[Drama 2016-2017] Guardian: The Lonely and Great Goblin 도깨비

[Ahpheng]

@valzki you're welcome and glad you enjoyed the strips

 

[shynaz]

Wow I can Upload picture right now

This is latest of Tvn guide..I try to upload yesterday

thanks to @selenette and others who helped me

[gutibear]

23 minutes ago, aurelly said:

New still..

Bromanceee 

Power Ranger? 

Is that green groceries they are clutching? Thanks God for some humor...

[ucylucy]

Thank you @selenette @Sarang21 @bebebisous33 @staygold (and whomever I forgot to mentioned, I apologize ahead of time) for providing great in-depth analyses to support the theory that the Grim Reaper is King and the Queen is Sunny. 

I want to add my thoughts to support the same theory that the Grim Reaper is the King and Sunny is the Queen through dialogues from the drama (all credit goes to Viki tanslations). I find that dialogues provide much better clues.

Let's start at Episode 1, at the very beginning. This is clearly where the King had greatly sinned. He had Kim Shin and the majority of Kim Shin's household (family, relatives and servants) slaughtered because he was jealous of Kim Shin.  The King was the one who committed the huge sin here, not the Queen. The Queen did not do anything wrong (well, she could have stop Kim Shin and supported the King but her clear conscience would not let her do it). She knew the King was wrong and gave her brother the support to  move forward. She knew it meant instant death for her but she accepted her fate to die without hesitation. She had no regret. Hence, the crime committed here by the King was far far greater than Kim Shin or the Queen. Thereofere, those who became Grimm Reapers have committed great sin in the past (see episode 3).

Episode 1

Spoiler

Eunuch: King is above the people. God above the King. They say that "god" (Shin in Korean) refers to Kim Shin. That man's continued victory is mesmerizing the people and his powers continues to mock the royal court. Please rule over him strictly with the law of the land.

Kim Shin (voice over): He clearly saw the enemy's sword. But he didn't see the young King's jealousy and fear directed toward him. That was the sharpest knife pointed at him. He did not know that.

King: Stop right there and died a traitor. Then everyone else will survive except for you. But if you move one step closer, I'll kill everyone at every move you make and lay them in front of you.

Queen: Please go, General. I'm okay. (Kim Shin: I, your Highness) I know. I truly know everything. If it is our last moment, this is my fate. So please go. Don't stop and go to the King, General.

King: Traitors! Don't let the anyone in that household live. This is the King's order!

Kim Shin (voice over): Beg no more. God's not listening. On the brightest day part of the day, I died from the blade of the master I served to protect. (see episode 8 for the gifting of blade from the King to Kim Shin).

 

Episode 2: Fortune teller might be hinting at Sunny's past life: her cold fate, lack of children and husband are reminiscent of her previous life as the Queen. Plus, the foreshadowing of the Grimm Reaper (warned to be wary of) coming into her life.

Spoiler

Fortune Teller: Aigoo. You have no luck as far as having children and husband. You have trouble with the opposite sex and will always wander.

Sunny: So I have all kinds of bad luck including old age, huh? I should lose weight huh?

Fortune Teller: What a cold fate. You're a lonely orphan without any relatives. Life is like a boat that is floating on open sea.

Sunny: I wish I could be on that boat with a handsome man.

Fortune Teller: I see a man. Be careful of a man who wears a hat. A very black hat!

 

Episode 3 - Kim Shin's explanation for Grimm Reapers. Also clues throughout the episode that touches on why GR might be King and Sunny might be Queen. Interesting that when Grimm Reaper ask Kim Shin which of the great sins is not GR's, Kim Shin said "Unfilial", which might indicate that they are not blood related (thus Grimm Reaper has not blood ties to Kim Shin but the Queen does). Also Kim Shin ask if Grimm Reaper might be a "King" in his past life. Also Kim Shin's and the Grimm Reaper's relationship are more of buddy-buddy relationship than a sibling's relationship. They expressed their dislike for each other on the outside but on the inside, they clearly confide in each other as men do only with other men.

Spoiler

Kim Shin: In order to become a Grimm Reaper, you need to commit a big sin.

Deok Hwa: A big sin. Daebak! Is he really a murderer? Wow, you never know with a person's face?

