[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] The Rise of Phoenixes 凰权·弈天下

[moochiball]

7 hours ago, yunmo19 said:

 

My take on NY: 

 

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NY is smart, for all intents and purposes, but it doesn't necessarily mean he also has to be level-headed, alway thinks through every scenario and set up everything etc. He's also brash, intuitive and somewhat of a risk taker, especially when it hits too close to home (like when it involves his mother or FZW). Sometimes he doesn't plan, he just goes with it - remember when he talked with Xin Ziyan in the first episode about he doesn't have a plan to take down the Crown Prince? And when he decided to trust Gu Yan whose loyalty he couldn't be sure of? And  when he passed the poisoned ring to Zhao Yuan and later said he had no idea what his action could have caused? This side of his personality also showed up in another aspect of NY - he's actually rather prone to 'flipping the gameboard' (for lack of a better word). It's a common pattern in his actions that you will see in crucial moments near the end. 

 

 

'his actually rather prone to flipping the game board' - yes, you're totally right!

 

ep 55ish (DVD version) spoiler:

Spoiler

That makes a lot of sense and I am just realising right now how often he turns the table around and changes the 'board game' many times, whether it's for good or for bad. I guess that is why the emperor said that NY is the one that could stir up a storm and change the dynamics of things inside the palace. It's as if he makes decisions with his heart and not his head.

 

The incident with his mum was a major flip for me. It placed all those who supported him and is waiting for backup help from him in a dangerous position - like the issue with ZiYan trying to get information so that he could overthrow the 7th prince. I'm still wondering if it was all in NY's plan to get back the emperor's trust or was he really intending to live a peaceful life with his mum. The happiness was so short-lived and his so unpredictable that i'm not completely sure what he was thinking. 

 

[yunmo19]

6 hours ago, moochiball said:

 

'his actually rather prone to flipping the game board' - yes, you're totally right!

 

ep 55ish (DVD version) spoiler:

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That makes a lot of sense and I am just realising right now how often he turns the table around and changes the 'board game' many times, whether it's for good or for bad. I guess that is why the emperor said that NY is the one that could stir up a storm and change the dynamics of things inside the palace. It's as if he makes decisions with his heart and not his head.

 

The incident with his mum was a major flip for me. It placed all those who supported him and is waiting for backup help from him in a dangerous position - like the issue with ZiYan trying to get information so that he could overthrow the 7th prince. I'm still wondering if it was all in NY's plan to get back the emperor's trust or was he really intending to live a peaceful life with his mum. The happiness was so short-lived and his so unpredictable that i'm not completely sure what he was thinking. 

 

 

Spoiler

Yes, it seemed a lot of people blamed NY with that decision, but for me it was pretty consistent with his personality and how he operates at that point. I will not say it was not the best idea, but I could see where he came from. IMO NY's decision, though irrational it first seems, was the lesser of the two devils: 

- From the moment he knew his mother was alive and kept in custody by his father, NY was already fighting a battle he couldn't win, since there's no way NY could have fought his father when his mother was a hostage. Keeping family members of your enemies hostage to destroy their morale is not an unheard-of strategy in warfare, and NSZ IS the kind of man who would do that.

-  As for his supporters, I think they were not in open opposition against the Emperor at that point ? On the surface they were more like his 'escorts'. But NY already dismissed them before his abdication so they were no longer his men, so I assume the Emperor does not have any reason to accuse them of treason. 

- And in hindsight, if NY went head to head with the Emperor, the one who has the last laugh would be the Fire phoenix rebels. NY threw a big wrench into their plan by not going ahead with the rebellion.

- When he made this decision, I think NY really intended to live with his mom. However, keep in mind that he was also being pretty avoidant at this point. When his mom asked what he planned to do, he said he had a long time ahead of him to think about it, but he couldn't see her in the eyes when she told him to (essentially) man up and not lose sight of his goal. I agree that it was a pretty low point for NY (weak script, or some waters at Jin Siyu's residence went to his brains ), but to be fair NY was not in the best state of mind - he just lost FZW and I don't think he wants to lose his mom as well. It was a heartbreaking situation for both NY and XZY who had so much trust in him. 

 

[staygold]

Halfway through ep 15! Omg what a twist! I did not see that coming!

 

They built up so much empathy for the Emperor only for this! That was neatly done. Amazing writing! I don't trust anybody anymore in this story!

