[Drama 2020/2021] Queen Cheorin/Mr. Queen, 철인왕후

[aren_117]

I really think that Bong Hwan came to love Cheoljong because of Soyong. Without her, he would've felt nothing for CJ. His feelings drastically changed after he/she was in a vegetative state. So I think that after that time, Sobong may felt and thought that he was Bong Hwan but in reality, it was both of them combined. Kind of like a fusion like in dragon ball. Hahaha like goten and trunks something like that hahahhaha so I felt like Soyong still has a part in everything. She did not freeload from Bong Hwan because she is still there. Just as Bong Hwan felt like he is Soyong sometimes, Soyong also felt the same way. That's my theory though. 

[gglex6275]

2 minutes ago, redyellowred said:

 

..And I thought the industry have started becoming more progressive 

Progressive? In what dimension are we talking about here? LOL! 

[aren_117]

2 minutes ago, gglex6275 said:

Let us see here, the dynamics of the entire palace will change because in the first place SY is not and in no way SB! 

 

Kitchen Dynamic - SY does not cook. So the created relationship between the royal chef and the cooks in the kitchen, kaput! The relationship cultivated there will just be a mere fragment of the memory (which we would like to assume that the writers would forget). In reality, those fostered relationship makes a person what he/she is. 

 

Will this mean that SY will never set foot in the kitchen, since she really does not have any inclination to cook? Neither does she have the talent. 

 

SB has a good relationship with the concubines.  How will it be after? How will the concubines react to the former super friendly queen to this self-conscious queen?

 

Royal Doctor - We have to remember that the Royal Physician also has some sort of love-hate relationship with SB! He was the one who knew the emotional struggles of SB! He may not understand half of what SB says, he did say it.

 

The eunuchs and the palace maids. SB formed a sort of relationship with them as well, remember during the fill up the lake fiasco?

 

All of these became open ended.

 

How on earth did they resolve the issues, disregarding everything else that was consequential to the build up of SB's social sphere?

 

 

Bong Hwan remembers all of Soyong's past memories so maybe Soyong also knows about Bong Hwan's memories in the future too? And her personality is basically a tamer Bong Hwan. So I still think they are one. But I still need more explanations! 

[gglex6275]

1 minute ago, aren_117 said:

Bong Hwan remembers all of Soyong's past memories so maybe Soyong also knows about Bong Hwan's memories in the future too? And her personality is basically a tamer Bong Hwan. So I still think they are one. But I still need more explanations! 

What she remembers are the memories that JBH had while he was in her body, but bear in mind that she does not have his knowledge (politics, skills and over all experience). Remember that SB and CJ have their nightly ritual of story telling, so does this mean it does not happen after?

 

SY does not have memories of the future. So she will have nothing to say further about what interests CJ. He is interested in social science, remember as SB said, since he always looked forward to their nightly talks.

[shimshimae]

16 minutes ago, kara_mella said:

 

If BH have loved someone that would have been SY, not the King  I know it's not what you want to read, but she saved him to save her - they are bound to each other - she stayed in her body for the very reason - he was a solution that appeared at the very moment - she didn't "go" in his body - there is no switch here.

 

He had an out of body experience - a more like near death experience and falling into water that serves as a portal to another world - of past times - he is saved and can return from is comatose state 

I want to respectfully disagree chingu, I'm still so emotionally distressed about the ending - why did they show SY going down the lake in ep 13? Wasn't that like a symbolic departure of SY? I don't find the ending emotionally satisfying 

[gglex6275]

Well I am going to sleep now, I am so upset about this. Not a very happy camper with this ending. For me, it smacks of how backward still they are in societal norms (it is glaringly obvious what they tried to avoid). 

 

I guess SK is happy that it is now back to a male -female scenario rather than the heterosexual male wanting to have sex with another heterosexual male.

 

CJ will never again experience the 'aummm' with his queen! After all, I do not think SY has it in her to be the initiator.

