[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner

[Adnana]

1 hour ago, violet90 said:

sorry about misunderstand your post but So already make it clear that he won't allow or give permission if she want to get out or leave him.. even Jung decree could not make So let Su goes and only with WW confession he letting her go..

i don't think So would understand on why Soo need to get out from palace.. she can't make him understand and all that will arise from their confrontation is So will use his royal status to hold Su.. that's just going to make it worse.. 

but its just my understanding on why she don't discuss first with So cause nothing will make a difference... even when she get mad about CR you can see So lashing out to BA and knowing she want to leave him??? that  a scary thing to witness for me... 

@violet90 "So would [not] understand on why Soo need to get out from palace" But how can you [Soo] KNOW for sure before you actually TELL him?? I completely agree with you that the lack of communication between these 2 people drives me crazy.

"she don't discuss first with So cause nothing will make a difference..." Again, how can you know--how, how, how?... 100% certain, positive, confident without any shadow of a doubt?

"even when she get mad about CR you can see So lashing out to BA and knowing she want to leave him???" But Soo didn't get to see that. Only us[the viewers].

The last time So specifically told Soo he wouldn't let her leave him was before his marriage to Yeonhwa, at a point in time when Soo too said that she would stick with him. I know I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but if Soo changed her mind in the meantime (about leaving), why shouldn't So have changed his as well (about letting her leave)?

Disclaimer: @violet90 @whyo I actually agree with your understanding of the situation, and that the entire debacle (WS/HS relationship breakdown) is due to miscommunication and insufficient trust between them. Or if not insufficient trust (eg. the scene where they eat together, each troubled, but each staying silent) then an extreme desire to protect and avoid burdening the other which unfortunately leads to ignoring their partner's agency instead of working towards a solution together--and that attitude of keeping the other in the dark in order to protect ends up hurting their relationship the most. So it's not that I don't agree with you, but I love debating, and in this particular instance I especially feel the need to take a stand against people's unfounded prejudice, in general. And Soo's in particular, of course.

@violet90, I'm with you when you say that So won't want to let Soo go at first, that is my gut feeling and my belief--but it is still a prejudgment (because I am just guessing So's reaction before I see it actually play out) and very unfair (because without actual solid evidence I'm assuming the worst, like Soo probably does. @whyo, it is debatable if Soo really knows So so well as to know his reaction ahead of time. I suppose you're right in this instance, but I still got a bone to pick with her for not allowing room for that 0.1% chance that she's misjudging him).

Anyway, what I mean by "actual solid evidence" that would go in the way of justifying such a harsh assumption re: So's possible reaction? Maybe if So had reiterated his statement to Soo (about keeping her with him, no matter what) recently, if he had acted particularly unhinged or possessive with her--but if anything, he's been fairly distant after marrying Yeonhwa (judging by what the drama has deigned to show us). Best of all would have been to see a scene like in C-BBJX, with the heroine expressly trying and being stopped by 4th Prince from leaving him, before she asked 14th's help. If anything like what I described had happened in SHR--yes, those would be acceptable reasons to justify expecting the worst from So. But for Soo to just prejudge and assume the worst without real evidence--that is even weirder in the context of this drama, where in the past we've seen So choosing, again and again, to respect Soo's wishes. In fact, up until now, I don't think there's been a single instance where So expressly went against Soo's will (except for forced kiss in E9, which I would actually argue was an eye-opening experience for him in that it taught him a valuable lesson about being mindful of Soo's boundaries).

Essentially, I am firmly against prejudging people, in general, and in favor of giving them the benefit of the doubt, especially if they're people you love. I think that unlike in the C-drama, Soo in SHR doesn't have sufficient justification to assume the worst of So's reaction to her intended departure, and I resent that, as things stand, he's just going to be blindsided by what's to happen. Maybe Soo won't even get to tell him about her intention to leave him, so he still thinks they're fine--and then suddenly he sees Jung in Court with Yo's marriage decree in hand? That can't be okay, anyway you slice it.

That Soo has summoned Jung can't be helped now, but I hope that at least before he arrives, she warns So--not about Jung, but about her intention to leave. I mean, in real life, you don't leave with another guy before breaking up with your current boyfriend, do you? Normally. As far as I know.

And I wish SHR's writer would stop trying to shoehorn the classic scenarios from C-BBJX in the K-drama, when they don't fit the context of the K-drama well.

[40somethingahjumma]

Normally when I’m on the job at DSS, I try to stay away from Soompi until I’m done but since I’ve been summoned I will try to address an issue that has been raised with me here. Moreover, a few different thoughts emerged while I was working through the subs for Ep. 17 so while it’s fresh in my mind I may as well put it all down here.

One of the big controversies that came out of Ep. 18 was why HS decided to leave So’s side when she promised him that she wouldn’t ever leave him even if everyone else deserts him. Many answers have been given and I’ve contributed to that discussion already so I will try not to rehash any of those responses.

On a superficial level the question seems valid and obvious. But I’d like to ask a less obvious and more interesting question. Maybe a better question even.

(Indulge me while I put on my teacher hat.)

Instead of asking why Su's breaking her promise, I'd to consider the type of scenario would compel Su to break her promise to leave So.

Why is it that she can put up with polygamy, non-marriage, dying and ruthless purges but there’s one line that she can’t cross?

What is the one thing that Su fears the most where So is concerned?

What is the recurring theme behind Su’s fear of Gwangjong attaining the throne? What is she continually saying to him as he takes closer steps towards the throne?

And why would she go off with that first class boofhead (as we say in the Australian vernacular), Jeong (aside from the fact he has most probably got a get out of jail free card) when she acknowledges to some degree that he is a boofhead.

Let's think about that.

(Ridiculously long post coming up)

Spoiler

 

For me the answer is actually quite simple. It’s the horror of Gwangjong killing his brothers.

Note how it was her only condition for supporting his bid to becoming King. Her words were: “Not killing your brothers, can you do that?”

