[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner

[antiherofans]

22 minutes ago, stevii said:

Firstly, thankyou for sharing this and clarifying!  secondly, omyGod this just destroys all little hope i've got left..... :" :" he will never reach in time won't he  

 

I am afraid, he won't

OMG, if they show us Wang So try to reach Hae Soo as fast as he can with the horse when she is dying, but he is too late

THAT'S JUST PLAIN CRUEL DIRECTOR NIM, do you want us to die???

[lyserose]

6 hours ago, owlcat said:

 Hi can you tell me which interview he stated they were running out of time in please? I would love to watch or read the interview. Thanks  

Hi. Sorry dear. I can't quite recall where I read it but I am certain of the article. They are quite a number of our members here who have read and quoted what Joon Gi's mentioned in the article. Apologized that I could not help with this further. 

[Adnana]

@40somethingahjumma I've very much enjoyed all your recent commentary on E18. There's 2 sticking points left, though, that bother me quite a bit. And by that, I mean a whole freaking LOT.

1) Don't you agree that the writing in E18 made it seem like Soo decided to leave So because he'd killed her "little sister"? Which given everything that Chae Ryung did (up to and including her involvement in the deaths of 2!! of Soo's beloved princes), just makes it impossible to even begin to understand where Soo's head is at. And it makes me really bitter that she'd leave So for this reason, especially as not very long ago she promised him that she'd stay with him always. Why is she always breaking her promises to So only?

Anyway, I'm curious what line of dialogue or gesture made you think that because she, Soo, keeps getting used against So, she's decided to leave the Palace in order to protect him. I think it was something along these lines that you said? But I just don't see it.

2) In C-BBJX, Ruo Xi first asked the Emperor (4th Prince) to let her leave the Palace, and it was only AFTER he told her that he'd never allow her to leave him, that she asked for 14th Prince's help. So I'm bitterly disappointed for this reason as well, that Soo didn't even possess the common decency to talk to So first before sending for Jung, to explain that she wants to leave and to ask him to allow it. He might have understood and respected her wish! Fine, he likely wouldn't have, but why isn't she giving him even ONE chance? Doesn't he deserve at least that much after all they've been through together, after everything he's done for her? Why does Soo, whenever the going gets tough, always and forever default to expecting the worst from So? 

And anyway, if Soo wants to leave the Palace, doesn't she have a mouth to argue her case and 2 feet to carry her away? Why must she immediately involve other people--moreover 14th Prince who

(a) is So's full blood brother and already has a bad relationship with him--which would only get further strained because of Soo's irresponsible decision; and

(b) is in freaking house arrest and denied entry to the capital under pain of death!

I keep trying to understand and sympathize with Soo, only to keep hitting a wall... again... and again... and again.

[ChewyChocolate]

GJ: Soo! You look so pretty in that mask! Shall we go for our lantern date?

(Minutes later)

GJ: We're alone now. Let me take off your mas - OMGGGGG!!!!!

Wook: Surprise!!!!

GJ: Wook????!!!

Wook: Yeah, it's me, your destiny, Queen Wook.

GJ: Y..your hair....

Wook: Never knew I had such long silky hair beneath that bun, eh?

GJ: Your e..ears..

Wook: Oh, these? I stole these dangly earrings from YH.

GJ: A..are you wearing a hairpin????

Wook: Oh, that's mine. I have quite a few in my collection.

GJ: T..the sideburns?

Wook: I stole these from Jung. 

GJ: I..Is that a gown you're wearing?

Wook: I borrowed this from Soo. I like the pretty floral pattern. I'm so done with those black outfits.

GJ: I..I

Wook: You..you hahahaha Well, say something, silly, we're on our first date, after all.

GJ: W..What????

Wook: Wanna hold hands?

GJ: OMG. No.

Wook: Want a back hug? I'll go first.

GJ: No. OMG. Stay away from me, please...

Wook: A piggy back? We haven't had that yet in the drama.

GJ: I'm getting out of here!

Wook: Hey, come back here...we haven't started dating, and you're dumping me?

 

 

[lyserose]

17 minutes ago, shinaabby said:

When was this song played? I dont remember hearing it.

This is the BGM when So went on the monk killing spree in episode 3. The only BGM I still could not find anywhere is the drumming hum when So asked Yeon Hwa if she could pledge her loyalty only to him and turn her back on Wook and her family, when she was initiating for them to consummate their marriage at their bed chamber. I have played all those instrumental tracks but could not find the BGM anywhere. Totally frustrating 

[moonlover399993]

2 minutes ago, ChewyChocolate said:

GJ: Soo! You look so pretty in that mask! Shall we go for our lantern date?

(Minutes later)

GJ: We're alone now. Let me take off your mas - OMGGGGG!!!!!

Wook: Surprise!!!!

GJ: Wook????!!!

Wook: Yeah, it's me, your destiny, Queen Wook.

GJ: Y..your hair....

Wook: Never knew I had such long silky hair beneath that bun, eh?

GJ: Your e..ears..

Wook: Oh, these? I stole these dangly earrings from YH.

GJ: A..are you wearing a hairpin????

