[Drama 2018] My Mister, 나의 아저씨 - Best Drama at 2019 (55th) BaekSang Arts Awards

[YukawaCattle]

銝祈剜

[sadiesmith]

Hello friends! In light of the recent discussions, I think you will enjoy this short review by a Western journalist: https://onlysky.media/rsnedeker/my-mister-kind-of-a-love-story-about-something-else/

 

".. My Mister is at heart a chaste yet curiously erotic love story..."

[YukawaCattle]

銝祈剜

[YukawaCattle]

銝祈剜

[YukawaCattle]

銝祈剜

[Mochamom]

Hello,

 

I am new to commenting here, but have been following this forum's discussions for a year or so now.

 

I watched My Mister for the first time in late winter last year and became a great and devoted fan of this masterful, beautiful drama.  I went on to rewatch it or parts of it many times in the months to come.  This was at a time we were early in the pandemic and also after the craziness that had escalated 2020 in US politics and this drama gave me a comfortable cocoon I could retreat to at times and I am very grateful for that. 

 

I don't remember what I thought about the exact nature of Ji An's and Dong Hoon's relationship after my first watch unfortunately, but I am sure I was confused by the ending.  DH referred to YH as his wife in netflix subtitles and yet his interaction with JA at that cafe was only consistent with his character if he was now single.  Fairly soon thereafter I found the Give Me Slippers fansite and became more aware of all the deliberately embedded clues in the drama that pointed with some certainty to the development of a relationship that could eventually become a seemingly fated beautiful and romantic relationship between these two very unlikely soulmates. 

 

There are a many features to this drama that makes it so very special and memorable and creates long lasting devotion.  The drama was composed thoughtfully and masterfully in every possible way so that it in the end truly feels like real life in a very dear real life community.   Although it is fiction it doesn't feel like it is fiction.  You become acquainted with many well fleshed out characters that you develop significant affection for over time and want the best for them, especially the male and female leads.

 

I had early on read that this is a drama that gets better and better with each viewing and that is definitely true.  To get more and more over time requires significant effort and attention but is well worth it.  There is much that a one time casual and perhaps distracted viewer is going to miss.  That for me is another feature of this drama that had attracted me to it so strongly.  I had to become a bit of a sleuth and psychologist to find and assemble all the less than obvious details and it is clear that these details were very deliberately included by the writer and director.

 

I am very grateful for this forum as it was an early way for me to find a community of others that also loved this drama and were intrigued also by it's details.  I however am writing at this time because I have more recently been developing very different reactions to this forum.  I apologize in advance for being fairly frank.

 

Now, when I come to this forum I find I am often very frustrated and even angry.  It seems things have deevolved into repeated overanalysis and rehashing and redefining of things to try to somehow prove that Dong Hoon loves Ji An romantically and that the drama indicates with certainly that they are going to be together.  This can never be truly "proven" since the drama stops short timewise of overtly documenting that.  Also, whether or not we label this an open or closed ending doesn't change this fact.  I think we simply have to accept that others will not see things as we do and let this go.  This is a work of fiction only after all, although masterfully done.  

 

I too have had feelings of significant frustration when I see comments from others stating (even arrogantly) that there is absolutely no way that there is any more than nonromantic love between these two now or later.  But them taking that stance just is what it is.  Everyone has their own lenses they see the world through and those can be very permanently and firmly in place.  In addition, for some that might be able to see the possibility of more they won't unless they rewatch carefully and possibly read the writings of others that have already found the abundant clues embedded in the drama.  The majority of viewers do not have the time or interest to do this.  And this is more than OK!!!!  We need to let trying to convince others go!  

 

I have not been a poster here before, so this forum is indeed not as much my home as it is for others who do post.  However, I do feel the need to mention that this more recent direction on this forum may be even starting to make me feel more negatively toward My Mister.  I may stop checking in here.  I have noticed that I even find I have become reluctant lately to use the drama as background noise at home which use to be commonplace. 

 

It is possible that others who check in, but don't post, or may newly check in here, may also be affected by the direction of the posts.  Case in point:  I have seen some ambivalent statements about this forum recently by a poster I respect a lot at The Fangirl Verdict.  Maybe our thoughts shouldn't matter since we are not posters, but I still thought there may be reason to share this.

 

In closing,  I thank everyone who over time has posted in this Forum and shared there love of My Mister with others.

[YukawaCattle]

銝祈剜

[sweetroad]

The past couple of weeks have made me reflect a lot on the show, and re-visit why I love it and the reason it has been so impactful.

 

Upon reflection, I do think it defies categorization - romantic drama, character drama, healing drama - it is all of these at the same time. As @actionscript has said, the transformation that both Dong Hoon and Ji An undergo is profound, and the fact that they fall in love is a bonus, icing on the cake. But aside from the love story, just watching DH, JA, Ki Hoon, Sang Hoon, Yu Ra, Jung Hee, and others find growth and peace is so moving in itself.

 

In this thread, I've loved being able to bounce ideas off of everyone and hear from folks what they've noticed and enjoyed about the show. Because MM encompasses journeys of healing and character growth, there's something for everyone, even if we don't all agree that there's romantic love between DH and JA. And to me, that's OK. The show is about so much more than that. It's not our job to convince people that DH loves JA - that's KWS and PHY's job, and they obviously chose to be subtle about it. I can defer to that, and almost-happily live with it.

 

@YukawaCattle chingu you've definitely brought a lot of cool insights to light. Thanks for those. You yourself should write some academic papers on MM! As I said in the PM, I hope you don't go. We can all find a place here, enjoying each other's company and insights.

 

On 5/28/2022 at 3:38 AM, YukawaCattle said:

You guys over here simply with reading certainly think writing these articles is easy, but each article is spent hours or even sacrificed personal time to make it, so you may not feel the need to care too much about the truth or not, you can easily tolerate others and claim peace here, but when you take the time to write these things, you will understand you definitely care "Which one is correct." And I don't think it's a mistake to pursue what's right and what's wrong.

 

In certain settings I absolutely agree that "Which one is correct," and clarifying what's right and what's wrong, are important. However, I believe that we do need to 'tolerate' others and find peace here on the MM thread.

 

A favorite author wrote, "I used to want to fix people, but now I just want to be with them." This knocked me over when I first read it, because my personality is totally one who has to be right and who wants everyone to think rightly and behave rightly.

 

But now I see the wisdom in what he wrote. So in this particular context, it's important (to me, at least) that we can all share our love for this beautiful, wonderful show even if we don't agree on certain things. And I'd love for new viewers of MM to find a welcome place here to share their musings and findings. That way we all add to each other's enjoyment of MM.

 

So I would say that even more than being right, being together on this forum, exchanging insights about MM, sussing out the characters, and delighting in the show together are what's important. Because MM is just simply a masterpiece.

 

Also - welcome @Mochamom! Look forward to hearing more of your thoughts whenever you want to jump in.

[dongans]

Hello mm fans!

I have this account for a very long time, and from time to time I come here to read what you guys are saying and to know more new incredible insights. I hope that with time I can contribute as well as a huge shipper that I am of this couple. 

I watched My Mister when it first aired, I binge watched the first 4 episodes that were available on dramafever and at the beginning I remember having this feeling that they were indeed a couple (idk why tho), and throughout 4ep I thought that I was insane because at the same time that the drama had those "romantic" "formula" scenes (like DH protecting her from getting 'smashed') we had the oposite afterwards (like her tapping DH's phone). It's something like a push-pull construction of relationship ?? probably you guys already talked about it (I'm still catching up all the convo). 

I always had this feeling that DH helped her because she was a person that needed that help, but also what he did was beyond of what a random person would have done (because when JA says that every person helped her only 4 times, I think that it's because she had so much problem, that at a certain point they would just quit... maybe because they did't love her? they can pity her but not love/like her). He did cross a fine line, and I like to think that KH and JH were "silence" witnesses, and YH was somehow a spokeperson saying it to ji an (that she never had from DH what JA has) right away because she had an affair.

Anyways, I want to say that MM fans are the best and thank all of you!   

Edited June 5, 2022 by dongans

[sweetroad]

So glad you posted @dongans! I joined Soompi a year ago, just to talk about MM, so I know the feeling of DH and JA sticking with you for a while (although not as long as you all who watched it when it first aired!) . Nice to read your thoughts.

 

On 6/5/2022 at 4:44 PM, dongans said:

I watched My Mister when it first aired, I binge watched the first 4 episodes that were available on dramafever and at the beginning I remember having this feeling that they were indeed a couple (idk why tho), and throughout 4ep I thought that I was insane because at the same time that the drama had those "romantic" "formula" scenes (like DH protecting her from getting 'smashed') we had the oposite afterwards (like her tapping DH's phone). It's something like a push-pull construction of relationship ??

