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[Drama 2018] Ms. Ma, Nemesis 미스 마, 복수의 여신

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2 hours ago, celebrianna said:

@gutibear, thanks for the welcome. ^_^ The books are always better to me although I’m fond of David Suchet’s Poirot and Geraldine McEwan’s Miss Marple. To me both of these actors personify their book counterparts the best. 

 

Please share spoilers afterwards. I would really like to know if the detectives bought that nonesense about Ms. Ma being somebody else. I thought it was pretty silly when the younger woman walked up to her and tried to pretend she was her aunt. I don’t see how that can realistically work.

Ha!  Maybe they will. Sometimes the local police are pretty incredulous in Ms Marple's series. But Christi is too tactful to make fools of them, and usually redeems them in some way.

 

I don't find similarities in the plot itself to Ms Marple. The plot  is more like the K-drama Return. A woman plots for years to get revenge for the cruel murder of her daughter.  But that is more in the Korean revenge drama motif  then "Nemesis" which is a kind of an agent of divine karma.  In the tv show based on Nemesis - a wealthy man names Ms Marple "Nemesis " in his will.  I think there are subtle similarities to Ms Marple  (discussed earlier on this thread).  The village, Ms Ma sees into human nature as just mentioned.   I think the sudden appearance of the faux niece  kind of reminds me of all of Ms Marple's numerous nieces, nephews and godchildren who invariably turn up.  Christi often has characters take on false identities, so in the case the "niece" is a twofer.

Agatha Christi said she envisioned Ms Marple like Joan Hickson, quiet and understated. McEWan's marple was more comical, I thought.

 

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, maddymappo said:

I don't find similarities in the plot itself to Ms Marple. The plot  is more like the K-drama Return.

agree. there's not much similarities between Miss Ma and the original Nemesis. The writer so far as I can see, just using the nickname Nemesis given by Mr. Rafiel to Miss Marple.

There's a dead daughter both in the Kdrama and the book. But in the book, the daughter was killed by her adopted mother out of love. Her body was buried in a greenhouse and the body whose face was disfigured was not the daughter, but another victim also killed by the adopted mother. 

 

My theory so far, Miss Ma's real daughter is still alive. The husband must have been behind all this. The case is too personal to point our finger to strangers. I remember the case happened when Miss Ma and her husband's marriage was in a crisis. And so the motive could be to prevent your wife taking your daughter away from you. If there's an other woman, the motive could be doubled. 

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On 10/13/2018 at 9:52 AM, gutibear said:

About spoiler...I don't think I am suitable to give any spoiler, since I don't understand Korean. There's not so many the detective scenes tonight..but one of Miss Ma neighbor is killed..so sad becoz I thought she will be one of Miss Ma's friends.

I had a feeling it was that neighbor whom I thought would be a good friend to Ms. Ma. I’m sorry she died. I liked her especially because she normally told Ms. Ma what she thought to her face. I remember the story this is based on because of the grown daughter who was neglected but she later got married to the character whose point of view the story was told from. Heh. I remember Miss Marple teased him a little about his crush on the daughter who used to always come to the place where his sister and him were staying until he recuperated from his injury.

 

Anyway, at least Ms. Ma has an assistant in the younger woman because at least they can bounce ideas off each other. 

 

@tulip06, no it’s really not her niece but she’s now somewhat reluctantly assisting Ms. Ma with solving the neighborhood murders.

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I am enjoying the village scenes, which are more like a Miss Marple story. Not so much the screaming and crying parts. But I really want to know who that woman was at the seaside and what happened. Since Ms Ma sees hallucinations, who knows?

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I enjoy the village scenes too. This show also reminds me of the British crime show Midsomer Murders where the murders occur in small villages.

 

 I’m finally finished watching this weekend’s episodes and I must say Ms. Ma being on the outs with the police presents a hindrance to solving the crimes. Miss Marple at least always had a chance to interact with the police when the time was right because she had one or two individuals on the police force that respected her ability to solve crimes in her own unique way and they would pull strings to get reluctant police inspectors to take her seriously. 