Wook: Oh, that's mine. I have quite a few in my collection.

GJ: T..the sideburns?

Wook: I stole these from Jung. 

GJ: I..Is that a gown you're wearing?

Wook: I borrowed this from Soo. I like the pretty floral pattern. I'm so done with those black outfits.

GJ: I..I

Wook: You..you hahahaha Well, say something, silly, we're on our first date, after all.

GJ: W..What????

Wook: Wanna hold hands?

GJ: OMG. No.

Wook: Want a back hug? I'll go first.

GJ: No. OMG. Stay away from me, please...

Wook: A piggy back? We haven't had that yet in the drama.

GJ: I'm getting out of here!

Wook: Hey, come back here...we haven't started dating, and you're dumping me?

 

 

HAHA, thanks for the laugh!

[vwj1]

33 minutes ago, Mona Ys said:

 

hehehe.. yes, they were both in LJG's previous drama Two Weeks  I just rewatch it last weekend when I was missing LJG so much. 

 

WW was also in it too. He played the disabled son of the evil lady (forgot her name). I thought WW acted his little part in Two Weeks really well.  

[dramu51ch0c10ve]

20 minutes ago, violet90 said:

fast forward... Su will get what she wish that she forgot everything and meet with future So.. cause i don't think the writer can solved So remember anything from his past... better to forgot everything and just start their own love story... making one remember and another one don't is just too cruel..

So I read the post from @violet90 and watched the very beginning of SHR.What if....what you said comes true?Initially I thought that these words I tweeted was for when she resurfaced in the bathing area in Goryeo.But I tried to think again.This may be a little too far fetched for some of you but what if they are related to the ending?Here's my take:

I want to forget everything - Has she forgotten what happened to her in the 21st century before she was dragged into Goryeo?With all that's going on,she doesn't have the time to think about it.So she might have forgotten.Will she forget everything in Goryeo should she return to the 21st century?Maybe she won't.I think that whatever has happened in Goryeo has caused her tremendous stress and trauma.Her memories of Goryeo may become repressed memories(look at the end for reference) My guess is that if she returns to 21st century and sees a WangSo look alike,she might notice that he is familiar to her but she may not remember what both of them went through in Goryeo.So in a way she forgets.

Your life can't change just because you want it to.Maybe if you died and came back to life again - It seems that these 2 sentences have already come true in the first episode when she resurfaced in the princes' bathing area.But I think this might also happen in the ending.When she returns to the 21st century she has another chance at changing her life again.But here comes a question...How can you change your life when the whole boyfriend fiasco has already happened(because the whole boyfriend richard simmons was what made GoHaJin want to change things in the first place).

Okayyyy this is when I drop a theory that many of you might not agree with.I suddenly thought to myself.What if...GoHaJin wakes up in the 21st century but not after being chased by ahjummas or betrayed by her boyfriend and best friend.Whatever hell that her boyfriend gave her hasn't happened yet when she reawakens.Perhaps she reawakes at the point of her life where she first met her boyfriend.Don't you think that she is able to change her life now?And...what if at this point of time,whilst hanging out with her boyfriend/friend/boyfriend-to-be that she suddenly notices a WangSo look alike.So familiar yet she can't point out where she has seen him before.But that look alike guy is like a magnet which draws her to him.And then that's when they meet.Her noticing WangSo look alike in this 'new' life might not have happened before in her 'old' life before she was dragged into Goryeo because she might have been so into her boyfriend to notice anyone else.By now noticing WangSo look alike,her life will change.

To fall asleep and never wake up again - I put these words in a different colour because they seem to contradict whatever I have said so far.This sentence implies that HaeSoo will be dead and the soul of GoHaJin will not reincarnate into anything.Her soul will just sleep and never reawaken.This might,though,provide an alternative ending to whatever I had just said above.

Confused?Yeah my brain went kapoosh at the end of this post.I have no idea how I thought of all these.They seem too far fetched but I just have to put it here.What do you guys think?Any chance of it happening?

*You can read http://mentalhealthdaily.com/2015/06/15/repressed-memories-causes-mechanisms-coping-strategies/ to know more about repressed memories.*

[dramu51ch0c10ve]

47 minutes ago, pass3rby said:

The sun is shining brightly that the water evaporated to be the cloud. It would take a thousand years for the cloud to fall down as rain.

OMG I soooo love the line you posted here.It's really sad that they have to wait 1000 years before meeting again

[liddi]

@ChewyChocolate LOLOL! Your lantern date parody came at just the right time, when all of us are getting maudlin... even myself, the moment I revisited the ending of the novel, despite knowing it so well. Thank you... you're a lifesaver!  

@stevii @soorani I personally don't hold much (if any) hope that So and Soo will meet before she dies  However, I can totally imagine @antiherofans's scenario being played out if they were to tweak the ending... because it would be so in his character to ride like a man possessed to try in vain, to see her one last time. Which means, he did read her letter after all, but arrives too late to take back the words he lashed out at her when they parted last. And that... would utterly break him in a way that nothing else had managed to do.

