[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner

[dhia205]

4 minutes ago, solelylurking said:

Really? Is it really FF not future analysis? I don't want the mods here get mad at me for doing it.. 

it's FF for sure, but i didn't read it. well than ask the moderator, i think it's not forbid tho (because in other thread i saw it too) 

[churasan]

@solelylurking  @here4da0ppas   (Sorry I don't know why my quote thing isn't working...)

I liked reading your posts about the 14th Prince's character development.   In the original BBJX, he was one of my favorite princes because I really liked how his character and relationship developed with Ruoxi.  In this version, I also like his character as well because he genuinely worries about HS's well-being without being possessive.  Perhaps, it's because he is young and doesn't actually know what he wants yet like WW and WS.  But, even in the original, he did respect her and give her space. 

I am interested to see how Jung will mature in this version.  One thing I never quite figured out (in the original) if the 14th Prince ever had "romantic" feelings (like the 8th/4th princes). A lot of things were subtle in that drama that my dense self maybe could have missed it.  There were some points at the end that made me think so, but years later to this day, I am still  not sure.    I could understand Ruoxi's relationship with the princes (whether it was love or friendship), except with the 14th prince.  So I am interested to see how it is portrayed in this version. 

[tessieroo]

Found this on Twitter but now I'm confused...is Woo Hee somehow involved in a plot to kill the King?  So BOTH the King and the Crown Prince have people trying to kill them. (not that I'm surprised by that) 

 

[Lady_Lara]

2 minutes ago, LoveSG said:

No worries, I am sure this is the tipping point, destroying Soo's trust in Wook. She believed Wook is not lustful for authority and power but if she is proven wrong, her heart will definitely slip away from Wook. She has already started to have feelings for So but is uncertain because of the fact she thought he is Gwangjong and will kill his brothers. 

 

Ep 11 should be the turning point in her romantic relationships. 

But don't you have the feeling that Hae Soo love for Wang So is gonna be just a mixture of gratitude and fear? It's like she will be so afraid him turning to a monster and tiran so she will decide to stay with him? Im not sure that her love is gonna be deep and sincere as Wang So love for her:(( Hae So is currently the main frastrating heroine of 2016 for me:((

[larinalove]

9 hours ago, pujajain said:

I would say you are measuring So with modern sensibilities. There are several things at play at the same time-

1) This is Goryeo where alpha male are revered and women are chattels. King loves Yeon Hwa but she has no right to choose her husband for that matter neither did WE. Prince Yo openly encroaches Princess Yeon Hwa's personal space.  Yeon Hwa openly ties and beats up Soo even though she was a noble lady. In this period, a person's right are determined by his place in hierarchy of  power/birth. Here you are talking about a prince and a mere palace maid.  Hae Soo has been given to So as his responsibility. In ugliest version, he has right to use her as he wishes without any recourse. There is a reason why Lady Oh protects all her girls like lioness and discourages the interaction between them and royalty. They have the capability to abuse these girls without any punishment. From So's perspective, she is his responsibility and he has got king's permission, no one has a right to take her from him unless king changes his mind. The very fact that he is listening to her and keeping calm is the ultimate proof of his respect and affection. WS has not taken her choice, she never had any choice once she decided to come back to palace or thwart the king by scarring her wrist. This is what So warned her when she decided to come back to palace. 

He probably also believes that he is best suited to stand by her and protect her more so after knowing that she tends to CP and his mother has taken an offense to So. Almost in all the scenarios, all the princes were there but none of them lifted a finger to help her. Is this the kind of behaviour you would expect from a loved one? Again in current scenario Soo is supposed to be only 16yrs old and an innocent...what would she know about what love means and how to survive. What she and Wook are experiencing is a crush, they have no understanding of each other's nature or life. When Wook promised to fill his house with soap-making supplies, it underlined this ery point. Even without So in picture, I would have seen clearly that Wook has no chance of ever getting her as his first wife.He is living a pipe dream, he will only end up offending the king. His family is very ambitious and why would king allow him to marry her when he can form another political alliance with WW's marriage. More so how can WW marry someone that was once asked to serve another prince with all its underlying implications? The best he can get is her is as concubine or his maid at this point. I found it interesting that despite all his possessiveness, So never asked for her as his wife because he is smart enough to understand that would never work.