 

Yes! There are so many contradictions in their relationship. "Push-pull" is an insightful way to put it. They kind of have a hostile, tense, and intense relationship in the beginning, don't they?

[davidms]

“I can give 100 or even 1,000 reasons. But I don’t know if any of them is a real reason.”

I have been thinking about “My Mister” for more hours than I care to admit, and unlike the many insightful comments that have deepened my understanding of this masterpiece, I thought I’d write about how I missed so much of this story, including the many signs that Dong Hoon and Ji An could eventually end up together. I’ve read many sharp observations and interpretations of scenes and characters, and this note is really not in that league. But I hope that, maybe, just maybe, by describing how the show initially confounded me, there will be room for some further discussion and maybe insight?…please at least humor me with my meanderings:~)

“My Mister” was the first KDrama I’d ever seen and after my initial viewing I was certain that Dong Hoon and Ji an would never start an open loving relationship, though they had given each other comfort to become more fulfilled and nurturing people. But I also felt I had misunderstood or totally missed the meaning of some scenes. Since watching the show several more times, and reading other interpretations of the nuances of dialogue and symbolism, I’m now sure Dong Hoon and Ji An will pursue a loving relationship as a couple, “happily ever after,” which they have earned.  

 

Each time I re-watched “My Mister,” I became more impressed with the many small scenes that added details to each character’s story, building into major insights and plot turns. MM shows the transformative power of love, healing and acceptance among Dong Hoon & Ji An, Gi Hoon & Yu Ra, Jeung Hee and her ex-boyfriend, the Monk, Gyeomduk, and the regulars of Jung Hee’s bar, who are the discards of Big Corporate life. We see characters nurtured by friendship and community, even within a society riven with corrosive social and economic competition, and severely rigid patriarchal hierarchies.

 

So I puzzled over why I was blind to Ji An’s and Dong Hoon’s love story in my first and second viewing of the series, :~) and why I foresaw the possibility of a reconciliation of Dong Hoon and Yoon Hee. I started watching MM haphazardly in the depth of the 2021 Covid Pandemic while mindlessly surfing Netflix, with no preconceptions. The Netflix description itself was generic, unrevealing, and nearly turned me away. Now that I know there was a backlash in Korea against a “young woman – older man” romance when this program began, I feel a tiny bit justified in missing the Dong Hoon – Ji An love story developing :~). I think the backlash caused the script and production to become more ambiguous about the relations of Dong-Hoon, Ji-An, and Yoon Hee. This made the story more compelling dramatically…but confusing for me as well.

So how did I miss so much? What I saw upon first viewing started from where I sit and what I choose to remember!….I am a 60+ year old man, married for nearly 40 years. My parents gave me a stable and nurturing environment. And nearly all of our married friends have (amazingly) remained together. Now “the course of true love never did run smooth,” and the marriages within my social group have had enough ups and downs to feed multiple Kdramas :~). Yet nearly all the marriages endured, with well-adjusted children no less. So I watched MM from that expectation and the perspective that commitment to children and family, spiritually and materially, is a non-negotiable “prime directive.”

So within my particular context, I dismissed the clues of the final breakup of Dong Hoon and Yoon Hee and saw hope for a possible reconciliation of the conventional husband and wife. Dong Hoon’s weakness as a partner – repressed, taciturn, unresponsive to his wife – was clearly portrayed and Yoon Hee was written with enough shades of gray, so I hoped/“saw” that her intense guilt could turn into an apology and reconciliation, that could be accepted by Dong Hoon and bring them to a new road.

I believed that, while Yoon Hee’s behavior was reprehensible, she had been abandoned emotionally by Dong Hoon so there was some shared responsibility for their problems. In Ep.12 Yoon Hee admits her transgression, and she and Dong Hoon let loose all the resentments they have lived with. He finally says, “since we’ve been together for 20 years, I don’t know how to end this. I don’t know how to fix this.” It is a dismal sentiment, but I thought it was better than saying, “I want a divorce – now,” and that Dong Hoon’s comment left the door open to some kind of reconciliation.

In some scenes, I thought even Ji An was pushing Yoon Hee to reconcile, and that there was still a chance of this, including when:

1.    Ji An revealed to Yoon Hee the recording of CEO Do Jun-Yeong ’s cynical description of the “safety” of an affair with a married woman, to speed the end of the affair.

2.    Ji An told Yoon Hee that Dong Hoon already knew about the affair. (the motivation of this could be interpreted many ways, but I thought it would force an open reckoning between DH and YH, rather than allowing their marriage to die from suppressed resentment and guilt.)

3.    The rooftop confrontation between Yoon Hee and CEO Do Jun-Yeong and Ji An, where Yoon Hee’s intent is to defend DH from Do Jun Yeong’s schemes and remove Ji An from the conflict completely.

Later, it is Yoon Hee who convinces Dong Hoon to “let’s come clean honey,” and admit to her affair. She does this so Ji An can come in from the cold to fully reveal Do Jun-Yeon’s schemes and so Ji An can reclaim her own life. Yoon Hee also is the most qualified to defend Ji An in court and does so willingly, keeping her out of jail. This left me feeling that Yoon Hee was acting with decency even to protect a woman who coveted her husband, and that there was some hope for Dong Hoon to turn back to his wife.

The final episode gave no hope for that, with the last nail in that coffin being Yoon Hee’s relocation to the US. I have always thought “intercontinental space marriages” are just short of actual divorce, but I hoped this move still was a plot mid-point between a total breakup of the marriage and a possible reconciliation. <I"m sure this is a mistaken view now> While Dong Hoon was a leading mourner for grandma, I also did not see other subtle signals of the possible uniting of Ji An with him. I did not register Dong Hoon’s 30-second handshake in the final scene, since it was below camera, his wide smiles, his monitoring of Ji An’s progress at her new employer, and the use of the final voiceover of the program as a hint of their conversation in the future. Even though each of these turns shows the probability of Ji An and Dong Hoon coming together, they just did not register with me at first, given my own expectations.

Thank you for reading this meandering post. Was I alone in being that clueless in the reading Dong Hoon's marriage's collapse? Were there other pivotal scenes or dialogues that I'm missing here? I’m interested in hearing other fan opinions about the treatment of Yoon Hee and Dong Hoon’s relationship, and Ji An’s maneuverings around them. 

Edited June 7, 2022 by davidms
clarify

[sweetroad]

On 6/7/2022 at 5:58 AM, davidms said:

But I hope that, maybe, just maybe, by describing how the show initially confounded me, there will be room for some further discussion and maybe insight?…please at least humor me with my meanderings:~)

“My Mister” was the first KDrama I’d ever seen and after my initial viewing I was certain that Dong Hoon and Ji an would never start an open loving relationship, though they had given each other comfort to become more fulfilled and nurturing people.

 

@davidms So wonderful to see you here! Thanks for sharing your experience and love for My Mister. And MM was your first Kdrama....wow!  

 

On 6/7/2022 at 5:58 AM, davidms said:

Each time I re-watched “My Mister,” I became more impressed with the many small scenes that added details to each character’s story, building into major insights and plot turns.

 

Agreed. Some people think My Mister is a slow drama, but in fact each episode is jam-packed with scenes that develop the characters and move the story along. The repetition of settings helps, too; for example, there are so many scenes that take place at Saman, at Jung Hee's bar, and at Dong Hoon and Ji An's "regular" bar. I feel like we get to see the characters and places from different angles.

 

On 6/7/2022 at 5:58 AM, davidms said:

So within my particular context, I dismissed the clues of the final breakup of Dong Hoon and Yoon Hee and saw hope for a possible reconciliation of the conventional husband and wife. Dong Hoon’s weakness as a partner – repressed, taciturn, unresponsive to his wife – was clearly portrayed and Yoon Hee was written with enough shades of gray, so I hoped/“saw” that her intense guilt could turn into an apology and reconciliation, that could be accepted by Dong Hoon and bring them to a new road.

 

This expresses so much of what I thought on first watching the show as well. Being married, knowing the ideal is for a couple to work through things and stay together, and having the Netflix subtitle say, "My wife and child are in the US," I thought Dong Hoon and Yoon Hee stayed together. Especially with Yoon Hee's repentance and her "change" in staying home in the evenings and waiting for Dong Hoon, and being solicitous of him and initiating conversation with him. Even if Dong Hoon shut her out, I thought she was finally taking responsibility for her marriage and for her actions. I saw hope there.

 

Now when I watch the show, it's striking how Dong Hoon loathes her by Episode 10, even if he has chosen to endure his marriage. As solicitous as Yoon Hee becomes of him, he shows almost zero signs of life toward his marriage (except that he says he'll stay in it as long as Yoon Hee doesn't know he knows about the affair). Instead, all of his "signals" and energy are channeled toward Ji An, and not at all toward Yoon Hee. Ouch.