@violet90 I know right? She is all alone in the end, bereft of everyone who truly loved her, whom she truly loved. I know Jung will be good to her, just as 14th was to Ruoxi, but it will be cold comfort, after all that she has lost.

[isengdoang]

the instrumental musics...love them especially 'love for haeso"... reminds me the scene where HS (as a loundry maid) is drying her loundry... and she see WS behind the white linens... so touchy... beautiful

[violet90]

you know what make me want to cry later on when Su die???? 

she did said to Jung that she want to travel go to the dessert and ocean.. that's why she did't want to be buried cause once again even after death she still tied to one place.. when she alive the palace make her suffer and she being caged the whole time so when she die she want to be free like a bird... and she will ask Jung to cremated and scatter her ash.. i don't know but it will break my heart seeing Jung will explain to So what Su truly wanted cause all this time he did't know Su have that ambition... 

there is so many thing that So did't know actually.. yes he been in love with her so many years but now that she loves him everything that she wanted she burried deep down in order to stay with him.. i think it will destroy So knowing all this...

[sweetpealover]

51 minutes ago, shinaabby said:

When was this song played? I dont remember hearing it.

 

In Episode 11 and 13, when WangSo Runs to HaeSoo before the Hanging to save her  and when HaeSoo searching for WangSo to inform him that the King is Dead and when WangSo and Wook fight. Like parts and pieces of the soundtrack is scattered in the scenes.

 

 

 

[zagigirl]

8 hours ago, Brenda Capers said:

I MUST REITERATE THIS AGAIN............WHY IF THE WRITERS/DIRECTORS HAVING TO BE PRECISE ON EXACT HISTORY....WHY IS HAESOO IN THIS DRAMA AS 21ST CENTURY CHARACTER WHICH WE ALL KNOW ISNT BASED ON HISTORY.........I HAVE STOPPED WATCHING THIS DRAMA SINCE EPISODE 14 BECAUSE I REFUSE TO WATCH WS MARRY YH AND I FEEL THAT IS WHERE THE DIRECTION HAS BEEN HEADING......AND AS FAR AS A PART II OF MOON LOVERS IN THE 21ST CENTURY IT WILL NOT MAKE UP FOR THE TRAGIC LOVE STORY OF WS & HS IN THIS DRAMA....SO I WILL NOT BE WATCHING THAT !!!!!!!!

Get your frustration chingu...

After chinese success... maybe it would be better but if they had gone in 2 different direction...using this initial plot and make it a clear rom-com fantasy or just longer brutal historical drama

Yes, many of us likes this drama...but if you ask me they dragged HS&Wook for to long then started to rush all in last few eps...lost a fantasy thing half way and try to stick to history too much...for me, the best part is WS character and LJG briliant performing

[zi4r]

On 10/26/2016 at 11:58 PM, dramu51ch0c10ve said:

Omg @zi4r your post was really brilliant! (Your post that keeps appearing every few pages).Also @briseis your posts are so insightful and thought-provoking.Always waiting for more to come. @40somethingahjumma I often find myself nodding my head whenever I read your posts.Your posts are amazing!

I was doing Chemistry and when I got back here...WOW 1600+ PAGES!!!!

You guys are so amazing!I can't bring myself to skip any page because I feel that every post is so important no matter how different your views are.You guys are clearly having different views after episode 18 and that means all of your posts are a good read!Varied opinions help us to see the larger picture

Am still not in the mood to post my thoughts.You guys seem to post what I had in mind and much more so I don't feel the urgent need to post something.I was depressed after watching episode 18 live.But reading your posts and watching BTS or looking thru the IG of the casts are helping me to regain normalcy.Glad to say that my mood is almost stable. @ChewyChocolate your posts always crack me up!Thanks for the much needed humour

Ok you guys...I'm just going to lurk until next Monday comes or something awesome happens that I have to comment.Will try to catchup with the page numbers as I juggle this,school and family life.Til next time!

Thank you for reading that monster-sized post, and for your kind words. Yes, people keep quoting the entirety of my juggernaut post.  Well, at least I've finally figured out how to make it less of a wall-of-text... "Spoiler tags"! One of blogosphere's greatest inventions for people like me who can't seem to keep their posts short.

Best of luck with Chemistry and school and family life, but be back here soon, yeah? Only 5 days left before the drama ends. As much as I'd like to get my life back from MLSHR's unrelenting grip, I am feeling really sad and worried that it would mean the end of vibrancy in this thread and MLSHR community. I hope the fandom stays alive (let's say, like the drama "Faith" did) even after the finale.

 

 

 

On 10/26/2016 at 3:33 PM, antiherofans said:

Yeon Hwa is a queen material. I am okay with Wang So marrying her (even tho I cry watching it) but I don't want this drama to show their baby making process. They can do it later after the drama is over

Sorry to cut your post. I wanted to quote this yesterday, but I forgot. Your post made me laugh, actually. Yes, please, drama... let the baby-making commence only after the drama is over. (But given this writer's mean streak, I'm not sure that wish will come true.)

Speaking of "queen material" though, I want to add one more criticism to the show. In my long post, I said I hate what they had done to HS's character. But they did even worse to YH's character.