 

What is the emperor's eunuch up to! They keep showing him adding stuff to his tea/medicine!

[pristineqi]

This is the RIGHT ENDING!

 

https://ninja-reflection.com/2018/09/24/rise-phoenixes-novel-ending/#comment-2048

 

 

[moochiball]

@pristineqi OMG. That ending is sooooooo much better  . Why did they change it WHY....

See, I'll remember this ending for years to come in bliss. The other one makes me don't want to remember anything because it burns when I think about it  . I am just going to pretend this is how it plays out  

 

[zenya22]

Episode 30: I am in awe of the actor playing Ning Yi, he is phenomenal. Not that the other actors are not, because they are all so utterly good. The interpretation of this actor of character of Ning Yi though, I can appreciate the nuances of the character's personality and definitely his mindset. And their, I think is the difference between Ning Yi and the Chang princes.

 

Spoiler

The way NY laughs at Concubine Chang, mother of Ning Shen, when she confronts him at the Fuyen palace doors.  When she states how dare Ning Yi threaten her and opens her veil to show her face, NY starts laughing in her face and even the eunuch who came to announce that NY was wanted in the palace, starts snickering. Before he entered the palace doors, he then changed into this coldly sober and angry Prince Ning Yi who says to the concubine in a voice scarier in it's softness "I may not have a choice in my fate but I definitely will decide the way I die. Does Ning Shen, have a choice?" he then half unsheaths then sheaths the sword of the guard standing nearby and looks into the concubine's face with the expression "remember that" and turns around to go inside the palace. Ning Shen Prince of Yan, with his shenanigans made a donkey of himself and an embarassment of his family and all the royals. He meant to implicate NY but instead implicated himself. He is no match for NY and his special scholar ZW. 

 

Life, they say is the best teacher, experience depending on how one interprets it, can alter destinies. The Changs view themselves as the priveleged and entitled ones. On the other hand they view people as objects of ownership to order/command according to their will to benefit themselves, and woe to those who disobey. Their greed for absolute power and fortune is unquenchable. They steal, they  kill, they lie and frame others to take the blame. Their mentality never grew from the base instincts of fight or flight, kill or be killed, eat or be eaten. And they seem not to know any other way to live or behave. 

 

Prince of Chu led a difficult life from childhood and had to overcome many hardships to get to where he is and is perceived by others who don't know him, especially his entitled brothers as pitiful and useless, but it maybe that compared to his brothers who lived the life in royal luxury, that actually, Ning Yi Prince of Chu is the luckiest one. After he was told that his mother died, was made a scapegoat, his older brother and protector was killed, he was "imprisoned" under house arrest at the Zhong Zheng temple for 8 years. And their began his real education. He had to create a vision and a mission inorder to survive and living simply and unobserved in that temple gave him the life education that he needed to fulfill his destiny. He became a weaver and through the art of weaving he learned the creation and appreciation of beauty in the weaving of the silk brocade. He learned to make business out of it by selling the silk to make money to support himself and the others who lived with him, learned the groundwork in structuring and managing a business and networking with people whom could give him information about the outside world. He learned humility in dealing with people yet at the same time used his title and authority to remind others of who he is, a royal prince, when necessary. He learned to appreciate people for who they are and in return he earned their trust and loyalty. His 8 years of confinement at the temple was a time well spent. He grew up to be a man with a keen, deeply perceptive, secure and flexible mind. He has the uncanny ability to read people therefore chose wisely his associations and advisors. That gives him the edge. His brothers are the easiest for him to read because they have the same base mentality..... greed. 

 

[ForgottenSoulx]

Spoiler

I was hyped for this but investing for one of the leads to dies just seems hard to me. 

 

[maplinh]

Like I love this show, but do you gotta spend a whole 15 minutes (1/3 of the ep) on one conversation?

 

[tendrilsofwind]

14 hours ago, maplinh said:

Like I love this show, but do you gotta spend a whole 15 minutes (1/3 of the ep) on one conversation?

 

 

That's actually one of my favorite parts , but I get why some people would dislike it. 

[Yinye]

I'm on episode 11 and so far the pacing is much slower than I thought (def. when compared to the novel too) but I am enjoying. Have to pay full attention for all the little things in the conversations and subtle gestures. 

[yunmo19]

Quote

That's actually one of my favorite parts , but I get why some people would dislike it. 