Oddly enough she doesn’t ask him to be a good or a wise king like Gen Pak does. It’s the brother killing that she vociferously objects to. I think she knows that he will have to kill at some point but she is adamant that family cannot be touched. However, it isn’t just to appease her sensibilities that she adopts this as her mantra. She also knows that killing family wounds So deeply. He hates it but he will do it if necessary or pressed.

And when he finally dons his kingly robes, her voice over resolve is to stop him from becoming the bloody monster that he was recorded in history to be.

This theme began really early… it was probably her single most important memory of Gwangjong when it dawned on her that she was back in Goryeo. The notion that Gwangjong was a reputed brother killer dominates her entire perception of not only of Gwangjong but of the throne.

She had an inkling early on that one of these 7 men would end up being Gwangjong. At first her thoughts went to Uk because she was in a kind of romantic relationship with him. Just before entering Damiwon, she speculated that one of the 5 princes within earshot would be Gwangjong and then quickly dismissed that notion out of hand. Such cute and cuddly boys… none of them could possibly be the tyrant that she’s heard about. Could they?  And it’s the attachment to the cute and cuddly boys that really influences much of her entire trajectory and thinking on the subject. 

Still that entire line of thought doesn’t get revisited until the rain ritual episode where she helps So to conceal his scar and gives him the confidence to seize the moment. On that occasion, as he approaches the altar, she receives her first premonition… Wang So, the 4th Prince, is the infamous Gwangjong. Unbeknownst to her, she had helped him take his first significant step towards the throne. This revelation sends her into a tizzy.

Just as when they both get closer because of this event, fate intervenes and causes her to distance herself from him. She’s torn between wanting to rescue him from his tyrannical future and not being sure that she can.

On Eun’s wedding day, she receives her second premonition. She witnesses the brothers giving away presents and having a great o’l time laughing. Suddenly she sees a vision of So, sword in one hand, and a dead Eun. The conclusion is… He will kill his brother who may be silly but is largely harmless.

This sends Su into a panic attack. It confirms her greatest fear. Gwangjong will become a tyrant that kills his brothers. Has she been aiding and abetting a tyrant and a murderer?

Therefore when he approaches her after being slighted by his mother, she rejects him in terror, telling him to pretty much take a hike where he can do no harm to anyone. In her panic-stricken state she tells him to back off because she’s afraid of him.

 

He doesn’t believe her of course. Why? He thinks she has seen the worse of him and yet they still manage to become friends. On that occasion when he asks her to run away with him, she tells him that she’s already got someone else. Whether he would seriously kill her unknown paramour, she’s not sure but she doesn’t say who it is. Nor does she open her mouth even when they are finally a thing and the other guy isn’t even in her radar any more. I imagine that even if Uk isn’t her “lover” any longer, he is still a brother and Su doesn’t want So killing his brothers, right?

Again we see that fate intervenes to keep them apart. The premonition keeps the fear fresh in her mind and away from him. At least for now.

But fate doesn’t want her ending up with Uk either so right before she can say “yes” to Uk, Lady O makes an appearance and puts an end to the cave “assignations.”

So isn’t held back by mere obstacles, of course so he proves over and over again that he really loves her and wants to be with her. It’s not just because he is set up as a contrastive romantic figure to Uk but it’s because it demonstrates very clearly why he (So) becomes king when Uk is relegated to the realm of plotting and scheming behind the scenes.

 

The theme of killing brothers emerges once again when Taejo is on his deathbed. So and Su are standing in the throne room staring at the seat in contention. They talk about what a terrible seat it is and she wants him to promise not to kill Uk when there’s a confrontation later. She feels responsible for his choices blah blah blah, So understands and agrees not to kill his brother because he doesn’t want to either.

Later, when Su confronts Uk about his duplicity, she is horrified that he was using her to kill the 4th Prince. But no harm’s done and she’s willing to give him a chance to get out of the palace and stop the self-destructive trajectory he’s on. Her pleas fall on deaf ears. He wants the throne for her sake. He needs the throne to protect her. She knows what that means… more plotting and scheming resulting in more brother killing and she doesn’t want to be a party to that. She certainly doesn’t want him to act against his brothers, which he will most likely do for her sake anyway.

After which she limps her way to see a very distraught So who regrets and weeps bitterly over having to kill his brother… a brother he didn’t like but a brother nonetheless.

Under Mu’s rule, Su does pretty well while she and So become closer. He doesn’t seem to harbor thoughts about being king so she’s pretty contented for them to be a couple. What she doesn’t know is that Mu is being poisoned slowly by CR who is a willing pawn in a larger conspiracy between Won and Uk. Whether Uk intended for Mu to die is another matter but Yo re-enters the picture changing the entire situation from abdication to outright fratricide.

So confides to Su on the night of the star-gazing that he too fears that it is destiny to become a brother killer, confessing that he was jealous about how his mother favoured Jeong. Again she comforts him and demonstrates empathy. He’s ridiculously happy and is ready to go to the next level with her.

However, fate intervenes once again and he feels compelled to marry into Mu’s family to protect him and the little princess. It’s a politically expedient move that would possibly mean breaking up with Su. After a series of misunderstandings, they kiss and make up. Literally.

Then of course, Yo usurps the crown easily by using Su as leverage. She is burdened by the fact that So was asked to make a hard choice because of her.

 

Yo, advised by Uk, begins his purge, which of course involves Eun. Again we see here Su acting on her fear that there would be brother killing by hiding Eun away in Damiwon. It was never really an issue of trust but her fear of the inevitability of the events depicted in the premonitions coming to fruition.

Although Eun’s killing did not unfold quite in the way that she had expected, it still took place. But she wasn’t repulsed by So but knew that he would be torn apart and hurt by it.

I don’t think we are meant to think that she caused Eun’s death but more that this event became the catalyst to So conspiring to take the crown after being absolutely fed up to the teeth with all the fratricide he’d been witnessing and had become a party to. It was an event that had to happen because it put Wang So on the path to kingship.

