[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner

[ohgee]

3 minutes ago, violet90 said:

WHY THE HELL WE GET TO SEE YH IN BATH SAYING THE USELESS STUFF NOW THAT WE GETTING AN ENDING??? I DON'T GET IT SERIOUSLY NOBODY WANT THAT WRITER NIM!!!!!!

unless you give me So and Soo bathing together that a total different story.. LOL

sorry to cut your post but that is so true. why yh in a bath.

i wish we could see another bath scene with ws and hs too but this time they should zoom in on ljg body( had to get that out of my system since its been bothering me since episode 2, i mean the one time he does strip foe the camera they dont record it right)

[riuenu]

Joongi update Weibo

English Translation: How things going recently? See (you guy) later. Must (stay) healthy.

Credit to SUISUIMJG twitter

 

[candilie]

Chingus, I FOUND the mysterious candle that was circulated everywhere and everyone thought it to come from a 'bed scene'!

 

Spoiler

It came from the 1st video frame of the above scene, HAHAHAHA!

We are so busted 

Credits: weibo.com

Edited October 28, 2016 by candilie

[kiinn]

42 minutes ago, Tang Soon said:

Wook will be betrayed by YH, YH sadly is going to be the ultimate winner of all this fiasco since Ep 1.. Cant imagine YH bearing 5 children with WS.. If it is such, ahhhh what is HS/WS weight of true love...

And please this is WS/HS Goryeo Time, reincarnation of what for WS is aint the same WS but a washed out completion of the series.. Maybe BA is the real GJ?

 

May future Ji Mong transport artificial insemination technology to the palace, and YH could make as much as 100 babies for herself, while saving our souls and WS from pain. 

[violet90]

6 minutes ago, Adnana said:

And finally, I dislike that Soo sent for Jung first, even before talking with So. Surely her man deserves better than that?

 

 

sorry to cut your post...

this one i want to give my thought... did you really think that Su telling So that she want to tell Jung that she want to escape the palace will make it better??

So will go even mad and maybe do something to make sure Jung did't step back into palace.. when Queen Yoo is dying his order is if Jung step into palace he will be executed and the only thing that keeping him do that is Su.. and his promise to Su that he won't take any of his sibling life...

but here we talk about Jung possibly taking away one thing that he keep fighting to keep beside him.. the only person that can keep him as So not KG.. i really afraid if he know about 2 thing.. Jung have a way to take Su away and Su want to leave him...

this conclude my reasoning why she CAN'T never tell So about Jung... 

[antiherofans]

14 minutes ago, violet90 said:

pretty sure YH will stab WW behind his back cause now that WS (i hate to said this even want to throw up) willing to give her a heir to the throne as a price she must turn from her family.. the last scene in episode 18 meaning that WS will have a plan to destroy WW and will need YH support to do that.. 

the question remain is whether WW will destroy YH too cause she did not honor her promise to make sure he get what he want when she became a queen.. when WW said in eps 11 that he and YH is no longer brother and sister but a debtor to him.. so for me WW possibly will burn her too if he will go down cause they are not sibling but a player... 

i looked forward in episode 19...

1. showdown between So and Jung... its an epic one seeing Jung asking for So lover as his wife and want to know how So going to deal with him cause in BBJX it look like a battlefield the staring contest between 4th and 14th and i love this scene..

2. WW confessing his relationship and realization that his sister stab him... this one because he will get what he deserve but he will get my respect if he also drag YH along when he going down.. lastly make a justice with Su cause he keep saying its all because of her now prove that!

3. the break up scene.. yes it will be a wreck but still its a scene that leave the mark on my heart.. both of them devastated and hurt by each other and its an end of their relationship but not their love...

thing i hate to see...

WHY THE HELL WE GET TO SEE YH IN BATH SAYING THE USELESS STUFF NOW THAT WE GETTING AN ENDING??? I DON'T GET IT SERIOUSLY NOBODY WANT THAT WRITER NIM!!!!!!

unless you give me So and Soo bathing together that a total different story.. LOL

 

LOL maybe that scene is important to writer Nim ?