 

Second that. It's those long-winded conversations that I miss when the series reaches the end.They offered pretty good psychological exploration into the mindset of the characters and fleshed them out pretty well, esp. the one between the princes and their retainers. If only the characters themselves were more interesting, perhaps it would not put off so many people 

[skibbies]

9 hours ago, stella77 said:

I'm on episode 11 and so far the pacing is much slower than I thought (def. when compared to the novel too) but I am enjoying. Have to pay full attention for all the little things in the conversations and subtle gestures. 

I've been constantly worried about the initial pacing when recommending to people too, since it was otp interaction + Xin ZhiYan and the novel's influence that pulled me through the slower bits.

 

While I do like the subtle implications, and things left half said, I think the massive chunk of dialogue definitely could have been improved. IDK I always feel like the core of the story is fine but there's just something off about the storytelling, it could have been much more engaging.

[fi4ar]

In the screenshot of the scriptwriter's answers. Can anyone translate the text from Chinese? Under spoilers. 

Taken with a weibo.

Spoiler

 

 

 

[fi4ar]

7 minutes ago, fi4ar said:

In the screenshot of the scriptwriter's answers. Can anyone translate the text from Chinese? Under spoilers. 

Taken with a weibo.

https://m.weibo.cn/status/4288988443672599

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[yunmo19]

Though I don't get everything she said, there's actually not much we do not already know. If you're curious I will put up another summary of her points later.

[joyblack4]

This is awesome  drama of the year ,yet,with all the hard work of this writer he forget to make it happy ending,hmm,it is a pity that a brilliant writing like this end up this,i don't know why the writer did not make good use of romance between Prince chu,and Zhi wei when they  have same dream yet Zhi Wei mother who suffered raising her daughter for one day  to regain her father kingdom found opportunity and her mother make her to swear stupid oat never to grab  the opportunity steering at her ,i was wondering if this woman think that small army of hers she has hidden will equal a match to well equipped army to unsit the present king.she just like her son who is not useful,i wonder when she was planning to challenge the present king until when she is 99years old?the present king who is brilliant,using his children as a pawn to find the best among them,watching them  fight each other,doesn't mind if he execute all his children for been foolish and greedy.oh well ,my AB tells me Zhi Wei mother dream could never in a million years come true,because the opportunity that heaven opened up for her dream to come true was prince chu ,then again she refused it.

Other fault i have with this  writer was from the beginning when the writer didn't go through with marriage between Zhi Wei and Prince Chu ,it was a bad idea for not following through with the  script ,the story was very good,but the sweetness of the revenge was bitter sweet.

[skibbies]

@joyblack4 I have lots of issues with the script but not the same kind as you. What opportunity did you think Ning Yi offer? To Qiu Ming Ying, the Ning family murdered her husband, killed the royal family and effectively destroyed her country. Marrying Ning Yi is not an opportunity at all. please don't tell me you think their kids inheriting the throne means she got Da Chen back, no that's not how this work.The kid would have the last name Ning, it's a patriarchal society, he'd represent the Ning kingdom. Mum also deliberately raised her kids to be the way they are for a reason, Feng Hao is not useless because she's bad at teaching her kids, since Zhi Wei turned out pretty well. The story never quite tell us how many people were in their scheme, it's implied to be bigger than what you see near the beginning of the drama.

 

The current emperor is smart, but we never actually see  if he's actually a good emperor, because the drama spent almost all of its focus on power struggle, not politics that concern regular people. He actually had relatively little power on the whole. He said so in the first episode, most of the court lean towards the Chang family.one. If the country is doing well, his subordinates are probably doing a good job.

 

Fake marriage going through would be very...anti this drama. Ning Yi had very little power at the beginning, he couldn't really protect anyone. Marrying the guy is like step 1 to dying. Can we also talk about the fact you are not supposed to lie to the emperor? It's also a fast track to getting yourself killed? He specifically appointed Ning Yi to marry Qiu Yu Luo, getting someone else to take her place is worse than just lying too.

[joyblack4]

@skibbies,well,we can't see things same,it is a natural way of life,sometimes people have different opinions on what they are seeing and how they see it.this is a struggle of power,when you are into power you have to do everything you can to win,you forget Prince chu mother was also killed by his father,for now,as far as i have watched,Prince chu has nothing to do with Zhi Wei family been wipe out,why will you hate someone who has no hand in your family death?if the writer think zhi wei mother was right,the writer could have not have Zhi Wei and Prince to fall in love,i have watch so many dramas especially korean drama,were the male lead father murder the female lead both parents but still the female lead never place blame ,the death of her parents on the male lead"The title of one of them as far as i can remember is come and hug me"if you think there is other way for her to win back her father's kingdom without going into marriage with Prince chu,please feel free to quote the synopsis how she could achieve that.