Kim Shin: Grimm Reaper who might be a murderer in his past life!

Grimm Reaper (looking really hurt at the accusation that Kim Shin hurled at him): You! It's not like you haven't killed a single ant and not get punished!

*******************************************************************

Grimm Reaper writing down the great sins: Unfilial, Disloyal, Immodest, Unrestricted, Unvirtuous.

Grimm Reaper to Kim Shin: Among these, what is not?

Kim Shin: Unfilial? 

Kim Shin: It's not what's important to me what you did or what you were in the past life. Yeah. Because whatever you were, it's unchanging how I don' like you.

**********************************************************************

Kim Sin: Is that him? My rage of 1000 years, the reincarnation of the King that killed  me.

Grimm Reaper: Forget him. The hatred and sense of revenge is making you miserable.

Kim Shin: Then are you happy because you can't remember?

****************************************************************************************

Sunny: He's the best looking man I've ever seen. that ring was pretty though. I t seemed perfect for me.

*****************************************************************************************

Kim Shin: The more the better when it comes to wine, women and meat. I've kept with the principles plenty when I was a general.

Grimm Reaper: You were a general?

Kim Shin: You were never able to ask about the past before. How could you dare?

Grimm Reaper: But you don't know what I was.

Kim Shin: What were you? See you bluff. What, you were a king?

 

Episode 4 Sunny's conversation with Eun Tak about the man she is waiting for. She mentioned "king" here and always doing the waiting, like what a Queen does pretty much all day.

Spoiler

Sunny: I'm waiting

Eun Tak: For what?

Sunny: I don't know. I'm always just waiting for someone.

Eun Tak: A customer?

Sunny: No. Nim (sir).

Eun Tak: A prince charming on a white horse?

Sunny: I don't like younger men. Since it came to this, it would be better if it's a king on a white horse.

 

I'm not going to analyze the dialogues between Grimm Reaper and Sunny - there's enough posts/comments about their interactions.

Episode 6 - Interesting how even though Grimm Reaper bought the ring, he eventually gave the ring to Sunny because "it suits her better." Last time we saw the ring, the Queen was the one wearing the ring.

Spoiler

Grimm Reaper: This (ring). Let me give to you. 

Sunny: It's alright.

Grimm Reaper: You grabbed it first

Sunny: But you paid for it, Woo Bin.

Grimm Reaper: Since it suits you better.

Sunny: Alright, I'll take it then.

*******************************************************

Sunny: As expected, it so beautiful. It does belong to me.

 

Episode 8 - The episode that for me, most definitely confirmed that the Grimm Reaper is King and Sunny is the Queen. The writer did not even attempt to be subtle about it. Sunny told Grimm Reaper her real name is Kim Sun (same as the Queen). When Kim Shin starts writing Wang Yeo (the King's name), Grimm Reaper felt pain in his chest because Kim Shin was also projecting his thoughts and sorrows towards the young king as he writes the King's name.

Spoiler

Kim Shin: He said you cried. Why would you cried when I don't even cry.

Grimm Reaper: I was flustered too so I thought about it a lot. Stendhal's syndrome (strong reaction to art or something personally significant). I'm thinking maybe it's something like that. It was really touching and I felt really overwhelmed. 

Grimm Reaper: But who is it? The girl in the painting?

Kim Shin: What are you going to do with that information?

Grimm Reaper: It seemed like I saw her before.

Kim Shin: Who's the girl that you saw? The girl that I know is my sister

Deok Hwa: You had an older sister, uncle?

Kim Shin: Have you really seen my younger sister? Think about it carefully where you saw her.

Deok Hwa: Ah younger sister.

Grimm Reaper: I think it's one of the decease I was in charge of but I'm not sure about that either.

Kim Shin: The girl reincarnated? When?

Grimm Reaper: I told you I"m not sure. Do you know how many people I've taken? How could I remember all their faces? It just seemed like I saw her before so I am making that assumption. I don't have memories, only feelings existed. It was just really sad. My heart ached.

Deok Hwa: Uncles, I got it. I think I know. What if Uncle Down The Hall is a reincarnation of your younger sister? Uncle Down The Hall, try calling him orabeoni (older brother) once?

Kim Shin and Grimm Reaper: I'll kill you!

