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[Drama 2018] My Mister, 나의 아저씨 - Best Drama at 2019 (55th) BaekSang Arts Awards


Go Seung Ji

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15 minutes ago, the_sweetroad said:

 

Thank you so much for bringing this book to my attention! I'd never heard of it before, and I got it this weekend and read it twice! I loved it! :wub:

 

Have you read it?

 

There were some similar themes with My Mister - an orphan girl, themes of belonging, a "wiretapping" dynamic where one person knows way more about the other person than the other person realizes, and an age gap :) .

 

I have only watched the animation. :sweatingbullets:
I think its animation is interesting. :rickroll:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Daddy_Long_Legs

 

15 minutes ago, the_sweetroad said:

It also reminded me of a more recent book I've read called "Dear Mr Knightley" https://www.amazon.com/Dear-Mr-Knightley-Katherine-Reay/dp/140168968X.

 

The plot is quite similar and I see now that one of the featured reviews says it's a modern retelling of "Daddy Long Legs." Fun!

 

Thanks for the book recommendation.

I'm ready to add another book to my bookshelf. :rubchin:

 

15 minutes ago, the_sweetroad said:

I realized I need to eat some of my words. :P

 

Emma (Jane Austen) and Little Dorrit (Charles Dickens) are two of my favorite books, and they both have age-gap romances. Sense and Sensibility (Austen) has one as well, but I'm not as enamored by that couple (Colonel Brandon and Marianne) as I am with the main couple, Edward and Elinor.

 

However...among all of these stories the age gap between Dong Hoon and Ji An is still the largest. (Emma's gap is 16 years, Little Dorrit - 18 years, S and S - 18 or 19 years). I don't know why, but a 24-year age gap still seems pretty significant! But for DH and JA, they make sense so I can imagine that somewhere out there, they are happy together.

 

I'm sure there's a big difference between Dong-hoon and Ji-an's ages...
30000-45=29955!!!! :1646639759_ezgif.com-gif-maker(1):  :1646639759_ezgif.com-gif-maker(1):  :1646639759_ezgif.com-gif-maker(1):

 

I think the reason why we think Dong-hoon and Ji-an are suitable is that Ji-an is more mature mentally than people of her age. So maybe this issue is based on mind, maybe not age. :rubchin:

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On 5/14/2022 at 4:35 PM, actionscript said:

So even the van was in high-sync with DH! Sleepy but awakens once next to a pretty girl. :lol:

 

Yes! In fact, during this last re-watch, I noticed that Yoon Hee says this in Ep 7 when Ji Seok calls to ask Dong Hoon to showcase his special talent:

 

YH: "Appa's special talent?"

 

spacer.png

 

So PHY planted this seed, along with others, earlier than Ep 12 to characterize DH as sleepy. Like in Ep 10, DH says "every cell has woken up" in his body - as I think @YukawaCattle just mentioned recently.

 

(As an aside, Enneagram Nines use "numbing" techniques and can be characterized as needing to "wake up" to life :) )

 

On 5/14/2022 at 4:35 PM, actionscript said:

"The interest of My Ajussi lies also in the fact that the TU-C (Tie Up Cycle) works in favor of the formation of a possible new couple in a context where there seemed to be not the slightest possibility for this to happen."

 

Nice! I really do appreciate this about the show - it's not like either JA or DH were looking for romantic love; they both had many other things to worry about. It's not like My Liberation Notes, where all 3 of the siblings are actively looking for love. Plus DH was married, anyway. So this statement above nails it.

 

On 5/14/2022 at 4:35 PM, actionscript said:

Thanks for sharing! It was a good read. Nothing was discussed that wasn’t touched on before in this forum or in GMS, but they used a more academic framework (The Tie-Up Theory) in analyzing DH and JA’s interactions and relationship.

 

THANK YOU soo much for reading this article and parsing it out in laymen's terms for us!! I started reading it but I usually completely glaze over in the face of academic papers, because they say in 1000 words what they could have said in 300. Haha. Your bullet points were accessible and clear.

 

On 5/14/2022 at 4:35 PM, actionscript said:

-          The hugye gang are very welcoming of women. They welcomed Yura, Jung Hee, SH’s wife, and JA. So it was really YH who just didn’t want to be part of that group.

 

Yes! She excluded herself. They were always there to offer community and friendship, but she looked down on them and hated them.

 

I do wish more of the ahjussi's wives would have gone to the bar more regularly, though. Their lifestyle seemed like it would be hard on their marriages. (Or maybe their wives were glad to get them out of the house every evening :D. But as the police said, the wives weren't happy their husbands were drinking and driving.)

 

On 5/14/2022 at 4:35 PM, actionscript said:

-          Once someone from the opposite sex catches our interest, our subconscious immediately assesses for compatibility based on psycho-emotional and sexual aspects. The paper focused on how DH and JA did that to each other – when the test was initiated in their subconscious, and at what moments each have passed.

 

-          DH passed JA’s psycho-emotional test when she heard him confront the building owner, and it consequently opened up the sexual aspect for testing – “kicking off the Biological Compatibility Test to be carried out through the only sensory channel available to Lee Ji An in that situation: hearing.”

The paper actually mentioned that DH actively blocked that biological test from JA, by avoiding any form of physical contact with her, but JA still got through primarily through listening to him, “a constant source of ‘physical’ contact that ends up creating a deep TU on her side.”

 

Very insightful!!

 

What does the article say about when JA passes DH's test psycho-emotional test, then? If he blocks the biological test from her by his avoidance...at what moment does she pass his PE test? Or you can point us to the relevant passage in the article and I'll try to wade through it. :lol:

 

On 5/14/2022 at 4:35 PM, actionscript said:

To become a different person,

the one she should have been from the outset, at this point Lee Ji An needs, and must, walk

alone toward the new life awaiting her. This is why Park Dong Hoon makes a step back and

aside. Had he accommodated his physical attraction toward her, she wouldn’t have wanted

to leave anymore.”

 

This echoes what Stephan says in Man v Drama, that he thinks the final hug makes JA waver and possibly want to stay. I'm still not sure I see that (JA wavering), but it is interesting. If DH had given more hints that he wanted her to stay, or if he had been selfish and "accommodated his physical attraction toward her" I think the researchers are right, she most likely wouldn't have left.

 

The truth is that DH really didn't have anywhere to "place" JA in his Hugye life - she was still very young, probably too young to always be hanging out with a bunch of middle-aged people and not having a way of making other friends her age (especially without a job). And he was still married, so he technically shouldn't be spending more and more time with her.

 

On 5/14/2022 at 4:35 PM, actionscript said:

“When he turns around and sees her, he stands up and his surprised, emotional smile,

his radiant face, his overall bright aspect confirm that his M-TU has survived and resisted

to all changes, to distance and time.

 

Yay! :gangnamstyle:

 

On 5/14/2022 at 4:35 PM, actionscript said:

The drama closes with a promise, with the reciprocal desire to meet again.

Neither of them is any longer the gloomy, depressed person they both once were, and Lee

Ji An, with her “I’ll buy you a meal” has clearly signaled her intention to restart their TU-C

on new grounds.”

 

Beautifully written. Thanks for sharing all of this!!

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On 5/15/2022 at 4:40 AM, YukawaCattle said:

In Robert McKee's book "STORY: Substance, Structure, Style, and the Principles of Screenwriting," the definitions of the closed ending and the open ending he gives are as follows, respectively:

 

- A Story Climax of absolute, irreversible change that answers all questions raised by the telling and satisfies all audience emotion is a CLOSED ENDING. 

 

- A Story Climax that leaves a question or two unanswered and some emotion unfulfilled is an OPEN ENDING.

 

I can't find it now, but someone said over at the FGV that technically MM is an open ending, since the show doesn't show them definitively, conclusively getting together at the end. The "will they? won't they?" dynamic is strong at the end, which we all know has led to so much debate these past 3 - 4 years. Everyone has an opinion, but the show doesn't show us without a doubt, explicitly, that DH and JA are, or will be romantically together. So the commenter says technically it is an open ending.

 

And according to the definition above, where a closed ending "satisfies all audience emotion" - well, I think we can all say that MM is not really all that satisfying at the end! :lol: DH never explicitly says he loves JA, therefore many people have thought he just has mentor-ly or fatherly feelings for her at the end. Whatever the intention of the show, the actual result is that it left some things open for interpretation, and this has been pretty dissatisfying for those who do see a loveline between DH and JA. The show doesn't actually explicitly tell non-shippers that they're wrong.

 

As you say, @YukawaCattle, we need to look at the clues and the subtle ways DH expresses himself - or restrains himself - and also look at the other lovelines like KH and YR. We also look at the obstacles being removed as @actionscript says.

 

In that way we can deduce that DH loves JA and that the narrative thrust points to them being together at the end. However, because the show doesn't conclusively tell us, once and for all, that DH is divorced and that DH loves JA romantically, there's still room for those who interpret the ending differently.

 

So I think the result is that the show has an open ending, even if KWS and PHY had every intention of showing us DH and JA's love for each other and packing the show with clues. But most shows and films with closed endings don't need to rely on the audience picking up on so many clues, since they just show things explicitly or have their characters say I love you.

 

And I'm rehashing what we've talked about before, but most people will only watch MM once, so unfortunately without the DH/JA loveline being very clear the first time around, many will still walk away thinking DH and JA are just friends who are happy to see each other again.

 

That's why I think the de facto result is that the show has an open ending, since too many people walk away thinking something different than what we see the show has pointed to all along, which is a DH/JA reunion that leads to their love finding expression, finally.

 

Perhaps the best thing is just to think of it as @actionscript says, that MM is a prequel to all of that. In that case, MM would be an open ending, taking us to the point where DH and JA could get started, but they don't explicitly show it.

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I would like to organize the scripts that appear in MM.

 

- Yu-ra's movie is a short description of Ji-an's story in MM and tells the audience that the love is beginning.

