[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner

[devotee]

I'd watch baseball in a heartbeat if LJG is in it! So good to be back and seeing how fast this thread is going.  We will definitely reach 2000 pages soon.  You guys are just AWESOME

 

[ChewyChocolate]

1 minute ago, Evelyn C said:

It's 2 am here, and I am laughing like a crazy fool!  While he's under the bed, he'll keep saying - I promise you Soo, no, wait - I can't actually do that - I will do - no, wait - I also can't do that - Before he knows what's happened, 20 years have passed him by while he's there thinking of things he can't do...

He'll pen poems about time and the passing of time. Once in a while, he'll sneak out ninja-style, and stretch his legs and practise ninja-kicks quietly...20 years under the bed is killing on the knees...

[devotee]

I'm really enjoying ML's fans' creativity

***************************

WY:  I got you now

HS:  His angle is off. Should we stop and tell him that?

WS:  Nah, don't bother.

 

[Evelyn C]

3 minutes ago, kaoriharang said:

Oh I love HS's new look, i love her dress. And WOW WS is so powerful as King. 

I cant wait for ep 17 tonight! we will get our ep tonight right? Does anyone know if there will be anymore OST releases?

I wonder whether WS will immediately turn revengeful right away. I can imagine he has a lot of scores he wishes to settle. As for Jung, to be honest I am plain irritated at him. So i basically ignore his existence whenever i watch the show. 

I know! She looks radiant (pregnancy glow?) and he's just owning it as King... I'm just going to pray for torrential downpour - I know they can't play tennis in the rain - A girl can dream that same goes for baseball?  if it gets postponed again, there might be a riot.

Jung has become an annoying gnat - he was cute before, but now I just want him to go away and fight some more battles on the frontier where he can't obstruct our OTP anymore.

[junejungki]

11 minutes ago, rei_smasher11 said:

http://naver.me/5umV4EJp

Let's watch to increase the views! 

i dont know how to embed a video. Sorry! 

Can our Korean friends here can translate what are they saying.

[redfrommars]

2 minutes ago, devotee said:

I'd watch baseball in a heartbeat of LJG is in it! So good to be back and seeing how fast this thread it going.  We will definitely reach 2000 pages soon.  You guys are just AWESOME

 

I SWEAR I HAD A MINI HEART ATTACK WHEN I SAW THE WORD BASEBALL AND THAT EDITED POSTER! I think I'm having a phobia right now...

NO BASEBALL TONIGHT! I'M TRUSTING YOU SBS SPORTS!! YOU SHOULD DO YOUR JOB! 

Glad that the thread is moving faster again~ I'm staying positive for a somewhat happy ending and I'm patiently waiting for Ep 17 (especially for the mask scene) 

#THANKGODIT'SMOONDAY<3

[qwenli]

 

30 minutes ago, flower4junsu said:

I cannot get over this view

 

 

 

Please join us at the shipping thread

lee joon gi/iu shipping thread link 

but ship at your own risk ok? sometimes actors fall in love during filming and then they slowly get out of character. But judging by what Lee Joon Gi and IU have been posting, they are not out of characters yet because the drama is on going. I am so dead. 

[pwnkl]

Hae Soo looks so dayum GORGEOUS!! OMG. before I said she's tied up with Ha Ji Won who looks the most prettiest in my eyes with hanboks.. now IU takes the top spot  BUTTT! GWANGJONG.. I'm so loving King WANG SO The sharpness is a killer. I'm digging his fierce look kyaaaaaa~ 

[whyo]

3 hours ago, qwenli said:

@Silvermaine

I dont think is WS in HS's room. Its HS in Gwangjong's room . 

@whyo wow you really saved all the "important" bts  I consider them so important, I am putting the link in my signature. haha

 

Well.., I think we are SoSooxJoonU hardcore shipper  LOL. Of course its important...
I'll help our fellow eclipses that wanna join our ship 

[redlion]

11 minutes ago, kaoriharang said:

Oh I love HS's new look, i love her dress. And WOW WS is so powerful as King. 

I cant wait for ep 17 tonight! we will get our ep tonight right? Does anyone know if there will be anymore OST releases?