I have been trying to ignore the anti-feminism streak MLSHR has. I told myself, "Well, it's a story of Goryeo era. Keep your feminist side locked up. There's no place here." But as the show moves along, I realize that the show's anti-feminism writing is not truly an indictment of Goryeo era alone; it's the indictment of the entertainment industry and us, the viewers --- how much mistreatment of female characters we all allow in the dramas we love. By "mistreatment", I don't mean it as making them suffer; my criticism is on how the shows fail to make them into true characters at all, and just seem to prefer making them into shells of characters and plot-devices that basically allow other plot-points to move along.

So, since MLSHR finale is days away, I need to do this......

(Are you all ready for another monster-sized post? No? Well, you're getting one anyway.) 

 

 

A feminist's rant on MLSHR

a.k.a A lament for Yeon-hwa & Hae Soo --- True victims of dramaland's love for male characters

 

I'm not gonna elaborate on HS's character here; I've done it so many times, I'm starting to sound like a broken record. (Expand the next 3 spoiler tags to read the excerpts from my previous juggernaut post.)

But essentially, this is what I feel the character could have become:

Spoiler

On 10/26/2016 at 2:39 PM, zi4r said:

I was hoping that WS's love would begin to heal her... that she would become trusting and loving very few people, yet doing so more fully to those few people; that she would become wisened and hardened by time, and yet still retaining a warm heart... one that she only allows WS (and maybe a few close friends) to see. In later episodes, I had hopes that she could become his strength, not just as a lover but as a partner. Because being a courtlady means having the eyes-and-ears in every nook and crevice of the palace. Can you imagine how much of an asset that would have been to WS (let's say, as Chae-ryung was to WWon)?

It's not that I wanted WS to use her; but I was hoping she would still play a bigger role than just a dumb girlfriend to WS. Because someone as burdened as WS needs a strong partner... and the character trajectory of Ep1-13 proves that HS could have become that! Just imagine..... HS managing to uncover some conspiracy in the palace, and helping WS protect Mu... how nice it could have been!

Then, when GJ becomes King, I was hoping she could remain his confidante --- yes, he would marry YH, but HS would remain to be his strength, his love, his core of existence..... until one day, he goes too far and she cannot bear to embrace the man he has become. Then, the heartbreak would come for both parties, then HS dies/disappears, then modern era...... THE END.

 

And how the drama has actually painted the character:

Spoiler

On 10/26/2016 at 2:39 PM, zi4r said:

Now that I've watched Ep18, I realize this is exactly how cruelly the writer wishes to paint this story. HS has never mattered much as a courtlady... and without those responsibilities, only as the King's lover, she matters even less now. Unlike YH or Queen Yoo or Woo-hee or even Chae-ryung, in the courtly game, she is utterly useless. Even if she could become a Concubine/Queen, she would still be just an accessory, the pretty girl on the King's arms. She has direct access to the King's ears, but the headstrong WS has never truly respected her enough when it comes to her opinions (Oh, he loves her and respects her feelings; but her thoughts and her advice? Not much.) and the full-efficiency-mode GJ respects it even less.

This makes for a very logical break in their relationship. There was no need for a real turning point. Even CR's punishment and death was not really a turning point, because the relationship between HS and GJ (unlike that of HS and WS) has never really worked. Since he stepped on the throne, she already has no place in his life, even though she undoubtedly still occupies almost the whole of his heart.

 

And why it was painted that way:

Spoiler

On 10/26/2016 at 2:39 PM, zi4r said:

Of course, there's still a chance that GJ will spiral totally out of control and become truly evil. But actually, it's no longer necessary. Now, he can just remain a King who is strict and swift in his dealings with his subjects --- one that is just and efficient, yet merciless against betrayal. (I suspect, that's who the real Gwangjong in history truly is.)

Why is truly-evil GJ not necessary anymore? Because the part about HS leaving him has nothing to do with him becoming evil. She is leaving him because even though she can forgive and understand him (and maybe even support the general direction of his decisions), she cannot stomach the reality of what is necessary to be King. And as I've said, she doesn't have a place in his life any longer, because she cannot fulfill the role of a cunning woman..... a worthy partner and right-hand woman to a monarch.

So now I understand why they butchered HS's character in Ep14-17. (At least, this is how I take it to be.) They did it to eliminate the need to make WS/GJ truly ruthless. In order to salvage WS/GJ's character, they had to weaken HS's character. It is so so sad to see it happen. But I guess, given how well the show handled the progression of both characters in Ep18, I am willing to roll with it, my feminist side be darned.

 

Summary: In order to make a logical break in HS and WS/GJ relationship and to avoid making GJ into more ruthless than necessary, HS's character is weakened and shackled and broken halfway through the series. That way, even though she is the woman for the headstrong & live-in-the-present Prince WS, she cannot be the woman for the logical & cunning King GJ. (I am glad that the drama makes GJ remain steadfast in his decision to marry HS, and thus, allowing HS to make a true sacrifice of persuading GJ to marry YH instead. But...) Basically, in a practical sense, both of them have no real choice in the matter. The minute GJ steps on the throne, the titanic of HS/WS has already sunk. Everything else is just emotional argument.

