let me share some of the positives:

 

in the story I shared about the kid, I remember the conversation with my mom. she felt that the kid was really lucky that the aunt is a very nice woman, lived in the same property and was willing to chip in. otherwise, this kid would have suffered more. so there is a safety net with having these extended families and close community ties.

 

people chip in, sometimes even financially when there is strong community and family ties. in the old days, many financially well-off families would help the lesser/struggling ones. so there was less instances of suicides from financial debt. however, that is really now on the rise.

 

the lack of support and community means loneliness is now an epidemic and many struggle with mental health. they fall prey to love scams and there is a lot of other related crime problems.

 

there is only so much the government can do because there is a lack of trained mental health professionals. the ratio is something like 1 to 3000 in cities and is far larger in rural and semi-rural areas. before, people could talk to other people in their family when they are struggling. 

 

as individualism is rising, people are actually feeling more overwhelmed and stressed out because they feel like they have to do everything by themselves. 

 

this post is already long enough -- will answer koko's question in another...

504

[Lmangla]

to answer your question on why there are falling birth rates, you have to watch the news @kokodus. at least within Asian context, the same issues are playing out in different countries. I genuinely won't be surprised if birth rate falls in our country but it is just numbers game and matter of time.

 

so here are some of the reasons:

1. lack of daycare -- before there was the village raising the child attitude because literally there was a 1000 people in the house. even if the parents can't do something, there was aunts, cousins, grandmothers and so on. now, daycare is such a worry and problem. if you have to send your kid to a creche, it can be more than some salary. grandparents are either unwilling to move or don't have the physical strength to chip in to offer support. so parents feel overwhelmed and the baby feels like a disruption rather a blessing. 

 

2. lack of emotional support -- in the old days, there were people around to offer you all sorts of advice on how to raise a baby. so no one had to turn to forums or internet for advice. you just ask your grandmother or the aunt or the neighbour. now, the lack of support means many parents feel overwhelmed as well as isolated. 

 

according to the 2021 NCRB (national crime records) data, the number of people who died from suicide was more than covid. I was bamboozled and shocked when I saw the official data. it just goes to show how overwhelmed people are. the top reasons were financial debt, relationship issues, exam pressure.

 

what was striking was the percentage of young housewives on the data. whether it was problems from in-laws, addiction, depression, violence, we don't know what are the causes because it hasn't been studied yet. however, what we can draw is that women are feeling overwhelmed by marriage and motherhood -- this results in some women not wanting to pursue even relationships as a result.

 

3. the terrible work culture -- we don't have a work life balance and we really need laws to curb these corporates who are just modern day slave masters. people are so overworked that you hear of someone in their 30s dropping dead from a heart attack as he worked 17-18 hours per day.

 

the lack of personal time means people are so exhausted that they don't have time to even work on their physical, mental and emotional self. so that leaves them rejected in dating because they are not well-rounded.  if they do manage to get married, there is no time for relationship development and that leads to unexplained infertility as well as issues that can lead to divorce.... 

 

4. the rising cost of living -- because there is no safety net, people are constantly worried. there is also the competitive nature and chasing success. so everything becomes about money.

 

people are not valuing relationships and instead put a money number on the cost of raising a child. so the child becomes a liability rather than a blessing. here, government needs to chip in to ease some of these financial pressures such as the cost of education and access to universities

 

5. can't do it all -- this ties in to the above but many feel like they already have too many responsibilities as is. whether it is aging parents, taking care of the house, the office etc, people are recognizing that they cannot do it all. so they are choosing to sacrifice parenthood because they do not have the emotional resources for it. 

 

re: @partyon

[WeunXK]

2 hours ago, partyon said:

It's more important to lead a happy and fulfilling life - be it alone or with someone else. NEVER EVER be reliant on a man for finances, mental security or physical security. Don't settle for something or someone who is not allowing you to fulfill your dreams or bring down your happiness. The most important person in your life is YOU!

And as a woman, you need to be self-reliant - especially when it comes to your finances.