I wonder whether WS will immediately turn revengeful right away. I can imagine he has a lot of scores he wishes to settle. As for Jung, to be honest I am plain irritated at him. So i basically ignore his existence whenever i watch the show. 

Jung..... he must have a "mother complex" and in the end he also have a "first love complex" toward HS 

[Evelyn C]

8 minutes ago, ChewyChocolate said:

He'll pen poems about time and the passing of time. Once in a while, he'll sneak out ninja-style, and stretch his legs and practise ninja-kicks quietly...20 years under the bed is killing on the knees...

At this point, he's starting to look real pitiful even to Jung - 'Hyungnim, are you still here? So and Soo have married and left you behind - Even Yeonhwa saw the light and left, yet you are still here?" All words, and no action (except when poisoning your brother, but nbd), that's our molasses boy, Wook!

[lyserose]

12 minutes ago, oyashirazu said:

lyserose I do know one saeguk drama where a king ascends the throne without a queen  It’s called  태왕사신기 (The Story of the First King's Four Gods / Legend / ... / I think the title has many translations…). But it’s plot is neither in Goryeo nor Joseon era, but in Goguryeo if I remember correctly.

Thanks for your info. I watched that drama because it starred Bae Yong Joon (he is my first K-drama's crush at the height of Winter Sonata's fame) but I think it's more of fantasy-fusion saeguk loosely based on Dangun and Gwanggaeto. The drama presenting more mythical elements than actual historical figures, if I am not mistaken. But well, they have notified us in every episode that they "have taken creative license to history", so long as they don't deviate far as what the other Moon drama did for its ending, I think that should be fine.

I apologized for cutting your earlier post as I was nervous about reposting images but same with you, I am hoping they will make that coronation of Gwangjong really EPIC. I am a bit worried to be honest. Aside from the rain ritual, demons chasing ceremony and rain cum Goryeo's batman scene, we don't get that much epic scenes and I mean, the scenes which really show the build up and explosive momentum. We have been waiting 16 episodes for Wang So to ascend the throne, so please drama, please, be merciful to us and give us that moment to talk about just like that moment when Haesoo had the vision of Wang So as the ominous Gwangjong. 

[zi4r]

I am responding directly to two of the responses I received for my anti post last night. To all others who has responded to my post (@deabakdrama, @littleloony, @soorani, @qwenli and there are at least 2 others.... I can't find anymore!!!! Soompi notification sucks), thank you for your input. I've read them all, pondered on them all and feel that the lengthy post below is sufficient to address most of the issues you all raised.

I am surprised that anyone read that post at all, really. Anti posts are emotionally draining for me to write, and I am so glad that everyone has been very kind to me despite the unpleasantness I am sure I heaped upon you with that post. Thanks, Eclipses! \^0^/ You lot are awesome!

 

 

15 hours ago, jayakris said:

I guess I asked about the first part already (though in response to @lyserose), as I felt that it may be a bit of a stretch to take this line as asking him to give up the throne for her.  I didn't take it that way (at all!).  And neither did WS, in how he responded.

On the 2nd point, wasn't she actually helping WS out of a really tight spot, of having to arrest Jeong and have him face the law for breaking curfew?  It worked out best for WS too, and she knew it would.  At least, that's how I took it.  What was wrong in that? I thought it was brilliant.  And I think WS probably did too, as he didn't complain later when she explained it away (though it added to his feeling that she might not be trusting him like he does her, and he openly said that to her later).  Again, sorry if I missed any detail that should make me dislike HS on this.

I will tackle the "first part" in the highlighted portion below because many people seem to misinterpret that particular complaint of mine, and it seems to be the most widely defended. So this part is about Jung..... And sorry, I'm not buying it. How is that helping WS out of a tight spot? I don't think there was consideration on her part about WS, except that she doesn't want the brothers to fight (Even that, it's more an excuse she tells herself). As it is, there are a lot of issues I have with this scene:

(And, by the way, it was not absolutely necessary for writer-nim to put this in for the plot to move forward, so I feel that the intention is to show us how their relationship is falling apart and what kind of woman HS has become.)