[violet90]

Just now, antiherofans said:

 

LOL maybe that scene is important to writer Nim ?

 

maybe she want to make a parallel scene with Queen Yo spending her time bathing because the king have absolutely no interest in her... same in here YH have to bath all the time cause So focus is only Su and not her... LOL

we can throw WW into the scene too just like Yo and Queen Yoo.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[kingpin]

 

  

 

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c as labeled

 

[antiherofans]

7 minutes ago, violet90 said:

 

maybe she want to make a parallel scene with Queen Yo spending her time bathing because the king have absolutely no interest in her... same in here YH have to bath all the time cause So focus is only Su and not her... LOL

we can throw WW into the scene too just like Yo and Queen Yoo.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

You mean wook will feed grapes and pour some wine for her? LOL 

Suddenly I have gag reflect 

[Adnana]

18 minutes ago, violet90 said:

sorry to cut your post...

this one i want to give my thought... did you really think that Su telling So that she want to tell Jung that she want to escape the palace will make it better??

So will go even mad and maybe do something to make sure Jung did't step back into palace.. when Queen Yoo is dying his order is if Jung step into palace he will be executed and the only thing that keeping him do that is Su.. and his promise to Su that he won't take any of his sibling life...

but here we talk about Jung possibly taking away one thing that he keep fighting to keep beside him.. the only person that can keep him as So not KG.. i really afraid if he know about 2 thing.. Jung have a way to take Su away and Su want to leave him...

this conclude my reasoning why she CAN'T never tell So about Jung... 

@violet90 Oh, I didn't mean that Soo should tell So about Jung, not at all. It's not explicit in the sentence you quoted, because I'd already written about this in previous posts, but what I was saying is, I wanted Soo to tell So first that she was leaving him, before she told anyone else. It's their relationship, their personal issue, so they should discuss it first before involving outsiders, right?

This is what I originally wrote, when I first brought up this issue:

Quote

In C-BBJX, Ruo Xi first asked the Emperor (4th Prince) to let her leave the Palace, and it was only AFTER he told her that he'd never allow her to leave him, that she asked for 14th Prince's help. So I'm bitterly disappointed for this reason as well, that Soo didn't even possess the common decency to talk to So first before sending for Jung, to explain that she wants to leave and to ask him to allow it. He might have understood and respected her wish! Fine, he likely wouldn't have, but why isn't she giving him even ONE chance? Doesn't he deserve at least that much after all they've been through together, after everything he's done for her? Why does Soo, whenever the going gets tough, always and forever default to expecting the worst from So? 

And anyway, if Soo wants to leave the Palace, doesn't she have a mouth to argue her case and 2 feet to carry her away? Why must she immediately involve other people--moreover 14th Prince who

(a) is So's full blood brother and already has a bad relationship with him--which would only get further strained because of Soo's irresponsible decision; and

(b) is in freaking house arrest and denied entry to the capital under pain of death!

 

You see? I wanted Soo to go to So and tell him, "I want out of the Palace. Let me go." I wanted her to explain her reasons and give him the benefit of the doubt, that when So saw that Soo was in earnest, that she couldn't live there anymore, that she wanted to be free etc.--that he would willingly let her go himself.

So basically, the fact that Soo is already sending for Jung before talking to So even once, banking on needing Jung's help to get away from So, implies that she does not trust So to follow her wishes. And she may be right--I don't expect So to let Soo go easily--but the right thing to do would still have been for Soo to hash this issue out with So and try at least once to make her wishes clear before calling in outside help.

[pass3rby]

20 minutes ago, kdramawriter said:

Just thought of this in reflection of HS leaving the palace: 

Hae Su has always believed to protect what you want, you must pay the price. She said this when she cut her wrists to avoid marrying King Taejo. She specifically says it to Lady Oh, who understands more than any of the men in the palace, how truly alone the women are. We are effectively seeing the same scenario play out there with her leaving the palace. Hae Su is saving herself. Hae Su says to WS after she enters the palace and he grabs her wrists where she had sliced it with a vase:

WS: "If the cut were a little deeper, you would have died."