So in order to keep the male lead palatable to the general audience, they had to hobble the character with general trappings of a weak female lead: Her love for the man is her only reason for existence in that world; Her emotions overrule logic; The best qualities of her character (innocence, goodness, kindness) are also the biggest flaws in her character, a.k.a. she is "too nice" for that world. ( @littleloony calls that Ekta Kapoor Heroine, I believe )

And how we all love that character. Because she is nice. Because she's an innocent. Because she's not "evil". And most importantly, because WS loves her. Many of us can ignore (Well, I did try to ignore..... until I exploded and started writing these preachy long-winded posts) the flaws in her character because we only root for one thing -- her love for WS. And those flaws make her into a good damsel-in-distress and a good plot-device in torturing WS (Oh how delicious LJG is when he's being emotionally tortured!)... so why not, right?

 

Now, if I am upset by HS's character trajectory, I am absolutely livid about what they have done with YH!

For one, there's no trajectory to speak of. YH's character has never had any "growth"; it has stayed exactly the same way since the beginning of the show. In the writer's defense, there was no actual need for her character to grow... because other female characters are even weaker or less sympathetic or less developed than her! (I won't elaborate much on other female characters, but look inside the spoiler tag for my general complaints.)

Spoiler

Let me try to categorize them into Team-HS (for being weak) or Team-YH (for being "evil") or Team-blah (for being underdeveloped).

Queen Yoo (Team-YH): A nonsensical character. Much like YH, she is made plain evil... just because the show needs her to be. And they don't even give a dang enough to give us a proper explanation why she's this way. They could have made her a sympathetic character too. Yes, an abusive mother... but show us her pain, give us a valid excuse for why she's this way, give her some tragic background... Is that too much to ask? But noooooo. They need to give us "poor poor WS" and they need to make Taejo a bad-yet-redeemable character. So for those two male characters to survive our scrutiny, this lunatic of a character is born. What trash!

Queen Hb (Team-HS until very recent episodes): Painted her as a good and kind mother. But because of that, she cannot provide protection to her family. She is no match to Yoo in the game of politics. If we're being cruel and practical about it, we can put the blame for YH's and WW's predicaments on her. And then, she made a noble yet frankly idiotic decision to allow WW to marry HS (which would have weakened her family's already-weak position), and that forced YH to take the matters into her own hands. Not a bad character per se, but not an interesting character either.

Chae-ryung(Team-HS): Absolutely Team-HS. You know, I am really disappointed in the show's chosen reason for CR to commit treason. I would have been fine if they made her into just a slave girl who is powerless and has to do a master's bidding (because that's what slaves do!). Or if they want to give us a more compelling reason, maybe give her a little sister or something and threaten her with that kid's life... how difficult is that? Nooooooooo. They made her into this silly little girl, so in love with a man that she committed treason for him. WTH??? Yes, we saw a few glimpses of that doomed romance with WWon since the beginning of the show, but it was never really touched on...... until BAM! apparently, that inconsequential-looking romance brought about Mu's death??? Let's not kid ourselves: She is not as powerless as she seems or as she was in the beginning of the show. She now serves HS, and of course the King, and not WW. There's ample opportunities for her to stop that treacherous plot. So, we have to deal with the fact that she did this all out of "love"... and apparently, a one-sided love because WWon seems intent only to save his own skin. Another stupid female character.

Seon-deok (Team-blah): An undeveloped character that exists only to help us make sense of Eun's death. Really sad, because she is a capable character. And likable!! But we barely got to see her, except in association with Eun.

Woo-hee (Team-blah): Another undeveloped character that exists to make..... erm..... Baek-ah less lonely? She is like a universal remote we keep at home. Mostly collects dust in our drawer, but is bloody-useful for everything whenever we need it. Romance for WS's sidekick? Check! Assassin to kill King? Check! A tour-guide to save Goryeo's throne? Check! A spy for Yo? Check! Let's call her a "universal plot-device". But who she really is? I don't bloody know. What a mess.

 

Only two characters (kinda) lived up to my expectations, and they both got very few episodes and died tragically (Yes, that's the price of being a good female character in a drama).

Lady Oh: Despite the trappings of servitude at the palace and the limitations imposed by her love for the King, she steps up to protect people she loves. And so wise too! Given that she got very little screen-time, it's amazing how much we managed to connect with her. Miss you, Lady Oh.

Lady Hae: Though she is also another character that seems to let her love for a man dictate her life, at least she did it in the most practical and noble way possible. By marrying WW, she provided security and power to him. Even knowing that she would never have his heart, she did all the good for him and their family... and from the few episodes we get to see her, she seemed to have built a full life for herself even in this loveless marriage. Kudos to her!

But the lack of trajectory of YH character is the least of my criticism. I hate how the drama opted out of giving HS a true romantic rival. It's as if they sacrificed HS's character to make WS great, and then made YH's character absolutely unpalatable to still keep the weakened HS's character unrivaled in our (and WS's) attention. Here's what I mean.....