Putting an end to the tradition of brothers killing brothers became his key platform for being king. That was something that resonated with her despite her misgivings about him becoming King. Despite wanting to live more freely. But she stood by him because she wanted to be with him far more than she hated the throne.

Phew… okay…

 

So what does CR’s death have anything to do with the whole issue of brothers killing brothers?

At this point, it’s mostly conjecture on my part although I think that there’s enough material to say a few things.

According to So, CR was used in two ways: to infiltrate and to create problems for the ruling monarch and those under him. Her motivation was love but she was a pawn in a much bigger game of thrones. For her it didn’t matter what was at stake as long as she was doing it to please the man she loved. In Su’s eyes she was used and manipulated into undermining the throne by people more powerful than herself because it was a demonstration of her (CR’s) love. Furthermore CR was already a tool in the hands of Uk and Won long before the big grab for the throne started. That’s the tragedy for Su because CR thought she was doing it for love but the people who instigated her to do these things weren’t at all about love.

I also think that Su realized that Uk’s plotting and scheming for the throne in large part had to do with her. That being the case, it is most likely that his behind the scenes machinations won’t end unless she’s out of the picture (ie. out of So’s life and the palace) OR if Uk is dead, most probably convicted for treason.

This is why I cannot agree with the argument that the show should have spent less time on Su and Uk’s romance because Su is just as much a part of Uk’s trajectory in the game of thrones as he is in her love life. His entire bid for the throne comes from having been with her and having to let her go. He is also the mechanism through which fate holds So in check right up to his ascension.

The romance isn't the main point of the drama, the journey to getting the throne is. Love is primarily the vehicle for motivating the throne grab.

Su now realizes that the only way to stop all the deaths is to eliminate the enemy once and for all. The enemy here being family sadly. Brothers will have to kill brothers. However she can’t wait around and watch that happen. It is a repudiation of everything she has stood for all throughout her time in Goryeo. Aside from that, the weight of the guilt that she must be feeling knowing and thinking that as much as she tried to stop the brothers from killing each other, she was just as responsible for making it happen.

So why is she taking Jeong with her? And this part is purely speculative. My guess is it’s to protect him. If she can’t be the referee, then she has to try and save at least one brother. A full brother who has set himself at odds with the brother who is king. So was in so much pain over the first brother whom he thought he had killed and then the mother who never showed love to him. This is her way of preserving one full family member lest he live with even more regrets than he does now. But that’s just me guessing based on what we saw in a number of episodes including Eun’s death. It’s not necessarily a hill that I will die defending.

 

 

 

 

[AryRa]

24 minutes ago, Rose34 said:

Annyeong Eclipses! I just pm-ed my photo to @akinahana89 ! Lol, not in another world have I participated in such project, not after many years in K-entertainment. I must have looked weird to just take photo and went off from the landmark. Haha! I just tell myself I am doing a school project. Lol, what has this drama done to me?!!  

 

me too... this is my first time... doing this kind of stuff....

in the hectic afternoon, using bike and take picture in the jakarta port, and I told them this is my sister project   ... OMG 

but it's kind a fun... i used to take human interest picture... and couple times go to the port... but taking picture with the note this is the first... 

[junejungki]

42 minutes ago, Rose34 said:

Annyeong Eclipses! I just pm-ed my photo to @akinahana89 ! Lol, not in another world have I participated in such project, not after many years in K-entertainment. I must have looked weird to just take photo and went off from the landmark. Haha! I just tell myself I am doing a school project. Lol, what has this drama done to me?!!  

Anyways, I got over episode 18, just need one or two days got over it. Haha! I move on fast with things in recent years. So for the finale, I think maybe I need about a week to get over it, haha! Now that I get over episode 18, I just can't wait for the last two episode. You know what, no matter how anxious am I and knowing that it will be sooo tragic and my heart may be broken into pieces, I just can't wait for it to over.  Me praying for my mental and emotional health lol! No K-drama after this, no more watching ongoing episode per episode unless it is fluff, light, rom-com and not take it too seriously that I can laugh it off and still get real life going. 

 

This drama should have tragedy as one of it's tag and genre. If they put it, maybe I would have avoided the drama. I didn't know of BBJX before this as well. But tell you what, even if they put it, I will still be watching and get addicted to this drama because the story is so intriguing, compelling, with substance and depth. I can't remember the last time a K-drama does this to me.  

There is so much I want to say but I have no energy to even analyze and write in-depth post lol. This drama just zapped my energy, emotionally and mentally.  Like someone mentioned before, it is as if this is my relationship lol. 

I see some new faces here who just can't help but un-lurk themselves.   I was too lol!  Just a shout out for those who are still lurking, we only have 2 episodes left!! Better un-supress the thoughts and emotions, I have learnt it is not good in the long run to bottled up things but when doing so, express it in a good way! 

Lol finally know how to insert these emoticons. 

Same here. I was walking around taking picture with a piece o paper on my hand. Something that I wont do normally but for MLSHR, I am willingly look like a fool 

[Rose3]

19 minutes ago, AryRa said:

 

me too... this is my first time... doing this kind of stuff....

in the hectic afternoon, using bike and take picture in the jakarta port, and I told them this is my sister project   ... OMG 

but it's kind a fun... i used to take human interest picture... and couple times go to the port... but taking picture with the note this is the first... 

Woah! I salute your effort!!  Lucky someone didn't ask me. Hahaha! But if they asked, I would blurt out I am doing a school project too! Lol!

I know right. It was a busy afternoon for me too just now and that landmark is popular with many locals and tourists. Taking the picture is fine but with that note, it is as if I am preparing some proposal. And I quickly go back too! Haha! Introvert problem lols!  

But it is a good experience being out of comfort zone! Haha! 