HS: "I didn't die."

WS: "Do you know what it's like to live with a scar on your body? Are you happy to be a court lady? You may never step outside of this palace again. Are you excited? Why did you have to go so far? Why didn't you just marry the King then?"

HS: "I don't know! I just don't! If you can't do anything, just close your eyes and enter the King's room. That's what I told myself. I just couldn't do it. No one can save me except myself. That's what I thought and that's why I did it."

Here, she is clearly saying to Wang So that she will not become a different person just so she can live. She would rather die than become someone she cannot see herself being (that is the King's woman). Here again, she says: "No one can save me except myself."

This is how I read that blood letter scene: 

Hae Su reads CR's letter and recognizes that she is no longer the same person as before. There is absolutely nothing left for her in the palace. She has compromised too much of herself by becoming the King's woman (which is precisely why she cut her wrists back in ep 7). She is caged, physically by the decrees of the palace, and mentally by her love for Wang So. 

While Jung is going to be the person to take her out of the palace, she is the one who has initiated all the motions. Again, Hae Su is saving herself. She is cutting her wrists again, except this time, it's cutting of ties with Wang So. I see this as the same action. She no longer recognizes herself. She must save herself. Will she suffer without Wang So? Absolutely. But this is what I admire about Hae Su. She recognizes when she's lost herself and she recognizes that she is the ONLY one who can save herself. I think her leaving has the added benefit that she will no longer be a pawn to be played by Wang So's enemies. But She's also choosing herself. And I love that. 

I agree with you. She chose herself. She wants to save herself.

Some have said about how a 21st century woman couldn't pull herself out of the situation and everything else. To me, this is the 21st century woman's decision. To leave everything behind to save herself from further destruction. To live and let go. Not to mention her health and all the absurd life inside the palace. Her "mission" is accomplished. WangSo has become King, who didn't kill his brothers.

What i learn from HS is that it is frightening to know what tomorrow brings. I'd prefer not to know what will happen tomorrow. That knowledge about Goryeo's future has brought HaeSoo to a life which she could not fully enjoy. Brought her fear, worries, and restrained her from doing what her heart told her. In the end, made her give up her love. She then put WangSo's "destiny' first then her love for him. She knew that she couldn't have him for herself right from the start. But she was finally willing to try, lived for the moment, and gave him all the love she had until the day she couldn't.

WangSo had never felt love from his family, and he will live the rest of his life with a woman he doesn't love. It's only HaeSoo's love that he ever felt in his entire life. (My eyes are teary now). He doesn't believe in fate nor destiny--that HaeSoo is not destined for him--nevertheless he could not make her his. They can't be together yet they can't live without each other. They can't live but they can't die either. It's exhausting.

WARNING: MLSHR is just like drugs!!!! Don't drive if you just had a dose of MLSHR.

I was driving home from taking my son to his school. Suddenly my eyes are teary, my mind played flashbacks of Carnival scene, the proposal and another rejection. I couldn't concentrate on my driving. I repeatedly told myself to put MLSHR aside. "Stop it, stop it, you could get crash!!!" The i pulled aside. Took a very deep breath, and had some water then i went back home.

My life is screwed, thank's to MLSHR.

 

[violet90]

@Adnana

sorry about misunderstand your post but So already make it clear that he won't allow or give permission if she want to get out or leave him.. even Jung decree could not make So let Su goes and only with WW confession he letting her go..

i don't think So would understand on why Soo need to get out from palace.. she can't make him understand and all that will arise from their confrontation is So will use his royal status to hold Su.. that's just going to make it worse.. 

but its just my understanding on why she don't discuss first with So cause nothing will make a difference... even when she get mad about CR you can see So lashing out to BA and knowing she want to leave him??? that  a scary thing to witness for me... 

