[Drama 2016-2017] Guardian: The Lonely and Great Goblin 도깨비

[carolinedl]

Ah, I also don't want a loss of memory. It feels like an easy way out... And yes reincarnation and death both imply a loss of memory, but, but... I just don't want that...

 

@bebebisous33 Liked your analysis of the butterfly. So true. May I add that in literature, the butterfly is also a very dual image: it symbolizes beauty but also mystery. It has a darker side to it too.

Here is a quote from the Italian writer Primo Levi:

But the butterfly’s attractiveness derives not only from colors and symmetry: deeper motives contribute to it. We would not think them so beautiful if they did not fly, or if they flew straight and briskly like bees, or if they stung, or above all if they did not enact the perturbing mystery of metamorphosis: the latter assumes in our eyes the value of an incompletely decoded message, a symbol and a sign.

Primo Levi – “Butterflies”

As can be observed in this quote, the butterfly’s metamorphoses appear to be a message that needs to be decoded, a part of a mystery which fascinates and transcends our understanding. Levi adds that this mystery is all the more puzzling given that the insect is transformed from the ugliness of the caterpillar into the majesty of the butterfly. Once again, life and death connect through these transformations: “it is a second birth, but at the same time it is a death: what has flown away is a psyche, a soul, and the ripped-open cocoon left on the ground is the mortal remains”, Levi claims while alluding to the butterfly’s final metamorphosis. He thus introduces the possibility that the butterfly foreshadows something cryptic, which is not necessarily positive and which is not in accordance with its apparent beauty.

I think this describes well the God we have in Goblin. Remember what Samshim said at the beginning, that God was selfish and jealous...

 

[cristala]

48 minutes ago, melonpark said:

 

I love this post... I felt giddy while reading this because I thought I'm the only one who noticed the subtle interest of GY to KGE. And I love their bts -- from their good rapport to their playful actions... most especially the stolen glances of GY. Lol 

But yeah, I guess our ship is somewhere far far away.. And who knows, maybe the deity will be kind and hear our pleas (since the deity's always listening) and our ship will sail far from fantasy.  

Me too..knowing this ship is impossible right now... But I notice those secret glances too..sometimes I assume that Maybe it's his first time meeting someone who has same personality as him.. I really can't believe that both have same personality..on cam GE is really a sweet shy girl but offcam I saw how playful she is..and she really speak her mind... 

[enigmatic_zephy]

So,  don't get the logic..

"Forget about all pain in this life and last and remember only the good. Forget me in this life and last"

Forgotten all bad things - check

WY is a sadbut happy memory.. because sehe loved him - GR not forgotten from this or past memory - check

Forget about me - WHy did YIN not forget GR?

[Carmarie]

OMG! Episode 12 is the best episode yet.  Kudos to the writer, director and actors. This drama is well written, the writer has kept me anxiously waiting for the next episode since episode three.  I am counting the days to episode 13 and 14.  I am going to read some of the comments to find out what theories you have, for the most part, they have been well thought out and makes me rethink my conclusions.  Unless another drama comes along later in 2017 that is better written, directed and acted, this will be my favorite fantasy drama of the year and perhaps of all time.

[ShinRaeMi]

If LDW was not supposed to be the writer's choice to play Wang Yeo, who is it? I saw somewhere that it was supposed to be Kim Woo Bin. Is it true?

[carolinedl]

@itzibitzispider and @hushhh I think it's time for someone to do a collage/art of ET and KS's horse!! That would be awesome! Ha ha ha

 @ktiminie J'étais à Paris pour les fêtes mais je suis de retour à Boston jusqu'en juin. Et toi? Quoi de neuf?

 

[Nymeria289]

6 minutes ago, enigmatic_zephy said:

So,  don't get the logic..

"Forget about all pain in this life and last and remember only the good. Forget me in this life and last"

Forgotten all bad things - check

WY is a sadbut happy memory.. because sehe loved him - GR not forgotten from this or past memory - check

Forget about me - WHy did YIN not forget GR?