 

On 6/7/2022 at 5:58 AM, davidms said:

I did not register Dong Hoon’s 30-second handshake in the final scene, since it was below camera, his wide smiles, his monitoring of Ji An’s progress at her new employer, and the use of the final voiceover of the program as a hint of their conversation in the future. Even though each of these turns shows the probability of Ji An and Dong Hoon coming together, they just did not register with me at first, given my own expectations.

 

Same! These motions and clues were so subtle and easily missed if we were already in the mindset that there wasn't a loveline between Dong Hoon and Ji An.

 

On 6/7/2022 at 5:58 AM, davidms said:

Were there other pivotal scenes or dialogues that I'm missing here? I’m interested in hearing other fan opinions about the treatment of Yoon Hee and Dong Hoon’s relationship, and Ji An’s maneuverings around them. 

 

Yes, would be great to hear what @actionscript @Pixaiated - and others who have delved into their relationship - think, too.

 

We talked a bit earlier on this thread about why Ji An would have tried to get Yoon Hee to stop cheating and go back to Dong Hoon in the earlier episodes (Episodes 5 - 7 ish). If I recall correctly from the discussion, I think that as long as Ji An thought that there was hope for reconciliation and for Yoon Hee to "come to her senses" and go back to a good man like Dong Hoon, she (JA) actively worked for that.

 

However, by Episode 9, when she heard how callously Yoon Hee said that Do Joon Young and Dong Hoon could fight it out, and that "structural engineers can get fired; they can always find another job," Ji An realized that Yoon Hee wasn't really "for" Dong Hoon. At that point, I think something changed in JA's attitude toward YH, and she didn't care if Dong Hoon found out the truth and got himself out of a bad and truly unloving marriage.

 

As far as other pivotal scenes, did you happen to see this post? It's a collaborative collection of clues pointing to a strong possibility of Dong Hoon and Yoon Hee divorcing. I completely missed most of these upon first watch, but when I re-watched the show after having read Give Me Slippers and other viewers' thoughts, a pattern and trajectory did seem to emerge quite clearly.

 

Again @davidms welcome to the thread and it's so good to hear your thoughts! Are you still watching the show these days as well?

[actionscript]

On 6/7/2022 at 11:58 AM, davidms said:

“I can give 100 or even 1,000 reasons. But I don’t know if any of them is a real reason.”

I have been thinking about “My Mister” for more hours than I care to admit, and unlike the many insightful comments that have deepened my understanding of this masterpiece, I thought I’d write about how I missed so much of this story, including the many signs that Dong Hoon and Ji An could eventually end up together. I’ve read many sharp observations and interpretations of scenes and characters, and this note is really not in that league. But I hope that, maybe, just maybe, by describing how the show initially confounded me, there will be room for some further discussion and maybe insight?…please at least humor me with my meanderings:~)

 

Welcome to the thread, @davidms! 

 

Anecdotally I’d say most went through the same journey as you did with this show. Most who watched the show for the first time would have missed the love line and might have been confused as well as to the status of the relationship between DH and YH.

 

Even though I did notice the love line on my first watch, despite several re-watches, I’d say 99% of what I eventually learned about the show, the clues, insights, etc.,  I’ve gained from reading what others wrote from various sites.

 

Aside from the drama’s “show, don’t tell” approach and its use of subtlety, another intricacy I realized is that as we the viewers learn more about the story and the characters as we go along, we tend to now interpret the words and motivations of each character based on that overall knowledge, when in fact each character doesn’t know a lot of the things we know about the big picture, and that character was in fact acting based on his/her limited knowledge of things.

 

One example is that when JA “confessed” her feelings to DH at the end of ep 10 when the spy photographer was trailing them, we all know YH was cheating on DH, and we also know JA is aware of that as she’s been listening, but DH doesn’t know that JA knew. DH thought, at that point at least, that no one knew he was having marital problems, esp. JA. So that smack on JA should be understood in the context that DH was seeing JA confess her feelings to a happily married man. There’s a lot of other reasons for sure, and a lot of different interpretations, on that smack, but for me that context mattered and formed part of how DH received JA’s words.

 

Another great example is what @the_sweetroad cited here:

 

On 6/9/2022 at 10:49 PM, the_sweetroad said:

We talked a bit earlier on this thread about why Ji An would have tried to get Yoon Hee to stop cheating and go back to Dong Hoon in the earlier episodes (Episodes 5 - 7 ish). If I recall correctly from the discussion, I think that as long as Ji An thought that there was hope for reconciliation and for Yoon Hee to "come to her senses" and go back to a good man like Dong Hoon, she (JA) actively worked for that.

 

However, by Episode 9, when she heard how callously Yoon Hee said that Do Joon Young and Dong Hoon could fight it out, and that "structural engineers can get fired; they can always find another job," Ji An realized that Yoon Hee wasn't really "for" Dong Hoon. At that point, I think something changed in JA's attitude toward YH, and she didn't care if Dong Hoon found out the truth and got himself out of a bad and truly unloving marriage.

 

It's easy to misinterpret JA's motivations in her actions unless one would carefully construct her world view based on what events and conversations she has been exposed to. 

IT's easy to slide towards thinking the characters have the same frame of mind we the viewers have based on all the info we've been given so far.

 

 

It’s also oftentimes a challenge to connect the dots between events. When JA’s friend warned her to run away as the police are closing in on them, she bargained for one more day. At the end of that episode, we see DH finding the slippers back in his drawer. Many, myself included, missed the connection that JA risked being caught by the police just to buy back the slippers that DH requested from her.

 

I wrote about another theory I have on why many missed, or even resisted, the love line between DH and JA here:

 

https://forums.soompi.com/topic/408082-drama-2018-my-mister-%EB%82%98%EC%9D%98-%EC%95%84%EC%A0%80%EC%94%A8-best-drama-at-2019-55th-baeksang-arts-awards/?do=findComment&comment=22302017

 

On 6/7/2022 at 11:58 AM, davidms said:

Was I alone in being that clueless in the reading Dong Hoon's marriage's collapse? Were there other pivotal scenes or dialogues that I'm missing here? I’m interested in hearing other fan opinions about the treatment of Yoon Hee and Dong Hoon’s relationship, and Ji An’s maneuverings around them. 

 

YH’s mistake is not just the cheating, but more important, who she cheated with. DH’s predicament isn’t just about a wife who had an affair with another man. Consider the ff:

 

-  The man she cheated with demoted him at work. (DH was transferred from the more prestigious Design team to the Inspection team.)

-  That man, through his henchman Dir. Yoon, mocks and bullies him every day at work, and worse, does so in front of his entire team at that!!

-  That man was DH’s junior yet overtook him by being CEO. Though DH isn’t bothered by that, I’m sure that would have changed after he found out that man also slept with his wife.

-  That man wanted to fire him at work, and his wife was complicit! What happens to middle-aged men who gets fired at work? Well, we have Sang Hoon as exhibit A. In short, that man not only slept with his wife, but wanted him broke, jobless, and would have to live in shame and disappointment esp. to the eyes of his son Ji Seok, his mom, and his brothers. 

 

That’s too much for one person to handle, don’t you think? And the kicker, he has to bow down to this man since he’s the boss! When DH said It felt like YH wanted him dead, that’s no exaggeration when you consider all the things above. It’s certainly not just the infidelity.  After these realizations, I don’t see how a reconciliation is even possible with someone who DH once felt wanted him dead.

[Pixaiated]

On 6/7/2022 at 11:58 AM, davidms said:

Thank you for reading this meandering post. Was I alone in being that clueless in the reading Dong Hoon's marriage's collapse? Were there other pivotal scenes or dialogues that I'm missing here? I’m interested in hearing other fan opinions about the treatment of Yoon Hee and Dong Hoon’s relationship, and Ji An’s maneuverings around them. 

 

Your post was really interesting to me, since I felt pretty strongly throughout the series that the marriage wouldn't last. I feel that the show did a good job in painting how they didn't really suit each other, and how their priorities / desires in life were never really aligned. DH was shown to value his family and community of friends, whilst YH wanted nothing to do with them. I really liked YH's line about how the way they perceive family, and by extension, the people they prioritize most in their lives, is different. For YH, it's the three of them, including their kid. For DH, it's much larger than that, and that family includes his brothers and his mother.

 

It's a pretty big misalignment and one that was never resolved by them - largely due to DH actively avoiding the problem. Ultimately, I just felt that the two of them had pretty significant differences in what they wanted from their lives, and that they (especially DH) never clearly communicated these differences / came to a compromise on these points, and they started to drift apart. There's a line somewhere about them discussing why the house is always empty and asking which came first - Her always working late because he was never home? Him always being at the bar because she was never home? And that they both no longer know which came first.