Yeon-hwa could have been made a sympathetic character. Actually, that would have been more realistic. Think about it. Even though she is really a Goryeo woman (unlike HS/Ha-jin who is from the future), her core is actually a 21st-century woman through&through --- educated, ambitious, unrelenting in the pursuit of her goals, unwilling to be cowed or shackled by the patriarchal norms of that time, and of course, very b****y (Come on, admit it, we all are! ). Her motivations are actually the kind that we, the viewers, can relate to. Her fears of losing her position in the palace are very valid; just as WS hated being sent away as a hostage, YH does too. She never gives up, no matter who tries to bring her to heel. Her cunning moves should be admired by us. Of course, I'm not saying we support murder and treachery... but we seem to be able to forgive WS for those crimes (murder of the monks, starting a coup, taking the throne from Yo based on a lie), so why not YH?

The fact of the matter is..... Our general hatred towards YH has nothing to do with what she has really done. It has everything to do with: 1) how the show portrays her actions and motivations, and 2) our pre-existing knowledge from history that she would marry WS.

Remember how we were introduced to the first real b****iness from YH? The Chae-ryung caning scene.

We rooted for CR, who sneaked into a prince's room and could not give an explanation why. We rooted for HS, who made CR do that stupid task and would not give an explanation why. We applauded how HS stood up to YH and protected CR, even though if we truly think about it, HS was on the wrong and she had no authority to be overriding YH's orders. Then we rooted for WS for stepping in, even though he also overstepped his bounds as a guest.

We were pissed at WW for not stepping in faster, even though that's the right move; the affairs of the household staff (especially the female ones) fall under the responsibility and authority of the lady of the house. Overriding YH's authority in front of guests and other servants should not be done lightly, because such an incident would bring disorder in the household.

Lastly, but most importantly, we hated YH for her actions... even though what she was doing is practically her job as the lady of the household. Do we like that a servant/slave is caned? No. But that's the indictment of the times, not of YH. It was punishment, not abuse. So why were we so willing to jump on the hate wagon?

For one, we can't stand her simply because it's YH, WS's future wife. This is where my criticism of the show comes in. The script could have been really artfully done if they painted YH character a whole lot more sympathetic, not "evil". Because that would have meant the viewers would've had to go through a moral dilemma: Do we like YH even though she's "the other woman"? or Hate YH even though she's a virtuous / capable / sympathetic character? But no! The show seems to worry that HS's character would not be able to stand against YH's character in the viewers' eyes if they make YH to be any less horrible.

So now, back to the scene:

Spoiler

Rather than making it just a punishment that HS (given her innocent & foolhardy streak) tries to interfere, they make YH's face show how much she relishes doing the punishing. There comes the b****face and the sickly sweet smile. (Look inside spoiler tag above for the b****face)

Then when WS steps in, YH has to go through a fit of jealousy. There comes another b****face, glaring eyes, almost stomping feet. Everything we might hate in "other woman" character, they have to put in. And voila! We're all on HS's side..... and YH is the ultimate enemy.

And it goes downhill from there.

• YH's attempt to marry herself back into the royal family? Rather than highlighting her very valid fears, they make her seem desperate, wanton and cheap. I could hardly stomach the scenes because of how the script is demeaning the future queen.
• YH's attempt to keep her family in power? Rather than highlighting the precarious position they're in, they make her seem power-hungry.
• The poisoning plot? Yes, it's treason, but did she really have a choice? WW was being irresponsible. He seemed to have thrown away all of his duties as the man of the household. And YH has to suffer for it, just because she's a woman and cannot dictate her own destiny. But we were made to focus on (again) poor-poor WS and poor-poor HS and a-bit-less-poor-poor WW, that it was just easier for us to hate YH. So hate her we did!
• I can go on and on... but let me skip right to the meat: The masked seduction scene after marriage to GJ; it ranks very high in my list of the most cringe-worthy scenes of all times.

Can you demean a character any more than that? We were given no opportunity to consider why she had to do this. If she doesn't provide GJ with heir/issue, do you think the court and people of Goryeo would blame GJ? It's always the woman's fault if she can't provide an heir! So she must persuade GJ anyway she can. But all this logic takes secondary to "Please get on board YH-hate train" plot-devices in this drama.

 

I understand that the social conventions of the era itself dictate that women be kept weak. Women of high birth generally dealt only with inconsequential (and mostly petty) affairs of household. If they interfered with the "man's affairs" in court, it was always met with harsh criticism. The best that women of court can hope is to become the power behind their men. So as a rule, strong women that could not hide their power behind their charms were seen as evil.

But even allowing that, this drama went out of its way to make YH unpalatable. There is overt smearing of the character every step of the way. And we the audience happily went along with it, because it fits our narrative.

I said, YH is a worthy queen. But even when I made that statement, I could only give her one credit: Her cunning would make her a great partner to a monarch, especially in the time of turmoil that GJ came into power. If the script was a bit more daring and if it was a bit more respectful in painting YH's character, we all could have accepted (and even embraced) her becoming Queen. That would not have derailed the plot: We would still have felt WS/GJ's & HS's heartbreak, and we would have found solace in the fact that GJ would never love YH.