[xinyue99]

11 minutes ago, aren_117 said:

I really think that Bong Hwan came to love Cheoljong because of Soyong. Without her, he would've felt nothing for CJ. His feelings drastically changed after he/she was in a vegetative state. So I think that after that time, Sobong may felt and thought that he was Bong Hwan but in reality, it was both of them combined. Kind of like a fusion like in dragon ball. Hahaha like goten and trunks something like that hahahhaha so I felt like Soyong still has a part in everything. She did not freeload from Bong Hwan because she is still there. Just as Bong Hwan felt like he is Soyong sometimes, Soyong also felt the same way. That's my theory though. 

I would agree with you, BUT then I remember there was a scene where SY soul (?) drowned to the bottom of the lake. so what was the point of that scene ?

 

I am not against SY-CJ ending, but they just don’t give us proper closure 

[aren_117]

4 minutes ago, gglex6275 said:

What she remembers are the memories that JBH had while he was in her body, but bear in mind that she does not have his knowledge (politics, skills and over all experience). Remember that SB and CJ have their nightly ritual of story telling, so does this mean it does not happen after?

 

SY does not have memories of the future. So she will have nothing to say further about what interests CJ. He is interested in social science, remember as SB said, since he always looked forward to their nightly talks.

 

4 minutes ago, gglex6275 said:

What she remembers are the memories that JBH had while he was in her body, but bear in mind that she does not have his knowledge (politics, skills and over all experience). Remember that SB and CJ have their nightly ritual of story telling, so does this mean it does not happen after?

 

SY does not have memories of the future. So she will have nothing to say further about what interests CJ. He is interested in social science, remember as SB said, since he always looked forward to their nightly talks.

Remember that BH acquired Soyong's embroidery and music Skills after he woke up? What if it's the same with Soyong? I really believe that So Yong is not just a passive occupant of her body. I dunno. I'm just justifying everything now. Hahaha

2 minutes ago, xinyue99 said:

I would agree with you, BUT then I remember there was a scene where SY soul (?) drowned to the bottom of the lake. so what was the point of that scene ?

 

I am not against SY-CJ ending, but they just don’t give us proper closure 

I remember this but I admit that I did not watch this episode that much. Maybe it means another thing? I dunno

[kimchimandu]

15 minutes ago, aren_117 said:

I really think that Bong Hwan came to love Cheoljong because of Soyong. Without her, he would've felt nothing for CJ. His feelings drastically changed after he/she was in a vegetative state. So I think that after that time, Sobong may felt and thought that he was Bong Hwan but in reality, it was both of them combined. Kind of like a fusion like in dragon ball. Hahaha like goten and trunks something like that hahahhaha so I felt like Soyong still has a part in everything. She did not freeload from Bong Hwan because she is still there. Just as Bong Hwan felt like he is Soyong sometimes, Soyong also felt the same way. That's my theory though. 

 

Forgive me if I'm wrong - but I recall that the turning point was because Sobong saved Hwajin and CJ. That episode stirred something within CJ- he softened up his stance ever since then. He visited her in her chamber, gifted her a book and the wild orchid.

6 minutes ago, xinyue99 said:

I would agree with you, BUT then I remember there was a scene where SY soul (?) drowned to the bottom of the lake. so what was the point of that scene ?

 

I am not against SY-CJ ending, but they just don’t give us proper closure 

 

Exactly!

 

Sobong dove into the lake to "absorb" Soyong's memories. Absolutely unnecessary if Soyong is sharing the same body, soul and mind don't you think.

[gglex6275]

1 minute ago, aren_117 said:

 

Remember that BH acquired Soyong's embroidery and music Skills after he woke up? What if it's the same with Soyong? I really believe that So Yong is not just a passive occupant of her body. I dunno. I'm just justifying everything now. Hahaha

Its called muscle memory I think, once learned cannot be unlearned like riding a bike, you forget for a bit but then its there.  The cooking skills were all JBH/SB, the excellent people skills were all him too. His personality is the one the shone through, but the feminine side were all but mere shadows or wisps of recollection. But then, I am not so sure what kind of take would the writers have. 