*******************************************************************************

Later that day, Grimm Reaper tried say say "orabeoni" twice but couldn't.

*********************************************************************************

Sunny: My real name has only one syllable. Kim Sun. My parents wanted me to be well off so they hired someone to come up with my name despite their being poor. Apparently that clairvoyant said it had to be that name. I hated that name so much. It feels like it contains a long history. Kim Sun. (Kim Shin is writing her name Kim Sun (also his sister, the Queen's name) down on the paper at this time).

Sunny: Kim Woo Bin, what is your real name. I know that it's a fake name. I won't tease you even if your real name doesn't suit you. So can you can you please reveal your real name to me now?

Grimm Reaper:...

At this time Kim Shin starts writing Wang Yeo. Grimm Reaper starts clutching his chest in pain at Kim Shin's every stroke as he writes Yeo. It's as if Kim Shin writing strokes were stabbing the Grimm Reaper in the chest. 

Kim Shin remembers the first time he received the sword that killed and revived him.

King: With anger and wish, I'm giving you the sword. Go as far as possible  and never come back if you can.

Kim Shin: By that, you mean...How dare you say that . Goryeo is your country. I defended it's borders because you ordered me to do so and I destroyed the enemies because you ordered me to do so. When my sister is in this country and so are the citizens, how can...

King: Now you're worrying about things that a king should be worrying about. Let it be known that Ryul Jang is dead. It will be known soon. It's a king's order.

********************************************************************************

Towards the end of the episode when Grimm Reaper is looking at the Queen's painting.

Grimm Reaper: Probably everything started from you.

By this, I think he might mean the feelings, pain and turmoil that he felt when he first saw the painting. Or he could refer to how the whole tragedy started with the Queen not supporting the King but her brother Kim Shin instead and maybe causing the chain reaction of deaths.

 

Final thoughts: For me, I think the biggest and most important clue about who the Grimm Reaper is is to look at what defines one as a Grimm Reaper. In this case, one who becomes a Grimm Reaper has committed a huge sin/crime in his/her previous life. That has been stressed by Kim Shin and the other Grimm Reaper. If you look at who has committed the biggest sin in Goblin, it is the King. 

He has tried to killed Kim Shin when he first gave the sword to Kim Shin and ordered him to continue warring in the neighboring lands. When Kim Shin came back alive and successful, he ordered Kim Shin to lay down his sword to be killed by the King for not dying in the warring fields as the King had wanted him to. When Kim Shin refused, the King began killing Kim Shin's household (his sister, relatives and his servants). The King had premeditated Kim Shin's death by not only arranging his wife to be in full view of the arches but also had taken hostages of Kim Shin's relatives and servants. 

The king has committed the greatest sin of all. He killed Kim Shin, his wife, Kim Shin's household, and the lives of the King's enemies that the King had ordered Kim Shin to kill in the King's name.

Therefore I believe the Grimm Reaper is the King base on who committed the greatest sin between the King and the Queen.

[shynaz]

The power of goblin...

[sakura2016]

BY TESSIEROO  K-DRAMA, VIDEO PREVIEWDECEMBER 28, 2016

GOBLIN EPISODE 9 PREVIEW

 

 

read here: http://couch-kimchi.com/2016/12/28/goblin-episode-9-preview/

 

 

cr: tvN drama

 what is this?!! find Eun Tak-ie Kim Shin-ssi!!  

I loved how Grim Reaper was concerned for un Tak asking why she's to die!! 

[shynaz]

1 hour ago, aurelly said:

New still..

Bromanceee 

  I look them so smart and handsome..I just be in loved again The suddenly my eyes look the vegetables..Now I feel like

Why they bring the vegetables...

[RobinM]

Veggies are Eun Taks theme... some girls want chocolate when they are down but she gets her greens. Maybe they are for her. 

[ucylucy]

Goblin (Guardian: The Lonely and Great God) Quotes and Narration Episode 7 & 8

 

Episode 7

“If it doesn’t work again, there’s only one answer: true love” -Ji Eun Tak-

“Could you give up trying to die & consider living instead? Because of you, some people in the past were able to turn a new leaf. Wouldn’t it be nice if they were to benefit from a strange but beautiful stroke luck of miracle?” -Grandpa-

“My face is my business card, it says right there: “Pretty person!” -Sunny-

“Sunny: What do you like?
Grim Reaper KWB: You
Sunny: You’re driving me crazy. Not that. Like hobbies / things like that
Grim Reaper KWB: You… Your unpredictable acts draw me in more than a drama does. Your unpredictability incites my imagination.”