 

From my point of view, their wants in life are so different that it's difficult to see it work out. Could they have done it? Possibly, if an effort was made earlier. I just feel that it's really difficult given the affair. This is also further hinted by the show with the scene where DH speaks alone with the bartender at the bar he and JA frequents. Here, the bartender is given a backstory where he is cheated on, and he says something along the lines of it being impossible to remain in a marriage with a cheater because of the pain it brings, and that a divorce will eventually happen because of it. It's a strong parallel to DH's situation and hints at DH's eventual divorce - there's no real reason for this scene (and the bartender to have this backstory) otherwise.

 

I also just want to say that I really loved how YH and DH's relationship was treated. Both characters are beautifully grey and beautifully human here. I would say that both made mistakes in the relationship that led to the eventual affair, and that it's easy to emphasize with and understand both of them. I think it's a beautiful exploration of the importance of communication and making sure that a couple's life goals are aligned.

[dongans]

dropping off something random 

 

I remembered a phrase in "My Liberation Notes", Ep8, where Mijeong said: "you can do anything in front of someone who likes you" (in a romantic way) and I instantly remembered DH saying to JA that "if you get to know a person, if you get to know them, nothing they do bothers you. And I know you."

I was so intrigued by it, when Mijeong said that, I just thought that maybe DH was able to be himself in front of JA (he did and said things that he would not say to everyone or even to his brothers) because he knew she liked him (even though he was always avoiding her declarations as if he didn't believe in it), which means that the opposite makes sense, everything that she did in front of him was possible because she knew that he liked her too.
(JA indeed tried to push DH in several moments showing him her worst, but he was never "done" with her, his reaction is quite the reverse, he was always looking for her. She indeed has self sabotage tendencies, and she did this with everyone that tried to help her, but DH has the factor "love" in it, so it's impossible to let go of her that easily.)

 

"you can do anything in front of someone who likes you" = "if you get to know a person, nothing they do bothers you. And I know you."

 

For me, Mijeong's line, was somehow a crossover response(?) that PHY found to communicate with the viewers about her point of view of love. Not saying that she thought about DH and JA while writing MLN, but maybe it's just her personal thought about how love works, generally speaking.


idk, anyways  

Edited June 19, 2022 by dongans

[matrice]

On 1/17/2022 at 11:37 PM, the_sweetroad said:

As mentioned earlier, I wanted to compile updated comprehensive lists that showed:

 

1. Evidence of Dong Hoon and Yoon Hee's divorce

2. Evidence of Dong Hoon's feelings for Ji An

3. Evidence of Ji An's feelings for Dong Hoon throughout the show and final scene*** (see end of post)

 

We could probably also do a list of the evidence for the DH/ JA loveline, from what we've been talking about these last few pages.

 

Here's the first list, a compilation of breadcrumbs and evidence for Dong Hoon and Yoon Hee's divorce. Evidence will be stronger than breadcrumbs; breadcrumbs are little things sprinkled into the show that could be insignificant, but taken together seem to paint a good picture of what happens. The list is composed of dialogue and symbols from the show, informed by Give Me Slippers and excellent insights from you guys. Just wanted to bring it all together here for our easier reference. Let me know what I'm missing.

 

Some words/ dialogue/ symbols that are repeated - or particularly interesting - are in bold.

 

EVIDENCE AND BREADCRUMBS OF DONG HOON and YOON HEE'S DIVORCE

(dialogue from VIKI)

 

EPISODE 4

Yoon Hee meets with Do Joon Young at the Minette and she says: "If Dong Hoon had married some other woman, he would have had no problems. He's faithful and kind, but he is a bit lonely. So he makes the person with him feel lonely too. I tried all sorts of things, but I finally realized that I can't make him happy. He always seems like someone who has lost something. He's lost something, but what it is he doesn't know. So he always seemed to be wandering. Then he seemed to be resigned to it. 'I came the wrong way. This isn't the world I belong to.' Even so, he is faithful about his duty to his family, this frustrating man. Ah! I'm sick of this. I'm trying to justify having an affair somehow."

 

I found this passage particularly repulsive, because she then goes on to casually joke to her lover that she is cheating on DH because JY is just too charming. She just admitted he was a good person, then casually talks about betraying and deceiving him, with no sign of guilt or remorse. As an aside, the use of the term "frustrating" seems to indicate to me that she would feel more comfortable if he was not someone suffering from borderline suicidal depression that still tried to do his best to carry out his family duties -maybe she would be happier if he wasn't, like if he was cheating on her, so she could have an excuse to cheat-.

 

On 1/17/2022 at 11:37 PM, the_sweetroad said:

EPISODE 6

In this episode Dong Hoon discovers that Yoon Hee and Do Joon Young are having an affair.

EPISODE 7

In Dong Hoon's confrontation with Do Joon Young at the campsite, he asks DJY: "You trying to frame me for taking that bribe of 50 million won, did Yoon Hee know about that plan? ….That you were going to use that to get me fired, did Yoon Hee know or not?… Did she know or not?"

 

Do Joon Young turns away and doesn’t answer, so the assumed answer is yes (which is true).

 

Commentary: It's very important to Dong Hoon whether Yoon Hee knew about the plan to get him framed and fired. Not only was Yoon Hee having an affair, but she knew about the bribe and the plan to get Dong Hoon fired, but she didn't tell him about it? That's deep betrayal.

 

EPISODE 8

At omma’s birthday party, the family is talking about the three brothers drinking so much.

 

Ae Ryun: Sister-in-law, why don’t you scold your husband?

 

Yoon Hee: It’s not possible, I gave up.

 

Ae Ryun: Brother-in-law, please listen to me. In my entire life, I’ve never seen anyone who doesn’t put his wife first end up living properly in his latter years. Mother-in-law, I’m sorry, but this is the truth.

 

Omma: I agree that it’s true. Do you know what I wish for? That before I die, you all find your spouses and that I see you getting along well with them before I die. If husband and wife are just loyal to each other, it won’t matter if they become beggars. Even if war breaks out, there is nothing to fear.

 

Commentary: This is an interesting juxtaposition of Ae Ryun challenging Dong Hoon to "put his wife first" with omma saying that if a husband and wife are "just loyal" to each other, they'll get along well. Omma says she agrees that putting the wife first means the husband will live properly in his latter years, but she also brings up loyalty between spouses as seemingly her highest value. Combined with the flashbacks to the early days of their marriage, I wonder if this is another way the show is telling us what broke down in Dong Hoon and Yoon Hee's marriage. Dong Hoon had trouble putting Yoon Hee first, but Yoon Hee was disloyal to Dong Hoon. It has been argued she didn't put Dong Hoon first, either (more from this GMS article later).

 

Here it's pretty important to remember their later conversation, it's a clear example of miscommunication that they both contributed to. He tended to suffer in silence and swallow his pain. He felt abandoned by her being at work and running to the study the few times she was at home, but didn't want to bother her because he understood how much her career mattered to her, and he wanted to support her (this is in the same line as him taking care of the housework before she went home, or not even turning on the TV, or raising the volume, to avoid disturbing her). At the same time, she merely accused him, assuming how he felt, without considering what she herself had done, so they entered a vicious cycle where he spent time with his brothers and friends because he didn't want to come home to an empty house, and vice versa.

 

That said, it's still important to point out that everyone else in the neighborhood behaved the same way, and that even AR is more amused/tongue in cheek when she talks about this. It's something they did since they twenties, so not exactly something DH hid when they dated/married. For that matter, both JA and KH's girlfriend were perfectly okay with the brothers/friends taking up space in their lover's lives (and both adored the neighborhood). So this was not even a dichotomy where they had to live this part of their lives separate from their partner. Indeed, in KH's case, he and his girlfriend spent time together at the bar, and she met his friends, etc. In this respect, I see a clear difference between the way she saw his family and friends as competition, versus the way DH never perceived her prioritizing her career as meaning that she didn't care abut him. Regrading the claim that she didn't put DH first, it should be self evident, in fact, barring the fact he wouldn't compromise his core values for her, he was always by her side: telling his brother, who peevishly questioned a lawyer having to go on business trips (she would miss his daughter's -her own niece's- wedding to be with her lover), that "if she said it's a business trip, then it is", or taking her lover to task about not wanting to marry her, even if he had just discovered her glove and his head was filled with images of them together, or responding with kindness to her harsh words and preparing porridge while knowing of her affair. Even being willing to compromise on seeing his brothers, an offer she nitpicked and spurned, without offering anything herself, despite the massive unfairness of not giving him space, considering how she knew he knew of the affair... notably, followed by questioning his care, while not offering any compromise of her own (like coming home earlier to spend time together). Compare and contrast with her total physical, emotional and financial betrayal, culminating with her not even caring about whether he could keep his job, since she was no longer the reason they were fighting and she didn't feel any responsibility. 