2) I did not think, his comment about wanting to kill her lover had any bite. It was more like an offhand comment. Again practically what she feels is immaterial in the current scenario, she has no power or choice. If the king decided to make her a slave and gift her to someone, she would have had to suck it up and go. All that matters is that she is So's for now and if she makes a lot of trouble, he would be forced to act.

3) So is very observant and more so in case of Soo. I found it funny that he zeroed in on Baek Ah. Was it because he knew that he was a pretty boy that all women fall for or because he is aware of friendly relationship between them or because he would have been discomfited by the fact that the woman he cares about is pinning after his favorite brother. He never considers a possibility that WW might be one and there is a reason behind it, their attraction does not show. Compare this to the attraction between So and Soo, everyone seems to be aware of it at some level.

4) So can see Soo feels something for him that goes beyond normal compassion. Yeon Hwa is the one with the compassion. He can sense the initial bond and attraction even if Soo cannot understand it yet.

 

 

WOW, just wow, I wish I can like your comment a thousand times! From the first letter to the last one I agree completely, what an eloquent, well put and insightful description of the relationship and the differences between WS-HS-WW.

We have to constantly remind ourselves that this is 10'th century Goreyo and evaluate the situations without our modern sensibilities blocking our perceptions. Yes it's true, no person should be owned or forced to do anything they don't want to  but WS from the very first moment he started to see HS differently has listened to her intently, has remembered what she has said to him, he even many times applied and incorporated her moral values in his speeches and thoughts, he was there for her many times, saving her from YH beating, giving actual and practical advice about the life in palace, reminding her that if entering there would be no escaping, asking the King to give her to him so he can protect her and keep her close, he is a go getter, not a pretty words no action man, he sees her as his responsibility and clings to her because she and BA are the only ones that saw him for more than what people made him out to be and of course he won't let it go easily.

For the mere fact that HS has still not reciprocated his feelings in the way he wants to and him still going as far as risking his life for her and as we will see go to any measure to save her for any sane person is enough to think he does deserve her, whether she wants him or not that's up for discussion.  

[Nymeria289]

@churasan 14 the was and is my dream prince. I still think Rouxi should've loved him with her whole heart. But despite my love for Ji-Soo, his 14th is criminally underdeveloped so those little moments mean a lot to me. I hope they find a way to show his growth. Like how the whole poison plot that his mother designed has Hae-Su being tortured and ends with an innocent losing his life.

[Gabi Bros]

33 minutes ago, clarissasan said:

I think the writer will keep trolling us  lol. He wants to make the story and the characters more unpredictable. Look at Hae Soo, I mean she is really different from herself in the first few episodes (I re-watched the episodes and who was this firm and positive girl before?!! I mean yeah the situation can change someone, I'm not denying it. And I know being in love can change people.) Hae Soo was cheated by his bf in the present but she doesn't look as aware as a woman who already being let down by a man. I don't know how long the time has passed since HS and WW are getting closer and like each other, it surely grows HS's trust to WW. But the love blinded her from making logical decision. 

I think she treated her last boyfriend the same way she treated Wook. All in her screams: UNEXPERIENCED. She gave me the vibes of those girls that get in love easily with the illusion of a man (not the real man) and try to pleased the man in everything, never complaining...not letting out her real self...because probably in her mind she is thinking that if she does not do that, the man will love her less.  

[LoveSG]

6 minutes ago, churasan said:

@solelylurking  @here4da0ppas   (Sorry I don't know why my quote thing isn't working...)