“My power is staying alive” -Kim Shin-

“I was obsessed to become your bride because it felt like we’re becoming family (I never had) that I thought I could have” -Ji Eun Tak-

“The oracle was right. The future I foresaw was correct. With this girl’s help, I will be able to end this curse of eternity and return to ash. A mortal soul can live up to 100 years – is what I’m looking for my life as an immortal soul or your face? I think it is your face” -Kim Shin-

*********************************************************************************************************

Episode 8

“I’m really the (your) bride, this was my destiny” -Ji Eun Tak-

“Who says first loves don’t work out? I don’t like this” -Kim Shin-

“Having to like you… I couldn’t be more foolish” -Kim Shin-

“That sword is his reward & punishment, his reason for existing and the clue to his extinction” -Grandpa-

“You are my life & my death. And I… like you. Thus, I keep this secret and ask above for permission. May you not know for one more day, for 100 more years” -Kim Shin-

“She was born to pull out your sword – no, you gave her that fate. She will become useless if she doesn’t do what she was born to do as there will be no reason for her existence. If she fails to pull out the sword, she will continue to face death” -Birth Grandmother-

“One day after 100 years, when the weather is good enough, I hope I will be able to tell her she was my first love. I ask… above for permission” -Kim Shin-

http://beatuscorner.com/goblin-quotes-and-narration/2/

[violetpetal]

58 minutes ago, aurelly said:

New still..

Bromanceee

Cr Owner

 

wow they look so cool! but holding a bag of veggie in a tunnel? hahaha, i don't have any idea of a story line for this picture.

[Chellsee]

10 of Korea’s Most Popular Dramas in 2016

2016 gave us many good dramas, but these ten won over everyone’s hearts and took the crown for the most popular dramas of the year.

There were dozens of dramas that came out this past year, and they were all full of heartwarming romances, adorable bromances, and enough drama to last us a lifetime. However, among those dramas, there were particular dramas that reached massive levels of success. From Descendants of the Sun to Cheese in the Trap, these ten dramas will go down in K-drama history.

1. GOBLIN

Goblin just came out earlier this month. However, it is ending the year as being the most popular K-drama of 2016. Goblin full of supernatural themes and a bromance that grows on you more and more each episode. It also has sweet love stories and characters that are hard not to like. Goblin snuck up on us just like the hilarious group of ghosts that sneak up on Ji Euntak and took the crown with excellent ratings in only nine episodes.

*****skipped unrelated*****

http://www.koreaboo.com/buzz/10-of-koreas-most-popular-dramas-in-2016/

[RobinM]

Fighting God, Destiny and Fate to be with your true loves takes takes a lot of Ruffage 

 

[mariazzang]

Did the drama really used a different version of Beautiful instead of the one officially released by Crush? I listened that song by Crush a lot of times, and rewatched ep 1 a lot of times too but I can't hear the difference. I'm just curious if this is true or just a hearsay. I don't think the answer would matter really because I love the song and I really can't hear the difference but I want to know who sang the other version, if it did exist.

[kiranzz]

I love how Kim Shin and Grim Reaper are defending to take care of ET life, but I feel ironic too when  finally the truth is revealed that GR is a King who ordered to kill KS, in the stage  of their bromance also growing stronger 

[Chellsee]

New stills in a separate form.

Link: http://www.topstarnews.net/hd_photo_view.php?number=232239&idx=0

 

[joyezz]

9 hours ago, selenette said:

@packmule3 Greetings! *bows*

First, I have to say I'm not personally against the Grim Reaper being a former Queen. In fact, it is interesting to see an actor portraying a feminine soul within: it will be such a bold challenge to fixed Asian gendered characterization, isn't it? Well, perhaps that is the sociologist/feminist in me speaking, although hopefully I am by no means a "rabid feminist" as you put it in a previous post.

However, I found some explanations against this theory (comprising speculations and solid evidence), so I maintain that the Grim Reaper was the King we saw in Eps 1 and 7. 