 

The spin offs were to justify the road the story ended, I guess.

 

For me it would have been a better ending, if SY soul had left and eventually met up with BI soul, one who loved her honestly and protected her without conditions. I guess, I wanted a better end for BI as well as justification for his sacrifice.

[LRM11219311]

For me, BH and SY were fated to merged into SY’s body to change each other’s life. I don’t think SY leaves her body, i think she just let BH did all the job for the both of them. Of course, she helped BH too by letting her memories comeback when BH needs it. i can see that BH was very happy he returned to his own body, and also show happy tears for SY and especially for CJ’s successful plan. SY still have the SB memories, she just react to it as per her original gentle self not the boyish kind of way like SB. I am very much happy with the ending. Plus the spin off helped me to understand that CJ have strong feeling towards SY before too. 

[aren_117]

1 minute ago, kimchimandu said:

 

Forgive me if I'm wrong - but I recall that the turning point was because Sobong saved Hwajin and CJ. That episode stirred something within CJ- he softened up his stance ever since then. He visited her in her chamber, gifted her a book and the wild orchid.

I was talking about SoBong's feelings not CJ. Cause before the vegetative state, I really don't feel any chemistry between Bong Hwan and CJ. I felt like Bong Hwan doesn't really like the King in that way and never will because he's straight. He started to feel something for the King after acquiring Soyong's memories and identity. When he woke up from being in a vegetative state

[kara_mella]

2 minutes ago, shimshimae said:

I want to respectfully disagree chingu, I'm still so emotionally distressed about the ending - why did they show SY going down the lake in ep 13? Wasn't that like a symbolic departure of SY? I don't find the ending emotionally satisfying 

No, he wanted to understand why she was so afraid and decided to end her own life - that's the turning point when he decided to help her - not to let her disappear - as she was still there, he would live too. If she had died, he couldn't have lived in her body, because he is not from those time.

 

 'in ancient times, people made a distinction between soul and spirit, but that in modern times we have forgotten the difference. In a nutshell, spirit is a sort of spark or particle of consciousness or life, whereas soul is some sort of psychic capacitor which accumulates one’s thoughts and life experiences, good and bad.'

 

“Consciousness is a duality. It is the seemingly paradoxical ability of being able to experience sensation and, at the same time, of being able to experience oneself experiencing that sensation.'

 

Peter Novak’s descriptions of soul and spirit

SOUL    Subjective, dependent, fertile, emotional, nonverbal, recessive, passive, responsive, in possession and control of the memory. Emphasizes unity with the external.

SPIRIT    Objective, independent, logical, verbal, dominant, active, possessing independent free will. Emphasizes distinction and separateness from the external.

 

So her soul was there, here spirit was somehow irresponsive - 

 

'according to some ancient belief systems, if a person’s soul and spirit remained “attached” after death, then that person’s consciousness would survive death. Otherwise, that person’s consciousness would be lost forever.'

 

I 'm out for a stage play - see y'all!!

 

[Winny]

De-lurking...

 

I was expecting a sweet kiss from CJ and SY(wish it was SB) after the sweet hug....

Like many of you, i was disappointed when SY return just like that... felt heartbroken for CJ when he looked at the SB dictionary he made... 

I need to rewatch it with subs to understand writer-nims ending...

 

Despite the ending, i enjoyed the drama, it brought the much needed laughter to a stressed filled life. Looking forward to more dramas from SHS, KJH and all the casts.

[enzek]

I don't understand why is it so hard to make Bong Hwan as the future reincarnation of So Yong?

I believe many local audience won't be angry if the screenwriters dare to make it like that.

So Bong even mentioned about the reincarnation theory with Dam Hyang in the past episode.

Come on screenwriters!

 

Ughh my heart

credit to the owner

 

So this is happy ending huh

credit to the owner

 

It's always the one at the future that suffers

credit to the owner

[ponderings]

On a lighter note, I love how Bong hwan always runs once he wakes up. 