 

On 1/17/2022 at 11:37 PM, the_sweetroad said:

EPISODE 9 (1)
Dong Hoon: I was going to buy some toothpaste. Need anything?

 

Yoon Hee: Every day, asking me what I need….But you have no idea what I really need. (She enters her office and shuts the door behind her.)

 

Cut to Dong Hoon picking up one beer can from the kitchen table to put in his recycling bag.

 

Yoon Hee (opening her office door): When were you going to tell me?

 

Dong Hoon: About what?

 

Yoon Hee: That you were nominated for managing director.

 

Dong Hoon: Ah.

 

Yoon Hee: Ah? I waited to see when you would tell me. Why do I have to hear about you from your mother?

 

Dong Hoon: Sorry. I didn’t know if I’ll even make it, so I didn’t know if I should tell you.

 

Yoon Hee: But you still told your mother everything? Older brother-in-law knows, and so does Younger brother-in-law. But I’m the only one who doesn’t know.

 

Dong Hoon: I’m sorry.

 

Yoon Hee: That damn, “I’m sorry, I’m sorry….”

 

Dong Hoon goes out with the recycling and drops the recycling bag, spilling a bunch of beer cans.

 

Commentary: As we know from later episodes, beer signifies Yoon Hee wants to talk to Dong Hoon. Here, the camera cuts to Dong Hoon picking up the beer can from the table in between Yoon Hee being honest with him about her needs and her hurt that she was the last to find out about his possible promotion. The fact that he then dropped a bunch of beer cans in the hallway could be a breadcrumb that he doesn't know what to do with nor how to handle all of Yoon Hee's requests and honest conversations.

 

Probably the scene I found more appalling, only after the one where she gaslights him and takes him to task for spending time with his friends, while knowing that he knew of her affair, in a moment where he was physically unable to enter the apartment if he saw her car downside, because he couldn't stop thinking about her and her lover.

 

In this case, what he told her was completely true, he only told his brother because the latter felt guilty about asking him to stay in a job he hated: it was in the context of him reassuring him about their mother's funeral. The rest of the friends and his mother learned about it from his brothers and other people in his group, the same way YH did. In any case, he knew the other candidate was supported by her lover, and was by his own admission worried the latter would do something crazy. Plus, he had confirmed that she had betrayed his trust with regards to the bribe issue, when he came to her for help.

 

And as per the confrontation on the rooftop, it was not exactly clear whether she had completely cut off communication with the guy (they would in fact meet again later on to discuss YJ knowing about DH's knowledge of the affair). On the other hand, she knew she had had an affair with his worst enemy, his adversary in this fight, and had betrayed DH regarding the bribe issue, even attempting to manipulate him into quitting his job (and financing with debt and a mortage on the house a new business that, given she would divorce him after he quit his job and DH was already borderline suicidal, would have seen him emotionally shattered right when he needed to focus on the startup phase, ending in an obvious disaster).

 

It was really a moment where I wished he would have told her: interesting... don't you have something important that you are not telling me that you want to reveal, as well? Blatant hypocrisy on her part here, thankfully it's something that she regretted in her flashback in the car, so the fact that she was accusing him of something she was a billion times more guilty of, while he (and she) knew very well that she had already violated his trust, and thus factually speaking did not deserve him to trust her with such a piece of information, was fully acknowledged.

 

 

 

On 1/17/2022 at 11:37 PM, the_sweetroad said:

EPISODE 9 (2)

Ji An and Yoon Hee meet at the Minette.

 

Yoon Hee: The money Joon Young said he would give you, I’ll give it to you. Just quietly quit your job at that company. I can make sure Joon Young won’t find you.

 

Ji An: Then Do Joon Young will find someone else to get Park Dong Hoon fired.

 

Yoon Hee: He can get fired. Even if I wasn’t a problem, once he was nominated for managing director, they would have fought it out, and one of them would have been fired. Whoever wins or not, let it happen, and you stay out of it. Structural engineers can get fired, but they won’t have any trouble making a living.

 

Ji An: So you’re thinking about staying with him.

 

Yoon Hee: Whether we stay together or not, it’s not your concern, so you just quietly disappear. It’s unpleasant. That someone knows about my embarrassment is unpleasant and that you are working at the same company as Dong Hoon is also unpleasant. (She goes on to say, "You recorded something like that and played it for me to hear? What couldn’t you do? The things you do are so ignorant and scary.")

 

Commentary: Aagh!!! Yoon Hee!! She really doesn't care if Dong Hoon keeps his job or gets fired, which I find shocking. We also see that she's saying things like "Whether we stay together or not." It is gratifying to think that by the end of the show, Yoon Hee is willing to let her "embarrassment" be exposed to everyone in order to save Ji An and to repay Dong Hoon.

 

Agree, that, and protecting DH, signal a clear move away from her self absorbed mode of operation, where deceiving and using her partner was perfectly fine for her, as long as she herself could be happy. On the other hard, one would be remiss not to note that factually speaking the one that would have to deal with hearing his subordinates and colleagues gossip about this every day would be DH: she didn't know the people at his company -who are the only one knowing this, given the CEO was arrested-, and would never meet them, whether she was in Seoul, or overseas. But I guess that in some abstract sense she is being gossiped about, despite the fact that she will never come in contact with the people talking about her behind her back herself.

 

On 1/17/2022 at 11:37 PM, the_sweetroad said:

EPISODE 10 (1)

Do Joon Young and Yoon Hee meet at the cafeteria.

 

Do Joon Young: [Sunbae] told me never to tell you that he knows. He was insistent. He told me to just break up with you quietly. That the day you find out he knows, you will never live with him again. I told him I broke up with you, and that’s what he thinks, so just pretend you know nothing, and just continue to live with him.

 

Yoon Hee: Is that possible? How much more shameless do I have to be, to do that?

 

As with the apology scene, DH should have pointed out that, given she was shameless enough to lie to his face for a year, without a shred of guilt, even when he point blank asked her about smelling like smoke, it was safe to say she would  continue to be shameless enough.

 

On 1/17/2022 at 11:37 PM, the_sweetroad said:

EPISODE 10 (2)

Restaurant owner: I thought it would go away. But this wife who came back, I hate her even more. Seeing her make an effort, it’s hateful. Whatever she does, it’s hateful. It’s about whether I endure this for three years and then divorce, or endure for ten years and then divorce. 'Unless you’ve been through it, you can’t know how it feels.' What that saying means, I only truly realized it after my wife had an affair. It was such a common story line in dramas. The world was full of married people having affairs. But once it happened to me, I couldn’t find a way to explain it. When I’m still, this is all I think about. My wife with that guy…

 

Dong Hoon: So did you sign your divorce papers today?

 

Restaurant owner: (nods) Even someone like me is still living. Your life is so much better, so why do you always look so sad?

 

Commentary: This is probably the clearest representation of what Dong Hoon is thinking and feeling at this point of the show. He has decided to endure and stay with Yoon Hee, but as we see in flashbacks when the restaurant owner says, "When I'm still, this is all I think about. My wife with that guy...." Dong Hoon also can't stop thinking about Do Joon Young sleeping with Yoon Hee. As the restaurant owner puts it, it was only inevitable he would get a divorce eventually, the question for him was just when.

 

It was a clear parallel, but I am not sure how representative it is of DH's feelings around the topic at the time of his promotion party... he tells her he would be home soon, etc.

 

On 1/17/2022 at 11:37 PM, the_sweetroad said:

EPISODE 11

Yoon Hee proposes a drink to Dong Hoon and they sit down to cans of beer. She tries to confess about the affair, but he dodges the conversation completely.

 

Commentary: In the show's symbolism, for Yoon Hee, beer means she wants to have a serious conversation. Perhaps Dong Hoon kept the soccer game on because he knew what was coming, hehe.

 

EPISODE 12 (1)

Yoon Hee has confessed about the affair at the end of Episode 11 and in this episode we're shown more details from their conversation. One important detail is that Yoon Hee hates Hugye and everyone around Dong Hoon.

 

Also:

Yoon Hee: I know that whatever I say, I can never be forgiven. 100 times, 1000 times, I know I committed a crime punishable by death….What you are most afraid of, what you want to avoid most, I know what it is. The reason you don’t want to break up this marriage isn’t because you have any affection left for me, is it?