 

- Sang-hoon's script is a metaphor for "What if Park Dong-hoon didn't meet Lee Ji-an...?"

 

- And Ki-hoon's script is to tell the audience that Park Dong-hoon and Lee Ji-an will end up together and start a new relationship.

 

Especially, I think Ki-hoon's script is most important to us, so I want to mention something here again.

(Thanks, UnlikelyCouple1970.)

 

 

w3E7pRoim-0pERdqSm1i2bkmnaSTeOUCi5zEgftD 

 

- Content -

"HUGYE HILL NOT NOTTING HILL"

SCENE 1: A CRAZY B*****H ENTERED MY LIFE.

 

 

1. What Ki-hoon is writing about is a romantic comedy because Notting hill is a romantic comedy movie that premiered in 1999, star by Julia Roberts.

 

2. The title of the script means: "The romantic comedy that happens in Hugye Hill, not in Notting Hill." So Dong-hoon and Ji-an will play a romance comedy.

 

3. Dong-hoon and Ji-an's love story already start in the MM's last ten minutes because the last ten minutes is the first act of Ki-hoon's script.

 

4. So we can understand that after the ending shot, there will be a second act and third act, and other acts of Dong-hoon and Ji-an's love story because the first act has already started.

 

5. Why we can be very sure that Dong-hoon and Ji-an will end up together, will start a new relationship, is because the ending of romantic comedy is always like this: "The lovers will finally be united. A fairy-tale-style happy ending is a typical feature." Especially, Notting Hill ends up with the male lead and female lead together, then so does Ki-hoon's script. So Dong-hoon and Ji-an will end up together.

 

-

 

So KWS and PHY already use the movie categories tell us that Dong-hoon and Ji-an will end up together.

 

 

Then since Park Dong-hoon and Lee Ji-an will end up together, then, of course, Park Dong-hoon loves Lee Ji-an and he is already divorced.

 

-

 

There are still two stories in MM that are described by Sang-hoon.

I think @actionscript already mentioned EP1's ending story. After the ending, there is still a Sang-hoon's story. He says he wants to build up a village where all people are Ahjussi who don't have a girlfriend or wife.

And the other Sang-hoon's story shows up in EP15. Sang-hoon tells Ki-hoon that he will give the Park brothers a nice three days and two nights travel.

 

And I think because we can observe from EP1 Sang-hoon's script that understanding what Sang-hoon says will always become the opposite in reality (EP1 Sang-hoon's script is "without a woman," that is, Lee Ji-an does not show up in MM). So maybe, yes, Sang-hoon's story that shows up after EP1's ending is telling us that "the Park brothers end up will all have girlfriend or wife." And maybe EP15 Sang-hoon's story is a metaphor for BA's funeral, just like what the Korean shipper says.

 

- Finally, all these scripts or stories have a name: "Story within a story."

This is a method for the screenwriter that is used to metaphor the story's development.

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3 hours ago, the_sweetroad said:

I can't find it now, but someone said over at the FGV that technically MM is an open ending, since the show doesn't show them definitively, conclusively getting together at the end. The "will they? won't they?" dynamic is strong at the end, which we all know has led to so much debate these past 3 - 4 years. Everyone has an opinion, but the show doesn't show us without a doubt, explicitly, that DH and JA are, or will be romantically together. So the commenter says technically it is an open ending.

 

And according to the definition above, where a closed ending "satisfies all audience emotion" - well, I think we can all say that MM is not really all that satisfying at the end! :lol: DH never explicitly says he loves JA, therefore many people have thought he just has mentor-ly or fatherly feelings for her at the end. Whatever the intention of the show, the actual result is that it left some things open for interpretation, and this has been pretty dissatisfying for those who do see a loveline between DH and JA. The show doesn't actually explicitly tell non-shippers that they're wrong.

 

As you say, @YukawaCattle, we need to look at the clues and the subtle ways DH expresses himself - or restrains himself - and also look at the other lovelines like KH and YR. We also look at the obstacles being removed as @actionscript says.

 

In that way we can deduce that DH loves JA and that the narrative thrust points to them being together at the end. However, because the show doesn't conclusively tell us, once and for all, that DH is divorced and that DH loves JA romantically, there's still room for those who interpret the ending differently.

 

So I think the result is that the show has an open ending, even if KWS and PHY had every intention of showing us DH and JA's love for each other and packing the show with clues. But most shows and films with closed endings don't need to rely on the audience picking up on so many clues, since they just show things explicitly or have their characters say I love you.

 

And I'm rehashing what we've talked about before, but most people will only watch MM once, so unfortunately without the DH/JA loveline being very clear the first time around, many will still walk away thinking DH and JA are just friends who are happy to see each other again.

 

That's why I think the de facto result is that the show has an open ending, since too many people walk away thinking something different than what we see the show has pointed to all along, which is a DH/JA reunion that leads to their love finding expression, finally.

 

Perhaps the best thing is just to think of it as @actionscript says, that MM is a prequel to all of that. In that case, MM would be an open ending, taking us to the point where DH and JA could get started, but they don't explicitly show it.

 

Thanks for the answer. :star:

The reason why I think MM is a closed ending has been listed above.

 

 

KWS and PHY already use Ki-hoon's script to tell us that Dong-hoon and Ji-an will end up together.

 

Then since Park Dong-hoon and Lee Ji-an will end up together, then, of course, he loves Lee Ji-an and is already divorced.

 

 

Then KWS and PHY already give an irreversible change that answers all questions raised by the telling and satisfies all audience(me) emotion.

So for me, MM is a closed ending.

 

That's why I said, "If people admit the clues, then MM will become a closed ending. If people can't admit the clues, then MM is an open ending to them."

 

Because the definition given by Robert McKee depends on the audience's personal feelings.

MM can be open and closed ending at the same time because this matter is only up to the audience's personal feelings.

 

(I think I didn't misunderstand his definition...? What I get is it is only depends on yourself.) :rubchin:

 

So, for example, even if there is a man who tells me that he thinks MM is an open ending, because I admit the clues and these clues already satisfy me, MM is a closed ending for me, an open ending to him.

 

I think many shippers will admit the clues, so MM can be a closed ending story.

If not, at least for me, it is a closed ending because I think theoretically, clues should be counted in.

Because no matter what others say, my feelings are my feelings, and they are not something that others can interfere with.

 

It is impossible to require others that "clues can not be counted in." 
After all, everyone's understanding is not the same.

Maybe some people understand at first glance, but some people take a long time and still can not see.

And that's what I find interesting about this issue.
Because everyone's judgment criteria are different, MM has a selective ending. (According to Robert McKee's definition.)

 

By the way, I personally think that to say that the open ending, MM and Ryūnosuke Akutagawa's In a Grove is really far from.
MM is not that open when compared to it (?)

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Ah.
I forget to say.
Why I said theoretically MM should be closed ending because under the situation we consider the clues, KWS and PHY give more information to us.


For both kinds of ending, yes, they both give "Beer" and "Photos," but the clues they give us more. (Like Ki-hoon's script.)

What I mean is that MM is inherently designed to be pro-shippers.

So under the situation that we consider the clues, inherently, MM should be (shipper's) closed ending because we have more information.

(Especially, story within a story is a very widely recognized technique of metaphor, so I personally think that at least stories and scripts that show up in MM should count.)

 

But actually, there are some people who don't use clues but still can directly think that "Park Dong-hoon loves Lee Ji-an, Park Dong-hoon already divorced, and he will start a new relationship with Lee Ji-an."
And also, there are some people who don't use clues and get the opposite understanding.

For these two kinds of people, MM is also a closed ending for them, right?
Because their emotion have already been satisfied.

 

(I know there are other kinds of understanding, but generally speaking are these two kinds of situations.)

 

And generally speaking, I think it is only shippers' emotions that have not been satisfied.
Some people who don't care about Park Dong-hoon's affections have already been satisfied with the ending.

(That's why we are here......?)

 

So MM seems to be a "optional ending." :rubchin:

 

(Can MM's ending really be categorized as any type? :rubchin: )

 

---

 

By the way, I always think if we look from the point of view of literary criticism (use "The Death of the Author"), I think "Park Dong-hoon loves Lee Ji-an, and already divorced in the end" can be a truth because we have the script skeleton of the Park brothers.

(Use Ki-hoon's script to understand Dong-hoon loves Ji-an. Use Sang-hoon's script to understand Dong-hoon's divorce.)


When making the interpretation, I guess people who understand literary criticism will consider this kind of evidence because this thing very clearly appears in the script—— it is just the skeleton of the script, not other kinds of clues.
I guess they can not skip this consideration because the skeleton is already fixed. :rubchin:

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I feel bad about posting continuously, but if no one else posts, then I only have to continuously post. :sweatingbullets:

(Sorry about this. :sweatingbullets:)

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I want to share some cases of story within a story that shows up in K-drama here with you guys to show that such a metaphor technique is not only used in MM but also frequently shows up in other dramas. That is, this thing actually is common sense in drama, not a new thing in MM.

 

*Notice that this post has Spoiler of Squid Game, Crash Landing on You, and Business Proposal.

 

Spoiler

[Story within a story— Case 1: Squid Game]

 

Squid Game uses a story within a story in EP1.

The director has already used the result of the horseracing in EP1 to tell the audience who will win squid game in the end. And it also tells the audience about the whole process.

 

ICJB4XZEf2xQLtR5y9mrMt4bXY02LEJcPUVGvUTQ 

 

Horseracing Broadcast:" No. 9 Baekil Legend is placed right in the middle. No. 6 Thunderflash is quickly catching up to the frontrunners. But the gap is still wide. They're heading into the curve again. No. 7 Golden Bullet and No. 8 Mad Dash. They're going full speed. But, wait! Wrapping around the outside… It's No. 6 Thunderflash! And he continues to gain ground. The gap is closing! No. 6 has now taken second place. And he's not stopping there. He's taken the lead! No. 6 Thunderflash brings it home!"