 

Anyway, from the preview it almost looks like they will have a murder at a party and everyone present will be a suspect? I’m not entirely sure since previews happen so quickly but that type of case should be interesting.

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10 hours ago, celebrianna said:

I enjoy the village scenes too. This show also reminds me of the British crime show Midsomer Murders where the murders occur in small villages.

HA!! I watched MM too...Love love the charismatic Inspector Barnaby and all his clueless assistants .. because of MM and Agatha, I only read British crime fiction books now. I would love to visit English country one day.

 

It looks like every week we're gonna face with one case to be solved (by Miss Ma) and also, we're gonna one step closer to the truth about what happened 9 years ago.

 

Btw, do you notice the old man living with Ko Mal? Now, it reminds me of 'A Caribbean Mystery' where Miss Marple first met Mr Rafiel. Well, that old man is Miss Ma's version of Mr Rafiel. He is ill, invalid, rich, and powerful just like the original Mr Rafiel who is not really a good person. And Ko Mal is this drama version of Mr Rafiel's nurse/masseur Jackson. He is strong, quiet, and mysterious.
 

Hmm, murder at a party..I wonder which Miss Marple's book does that remind us? The Mirror Crack'd from Side to Side?

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@gutibear, oh yes I remember the Caribbean mystery with Mr. Rafael and the masseur. I think they were instrumental in the end in helping Miss Marple trap the criminal. I remember her cottage was also close to theirs. So the rich romantic retired gangster is supposed to be Mr. Rafael? I think the original made his money in investments or speculation. I see the similarities though. 

 

Amusingly, somehow the anonymous letters reminded me of a plot in Midsomer Murders when a mother and son were blackmailing many people in the village because they had a telescope in their attic so they saw a lot of secret things that occurred in the village and they used the various pieces of information to blackmail people and get rich. Of course they ended up seeing a murder and foolishly and greedily blackmailed the murderer and therefore ended up dead near the end of the episode.

 

 I like that Ms Ma will have a different case each weekend. I almost thought the criminal would get away with the crime this weekend but thankfully it didn’t happen. Regarding that prosecutor that helped to put Ms. Ma in prison, I wonder if there’s more to her resistance to the truth other than the repercussions of putting an innocent woman behind bars. I still find it weird that policemen aren’t allowed to do their job freely but take orders from prosecutors. Very weird.

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1 hour ago, celebrianna said:

I still find it weird that policemen aren’t allowed to do their job freely but take orders from prosecutors.

Maybe because she has high rank.

 

@telzey I am wondering bout it too. I don't think our heroine killed her though. Miss Ma is not a killer.

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This group of murders and poison pen letters have some similarity to The Moving Finger. If the next one is at a party it could also be "A Murder is Announced", or as suggested by  @gutibear "The Mirror Cracked" both of them have murders at a gathering.

@gutibear said

Quote

My theory so far, Miss Ma's real daughter is still alive. The husband must have been behind all this. The case is too personal to point our finger to strangers. I remember the case happened when Miss Ma and her husband's marriage was in a crisis. And so the motive could be to prevent your wife taking your daughter away from you. If there's an other woman, the motive could be doubled. 

I think that is a good theory.  That would fit with Nemesis at least as far as there being two girls. But in Nemesis they both were killed by the maniac god mother.  

 

Ms "Ma"  is suffering so much, I would love her daughter to be alive. Do you think she could be the faux niece?   

 

I am also wondering about what she did to the real writer Ms Ma. I can't believe she would kill her. I can't understand how she could threaten a perfect stranger like that?  That is where I thought of Return because in her vengeance the mother became so cruel.  But in this story it is out of character completely. She has such a soft heart.   Confused.

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@maddymappo and the killer in both books are the host.. 

 

Hmm, the faux niece is too old to be her daughter. I remember she said that she was also looking for the killer. My guess, there are another victim and she was that victim's relative. 