I liked reading your posts about the 14th Prince's character development.   In the original BBJX, he was one of my favorite princes because I really liked how his character and relationship developed with Ruoxi.  In this version, I also like his character as well because he genuinely worries about HS's well-being without being possessive.  Perhaps, it's because he is young and doesn't actually know what he wants yet like WW and WS.  But, even in the original, he did respect her and give her space. 

I am interested to see how Jung will mature in this version.  One thing I never quite figured out (in the original) if the 14th Prince ever had "romantic" feelings (like the 8th/4th princes). A lot of things were subtle in that drama that my dense self maybe have missed it.  There were some points at the end that made me think so, but years later to this day, I am still  not sure.    I could understand Ruoxi's relationship with the prices (whether it was love or friendship), except with the 14th prince.  So I am interested to see how it is portrayed in this version. 

I believe he sees her as his older sister or perhaps having a crush on her but he respects her feelings and gives her the freedom she needs. Pure affection for her, not seeking to possess her love. At least this is my opinion.

[aypopa]

the bad one and the g

 

[LoveSG]

1 hour ago, tessieroo said:

Found this on Twitter but now I'm confused...is Woo Hee somehow involved in a plot to kill the King?  So BOTH the King and the Crown Prince have people trying to kill them. (not that I'm surprised by that) 

Gosh, i totally love this scene! But it was missing in the international version that I am watching  I gonna watch the online SBS subbed versions then... Sigh, why delete such an informative scene? *pulls out hair*

[solelylurking]

@churasan if we want to based on the C vers, 14th will eventually fall in love with HS. Enough to make him resent 4th till the end and have the courage to act on the previous King's order that he can marry HS on it. He will later be the one who save HS from the palace and give her a life of peace with his other wive. He even told his wives to respect HS even when he knew HS love someone else. 

But 14th must go to battles first before he matures. He kept his promises to HS that he will a man she can look forward to and admire in the future. I like his character back then, because his love is the one that make RX free again, unlike the others. Even 4th's love to me is a confined one in that verse. He make her do and feels something she shouldn't ileventhough it seems he really love her. Maybe it's because the C vers weighing heavily on the games of throne. 

I just hope the K vers will put something different because emotionally and character wise, WS is different from the 4th in C vers. 

[violet90]

14 minutes ago, Lady_Lara said:

But don't you have the feeling that Hae Soo love for Wang So is gonna be just a mixture of gratitude and fear? It's like she will be so afraid him turning to a monster and tiran so she will decide to stay with him? Im not sure that her love is gonna be deep and sincere as Wang So love for her:(( Hae So is currently the main frastrating heroine of 2016 for me:((

 

WS side its always love.. nothing else in term of his relationship with HS... for HS its always the understanding and caring for WS as a human being not someone she love... you can't demand her love right off bat cause she never saw him like that.. in a romantic way and later on HS felt responsible because of her WS change and she worries about how WS will end up as KG...

like IU said later on there something happen that make all the understanding and caring also responsible turn into a real love.. HS character is nothing but a human being.. we can't force someone to love someone so right now its their turning point to have that love...

for now we see WS sacrifice for HS but trust me later on HS going to sacrifice her believe , her freedom , and her own heart to love WS... in BBJX because of love to 4th she became a maid and suffer... 

both of them will sacrifice a lot to love each other and this is the core of this story...

[Mona Ys]

woaaaah... finally able to catch up 20+pages, this thread is moving super fast!!!

First of all, thank you for the live recaps, video clips, pics and the insights. Waaaaah what an episode! I am so frustrated watching WS drinking all the tea... and again, LJG's acting is DAEBAK!! How did he manage to do the shaking and the neck veins all pop out like that, you can feel he was in so much pain... OMG!  

Now I really need to get some sleep but I can't wait for the next episode tomorrow... Please HS, wake up, this man is really really love you.... what are you thinking???? 