 

(Seong Gi-hun: #456/Cho Sang-woo: #218/Kang Sae-byeok: #67/Ali Abdul: #199) 

 

 

-clip-

 

 

 

And the director Hwang Dong-hyuk also gave Lee Byung-hun a line in EP9 and suggested you go back to notice this thing:

 

l6xxUnEiN2BK8ee08svryPLLmdcgSdRiP0eiMQ7H 

 

"You like horseracing, right? You people are horses. Horses at a racetrack. It was unexpected. I didn't think you'd run this far."

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Story within a story— Case 2: Crash Landing on You]

 

In EP1 of Crash Landing on You, the lines of the K-drama that Kim Ju-meok watches (called Stairway to Heaven) have already metaphor the end of the male lead and female lead will end up together.

 

 

UZztiM8AqP60lSOAv9MamjJaPQb5rB6B4PdnmQL8 

 

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"People in love are meant to meet. No matter how far you travel, in the end, you will come back."

 

 

And this line shows up in EP13 again.

 

 

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DSP73qC9WkP8AIJZKqPcv1UCacmjxKjwueWWumyy 

 

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rJalNp0QpOSGFUFsZsNvbvAolWZo7b8XcA-bJfOa 

 

 

--> The male lead and female lead end up together for two weeks per year in Switzerland.

 

9vJGgb7qExZboO3njoVdzNd8VvEH7iqTvBrqLKaS 

 

 

In EP12, Kim Ju-meok goes to the internet cafe to watch a play (The Slave Hunters). The male lead of the play died, and the paragraph of this plot is used as a metaphor for the supporting male who will die in the end. (As for why, you guys can go to read the introduction of the character of The Slave Hunters.)

 

HQVMENSNHWeWHTHIEWi5WXCKkJA8sqxOK2IrGdfj 

 

1_4rK-OGZiWETKH3-IRiHPuVvuJ_IAJKrr2olpeR 

 

soDSqtSDlAFVu8jw0w1DTiGysFgfzoyNBtHyFgwW 

 

 

--> The supporting male died in EP16.

 

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yOuwxsLT0XVXyeg4R5u6ClQvyRAyvCBqpcgEMnJG 

 

tFUl0uYjdKJAG4YIp0iu3n_J_Es4hAJLSUtnyt1h 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Story within a story— Case 3: Business Proposal]

 

Business Proposal uses a lot of a story within a story to metaphor the development of the story of male lead and female lead.

 

 

EP1, the writer makes the TV drama shows up through the male lead's grandfather. He loves the show.

 

4KBdveO-L0CLekI8m7DdcBel6mrWCLx8U3_BMbiY 

 

 

EP2, the male lead's grandfather asks about the male lead's blind date(the blind date on the premise of marriage). Because the male lead is interested in the female lead, he doesn't want to follow his grandfather's idea. (Marry a woman from a wealthy family.)

 

TBlCSVavABmqHSiiY-Vq8AQYdL-MP2rd0hkD20fU 

 

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hCNqMHRzeFaW2JbifmI8TH-N7IG29nzaSXbu5l2Z 

 

Then the character in the TV drama spoke his mind.

 

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CXaAJyk9sOBucHsHF-va1sGrqlK6mwHTc1o17gfT 

 

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Note: The female lead's family operates a small fried chicken store.

 

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At the end of EP2, the male lead and female lead accidentally kissed.

 

NWrZh1KKWfCxSOwiNphCcQdyQR7X7Ro120lYgoKj 

 

 

Then in EP3, in the TV drama that the male lead's grandfather loves to watch, the male lead and female lead also have an accidentally kissed. And according to the male lead's grandfather's words, this scene means that the male lead and female lead in the TV drama will be together.

 

YskgZrDg3HXGeiOURwwq6uS6KCR8AAqjyx_SshOH 

 

This part is used to allude to the male lead's situation. (He falls in love with the female lead.)

 

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(The male lead does not want to admit the truth. LOL)

 

 

EP4, we see the male lead of the TV drama buying some clothes for the female lead.

 

4sgcV25mtTyBZ8XQNbRCo2n8CnszHZZUJowQ9Olc 

 

7AHuEVLpcByJZy4R6PIQdMlfa-i2tLaHdWuV6Zth 

 

 

Then in the later scene——

 

 

UbEHL93FuV-nGgybxqaNVDAdFYcVEtRKuGICQl9k 

 

gPAvxVyGS5VHo5aUz7JHAwD3Pa9EDwD7lagVm4zo 

 

The male lead buys clothes for the female lead.

 

---

 

One thing we have to notice is that in Business Proposal, the writer lets the female lead uses the name of the female lead of the TV drama, which shows that "they are equivalent."

 

GHbz366SMvy-d4vAwefNDfGkD2pJ6RjOFqXPF-YM 

 

cYBQRv2MDLuky62SZ7dPLYl48oa1h3N6WzRRLb69 

 

XddPraaAPOwpD6tmpU8rRmOfOcsN3cLfxGrSv_U9 

 

WPujiautfpCBdY8-g1wUiI3HiNvNbbFh54xIASA9 

 

Note: the female lead's name is Shin Ha-ri, and now she uses the name Shin Geum-hui to lie to the male lead. And Shin Geum-hui is the female lead's name in TV drama.

 

 

W_3j6DaUrwxygrFZ3NFEQB1Q-yVbb0kDJXwFrFZT

 

Please look at the TV drama that appears on the TV in this picture.

 

vWjZyoeYpUgpnvP6JtFZbJSe0JHAtXS17QVgF1MN

 

 

In the first picture, the director lets the female lead and the TV drama appear together.

It is used to symbolize that "Shin Ha-ri=Shin Geum-hui."

 

 

And this thing also happens in MM. 

The writer PHY also uses the same technique on Ji-an and Yu-ra.

 

The article YU RA'S MOVIE: JI AN'S LIFE IN 65 SECONDS already shows us that Yu-ra's movie character is used to allude to Ji-an. So PHY clearly tells the audience that "Yu-ra=Ji-an" through this movie.

 

And remember that after watching the movie, Ki-hoon goes home and starts to write the script.

 

 

- Ki-hoon goes to watch Yu-ra's movie.

 

ptaXri69htrrK1nKit2Pt928hx5_YyeiaN53VBdu 

 

u2Rjjl6-Do4zVnw19LFqm8cantqddqt88YdCG6Fw 

 

 

- Ki-hoon goes to Jung-hee's bar. Jung-hee tells him, "Yu-ra was here last night."

 

SlwwU54OXPOpPYXu_BdzRtk2LUw1mUfkLBlS4Uaz 

 

ZOhTkGlM7ET72Sc558tkUysjanHcgT51JCFBnjVR 

 

AhvdfBPGGXxiLzbPLWqZlHjrt9oLusrv0fUtOkwm 

 

 

- Ki-hoon started to write down the script:
"HUGYE HILL NOT NOTTING HILL. SCENE 1: A CRAZY B*****H ENTERED MY LIFE."

 

script_u87a2u5e55u5febu7167-2022-04-10-u 

 

w3E7pRoim-0pERdqSm1i2bkmnaSTeOUCi5zEgftD 

 

 

So, even if we all know that Ki-hoon is writing about he and Yu-ra's love story (no matter what, we know this is about the love story about Yu-ra because of Notting Hill), PHY already uses Yu-ra's movie to tell us that "Yu-ra=Ji-an," so of course, Ki-hoon's script is a metaphor of Ji-an and Dong-hoon's love story. And because Ki-hoon's script is a romantic comedy, Dong-hoon and Ji-an will end up together.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Conclusion: A story within a story is a part of the drama. It is just a kind of technique that is widely used as a metaphor for the development of the story. So, generally speaking, if we admit the function of Ki-hoon's script, MM will be a closed ending; If not, then MM is an open ending. This is because A Story within a story is a metaphor for something that will definitely happen later. We already see some cases here.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

And I put the concept graph of Ki-hoon's script here.

 

Xmxjj-XFdZabVP7jOtp7r1rujvdn8NvFklpEIS5s 

The time that shows up in the graph means the time that Ki-hoon's script start running in MM.

 

- The green line means Ki-hoon's script's running range.

 

- The orange line means the ending of EP16.

 

- The pink line means "the day Dong-hoon and Ji-an be together," which is the ending of Ki-hoon's script. But because it is out of MM's story and we don't know when but we know it will happen, so I draw it out of the coordinate.

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On 5/17/2022 at 7:03 PM, the_sweetroad said:

I started reading it but I usually completely glaze over in the face of academic papers, because they say in 1000 words what they could have said in 300. Haha.

 

Actually, the academic way of writing applies only to the first 8 pages. (Page numbers based on downloaded pdf file.) Page 9 up to the end (page 30) are no longer as academic. It’s just like reading posts here at Soompi or at other blog sites. Samples include the paragraphs I quoted in my previous post. I think it is best to start reading at the last paragraph of page 7 (just to brush up on the framework they are using), wade through page 8, and then after that you won’t experience the “academic feeling” at all. :sweatingbullets:

 

 

On 5/17/2022 at 7:03 PM, the_sweetroad said:

What does the article say about when JA passes DH's test psycho-emotional test, then? If he blocks the biological test from her by his avoidance...at what moment does she pass his PE test?

 

JA passed DH’s PE test on various occasions. But all these happened in the context of, and obviously due to, his weakened TU-C with his wife.

 

JA immediately caught his attention right in the lady bug scene in the seeming contrast that DH noticed – the most fragile-looking girl in the room seemed the most violent, when JA slapped and killed the ladybug.

 

The following moments also contributed to JA passing DH’s PE test:

-          When DH thought JA threw away the bribe money to save him

-          When DH found out and realized how JA is taking care of her granny. His “You’re a good person” is actually an indication of how he put forward a PE test in his subconscious which JA passed.

