[Mainland Chinese Web Drama 2020] Three Lives Three Worlds The Pillow Book 三生三世枕上书

[UnluckyWhiteCat]

18 hours ago, Ninky said:

Actually dh isn’t on 13th. The author wrote 一十三天， which means one thirteen so it could be possibly 113 floor!

 

Can I ask, are you certain on this? I was actually wondering about this too, and when you brought it up, I went and asked everyone I know who is fluent in Chinese, and the consensus is that it's just 13, and that the extra 1 just makes it sound "nicer" because it's how you say / write it when you have a bigger number such as 百 or 万 in front. Also, I went through the original Chinese text, and found a few instances where it was only 十三天 written, without the extra 一, which would tell me that it just means 13. 

[Ninky]

1 hour ago, UnluckyWhiteCat said:

 

Can I ask, are you certain on this? I was actually wondering about this too, and when you brought it up, I went and asked everyone I know who is fluent in Chinese, and the consensus is that it's just 13, and that the extra 1 just makes it sound "nicer" because it's how you say / write it when you have a bigger number such as 百 or 万 in front. Also, I went through the original Chinese text, and found a few instances where it was only 十三天 written, without the extra 一, which would tell me that it just means 13. 

the physical and e book  did write as 一十三天 and i have seen it several times written that way. So I find it odd. Which is why I translated it as it is - one thirteenth floor and left it as is.

 

in my opinion, this floor could be a  split floor as in level 1 of level 13. Anything is possible in this fantasy world.

 

And also it appears that Nine Heavens itself is a staggering massive structure that has many floors that are graduating upwards to the main 殿 at the very top. This is a 风水 type set up. So anything is possible.

 

And given Dong Hua’s status, it won’ t be a surprise that level 13 has a split off portion that is elevated more and that is possibly where 太晨宫 is located from a realistic pov.

 

I suspect it is more than just nicer sounding, otherwise why wasn’t the 三十六天 called in the same fashion. 
 

I am toying with the idea of simply asking Tang Qi directly on this and a few other things.

[UnluckyWhiteCat]

46 minutes ago, Ninky said:

the physical and e book  did write as 一十三天 and i have seen it several times written that way. So I find it odd. Which is why I translated it as it is - one thirteenth floor and left it as is.

 

And the instances where it was only 十三天 without the 一? Most of them were written as 一十三天 but there were still a few without the 一. To be clear, I was looking in Pillow Book. 

 

46 minutes ago, Ninky said:

in my opinion, this floor could be a  split floor as in level 1 of level 13. Anything is possible in this fantasy world.

 

And also it appears that Nine Heavens itself is a staggering massive structure that has many floors that are graduating upwards to the main 殿 at the very top. This is a 风水 type set up. So anything is possible.

 

And given Dong Hua’s status, it won’ t be a surprise that level 13 has a split off portion that is elevated more and that is possibly where 太晨宫 is located from a realistic pov.

 

I do accept that it could be a sub-layer, but if she continued on writing it in this way, with 一十三天 meaning 'level one of level thirteen of Heaven / first level of the 13th Heaven,' she would then be writing 'level two of level thirteen of Heaven' as 二十三天 which would translate to 23rd Heaven, and so on and so forth with 三十三天 meaning ’33rd Heaven,' etc. That would make it incredibly confusing what she is referring to. 

 

46 minutes ago, Ninky said:

I suspect it is more than just nicer sounding, otherwise why wasn’t the 三十六天 called in the same fashion.

 

In Chinese we write 113 as 一百一十三, 1,013 as 一千一十三, etc. So the consensus was that she wrote it this way as a reflection of the way you write it with the larger numbers, with the 一 always preceding the 十三 even though it is different from the way we conventionally write 13. So 36 already has the 三 in front, but 13 doesn't have the 一. 

 

46 minutes ago, Ninky said:

I am toying with the idea of simply asking Tang Qi directly on this and a few other things.

 

If you can please do - that would clear a lot of things up. 

 

Also, the thing you said about how it could mean 113? Please explain?