10 minutes ago, junejungki said:

Same here. I was walking around taking picture with a piece o paper on my hand. Something that I wont do normally but for MLSHR, I am willingly look like a fool 

We are hopelessly in love with the drama!     Ready to go lengths for MLSHR! 

Edited October 28, 2016 by Rose34

[antiherofans]

2 minutes ago, Rose34 said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Oh my!! I salute your effort!     Lucky someone didn't ask me. Hahaha! But if they ask, I would blurt out I am doing school project too! Lol!

I know right. It was a busy afternoon for me too just now and that landmark is popular with many locals and tourists. Taking the picture is fine but with the note, it is as if I am preparing some proposal. And I quickly go back too! Haha! Introvert problem lols!  

 

 

Doing something/project for school is the best excuse for doing something crazy in front of public

Only God knows, how many time I used that line to save my life

[riuenu]

alright yeorobun....some update in the spoiler tag for Joongi..none SHR related btw

Spoiler

uri oppa ranked first in Global K stars ranking!!!

credit cuteLJG

 

And when I am complaining Joongi oppa got no CF...jjiang jjiang...

Lotte world new model!! <3 Credit to 2joongi

 

[roneddski]

5 hours ago, bitofmadness said:

Few more days until Moonday. They say a picture is worth a thousand words. So what is with that pout Woohee? 

 

4 hours ago, dramu51ch0c10ve said:

I think she's the next one to go from this drama in the next episode...

 

I actually fear for Woohee. I really hope that's not true.. Though spying is still a crime, it is not as heavy as poisoning a king.. With Soo having decided to leave the palace, the last thing I wish to see is a fallout between Baek Ah and So  It will be unimaginable

[UmmiN]

1 hour ago, churasan said:

Hi everyone!  Happy Friday!  Yay~!  I wanted to post about this week's episodes earlier, but something annoying called "my real life" got in the way of my SCR addiction this week.

@akinahana89  First off, thanks so much for putting together the Scarlet Heart Ryeo Project!

After last week's chaos with SBS's cancellation, leaked video, etc... and then reading one spoiler that WS left HS for 3 years in episode 16, I thought my sanity would not be able to take all the heartbreak, so I decided that maybe it would be better to just binge watch the last 4 episodes.  To take my mind off SCR last weekend, I even binged watched LJG's "2 Weeks" and SCR's rival drama "Moonlight Drawn By Clouds," but alas nothing can compare to SCR and I have no willpower against LJG.  So here I am again along with everyone else hanging from this week's cliffhanger.

After watching this week's episodes, I realized TWO things:

1. LJG should really play a villain in his next drama.  Maybe like how Go Kyun Jung played Mi Shil in Queen Seon Deok.  I'm so used to seeing him as the hero (which is fine), but I think he could play a smexy wicked villain just as well.  If I cannot get cute OTP moments anymore, then let's see how wicked King Gwangjong can get.

2. HS gets a lot of criticism, but I realized that she is a really good character after all.  A lot is thrown at the poor girl... not only all the palace politics, but even those crazy visions as well.  And even though she tries to do things with integrity and not hurt anyone, she always ends up with the short end of the stick.

We all know that WS did so many things for HS (drinking poison, trying to protect her, etc.), but I also think that HS has done a lot for WS as well.  She helped him cover his scar, pronounced him king after WY died, etc...  So I think they are both equal contributors to the relationship.  But in the end, WS got what he wanted (king), but poor HS still hasn't got (and will never get) what she wants - to be married to the one she loves.

On that note, it will make me really disappointed if WS pushes her away after he finds out about HS and WW's past relationship.  Some mentioned that she should have been honest to WS about WW earlier.  However, I feel that she was never dishonest to WS.  HS did tell WS that she loved someone else.  And in reality, she has no obligation to tell WS - especially when he first threatened to "kill" that person.   In addition, WS never told HS about the CP's daughter or YH.  HS always found out from a different source. Yet, when HS found out, she STILL did not abandon WS for this reason.  Therefore, I will be so sad if WS cannot be understanding of this as well.  When you choose to love someone, you should accept that person "as is" with their past and all.  If WS even THINKS of sleeping with YH just to hurt HS, that is crossing the line.

In episode 18, I understand that CR's death was justified. But, I do think HS's initial anger with WS was justified as well.  I loved that even WS was startled by her anger as it showed him that even though he king, she won't just idly stand by his side no matter what. I think in the end HS understands CR needs to be punished, but she still stands behind her belief that no one should be subjected to cruel and unusual punishment. Sometimes, we wonder when a heroine falls in love, they lose their backbone.  But, I'm glad she showed her true feelings to WS here.

Finally, if we can't have a happy ending for HS and WS, then I'm looking forward to next week when WS finds out HS has a way to leave him. When she's gone, only then he will fully understand the consequences of sacrificing her for the throne.  I think during his reign as king, he has started to take her for granted... always believing she will wait for him whether he comes to see her or not.  In the next preview, we see him telling her "I never want to see you again."  Well, buddy... be careful what you wish for.  I'm looking forward to WS's reaction when he finds out she has a hidden card to leave him - and in a way he could never have predicted.  Then, hopefully, he will truly regret caving in and marrying YH instead of his one true love. 

This is what I wanted to bring across everytime ppl bring up the CR stuff. Ppl just overlook the fact that shes angry that CR was being treated like a dog. i think from the beginning HS disagrees with the Goryeo style... she talked abt treating people like animals. She did not argue abt why CR was punished but more like HOW her punishment is being carried out. it's her 21st century mentality where when commiting crimes and such we want to be judged fairly. even accomplices gets punishment together with the mastermind. but here i feel that when she said CR's fault is being born a slave... not literally means that shes not in the wrong more like if you r being born a slave you have no choice, u cant say no to the mastermind and in the end d one suffering the burrito treatment is you (the slave) and not the mastermind coz people born with power are not easily punished (theres seems to b no punishment for Won, Wook and YH) even if theyre being punished, will they get the same punishment as CR as in being whacked while everyone's watching... 

i think this drama akes people see beyond the surface.. not simply taking things as it is but more in depth (read between the lines)..