-          “The attraction he feels toward Lee Ji An moves from recognizing himself in the sorrow that the young woman has to endure.” It’s captured quite well when he said “I know someone who gets me. I think I get her, too.”

-          When DH found out why JA slapped Asst Manager Kim.

 

After all the above events, he started to crave for JA – looking at her direction in the office, looking forward to walking home with her, having drinks with her at the pub, etc.

 

And in the pub scenes with the hugye gang, DH is often caught thinking about JA:

-   When he told KH someone gets him

-   When he told JH there's a girl who is 30,000 years old

-   When he asked JH why is life so annoying (which happened when he was ignored by JA in front of the pub)

-   and so much more!

 

As the paper put it: “For Park Dong Hoon, these are small but highly craved treats that help him survive, distractions from his burden of anguish—they are, among other things, serotonin shots that ease up that anxious feeling to be on the verge of going crazy.”

 

And his Tie-up with JA is fully-formed when he confronted Kwang Il: “An instinct of protection, when it leads to self-sacrifice for the other, is a feeling that, if directed at an opposite-sex potential partner, goes hand in hand not

only with a more than ascertained compatibility, but with the possibility that a TU has already occurred.”

 

And we have already discussed how DH, after hearing Song Won’s advice to think about himself first, has started to become more assertive:

“From this moment on, his constant effort at self-repression makes way to a Park Dong Hoon who accepts to be furious, and who vents his frustration by punching anything within reach, from his house’s door to the company’s CEO who stole him both his wife and his career. Now, his TU to Lee Ji An becomes visible, as he, while riding his car together with his brother, by chance notices her looking at him at a crossroads, and finally feels his heart pounding.”

 

 

On 5/17/2022 at 10:38 PM, YukawaCattle said:

That's why I said, "If people admit the clues, then MM will become a closed ending. If people can't admit the clues, then MM is an open ending to them."

 

Because the definition given by Robert McKee depends on the audience's personal feelings.

MM can be open and closed ending at the same time because this matter is only up to the audience's personal feelings.

 

(I think I didn't misunderstand his definition...? What I get is it is only depends on yourself.) :rubchin:

 

It is impossible to require others that "clues can not be counted in." 
After all, everyone's understanding is not the same.

Maybe some people understand at first glance, but some people take a long time and still can not see.

And that's what I find interesting about this issue.
Because everyone's judgment criteria are different, MM has a selective ending. (According to Robert McKee's definition.)

 

Well, nothing is black and white, esp. when it comes to art as these TV dramas are. So it is natural that different people will always get something different from them regardless of the artist’s (the PDnim, the writer, etc.) intentions.

 

I’ll take CLOY again as an example. (CLOY spoilers ahead!)  While watching the show, the biggest question that came to my mind is given the political realities of the leads’ respective countries, and given their social standing in them, how can they realistically get together? And should marriage be in the picture, how can they pursue it while avoiding the dire consequences of their actions from their gov’t and their societies?

 

By the end of the show, were these questions answered in an emotionally satisfactory manner? For me, not really. What the show delivered is a half-baked ending at best. They did find a way to meet, but is their set-up sustainable for the relationship to flourish long term? The main questions I raised were not answered.

 

So does it mean CLOY has an open ending? I don’t know, but as I said, nothing is black and white when it comes to these things.

  

 

Now going back to MM, allow me to wear my character-drama hat for a while..

 

For those who see MM as a romance drama, then the ending might indeed seem open-ended. But for those that see MM as a character drama, I think the ending can be seen as a closed one. Because DH and JA being together is not the main point of the show, even if it implied that they will be together. From the character drama point of view, the fact that both JA and DH were able to heal and transform into better versions of themselves provides for an emotionally-satisfying ending to the story.

 

I think I already mentioned this before.. For non-romance dramas that have love lines in the story, even if the intention is to imply that the main lead will get the girl, the show will usually stop short of having romantic acts for an ending as it would look inconsistent to the show’s genre. An example I gave is The Game, which being a psychological thriller, also ended with the male lead and his love interest agreeing to meet for coffee. Was that an open ending? For me, definitely not. It is obviously implied that they will start to have romantic dates.

 

Another example that came to mind is The Truman Show (Jim Carrey). It is a satirical comedy drama and totally not a romance story, yet the last scene shows the girl love interest running to meet the male lead. Nothing more is shown but the intentions are clear and beyond doubt. Now should they show a hug or a kiss, that would introduce inconsistencies to the show’s tone and genre.

 

This makes me sometimes think that perhaps MM is a character drama, such that they don’t have to explicitly show that DH and JA would end up together, yet imply that is the case without doubt, just like in the case of The Game and The Truman Show.

 

So implying the leads will get together but not explicitly showing it apparently is a trope or technique used by non-romance shows to conclude the love lines in their story. But we have discussed how MM has utilized so many romance-drama elements and tropes, which once seen, would make it hard to see MM to be any other than a romance drama.

 

When it comes to art, it will always be different shades of gray to different people. :sweatingbullets:

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2 hours ago, actionscript said:

Well, nothing is black and white, esp. when it comes to art as these TV dramas are. So it is natural that different people will always get something different from them regardless of the artist’s (the PDnim, the writer, etc.) intentions.

 

I’ll take CLOY again as an example. (CLOY spoilers ahead!)  While watching the show, the biggest question that came to my mind is given the political realities of the leads’ respective countries, and given their social standing in them, how can they realistically get together? And should marriage be in the picture, how can they pursue it while avoiding the dire consequences of their actions from their gov’t and their societies?

 

By the end of the show, were these questions answered in an emotionally satisfactory manner? For me, not really. What the show delivered is a half-baked ending at best. They did find a way to meet, but is their set-up sustainable for the relationship to flourish long term? The main questions I raised were not answered.

 

So does it mean CLOY has an open ending? I don’t know, but as I said, nothing is black and white when it comes to these things.

  

 

Now going back to MM, allow me to wear my character-drama hat for a while..

 

For those who see MM as a romance drama, then the ending might indeed seem open-ended. But for those that see MM as a character drama, I think the ending can be seen as a closed one. Because DH and JA being together is not the main point of the show, even if it implied that they will be together. From the character drama point of view, the fact that both JA and DH were able to heal and transform into better versions of themselves provides for an emotionally-satisfying ending to the story.

 

I think I already mentioned this before.. For non-romance dramas that have love lines in the story, even if the intention is to imply that the main lead will get the girl, the show will usually stop short of having romantic acts for an ending as it would look inconsistent to the show’s genre. An example I gave is The Game, which being a psychological thriller, also ended with the male lead and his love interest agreeing to meet for coffee. Was that an open ending? For me, definitely not. It is obviously implied that they will start to have romantic dates.

 

Another example that came to mind is The Truman Show (Jim Carrey). It is a satirical comedy drama and totally not a romance story, yet the last scene shows the girl love interest running to meet the male lead. Nothing more is shown but the intentions are clear and beyond doubt. Now should they show a hug or a kiss, that would introduce inconsistencies to the show’s tone and genre.

 

This makes me sometimes think that perhaps MM is a character drama, such that they don’t have to explicitly show that DH and JA would end up together, yet imply that is the case without doubt, just like in the case of The Game and The Truman Show.

 

So implying the leads will get together but not explicitly showing it apparently is a trope or technique used by non-romance shows to conclude the love lines in their story. But we have discussed how MM has utilized so many romance-drama elements and tropes, which once seen, would make it hard to see MM to be any other than a romance drama.

 

When it comes to art, it will always be different shades of gray to different people. :sweatingbullets:

 

Thanks for the reply. :star:


Yes, for the people who don't care about loveline, their emotions have already been satisfied.

So for them, MM is a closed ending, maybe.

But obviously, we shipper didn't.

But is such a situation really means MM is an open ending for us?

I mean, even though it looks open when we watch MM for the first time, when we re-watch, we will find that this is not that open. 

The first time thinks it is open but later finds that it is not that open, so I think this situation can not easily be defined as an open ending.
Because it's just that people didn't notice the clues, but the clues already existed there at the beginning.

At least for me, I already see that KWS and PHY already use the technique of a story within a story to tell their audience that Dong-hoon and Ji-an will end up together. 
But this is in logic.
This is a logical present, so some people can not accept it because they need to see such a fact with both their eyes and hear it with both ears to be sure about this.
This is because everybody's thought is different.
But logically speaking, KWS and PHY already give this information: "Dong-hoon and Ji-an will end up together" through the technique of a story within a story.

And logic is enough for me, so MM is a closed ending for me.

Because KWS and PHY already present this fact for me.

 

So what I want to discuss here is not a closed ending or open ending issue, but "under such a situation(different people have a different point of view), what kind of MM's ending is? Is this kind of ending have a name for it?"

I am curious about it. :rubchin:

I'm curious about this because, in my mind, I think, "If people don't accept Ki-hoon's script, which is a story within a story, then people will think that MM is an open ending. But if they accept it, then MM is a closed ending."

I think a so-called "open ending" should be like the movie Inception or the novel In a Grove.

But MM's ending seems not like the ending of these two works for me.

MM's ending, at least for me, can have a clear and very sure answer, after all.

 

But about CLOY, I think people who see the reality of the male lead and female lead should feel that this drama is absolutely a closed ending. :sweatingbullets:

Did you still have any questions when seeing their wedding photos? :sweatingbullets:

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Original script of Yoon-hee's "Beer".

 

-

 

윤희:(!) …맥주. …안주는 집에 있는 거 먹자. …음. (전화를 끊고 표정)

Yoon-hee: (!) ...Beer... . But drunk food... just use our home's... ok... (Hanging up the phone, looking up)

 

-


So Dong-hoon didn't just buy beer for Yoon-hee that night, but they also had a conversation when drinking beer.