But now, we are left dealing with the b****face becoming Queen and making babies with our dear WS. Thanks, drama. 

 

 

All in all, there are just too many should-ve's, could-ve's, would-ve's in this drama that, by this point, I don't even have the energy to be bothered much by its portrayal of YH anymore. I am just so happy that HS character seems to have regained her brain in Ep18. Right now, I only hope for a few things in the next 2 episodes:

• Make WW and YH pay for their crimes in a satisfying fashion. (Well, they've made YH a horrible character; so now, they can't not give us some nice YH-frying scenes! Good luck, show.)
• Don't make GJ spiral out of control. (Because there's no need now. As I've said, HS's character doesn't have a place by his side anymore anyway, so there's no need for him to become ruthless enough for her to leave. Come on, show, you have sacrificed two female characters to make us root for him. Don't butcher his character too!)
• Give us a sizable screen-time in modern era.

 

I am quite optimistic though. Since Ep18 clean-up was surprisingly well-done, the show should manage to keep itself steady for the next 2 episodes.

DON'T YOU DARE DISAPPOINT ME! 

Edited October 28, 2016 by zi4r
Grammar & Formatting for easier read & Quality of pics

[violet90]

about So react to WW love with Su.. i think i understand why LJG describe his character as possessive lover... his character never know love or even learn how to love since he was kid and he obsess with making his mother proud of him even if its mean killing people.. even till his mom dies he still obsess with wanting her to accept and acknowledge him.. there is no way Su can fix this one because in So nature to possess everyone that he loves.. and his mom did't even love him back.. 

Su?? his first and last women that he loved.. the first one that he truly cares since he was born and she did love him back.. she taking care and be by his side.. we already being warn about his possessive toward Su since the beginning.. and the joke he tell that maybe he will kill the person that she loves is not a joke.. it may be joke at that time but now she belong to him its a reality.. So can't and won't accept that WW get Su first and they used to love.. the side of him that possessive of person will emerge and he will rage and be mad cause he loss to WW.. and because of this he will said the thing that he will regret later on...

its not about Su used to have a lover... its just because he loss to WW who is his sworn enemy.... anger , jealousy and ego get hold of him and he will lash out to Su...

[Sobayaki]

Help, can someone please help me find a song? It's an instrumental song played in episode 18 after...

CR was beaten and HS fainted and she dreams of flashbacks.

I've been looking through the recently released OST but I can't seem to find it. Is it even on there?
Thanks for anyone who can help me confirm!

[missdharma]

Dont forget to vote Lee Joon Gi at Asia Artist Award

Still on 4th 12,38%, we can beat Song jong ki with 14,85%. Uri Wang eun (Baekhyun) still no.1 

GET THE APP and VOTE !! 

 

 

[violet90]

when a fan asked IU which prince she loved the most.. her answer is So and Jung because their love does't changed till the end.. 

so i'm going to hold to that and pray that So will cool down and start thinking rationally after Su is gone and HOPEFULLY can be with her when she dying.. cause i think i see a slim chance of that if WW repent and set thing straight about Su and YH...

but even that does't happen for me what IU trying to said So loves will always be there even if him lashing out or mad with her.. its just he will realize that a little too late if he did't get to see her for the last time..

[syeramy]

3 hours ago, Akiddo said:

Ep 19 - 20: Farewell to my eternal love

Ep 17-18 sped up the sequence of events in the original novel and C-BBJX. We have 2 more episodes to bring this epic love story to a close.

  Reveal hidden contents

In BBJX, the eagle incident happened during Kangxi's reign. That incident ended 8th Prince's lifelong struggle to be the crown prince/emperor. The attention shifted to 14th prince to take over the throne as he became powerful as a grand general and was the favoured sonwith strong family backing from his maternal side. When 4th prince took over the throne by force - the 8th prince gang was up in arms to fight but were helpless against a very prepared 4th Prince who had Longkodo and Nian Gengyao. 14th prince was faraway from the palace in a battle. Ruoxi was also the first to kneel and greet 4th prince as emperor at the death bed of Kangxi. RX's guilt was extremely deep rooted as Kangxi was a father like figure to her and she knew 4th Prince didn't get the throne through an honourable way. But she knew history was at stake and went along with it. 

Hence the 8th Prince punishment to kneel in front of a temple over some incident. Ruoxi prayed on her kneels, followed by standing for the whole night in her room to protest against the punishment. He was eventually released from his punishment but this was the beginning of the rift between 4th Prince and Ruoxi, 13th prince warned Ruoxi to let go of all matters related to 8th Prince to keep him safe but she couldn't due to her compassion to all the princes, not just because of her past relationship with 8th. Things just spiralled downwards from there. 8th Prince's story arch was really sad and I for one felt that 4th prince went overboard by getting him to divorce his wife - causing her to commit suicide. The misunderstanding between RX and 4th prince went deeper and deeper to the point where they had to part. 

 

In the ep 19 preview, the sequence of events is jumbled in my opinion. My version for Ep 19-20 is as follows. Parts of Baek Ah and Woo Hee are not included as my concern is only So-Soo. Points 11-25 could be vastly different from the drama. I just need to get these thoughts out of my system. 