 

[riuenu]

13 minutes ago, violet90 said:

 

maybe she want to make a parallel scene with Queen Yo spending her time bathing because the king have absolutely no interest in her... same in here YH have to bath all the time cause So focus is only Su and not her... LOL

we can throw WW into the scene too just like Yo and Queen Yoo.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I also think she making parallel scene with Queen Yo bathing scene...yes, So had no interest in HER AT ALL

BUT...I literally BURST OUT LAUGHING on throwing WW into that scene, omg...wahahahahahaahahahaahahahahaha

[whyo]

Sorry I join what both of you talking about @violet90 @Adnana. Just want to give my 2 cents.

This is why both of them become miserable. Soo know So so well and vice versa.

Because he know she will get angry, he didn't tell her about CR first. Because she know So won't agree, she didn't ask his permission to leave palace.

They are lack communication because they think what they want can't be accepted by their spouse. They never try to solve their problem TOGETHER argh!

[30orsomething]

Talking about ending. Unlike Rouxi in C-version, Go Ha Jin was in a desperate situation before she drowned and got transported to Goryeo: her best friend and boyfriend betrayed her, took away all her hard earned money (I remember there's a scene where she was being chased by a group of ahjummas. Who could they be? Creditors?) . That means she has nothing left in the modern world but problems. Being thrown to Goryeo is not the nicest option but acceptable for her to build her life anew. However, life in Goryeo sucks, especially for a girl with no powerful family backing. She seldom has the power to decide her fate (don't tell me about the case when Wang So offered her the ticket out of the palace through a marriage, yeah he's generous, she's silly for not embracing the chance but still it's the chance SOMEONE ELSE give her, not something she can generate herself). And inevitably, she dies in sorrow, after suffering a lot, both mentally and physically (I wouldn't wish for such a new life if I knew it would be so miserable.). But what's the good of transporting her back to modern time, with all the problems shoving in her face the moment she wakes up? Is the life in Goryeo supposed to be a counterweight to make her realize that modern life, cruel as it is, is still nothing compared with the life 1000 years ago? And then she will have the strength to deal with those two horrible traitors? I am now super curious about how the writer will deal with the "reborn and come back" scenario. 

About WS and HS separation, I think it's the only way for their love story remains epic and keep them longing for each other for an eternity. You know, unfinished love is always the best! Even if she stays in the palace, the personal trait that once draws them to each other will turn ugly and make them grow tired of each other, just like @violet90 has pointed out. Not to mention HS will constantly be attacked and used as a bait against WS (she doesn't know how to protect herself, does she?). Then WS will have to deal with all the powerful clans while protecting HS. Exhausted, isn't it? 

Ahem, on a lighter note, just imagine HS became WS's queen with no opposition, YH got sent to the Khitan or somewhere far far away (who cares?), WW got executed, WW-HS relationship never came to light or forgotten and forgiven by WS, then the difference in their upbringing and mindset will gradually undermine their relationship in a typical way that marriage does to our once young, passionate, innocent love. Is it new that the things draw you to him/her become annoying once you two get married? She's so clumsy it's cute (before marriage) --> God, that b***ch is lazy, she cannot handle a household properly (after marriage). Or he's a free and wild soul, how romantic! (before marriage) --> He keeps running like a wild horse and never gives a darn 'bout his children and wife (after marriage). 

I have depicted this in my sick brain:

1st time: 

WS: I've just massacred all the monks and set the temple on fire. 

HS: What choice do you have? I don't think I can forgive you, but I understand. 

2st time:

WS: I've just killed my bro. 

HS: (pat shoulder, pull WS in a solace embrace)

3rd time: 

WS: I've executed your ex. I don't deserve forgiveness but I think you'll understand. 

HS: It's OK. I am over him already. He's done too many wrongs to us anyway. 

.

.

.

nth time:

WS: I've grilled the whole court for...

HS: WTH? Did I get married to a meat grinder or what? Do I look like a mental therapist or guilt cleanser to you? I am sick of this bloody routine of yours, I am outta here!!!

