[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner

[Yippeun_eonnie]

for the new comers.....sweet warning from me..

 

Believe me...I can't even start my day without checking this thread...its poisonous ....LOL

[Akiddo]

58 minutes ago, 40somethingahjumma said:

While Uk sees people as obligations, So sees them as rarities (gems) because he doesn't have too many people he can rely on and trust. He has barely a family to speak of (although he's clearly trying to build one) and so he craves for love. It's ironic to me that the man who has been given so much love and respect is the one least capable of thinking/expressing in those terms while the one who has had so little of it, is the one who is trying to give it to anyone who will accept his sincerity. Whether it's that witch he calls mother, whether it's his brothers, his father, or Su, he wants authentic relationships. And when he gives it, he is a force of nature. 

When So mouths his mantra "You are my person" it sounds to us modern types dangerously like possession and obsession. But for him it is much more than that. It is about protection, care and advocacy... all the things he demonstrated in Ep. 11. This is why for him there is no distinction for between "love" and "friendship". "You are my person" is him taking ownership of that person's welfare so love is not some airy fairy abstract concept subject to the whims of emotions but hard core robust doing. And when he says "you are my person" he's talking about what he will do for them rather than the other way around. He too feels responsibility for Su but in a way to frees him to act and to be himself.

I think it's just fascinating what the writer has been doing. One brother is constantly juggling and negotiating obligations as a burden that he must bear especially if he wants to ascend the throne; the other willingly ties himself to people as an expression of his liberty. One is imprisoned by his own ambition, the other free to act in accordance to his desire.

I love it.

@40somethingahjumma 

This drama is bringing me back to my school days in the early 90s when I studied English literature. The way we analyse and dissect a prose or poem during practical criticism - I am applying it here as well. This drama is such a joy ride! 

 Your POV is jjang!!!

[Misstwilightfan1416]

Episode 11 Video Clips from DramaFever

Spoiler

Credit: DramaFever

 

[theseasasleep]

21 minutes ago, 40somethingahjumma said:

I want to talk about two things. The male leads and adaptation.

In this post I'll deal with the male leads because knowing me, this will turn into an essay.

Now that I've watched Ep.11 from a translating, subbing perspective, I find myself rethinking many things. Looking at the characters at a lexical level is one of my great passions as a reader of texts and as someone who teaches others to read.

I've always believed that the writer set up So and Uk as clear, contrastive figures that subvert the usual generic pigeonholes. On the surface they appear to be archetypes and tropes but here the writer plays around with the "protagonist" and "antagonist" labels chopping and changing their roles and shifting our perspectives as well as undermining our expectations of "first male lead", "second male lead". For the writer and this drama such categories don't exist and if they do they shift like sand... because thankfully in life, no matter who's the lead character of one's life story, there is no such thing as "first" male lead.

Years ago I remember watching a tv biopic about Judy Garland and they went through all the men in her life... eg. her first husband Sidney Luft, husband No. 2, David Rose, Husband No. 3 -- Vincente Minnelli etc etc... I see something like this going on here with Su and her reverse harem.

The two lead males have their mantras, or slogans that they live by and they act as motifs in the drama. For Uk it's about "owing debts", for So, it's collecting and "owning" people -- "You are my person".

Uk sees life as an accounting ledger. I'm no accountant but even I know what someone means when they say "I owe you". It means obligation, repayment and calling in favours. Personally I don't really like living in this way but it is (from personal experience) the dominant mode of operation among many Asian cultures. For Uk life is one huge responsibility comprised of many little responsibilities. It's not just that he has responsibilities as the most prestigious son in his mother's clan, it is his entire worldview. It is how he sees the world perhaps through force of habit and expectations of others and it colours the way he understands things like family, love and ambition. It is through this grid that he is able to justify the kinds of decisions that he makes. Because he perceives life in terms of debt and credit, he tends not to overcommit himself lest he has to "owe" people more than he needs to. He's not an outright bad guy but he does see his sins or shortcomings more as debts rather than as moral failures.

When he finds out that Su understood the love poem because his late wife read it to her, his response was... "the debt I owe to Madam are too many". Moreover, when he goes to Lady Hae's grave before proposing marriage, again he uses the language "the debt I owe you I will repay to Hae Su". I find that fascinating and not a little bit disturbing. Despite the fact that he regretted bitterly not telling Lady Hae that he loved her, one can't help feeling that his idea of love is still primarily rooted in obligation. When he finally proposes marriage to Su, he says that he's had a hard life and that he needs her to help him lighten the load, to ease the burden. It's hardly the most romantic marriage proposal but it is consistent with who he is and him being a man of his time. However, what is really compelling to me is that although he was "burdened" with an arranged marriage, it was a reasonably happy one. He had a wife that was utterly devoted to him and his interests. The woman adored him. She helped raise the profile of his family. No man in his right mind especially in those days would be too unhappy with his lot in life but he still thought of it and her as a burden or responsibility. He had a mother who loved him and gave him a lot of freedom to do what he wanted to -- "Have I ever opposed anything you've ever wanted to do?"