Here are my arguments against the Queen theory. I had to put them under spoiler boxes so as not to put off people who are not interested in speculations. 

A. THE QUEEN'S FEELINGS OF LACK OR LOW SELF-CONFIDENCE

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I would like to open my arguments by this statement. I do not think the Queen-to-be would feel that she was extremely lacking in anything, as you put it some time ago. She must've been selected from a noble family of high social status and wealth (as was the custom of this era in Korean history).

It is true, however, that a King is richer and more powerful (despite any political machinations that might render him powerless) than anyone else in his kingdom.

Nonetheless, the Queen-to-be s in Goryeo and Joseon era were almost always noblewomen. There were specific cases in which commoners were chosen as Queens, throughout arduous route of being concubines, etc etc, but in Kim Sun's case, it was clear from the family's many servants and followers, as well as her pre-Queen beautiful hanbok, that she was a noblewoman, and hence was socially more affluent than any common woman.

 

B. SUNNY'S CONFIDENCE AND DOMINANCE? 

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Similar to the (admittedly) hasty assumption (that I would back up with an evidence later in this post) that the King must have regretted his mistakes, the assumption  that the Queen was neither  the "dominant one" nor the "confident one" is also a hasty one.

We only saw the Queen and King interacted in public, we do not know how they acted in private. She could very well be both the dominant and the confident one when she was alone with the King, but we have yet to find out.

In addition, we have not seen many of the Queen's scenes, but in both scenes (Eps 1 and 7), I do not find her as a woman of low self-confidence.

On the contrary, I see a young woman with an amazingly commanding, powerful presence. A young woman who maintained her dignity even though she knew she would soon die, and who bore her Queen training with confidence and delight.

Why can't Sunny be a reincarnation of such a brilliant young lady, instead of a young man? History has repeatedly shown how women could be both poised and authoritative at the same time. 

 

C. FEELINGS OF LACK IN A RELATIONSHIP

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Even if Grim Reaper was the King, it would still make sense that he felt lacking. I might be wrong, but to me this is part of Korean culture of "shyness" (which was alluded to in the movie Socialphobia, among others).

We see such panicky reactions from the Goblin. When he was jealous to Eun-tak's interactions with Tae-hee, he showed off that he is handsome (confidence pose (Ep4), shiny new car), good at baseball (Ep 7) and at memorizing a smartphone's specs (Ep 5), was able to work in such mundane jobs (Ep 8)...

Hence, the Goblin, a once formidable general and a nobleman to boot, is desperate to show himself in a good light in front of Eun-tak. So is the Grim Reaper, who was a king, in front of Sunny. We expected these men to be confident all the time, but they aren't always so.

 

D. THE GRIM REAPER'S SOCIAL INEPTNESS AND ITS CAUSES

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Another explanation to the Grim Reaper's social ineptness could be found in his amnesia and his recruitment into Grim Reaperdom. In my humble opinion, the setup for a Grim Reaper is equal to a total reboot, or a factory reset, of a repaired gadget. Thus he was robbed of many subtleties necessary in mingling among humans.

While grooming was compulsory for a Queen-to-be, Grim Reaper's drilled answers to Sunny's questions are not necessarily the signs of his Queen-ness. We could always refer to the Goblin's frantic behavior in his relationship with Eun-tak (as previously explained) for comparison. 

Granted, the Goblin isn't amnesiac, so he doesn't need any made-up background as Eun-tak's boyfriend. But in the Grim Reaper's case, his anxiety in the budding relationship with Sunny is worsened by the absence of any ties to living things. 

 

E.HOUSEHOLD CHORES AND FEMININITY

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Nowadays, more and more household chores are shared by men and women, regardless of masculinity or femininity. Even in an Asian society entrenched with patriarchy like mine, this phenomenon has become increasingly common.  I approve of the writer's showing the household scenes, because it is a brave challenge against the traditional male and female division of labor.

Surely if we can accept, or even think,  that a man was a woman in his past life, then we can also accept that a man is still masculine while folding towels, or rather, a masculine man needs not be afraid of embracing previously established "feminine" chores.

In short, the Grim Reaper's skills in towel-folding and cooking do not necessarily indicate the presence of a feminine soul. 