 

I post this just want to prove that they had a conversation that night. And apparently, they were drinking and talking at the same time.
The reason is that some people say, "Dong-hoon just bought beer and went home but without had a conversation with Yoon-hee." But the script already shows that they did talk. (They eat drunk food together.)

 

(I remember that this part was not yet being shared.)

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I think divorce is a sure thing.
The topic is not something that the audience can choose.


If the audience can choose the answer of divorce, it means that the scriptwriter and director give the audience the choice of MM's subsequent plot and values before the story structure is closed.
This means that MM's writers and directors are irresponsible because they leave it up to the audience to make choices without writing the full story.


Usually, the ending of an open ending story that you can choose on your own, I have checked, is based on the premise that the story structure is complete and closed to do so.
In such a situation where the story has already been told in its entirety, no matter which ending the audience chooses in the end, it will not affect the closed structure of the story and the presentation of values.
On this point, you guys can read the explanation of "Is a cliffhanger an open ending?" in the following link.

 

https://www.pursuantmedia.com/2021/05/03/why-do-movies-have-open-endings/

 

However, in MM, Park Dong-hoon's divorce or not will affect the presentation of values.
If he continues his marriage, it means that MM's presentation is "continuing to live in the expectations of others."
This is because, in EP12, Park Dong-hoon already shows that he actually wants to divorce.
We can see that he was just afraid of other people's thinking, so he felt hesitant.

On the other hand, if he divorces, MM is expressing, "follow your heart and be yourself."
These two are very different.

 

And if we could choose the divorce or not, it would obviously affect the structure of the story as well.
What I mean "affect the structure of the story" is, please imagine how we would feel if the story stops when Yoon-hee says "Beer"?
Or how do we feel when the story stops when Park Dong-hoon cries out?
We will feel that MM did not finish the story.
This means that by the time Park Dong-hoon cries, the story is still developing linearly and its structure is not yet closed.
But the fact that the story is over under the situation that the structure of the story is not yet closed does not mean that it is an open ending.

But it is called a bad ending.

The author did not write well.

 

So if the divorce ending could be chosen by us, just as the audience can freely choose the ending of an open ending story, the story would still have to be written in its entirety, just as the information I provided above says.
But it is clear that when Park Dong-hoon cried out, the structure of MM's story was not yet closed.

 

On this point, KWS's interview in the Blu-ray director's edition also verifies this:

 

KWS: "If you put a group photo of three people together (DH, YH, JS), won't it look too warm? That's very different from the outcome of the drama that has been going on here."

 

"That's very different from the outcome of the drama that has been going on here" this means that the story of MM is still a linear development up to this point, without a closed and complete structure.

 

So Yoon-hee must have had a definite reason for going to America.

The couple is either only separated or divorced, which has a definite answer in MM.

Because it's still a linear development up to this point, it's impossible for the writer and director to give the audience a choice in this matter. This means that divorce is not part of the open ending issue.
It has an answer.

What can be freely chosen is only possible if the story structure is closed, just as the above has been emphasized.
But as far as the director KWS's words are concerned, the structure of the story is not yet closed when Park Dong-hoon cries.

 

However, if Park Dong-hoon had not divorced, then this matter would have been in conflict with Ki-hoon's script.
Because Ki-hoon's script is a story within the story, it is a metaphor for the love story of Dong-hoon and Ji-an.
Its first act is already a part of the love story.
That is, when Dong-hoon and Ji-an meet at the cafe, they have already started their love story.
This means that MM's scriptwriter and director let Park Dong-hoon and Lee Ji-an start the first act of a love story under the situation that Park Dong-hoon is not yet divorced.
This is illogical.

 

Based on the above, Park Dong-hoon's divorce is confirmed.
His divorce or not is not a choice for the viewer.
He's already divorced, that's for sure.
The only thing that gives the audience a choice is whether or not Ji-an and Dong-hoon will be together.
Only this thing won't affect the structure of MM and MM's value.


And about this matter, I've already made my point.

I personally think the matter has been closed up with a story within a story and they will be together.

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On 5/19/2022 at 7:36 AM, actionscript said:

Actually, the academic way of writing applies only to the first 8 pages. (Page numbers based on downloaded pdf file.) Page 9 up to the end (page 30)

 

Page 30! I admire your patience! :) All right, I'll try it again when there's a moment.

 

On 5/19/2022 at 7:36 AM, actionscript said:

As the paper put it: “For Park Dong Hoon, these are small but highly craved treats that help him survive, distractions from his burden of anguish—they are, among other things, serotonin shots that ease up that anxious feeling to be on the verge of going crazy.”

 

And his Tie-up with JA is fully-formed when he confronted Kwang Il: “An instinct of protection, when it leads to self-sacrifice for the other, is a feeling that, if directed at an opposite-sex potential partner, goes hand in hand not

only with a more than ascertained compatibility, but with the possibility that a TU has already occurred.”

 

Thanks so much for listing out all these events where JA would have passed DH's PE test. Basically, many of their key scenes between Ep 2 - 9 served to tie them together.

 

One interesting thing that came to mind is that even when DH confronts Kwang Il, he still calls JA a "girl", i.e. "Why would you beat up a girl like that?"

 

However,

 

On 5/19/2022 at 7:36 AM, actionscript said:

Now, his TU to Lee Ji An becomes visible, as he, while riding his car together with his brother, by chance notices her looking at him at a crossroads, and finally feels his heart pounding.”

 

Whoa...we've talked about it before, the transformation from DH looking at JA as a girl to looking at her as a woman, and I love the way the paper puts it here :wub:.

 

On 5/17/2022 at 4:38 PM, YukawaCattle said:

That's why I said, "If people admit the clues, then MM will become a closed ending. If people can't admit the clues, then MM is an open ending to them."

 

Because the definition given by Robert McKee depends on the audience's personal feelings.

MM can be open and closed ending at the same time because this matter is only up to the audience's personal feelings.

 

(I think I didn't misunderstand his definition...? What I get is it is only depends on yourself.)

 

Interesting discussion and sorry to get back to it so late.

 

I'm not too sure about this, that it only depends on yourself... I'm not sure if the audience is the first point of reference, or only point of reference. The way I read Robert McKee's definition, we have to factor in KWS and PHY's intentions and the questions they raise and the answers they give.

 

What questions did they raise in the story? And what answers did they give? (This could be a whole other rabbit trail.) As far as the question - do DH and JA love each other and will they pursue a romantic relationship?, the answers are in the clues they've packed into the story, like we know.  But they knew that half the audience wouldn't pick up on those clues; KWS and PHY were sly and coy. They could have been very explicit and told everyone that the shippers were right and the non-shippers were wrong. That's why to me, based on RMcK's definition, it's still an open ending. Too much is left open to interpretation at the end, and that's the way KWS and PHY deliberately designed it. (Otherwise they could have just had people say very clearly what was up, or like in Notting Hill, shown a pregnant Julia Roberts resting on a bench with Hugh Grant. Now there is a closed ending, conclusively shown).

 

However...

 

On 5/19/2022 at 7:36 AM, actionscript said:

Now going back to MM, allow me to wear my character-drama hat for a while..

 

For those who see MM as a romance drama, then the ending might indeed seem open-ended. But for those that see MM as a character drama, I think the ending can be seen as a closed one. Because DH and JA being together is not the main point of the show, even if it implied that they will be together. From the character drama point of view, the fact that both JA and DH were able to heal and transform into better versions of themselves provides for an emotionally-satisfying ending to the story.

 

I think I already mentioned this before.. For non-romance dramas that have love lines in the story, even if the intention is to imply that the main lead will get the girl, the show will usually stop short of having romantic acts for an ending as it would look inconsistent to the show’s genre. An example I gave is The Game, which being a psychological thriller, also ended with the male lead and his love interest agreeing to meet for coffee. Was that an open ending? For me, definitely not. It is obviously implied that they will start to have romantic dates.

 

Good points! We've discussed MM's genre before, and once again KWS and PHY were a bit coy. I think that factors into this conversation as well.

 

On 5/19/2022 at 9:22 AM, YukawaCattle said:

So what I want to discuss here is not a closed ending or open ending issue, but "under such a situation(different people have a different point of view), what kind of MM's ending is? Is this kind of ending have a name for it?"

 

Should we just call it "a beautiful ending" then? :lol:

 

I think KWS and PHY definitely wanted to make a healing drama (explicitly), and definitely wanted to show that DH and JA loved each other (explicitly in some ways) but ended up keeping their actual romantic love subtle. Probably due to initial audience backlash, unfortunately.

 

So I agree with @actionscript - we can look at it from a lot of different angles because it's not black and white. Some might call it an "ambiguous ending" when it comes to DH and JA and what will happen between them. For me, because I really, REALLY wish they had explicitly put our doubts to rest regarding DH's feelings for JA, it's still technically an open ending.

 

However, what's becoming clearer is that the show tackled quite a few themes -  huge life themes - and they pulled it off masterfully. In that sense the show, being the masterpiece that it is, defies categorization.

 

On 5/19/2022 at 9:22 AM, YukawaCattle said:

But about CLOY, I think people who see the reality of the male lead and female lead should feel that this drama is absolutely a closed ending. :sweatingbullets:

Did you still have any questions when seeing their wedding photos? :sweatingbullets:

 

:lol:

 

On 5/21/2022 at 3:13 PM, YukawaCattle said:

I think divorce is a sure thing.
The topic is not something that the audience can choose.

 

I totally agree with you that all clues pointed to DH and YH getting a divorce. However, again, without things being explicitly shown to the audience, much of the audience will most likely not catch that they've gotten a divorce on the first watch. Especially when the subtitles for TVN and Netflix say otherwise. In fact, the subtitles for TVN have Dong Hoon saying, "Having my wife around vs. not." What is that?!!

 

On 5/21/2022 at 3:13 PM, YukawaCattle said:

On this point, KWS's interview in the Blu-ray director's edition also verifies this:

 

KWS: "If you put a group photo of three people together (DH, YH, JS), won't it look too warm? That's very different from the outcome of the drama that has been going on here."