 

(No answer from Dong Hoon)

 

Yoon Hee: `Thinking of Mother and Ji Soek, let’s live quietly together for a while.’ If you want that, I’ll do that. When you say, `I can’t do this anymore, I can’t live with you, let’s end this.’ Then I’ll do that. I will do whatever you want to do.

 

Dong Hoon: I have no intention of forcing you to live with me just to make my life easier, while giving you a hard time. But after meeting you and living with you 20 years, how I have to end this, from what point do I have to turn this over…I just don’t know. I thought I could endure this if you didn’t know that I knew. But it’s become too difficult now. For you and for me, both.

 

Commentary: As this GMS article, Bringing Our Twenty Years to an End, puts it, "in his confrontation with Yoon Hee, Dong Hoon says it himself. The question is not whether they should end their marriage, but how to end it," and "For Dong Hoon, he was never torn over ‘whether or not to divorce’ (it was already a foregone conclusion), but over how to end their relationship."

 

Here the Netflix translation is pretty different.... it says that she would be okay with staying with him or granting him a divorce if and when he asks, but does not say "stay with you for a time"... clearly, the meaning changes quite a bit (trying to make things work vs merely spending some time together in order to breach the news of the eventual divorce in a smoother fashion).

 

On 1/17/2022 at 11:37 PM, the_sweetroad said:

EPISODE 12 (2)

Yoon Hee confronts Do Joon Young on the rooftop.

 

Do Joon Young: You can’t tell Dong Hoon about her [Lee Ji An] because you’re thinking of me? You’re trying to make your marriage work somehow but if he finds out that you know about her, you think Sunbae will completely abandon you, so you can’t. You are the most cowardly one.

 

Yoon Hee: That may be true, but I’m not a piece of trash like you are. Our marriage is over anyway. Dong Hoon and I, do you know what kind of hell we’re living in? It’s hell for him to come home to a woman who had an affair with the man he despises. And it’s hell for me because I must endure his loathing. Because of you, who Dong Hoon despises so much, I’m trying to make it look as if his family didn’t break up because of you, so if he curses me, I have to take it, and if he scolds me, I have to take it. I have to accept all of his loathing until it begins to feel that we’re breaking up not because of you, but because of me. That we’re breaking up because he has no affection left for me at all. Waiting until he can see it that way, that is the last thing I can do for Dong Hoon. And this is my punishment for having ever liked someone like you, like an idiot. My punishment for having betrayed Dong Hoon.

 

Do Joon Young: Why are all the women around Park Dong Hoon like this? (Just had to throw this in here because it's too funny.)

A few minutes later, Yoon Hee calls Ji An:

Yoon Hee: You…do you really like Dong Hoon?

Ji An: Yes.

Yoon Hee: All right. Anyway, thanks. Thank you for calling me first. (Breaks down crying)

 

Commentary: If we had any doubt that Dong Hoon hated Yoon Hee as the restaurant owner had hated his wife, Yoon Hee confirms that it's true. She has to endure Dong Hoon's loathing at home, and she claims their marriage is over and they'll eventually break up because he has no affection for her at all. She wants to wait until there's enough distance from the affair with Do Joon Young so that Do Joon Young doesn't linger in their memory as the reason for the divorce. But a divorce is inevitable in her mind. So now we've heard from Dong Hoon that he's thinking about how to end things, and Yoon Hee is also thinking about when their break-up will happen.

 

The problem with this picture is that it's not representative of what we see actually happening... sure, he might hate her and be unable to forget her betrayal, but even in the apology scene, besides his outburst where he was more disappointed than anything else, he was also concerned for her and not wanting to do something that would make life difficult for her. He was also willing to curtail his visit to his brothers, and at the part he told YH that he would come home soon. He asks her whether she needs anything, which is his signature move to convey that he cares. Of course, given that the affair had just come to light, it would be unreasonable to expect him to be "okay" with the whole thing right off the bat, but I would say that it's unclear to me whether he still is in the same frame of mind by the end. He could still be unable to forgive her, thought, particularly after the public humiliation at the office things might have become unsustainable. I must say that, factually speaking, JY was his enemy, while she was his wife... I am sure that in terms of the one he holds responsible for the whole mess, she would already be in first place, because she was not coerced into this, and she was the one about which he had expectations, while he had never expected anything better from her lover.

 

 

On 1/17/2022 at 11:37 PM, the_sweetroad said:

A breadcrumb here is what Do Joon Young says about Dong Hoon abandoning Yoon Hee once he finds out Yoon Hee knows Ji An.

EPISODE 15

Dong Hoon visits Yoon Hee in her home office after finding out that Ji An is on the run.

 

Yoon Hee: It’s all right, feel free to tell me. I’ll do whatever you want, whenever you want.

 

Dong Hoon: Do you know Lee Ji An?

 

Yoon Hee: One day, Joon Young sent me a resume. He wanted me to look into her. I found out later what she was doing for him. She was the one who let me know what kind of person Joon Young was. That girl…she tried to send me back to you. But I found out, by intuition, that she liked you. I broke up with Joon Young and told her to quit her job at the company. I didn’t like that she knew of my embarrassment and that she would be near you. It made me apprehensive. I offered to give her the money that Joon Young agreed to give her. She refused it. She said that if she left, Joon Young would get someone else to get you fired. She was doing all she could to protect you. And I found that even more agonizing. It made me want to die.

 

Dong Hoon tells her Ji An is on the run, and will stay on the run.

 

Dong Hoon: Because if she did get caught, she would have to tell everything. How it all began…and the situation between you and Joon Young. She knows what would make things most difficult for me. She knows.

 

Yoon Hee: Let’s tell, Honey. Let’s tell everything. We can’t let her continue to run away. Let’s tell everything, Honey. I’m sorry. I’m really sorry that I’ve made things this way.

 

Commentary: Dong Hoon now knows that Yoon Hee knew Ji An, and about what Ji An was doing, and didn't tell him. Based on what Do Joon Young said earlier, it follows that Dong Hoon will feel even more betrayed and Yoon Hee will think Dong Hoon has even more reason to divorce her.

 

An aside: The word "know" comes up again here. In Episode 12, Yoon Hee said she knew why Dong Hoon didn't want to break up the marriage, because he wanted to stay in it for the sake of omma and Ji Seok. And Dong Hoon here says that Ji An knows that exposing the affair would make things most difficult for him. Both women know him.

 

I read the ep 12 bit as saying that he didn't want to expose this to his son and mother, which they didn't even at the end (nor is there a reason to). He wanted to salvage the relationship (frankly, the insistence that he didn't care about her seems, in this context, more like some attempt at convincing herself to make herself feel less guilty -her betrayal hurting him less if he didn't care about her?-.

 

On 1/17/2022 at 11:37 PM, the_sweetroad said:

 

EPISODE 16 (1)

Yoon Hee and Ji An are at the police station.

 

Yoon Hee: Why did you erase the recordings that were saved in your phone?

 

Ji An: Because they contained stuff about you, too, ahjumma. The stuff that will be most difficult for ahjussi to deal with.

 

Later:

 

Yoon Hee: Are you punishing me?

 

Ji An: Why did you cheat on him? I was just curious. Why would you cheat on someone like ahjussi?

 

Yoon Hee: I can give you 100, 1000 reasons. But I don't know if there is a real reason among them.

 

Commentary: Yoon Hee realizes that Ji An really does know Dong Hoon and the things that will be "most difficult" for him. Also, in Episode 12 she says, "100 times, 1000 times, I know I committed a crime punishable by death." Here she says she had 100, 1000 reasons for cheating on him. I haven't thought much about this, but this hyperbole seems to say that Yoon Hee knows she couldn't have stayed with Dong Hoon, and she feels she really did commit a devastating crime against Dong Hoon.

 

I think that here the key word is "no real reason": he is basically saying (in a parallel with the previous scene with her lover, where she was trying not very successfully to come up with excuses for the affair) that she could come up with a thousand excuses/rationalizations for the affair, but she had no true/real reason to give. Meaning that she understand that she didn't have any reason to violate his trust in such a manner as opposed to, say, divorce him. In that respect, her lover was divorced, her sister in law -who was even closer to her mother in law and had kids of her own- was about to divorce DH's brother, her son was okay with his uncle being separated, DH himself would have like her to divorce him if he couldn't make her happy, she herself was ready to divorce, and willing to let DH do it after the apology -thought she didn't reveal the affair or divorce him after breaking up with her lover and before learning DH knew-. All in all, being a lawyer, etc. she was certainly in a much more privileged position than anyone else, certainly than her sister in law, with regards to this matter, so, as DH correctly pointed out, her asking for a divorce instead was definitely not too much to ask.

 

On 1/17/2022 at 11:37 PM, the_sweetroad said:

EPISODE 16 (2)

Yoon Hee asks Dong Hoon to bring home beer. The next scene is Dong Hoon visiting omma and Ki Hoon at home.