 

F. CRYING SCENES: GOLLUM AND THE GRIM REAPER?

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Concerning Grim Reaper's crying scene in Ep 7, I rewatched Gollum's crying scenes on YouTube and these could not be more different from the Grim Reaper's. Especially since you referred to the one Gollum did for his Ring. There was certainly sorrow in Gollum's eyes, but there was also resentment in them: after all, the Ring was his curse. I don't see this at all in the Grim Reaper's eyes. All that was there was grief. 

Or perhaps it is Lee Dong-wook's nuanced performance that brings different interpretations to different people. After all, he is a seasoned actor. 

 

 

G. THE GRIM REAPER'S PAIN IN THE CALLIGRAPHY SCENE

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As to why the Grim Reaper was pained in the calligraphy scene (Ep 8), I realize that my post was purely conjecture. However, I'm afraid the same goes to yours when you argued that it was a pain responsive to his killer's name.

Whichever was the case, one thing is undeniable: the pain started at the writing of the yeo ( 黎 ) character in the "Wang Yeo" name (see picture).

Cr: Twitter owner

Because you used a real life analogy of "looking at our own old photos and crying over them for the past long gone" (my own rewording), I will also apply such analogy for this case. I'm afraid chest-clutching does not always signify remembrance of one's pain. Remembrance of the pain we inflict on others could bring us pain, too. 

 

H. THE KING'S REGRETS: WHO WAS THE SCROLLS' OWNER?

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Now, we're moving onto the King's supposed regrets and the scrolls (the paintings of the Queen). I realize that to declare the King regretted his actions, without any solid evidence whatsoever, is also a conjecture.

Still, I'm more inclined to think of his keeping scrolls and scrolls of the Queen's picture as a sign of the king's remorse, like @Sarang21 said, especially since she had long since died. Nobody else, to my belief, could have possessed those scrolls.

Allow me to explain. 

Firstly, it seems rather absurd, as well as bordering on incestuous (at least to me) if those scrolls were Kim Shin's-- why would he be so obsessed with his teenaged little sister?

Secondly, the scrolls could not possibly belong to the palace archives, either. The room they set the scroll scene in looked different from the usual palace archives room in sageuks.

Thirdly, the man in the following picture,

had been correctly described by @itzibitzispider as the Kims' family servant.

He was not an archivist. As far as I know from watching sageuks, maintenance of palace archives was the job of palace eunuchs and scholars, while servants were only given menial jobs. 

The attire of these eunuchs and scholars were different from the servants, so each member of the social class was readily recognizable. 

The room where the scroll belonged in was small and seemingly private, not to mention there were brushes and paints too. So this wasn't the palace archives. This was somewhere secret, but most likely still within the palace (given the furniture and the subsequent scene of Kim Shin's razing the palace).

Cr: Sarang 21

Since the queen was branded as traitor, the King could not mourn her in public even after he found out that she was innocent (thanks, @bebebisous33 and @Sarang21).  Also, we see no other royal family members who could possibly have sympathized with the Queen so far, or anyone else who would have bothered painting her likeness in secret.

Unlike the Medieval to Victorian era Western societies, private painting commissions of individual likenesses were, as far as I know, not a trend in Goryeo era Korea. Theirs was an era more commonly associated with Buddhist paintings.

Therefore, it is more plausible that the scrolls belonged to the King.

 

I. THE GRIM REAPERS: ARE THEY REINCARNATED? 

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Another point that I would like to address as my supporting argument is the writer's worldbuilding of Grim Reapers.  

In  the case of the Grim Reapers, our Grim Reaper and one of his juniors already stated in Eps 2 and 4 that they were dead souls ("We're not alive, but why do we still have to eat, drink, and find shelter?"  ; "She asked me how I was, when I'm not even alive."-- my own rewording) .

Therefore, these Grim Reapers are not reincarnations, but souls who are assigned to reap other souls, and as a result are allowed to be semi-corporeal rather than 100 per cent incorporeal or invisible like common ghosts.

Furthermore, there is another evidence that dead souls cannot change their entire looks.

The ghosts in this drama appear as who they once were before they died, i.e. the females appear as females, the males appear as males.  The only aspect that they could change was the extent of their injuries (Ep 8, Eun-tak's "friend").