 

Great to know that he said something like this. Shows what his intentions were. But again - too bad a lot of people saw the three pictures of YH on DH's desk and thought that they were still together :(

 

So I think we need to balance the intentions of KWS and PHY (putting in dialogue and clues about DH and YH's endgame), with what they knew the audience might not catch. It's actually kind of frustrating! Especially when many Koreans themselves, watching the show in its original Korean, still think that DH and YH's marriage survived.

 

And over on Man v Drama, some of the Korean commenters praise DH and JA for resuming their guardian/ mentee relationship in the end :sweatingbullets:, each happy that the other one is doing so well.

 

Sometimes I think that if the Koreans watching it in Korean can't pick up on all the clues - and KWS and PHY knew that would happen - then that's something we need to keep in mind when we approach the drama. For some reason they did let the audience choose to believe certain things - and they were OK with that. At least, they never came out strongly and said otherwise. Even though they completed their story and wrote it well.

 

~

 

@partyon, who has heard me talk endlessly about MM, just brought this new Soompi Quiz to my attention:

 

https://www.soompi.com/article/1526508wpp/quiz-which-of-ius-k-drama-characters-is-your-soulmate

 

Who do you guys get? :lol:

 

 

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On 5/17/2022 at 9:24 PM, YukawaCattle said:

 

Thank you for compiling these scripts. These are all easter eggs, hidden clues and messages from the PDnim, that are obviously put in there for a reason. One thing I’m sure everyone would agree on – these are not filler scenes, put in the show just for humor and entertainment. So if everyone would at least agree on that, then it means everyone again agrees to this conclusion: these scripts have meanings relevant to the story.

 

What could their meanings be? Again, perhaps I’m just biased, but so far I can’t think of any other than what you have put forward. They all point to how DH and JA’s story will unfold, and that DH and JA really is end-game.

 

 

But as we have mentioned, there would always be viewers who wouldn’t accept these hidden messages, much less catch them, and will have different interpretations of the ending. You are right, for some group of people, the show has an open ending and a closed one for some. I don’t know what do you call this type of endings.. Perhaps “ambiguous” as @the_sweetroad put it?

 

So why didn’t the PDnim just provide for a more explicit ending? I’m just speculating here, that perhaps that was due to the backlash?

In the press conference they had back then to address the backlash, the PDnim mentioned how they will self-censor some scenes but will continue with the main message of the show.

Again, I can be over-reading things here, but given the context of that reply, admitting to “self-censor” seemed an indication of guilt, isn’t it? Guilt from what? From what they are being accused of in the backlash? Hhmmm...

 

Hotel Del Luna spoilers ahead…

 

In HDL, it wasn’t a happy, romantic ending that some shippers are hoping for. But the drama has shown a dreamy sequence to end the story, causing some viewers to think that was the happy ending they are looking for, or that it at least has an open ending. The Hong sisters categorically denied that in an interview, that it was not meant to convey a romantic or even an open ending, squashing any speculations.

 

I think in the case of MM, there were no such categorical answers nor denials. They did not confirm nor deny anything, but kept their statements vague. Again me reading through the context of the events – silence/avoidance could be a sign of guilt. 

 

On 5/19/2022 at 9:48 AM, YukawaCattle said:

I want to share some cases of story within a story that shows up in K-drama here with you guys to show that such a metaphor technique is not only used in MM but also frequently shows up in other dramas. That is, this thing actually is common sense in drama, not a new thing in MM.

 

*Notice that this post has Spoiler of Squid Game, Crash Landing on You, and Business Proposal.

 

 

Thank you again for compiling these examples of story within a story! :partyblob:  You are right, they all provided clues, again easter eggs, as to how their respective stories will end. (I specifically enjoyed the examples from Squid Game and CLOY!!) And it shouldn’t be any different to the movie and scripts inside MM’s story – they all provide clues how MM will end. As I mentioned above, these are not filler scenes just for entertainment for sure!

 

 

On 5/21/2022 at 9:13 PM, YukawaCattle said:

I think divorce is a sure thing.
The topic is not something that the audience can choose.

 

For me, the contrast in the desk photos at the end is definitive, not necessarily of divorce, but that DH and YH are no longer a couple, that they have freed each other to pursue new relationships.

 

The use of contrasting technique is so glaring here. The photo of DH, YH, and JS has been focused perhaps more than a dozen times throughout the show, such that the focus of the photos in the end that are starkly different can only mean one thing.

 

@YukawaCattle, if you could compile the other instances where the contrast technique is used in the show, then it could perhaps be more convincing that such a technique is indeed used in MM and is consistent in how it was used throughout. :sweat_smile:

 

And since you mentioned SH’s story in ep 15 means they are single, then that photo of the 3 brothers at the desk indicates that DH is single-at-heart at that point in time, before the reunion with JA.

 

On 5/21/2022 at 9:13 PM, YukawaCattle said:

On this point, KWS's interview in the Blu-ray director's edition also verifies this:

 

KWS: "If you put a group photo of three people together (DH, YH, JS), won't it look too warm? That's very different from the outcome of the drama that has been going on here."

 

wonder what was the context of this answer from KWS? Because on the surface, it seems to mean that DH and YH are indeed no longer together. But of course it could mean something else given the context of the question.

 

 

2 hours ago, the_sweetroad said:

@partyon, who has heard me talk endlessly about MM, just brought this new Soompi Quiz to my attention:

 

https://www.soompi.com/article/1526508wpp/quiz-which-of-ius-k-drama-characters-is-your-soulmate

 

Who do you guys get? :lol:

 

I got Cindy! It’s a sign that I should watch The Producers next! :lol:

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16 hours ago, the_sweetroad said:

Interesting discussion and sorry to get back to it so late.

 

I'm not too sure about this, that it only depends on yourself... I'm not sure if the audience is the first point of reference, or only point of reference. The way I read Robert McKee's definition, we have to factor in KWS and PHY's intentions and the questions they raise and the answers they give.

 

What questions did they raise in the story? And what answers did they give? (This could be a whole other rabbit trail.) As far as the question - do DH and JA love each other and will they pursue a romantic relationship?, the answers are in the clues they've packed into the story, like we know.  But they knew that half the audience wouldn't pick up on those clues; KWS and PHY were sly and coy. They could have been very explicit and told everyone that the shippers were right and the non-shippers were wrong. That's why to me, based on RMcK's definition, it's still an open ending. Too much is left open to interpretation at the end, and that's the way KWS and PHY deliberately designed it. (Otherwise they could have just had people say very clearly what was up, or like in Notting Hill, shown a pregnant Julia Roberts resting on a bench with Hugh Grant. Now there is a closed ending, conclusively shown).

 

However...

 

He mentions "emotion," which means this depends on yourself. 
Your emotion is independent of anyone else, no? :rubchin:
It is because other plays do not have such a variety of perspectives when watching that Prof. McKee defines the usual situation in general.
Anyway, Prof. McKee still gives such a definition.

Hope he will watch MM and give another definition...? :rubchin:

 

And about the "question", I think for we shipper is loveline, divorced, and new start.

For non-shipper, maybe only divorced.

Or they don't have any question. :sweatingbullets:

 

16 hours ago, the_sweetroad said:

Should we just call it "a beautiful ending" then? :lol:

 

Ok... MM have a beautiful ending... :rubchin:

 

16 hours ago, the_sweetroad said:

I think KWS and PHY definitely wanted to make a healing drama (explicitly), and definitely wanted to show that DH and JA loved each other (explicitly in some ways) but ended up keeping their actual romantic love subtle. Probably due to initial audience backlash, unfortunately.

 

So I agree with @actionscript - we can look at it from a lot of different angles because it's not black and white. Some might call it an "ambiguous ending" when it comes to DH and JA and what will happen between them. For me, because I really, REALLY wish they had explicitly put our doubts to rest regarding DH's feelings for JA, it's still technically an open ending.

 

However, what's becoming clearer is that the show tackled quite a few themes -  huge life themes - and they pulled it off masterfully. In that sense the show, being the masterpiece that it is, defies categorization.

 

I personally think that technically speaking, KWS and PHY have used a story within a story to closed up the ending.

I personally think this is their intention.
Otherwise, Ki-hoon's script - a story within a story - would not have been necessary at the end.
In particular, they used double a story within a story such a very laborious way to describe the ending.
First, they used Yu-ra's movie to make "Yu-ra=Ji-an", and then they let Ki-hoon write the script to show that Ji-an and Dong-hoon's love story had already started.
I think this is a very laborious arrangement for every creator.

So if the ending didn't have such an intention, they don't have to make things difficult for themselves.

 

And I want to state my point of view about "different opinions" in passing.
I don't want to accommodate all opinions because the director and screenwriter must have the answer.
Otherwise, if there is no standard answer, how is LSK going to act?
The instructions he received from KWS is there love or no love, divorced or not, new start or not - what is the hand shake means?

So LSK must have received a fixed instruction of "yes" or "no."
How else is he going to play Park Dong-hoon?
Logically speaking, of course, there is love, divorced, and new start, and then MM's team will say that there are no such things because it is certainly more convenient to do so.

So I personally just want to focus on "Which is the high probability of occurrence?"
After all, the idea of different people won't affect the fact.

This is my personal idea.

 

16 hours ago, the_sweetroad said:

I totally agree with you that all clues pointed to DH and YH getting a divorce. However, again, without things being explicitly shown to the audience, much of the audience will most likely not catch that they've gotten a divorce on the first watch. Especially when the subtitles for TVN and Netflix say otherwise. In fact, the subtitles for TVN have Dong Hoon saying, "Having my wife around vs. not." What is that?!!