 

Omma: You took daughter-in-law to the airport?

 

Dong Hoon: Yes.

 

Omma: When is she coming back?

 

Dong Hoon: The week after the next.

 

Omma: Why is she there for so long?

 

Dong Hoon: While she's there, she's also going to look into her own school.

 

Omma: She's going to study again? For what? It's right for her to be there to take care of Ji Seok. But just to educate a child, leaving the child's father alone like this isn't right either.

 

Ki Hoon: Hyung, come in to live with us as well.

 

Omma: What are you saying! (slaps Ki Hoon)

 

Commentary: Ki Hoon knows what's up.

 

EPISODE 16 (3)

The family picture of Yoon Hee, Ji Seok, and Dong Hoon is gone from his new office. Three photos of Yoon Hee and Ji Seok are shown, as well as one of the three brothers on their getaway trip.

 

Dong Hoon calls Yoon Hee "ae omma" when talking to his acquaintance at the cafe.

 

Commentary: Dong Hoon is so relaxed and open after the time skip, for one.

 

Here it’s the contrasts that matter - previously there had been a picture of the family, and now there are three photos of Yoon Hee and Ji Seok in America. This seems to firmly establish that Dong Hoon and Yoon Hee are no longer a couple (since they're not shown together at all on his desk), as well as Yoon Hee's continued presence in America.

 

Frankly, here it's clearly a case of the show being willingly ambiguous. Showing him and the kid would have meant he had divorced. Showing the three together would mean they are together. They showed the kid and the wife, which left things in the middle (and was strange... do they never visit? Does he never visit them?).

 

On 1/17/2022 at 11:37 PM, the_sweetroad said:

Additionally, previously he had called Yoon Hee "chib saram" all through the show:

Episode 2 as a contact in his phone

Episode 10 when he tells the other directors he's ready to go for the promotion and help his wife earn money

Episode 15 when he tells Ji An his wife will help her at the police station, and that his wife talked in his phone to Ji An.

Episode 16 when he's at omma's house and he tells Sang Hoon he's waiting for his wife to call.

 

So to call her "ae omma" now is an important contrast. Personally I don't think Dong Hoon would have naturally, comfortably called Yoon Hee "ae omma" if they were still married-but-separated. If they were still married-but-separated, knowing him he would've called her "chib saram" until he died. The fact that "ae omma" rolls off his tongue in the coffee shop while talking to an acquaintance means that it's been a while since he started calling Yoon Hee that. Which, to me, means they're divorced....and have been for a while.

 

One last clue: in the final voiceover, Dong Hoon says "Ji An" instead of "Ji An-ssi". I don't think Dong Hoon would have ever allowed himself to address Ji An in that intimate way if he were still married.

 

 

Frankly, given that his wife had broken their vow, I don't think he owes her any more than she herself was willing to give her, so I would have found nothing wrong in him pursuing a relationship regardless. But I sure hope that they are separated, so he can rebuild his life. The ambiguity  was exactly what I disliked about the finale, because living separated from his wife while at the same time being still tied to her and unable to pursue his own happiness in a romantic sense would be the worst of both worlds.

 

On 1/17/2022 at 11:37 PM, the_sweetroad said:

There is no exaggeration when DH said it all felt like YH wanted him dead. I have friends ask me if that is what a man really feels when cheated upon. I’d say probably not. For me it’s not just about YH’s infidelity, it was the entire picture I described above that aggravated the situation.

 

To have people still think such a scenario is salvageable is beyond me. But that’s because the show had made the gravity of the entire situation subtle, and shown in little snippets scattered throughout the show.

 

 

I would say that the fact that he was someone that demote and had him humiliated by his goon (and he himself did stuff like ghosting him while he bowed, or had him pour him alcohol like a servant), and wanted to fire him (which was not a deal breaker for her... 20 years and a kid together, so much for priorities) certainly didn't help, but in addition to that there was also the fact that she betrayed him and ratted him out, spying on him, when he went to ask her help for the bribe situation (asking her for an investigator, and being told to just wait -it was only his job on the line, and his ability to eventually help the rest of his family that was financially dependent on him until basically yesterday, now having just opened a new business-).

 

That's something that he asked her lover about during their confrontation, and the fact she was willing to self servingly get him out of a job struck him as a betrayal (let's also realize that success in the future cannot be used to predict success in the past: in the future he has the money and experience of having been a managing director, plus the contacts and the knowledge that his family is not financially dependent on him, and the confidence... in the past, his boss would have certainly not given him references after firing him, or having him leave, given he had beet trying to suppress him until now, and was if anything much more likely to mess with him as he tried to start up his new business).

 

He didn't know about what she told JA, that since she was no longer the reason for the conflict she didn't care whether he even kept his job. But between her ratting him out to her lover regarding the bribe, and her sudden interest in him quitting his job -which started right after the incident, and ended when she broke things off with her lover-, he was able to do two plus two.

 

Factually speaking, she betrayed him with someone that knee-capped him as he was the ace of the design team, and was on the path towards being promoted. Someone that she knew he hated, and she knew was the cause of his daily humiliations (a fact she used to manipulate him into quitting his job). And was willing to risk him ending up in debt with a mortage on the house. When his brother's business failed, and he has the examples of the other people in the neighborhood -directors of pharma companies, bankers, etc.- that struggled with work after losing their prestigious jobs (and if he was actually fired for something like a scandal or bribe, good luck finding another company that would hire him).

 

In short, I would say it was the whole context that made him tell her that she was essentially telling him to just go die. In addition to the key fact that she knew he was suffering terribly, and he himself was borderline suicidally depressed. By his own admission, preferring not to have been born, and living only because he had to.

 

On 1/17/2022 at 11:37 PM, the_sweetroad said:

Other meta-insights from the excellent Give Me Slippers post, Dong Hoon and Yoon Hee: Did They Divorce or Not?

 

Yoon Hee doesn’t have photos of DH on her office desk or her home desk.

Both Dong Hoon and Yoon Hee feel stuffy and trapped in their marriage, and have to open the windows to their apartment for some relief. Besides the examples cited in this GMS post, one more scene is right after Yoon Hee calls Dong Hoon and says that Ki Hoon was there and knows about the affair. Yoon Hee runs to the window, opens it, and closes her eyes as the breeze comes in.

 

This was always something I felt we were reading too much into. They merely wanted to breathe because they felt suffocated by the overwhelming situation. In terms of YH, I would say that more than suffocated by the marriage, it was the exact contrary: she wanted him to be with her as much as possible, even after she knew that he knew of the affair: consider the way she took him to task about spending time with his friends and nitpicked his offer to spend less time with his brothers. Now, this was irksome and unacceptable to me (he had to turn around when he saw her car parked downstairs because he couldn't get her and her lover out of his head, and knowing he knew, she should have understood this basic need for some space), however this clearly signaled to me "I want to spend more time with your" not "spending time with you is suffocating me"... I would say that this holds true for DH, though (which is why he had to physically turn around and not enter the apartment, "escaping" at the bar and in the streets)... but again, he was the fisrt (and only one) to actually offer to meet her half way in that circumstance, so it's clear that he was willing to make an attempt.

 

On 1/17/2022 at 11:37 PM, the_sweetroad said:

Dong Hoon and Yoon Hee have completely different values as far as family (as symbolized by her choice of coffee vs his choice of tea). Yoon Hee wants all of Dong Hoon’s attention and wants to be his top priority. But Dong Hoon feels he needs to be available for his family and friends.

 

That's certainly true.

 

On 1/17/2022 at 11:37 PM, the_sweetroad said:

 

DIVORCE LAWS:

I read that in Korea, if a divorce is mutually agreed upon then the couple can proceed. However, if it's a "disputed divorce" then a trial is needed. And - important point - if you are the cheating spouse, you are not allowed to take your spouse to trial. It has to be the scorned spouse that files for a divorce in that case. (Hopefully a native Korean can correct me if I'm wrong.) My understanding is that Dong Hoon would have to agree to a divorce or take Yoon Hee to court; she could never free herself unless Dong Hoon agreed.

 

I believe this plays into the story, because in the end it would still have to be Dong Hoon saying "Yes, let's divorce, let's take that step." He would have to decisively act. As Yoon Hee said in the beginning of Episode 12 and in the beginning of Episdoe 15, she was always ready to do what Dong Hoon wanted her to do, whether to stay with him for the sake of his family or break up. Her deferring to him makes sense if we think that she wasn't able to file for divorce without him. So I believe Dong Hoon finally spoke up and freed both of them in the end.