In the curious incident of the killing of the palace maid in the middle of the night, Uk says similar things to his sister. "You and I are now debtors to one another" to paraphrase. He tells her that he owes her for reawakening his desire for the throne and she owes him for silencing the only witness to the poisoning that she help orchestrate.

I think we need to get away from thinking that Uk puts his family first... in the same way that we think of that concept. When we modern types talk about putting our family first, we are talking about giving up things... sacrificing... prioritizing for their sake. But when he does "family first", it's about how they impact his greater goal. Like the way calculating politicians fearful of bad publicity do. 

I think Su was something of a different category for him. In the early days she was "desire" and not "responsibility" and so she was fun to be with. But the moment things got intense and demanding she became a "burden" that he had to jettison because she hampered his ultimate objective. It was easier for him to gravitate towards Su when his wife was around because she was this "new fun thing" in his life that distracted him from his "responsibilities".

Do I sound cynical? I don't mean it to be. For him it wasn't a moral failing. That's why he could send love poems and play the gentleman to Su without worrying about distressing about his wife's feelings. Because his wife was serious -- a responsibility, Su -- on the other hand, was "what I do when I have fun and enjoy life".

While Uk sees people as obligations, So sees them as rarities (gems) because he doesn't have too many people he can rely on and trust. He has barely a family to speak of (although he's clearly trying to build one) and so he craves for love. It's ironic to me that the man who has been given so much love and respect is the one least capable of thinking/expressing in those terms while the one who has had so little of it, is the one who is trying to give it to anyone who will accept his sincerity. Whether it's that witch he calls mother, whether it's his brothers, his father, or Su, he wants authentic relationships. And when he gives it, he is a force of nature. 

When So mouths his mantra "You are my person" it sounds to us modern types dangerously like possession and obsession. But for him it is much more than that. It is about protection, care and advocacy... all the things he demonstrated in Ep. 11. This is why for him there is no distinction for between "love" and "friendship". "You are my person" is him taking ownership of that person's welfare so love is not some airy fairy abstract concept subject to the whims of emotions but hard core robust doing. And when he says "you are my person" he's talking about what he will do for them rather than the other way around. He too feels responsibility for Su but in a way to frees him to act and to be himself.

I think it's just fascinating what the writer has been doing. One brother is constantly juggling and negotiating obligations as a burden that he must bear especially if he wants to ascend the throne; the other willingly ties himself to people as an expression of his liberty. One is imprisoned by his own ambition, the other free to act in accordance to his desire.

I love it.

This has to be the most beautiful post I have read so far on this thread. Thank you very much for expressing your analysis. 

[dhia205]

@KdramaSwimmer i'll sent it to you dear, hope can make you laugh 

==========

[qwenli]

@40somethingahjumma love your "essays"

I really empathize with wook as I think he is more of a "real" person we will find in daily lives.   

I love So very much, but to me he is an ideal type that is rare to find. Having been unloved as a child, by normal trajectory, he would become a rather twisted grown-up. No child can grow up properly without love and care. The adult they grow into will have very twisted world views.    

 I wonder what stops Wook from going out into the rain to at least hug Soo or even go talk to the king about it. What fears lie in him so greatly that he feels so trap. I feel Soo's despair but I feel sorry for Wook too. To be brought up to think that you can't go for your dreams, it's one of the most terrible things that can happened to anyone.

But of course I understand it is necessary to contrast the two characters greatly so that the plot can move forward. The writer swept away any doubt as to who should Soo choose.  

[Sue Lee]

HI everyone!  Just wanted to ask if someone is familiar with the background song during EP 11 when So visited Soo while she was imprisoned? Thanks for the reply! :-)

[Shiro_Ragonjan]

************Just a thought really...

I'm sincerely hoping that HS would WANT to either learn how to play politics or DEEPLY understand How-To-Survive-The-Palace 101 after getting over Lady Oh's death and WW turning his back on her. It's about time to wake up from "it's not like this from where I come from (2016)..." phase.