For example people bashed HS for rejecting WS's proposal... but look into her eyes and notice the emotions within. It's forced rejection. She desperately wanna say yes but there's other circumstances that holds her back. Being the girl she is, she simply cant think of herself. though she wants her own happiness, at the same time she puts WS best interest ahead of her. You can feel from the tone of her voice.. while telling WS she's ok she's also at the same time trying to console herself into believing that shes really ok when shes not... Hear WS's respond to her, it seems like he know they hav too many obstacles to handle at the moment for them to be together and he understands her sadness just as she understands his..

Her wanting to get outta d palace is simply just coz she has had enuf.. like pls la enuf is enuf thats it. for us in real life when thing get soo hard soo tough and u feel miserable being trapped in all d "rubbish nonsensical" stuffs happening around you, will you just stay and be mentally depressed shrivelled and die or would you just pack n go... just blah! WS is not the only 1 who sacrificed, HS also sacrificed alot.. she sacrificed the secrets of her BB cream technique, her limbs, her emotions, her happiness, her bright smile, her laughter, her mental health, her love, her beloved, her "V" (if the lights out means they did it), her time and after all that people see her as useless and not loving WS enough.. to prove her love must she really stay, be like a kamikaze (as in sacrifice her health) be sick slowly shrivelled like a raisin n den die with messed up mind, health, emotions...

Just that alot of people are viewing things from WS's perspective (i know hes a hot royal with a pitiful painful past and enduring love) that i think it is unfair that HS pitiful on-going life is being taken easily (sorry my brain is abit woozy to come up with proper term). HS is young and shes already going thru alot.. she suffer then n now. most of 21st century women are living in d strawberry generation.. abit complain, more work complain, dress dirty complain, food not nice oso complain.. sooo i think she has indeed come a long long way since she first stepped into Goryeo in terms of her behaviour.

Apologies for the long post... i is cannot tahan.. have to rant n let things outta my system before i can digest more MLSHR...

[kiinn]

39 minutes ago, 40somethingahjumma said:

Why is it that she can put up with polygamy, non-marriage, dying and ruthless purges but there’s one line that she can’t cross?

What is the one thing that Su fears the most where So is concerned?

What is the recurring theme behind Su’s fear of Gwangjong attaining the throne? What is she continually saying to him as he takes closer steps towards the throne?

And why would she go off with that first class boofhead (as we say in the Australian vernacular), Jeong (aside from the fact he has most probably got a get out of jail free card) when she acknowledges to some degree that he is a boofhead.

Let's think about that.

(Ridiculously long post coming up)

  Reveal hidden contents

 

For me the answer is actually quite simple. It’s the horror of Gwangjong killing his brothers.

Note how it was her only condition for supporting his bid to becoming King. Her words were: “Not killing your brothers, can you do that?”

Oddly enough she doesn’t ask him to be a good or a wise king like Gen Pak does. It’s the brother killing that she vociferously objects to. I think she knows that he will have to kill at some point but she is adamant that family cannot be touched. However, it isn’t just to appease her sensibilities that she adopts this as her mantra. She also knows that killing family wounds So deeply. He hates it but he will do it if necessary or pressed.

And when he finally dons his kingly robes, her voice over resolve is to stop him from becoming the bloody monster that he was recorded in history to be.

This theme began really early… it was probably her single most important memory of Gwangjong when it dawned on her that she was back in Goryeo. The notion that Gwangjong was a reputed brother killer dominates her entire perception of not only of Gwangjong but of the throne.

She had an inkling early on that one of these 7 men would end up being Gwangjong. At first her thoughts went to Uk because she was in a kind of romantic relationship with him. Just before entering Damiwon, she speculated that one of the 5 princes within earshot would be Gwangjong and then quickly dismissed that notion out of hand. Such cute and cuddly boys… none of them could possibly be the tyrant that she’s heard about. Could they?  And it’s the attachment to the cute and cuddly boys that really influences much of her entire trajectory and thinking on the subject. 

Still that entire line of thought doesn’t get revisited until the rain ritual episode where she helps So to conceal his scar and gives him the confidence to seize the moment. On that occasion, as he approaches the altar, she receives her first premonition… Wang So, the 4th Prince, is the infamous Gwangjong. Unbeknownst to her, she had helped him take his first significant step towards the throne. This revelation sends her into a tizzy.

Just as when they both get closer because of this event, fate intervenes and causes her to distance herself from him. She’s torn between wanting to rescue him from his tyrannical future and not being sure that she can.

On Eun’s wedding day, she receives her second premonition. She witnesses the brothers giving away presents and having a great o’l time laughing. Suddenly she sees a vision of So, sword in one hand, and a dead Eun. The conclusion is… He will kill his brother who may be silly but is largely harmless.

This sends Su into a panic attack. It confirms her greatest fear. Gwangjong will become a tyrant that kills his brothers. Has she been aiding and abetting a tyrant and a murderer?

Therefore when he approaches her after being slighted by his mother, she rejects him in terror, telling him to pretty much take a hike where he can do no harm to anyone. In her panic-stricken state she tells him to back off because she’s afraid of him.

 

He doesn’t believe her of course. Why? He thinks she has seen the worse of him and yet they still manage to become friends. On that occasion when he asks her to run away with him, she tells him that she’s already got someone else. Whether he would seriously kill her unknown paramour, she’s not sure but she doesn’t say who it is. Nor does she open her mouth even when they are finally a thing and the other guy isn’t even in her radar any more. I imagine that even if Uk isn’t her “lover” any longer, he is still a brother and Su doesn’t want So killing his brothers, right?

Again we see that fate intervenes to keep them apart. The premonition keeps the fear fresh in her mind and away from him. At least for now.