I'd like to think its love. Their story hasn't ended yet. I think 900 years of pain and loneliness is enough to pay for your sins in one lifetime so she may do the same. Here's hoping my GR-Sunny couple can sail together.

[lorac529]

2 hours ago, ireumimolla said:

I still have to back-read about 15 pages, but I saw quite a few people asking about Ji Eun-tak's Death cards that appeared in Episodes 9 and 12, so I just HAD to do some digging else I won't be able to sleep tonight lol.

In Ep 9, the first death card appeared.

Spoiler

The year written on it was  丙申年 (bǐngshēn), which was 2016. Kim Shin manages to find Euntak at the Ski Resort before she died of hypothermia.

Then the New Year happened in Episode 10.

In Episode 11 when Reaper told Kim Shin about the 2nd death card of Euntak falling to her death '2 weeks from now', the death card wasn't shown to us viewers (at least not that I remember of), as we only see the blank death card from Kim Shin's POV. In this episode, we also saw Euntak summoning Kim Shin multiple times as the 2 weeks pass by, before her fall was supposed to happen.

EDIT: (thanks to @itzibitzispider for pointing out the error!) I missed out. But this just goes to show even more that both the dates are different.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Then in Episode 12 (screen shot borrowed), we are shown another death card. The date is: 丁酉年 癸卯月 戊子日 which is some time in March of 2017 (note that this is the Lunar Year 2017, which is taking place on 28 Jan). Therefore, I believe that the Death card shown in Ep 12 should be a new one, since the 2 weeks mentioned by the Reaper has already lapsed in Ep 11. Euntak's date of demise was merely postponed to a later date.

 

.

 

This thread is in lightning speed! I had to backread so many pages before i can answer this as I was busy with work.

@ireumimolla: i have to quote & put your photos in spoiler as I don't want moderator deleting them.  Even though Episode 12 shows another death card that says "丁酉年 癸卯月 戊子日". This writing actually revealed in Episode 11 when ET came to realise the ghost's husband killed the ghost at the rooftop.  Here's the animated gif that took me so long to make (sorry i'm not really good at it).  As you can see, the card in Episode 11 has changed from "丁酉年 壬寅月 乙亥日" = February of Lunar Year 2017 to "丁酉年 癸卯月 戊子日", so the card is not new.  And you are right, "丁酉年 癸卯月" happens in March of Lunar Year 2017.

However, when the episode 11 was airing, the way they were cutting it, it gives me the impression that death has came upon now, so I wonder what is this about.  

@sooyoungdaebak: totally love what you said!  I wish to sail with you but like @NRGchick said, I cannot start another ship!
 

[enigmatic_zephy]

2 minutes ago, Nymeria289 said:

I'd like to think its love. Their story hasn't ended yet. I think 900 years of pain and loneliness is enough to pay for your sins in one lifetime so she may do the same. Here's hoping my GR-Sunny couple can sail together.

no so my question is.. its love that is why he is a happy memory.. so when he said forget sad memories, he counterattacked it by saying remember good.

But then last statement was forget me.. and she didn't for get him?

That has to be a blooper..

 

However, i guess this is enough to convince the king that queen did love him.

Also, i guess everyone is talking of fear and jealousy in case of the king but i strongly don't buy that..

 

He was never jealous or fearful of shin.. he had only person who was his own.. his queen.. only one person he trusted and loved.. and queen's life was in danger ebcause of the brother (KS).. King's only fault is that he knew he was very weak and controlled.. Its not that he didnt know PJW is evil and had to be told by queen... He also knew that PJW has his own companions... so it is not as easy as killing him and be done with all problems... he couldnot tell queen any of this because she can't react and make more enemies.. he couldn't show compassion to queen.. else it would lead to questions and doubts again putting her in danger..

 

I think king was quite brave in the scenario... Was trying so hard to save KS and Queen. KS is an action person not a wise minister. so not really the person to confess secretstoo...

[ShinRaeMi]

4 hours ago, selenette said:

@shynaz  Aigoo  dear you remind me of the similarities between The Twilight Saga and this show. 