• This whole thing happened right before the guards. There is a valid suspicion that an intruder from outside the palace entered her room. No one, except her, knows it's Jung at this point. If WS is to do his duty to ensure the security of the palace, he has to search the rooms. Now, there's a woman questioning his authority, in front of his subordinates. And worse, he allows her to do it! Is there any way to see it as helping WS? Getting him out of the tight spot? She's putting him in the tight spot. Choose: your duty (and your authority in your men's eyes) or your woman's life.
• People feel that her actions are understandable because their relationship is not in the right place at that moment. She must be feeling disappointed, saddened and insecure after the kid-marriage fiasco. But he is not some commoner and she is not some village girl. They are serving in the palace; they have responsibilities. On one hand, I will be very generous and say, there are two reasons she should bar him from the room: to avoid another spat between the brothers, and because she wants to give him a taste of his own medicine because she's pissed. But on the other hand, there are tons of things at stake: the security of the palace, the safety of the King, the law and order (because that's what curfew is) in the palace, WS's authority over his guards...... Yet she still chooses to bar him anyway, because here is a woman scorned and she needs him to know it. I understand her emotions, but I cannot respect her decision.
• Lastly, look at the way she did it. As I have said before, this is her using his love for her against him. Two ways to look at it: One, she knows how much her wounding/scarring herself would hurt him (She must remember how he reacted after she scarred herself previously? And that's when they were barely friends!)... but she did it anyway. Or two, she is feeling insecure and not sure where she stands with him anymore... so here she is, testing him. If it is the first one, that's just plain malicious. If it is the second, it only highlights my complaint about how much their relationship hasn't matured at all in 2 years..... Him marrying another woman is one thing, but does she really think that he would stand by and watch a woman he has saved countless times harm/kill herself right in front of him?

And let me get this straight: I would understand and respect her for going this far to bar him from entering the room, if the situation was truly dire. But it wasn't. For her, hiding Jung is not that important a thing; let's say, this is not Eun hiding in her room to save himself from getting killed. For the guards, it is essential that they enter the room; it's plain and simple..... There's someone in the room -- who either snuck out and got back in, or he/she is not a resident of the palace at all. The guards need to know who he/she is.

So she is going great lengths to bar WS's entrance to her room... and whatever reason she tells WS or herself, it is not good enough a reason for her to go this far... harming herself in front of him. This is just her proving him or herself how much she means to him. And given the amount of conspiracies surrounding the palace and how much she has been put in danger over and over again, I cannot understand or respect her for her frankly illogical and irresponsible actions.

 

 

@40somethingahjumma (Tried to quote your post, but for some reason, Soompi makes my mouse go crazy whenever I quote long posts, and it is also not allowing me to copy/paste/insert link for some reason. So I gave up. Everyone, this is the gorgeous piece by 40somethingahjumma that I am responding to.)

Thank you so much for the post; I can feel my writing brain reviving again and I owe that a lot to your post. When I posted that explosion of a post, yours is the kind of response I am hoping for. Because you see, this is a soul-searching exercise for me. I could sense an impending massive writer's block for MLSHR for me because of how frustrated I have become with HS's character (the one I've rooted for the most in this drama, more than even WS's)... and to deal with that, I needed to write it all out, and more importantly, I needed good counter-arguments to get me outta the headloop that I'm in.

But before I tackle your specific points, I need to make a general note about my post. Given the verbal-diarrhea quality to my post, I think most people have entirely missed the point I am trying to make. It's not that I am blaming HS for everything, and WS for nothing. My criticism of her character is not for her specific actions alone..... it's the trajectory of it all. (As my husband would say... When you plot her life on a graph, my main problem is not the x-y point of it or dy/dx... it's the d2y/dx2 of it.) I am borderline-fine with each action she is doing in each moment, but I am saddened (and frankly disturbed) by the person she's becoming..... more so because we have very few (and probably very turbulent) episodes left for it to get back onto the right track.