It was not just the present king that betrayed Zhi Wei father,he was also betrayed by people around him, as for me the only synopsis i can come up with, why her father kingdom was taking away from him ,he was not vigilant to secure himself and his family,kings always have enemies ,he could have been very watchful for his enemies plus people around,and take care of them appropriately,just like the way Prince chu is taking care of business now.right from the beginning of time , the world still now ,whether you are a president or a king people will always come after you .power is like a chess of game,the winner take it all.

[tendrilsofwind]

12 hours ago, joyblack4 said:

@skibbies,well,we can't see things same,it is a natural way of life,sometimes people have different opinions on what they are seeing and how they see it.this is a struggle of power,when you are into power you have to do everything you can to win,you forget Prince chu mother was also killed by his father,for now,as far as i have watched,Prince chu has nothing to do with Zhi Wei family been wipe out,why will you hate someone who has no hand in your family death?if the writer think zhi wei mother was right,the writer could have not have Zhi Wei and Prince to fall in love,i have watch so many dramas especially korean drama,were the male lead father murder the female lead both parents but still the female lead never place blame ,the death of her parents on the male lead"The title of one of them as far as i can remember is come and hug me"if you think there is other way for her to win back her father's kingdom without going into marriage with Prince chu,please feel free to quote the synopsis how she could achieve that.

It was not just the present king that betrayed Zhi Wei father,he was also betrayed by people around him, as for me the only synopsis i can come up with, why her father kingdom was taking away from him ,he was not vigilant to secure himself and his family,kings always have enemies ,he could have been very watchful for his enemies plus people around,and take care of them appropriately,just like the way Prince chu is taking care of business now.right from the beginning of time , the world still now ,whether you are a president or a king people will always come after you .power is like a chess of game,the winner take it all.

 

The first episode shows that young prince Ning Yi was involved in bargaining for the last child of the old emperor and indirectly involved in Qiu Mingying's husband dying. Also...just because in Korean dramas the female lead is willing to get over the male lead's family massacring hers does not mean every single female should be able to get over it. Maybe it worked for that specific drama, but I am not sure how else to respond to this point because I have difficulty imagining anyone being okay with this...

I don't know how far along you are in the drama, but if you keep watching you will see that the rebels have a much larger scope  and achieved relative success. As for your point of FZW marring Ning Yi to regain her lost kingdom, you only have to look at the end of the War of Roses to get your answer. Elizabeth of York married Henry Tudor and the resulting dynasty is known as the Tudor dynasty. 

 

 

[skibbies]

@joyblack4 Mum doesn't know the specific details that night, the audience does. Even disregarding the husband dying thing, her country and royal family was wiped out. That's a very big thing to people in those times. As for how FZW would get her kingdom back, uhh fight for it? Like anyone else who want theirs back? Whether or not that's feasible or even if it's what she wants is left to be explored in the drama.

 

The romance doesn't precede everything else in this drama, it conflicts with family, with responsibility, with ambition and so on, so even if they do "get over" some very big barriers, it would be after much deliberation and struggling, so not near the beginning. The protagonists in this drama aren't ruthless, they both care deeply for people in their own way. Neither of them actually wants power in the beginning. Ning Yi wants revenge and righteousness for his mum and brother, Zhiwei just wants to stay alive and protect her family, power is a means to get to their goals,  which was never to win to begin with.

 

Not everyone think winner takes all, some people think the previous kingdom had their rightful place. This doesn't really come up in the drama, but emperors do care about whether they have so called "legitmate claim" on the kingdom, it's why conquerors and rebellions always had some "good reason" to overthrow their previous king and would consequently use various methods (lower tax for example) to keep their people happy and be more agreeable to the new kingdom. There's a lot of song and dance around keeping up appearance, it's why there's number of abdications and "blood-less passover of power". I digress. I guess my point is just that various characters have their own agenda, they might seem weak-ish to you because not enough time have been spent to prop them up or they don't have same information as we do or whatever, but they do make sense to the characters.