I understand that she's still getting a shock from what's happening to her within a short span of time (about 1 year, i think ) since she arrived at WS's time, but crying all the time and being helpless is getting tedious. I want to see her resilience, use all the things she knows from the future to survive. Goodness, she passed primary, secondary and tertiary level of education (tons of cosmetic licenses). Comparing from their ancient teachings, she could atleast use her knowledge some way to get herself our of trouble or a way to avoid unfortunate circumstances.

I bet her transformation would impress the heck out of them lot.

I'm rewatching Empress Ki while waiting for Moday to come. If only HS would get even a tiny bit of the kicka** moves and the brilliant way of thinking of Ki Seung Nyang (Empress Ki), she would definitely be able to survive the palace life when the CP or WS would bring her back in the coming episodes.

[Evangeline Yang]

The pages really jumped like crazy. It was on page 700 plus yesterday and today already hit more than 800 pages.

First of all, I like what @skxz posted about the difference in how these 2 leads proposed marriage.

Wook like to ask for permission. He is careful in everything he does. While So on the other hand, love to take action first then talk later. He is not asking for permission, he is deciding for the 2 of them especially since our female main lead is so afraid and indecisive at times.

And reading about YH, I actually feel she does have the feeling for So but bury it inside of her in order to achieve her goals and ambitions. This was showed in ep 7 when Wook asked about her feeling for So and specially asked whether she still like or love him and her expression showed pains that even if she loved him, for her ambition, she is willing to let it go and aim for anyone who will be the next King. So I can totally understand that she is the next Queen Yoo in the making. Sadly, all these current leads are just going the direction of the previous characters of the previous era, like Queen Yoo etc. How hate and ambition can turn the current characters into the very ones they hated.I am hoping for a better ending as I googled about the past works of the writer and mostly the ending is those that satisfied the audience even if it is not 100% happiness but at least a good ending that concluded a tough journey of love. Like, Save the Last Dance for Me. One of my favourite drama that made me rewatched a couple of times and cried and yet smile at the ending.

Awww... while writing all these, my heart just can't wait for Monday and Tuesday to come. And the dream of wishing the DVD director uncut version will become a reality.

[wangnyeo]

many thoughts, ideas, emotions .... 

do not where to start!! but let's start  

 

~ It's true the story or the drama still airing but there is this feeling I have that I am so satistifief as a viewer with everything so far and this kind of feeling I regard it as a big achievement to the writer and this drama producer .. 

there have been many dramas I watched, where I loved them badly but at the same time belived that they would be perfect if certain things were happened, showed, told or unfolded !! but this drama from my prescriptive of view can not get any better !! it is just so perfect ! 

 

~ Great script!! 

Also it's true that I may start watching a drama because of my biases but never I have completed one unless the plot was attractive and hence worth watching. 

but this drama !! 

i started merely because of Lee Jun Ki oppa but can you imagine that at some point I hated him in this series !!!! 

that while watching the second confrontation scene of So-Soo couple when she talked about love & friendship , and he insisted that his feeling has only one meaning and she is the confused one !! 

at that moment I was angry with him ( sure his character ) for forcing his love or feeling toward her and burden her in worst way ever to threat to kill her man ! 

then I asked myself why to feel this anger despite being kdrama fan for long time and loving the bad guy vib , JK is your bias , and So as well !!! 

then I got the answer ! simply because this drama is a masterpiece and brilliant production that got you totally absorbed in its story rather and beyond anything else !! 

~ how time can pass and you do not realize it , do not skip any scene , keep watching despite how tired you are and how sleep deprived you are !!!! 

this is my way of knowing how a unique / wonderful drama that I am watchimg !!! 

 

~ Jun Ki oppa is brilliant actor , never got a second thought about this belief ! 

but I have belived that he needs a drama to be his mega hit after his military discharge , at the league of SeGa, MLFTS and DOTS .. not necessarily this kind of dramas but as good as his dramas ilijime or time between dog and wolf . 

i have been desperately waiting for this and glad he makes it in this work .. still it did not do well domestically but I can feel the I- hype , it's like never have been to such a drama before ML yet !! at least by following the comment section for various website for watching this drama , the comments for each episode keep increasing and can reach > 2000 !!!! 

 

mmmmmm 

i ll end it here by ML ; Say yes say yes to this Daeback drama 

 

 

 

[mitheone]

I'm not good with words nor am I creative but I hope you'll enjoy another short strip that I made.  MLSHR keeps going through my head and I need an outlet...

 she says vs he says

 

[penelop3]

4 hours ago, cherryblossomkawai said:

Episode 11 convince me that YH was in love/felt genuine love toward WS. 

Before i wasn't sure since YH is searching for power. I always thought that she was into WS because he was the 4th prince ( liked by the king and not far from succesion ) and he wasn't married so she could become queen or more powerful. 

