[Drama 2014-2015] Valid Love 일리있는 사랑

[partyon]

lclarakl said:

Partyon, I wondered the same thing about whether we really weren't seeing the many layers to IR due to the acting.  Although she ends up with HT, I'm not convinced that's where she wants to be. She was the most contradictory character with words and actions. The subtle expressions were missing. It reminded me of the drama Big Man, I could never like the lead female because she was extremely one dimensional and it showed--badly. The second female lead stole the show; she was able to bring her character to life.  I just feel the actress here was the hardest character to read and became my least favorite; mainly due to writing, but also due to portrayal of the character.

[JoannaOC]

@chickfactor, thanks so much for always answering the call to translate!  How I wish we could get a glimpse of their ideas rather than the usual respectful platitudes. I'd really love to know if the actors and crew ever really talked about this stuff.

I appreciate the conversations that took place in this thread. And the jokes!

Sorting through my own responses to this particular drama at this stage in my life has been fascinating and fun, and I refrained from sharing all of that here because "get a blog" would have been the appropriate response.

When Kim Joon says to Il Ri "you love each other but are you happy?" and to Il Ri's mother "you don't have to hit her, you can use your words" or to Hee Tae's father, "you can speak to your wife gently and slowly" he is saying out loud for the audience some of the principles that  an evolving idea of family could expand to include, in which violence and shaming do not have to be endured in the name of tradition. Is that too much to ask? I don't think so.

I recently marathoned Tree with Deep Roots and loved it because it is a story about language and writing, and not just revenge and power struggles. It dramatizes a real turning point in Korean culture, when rigid authoritarian power structures are faced with a democratization of culture that would allow a different kind of personhood for women and the people.

It doesn't hurt that Jang Hyuk gets to chew the scenery LSY gets to wear period costume and a mask, hey-oh!

[Guest ascsp]

@JoannaOC‌ Well, before you get a blog you could share something here The sentences that you mentioned are some of my favourite of KJ (apart from come slowly and stay for a long time!)

[TeBe]

sooyoungdaebak

said:

@Ic85 Believe me, till the end I was waiting for that surprise ending the writer had promised but it never happened! 
Continuing "HT is crazy" story...hahaha...you may skip this. 
Since the Jangs are nice to HT, he would come unannounced sometimes. They pity him and invite him to join them for dinner. HS is vocal towards HT's presence in their house and since she doesn't like him, he made her paralyzed and unable to talk in his fantasy story. The neighbor with a son knows HT has a crush on IR cause he saw HT stalking IR and KJ, secretly taking their pics with his cellphone. Thus we saw those pics in his cellphone.KJ got to know HT because he asked KJ to make a chair. Even though KJ knows HT's mentally unstable, he still make a chair for him and was nice/kind towards him. In HT's mind, KJ hates him. Things started to get out of hand when KJ saw HT stalking IR one day. KJ told IR to stop working with HT because he's crazy but IR believes HT is harmless. The couple fight over HT and their relationship was strained. HT hates KJ and wants him to disappear...porever. KJ wants IR to be away from HT so he decided to open another studio in a city down South. HT followed him there unnoticed. One early morning, to relieve stress, KJ went fishing at a secluded lake. HT came up quietly from behind and hit him in the head with a hammer. He then continued to hit KJ, killing him. HT then made his way home. And thus we saw him sitting outside the mart, drinking and at peace with himself. Enjoying the sunny morning. All is well in HT's world. 
This is a much better plot twist...hahaha.  

[sooyoungdaebak]

Weeks ago, I asked two friends to watch Valid Love. One is a huge fan of UTW and another is a Stepford wife. 
The UTW fan texted me today and said, "Urghhh, the guy is a bothersome. Why did they kiss?? Poor hubby!". Hmm...she's thinking of her bias's feelings. There's already that dislike for KJ's character. Not much difference than some commenters from this thread and others. I think she will miss seeing the bigger picture and simply rejoice with the drama ending. 
I'm curious to hear the Stepford wife's response when KJ comes into the picture. Will she outcast IR and want to throw her in the fire cos she cheated on The-Best-Son-in-law in town? Or will she appreciate KJ's existence in the end?  

[Guest ascsp]

@TeBe‌

Maybe I love you.

And it's a valid one.

The "first love is porever" syndrome is strong in dramas. The fact that at 18 we are all immature is not important. Is the first one so it will last until the end!

My firs love was when I were 7. We met at school. We used to draw for fun "the amazing city of red beans" where beans could go around, ride bycicle, eat, be doctors and moms and live in little round houses.

Now when I eat beans I cry deeply over my meal thinking about him!

[chickfactor]

JoannaOC said: @chickfactor, thanks so much for always answering the call to translate!  How I wish we could get a glimpse of their ideas rather than the usual respectful platitudes. I'd really love to know if the actors and crew ever really talked about this stuff.