For every character in the drama (except for Queen Yoo and Jung, whose feelings/motivations I cannot fathom and don't even care enough to try), I love the way the writer has given the light-and-shade to their motivations and actions. No one is really good, no one is really bad; they do noble/smart things but mostly for wrong/selfish reasons; they do evil/stupid things, but whenever they do that, we understand their dilemma or they redeem themselves in the later episodes. That's why when I sensed the hint of off-ness (I didn't know how else to put it) in Ep14 during most of their interactions, I overlooked it... or more like, I shelved it for later consideration. But writer-nim is nothing if not consistent when it comes to character-shaping, and I realize the off-ness in her demeanor persists in Ep15-16 episodes as well, so it has convinced me that the character trajectory is actually intentional. So when I wrote my post, I had to put in every point of frustration in the episodes... each of it is not too big a crime but the culmination of it doesn't paint her as a woman I can respect.

 

Now to the specific points. First, the easiest one to deal with: Trust issue regarding Eun. As I have mentioned in my earlier post, my main problem in that plot-point, unlike most viewers, is not about the trust issue:

20 hours ago, zi4r said:

Given what's at stake --- the lives of two people she cares about --- it is more than forgivable that she would be unwilling to put her trust in WS at the risk of two lives. Not to mention, she knows that he would do anything to save her; so she trusts him to keep her safe, and thus, if at the risk of her life, she can't trust him to keep Eun safe. (Erm..... Am I making sense??? ) So for that particular plot-point, my main problem isn't the trust issue. My main problem lies with her (and Jung's) illogical and half-baked plan of escape. The kindest way to see it is: she's just naive and thinks that she can single-handedly get them to safety somehow. The harsher way to see it is: her focus is not on saving them; it's mainly on making sure the vision doesn't come true... on not getting the blood on her hands or WS's. She got tunnel-visioned because the vision consumed her, and in her mind, getting them away from WS became her ultimate goal.

 

Next point, the last scene of Ep16. @jayakris, this part is for you too. This is the point @40somethingahjumma has managed to shift my position. But let me clarify my position first... because many people seem to have misinterpreted my post.

Unlike most people that are criticizing HS, I don't feel as if she is asking him to give up the throne for her. She knows that her visions are coming true. And she has always trusted in that vision of him becoming King (Remember how she didn't worry about his safety during the battle scene, because she believed he wouldn't die and would become Gwangjong?). So she knows it's (almost) inevitable that he would be King. And as I have said, she knows that they can't run away from the throne or the wrath of whoever possesses it, no matter how hard they try. So I doubt, at this stage, she would even try and stop him.

The problem I have with that scene is the burden she adds to his shoulders, while being fully aware of how much these past years of servitude to a King has cost him. In my mind, this is another iteration of the Jung's hiding scene. She's trying, yet again, to establish where she stands in his life. She wishes to reaffirm how much she matters (or not) to him, compared to the throne.

I know that she has been burned before by WW's promises and ambition. Well, firstly, she shouldn't be extrapolating someone's (WW) character and motivations on another (WS)..... but that's not the main kink in her logic. After watching WS brought to his knees before traitor Yo, after watching Yo yank him around like a dog on a leash, after witnessing Eun's death at WS's hands, after just experiencing the arrow-rescue scene, she needs to ask why he has changed? (I might be giving her too much credit here but) I don't think she's unaware of the reasons behind his change in stance. It's not her trying to change his mind; I think this is her way of making him admit the fact that he's putting the throne before her.

Do I understand her motivation? Yes. But I found myself unable to forgive her for it, because just like the scene with Jung, this seemed like an ultimately pointless and petty statement. She seems very much aware that this move would not have done anything at all, except to make the man she supposedly loves feel guilty about it. Now, I am sorry to put this on her very thin shoulders. But I had high hopes of HS becoming a worthy partner to the great man WS is destined to be, his right hand, and later the soft power behind his rule. Because tragic as it seems, taking a backseat is what it means to be the partner to a great man/woman. Yet amidst all her insecurities, I am not seeing the maturity necessary in her to become the woman she needs to be for him.

BUT..... Having said that, @40somethingahjumma's post managed to sway me (not fully, but maybe I'll get there in the next episode) that the scene is not as bad as I took it to be. Almost the whole point of your post is about communication (or lack thereof) on WS's part, and how it adds to HS's insecurities. You draw the trend from the miscommunication during the kid-marriage saga to the 3 year separation, and how it would have kept HS totally off-balanced...... and I can see that now. That allows me to see another point to that conversation; maybe she feels, if he can just admit to her and himself how much he has changed, it will allow their rift to at least start healing. And that kinda revives my hope in HS character and OTP relationship, because while I still feel that there isn't enough time left (I'm not just talking about the number of episodes here; I'm talking about the fact that WS is becoming King and now it will be harder to resolve their relationship issues), maybe there is some hope of salvaging whatever happiness they can find in each other, even in these dark times.