 

As married woman I speak for myself maybe I am just lucky that my husband(was also my childhood friend and we grow up in a family that supported us our own decision) my husband allowed me to grow and also gave encourage me in my job and how to take care our 2 kids and if he was not busy in his job he help me a lot🥰 

Even if a woman is married she should had time for herself ,as we need to be self-reliant. as posted by @partyon

 

2 hours ago, partyon said:

Therefore, like marriage, having kids should also not be something "we should just do" just because "society expects it".

 

1 hour ago, Lmangla said:

now, it is a very different picture -- families are not only small but they are fragmented. there is no time to visit except at weddings and funerals. so many young adults don't necessarily know their relatives or take the time to develop relations. everyone is on the phone even within the same immediate family and don't talk to each other. so people are isolated.

Yes I agree some of my relatives just that liked  described by @Lmangla chingu

 

1 hour ago, partyon said:

 You need to make decisions that are good for you and your mental health. Does it mean that you should not take other people into consideration? No. But it means that you are making informed decisions regarding your own life without the pressure and fake rules that society might have built up.

 

====

@partyon @Lmangla

your insights in human relationships are really an eye-opener/commendable chingus

 

Spoiler

 

===

506

 

[kokodus]

27 minutes ago, Lmangla said:

genuinely won't be surprised if birth rate falls in our country but it is just numbers game and matter of time

It has already fallen. Only 5 states in India have fertility rate above the replacement level. And our state is not one of them. LOL. I agree with all your points, how many stories I myself have heard from my friends and relatives who have cited atleast one of the reason you have mentioned above to not wanting to get married or have kids. 

 

Government policies are there, but they are not getting implemented properly. It is mandatory for all the offices having more than 50 employees to have creche facility now. But who is going to check whether they have followed this. Plus we have a large number of people working in informal sector. It's hard to regulate them. Policy framing is not a problem. Implementation is the problem. 

 

On a individual level, people are complicating things too much now, I believe. Social media is not helping. People are falling for a false sense of hope and happiness that is getting portrayed in social media. Plus I don't get why everyone wants to be happy all the time. I dont get all these "happiness is the goal" posts. Those are just emotions. I can be happy now, but sad later and angry the next moment. So what? Tsk tsk. 

 

-2

[Thong Thin]

+ 2

 

@partyon  am here.

 

Hello @WeunXK  !

 

 

Hope everyone here have a relaxing weekend.

 

 

 

 

 

[Lmangla]

1 hour ago, WeunXK said:

====

@partyon @Lmangla

your insights in human relationships are really an eye-opener/commendable chingus

thanks chingu; I think like with all things, we need a balance. yes, we need personal development but we also need community of relatives and friends. regardless of where we are in life and what our relationship status is, we should actively work on both these facets. a tree does not grow unless you plant a seed. so we need to make the choice to connect to other people and we need to make the choice to grow our self. otherwise, all sorts of chaos and mayhem. 

 

1 hour ago, kokodus said:

On a individual level, people are complicating things too much now, I believe. Social media is not helping. People are falling for a false sense of hope and happiness that is getting portrayed in social media. Plus I don't get why everyone wants to be happy all the time. I dont get all these "happiness is the goal" posts. Those are just emotions. I can be happy now, but sad later and angry the next moment. So what? Tsk tsk. 

am so glad you said it. sometimes, I feel old or out of place by how much people complicate things and I think "huh?????"  goal-focused happiness will not make one happier. we can reach a goal such as having a nice car or house and still be very unhappy.

 

we need to know how to be happy in the moment regardless of what storm we are in -- whether it is enjoying a nice drama, or having cuppa with friends or playing with your pet -- there are so many joys and happiness which are not dependent on a goal or situation. 

 

508

[kokodus]

4 minutes ago, Lmangla said:

am so glad you said it. sometimes, I feel old or out of place by how much people complicate things and I think "huh?????"  goal-focused happiness will not make one happier. we can reach a goal such as having a nice car or house and still be very unhappy.