 

There, break up early, keep good memories of each other, voila, you'll have something good to remember and regret about for the rest of your life 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2016 by 30orsomething

[valentvcd]

Something I always wondering why WS and YH had a child after 6 years of marriage. Maybe thats why the writer can write fiction from that and about WS only married YH, It could be love or heartbroken and also he wanted to change rules that time. He did not want any powerful family rule palace, he released slaves and everyone who smart can served. I think besides mean person, GJ was a good king also. 

[zi4r]

(This is mostly a "rehashing" post. Those who have patiently read my earlier over-long posts can just skip it. Thank you for your patience.)

 

2 hours ago, kdramawriter said:

Yeah, it's what's getting me through the show. I don't think I'm giving the writer too much credit, because she backs up my theory pretty often.

The show is about an unimportant girl travels back in time to change the recorded history Korea. She is unnamed in records, anonymous in history, yet is responsible for a change in the succession of Kings in the tenth century. That she falls in love Wang So because of her loving nature is secondary to her purpose there. She changes the shape of history, but will be forgotten. 

This is the overthinkingkdrama entry that helped me with this point of view: 

I’m not sure I’ve ever watched anything so preoccupied with visible, physical disfigurement as SH:R. Whether it be Goryeo’s almost perverse obsession with unmarked skin and aversion to scars. So’s face. Soo’s permanent limp from the torture she survived, or later on the work roughened hands from the Gyobang. Even Woo Hee’s mysterious scars, or Queen Yoo’s miraculously gray hair after her ordeal. This is a world where people’s stories are written on they’re bodies in unmistakable ways.

Predominantly, it is a world where male stories are written, often violently, on female bodies.

We have seen the pattern repeat itself again and again. Soo’s wrist was a early example. Sold into marriage for her family’s greed, purchased to protect the throne, and ultimately freed only by her active destruction of her own flesh, when all the men in her life (not for the last time) failed to protect her.

I’m not quite ready to say where I think this pattern is headed, but I think it’s the moment to point it out and ask you for your thoughts.

Last time I called the world of this drama a “monstrous patriarchy”, and it is. A patriarchy that leaves behind visible and invisible scars, a patriarchy with a body count. And it’s taken Soo quite a while to realize what kind of world she’s living in. But with the death of Court Lady Oh I think it really hit home that she isn’t free to live as she likes here. She isn’t safe or secure. The men she loves cannot provide that security for her, and if she becomes entangled in the dangerous web of the palace, she will surely end up dead. She’s out of place, out of time, and she simply wants to avoid everything and everyone…if only she could.

Thanks for sharing the overthinkingkdrama post here. As hard as I try to stay away from my tumblr (I'm still going through a withdrawal from my wild Sherlockian days there, and I don't really have enough time to properly engage in fandom so it's better to stay away from it), this is one of the few blogs I doggedly follow to quench my thirst at least on SHR analyses.

But (at least for me) the criticism of the MLSHR universe in that particular overthinkingkdrama entry is mostly criticism of the era as a whole... and not truly a criticism of the writing. HS's (and Lady Oh's) predicaments and helplessness can be almost wholely blamed on the patriarchal times, and the show has a brilliant way of highlighting that. In that sense, the writer has definitely highlighted the plight of female figures in history, and there is abundant evidence of that.

 

 

But my criticism of the writer was based on a whole lot beyond that --- it's about how largely ignored the female characters actually are, and how little a role or (in many cases) even a true sense of a "soul" female characters are actually given in this drama. 

HS is the most developed and beloved part of the drama. She was given a true character development, and we get to see the depth of the character. But even she, in the end, has no real sense of existence in this (Goryeo) world than being WS's woman. But let's just call this the indictment of the times, and not the writing. So moving on...