But fate doesn’t want her ending up with Uk either so right before she can say “yes” to Uk, Lady O makes an appearance and puts an end to the cave “assignations.”

So isn’t held back by mere obstacles, of course so he proves over and over again that he really loves her and wants to be with her. It’s not just because he is set up as a contrastive romantic figure to Uk but it’s because it demonstrates very clearly why he (So) becomes king when Uk is relegated to the realm of plotting and scheming behind the scenes.

 

The theme of killing brothers emerges once again when Taejo is on his deathbed. So and Su are standing in the throne room staring at the seat in contention. They talk about what a terrible seat it is and she wants him to promise not to kill Uk when there’s a confrontation later. She feels responsible for his choices blah blah blah, So understands and agrees not to kill his brother because he doesn’t want to either.

Later, when Su confronts Uk about his duplicity, she is horrified that he was using her to kill the 4th Prince. But no harm’s done and she’s willing to give him a chance to get out of the palace and stop the self-destructive trajectory he’s on. Her pleas fall on deaf ears. He wants the throne for her sake. He needs the throne to protect her. She knows what that means… more plotting and scheming resulting in more brother killing and she doesn’t want to be a party to that. She certainly doesn’t want him to act against his brothers, which he will most likely do for her sake anyway.

After which she limps her way to see a very distraught So who regrets and weeps bitterly over having to kill his brother… a brother he didn’t like but a brother nonetheless.

Under Mu’s rule, Su does pretty well while she and So become closer. He doesn’t seem to harbor thoughts about being king so she’s pretty contented for them to be a couple. What she doesn’t know is that Mu is being poisoned slowly by CR who is a willing pawn in a larger conspiracy between Won and Uk. Whether Uk intended for Mu to die is another matter but Yo re-enters the picture changing the entire situation from abdication to outright fratricide.

So confides to Su on the night of the star-gazing that he too fears that it is destiny to become a brother killer, confessing that he was jealous about how his mother favoured Jeong. Again she comforts him and demonstrates empathy. He’s ridiculously happy and is ready to go to the next level with her.

However, fate intervenes once again and he feels compelled to marry into Mu’s family to protect him and the little princess. It’s a politically expedient move that would possibly mean breaking up with Su. After a series of misunderstandings, they kiss and make up. Literally.

Then of course, Yo usurps the crown easily by using Su as leverage. She is burdened by the fact that So was asked to make a hard choice because of her.

 

Yo, advised by Uk, begins his purge, which of course involves Eun. Again we see here Su acting on her fear that there would be brother killing by hiding Eun away in Damiwon. It was never really an issue of trust but her fear of the inevitability of the events depicted in the premonitions coming to fruition.

Although Eun’s killing did not unfold quite in the way that she had expected, it still took place. But she wasn’t repulsed by So but knew that he would be torn apart and hurt by it.

I don’t think we are meant to think that she caused Eun’s death but more that this event became the catalyst to So conspiring to take the crown after being absolutely fed up to the teeth with all the fratricide he’d been witnessing and had become a party to. It was an event that had to happen because it put Wang So on the path to kingship.

Putting an end to the tradition of brothers killing brothers became his key platform for being king. That was something that resonated with her despite her misgivings about him becoming King. Despite wanting to live more freely. But she stood by him because she wanted to be with him far more than she hated the throne.

Phew… okay…

 

So what does CR’s death have anything to do with the whole issue of brothers killing brothers?

At this point, it’s mostly conjecture on my part although I think that there’s enough material to say a few things.

According to So, CR was used in two ways: to infiltrate and to create problems for the ruling monarch and those under him. Her motivation was love but she was a pawn in a much bigger game of thrones. For her it didn’t matter what was at stake as long as she was doing it to please the man she loved. In Su’s eyes she was used and manipulated into undermining the throne by people more powerful than herself because it was a demonstration of her (CR’s) love. Furthermore CR was already a tool in the hands of Uk and Won long before the big grab for the throne started. That’s the tragedy for Su because CR thought she was doing it for love but the people who instigated her to do these things weren’t at all about love.

I also think that Su realized that Uk’s plotting and scheming for the throne in large part had to do with her. That being the case, it is most likely that his behind the scenes machinations won’t end unless she’s out of the picture (ie. out of So’s life and the palace) OR if Uk is dead, most probably convicted for treason.

This is why I cannot agree with the argument that the show should have spent less time on Su and Uk’s romance because Su is just as much a part of Uk’s trajectory in the game of thrones as he is in her love life. His entire bid for the throne comes from having been with her and having to let her go. He is also the mechanism through which fate holds So in check right up to his ascension.

The romance isn't the main point of the drama, the journey to getting the throne is. Love is primarily the vehicle for motivating the throne grab.

Su now realizes that the only way to stop all the deaths is to eliminate the enemy once and for all. The enemy here being family sadly. Brothers will have to kill brothers. However she can’t wait around and watch that happen. It is a repudiation of everything she has stood for all throughout her time in Goryeo. Aside from that, the weight of the guilt that she must be feeling knowing and thinking that as much as she tried to stop the brothers from killing each other, she was just as responsible for making it happen.

So why is she taking Jeong with her? And this part is purely speculative. My guess is it’s to protect him. If she can’t be the referee, then she has to try and save at least one brother. A full brother who has set himself at odds with the brother who is king. So was in so much pain over the first brother whom he thought he had killed and then the mother who never showed love to him. This is her way of preserving one full family member lest he live with even more regrets than he does now. But that’s just me guessing based on what we saw in a number of episodes including Eun’s death. It’s not necessarily a hill that I will die defending.

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you for this long but very logical explanation  how I wish they at least tried to illustrate these in HS and BA dialogue, not the superficial "what should i do, the man that I love kill the one who's like my sister" Thus save a lot of headaches and going gaga wondering what the hell is happening. 