 

16 hours ago, the_sweetroad said:

Great to know that he said something like this. Shows what his intentions were. But again - too bad a lot of people saw the three pictures of YH on DH's desk and thought that they were still together :(

 

So I think we need to balance the intentions of KWS and PHY (putting in dialogue and clues about DH and YH's endgame), with what they knew the audience might not catch. It's actually kind of frustrating! Especially when many Koreans themselves, watching the show in its original Korean, still think that DH and YH's marriage survived.

 

And over on Man v Drama, some of the Korean commenters praise DH and JA for resuming their guardian/ mentee relationship in the end :sweatingbullets:, each happy that the other one is doing so well.

 

Sometimes I think that if the Koreans watching it in Korean can't pick up on all the clues - and KWS and PHY knew that would happen - then that's something we need to keep in mind when we approach the drama. For some reason they did let the audience choose to believe certain things - and they were OK with that. At least, they never came out strongly and said otherwise. Even though they completed their story and wrote it well.

 

Now I think that if people can read it, they can read it, but if they can't, forget it.

Personally, I have always cared only about the fact that what is high probability.
And now I personally also don't care if anyone can't see it.
Because they can't see it and "it's not true" are always two different things.

I always think what is called "fact" is something that is independent of anything else.

For example, generally speaking, does the audience always know there is a technique called a story within a story?
No.
But does this means that a story within a story does not exist?
It obviously exists.
So now I think that people who can understand these things will understand, and those who can't, forget it.

But these clues are still a part of MM.

 

I say this is because PHY and KWS could not have let Dong-hoon shake hands with Ji-an when he was in love with her and when he was not yet divorced. (Ki-hoon's script already show us loveline.)
So this must be a divorce ending.

If you are a creator, you can't make a story like this.
Such a thing will destroy Park Dong-hoon's character design.

 

And we have hardly seen any open-ended works where the director and screenwriter come out to talk about what will happen in the end, right?
Retain the words of the camera and let the audience judge for themselves.
This is a kind of professional.

So I personally thinking that it's not a big deal if they don't show up to state their position, under the situation that they want to make it "ambiguous".

 

And in fact, the Korean netizen also found Ki-hoon's script in 2018.

And Sang-hoon's script was discovered in 2020.

So the Koreans actually also found a lot of clues of loveline and have a lot of shippers.

You guys can read this list.

 

https://gall.dcinside.com/board/view/?id=mymister&no=58622

 

I mean, Korean themselves still can see these clues exist, so this is not just we foreigner's imagination.

This is just a matter of whether people can see it or not.

And this thing is independent of whether you are Korean or not.

 

Sometimes you talk about more theories of drama, or share your observations that are based on several hours, but still can not convince everyone of the reason, not because there is no answer to this matter, but simply because some people do not want to accept and understand it.
Some people just don't like to see couples getting divorced or don't like to see age-gap relationships, that's all.
But their understanding has nothing to do with whether this drama is presented in this way.
So I personally think that I don't need to consider these ideas.

 

14 hours ago, actionscript said:

Thank you for compiling these scripts. These are all easter eggs, hidden clues and messages from the PDnim, that are obviously put in there for a reason. One thing I’m sure everyone would agree on – these are not filler scenes, put in the show just for humor and entertainment. So if everyone would at least agree on that, then it means everyone again agrees to this conclusion: these scripts have meanings relevant to the story.

 

What could their meanings be? Again, perhaps I’m just biased, but so far I can’t think of any other than what you have put forward. They all point to how DH and JA’s story will unfold, and that DH and JA really is end-game.

 

But as we have mentioned, there would always be viewers who wouldn’t accept these hidden messages, much less catch them, and will have different interpretations of the ending. You are right, for some group of people, the show has an open ending and a closed one for some. I don’t know what do you call this type of endings.. Perhaps “ambiguous” as @the_sweetroad put it? 

 

I agree a name called "ambiguous ending". :rubchin:

 

14 hours ago, actionscript said:

So why didn’t the PDnim just provide for a more explicit ending? I’m just speculating here, that perhaps that was due to the backlash?

In the press conference they had back then to address the backlash, the PDnim mentioned how they will self-censor some scenes but will continue with the main message of the show.

Again, I can be over-reading things here, but given the context of that reply, admitting to “self-censor” seemed an indication of guilt, isn’t it? Guilt from what? From what they are being accused of in the backlash? Hhmmm...
 

Hotel Del Luna spoilers ahead…

 

In HDL, it wasn’t a happy, romantic ending that some shippers are hoping for. But the drama has shown a dreamy sequence to end the story, causing some viewers to think that was the happy ending they are looking for, or that it at least has an open ending. The Hong sisters categorically denied that in an interview, that it was not meant to convey a romantic or even an open ending, squashing any speculations.

 

I think in the case of MM, there were no such categorical answers nor denials. They did not confirm nor deny anything, but kept their statements vague. Again me reading through the context of the events – silence/avoidance could be a sign of guilt. 

 

The opposition in Korea says that if Park Dong-hoon fall in love with Lee Ji-an, then MM is Lolita.
And I think there is a business consideration is IU.
If IU withdraws from MM, will the funds invested in MM follow suit?
If so, and if we were the creators, what would we do?
I think I will also secretly hide the loveline like KWS and PHY.

And at the same time, on the surface, the commercial success is good.

 

14 hours ago, actionscript said:

Thank you again for compiling these examples of story within a story! :partyblob:  You are right, they all provided clues, again easter eggs, as to how their respective stories will end. (I specifically enjoyed the examples from Squid Game and CLOY!!) And it shouldn’t be any different to the movie and scripts inside MM’s story – they all provide clues how MM will end. As I mentioned above, these are not filler scenes just for entertainment for sure!

 

:partyblob:

 

14 hours ago, actionscript said:

For me, the contrast in the desk photos at the end is definitive, not necessarily of divorce, but that DH and YH are no longer a couple, that they have freed each other to pursue new relationships.

 

The use of contrasting technique is so glaring here. The photo of DH, YH, and JS has been focused perhaps more than a dozen times throughout the show, such that the focus of the photos in the end that are starkly different can only mean one thing.

 

@YukawaCattle, if you could compile the other instances where the contrast technique is used in the show, then it could perhaps be more convincing that such a technique is indeed used in MM and is consistent in how it was used throughout. :sweat_smile:

And since you mentioned SH’s story in ep 15 means they are single, then that photo of the 3 brothers at the desk indicates that DH is single-at-heart at that point in time, before the reunion with JA.

 

Looking at the photo alone may not necessarily be a divorce, but in the overall context, it is a divorce ending.

After all, MM plot is linear development.
So I think we can always judge MM's plot by its context.

 

And I did want to collect all the comparison that KWS and PHY put on Park Dong-hoon.
But I don't have time these days.
I am translating the paper that I share on this Forum...

 

14 hours ago, actionscript said:

wonder what was the context of this answer from KWS? Because on the surface, it seems to mean that DH and YH are indeed no longer together. But of course it could mean something else given the context of the question.

 

The Koreans asked what the photo meant.
So they themselves are also divided into two factions within themselves, which means not all Koreans agrees that the photo = still together.

 

Actually, KWS said that Park Dong-hoon "maybe" maintains the status quo first because divorce is a big thing and will not be decided so soon.
But I think he's just trying to avoid answering.
Firstly, if he "maybe" maintain the status quo, why didn't you just shoot out the non-divorce ending clearly?
The second, in 3/4 of EP16, he and PHY set so many clues. Again, why don't you just shoot the clearly non-divorce ending rather than set these things?
And UC1970 mentioned before that the cafe reunion is already the first act of the Ki-hoon's script between Dong-hoon and Ji-an.
That is to say, Park Dong-hoon's handshake already contains his love for Lee Ji-an.
So the writer and director could not let Park Dong-hoon shake Lee Ji-an's hand when he was not yet divorced.

Also, no matter what reason Park Dong-hoon has for not getting divorced, these are not in line with the values of this drama - to be yourself.

"Don't sacrifice yourself for others."
So, of course, he won't not divorce because of JS.

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My hometown people(a writer) explain that there are two kinds of open endings.

One is disguised as an open ending, and the other is a real open ending.

 

(Original article: https://www.domorenovel.com/%E9%82%A3%E4%BA%9B%E7%B7%A8%E5%8A%87%E5%AF%AB%E5%87%BA%E3%80%8C%E9%96%8B%E6%94%BE%E5%BC%8F%E7%B5%90%E5%B1%80%E3%80%8D%E7%9A%84%E7%A7%98%E8%A8%A3/ )

 

 

---The following have Spoiler of Inception---

 

 

// There are usually two types of open endings.
One is a disguised open ending, such as the aforementioned "Inception."
Why do I say that it is disguised?
Because the story is basically finished, and the protagonist has finished his role, whether he stays in his dream or not.
He has said goodbye to his wife and out of the shadow of his heart.
So it makes no sense to leave the protagonist in the dream in terms of the story.

So why does the writer need to keep Leonardo in the dream?
Besides the cool feeling of "Wow, he stays in his dream forever," it makes no sense to the story and even destroys the meaning that the story might have had. (The process of facing the shadow of one's past)

This kind of open ending itself is usually placed at the end of a complete story, only the end deliberately uses some techniques to make it look open, but when you think deeper, you will find that the answer is actually obvious.
It just wants to avoid the obvious outcome so that you can actively participate in the thinking and feel the power of the story more clearly.//

 

 

I think MM is just like Inception.
It has a clear answer, but KWS and PHY just don't want to tell it easily.

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18 hours ago, actionscript said:

And since you mentioned SH’s story in ep 15 means they are single, then that photo of the 3 brothers at the desk indicates that DH is single-at-heart at that point in time, before the reunion with JA.

 

@actionscript, your words give me an idea.

 

 

Because EP1 Sang-hoon’s script is “There is no woman in MM,” which also means “What if Park Dong-hoon didn’t meet Lee Ji-an…?” I think EP1 Sang-hoon’s dream means that finally, Sang-hoon and Ki-hoon will both find a woman. 