[Ninky]

26 minutes ago, UnluckyWhiteCat said:

 

And the instances where it was only 十三天 without the 一? Most of them were written as 一十三天 but there were still a few without the 一. To be clear, I was looking in Pillow Book. 

 

 

I do accept that it could be a sub-layer, but if she continued on writing it in this way, with 一十三天 meaning 'level one of level thirteen of Heaven / first level of the 13th Heaven,' she would then be writing 'level two of level thirteen of Heaven' as 二十三天 which would translate to 23rd Heaven, and so on and so forth with 三十三天 meaning ’33rd Heaven,' etc. That would make it incredibly confusing what she is referring to. 

 

 

In Chinese we write 113 as 一百一十三, 1,013 as 一千一十三, etc. So the consensus was that she wrote it this way as a reflection of the way you write it with the larger numbers, with the 一 always preceding the 十三 even though it is different from the way we conventionally write 13. So 36 already has the 三 in front, but 13 doesn't have the 一. 

 

 

If you can please do - that would clear a lot of things up. 

 

Also, the thing you said about how it could mean 113? Please explain?

My close mainland chinese friend told me about it potentially being a sub level coz that’s how some split level housing is addressed for the postman.

 

But she also said 一十三 itself could also mean one hundred and thirteenth. Especially if its referring to a high rise plaza or some such structures. Chinese is a very contextual language so sometimes decoding it has to be done in alignment with the context as well.

 

However, I did not translate as 113 floor because according to feng shui studies, in such Feng shui heavy places like Nine Heavens, the likelihood that its a split level from 13 itself is more plausible as the Chinese love to construct platforms and elevations especially if it is to denote status and ranking of.a person as well as abide by Feng Shui principles.

 

So I did glean my conclusion from my research as well. That’s why sometimes my translations require some time so I can verify things as I translate to make sure it is as close as what the author meant when she wrote it.

 

When I translate I have many tabs and windows open with dictionaries, ancient definitions and such on my chrome lol. 

[UnluckyWhiteCat]

16 minutes ago, Ninky said:

My close mainland chinese friend told me about it potentially being a sub level coz that’s how some split level housing is addressed for the postman.

 

But she also said 一十三 itself could also mean one hundred and thirteenth. Especially if its referring to a high rise plaza or some such structures. Chinese is a very contextual language so sometimes decoding it has to be done in alignment with the context as well.

 

However, I did not translate as 113 floor because according to feng shui studies, in such Feng shui heavy places like Nine Heavens, the likelihood that its a split level from 13 itself is more plausible as the Chinese love to construct platforms and elevations especially if it is to denote status and ranking of.a person as well as abide by Feng Shui principles.

 

Accepted, I also doubt it's 113, but because of something else Tangqi wrote about the difficulty of the situation between FJ and DH: 

 

那些少年郎君和妙龄女子就算一个高居三十六天、一个幽居十八层冥府

 

Hamster: "Even if they had lived skies apart, one on the 36th level of Heaven and the other on the 18th level of Hell..." (PB1 pg. 162)

 

If we take that to mean that those are the two extremes of Tangqi's universe, then the 36th Heaven is the highest level, and Tangqi, as far as I know, has not mentioned any higher level. 

 

What about this? 

 

41 minutes ago, UnluckyWhiteCat said:

And the instances where it was only 十三天 without the 一? Most of them were written as 一十三天 but there were still a few without the 一. To be clear, I was looking in Pillow Book. 

 

Unless it was a typo and she omitted it accidentally? It did crop up a few times though. Otherwise I could take 十三天 as referring to the entirety of the 13th Heaven while 一十三天 would refer to the First Level of the 13th Heaven, but that issue with the subsequent levels that I mentioned earlier would still apply, if she continued with 二十三天 to mean Second Level of the 13th Heaven because it would easily be seen as 23rd Heaven. 

 

24 minutes ago, Ninky said:

When I translate I have many tabs and windows open with dictionaries, ancient definitions and such on my chrome lol. 

 

Sameeee LOL. I've had like 10-15 tabs open all at the same time before. 