I appreciate the conversations that took place in this thread. And the jokes!

Sorting through my own responses to this particular drama at this stage in my life has been fascinating and fun, and I refrained from sharing all of that here because "get a blog" would have been the appropriate response.

When Kim Joon says to Il Ri "you love each other but are you happy?" and to Il Ri's mother "you don't have to hit her, you can use your words" or to Hee Tae's father, "you can speak to your wife gently and slowly" he is saying out loud for the audience some of the principles that  an evolving idea of family could expand to include, in which violence and shaming do not have to be endured in the name of tradition. Is that too much to ask? I don't think so.

I recently marathoned Tree with Deep Roots and loved it because it is a story about language and writing, and not just revenge and power struggles. It dramatizes a real turning point in Korean culture, when rigid authoritarian power structures are faced with a democratization of culture that would allow a different kind of personhood for women and the people.

It doesn't hurt that Jang Hyuk gets to chew the scenery LSY gets to wear period costume and a mask, hey-oh!

[TeBe]

ascsp said: @TeBe‌ Maybe I love you. And it's a valid one. The "first love is porever" syndrome is strong in dramas. The fact that at 18 we are all immature is not important. Is the first one so it will last until the end! My firs love was when I were 7. We met at school. We used to draw for fun "the amazing city of red beans" where beans could go around, ride bycicle, eat, be doctors and moms and live in little round houses. Now when I eat beans I cry deeply over my meal thinking about him!

[MochiRochi]

ascsp said: Thank for your long reply.
I understand the fact that you like the story because you don't find it few believable and you don't think that a lot of characters and situation were only plot devices, and so you aren't disappointed, and that's fine. Valid love was conceived and writted and acted and aired for people like you, probably. And this is fine too.
For me, as a "writer" and (not korean) viewer it's not so simple to accept this plot. I want something different. Maybe because I am not korean or asian, maybe because I am long time married, maybe because I am tired sick of shows where hot actors are used only to gather interest of (female) viewers but in the actual story they are just like a bycicle to go somewhere and nothing more. In this case I truly believed that the carpenter could be a meaningful character, and as I written some days ago, the realization that the character was just a plot device (a mirror) truly disappointed me. HT and IR back togeter it's fine, I don't find it believable, but it's fine. Carpenter as a object, it's not fine, for me.
Now I really know what a (hovewer tasteful and stylish) korean drama could and cold not be. So from now on, if I will watch other dramas, I will chose more wisely.

[sooyoungdaebak]

Hahaha... @tebe I would gladly accept mind-twisting-horror-melo ending than this what-the-heck-is-wrong-with-the-writer ending! That porever was brought up by one of our chingu. I chuckle everytime HT said it. 
I criticized and feel disappointed with this writer's work. She is making a drama for a cable channel which has more freedom than SBS/KBS. I was hoping for an ending that is not sugarcoated and make sense. The drama has the potential to be different than other affair dramas. That's why I continued to watch. It still hurts to see the pictures of KJ saving IR, KJ being there for her, KJ sweet moments with IR. IR doesn't have those sweet memories with HT because they didn't travel for 7 years after they got back from their honeymoon. Now when she goes to do these "sweet stuffs", I'm sure she will remember the time she did it with KJ. That sucks for HT. The way I look at her going back to HT is her way of giving her marriage another chance. This time without her compassion for HS to hold her back from doing things with her husband. That guilt of not having a proper married life, letting their relationship blossom, them doing what normal married couples do, made her go back to her husband. Was it deep love? Not really in my view. Couples like this will go two ways: they will either continue their marriage porever or they will divorce eventually. 

[missjb]

I don't know if Kim Joon used merely used as a plot device. I don't feel like that until the the second half of the drama. And even then his character is more developed well  sincet then. SInce despite his only real connection with people around him is only helped by  Il Ri's presence, he is too layered to considering as merely plot device. His function is to makes Hee Tae and Il Ri become aware of their flaws, but he is not a one dimensional second lead either. His character is really the strong one. SO yeah I abit disagreed. Less developed, I agree, but I find his character was fleshed out more believable than both Hee Tae and even Il RI's which I find confusing me at times. Hee Tae's character is already very well flesh out until the writers use a dementia plot card,  he is becoming more into abit one note and too good to be true husband. Il RI's character  getting duller, especially in the last episode, and the actress seems aware of it and no longer care more about her character.  That grey area I loved gradually fade away and become black and white. 

[Guest snklgs]

Kim Joon had really awesome lines., and true we got more of a sense of who he was compared to the other charcters. Of course , I'm biased^^. But I do think the writer was also conflicted whether she should follow through with HT or kj. Well, until the last couple of eps where the set up was ht. But I do like the fact that she thought enough not to kill him off^^.