 

 

 

I am pretty sure the super fetus survived because of Bong hwan's spirit. lol 

 

[aren_117]

4 minutes ago, enzek said:

I don't understand why is it so hard to make Bong Hwan as the future reincarnation of So Yong?

I believe many local audience won't be angry if the screenwriters dare to make it like that.

So Bong even mentioned about the reincarnation theory with Dam Hyang in the past episode.

Come on screenwriters!

 

Ughh my heart

credit to the owner

 

So this is happy ending huh

credit to the owner

 

It's always the one at the future that suffers

credit to the owner

Exactly my sentiments. Sighhhhhhh

Edited February 14, 2021 by Jillia
Please do not quote pics! Thanks!

[Ameera Ali]

~ What you looking at 

 

 

Me : don’t tell me twice 

 

[briseis]

In my 15 years of watching kdramas I’ve seen some terrible endings but  Mr. Queen has perhaps the worst and most unsatisfynig ending in the history of kdramaland. The series has been well-written and stellar throughout most of its run, developing its love story and characters well, but the final episode has ruined all of that which is even a bigger pity because the acting was sublime.

So Yong hasn’t been present aka being in charge of her body’s actions and reactions for 99% of the story. It’s been all Bong Hwan. Cheoljong didn’t fall in love with So Yong but Bong Hwan in her body. He literally admitted this to BH. That it was his temper, his character traits, including the bad ones, that made him fall in love with Bong Hwan in an epic love confession. Not once did he mention about her body, her beauty or her zither playing skills. So Yong “fell in love” with Cheoljong because of one meeting in their childhood and her father’s wishes that she should become a queen. 

What I really appreciated about Mr. Queen was how they basically said “screw the whole childhood love/love at first sight/first love trope” even with Hwa Jin and Cheoljong when he admitted that he liked her not because of the childhood meeting but because she became his friend later so it wasn’t a case of mistaken identities that developed his feelings for her. Thus, the only reason why Cheoljong could have had feelings for the real So Yong disappears. The fact that So Yong and Cheoljong have their happy ending in the very same place where he confessed his love for Bong Hwan is adding an insult to the injury.

Spoiler

The final episode has ruined all of that development. BH accused Byeong In that he didn’t recognize that the Queen was no longer the So Yong he knew despite the fact that he claimed he loved her that much. So what about Cheoljong now? Wouldn’t it be illogical and hypocratical not to expect the same from him - that he should recognize that the Queen is no longer the same person? Even if for some reason (read: lazy writing and trying to having the cake and eating it too) So Yong adopted BH’s mannerism, there should still be major differences.

Spoiler

 

What about Bong Hwan and the trauma he is going to get after this? Previously, he used to be a person who couldn’t commit, who didn’t love anyone nor cared about anyone but himself. He fell in love with Cheoljong so much that he was willing to risk his life and sacrifice everything even though he knew that history had CJ as the losing side. So losing that sort of connection after accepting his feelings, himself in female body and building a new life in the Joseon Era with a new family consisting of his friends and Cheoljong will most likely be devastating. Furthermore, he was expecting a child, a child he grew to love and that was also ripped away from him.

So Yong commited suicide from her own will, she tried to escape her life and given up on herself, even though her circumstances were tragic,now she suddenly gains everything she ever wanted while Bong Hwan is left with nothing except for his job.What's the point of such plot?

 

In the end, such an ending is an utter narrative disaster and problematic in all sort of ways and that’s coming from me who rarely calls something problematic because nowadays the word “problematic” has become a synonym for what are basically normal and natural human flaws and imperfections. Overall, Mr. Queen was poised to become amazing but ended up an epic failure for the ages because of the final episode.

[zzang phoenix]

31 minutes ago, xinyue99 said:

I would agree with you, BUT then I remember there was a scene where SY soul (?) drowned to the bottom of the lake. so what was the point of that scene ?

 

I am not against SY-CJ ending, but they just don’t give us proper closure 

Drowned to the bottom means she fell into the subconscious, as Soyong said in Ep 20, the one called her back from the subconscious is her brother, Kim Byeong In.