 

[Dundee]

28 minutes ago, churasan said:

@solelylurking  @here4da0ppas   (Sorry I don't know why my quote thing isn't working...)

I liked reading your posts about the 14th Prince's character development.   In the original BBJX, he was one of my favorite princes because I really liked how his character and relationship developed with Ruoxi.  In this version, I also like his character as well because he genuinely worries about HS's well-being without being possessive.  Perhaps, it's because he is young and doesn't actually know what he wants yet like WW and WS.  But, even in the original, he did respect her and give her space. 

I am interested to see how Jung will mature in this version.  One thing I never quite figured out (in the original) if the 14th Prince ever had "romantic" feelings (like the 8th/4th princes). A lot of things were subtle in that drama that my dense self maybe could have missed it.  There were some points at the end that made me think so, but years later to this day, I am still  not sure.    I could understand Ruoxi's relationship with the princes (whether it was love or friendship), except with the 14th prince.  So I am interested to see how it is portrayed in this version. 

 

I think 14th do had romantic feelings to RX, as he mentioned something when he hold RX's ashes after he realized he was the cause of RX's letter to 4th was not read on time, about RX and him was separated by thin door, i forgot the exact words. Though his goal at first was to become her best friends as her with 13th.  He asked her if she would do for him like she had done for 13, i think that was some certain feelings he had for her beyond only friends. In this drama atm the 14 character was not developing much, but prob it will change when the drama progress, since 14 is quite important character to RX.

[enigmatic_zephy]

44 minutes ago, rumasa79 said:

 

Well, they don't deserve each other then? :))))

i have no reason to say that.. 

WS might come across as less respectable guy for you, but he pretty much saved her life quite few times already. He stood up for her in front of his family and his evil mom. He was ready to give up everything to run away with her. He is not a calculating man when it comes to love, given that he have not received much since he was just a kid. He's a go-getter kinda guy because he knows he's never been privileged to wish for anything before. He's a man of his words, he says what he thinks and he's committed to his words. He's not hiding behind pretty words.

so since he saved her, he has right to kill the one she loves? Just because he saved her, she should be obligated to love him? Just because he can't control his hormones, she should give in? Just because he is a go-getter, it is alright for him to behave in this manner towards a woman who is telling him that she is committed? - Till the time he didn't know, I have no qualms abt his behavior (even the kiss in ep 9 - i really didn't criticize it) .. but today , now that he knows.. everything he does for her now on is meaningless.. it will never be true or pure love.. it will always be forced love.. because even if HS falls for him tomorrow.. its not out of her own volition.. it isn't.. its because he did not leave her with any options.. and then it just became that way... WS can NEVER have the satisfaction of knowing that HS chose him out of her own free will... NEVER..

Who is hiding behind pretty words?? WS is doing exactly what Yo is doing to YH

WS's character is written that way and from my modern POV, he might come as obsessive and pushy. But I admit that I admire this production to consistently portray So as how his character written in the novel. No matter how uncomfortable he may look to some viewers, it's not always about how gorgeous the actor who plays him (thank God for LJG tho') or how nice a leading man should act, for me it's about presenting a layered lead character, not merely black and white, a hero needs to be provocative and mind-challenging too.

See that is exactly where my disconnect is.. the personality type is not consistent..for WS.. a man so deeply in love.. can go for a forced kiss.. but whatever set up they had built.. once he knows that she loves and not befriends but loves someone else.. WS would have never uttered those silly words.. WRITING is off... totally off.. it does not go down with the character.. simply because, if this statement is part of his character then he would have killed 3rd and 14th prince long back..because he would not share his mother.. Its a major deviation from what other aspects of WS are highlighted...

And quite honestly , I find it super immature of others to say that WS's definition of love is more pristine than Wooks or anyone else... frnakly if there is someone who has truly loved HS for who she is.. and is genuinely a benifactor than that's 10th prince.. NOONE can keep HS more happy than 10th can...