YH is the most developed evil female character. We never truly got to see her heart, but we got to see her brains aplenty. Yet the show fails to highlight her logic, and instead, chooses to dwell on her "evil" side and it is done largely based on visuals. They packed in as much visual of "the other women" as possible in her demeanor and actions to make sure we feel nothing but resentment towards her. The portrayal fully engages only our emotions and our visual sense. It could have gone a more cerebral path of showing her as a woman who decides to forgo her goodness & her heart, in exchange for her livelihood & her ambition. Yet the focus was not at all on that. But let me be generous here... Let's also call this the indictment of the times; back in that era, women that wield their might & their intelligence & their womanly wiles in an obvious fashion were seen as inherently "evil". So let's try to ignore that, and move on...

Queen Yoo is a very central character. Yet she doesn't have any legs to stand on, in terms of character development. She hates WS. Why? We can only guess. She is almost illogically entrenched in her evilness. Why? We can only guess.

She's painted less as a cunning woman controlled by logic, more as a spiteful woman controlled by madness. There was no need to do that; WS could have still made a sympathetic character without his mother being this bad-beyond-logic. And Taejo should share the blame for WS's predicament and Yoo's spiral into madness. But even he was given a dignified death of almost reverent send-off by WS. Whereas Yoo died still in a fit of rage and madness. Even WY, as undeveloped a character as he was, is made into a sympathetic character, one destroyed and led towards a wrong path by Yoo.

I've tried to explain Yoo's madness and hatred for WS in so many ways: post-partum depression, guilt projection, she just hates the scar, she is ashamed of having a son who won't be eligible for the throne, etc etc. But try as I might, they are only guesses. Why? Because the show chose to take the easy way out. They chose to portray Yoo exactly as how men usually see women as: "Basically, women are illogical & emotional beings, just deal with it and move on."

That's not the indictment of the times; that's either lazy writing, or as you said in your previous post (which I am trying my very best to take comfort in), the writer is trying to make a statement of how women are written in our history... never the focus, never an explanation, just barely a footnote.

This line of criticism extends to all the female characters in the drama (maybe except Lady Oh and Lady Hae)... but I'm not going to rehash and elaborate here anymore.

 

 

tl;dr; What I'm trying to say is... It is true that there is ample evidence, the writer should be given credit for highlighting the plight of female characters in that era.

But when you said, "The show is making a larger comment on the role of women in history, (influential but forgotten and unrecorded) which I find fascinating," I took it beyond that. I took it to say that the show largely ignores the strengths and dilemmas and logic of female characters, as a way of showing how our history records treat them. There is no evidence to support that... but I am choosing to believe it anyway, because it comforts me.

I hope this clarifies my post. My writing brain is stuttering today, and I can't seem to get my points across clearly.

Edited October 28, 2016 by zi4r
Formatting for easier read

[violet90]

3 minutes ago, whyo said:

Sorry I join what both of you talking about @violet90 @Adnana. Just want to give my 2 cents.

This is why both of them become miserable. Soo know So so well and vice versa.

Because he know she will get angry, he didn't tell her about CR first. Because she know So won't agree, she didn't ask his permission to leave palace.

They are lack communication because they think what they want can't be accepted by their spouse. They never try to solve their problem TOGETHER argh!

 

let me add... the scene where they eating in silence after YH and WW confrontation with each make me want to slam my head... i mean you have a chance to talk about it and figuring it out together but they just want to protect each other end up hurting each other...

and yes they love each other but seriously they are lack in term communication and trust issues... its not WW or CR that destroy their relationship..

to be honest they BOTH destroy it together...

[ohgee]

8 minutes ago, whyo said:

Sorry I join what both of you talking about @violet90 @Adnana. Just want to give my 2 cents.

This is why both of them become miserable. Soo know So so well and vice versa.

Because he know she will get angry, he didn't tell her about CR first. Because she know So won't agree, she didn't ask his permission to leave palace.

They are lack communication because they think what they want can't be accepted by their spouse. They never try to solve their problem TOGETHER argh!

yes so true! they should play lee joon gi song 'together' in the background so they caan both get the hint. 

[qwenli]

4 hours ago, bluesunny3 said:

 

Woohoo! Lee Joon Gi just admitted he's my boyfriend! 

you are such a positive person. I like that