Agreed. I'll tell you one story. There is this one friend of mine who is my college friend. She wants to pursue post graduation. She attempted the exam many times but she couldn't clear it. In between she couldn't prepare well as well, which is a fact even she accepted it as she was working simultaneously. She has been working for 5 years now. She knows many things and she is more experienced than me in that sense. I just have a post graduation degree. But she compares herself with all others and is now saying that she has not accomplished anything in life. She also has taken it to her ego that couldn't pass that single exam and get a seat. She thinks that she will be settled, if she does post graduation. I already advised her that it's not all that. But coming from me who has already completed the course, she is not buying it. It's difficult talking to her now. You should see her depressing posts in Instagram. Sigh. Aside from this her parents are also worried that she is not married yet. Her parents are very old, she is born late. Her parents are in their 70s. She is the only child. I do not know how to talk to her, anything I say she is getting offended. She is being so sensitive now. She is going to therapy. I can only hope that it helps her. Sigh. 

 

-2

[joccu]

@partyon  definitely most of the ML in lakorns are red flags. I actually can’t remember green flag ml in lakorn. 
 

@Lmangla   I can totally relate. Almost every day someone wants to talk about their problems or worries about their children.  
 

the biggest issue is that the children uses their phones too much. They don’t play games or hang out with friends outdoors.  
 

 

I had last day of this semester.  Even though it is nice that this semester is over I also feel bit sad. Our 6 graders are moving to another school. Luckily I have so many good memories about them. 
 

@partyon  this summer I have no plans.  Only plan I have that I will go see Pink in Sweden.  Who knows what this summer will bring. 
 

504
 

 

[Lmangla]

8 minutes ago, joccu said:

the biggest issue is that the children uses their phones too much. They don’t play games or hang out with friends outdoors.  

it is a huge problem here as well. these kids grow up with no human connections and then feel completely lost when hit by a crisis. we really underestimate the importance of playing. 

 

a story I heard when I was in the salon: this 5-6 year old child was not speaking at all. parents took to doctors and it turned out that there was nothing wrong physically with the child. it is just that the child has been raised on a device and the parents were always busy on their comps working. no one spent time talking to the child and thus, the child didn't know how to speak, how to interact with people.

 

because of covid, the child had been utterly shut in with no interaction to anyone. even the parents were so busy that the kid responded to the tab but not to parent

 

the doctors told them to put aside all tech and actually spend time chatting together as a family. the kid struggled initially in school but was slowly getting the hang of spending time with other humans and what that meant....

 

so yea, too much time on phones and technology is making the world go mad in some ways! we forget that relationships and human connect is so important for all of us. no wonder we are seeing a loneliness epidemic everywhere even though we are supposedly more connected through technology....

 

508

[joccu]

@Lmangla  reading and AI is also big problem. Children these days  can’t read and understand. And with AI they don’t eventually have to write anything own. They can just copy everything. 
 

506

 

[rocat]

7 hours ago, partyon said:

And I hear that c-dramas have a lot of male red flags too?

Anything this guy is in:

Dylan Wang in Love Between Fairy and Devil

 

That’s just off the top of my head cos he’s one of my C-drama xiaogege  I think he’s been stereotyped but seeing him in his element in variety shows, I can understand why.

 

-2

 

[partyon]

On 6/1/2024 at 10:08 AM, kokodus said:

It is not as rigid as you think. It's not like if you don't conform to the norms you will be cast out. You will be chided for sure, but you can also be rest assured that you will have a family to fall back on when you have difficulties.

 

I was speaking generally, not specifically about your culture. I mean, I've learnt a lot about k-culture during the last 15 years, and we see similar mentality there. Everybody must conform to this one standard that they have: same face (through PS), same weight (through severe diet), do not stand out, same clothes / makeup, Seoul University degree, etc. People feel like they are less worth when they can't live up to these standards. See how severely celebrities are being "punished" in media? Wonder how bad it it is for normal people then?

 

And sorry to say, but it's quite sad to have to live in a society that has set such severe "rules" someone somewhere during a family dinner made up. It's a society where the community is more worth than the individual. So any non-comformity is always at the expense of the individual and the gain of the society.

 

On 6/1/2024 at 10:09 AM, Lmangla said:

the lack of support and community means loneliness is now an epidemic and many struggle with mental health. they fall prey to love scams and there is a lot of other related crime problems.

 

I don't think severe individualism is good either, especially if there is not government support. A good example is the Nordic countries which have strong individualism, but also strong support for the government. Basically, you do not need your family anymore for anything once you turn 18. The government will take care of you.