[Guest ascsp]

@‌MochiRochi

KJ was a plot device but don't seems one until the end. In fact i felt him more real than HT, and in the end than IR too.

@missjb

Totally agree

[lc85]

Oh no! @chickfactor‌ - are you leaving us? I hope not. Please come back..Like you said, I think VL "ruined" me too. I don't know if there are other dramas worth watching at the moment.

Ok @sooyoungdaebak‌ - going to add to your list of unanswered things in VL (if someone has an answer, please share):

@sooyoungdaebak‌ started with:

1. How did HS become paralyzed?

2. Who is HT narrating to?

I am adding:

3. The hands seen opening the memory box seem different in each episode-- IRs? HS?

4. The castadiva name - did it finally make sense after Ep 20? I am still confused..

5. The piano player with HS -- her lover or almost-lover?

6. Did HT and SJ have a relationship while he was studying abroad, before he returned to Korea and marry IR? If SJ is HTs first love -- then why did they break up? Or did they break up? I am confused about them too.

Ok -- please share answers or speculations. I am hesitant to rewatch VL for now.

[Guest snklgs]

@lc85
Here's my shallow take on things...
1. HS got paralyzed due to paralytical dementia syndrome which runs in the Jang Family DNA
2. HT is narrating to himself due to dementia
3. There are different hands because the effect is to induce dementia on the audience....WOT? Wot hands? ... Kim Joon's hot hands^^ OMG! Even his hands are hawt:)...told you this was going to be shallow^_~
4.  The name CastaDiva doesn't have to make sense at all since it makes sense in a world that doesn't make sense ex. Mom getting dementia, Ilri choosing HT over uber hawt KJ.
5. The piano player is the guy who gave HS dementia-inducing virus!!! 
6.  SJ probably has dementia and making it all up, and HT is playing with her on some RPG- Dementia cyber world.

..... ahhmmm, in conclusion...
I think I have dementia because I can't let VL go yet. I am in DENIAL that it is OVER:(   I rewatched the BTS of the hammer and kiss scene.  Also LSH's interview.  I am only planning on watching ep 3-5 ad nauseum and the one where they went on a picnic. As far as I am concerned in terms of rewatching, the drama ended the first time Ilri dumped KJ....like, I am not masochist enough to watch Ilri dump and dump KJ to death. The last 2 episodes are just too excruciating in my memory to warrant a rewatch at this point.

I am going to watch LSH's old dramas, that is my first-aid to the ImissKJlikemymommy^^  Da Eff, that last statement did NOT make sense at all...must be the dementia.

[Guest ascsp]

Well...

LSH was a bit... how can I say... well his past drama are not so...

He wasn't very good in the past.

Phew, I said it.

Don't hit me. He was just very young. And less hot, until his shoulders grows a bit. Sorry sorry sorry. Now he is mr Hot, best carpenter in the world, and a good actor too. He needed time and a more meaningful role to play, that's all.

[lc85]

@snklgs‌ - I love your dementia-themed response! Blame it on the "dementia", I say.

I read previous pages with some posts talking about how beautiful HT-IR's relationship is. I am wondering what they found so "beautiful" about them. If we were to remove KJ from the story, I think there would still be a story there -- minus the slapping etc because of the affair-- and all the events unfolding the same way. I am unable to find the "beauty" in HT and IR's relationship still. There were no scenes that stood out where I was moved and rooted for them to make it. Anyone else? Did I not have an open mind for HT-IR? Did I put them in a "box" from the get-go?

[Guest Manolya]

Can someone please translate the complete interview of LSH, thank you and sorry If I ask that too often, its because I cant get over VL and I really want to know what he said. Thank you!!!!  ^^

[Guest ascsp]

@snklgs‌ -

I love your dementia-themed response! Blame it on the "dementia", I say.

I read previous pages with some posts talking about how beautiful HT-IR's relationship is. I am wondering what they found so "beautiful" about them. If we were to remove KJ from the story, I think there would still be a story there -- minus the slapping etc because of the affair-- and all the events unfolding the same way. I am unable to find the "beauty" in HT and IR's relationship still. There were no scenes that stood out where I was moved and rooted for them to make it. Anyone else? Did I not have an open mind for HT-IR? Did I put them in a "box" from the get-go?

Well...

I'm thinking....

They have a lot of... cute photos? And he is very good at giving her piggyback rides.... and I give up. No. I don't feel them so much beautiful, sorry.

[lc85]

@ascsp‌ - I am curious about what others saw that I didn't see. I feel like I missed out on the beauty. And why should they give their marriage a chance? That's my other question. I really didn't see the point as to why they should - even without KJ in the mix.

Not going to criticize or blame the writer anymore --but if I knew a couple like HT and IR-- I probably would tell them to call it quits, too. I wonder if that makes me a bad friend.