So really, massive thank-you for this. This will greatly help me enjoy/bear the upcoming episode.

 

Erm.... sorry no, my lengthy post hasn't ended.  Now moving on to WS.....

I agree with your criticism of WS about the boat scene, how he failed to disclose about the marriage fiasco. And about the 3-year unexplained separation. But I need to add one more layer to that point. For both cases, WS has never expected himself to be forgiven or taken back after what he thought to be unforgivable crimes in her eyes. And he has never really thought himself to be worthy of her love (or anyone's love, really). Actually, there have been a few parallels to this:

• Ep12: "Let's get married. You can divorce me afterwards." (He is ready for her to discard him afterwards. But he wants some stolen moments of freedom with her.)
• Ep14: Kid-marriage & boat scene. (He feels she won't forgive him for the marriage fiasco. But he wants stolen moments of momentary calm with her.)
• Ep16: 3 years separation after accusing her of being responsible for Eun. (He truly intends for the relationship to break off here. He never intended for her to wait for him. This is the moment when his priorities changed; the relationship has started to take a backseat by this point. His priorities are 1. to have the power to control his own life and 2. her safety. No stolen moments here.)
• Ep16: Intimacy and then discussion about the throne. (His priorities hasn't changed from the previous point. Only, she's aware of that now. He is not trying to salvage the relationship here either. Whether she leaves him or not, his position is not changing. Stolen moments: intimacy, of course --- that's being an a***ole, I have massive problems with WS in that scene too.)

But this is very different from how it used to be for him. When one falls in love, one first goes through the all-consuming stage when one wants to possess a person --- the stage where passion (and lust) takes a front and center seat... and in that state, possession is the first and foremost motivation (especially in alpha males). WS went through that in full bulldozer mode until Ep12 --- the forced kiss, "I will kill your lover"; he had no one else but her, and he must HAVE her. At that stage, one "loves" a person for all the selfish reasons; one feels the need to test said person to see where the relationship stands because of one's insecurities. But as the feelings mature, it reaches a point where one's need to protect and give overrides the need to possess. WS is already at that stage by the end of Ep12. He hopes she lives well and happy, with or without him by her side.

Do I like that he never seems to give her a choice? Not at all. But does it make sense? Yes.

You are right in saying that a relationship needs communication to work. But what I'm not sure is whether they have truly fully blossomed into a relationship at all. I might be reading it all wrong, but right before the boat scene, they were still at the point in the courtship where WS jumped through the hoops to get her affection, and he (rightly or not) felt that he hadn't won over her heart yet. And actually, he doesn't even seem to think he deserves her heart either. Only when they meet at the boat scene, he has the inkling/confirmation (depends on how you look at it) of her feelings for him. But knowing how adamantly against she is with plural marriage, he feels that this brand-new stage of the relationship won't survive such a hit. So he seeks a selfish & cowardly way out of it, and I understand him but am truly disappointed in him for that.

But about the 3 years separation though... I stand by WS's decision. If I were WS, I wouldn't tell HS the plans about the throne either, especially after the mess with Eun and particularly because he has already made the decision to let her go. She has ever been a liability for him, and he always a threat to her livelihood. Her knowledge of the plan might salvage the relationship (which he doesn't intend to do) but would only jeopardize their safety. I am not sure whether he judges her as harshly as I do when it comes to her logical thinking, but she always seems to flounder and endanger herself whenever she's put through a grinder to make important decisions at critical times. As he knows nothing about her visions, her decisions would be utterly incomprehensible to him most of the time. Yes, it's trust issue here on his part too..... But given what you call to be a foolhardy streak in her and what I call to be the logical-yoga mode (as in, her logic or lack-thereof is mind-bending to me) she goes into whenever she's in a tough bind, in my opinion, WS should not trust her to keep herself & him safe and to deal with the issue of the throne. Such knowledge comes with responsibility..... the responsibility that she cannot possibly bear or should be expected to bear.