 

 

I actually don't think that YH was the one that asked for the separation/divorce, because the show made her commit not once but twice to waiting for DH to process the situation, giving him time to make a decision. I surely hope that this was not a return to some self absorbed antic where she destroyed his life, publicly humiliating him, and then run away, leaving him completely alone to pick up the pieces. I prefer to think that he actually realized that his monk was right, that he had every right to prioritize his own happiness (which does not mean deceiving or using his partner, like she did -though, given she had cheated on him, breaking their vow, and that he really doesn't owe her any more or less than what she is willing to give, I wouldn't have considered him pursuing an actual relationship "cheating", or in any case I would have been okay with such an occurrence had it happened-), and that he was the one prompting the decision to separate.

[sadiesmith]

@africandramalover

Park Hae Young writer was interviewed to discuss her recently concluded drama My Liberation Notes. She spent a great deal of time talking about My Mister, too. Does anyone know what it means for someone to be a "convergent type?"

https://www.asiae.co.kr/article/book/2022061607162323944

 

 

-Many people choose 'My Mister' as the drama of their lives. 4 years after the end of the drama, there are a lot of people who feel the lingering feeling.

▲At that time, I felt a sense of relief that we didn't do anything stupid, and a quiet sense of solidarity with the 200 staff members I've never seen since the end. The 'My Mister' team did not show any discrepancies or leaks in a single person. We all seemed to know where this drama had to go and how it was made. The result was good because it was such a well-matched team, and I think it may be the talk of the day.

湲 蹂肄

 

- Received worldwide acclaim, including director Hirokazu Kore-eda and writer Paulo Coelho. In particular, director Hirokazu Koreeda was fascinated by Lee Ji-an (Lee Ji-eun, IU) in the play, and even selected him as the main character in his movie 'The Broker'.

▲ As a writer, I feel very good. However, I think it would be more appropriate for the director or actors to answer this question rather than me.

 

湲 蹂肄

 

-The script book of 'My Mister' also gained great popularity. Breaking the conventional wisdom that women in their 20s and 30s liked the script book, the proportion of male buyers was high.

▲My uncle heard that a lot of men who didn't watch dramas watched it. I think that might have been why he even bought the script book. Presumably, if many male protagonists in the drama were divergent, it might be because Park Dong-Hoon (Lee Seon-Kyun) was a convergent type. Maybe he was looked at by men with the same converging type.

 

-There are many people who wonder, 'What kind of experience do I have to write this kind of writing?' It may be a misunderstanding, but I think there must have been a lot of painful experiences.

▲ There are many people who think that they will write because they have some kind of pain and a unique experience, but that is not the case. I also thought that the writers would be something different, but when I became a writer and saw my fellow seniors and juniors, it was no different. I was disappointed for a moment, but I was relieved immediately. There seems to be one characteristic of those who write good articles. It is said that there is 'love for human beings'... .

 

-I'm curious about the labor pains to disband the gem-like lines.

▲ Humans are one species, so I capture the characters in a way that satisfies my thirst under the assumption that my thirst will be the thirst of the public. There was such an article in the planning intention of 'My Mister'. "It's not noisy, but people who are deeply rooted in the roots of humanity. I want to be moved by such clear people. I think I wanted to portray the warmth of an ordinary human being. Rather than drawing out lines in pain, I think the expression of being possessed by a character and drawing it out is correct.

 

-Both the lines and characters are like children, but there are bound to be children who have special feelings for them. Are there any lines or characters like that?

▲ Characters that don't end well in the play are the ones I care about the most. Actors who are villains do not know how hard they try to bring out evil from within. After acting like that, you have to drink soju and go to sleep. When the play ends with the villain just being the villain, I feel very sorry for the actor who played that role. So the mind is used.

 

-There is a nominal protagonist, but all the characters feel like the protagonist. It is interesting to read their lives in various ways. Is it something you paid special attention to?

▲Once you appear, you have to live your life in the play. As this is written for the purpose of making a video, it seems that there is an actor who is acting, and since he is a person who has his own world, there seems to be a thought that he should be treated humanely. If you don't build the character properly, you won't be able to see the actor's face at the end party. I'm sorry.

 

-What do you remember most about the drama writing and production process?

▲ I felt protected the whole time I was writing it. I didn't let anyone touch me, and I just kept writing quietly. Even one day, a senior writer on the phone said, "Is there something like that in the team?" But it was the first time I heard it. It seemed that bad things didn't come to my ears at all. Thank you.

 

-Introduce the most memorable reaction or feedback you were satisfied with.

▲ During the viewing experience after the last broadcast of 'My Mister', I saw an article saying that he wanted to give the writer some money (30,000 won) because he was so grateful. He was so sincere, I wanted to visit him and receive him. I wanted to receive 30,000 won because I wanted to let you know that I received your thanks.

[dongans]

On 6/22/2022 at 6:30 PM, matrice said:

In terms of YH, I would say that more than suffocated by the marriage, it was the exact contrary: she wanted him to be with her as much as possible, even after she knew that he knew of the affair: consider the way she took him to task about spending time with his friends and nitpicked his offer to spend less time with his brothers.

 

Idk man, if she wanted that, she would probably make an effort. she was making an effort to be with DJY, she was always spending time at that hotel with him, and working there until very late.
But I do believe that she tried with DH in the past. She verbalizing that after the affair for me, is just a person that is hurt somehow. but in the past, because they drift apart, both of them made an effort for different people in the present.

 

When she says to JA that she was able to make DH do things that he never made for her (at ep15-16), for me, she was hurt (but not that "fresh" feeling, a sadder one, because they are not a good match and they lost their timing and she knows it).

Edited June 24, 2022 by dongans

[sweetroad]

On 6/19/2022 at 9:14 PM, dongans said:

I remembered a phrase in "My Liberation Notes", Ep8, where Mijeong said: "you can do anything in front of someone who likes you" (in a romantic way) and I instantly remembered DH saying to JA that "if you get to know a person, if you get to know them, nothing they do bothers you. And I know you."

 

I thought this same thing during that episode! Indeed PHY seems to have some themes that cross from MM to MLN, which is nice to see and lends more insight into MM and her view of love.

 

Another moment I found very interesting was in Ep 1 of MLN, when Chang Hee complains to his girlfriend while they're breaking up, "Saying 'I miss you' in the middle of the night is the same as saying 'I love you'."

 

10 hours ago, sadiesmith said:

Park Hae Young writer was interviewed to discuss her recently concluded drama My Liberation Notes. She spent a great deal of time talking about My Mister, too. Does anyone know what it means for someone to be a "convergent type?"

 

Thanks for this interview. She seems to be quite the studier of human nature (being able to write about painful situations without having had to go through them herself), and I like how she tries to honor the actors/actresses and their work.

 

And it was good to learn something new! "Convergent thinking focuses on finding one well-defined solution to a problem. Divergent thinking is the opposite of convergent thinking and involves more creativity."

 

https://asana.com/resources/convergent-vs-divergent

 

This article is about divergent vs convergent thinking, but I'm curious if you saw anything else online about divergent vs convergent types?

[Pixaiated]

On 6/24/2022 at 2:54 PM, sadiesmith said:

Park Hae Young writer was interviewed to discuss her recently concluded drama My Liberation Notes. She spent a great deal of time talking about My Mister, too. Does anyone know what it means for someone to be a "convergent type?"

https://www.asiae.co.kr/article/book/2022061607162323944

 

Thanks so much for sharing the interview. I love Park Hae-Yong's writing and think it's one of the biggest reasons why My Mister is the masterpiece it is, so hearing more from her is great. Times like this make me wish I understood Korean though

 

On 6/25/2022 at 1:29 AM, the_sweetroad said:

 

I thought this same thing during that episode! Indeed PHY seems to have some themes that cross from MM to MLN, which is nice to see and lends more insight into MM and her view of love.

 

Another moment I found very interesting was in Ep 1 of MLN, when Chang Hee complains to his girlfriend while they're breaking up, "Saying 'I miss you' in the middle of the night is the same as saying 'I love you'."

 

 

Thanks for this interview. She seems to be quite the studier of human nature (being able to write about painful situations without having had to go through them herself), and I like how she tries to honor the actors/actresses and their work.

 

And it was good to learn something new! "Convergent thinking focuses on finding one well-defined solution to a problem. Divergent thinking is the opposite of convergent thinking and involves more creativity."

 

https://asana.com/resources/convergent-vs-divergent

 

This article is about divergent vs convergent thinking, but I'm curious if you saw anything else online about divergent vs convergent types?

 

While the article about convergent v divergent thinking is interesting, I don't think that this is the concept that PHY is referring to in her interview - doesn't really make much sense given the context in my opinion. Not that I have any better answers as to what she is referring to unfortunately. Might be a poor translation by google, we probably need a Korean speaker to better understand what she is referring to.