 

Yes, the drawback is that there can be loneliness and some people might isolate themselves to the extent of depression. But sorry to say, that happens in non-individualistic societies as well. Family still matters in individualistic societies on a mental and emotional level. But from a financial perspective, it doesn't.

 

23 hours ago, WeunXK said:

Even if a woman is married she should had time for herself ,as we need to be self-reliant. as posted by @partyon

 

Yes to this 100% !

As soon as you make yourself reliant on another person (especially financially), you give up your autonomy as a woman. Back in the day when women weren't working and were stay at home moms, you might have experienced the shock of your life once your husband found a younger woman and left you for her in his 50s. There you are, with no work experience, no accumulated wealth, no pension to talk about and you wonder how you're even gonna survive...

Seen too many women fall into this trap in my grandparents' and parents' generations.

 

Am glad that women in my generation and younger are smarter than that, and make sure to get educated, work, make their own money, own their own property, etc. Personally, I do not know a single stay-at-home-mom in my region of Europe (if you don't count a materntity leave). Women need to be smart about their future and not take any risks!

 

23 hours ago, WeunXK said:

your insights in human relationships are really an eye-opener/commendable chingus

 

Thanks, I guess it comes with age. I think very differently now as an ahjumma compared to when I was a 20 year old.

 

22 hours ago, Thong Thin said:

am here.

 

Good to hear from you! How are you? How's your foot? Watching any dramas?

 

+2

21 hours ago, joccu said:

I had last day of this semester.  Even though it is nice that this semester is over I also feel bit sad. Our 6 graders are moving to another school. Luckily I have so many good memories about them. 

 

Congrats @joccu ! Hope you have a relaxing summer vacation!

 

19 hours ago, rocat said:

Anything this guy is in:

 

That's Ms. Koko's oppa - LOL

502C

[rocat]

For green flags, here’s one I am currently watching…

 

 

Simon Gong in period drama, Fox Spirit Matchmaker

 

-no number-

 

where’s @Ameera Ali these days…

[partyon]

11 minutes ago, rocat said:

where’s @Ameera Ali these days…

 

Probably searching for abs somewhere else than kdramas.

Maybe in Thai BL dramas?

 

502

[rocher22]

8 hours ago, partyon said:

 

 

Most MLs in Thai lakorns. @Lmangla @joccu you agree?

 

And I hear that c-dramas have a lot of male red flags too?

 

 

thai dramas

 

Kavin from F4: BOF

 

 

 

Cdramas

 

Dylan's character in Love Between Fairy and Devil

 

 

The SML in  My Journey To You...

 

 

 

Although, in the drama the real red flags are the FL and the SFL....

 

 

 

 

6 hours ago, partyon said:

 

I know that a lot of people criticize individualism, but I still defend it. 

 

 

18 hours ago, MayanEcho said:

Meme and Mitchie had the cutest, most wholesome, and age appropriate BL drama. 🙂

 

 

yay...The eraser couple....

 

 

500

[joccu]

@partyon  thank you. I will definitely enjoy. 
 

498

[partyon]

@joccu Am trying to watch ep 3 of Bitter Sweet Hell....

 

The script is so weird - can't find a connection with the characters. Unfortunately I will have to drop this drama.

 

500

19 minutes ago, rocher22 said:

Kavin from F4: BOF

 

Him and about everyone else in Thai lakorns 😬

 

Waiting for @agenth to get home, so we can watch Twinkling Watermelon ep 1 together.

 

Wondering if I should bake some cookies in the meantime?

[MayanEcho]

2 hours ago, rocat said:

Anything this guy is in:

 

Dylan Wang wasn't a red flag in Miss The Dragon. 😆 It was Deng Wei who was unhinged in that drama a lot of times. 

 

1 hour ago, rocher22 said:

The eraser couple....

 

👀 👀 👀

 

 

"Hide and seek"

 

 

😅😅😅😅

 

Ooo, there's a more matured, Thai version???

 

 

I'm kinda scratching my head cos it doesn't look HS compared to the Japanese drama? 

 

The uniform is so ugly awkward, LOL! If it isn't PE why are these HS students in shorts, as if they're kindergartners? 😆

 

Aha, they also have a gorilla girl, mwehehe!

 

498