I need Soo to step up from her naivety that's been going on for 10 friggin' episodes. Maybe she's written this way but honestly I'm pretty much worn out. 

What naivety??? 

In this case, let's just agree to disagree, shall we? On logic no, on preferences yes!

I still wish for So&Soo to at least acknowledge each other's feeling. They both deserve to be happy even for a bit since the game of thrones will only get nasty!

 

 

[LoveSG]

13 minutes ago, Nymeria289 said:

@churasan 14 the was and is my dream prince. I still think Rouxi should've loved him with her whole heart. But despite my love for Ji-Soo, his 14th is criminally underdeveloped so those little moments mean a lot to me. I hope they find a way to show his growth. Like how the whole poison plot that his mother designed has Hae-Su being tortured and ends with an innocent losing his life.

I totally agree! The character focus so far has been on WS, HS and WW, the other characters are just supporting the main ones. To be honest it is a little too little to cram the essence of a story totalling 35 episodes into 20 episodes  Many things get to be changed to fit into a shorter version. Till now, 14th Prince is one of the least developed character, same with 9th and even 10th. Interestingly 3rd prince, a new character has quite a lot of development going on. Well, since he is a villain, the writer will need to craft him as well as the protagonists.

For HS, WS drinking poison for her sake is bound to make her thankful for him and even touched by his self-sacrifice, showing her his feelings for her. In the past she was afraid of him because she did not understand him well but now she understands how much he is willing to do things for her, it is hard not to fall in love with him. Feeling touched by his feelings is the first step towards falling in love with him, I would say. 

[hiluna]

41 minutes ago, clarissasan said:

 

PS : what HS said to herself when WW ask her to marry him, including "I can trust this man, this man will never change, he wont hurt me, he will make me happy" it was like seeking for stable and secure life, not love.  hmmm 

I think one of the reason she was sent back was to learn a lesson from the past in order to move on in the 21st century. She said to the homeless guy at the beginning that she thought that if she didn't change those close to her will not change but her best friend and boyfriend changed because she was too trusting. She was probably the same in all her reincarnations, the cycle (karma) has to be broken in order for her to meet her soulmate. This point in her historical past could have been the start of the cycle and she is given the chance to change it by not trusting WW who will eventually betray her.

[pujajain]

22 minutes ago, Lady_Lara said:

Agree with you! And to be honest Im a little bit tired of waiting for HaeSo developing feelings for Wang So:(( when is this going to happen?! in 15th, 18th or 20th episode?! Come on, guys, it's already the half of the drama and all what we can see-it's mutual love between Wook and Soo, and Wang So who interferes in it. Maybe I'm wrong and Wang So is actually the second lead?! This lovey-dovey dating with Wang Wook in cave with candles -it pisses me off! I'm sooo disappointed with the 10th episode (not with the story or Junki acting -it's perfect) but the love feelings! Now I even have a feeling -may be we should bless our Wook-Soo couple and leave them alone?! Let them get married, go to the honeymoon around Asia and have a lot of babies?! Let them be happy with each other?! sorry, guys, but I'm so pissed off! Poor Wang So -he even put his life in line just to protect Hae So but I'm not sure that she wil ever be able to understand this action for her!

What is interesting is that she feels comfortable denying So despite believing the premonition that he is this cruel ruthless person with no humanity...the irony that is inherent in her behavior is amazing. She also not learning from her experiences in modern world before she got there. I feel like she is in love with this idea of perfect love that she believes she shares with Wook. One that is not messy and bitter which is why she never complains when she is around him. He is her fantasy world.

I also believes she feels a sense of kinship and trust with So and enjoys her time with him. She is fascinated by him, admires him and share thoughts openly (which is another type of mature love, just one not many poets wax about). So was right  and being mature when he said there was little difference between friendliness and love for him. She would never examine her feelings for So honestly until she entertains a possibility that she might not love WW after all and she is not there yet. 