But i was wrong, happy to know YH is a very good antagonist and very smart at it. 

Not sure about Evil Queen, she's too arrogant and not likeable to last in this game. 

 

As for the others characters (SeoHyun and Eun's wife), they were introduced too late. 

I don't really care about them. I just see that they are eating few minutes of more WS and HS's scenes

 Especially, SeoHyun's characters who is mysterious but she isn't in enough scenes to be interesting. 

Plus we already have Ji Mong as an mysterious man. 

 

I think YH really was in love with WS. From the early episode she's shown her interest, eyes perk up whenever she sees WS, especially when she was dressing WS's wound in episode 3. What I'm most curious is, WS's feeling for YH before he's falling hard for HS. 

His saying to YH after she's dressing his wound, "I'm often wondered what you will grow up to be" - or something along those line, is interesting to analyze.  

[tessieroo]

THOUGHTS: MOON LOVERS EPISODE 12 KOREAN PREVIEW W/SUBS + PREVIEW STILLS

 

http://couch-kimchi.com/2016/09/30/thoughts-moon-lovers-episode-12-korean-preview-wsubs-preview-stills/

[AuroraSky]

4 hours ago, briseis said:

He’s been using those hands to hurt and to kill his whole life; he didn’t even know what it meant to be touched with tenderness until he met Hae Soo. But when So touches her he is always so unbelievably gentle - each touch an intimate caress that reveals his love and desire for her, each time trying to prolong it, loathe to let her go - THE TOUCH OF A LOVER

 

I really like this.  Can you do a juxtaposing gif with the looks he gives her while he is doing that?  I love the way he looks at her. So much longing and tender too.

[SizzlerZ]

12 hours ago, Akiddo said:

@SizzlerZ

Deep inside - I am just a die hard romantic.  

This show just unleashed all my romantic notions to the max. Haven't been like this since I don't know when. 

Forgot to add 4th Prince killed 8th and 9th. 14th was under "house arrest". 10th had to live carefully with his Wife but he had a happy ending. 13th died due to ill health. Historically,  Yongzheng himself died after 13 years on the throne - he worked very hard during his reign. His son- Qian Long - reigned for 60 years or so. Yongzheng paved the way for Qian Long to build a strong and prosperous China. 

 

Same goes for me @Akiddo. I haven't been like this in a very long time! 

I'm have no problem with the 4th prince killing the 8th and 9th but why was 14th under 'house arrest'? Was the 14th prince framed or falsely accused? I like the 14th prince but as he grows up he might get influenced by his mother or others aroundhim to become greedy of the throne or something...  

I haven't watched the C-drama and I don't know much about Chinese history so can you please tell me who Yongzheng is? Is he the 4th prince?

[Chickpea]

4 hours ago, itzibitzispider said:

History says so ... but I honestly fail to see how he could love that thing?

Maybe he only ever loves HS, married YH for status, family connections or whatever (he is already out of the "better" family ... you know keep your enemies close ... after HS died he might have had to marry yet another, but she failed to receive? And he just bedded YH out of obligation and the need of the "heir and spare"?

You do not need to love a person to bed her or get her with child. Might as well think about  refurnishing the library while at it. Count the days, look at the moon, wait for the astronomer and royal physician to tell you "Now" visit her bedchamber and roll over her (oh how romantic)
Might not work 100%, but at least saves you to bed her each night ...

The drama is leaning on history, not 100% copy-paste ... specially as we do not know for sure, what really happend or lead up to a conflict ... it's like a rumor "Did you hear that?" "He said ... and then, she did ... and you know what happend" and so on
Even the historians that wrote it down right away, might left something out (not to bring misfortune on their door) or added something (to get certain favors or shed a better light on their family).

Amen!  Like the disclaimer at the beginning of the drama states, the drama takes a creative license to history... But, seriously, when WS eventually finds out that YH was behind the attempted poisoning of the CP, and his own actual poisoning, and the death of Lady Oh and torture and almost-death of HS, I would be surprised if he doesn't kill her as a threat to the CP...  I'm actually hoping he does...  and here's another thing about history, as they say, it is "written by the victors" so the five children may or may not be the issue of WS and YH, they may just be the acknowledged heirs by the scribes of the time as royal children because the regents declared them so, i.e., they could be the King's children by another wife or concubine who is claimed as "her own" child by a barren Queen and this is what gets recorded for posterity.  I mean, a King must be seen as "virile", that father of the nation thing so its not far fetched to think that not all five children were the actual biological issue of the couple.