Kim Shin's abilities to see the future (Alice Cullen) and to hear thoughts (Edward Cullen),

Eun-tak's selflessness (Bella Swan),

Kim Shin has started to hear Eun-tak's thoughts after her Bride mark gradually fades (Edward could hear Bella's thoughts after she was vampirized)...hmmm

EDIT

Bella's false friends = Eun-tak's cruel classmates

The normal girl who befriends supernatural creatures = Bella and Eun-tak

May I know on what particular scene did Kim Shin heard ET's thoughts? 

[ShinRaeMi]

9 minutes ago, lorac529 said:

This thread is in lightning speed! I had to backread so many pages before i can answer this as I was busy with work.

@ireumimolla: i have to quote & put your photos in spoiler as I don't want moderator deleting them.  Even though Episode 12 shows another death card that says "丁酉年 癸卯月 戊子日". This writing actually revealed in Episode 11 when ET came to realise the ghost's husband killed the ghost at the rooftop.  Here's the animated gif that took me so long to make (sorry i'm not really good at it).  As you can see, the card in Episode 11 has changed to "丁酉年 癸卯月 戊子日", so the card is not new.  And you are right, "丁酉年 癸卯月" happens in March of Lunar Year 2017.

However, when the episode 11 was airing, the way they were cutting it, it gives me the impression that death has came upon now, so I wonder what is this about.  

 

Maybe the timeline of the drama when ET went in the rooftop is already March 2017. Remember, she already graduated from high school so I think it is not January in the drama.

[Carmarie]

12 hours ago, hairuchii said:

We should also forget about seeing any kind of sexual chemistry between Kim Shin and Eun Tak at this stage. She is still barely 20 (her birthday is in Oct). Kim Eun Sook Writer-nim and the entire team would be extra careful not to offend any viewers and to be accused of indecency. I'm sure they would have also read the fuss about a 19-year-old and a 939-year-old goblin. They would want to avoid negative press, really.

We may have to wait till Eun Tak is 29.  Even then - it's too late to show any sexual chemistry on our screen. Let's just imagine and be happy with the chemistry we see right now

These are good actors, they are able show sexual attraction to each other without deep kissing.  They do it with looks, smiles, hugs, and touching of the hair, great job.  

You are right, people would get upset about a 939 year old male character and a character playing a 19 girl having too much physical contact. Although, actress is a grown woman in reality there would be a lot of much a do about nothing. The writer is smart and knows her viewership in Asia. 

[scarlite08]

Just wondering....

1. What's the significant role of the boy that Eun Tak keeps meeting when she throws the trash?

2. How about Eun Tak class president who gave her phone number? What will she do in Eun Taks future?

3. What happen to the mail the Eun Tak dropped in the mailbox? What's written there?

4. Will all of Eun Tak ghost friends have closure? There's like 3 left. 

5. Will Eun Tak's aunt still find her? 

 

 

[Nymeria289]

12 minutes ago, enigmatic_zephy said:

 

He was never jealous or fearful of shin.. he had only person who was his own.. his queen.. only one person he trusted and loved.. and queen's life was in danger ebcause of the brother (KS).. King's only fault is that he knew he was very weak and controlled.. Its not that he didnt know PJW is evil and had to be told by queen... He also knew that PJW has his own companions... so it is not as easy as killing him and be done with all problems... he couldnot tell queen any of this because she can't react and make more enemies.. he couldn't show compassion to queen.. else it would lead to questions and doubts again putting her in danger..

 

Agreed but he chose to believe him in the one moment when he needed to trust her. One moment of mistrust had him kill her and then years of regret that followed. I believe we've got so much story-line and raw emotions to deal with when it comes to Reaper and Sunny, so much unresolved love, hatred, regret and passion all the same and I am scared if we'll get that or not. I really wish they do give us that.