[30orsomething]

28 minutes ago, UmmiN said:

This is what I wanted to bring across everytime ppl bring up the CR stuff. Ppl just overlook the fact that shes angry that CR was being treated like a dog. i think from the beginning HS disagrees with the Goryeo style... she talked abt treating people like animals. She did not argue abt why CR was punished but more like HOW her punishment is being carried out. it's her 21st century mentality where when commiting crimes and such we want to be judged fairly. even accomplices gets punishment together with the mastermind. but here i feel that when she said CR's fault is being born a slave... not literally means that shes not in the wrong more like if you r being born a slave you have no choice, u cant say no to the mastermind and in the end d one suffering the burrito treatment is you (the slave) and not the mastermind coz people born with power are not easily punished (theres seems to b no punishment for Won, Wook and YH) even if theyre being punished, will they get the same punishment as CR as in being whacked while everyone's watching... 

i think this drama akes people see beyond the surface.. not simply taking things as it is but more in depth (read between the lines)..

For example people bashed HS for rejecting WS's proposal... but look into her eyes and notice the emotions within. It's forced rejection. She desperately wanna say yes but there's other circumstances that holds her back. Being the girl she is, she simply cant think of herself. though she wants her own happiness, at the same time she puts WS best interest ahead of her. You can feel from the tone of her voice.. while telling WS she's ok she's also at the same time trying to console herself into believing that shes really ok when shes not... Hear WS's respond to her, it seems like he know they hav too many obstacles to handle at the moment for them to be together and he understands her sadness just as she understands his..

Her wanting to get outta d palace is simply just coz she has had enuf.. like pls la enuf is enuf thats it. for us in real life when thing get soo hard soo tough and u feel miserable being trapped in all d "rubbish nonsensical" stuffs happening around you, will you just stay and be mentally depressed shrivelled and die or would you just pack n go... just blah! WS is not the only 1 who sacrificed, HS also sacrificed alot.. she sacrificed the secrets of her BB cream technique, her limbs, her emotions, her happiness, her bright smile, her laughter, her mental health, her love, her beloved, her "V" (if the lights out means they did it), her time and after all that people see her as useless and not loving WS enough.. to prove her love must she really stay, be like a kamikaze (as in sacrifice her health) be sick slowly shrivelled like a raisin n den die with messed up mind, health, emotions...

Just that alot of people are viewing things from WS's perspective (i know hes a hot royal with a pitiful painful past and enduring love) that i think it is unfair that HS pitiful on-going life is being taken easily (sorry my brain is abit woozy to come up with proper term). HS is young and shes already going thru alot.. she suffer then n now. most of 21st century women are living in d strawberry generation.. abit complain, more work complain, dress dirty complain, food not nice oso complain.. sooo i think she has indeed come a long long way since she first stepped into Goryeo in terms of her behaviour.

Apologies for the long post... i is cannot tahan.. have to rant n let things outta my system before i can digest more MLSHR...

 

Exactly my thoughts! I think audiences are being super biased. They can sympathize with Wang So after all of his killings, but cannot stand HS for not being cunning, not supportive enough for WS. Why? Is it because of IU? Or being plain and kind-hearted means dumb? 

Being thrown back 1000 years is a nightmare I don't dare to dream of. Having those modern mindsets about equality, respect for people despite status is not only an out-of-place luxury but a threat to the very life of the bearer. How many of us here have to witness violent fighting and killing on a daily or monthly basis? If I have to witness one tenth of what Soo has seen, I will go insane, 100% sure. I think with her base as a normal, simple girl who's only good at making people prettier and love them with all of her innocent heart, this girl has survived quite well in Goryeo, and in the cruel royal environment for shouting out loud!

I also think that her original understanding and forgiving manner toward WS was largely based on the fact that she didn't witness his crimes with her own eyes. She only saw WS in a devastating state afterwards, and her caring instinct instantly prompted her to come to the rescue and save WS from that emotional pithole. But in the case of CR, not only CR is her dear friend, but also she witnessed the extreme cruelty of it all with his own eyes, so it's obviously unbearable and unforgivable. 

 

[dramu51ch0c10ve]

Reading all the MLSHR fanfics especially the ones with happy endings as I wait for my friend to send me the photos...there's still time right?I had to google so that I can keep track of deadline in the timing from my side of the world

1 hour later....

FINALLY DID IT! @akinahana89 Thank you again for coming up with this projectHave sent the pics to you.I hope it's ok...my friend joked that maybe after seeing the photos you might reject them...ah lol

[sooji28]

18 hours ago, riuenu said:

The Complete BTS Eng Sub

Spoiler

 

 

 

I think i found the complete BTS with eng sub. Thanks @riuenu for sharing. 

I'm so happy.  

5 minutes ago, 30orsomething said:

 

Exactly my thoughts! I think audiences are being super biased. They can sympathize with Wang So after all of his killings, but cannot stand HS for not being cunning, not supportive enough for WS. Why? Is it because of IU? Or being plain and kind-hearted means dumb? 

Being thrown back 1000 years is a nightmare I don't dare to dream of. Having those modern mindsets about equality, respect for people despite status is not only an out-of-place luxury but a threat to the very life of the bearer. How many of us here have to witness violent fighting and killing on a daily or monthly basis? If I have to witness one tenth of what Soo has seen, I will go insane, 100% sure. I think with her base as a normal, simple girl who's only good at making people prettier and love them with all of her innocent heart, this girl has survived quite well in Goryeo, and in the cruel royal environment for shouting out loud!

I also think that her original understanding and forgiving manner toward WS was largely based on the fact that she didn't witness his crimes with her own eyes. She only saw WS in a devastating state afterwards, and her caring instinct instantly prompted her to come to the rescue and save WS from that emotional pithole. But in the case of CR, not only CR is her dear friend, but also she witnessed the extreme cruelty of it all with his own eyes, so it's obviously unbearable and unforgivable. 

 

 

I think because our wang So is one SMOKIN HOT KING!!!

LOL. 