[Pesca]

3 hours ago, Ninky said:

I am toying with the idea of simply asking Tang Qi directly on this and a few other things.

Interesting where DH actually lives. I don't understand any of what you discussed but appreciate if you have a way to ask TQ. Please could you also ask her to give JH the punishment from hell as well.  Thank you. 

 

I read over PB p162. A question I would like to ask but kept forgotten. How did FJ get her fur back from Nie Chuyin? How long was she in fox form, presumably not 3 years?

[Romulan]

22 minutes ago, Pesca said:

Interesting where DH actually lives. I don't understand any of what you discussed but appreciate if you have a way to ask TQ. Please could you also ask her to give JH the punishment from hell as well.  Thank you. 

 

I read over PB p162. A question I would like to ask but kept forgotten. How did FJ get her fur back from Nie Chuyin? How long was she in fox form, presumably not 3 years?

At least in the drama,  Si Ming gets help from Zhe Lan, and Cheng Yi who go and take it back from Nie Chuyin and it was under 3 yrs though the full time isnt mentioned in the drama.

[Ninky]

4 hours ago, UnluckyWhiteCat said:

 

Accepted, I also doubt it's 113, but because of something else Tangqi wrote about the difficulty of the situation between FJ and DH: 

 

那些少年郎君和妙龄女子就算一个高居三十六天、一个幽居十八层冥府

 

Hamster: "Even if they had lived skies apart, one on the 36th level of Heaven and the other on the 18th level of Hell..." (PB1 pg. 162)

 

If we take that to mean that those are the two extremes of Tangqi's universe, then the 36th Heaven is the highest level, and Tangqi, as far as I know, has not mentioned any higher level. 

 

What about this? 

 

 

Unless it was a typo and she omitted it accidentally? It did crop up a few times though. Otherwise I could take 十三天 as referring to the entirety of the 13th Heaven while 一十三天 would refer to the First Level of the 13th Heaven, but that issue with the subsequent levels that I mentioned earlier would still apply, if she continued with 二十三天 to mean Second Level of the 13th Heaven because it would easily be seen as 23rd Heaven. 

 

 

Sameeee LOL. I've had like 10-15 tabs open all at the same time before. 

For all you know it may be a typo, who knows. Many novels have inconsistencies. The single most difficult thing about Chinese is its a contextual language. 
 

And the fact that thirty six is referred to as the highest level also shows Feng Shui involvement. Nine Heavens, as its name implies, is most likely arranged in sets of nine, in a certain format. Chinese look at 3 and 9 as auspicious. 

 

@UnluckyWhiteCatfound this which you may find interesting, and given that Tang Qi is a staunch buddhist, i am not all surprised by this borrowed concept which she then adapts into her scene settings in the 3L3W universe. It’s like a combo of buddhist and Feng shui geomancy combined.

 

Q: 桃花里面不是九重天吗？怎么在枕上书里面就都说一十三天了？有啥区别么？

 

A: 这是佛教世界观里须弥山原型说的一个层级，从欲界到无色界，一共有28层天：欲界6天，色界18天，无色界4天，每一层有不同的神统治。但是这书里自己编的吧，因为东华帝君明显又不是佛教宇宙观那一脉的。又跟西方佛陀谈佛法，所以你就当是天上分好多层，他是其中的一个层主吧。

 

its probably safe to say each floor has its own subsequent divisions of some sort as different Gods reside on different floors?

 

 

[Pesca]

Yes, that was in the drama. I am not sure whether in the book  FJ spent 3 years as a fox with DH and then retrieved her fur on term from Nie Chuyin which kind of make sense as she knows his temperament from when she was his fox so she must have been his fox for a while. 

Later he turned up at FJ weapon ceremony to get favour from QQ (On this point I don't understand his intention whether he wanted to marry FJ?). Lucky, DH was quite lenient with him but ended up humiliated.

 

38 minutes ago, Ninky said:

its probably safe to say each floor has its own subsequent divisions of some sort as different Gods reside on different floors?