[enigmatic_zephy]

2 minutes ago, Nymeria289 said:

Agreed but he chose to believe him in the one moment when he needed to trust her. One moment of mistrust had him kill her and then years of regret that followed. I believe we've got so much story-line and raw emotions to deal with when it comes to Reaper and Sunny, so much unresolved love, hatred, regret and passion all the same and I am scared if we'll get that or not. I really wish they do give us that.

Hmm.. but that's where I am coming from.. just because PJW said sthg doesn't mean king bought it..

Dn't think he believed any of it.. but he had to kill him to save the queen.. n that strategy failed.. plus as a king... ur ultimate duty is for public to see you as fair .. so he knew queen will die and decided to keep KS away, KS came back .. king's hands were tied and he had to kill KS irrespective. but queen came in between...

That is why it was a very conscious decision knowing that no one in that courtyard could save him the king or is on his side ( i am guessing that girl was trying to become concubine.. on PW's insistence)

[lorac529]

17 minutes ago, ShinRaeMi said:

Maybe the timeline of the drama when ET went in the rooftop is already March 2017. Remember, she already graduated from high school so I think it is not January in the drama.

 

hmm but the card in episode 11 changed from "丁酉年 壬寅月 乙亥日" = February of lunar year 2017  to "丁酉年 癸卯月 戊子日" = March of lunar year 2017....so it seems like ET's death has been postponed unless it's an error made by the drama team.

Anyone can shed lights whether Koreans can graduate from high school in the winter?

 

[mouse007]

Re-watching episode 11 and can I just say how much I adore this scene??

 

They're so lovely and cute together and you can totally see how happy and in-love they are with each other. 

 

Does anyone know the song that is playing in the background?

 

 

[hushhh]

52 minutes ago, carolinedl said:

Ah, I also don't want a loss of memory. It feels like an easy way out... And yes reincarnation and death both imply a loss of memory, but, but... I just don't want that...

 

@bebebisous33 Liked your analysis of the butterfly. So true. May I add that in literature, the butterfly is also a very dual image: it symbolizes beauty but also mystery. It has a darker side to it too.

Here is a quote from the Italian writer Primo Levi:

But the butterfly’s attractiveness derives not only from colors and symmetry: deeper motives contribute to it. We would not think them so beautiful if they did not fly, or if they flew straight and briskly like bees, or if they stung, or above all if they did not enact the perturbing mystery of metamorphosis: the latter assumes in our eyes the value of an incompletely decoded message, a symbol and a sign.

 

Primo Levi – “Butterflies”

 

As can be observed in this quote, the butterfly’s metamorphoses appear to be a message that needs to be decoded, a part of a mystery which fascinates and transcends our understanding. Levi adds that this mystery is all the more puzzling given that the insect is transformed from the ugliness of the caterpillar into the majesty of the butterfly. Once again, life and death connect through these transformations: “it is a second birth, but at the same time it is a death: what has flown away is a psyche, a soul, and the ripped-open cocoon left on the ground is the mortal remains”, Levi claims while alluding to the butterfly’s final metamorphosis. He thus introduces the possibility that the butterfly foreshadows something cryptic, which is not necessarily positive and which is not in accordance with its apparent beauty.

I think this describes well the God we have in Goblin. Remember what Samshim said at the beginning, that God was selfish and jealous...

 

Butterflies are an amazing metaphor for transformation moving from caterpillar (human) through (pupa) into a butterfly (godlike) state.

[lorac529]

8 minutes ago, mouse007 said:

Re-watching episode 11 and can I just say how much I adore this scene??

 

They're so lovely and cute together and you can totally see how happy and in-love they are with each other. 

 

Does anyone know the song that is playing in the background?

 

Yes, they're so lovely & cute.  Their great chemistry is beyond words!!  The song is actually Roy Kim's Heaven that is yet to be released.  Most likely this week!

[mouse007]

2 minutes ago, lorac529 said:

 

Yes, they're so lovely & cute.  Their great chemistry is beyond words!!  The song is actually Roy Kim's Heaven that is yet to be released.  Most likely this week!

 

Ahh thank you!! I can't wait for it to be released!