The torture and lady Oh's death along with everyone's helplessness will force her to re-evaluate her feelings and place in the world. Does Wook understand her trauma when she lost lady Oh? Is he ready to help her at his cost?

 

[enigmatic_zephy]

53 minutes ago, hiluna said:

I think in his mind she already belongs to him whether she loves him or not. He has already told her a few times that she was his and he is never going to let her go. He is a prince and she is a maid (given to him by the king). You have to remember that this is 10th Century Goryeo. He only has Baek and her so he isn't going to be a wimp and let her go to another man, it would not be in character.

How is demanding another man's woman to serve his needs being Not a wimp???

Like i said, up until she told him that she loves someone else, i had no issues with WS. Had she been single at this point in time and told him she does not love him and had he said these same words.. i still would have understood. Talking of that era, you need to understand then people were more tolerant of a woman spoken for.. it would be extremely wrong to go after such a woman.. unlike modern times where two timing or extra marital or cheating is so common..What WS is doing goes against his own charactor, morez of the society in that era.. its wrong through and through

Much that we like to think that he may express his love by letting her go to another, we have to think again that his character is ruthless and he had very little love in his life and will hold on to the little that he has, be it friendship/love, both are the same for him.  I haven't watched the episode yet and we will probably not see much of So tomorrow, probably just on his deathbed fighting for his life and at the end with the rain scene, but I think So's love for HS is not the "romantic" type of love shown between WW and HS, but a deeper "soulmate" type that demands complete ownership, he has expressed it as "I am yours" and "you are mine" so it is an unusual love/romance that is different from what we expect of a kdrama. I don't think this is lazy writing at all.

So then people need to decide. if you call him ruthless then you can't call his love pure and pristine...then its about fulfilling his own desires..whatever they be..

Ruthlessness comes into the picture when he does to extreme lengths for her to protect her - be killed or kill.. NOT when he tells her that she has no right to love anyone because the moment she does that he would kill her..

If the king would have married HS.. would that have been good? He could just kill HS to not abide by his rules.. would that have been ok? Is Yo ok in threatening YH?? Infact yo has been more respectful to YH than WS is to HS right now..

I get it.. that he loves her.. and she is his lifeline..and he wouldn't know how to survive without her..so it is right to express love, tell her he is going to actively pursue her.. everything i can understand up until the point she tells him that she loves someone else!..Before he knew that, i honestly have no issues with any of his actions. Infact had he told her that he will still pursue her till she gets married..i would have been fine. BUT he literally outrightly threatened her.. and that very moment is where.. for eternity.. this love story falls short of being an epic love saga..

 

[clarissasan]

1 hour ago, Gabi Bros said:

I think she treated her last boyfriend the same way she treated Wook. All in her screams: UNEXPERIENCED. She gave me the vibes of those girls that get in love easily with the illusion of a man (not the real man) and try to pleased the man in everything, never complaining...not letting out her real self...because probably in her mind she is thinking that if she does not do that, the man will love her less.  

THIS!!!

I feel pity for Hae Soo  I understand why she did that and you're exactly right because the girl doesn't want the man to love her less. It's pathetic. Advice to many girls here, please consider leaving your boyfriend if you're starting to change to become someone you don't like / worse than before. 

I think this drama give us many hidden good lesson lol

 

46 minutes ago, hiluna said:

I think one of the reason she was sent back was to learn a lesson from the past in order to move on in the 21st century. She said to the homeless guy at the beginning that she thought that if she didn't change those close to her will not change but her best friend and boyfriend changed because she was too trusting. She was probably the same in all her reincarnations, the cycle (karma) has to be broken in order for her to meet her soulmate. This point in her historical past could have been the start of the cycle and she is given the chance to change it by not trusting WW who will eventually betray her.

yesss she is too trusting that's why it's easier to be disappointed too  and by the spoiler I think she will be disappointed with WW too... poor HS.... Hope the writer will make HS learn her lesson in other next episodes.