[qwenli]

Did my scarlet heart support project again today! Hopefully the passerbys dun think I am crazy! Taken at Raffles Place area during lunch time. Looking at the Singapore Landmark, the integrated resort - Marina Bay Sands. 

@akinahana89

@riuenu 

yes lotte gave us a surprise during their family concert on Oct 22, when they reveal Joongi as one of the newspokeperson. there was a short vid of him too. The new advert will be launched soon. 

 It is a great achievement to be appointed as a Lotte spokesperson [spoiler/]

[bitofmadness]

I don't know if it is only me, but I keep on seeing a connection between all the warriors/war generals in this drama. It seems to me that they are good at fighting battles, but not good with politics. Look at what the palace does to Mu and Soon Deok. General Park calls it quits, and now Jung is in exile. 

 

All of them seem to share this idealistic oath to protect the people they love. At first, I thought that their instincts to survive in the battlefield would help them out in the palace. However after dwelling on it for a little more, I’ve come to a realisation. Personally, I have not lived through war but my parents and grandparents survived two wars. After hearing what they have been through, I think I can understand where these characters are coming from and why they are written in such ways. At the end of the day, these characters are at the battlefront. They are the ones who have blood on their hands, which reminds me of this quote:

 

“The soldiers above all others prays for peace, for it is the soldier who must suffer and bear the deepest wounds and scars of war.” - Douglas MacArthur 

 

With this in mind, I can understand why their characters would suffocate. You have to backstab others in order to survive in the palace. However at the battlefields, they are driven by camaraderie in order to survive.  For those they love, they sacrifice.They gave their tomorrow, for our today. On screen, they might look like dumb and one-dimensional characters (I blame the editing for this) who are going to get themselves killed. However, in real life I think all of us would appreciate their courage and noble sacrifices. 

 

There are enough snakes in the palace. I think the writer wants us to see that there is still selflessness in the world of Goryeo. And the selflessness lies in the hearts of these warriors who are fighting for what we value today. Maybe the writer does not want to discredit real life heroes by making all of them play the game…or maybe I’m just thinking too deep y’all. 

 

But it would have been spectacular to see how war shapes these characters’ mindsets. At least, give us an explanation to why Jung is acting this way. He was one of the characters I rooted for in the beginning. I get why he is so devoted to HaeSoo's happiness now..but I am pretty sure there are certain POVs the writer could have explored to justify his other actions. Him questioning the legitimacy of the throne is not wrong - just that it could have been portrayed in another manner rather than through personal grudges. Too bad, we are at episode 19 now. 

[qwenli]

Yeorobun! My loot from China arrived today! Am so thrilled! 

Original Scarlet Heart Chinese Novel (2 books)

Learn Korean with Lee Joongi (Book 1 and 2)

Bazaar magazine featuring Lee Joon Gi   

[sooji28]

7 minutes ago, qwenli said:

Yeorobun! My loot from China arrived today! Am so thrilled! 

 

Spoiler

Original Scarlet Heart Chinese Novel (2 books)

Learn Korean with Lee Joongi (Book 1 and 2)

Bazaar magazine featuring Lee Joon Gi   

 

OMG!!! I want one. Esp the Learn Korean book. It's like Lee Joon Gi is whispering in to your ear, right? **naughty me

[pauexclusive]

Spoiler

 

[pauexclusive]

Watching it from the start again hihi

[hiluna]

22 hours ago, zi4r said:

Hey. Thanks for adding to the analysis. You are right. That sentence needs tons of qualifiers, but I am not sure how to really define those qualifiers. But let me try.

IMO, whether old or current HS, WS sees her as a "conductor of light" for him, but not the light itself. (It's a Sherlock fandom reference. Read in spoiler tag for full background.)

  Reveal hidden contents

Sherlock Holmes said to Dr. John Watson: "You've never been the most luminous of people, but as a conductor of light, you are unbeatable!"

As in, John is not the brightest bulb when it comes to having ideas of his own, but he brings out the greatness in Sherlock. It's a very self-possessed statement, because he is basically saying that without Sherlock's already existing brain/ideas, John's input is quite useless.

Basically, there are things he actively seeks advice/reassurance from her, and whenever he does that, it is either to reaffirm his own already-held beliefs, or it is because he thinks he is lacking in that particular area. But if he feels that she might not agree with him about something he has already decided on his own, he generally avoids confrontation by not even consulting with her at all.

So, in things that he knows he falls short (usually anything to do with emotional maturity or moral compass), he actively seeks out her direction. And whenever he feels himself faltering and feels bad about himself, he seeks out her reassurance (e.g. When he thought he killed Yo, he seeks her understanding & acceptance). In things he is indecisive about, he would probably have sought out her input (even though I don't have an example for it).

But he seems to not trust her with the decision-making of anything strategic. Not only does he not seek out her advice, he (more often than not) kept her totally in the dark about the situation or his decisions. Especially when he feels he has already made up his mind about something, he generally avoids getting an input from her at all (e.g. about kid marriage).

WS's respect of HS's opinions is a highly debatable part of this drama (Many people have criticized him for not respecting her opinion in the "beach on the horse" scene, remember?), and one that we would never really know the answer to. Because the focus of the drama and the focus of their relationship has always been about WS protecting HS. HS's input to the relationship kinda ended in Ep8 when she covered up his scar and uncovered his greatness. Since then, the relationship has been quite one-sided; except for a few times he needs reassurance here and there, it's always HS depending on WS at every turn. So, I guess we will never know the answer to the question of how much her input mattered to him..... because that answer never truly mattered to the story as a whole. Sad, really.

You are on point as usual. He only accepts what he needs from her and I can see that the communication is one way only. I remember on the beach that he says he doesn't need to explain or apologize for his actions to her and I guess that is why he doesn't tell her about CR and all the stuff he has to do as a King. Ji Mong was right, she isn't his match and can't help GJ rule like YH can. So sad that they were not meant to be together in Goryeo. We need a whole episode for future SoSoo to heal us.