Since there is no evidence in this show that a dead soul can disguise his/herself, and mirrors do not change our Grim Reaper's reflection, then it follows that the Grim Reaper's current appearance was how he more or less looked like when he was alive.

 

J. ON THE USE OF MIRRORS 

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You argued that mirrors played an important part in this show as a way to look at the Grim Reaper's inner Queen-ness. I will respectfully beg to differ.

To my humble interpretation, the literary function of the mirrors in this show, i.e. the one that The Goddes of Birth and Fertility/The Red Lady showed him (Ep 3), his body-length mirror (Ep 8), is to tell the viewers that The Grim Reaper was made to feel the kind of pains he inflicted on the Queen (I think @bebebisous33 once argued for this as well, if I'm not mistaken).

His pain was hers, thrown back at him like a mirror reflection to make him reflect on his past mistakes and as part of the price he still had to pay.

Granted, these are yet another series of rambling conjectures, but so are your conjecture that these pains were the pains of the Grim Reaper's past self.

Still concerning the use of mirrors as the show's literary device, I see it as yet another supporting evidence of the Grim Reaper's Kingly past. The sun-shaped mirror is not a red herring, but another symbolism that is in parallel with his crown pin (i.e. that he was a king). This might be lazy Occam's Razor writing, but in my opinion this is really that obvious.

Note: Pardon me if I misapply the philosophical phrase

 

K. ON SUNNY'S DISLIKE OF THE "KIM SUN" NAME

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Additionally, I would like to kindly remind you that per Ep 8, the reason Sunny does not like the name Kim Sun is not only its "goody-goody" ness, but also its association to a distant, obscure, yet traumatic past.

I assume this is related to the Queen's past. I admit that this is a biased view, because I am already more inclined to side with the King theory. 

However, and even if Sunny was the King, any associations of the "Kim Sun" name with a painful past could only serve to strengthen my argument that the King was remorseful for the pain he inflicted on the Queen. 

 

L. ON THE GRIM REAPER'S "KIM" NAME

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Our Grim Reaper's current name, "Messenger Kim", is neither a clue to his past name nor a name he particularly chose for himself. It is a standard name for all Grim Reapers (Ep 3).

 

CONCLUSION

In conclusion, while it is possible that the Grim Reaper was the Queen, it is also equally possible that the writer has not revoked the casting announcements that Lee Dong-wook's Grim Reaper was a King named Wang Yeo. 

 

Last but not least, we are entitled to our own opinions, but I hope I don't come across as offensive to anyone here. If I do, then I humbly apologize.

I could have just like your post but you deserve an applause gif  

GR needs everything to be neat and tidy and perfect in the house just like what he used to in the palace. Since he doesn't have servants now,he has to do it himself  so he is doing all the house chores haha

 

 

 

 

[packmule3]

5 hours ago, bebebisous33 said:

 

....

As for this picture 

@packmule3 Notice that the mirror looks like a sun. We all know that the sun symbolises the king. I respect your interpretation with that scene, however I saw it differently. The mirror could be seen as a window from/to the past. While they are talking about the portrait and the identity of the woman, it was as if the past was looking at the future, as if GR's memories from the past were about to come back, but since it is a mirror, it is impossible that the memories can really resurface and that the past can be connected to the present. I hope, it is understandable.

As for DH, I had mentioned very early that DH was more than rich spoiled cheabol heir. The last episode confirmed that he knows more than GR and KS think, he knows. He knew how to use GR for erasing the memories. He knows how to read Hanja, he didn't tell the truth to ET in the first place. He mentioned a love confession, while it was about his death wish. Moreover, he pledged loyalty to the GR very early, which is surprising because he is supposed to help only KS. He was the one who offered his help to GR in the first place. Notice that he wanted to call GR samchun as well. From the beginning, he tried to be as close as possible to the GR. In my opinion, he knew GR's real identity.    

 

Yes, I knew about the sun mirror.

I should have brought it up. But the reason I didn’t was because back in Episode 1, when the Reaper was moving in, DH told him that the rental house was fully furnished. “All the furniture that you see is included so you just needed to move.” Therefore, the mirror belonged to Shin, and to me, the king symbolism attached to mirror cannot be attributed to the Reaper.      