1. GJ plots to get rid of Wook - with the help of YH and Won. 

2. Wook is condemned to death for attempted treason. 

3. Soo steps in to beg for Wook's life - possible that Wook's mother asked her for help and tells her the sequence of Wook's progression into the dark side. Given her personality, she risks her life to help Wook one last time - out of guilt, out of her loyalty to her late cousin, out of whatever residual feeling she has left for 8th. She succeeds in getting his life saved but causes a permanent rift in her relationship with So. 

4. Wook reflects on the sequence of events and figures out that his sister has betrayed him for GJ. By then, Jung will have gotten wind of Soo's decision to leave with him. 

5. So gets the late King's edict to betroth Soo to Jung. He refuses to acknowledge the edict. Jung shows the hairpin as proof of Soo's decision. The sight of his token of love to Soo hurts GJ deeply. Baek Ah realises the significance of Soo's request and is devastated. 

6. Wook loses all hope in his life and family. He confronts GJ for a final show down - tells him the truth about the poisoning incident, YH's involvement and why he couldn't save Soo. He pulls everyone into the blackhole with him - if he has to suffer, GJ and YH will have to suffer along. Soo becomes the collateral damage in this confrontation.

7. GJ is devastated by Wook's confession and links her determination to save Wook as a sign of her love for Wook. He confronts Soo and she admits to her past relationship with Wook. GJ tells her that he doesn't want to see her anymore and she has the permission to leave the palace. 

8. Soo leaves the palace and Songgak for good. Before she steps out of the gilded cage, she looks back with tears in her eyes and memories of the past flashing before her. Soo knows she will never see the palace again. 

9. GJ looks from afar with tears streaming down his face. Memories of happier times flashing before him. WS is inconsolable but GJ soldiers on. He fulfils his promise to YH to give her an heir. 

10. Time skip. Soo starts life anew with Jung in exile. A celebration of marriage is prohibited between them but Jung is happy to have Soo by his side and tries his best to make her happy. Soo misses So deeply and continues her writing every day. 

11. GJ continues to consolidate his empire. He has spies in Jung's household. Jung is aware of it. GJ gets reports on Soo and Jung regularly. 

12. Jung creates an illusion of intimacy between him and Soo for the spies to report back to GJ, mainly to rile GJ. GJ is devastated that Soo has finally moved on from him and orders that reports on Jung's household must not be presented to him from here on. 

13. In the mean time, Soo's health continues to deteriorate. She knows her end is near. Asks Jung to help her to deliver a letter to GJ. She hopes to see him one last time. 

14. Jung accedes her request. Notices her handwriting is too similar to GJ's. He puts her letter in another envelope with his handwriting on the envelope. 

15. Letter reaches GJ. GJ doesn't read it. 

16. Soo dolls herself up the best that she can. Deteriorates rapidly.

17. GJ dreams of Soo. His right arm where he was once wounded aches terribly. 

18. Soo gives up hope that So will come to her. She asks Jung to cremate her right away after she dies and throw her ashes into the ocean/lake on a windy day. She wants to forget all of them. She asks him to let go of the past and live on fruitfully. Soo doesn't leave any last words for her beloved. She dies in Jung's arms. Soo finally leaves Goryeo behind. We see a solar eclipse transporting Soo back to modern time the moment she passes on. 

19. Jimong sees the solar eclipse and sighs for the loss of his kindred spirit Soo. He knows she is gone. 

20. Words finally reach GJ and Baek Ah that Soo has passed away. He is shocked beyond words. He scrambles for the unread letter. He finds it and opens it with trembling hands. He sees Soo's handwriting for the first time. Reads the letter while the audience weeps with him. All inconsolable. Ambulance and medics should be on standby at LJG's fan meeting. 

21. GJ and Baek Ah arrive at Jung's residence. Fight ensues. Baek Ah stops them, asks them to let Soo leave in peace after being sandwiched between all the brothers for the past 10 years. 

22. So enters Soo's room to find her belongings - the hairpin, the arrow, stacks of her writing...So breaks down once again. He knows she left with him etched in her heart. There was no room for anyone else. He was her eternal love, just like she is to him. She is completely his person, always and forever. Need more back up on ambulance and medics - many are suffering from excessive sobbing and heart aches.  

23. So takes her ashes back to Songgak. Jimong tries to explain to GJ about Soo/Ha Jin - offends GJ and is banished. So and Baek Ah throws her ashes into the ocean or Dongji lake as per her wishes. GJ mulls on Soo's odd ways and concludes that he will find her one way or the other. 

24. GJ lives for another 20+ years, misses Soo everyday. GJ tries to leave clues for the future Soo/Ha Jin. Dies on a solar eclipse in 975. 

25. Time skip 1000 years to modern day Seoul. Your guess is as good as mine. Let's hope for a good ending with all the loose ends tied up nicely. 

Will we all be alright on Tuesday night? I am going to ask my hubby and kids to stay out of my way from 9pm. 

Your thoughts give me chills. 

Let's hoping for the best. 

Eclipses! Gather on! Tuesday night!