Now, about how far along each of them seems to be in this relationship..... I said WS's has fully matured. And HS? Well, since HS started late in this courtship, of course I understand that she would take longer time to get to the stage WS is in; I just am not prepared for how long she seems to be taking, because after 2 years of Mu's reign, she seems to have barely slid into the full-possession mode.

And it's doubly hard to stomach this, because time has understandably hardened HS... but that change in her seems to be particularly towards WS (and of course, WW)! Towards many others, she is still the self-sacrificing and kindhearted girl (well, lady now) that she used to be. While WS's feelings have matured from possession to protection to finally letting go, HS's seems to have gone downhill from the unconditional acceptance about his flaws, to questioning his motivations towards her every step of the way. I know that in the harsh times of Goryeo, one has to be selfish to survive; but her selfishness seems to extend more (or only) towards WS, and that really messes me up in the head.

So back to my main point of character trajectory..... I hope in the next 4 episodes, they can try and salvage the trajectory of both characters in a way that their coming together would make some form of a happy union. ***fingers crossed***

 

 

And while I was writing this lengthy post, @pass3rby wrote my point about HS's trajectory in a short-and-sweet fashion, especially the highlighted part. (Sigh... I need to learn how to do that.) So let me share it here:

8 hours ago, pass3rby said:

Ep 16 was wrapped with HS nagging and whining about WS's decision to be king. For me, it shows that HS is moving to the opposite direction to WS. Now that the time has come, she's going to doubt WS' decision and try to pull him only for her. As @braiser101 put it, she has lost the momentum. Although i am hoping that this is the time when she would finally realize that people CHANGE, it is inevitable. But the cause and the aim of the change that what's important. 

Ep.1 Go Ha Jin said that "I thought if i didn't change the people i trusted and liked wouldn't change either."

Ep 8, when she put on make up to WS she said "Therefore, i intend not to change, If you trust me first, your highness, I will not change first."

That scene in Ep.8 is a contradiction. HS said that she wouldn't change but she's changing herself and changing WangSo at the same time, literally and metaphorically.

 

Edited October 24, 2016 by zi4r
grammar and flow

[ShaiKeun]

ATM.. I am listening to the SHR OST, and i feel, i will  burst into tears. I have these mixed emotions: 

1.  I can already watch my long awaited ep 17 tonight. 

2. Wang So will be king but he will lost his beloved Haee Soo ( if they will follow the Chinese version)

3. SHR ending is coming nearer and nearer. 

4. I won't see LJK and IU together again. 

5.  I am nervous and worried about the ending. 

Am i crazy or what? 

 

 

 

[qwenli]

@zi4r to be honest, I just sort of glance thru your post, because its very long.....

Thought this pix is funny! 

[rei_smasher11]

21 minutes ago, junejungki said:

Can our Korean friends here can translate what are they saying.

 

4seasonwithIU subbed some parts of the clip 

Still waiting for this to happen! Was this cut? 

[penelop3]

1 hour ago, LyraYoo said:

 

 

Seeing how Jung never once defends Soo in front of his mom (come on, how hard it is to stop your mom from shaking the person that you care the most!) - I am now royally pissed that Soo will end up with Jung. 
Also, from the collective surprise loo, I'd gather So said something damning that knocks Evil Mom down - something about Yo's treachery perhaps? His uncle? 

Hiks.. need Eng sub.
Oh! @rei_smasher11 Thank youuuuu!!!  

[kingpin]

Moon Lovers EP17 WangSo & Haesoo still cuts!

 

 

[zi4r]

3 minutes ago, qwenli said:

@zi4r to be honest, I just sort of glance thru your post, because its very long.....

Hahahahah!!! Such refreshing honesty, chingu. Yes, I suck at keeping posts short. 

 

So........ please tell me that.....

... this news is confirmed??? Please, please, pretty please. If so, I think I'm skipping work tonight. I needa settle my MLSHR madness before I can get back to productive mode.

[Silvermaine]

http://tvcast.naver.com/v/1192888

Can someone please translate I'm dying here