As for your interpretation of the mirror, yes, that’s certainly one way of looking at mirrors in general. However, the mirror did NOT function like that in the other instance it was used in the kdrama – with the cabbage grandmother at the bridge. In that instance, the mirror wasn’t at all a “window” but the real reflection of reality. On it, we saw who the pretty street vendor really was. The mirror showed the real identity of the grandmother. That’s why I wrote that the sun mirror reflects their identity, too. I was trying to be consistent. 

Interestingly enough, the mirror could have been used on the Reaper there too. But the reflected sunlight blinded him and he closed his eyes. When he opened them, the spotlight was on the ring. I guess he wasn't ready for the truth then either. 

--- ooops, I almost forgot! In Episode 8, when ET was walking with that pretty dead student, they both walked in front of the mirror, and the student's real and horrible condition was shown too.

As for DH’s loyalty to both the Reaper and Shin, I’m glad you brought that up. If the Reaper is the Queen/sister, then it is only natural that DH will serve the whole family, both the Reaper and Shin equally. He won’t have divided loyalties.  

What’s more important for me, however, is the Hanja text that DH read in Shin’s diary. I don’t know what’s written but Shin has been going on and on about this for the last two episodes, lol. He'll probably write something like:  After a 100 years, on a good enough day, let me confess my first love, I ask the gods to listen to me. 

If so, then I can see how it is both a love confession and a death wish at the same time. It means: his LAST wish before dying is to confess his FIRST love to her.

Somebody as young (he's only 25, right?) and relatively untried-and-untested as DH will probably be confused whether to emphasize the "death wish" part or the "love confession" part. DH is only going by with what (little) he knows, so I'm cutting him slack. For now. 

For me, though, the word LISTEN will probably critical. That’s the one act he did when ET’s mom prayed for help when she was dying: LISTEN to her plea, and because he did so, he changed his life.  That’s also the word ET drew on his palm: LISTEN. And that’s one thing he thought the deities failed to do when he laid dying, and when he buried those grandsons in a foreign land: LISTEN to him. 

Now, he’s beseeching the gods to LISTEN to him one more time. I wonder what he’ll do if they turn deaf ears to him again....

[aurelly]

Ahjussi, why so sad?  you feel so lost and make snow? 

New BTS by FanCAM 

Ahjussi so happy 

Spoiler

 

 

[NRGchick]

8 hours ago, cristapark said:

I'm just curious ,,,do you think they already filmed the ending scene in Quebec..the previous episode when KS saw ET future at the restaurant?? I' wonder if it's the ending part..Im just curious if they already filmed it ahead of time..I remember during Dots ,,the kiss scene ending was filmed already in advance than the other episodes

 

I am of the same mind. I think the ending has already been filmed but how we get there may be tweaked. 

Didn't I read that Kim Ji Woo's character was meant to die in DOTS but the writer changed that? 

*mian - I think I am one of the few people who did not watch DOTS  *

[naritul]

10 hours ago, hairuchii said:

 

There are words which I could not understand (it would help if there is a text preview too; then, I could check the words), but I have indicated the parts which I am not sure about below. This should be the main gist of the preview. We should wait for Dramafever or somebody else to release perhaps a more accurate translation.

[KS must have told GR about what happened]

GR: What are you talking about? Why would the missing soul die?

KS: What the hell are we?

KS: Why is it that, even with the two of us, a Goblin and a Grim Reaper, the girl could not live?

ET: If you appear in front my my eyes again, I will really kill you then.*

KS: I'm looking for her. Tenaciously. Which door would I have to open? [I cannot catch this one... Something about how it will be up to the gods.]

ET (whispers): I love you....

*I've have seen different translations of this line. I have listened to the preview over and over again. Eun Tak uses a word for "kill" (죽이다) that is mostly used for killing somebody else. If she is referring to killing herself, she could have used the words for "commit suicide" (자살하다).

 

 Thank you @hairuchii

hope you guys dont mind i subbed the vid

 

@shynaz HAHAHAHAHA LOL I AM LAUGHING WHILE I AM TYPING RIGHT NOW!!!! HAHAHAHAHA 

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@valzki Yeaaayyy , I was so happy when i saw familiar names here... but you've changed ur avatar hehehe @staygold @aurelly you too!!!

Edited December 29, 2016 by naritul
add more, typo