I hope the "creative license" goes this way...  HS intercedes with WS to spare YH's life when its revealed she was behind the poisoning.  The King's deathbed wish is that WS marry YH because even in his last moments he wants to dote on this pitiful piece of pathetic and wants her protected and he knows that among his sons there is no one else capable.  WS does his duty but also marries HS, or marries HS first but because of YH's position, she becomes first wife and HS second.  And this will kind-of fit with the historical record since I think I read the second wife was a Hae.  I know when I remarked on this the first time someone pointed out that the "Hae" in question was a niece or something.  Whatever.  For the purposes of the "creative license" the drama could be taking, the Hae of history could very well be Hae Soo.  Then this will superficially fit with the history.  But because HS is not of royal blood, her issue with WS would have to be "adopted" by YH for the children to be "royal blood" directly descended from Taejo and not diluted by WS marriage with a commoner.  After what WS went through with his half-brothers' fight for the throne, the last thing he would want would be that his children be used as political pawns by scheming families.  If his children are declared to be his issue with his (half-)sister (yuk!), there are no other puppet masters out there.  All the children are accepted to be his by his first wife, the daughter of his father Taejo.  In the end, then, he ends up doing the opposite of Taejo who attempted to use marriage as a political tool to unify the Kingdom.  In this scenario, there is one King, one family and one rule.

Happy weekend!

 

[jetsu]

20 minutes ago, penelop3 said:

 

I think YH really was in love with WS. From the early episode she's shown her interest, eyes perk up whenever she sees WS, especially when she was dressing WS's wound in episode 3. What I'm most curious is, WS's feeling for YH before he's falling hard for HS. 

His saying to YH after she's dressing his wound, "I'm often wondered what you will grow up to be" - or something along those line, is interesting to analyze.  

To me So treats YH like a sibling just like his other brothers.  If he has any special feelings for her he would have already told her that 'you are my person' before he had feelings for Soo.  So is someone who doesn't hold back his feelings. 

[SizzlerZ]

49 minutes ago, tessieroo said:

THOUGHTS: MOON LOVERS EPISODE 12 KOREAN PREVIEW W/SUBS + PREVIEW STILLS

 

http://couch-kimchi.com/2016/09/30/thoughts-moon-lovers-episode-12-korean-preview-wsubs-preview-stills/

 

 

 

Is this scene going to be in episode 12 or 13? 

 

[freckledcontessa]

Thank you all for being nice and welcoming and respectful. Been a member for hours and I can say that in this thread all members show and practice the aforementioned attitudes of a mature fans. 

Back on topic, WW and WS differs in a way that they are opposite. WW takes but WS gives. WW is used to always on the receiving side, the love of Lady Hae towards him exemplifies it best. And when he asked Lady Oh for her life in exchange of HS is plain cowardice. On the other hand, WS is always there for HS. I can't forget when he said that it's okay for HS to throw the hairpin he gave her. The statement to me showed how he is as man and as an admirer. I would love to go on but at the end of the day, this is a drama, and the story depends on the writer. I so admire the writer for writing such lines and the subbers for they translate to the world the meaning of words being said on the screen. I really hope this drama will be nominated and ultimately win at the awards night. 

 

9 hours ago, jetsu said:

To me So treats YH like a sibling just like his other brothers.  If he has any special feelings for her he would have already told her that 'you are my person' before he had feelings for Soo.  So is someone who doesn't hold back his feelings. 

 

Ditto on all counts. Especially the affection of WS towards YH. It's more of sisterly affection. 

[Akiddo]

25 minutes ago, SizzlerZ said:

 

Same goes for me @Akiddo. I haven't been like this in a very long time! 

I'm have no problem with the 4th prince killing the 8th and 9th but why was 14th under 'house arrest'? Was the 14th prince framed or falsely accused? I like the 14th prince but as he grows up he might get influenced by his mother or others aroundhim to become greedy of the throne or something...  

I haven't watched the C-drama and I don't know much about Chinese history so can you please tell me who Yongzheng is? Is he the 4th prince?

@SizzlerZ My apologies...I was too presumptuous. 

4th and 14th Prince shared the same birth mother - Consort De. 14th was the favourite son of both Emperor Kangxi and Consort De. He was in 8th prince's camp and was supposed to be the next in line to the throne after winning major war victories. 4th Prince - when he became Emperor Yongzheng - sent him to guard the royal tomb to take him out of politics - my guess it was to remove a major threat and give Yongzheng one less reason to kill his brother. 14th was placed in house arrest after Ruoxi died. The two brothers were loggerheads from the 1st episode till the last episode in BBJX. 14th prince's house arrest is recorded in history as well.