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4 hours ago, gutibear said:

@maddymappo and the killer in both books are the host.. 

 

Hmm, the faux niece is too old to be her daughter. I remember she said that she was also looking for the killer. My guess, there are another victim and she was that victim's relative. 

The faux niece said she’s 28 years old when she flirted with the young police officer so she’s too old to be her daughter indeed. Ms. Ma was in prison for 9 years. Her daughter would have to had been at least 18 years old when she died to fit faux niece’s age. I assume a year in between for her trial and verdict.

 

About prosecutors directing police, I remember another Korean crime show I watched addressed this issue. In that show the police was trying to get support for a law they wanted pass to make the police independent from prosecutors. Most of their crime shows that I watched show prosecutors have the power over police which I find very weird. However, I suppose every country have their own way of doing things.

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this thread feels like our kind of 'Tuesday Night Club' .. but since Miss Ma is aired on Saturday, maybe we should change it to Saturday Night Club ^_^

I am so happy I joined this thread and meet others who share the same passion with Agatha's books..:wub:

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@gutibear, one of my coworkers is a huge crime addict like I am so we always talk about crime shows. I admit she mostly watch shows instead of reading books but it’s so hilarious how we employ the things we learn in crime shows in our lives. During winter because the days are shorter and darker we’re always talking about how to be aware of our surroundings and what we can use as weapons to defend ourselves. :lol: For instance, she never parks on the upper levels of her daily parking lot. When I walk on dark streets alone I cross the street when I see a stranger on the same side as me. I mean, we’re very sensitive about these sorts of things. Criminal Minds put a lot of ideas in our heads.

 

 It occurred to me that the grave way Poirot and Miss Marple look at muderers is so befitting. Take Ms. Park’s husband. How can he kill her so coldbloodedly? How many years were they married? It also must have been a very painful death for her. How could he do such a thing? 

 

Why do you guys think Ms. Ma’s daughter isn’t dead? 

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oh my God @celebrianna ... Criminal Minds is my favorite US tv shows.. Never missed any of its episode!! And it's true that by watching this crime fiction can make us more careful. I always check my reflection in the mirror in the changing room.. you know, to make sure that it is a real mirror.. 

 

It's so lucky of you to have someone to talk with about crime, even if it's only fiction. Here, reading is not a popular activity. Most of my co-worker prefer watching K-drama over reading books. I do watch K-drama, one or two at a time. But reading is still my fav thing to spend my time.

 

26 minutes ago, celebrianna said:

Why do you guys think Ms. Ma’s daughter isn’t dead? 

I am just guessing. The victim's face was disfigured and she was wearing school uniform with Miss Ma's daughter name on it when she was found. So we all assumed that she was Miss Ma's daughter. I think the police didn't even bother to conduct DNA test. But remember in Nemesis, the victim whose face was disfigured was not Verity Hunt, but another victim (Nora Board ~ thanks Wiki). That's why I guess, Miss Ma's daughter is alive..or even if she's dead, her body is yet to be found.

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2 hours ago, gutibear said:

I am just guessing. The victim's face was disfigured and she was wearing school uniform with Miss Ma's daughter name on it when she was found. So we all assumed that she was Miss Ma's daughter. I think the police didn't even bother to conduct DNA test. But remember in Nemesis, the victim whose face was disfigured was not Verity Hunt, but another victim (Nora Board ~ thanks Wiki). That's why I guess, Miss Ma's daughter is alive..or even if she's dead, her body is yet to be found.

@gutibear, at least you have us online with you to talk crime stories. 

 

That makes sense since the show’s name is Nemesis. It’s so weird though that the husband would go that far to have his daughter with him. It’s also weird to my CSI mind that they would not do a thorough check of the body to identify the dead child. I can’t understand crime shows that does this in today’s world. Even if there is a suspect and a believed method of death, the US crime shows I watch always make a point of confirming the details and identity.

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