 

-

 

f5NakiLLF8diD55_kA_i2dbwY7KNF1isTLLdw68y 

 

SH: In the future, I am going to build a town for middle-aged men. Only middle-aged men like me will live there. 

 

KH: Those who find a woman and escape will be killed. 

 

SH: Of course. But they won’t escape. There are no women. No one will find a woman. It’s a town where men can live in peace. It’s a simple town where men can depend on each other. We will make ramyeon for each other.

 

KH: You are talking nonsense.

 

SH: It’s simple. For example, “Come in for ramyeon” won’t mean anything else.

 

KH: Why would it mean anything else?

 

SH: Exactly. You can live in the town without a worry. When I make that town, you can be the head of the town. The head of the town. And I want to be the cacique. (<— Chinese translation is this subtitle.)

 

KH: Gosh...

 

-

 

The stories that Sang-hoon tells seem to have a feeling of reverse operation in MM, especially when it comes to women. So based on this, Sang-hoon and Ki-hoon will find a woman in the end, which means that Sang-hoon will be with Ae-ryun, and Ki-hoon will be with Yu-ra in the end.

But in such a situation, Dong-hoon should finally be with Ji-an because DongYoon is always reversal with SangAe, and DongAn is always in high sync with KiYu.

 

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After thinking about it for a few hours, I don't really understand why we still have to question, "Does Park Dong-hoon like Lee Ji-an or not" and "Is Park Dong-hoon divorced or not."

On the subject of loveline, tvN has confirmed it in their overseas promotions.

They confirmed this from the trailer to the poster.

 

The trailer:

 

Poster: Note the last sentence

spacer.png

Source

 

When the MM team denied that Dong-hoon likes Ji-an, they were facing Korean society.

So when they denied it, was there a single word they said to we foreigners?

No.

Then why do we treat of ourselves as Koreans?

We foreigners.

Let's just watch tvN's propaganda overseas.

The loveline is already confirmed by tvN. I think there is no need to question it.

 

And 3/4 of EP16 also provides a lot of clues about the divorce. 

From the elements of the camera to Omma and Ki-hoon's reaction, KWS and PHY already confirm this for us.

In particular, Thomas has already told us that Omma's words are assertions, not metaphors.

You guys can observe Omma by yourselves.

Which of her perceptions of the Park brothers is wrong?

Therefore, Omma's comment that Dong-hoon finally became a single person, which is translated as "becomes a bachelor" in Chinese, is already an assertion, not a metaphor.

Likewise, Omma's statement that Sang-hoon will make up with Ae-ryun is also an assertion, not a metaphor.

Also, what Ki-hoon said will always happen in the future. And we have seen him clearly suggesting Dong-hoon divorce in EP13.

So the writer and director have told us that Park Dong-hoon got divorced through the characters of Omma and Ki-hoon.

 

It is strange that we believe Omma's assertion that Sang-hoon will reconcile with Ae-ryun, but we still question Omma's assertion that Dong-hoon becomes a bachelor. We don't think that Omma's statement means that Dong-hoon has divorced. Why?

Why do we believe that Omma said Sang-hoon would reconcile with Ae-ryun, but not that Dong-hoon has become a bachelor?

Both of these statements were clearly made by Omma.

What is going on here?

 

Sometimes we still question these things mainly because many people don't believe us.

But why should we shake our position just because people don't believe us?

Is what they see the truth?

Did they have more other ideas than just the photo of Yoon-hee and Ji-Seok?

Did they know the drama techniques like Chekhov's gun and a story within a story?

Did they find out that Ki-hoon&Yu-ra and Dong-hoon&Ji-an are in high synchronization?

Did they find out that Sang-hoon&Ae-ryun and Dong-hoon&Yoon-hee were presented in reverse?

Have they watched MM more than five times?

And how many details do they remember?

Or did they just watch it once or twice and then remember only a general idea?

 

Then why are we swayed by their words instead of choosing to believe that what we see is right?

I think accepting that people have different opinions should be like this: we can accept that they have different opinions, but we can still think they are wrong.

I think we should not put fairness and objectivity on top of things that have standard answers.

 

Also, I think we have to stop hoping that the MM team will come out and admit "whether Park Dong-hoon likes Lee Ji-an or not," "whether Park Dong-hoon is divorced or not," and "whether Park Dong-hoon will have a new start with Lee Ji-an or not."

They will not admit these things in a short time.

This is because this drama is still being watched by Korean society.

 

- The script book is selling well

- Netflix ranking top 10.

- When LSK was promoting King Maker, he was still asked about the EP7 beer foam.

 

With this kind of constant attention from the Korean community, there is no way the MM team could be on our side.

If they did, they would obviously be scolded by feminist groups, some IU fans, or non-shippers who love this drama.

And I don't think the value system of Korean society will change in a short time.

So the MM team can't be on our side in a short time.

Such a situation will continue for ten years maybe.

So even if they were to come out and say something, they would only deny it, just like LSK did.

But when they deny it, will we believe it?

We still don't believe it.

So in a situation where they won't stand by us, and we won't believe their denials, we keep asking, "Do loveline, divorce, and new start exist? What do the photos of Yoon-hee and Ji-Seok mean? Can any MM crew come out and say something to make us feel better?"

This is a very meaningless thing.

They won't admit it, and even if they come out and say something, they will deny it. But when they deny it, we also won't accept it.

Then we should not expect such things. Let's just trust our own judgment.

 

Sometimes I think this kind of thing is really just a matter of whether you believe in yourself or not.

It is because other people do not believe in us so we still have many questions.

I started out the same way, wavering in my position because of what others said.

And I think we just need to believe in our own judgment on MM.

What is called a fact won't change because of other people's different ideas.

The integral of e^{-x} on [0, \infty) is always equal to 1. 

Do people who have never studied Calculus know that its integral is equal to 1?

Probably not.

But it won't become other answers just because these people can't see it.

So does Park Dong-hoon's love for Lee Ji-an, and so does Park Dong-hoon already divorced Kang Yoon-hee.

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On 5/23/2022 at 12:11 PM, YukawaCattle said:

My hometown people(a writer) explain that there are two kinds of open endings.

One is disguised as an open ending, and the other is a real open ending.

 

(Original article: https://www.domorenovel.com/%E9%82%A3%E4%BA%9B%E7%B7%A8%E5%8A%87%E5%AF%AB%E5%87%BA%E3%80%8C%E9%96%8B%E6%94%BE%E5%BC%8F%E7%B5%90%E5%B1%80%E3%80%8D%E7%9A%84%E7%A7%98%E8%A8%A3/ )

 

Thanks for sharing about the different types of open-endings.

 

I agree with you, MM has a “disguised” open ending. As the article says: “It just wants to avoid the obvious results, so that you can actively participate in the ending, and more clearly feel the power of the story.”

 

The show thrived in being subtle, and in stirring the viewers' emotions not through what was said, but what was left unsaid. So that disguised open ending fits perfectly to the style and tone of the show. 

 

And that’s why the show bothered to put in so many clues and easter eggs to reveal the intent of the show. Those easter eggs would have been pointless if the ending was shown in black and white. So easter eggs + disguised open ending was apparently designed and planned for from the very start.

 

 

On 5/23/2022 at 5:19 PM, YukawaCattle said:

@actionscript, your words give me an idea.

 

Because EP1 Sang-hoon’s script is “There is no woman in MM,” which also means “What if Park Dong-hoon didn’t meet Lee Ji-an…?” I think EP1 Sang-hoon’s dream means that finally, Sang-hoon and Ki-hoon will both find a woman. 

 

-

 

SH: In the future, I am going to build a town for middle-aged men. Only middle-aged men like me will live there. 

 

KH: Those who find a woman and escape will be killed. 

 

SH: Of course. But they won’t escape. There are no women. No one will find a woman. It’s a town where men can live in peace. It’s a simple town where men can depend on each other. We will make ramyeon for each other.

 

KH: You are talking nonsense.

 

SH: It’s simple. For example, “Come in for ramyeon” won’t mean anything else.

 

KH: Why would it mean anything else?

 

SH: Exactly. You can live in the town without a worry. When I make that town, you can be the head of the town. The head of the town. And I want to be the cacique. (<— Chinese translation is this subtitle.)

 

KH: Gosh...

 

It became clearer to me now. That epilogue at the end of ep 1, the only epilogue in the entire show, is yet again another easter egg, as that scene doesn’t really fit into the flow of the story. The entire conversation of SH obviously smacks of sarcasm, saying that no one will end up with a woman. Being sarcastic, the intention obviously is the opposite -- everyone will get the girl by the end of the story. And placing it at the end of ep 1 was apparently to showcase the contrast on how the last episode will end – of DH getting the girl.

 

 

On 5/25/2022 at 10:02 AM, YukawaCattle said:

After thinking about it for a few hours, I don't really understand why we still have to question, "Does Park Dong-hoon like Lee Ji-an or not" and "Is Park Dong-hoon divorced or not."

On the subject of loveline, tvN has confirmed it in their overseas promotions.

They confirmed this from the trailer to the poster.

 

Poster: Note the last sentence

Source

 

Thanks for that poster! I’ve never seen that before. I find it amusing that the write-up focused on DH’s feelings. JA’s feelings are out in the open, so saying DH is trying “to deny his feelings” hits straight to the heart of the issue. That somehow solidified my observations before that a good part of the show really is about DH’s restraint, epitomized by that seemingly out-of-character whack on JA’s head. And that gives credence to your theory that all those instances of DH calling JA a “kid” was indeed that of DH being in denial.

 

 

On 5/25/2022 at 10:02 AM, YukawaCattle said:

The integral of e^{-x} on [0, \infty) is always equal to 1. 

Do people who have never studied Calculus know that its integral is equal to 1?

Probably not.

But it won't become other answers just because these people can't see it.

 

I studied calculus but I also didn’t know.  :facepalm:

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