It feel like floor 33-36 are quite crowded? LS is on 33th. and the family hall (of other child immortals) seems to be on the same floor.  YH is either on 33 or 36? Then lots of things happened between those floors. 

But it seems only DH's palace (and the lotus pond) are on level 13 (or 113).  

 

[Ninky]

46 minutes ago, Pesca said:

Yes, that was in the drama. I am not sure whether in the book  FJ spent 3 years as a fox with DH and then retrieved her fur on term from Nie Chuyin which kind of make sense as she knows his temperament from when she was his fox so she must have been his fox for a while. 

Later he turned up at FJ weapon ceremony to get favour from QQ (On this point I don't understand his intention whether he wanted to marry FJ?). Lucky, DH was quite lenient with him but ended up humiliated.

 

It feel like floor 33-36 are quite crowded? LS is on 33th. and the family hall (of other child immortals) seems to be on the same floor.  YH is either on 33 or 36? Then lots of things happened between those floors. 

But it seems only DH's palace (and the lotus pond) are on level 13 (or 113).  

 

Most definitely not 113 as its a general consensus that it doesn't apply to this universe, but it's definitely on the 13th floor. And I believe he is the only person on 13 as well. Which part of 13th we dont' know but his place is opposite the pundarika pond. 33 to 36 are where most of the royal family resides, I believe as the main hall is the building right at the very top on the 36th. This is an eight trigram designed place  so makes sense.

[MayanEcho]

5 hours ago, Romulan said:

At least in the drama,  Si Ming gets help from Zhe Lan, and Cheng Yi who go and take it back from Nie Chuyin and it was under 3 yrs though the full time isnt mentioned in the drama

 

In Ep5 when DH was talking with Xuyang at demon realm, he told him to send JH after 3months to Tai Chen Palace. This was when he brought JH back to the demon realm after Meng Hao died at Mt Baishui. So you can say it's a little over 3 months that FJ was an ordinary spiritual fox, before her fur was retrieved for her.

 

3 hours ago, Pesca said:

Yes, that was in the drama. I am not sure whether in the book  FJ spent 3 years as a fox with DH and then retrieved her fur on term from Nie Chuyin which kind of make sense as she knows his temperament from when she was his fox so she must have been his fox for a while. 

 

Book POV, unless there's a mistake in the translation, it's also around 3 months that she was DH's pet before leaving on the eve of his wedding.

 

After an earth-shattering battle on Mount Fuyu, Yan Chiwu at last resorted to trickery. He used the Soul Locking Jade to trap an unsuspecting Donghua into the Wicked Lotus Sphere – and this was how Fengjiu got her chance to keep him company for three months. 

At the time, Fengjiu was grateful to Yan Chiwu for stirring up trouble and ruining Donghua’s union with the Demon clan. Donghua also hadn’t seemed to keep his engagement close at heart and she eventually let go of her worries.

 
She hadn’t imagined that in three months’ time there would be a night when blooming flowers and high-lit lanterns would decorate the grounds at Taichen Palace. Under the warm afternoon sun, a palanquin carried into the main palace a most important guest. This most important guest was no other than the calamitous beauty Jiheng... (PB1, p89)

 

3 hours ago, Pesca said:

Later he turned up at FJ weapon ceremony to get favour from QQ (On this point I don't understand his intention whether he wanted to marry FJ?). Lucky, DH was quite lenient with him but ended up humiliated.

 

Drama POV, the Qing Qiu citizens granted to Nie Chuyin would have been fed to Miao Luo. Book POV, Nine Chuyin would have been granted favor by Qing Qiu when he defeated FJ. He wanted Qing Qiu to back him for his ambitions as Demon overlord.

 

Black Demon Lord Nie Chuyin was a man with a dream. Ever since the Demon Overlord Shaowan passed away, the Demon Clan had been divided into seven factions and jointly headed by seven Demon Lords. 

After attaining his Black Lord position, Nie Chuyin had been bent on unifying the Demon Clan where there would once more be an overlord who stood above all the others. Marriage alliance with the Deity Clan would be a great way to accomplish this dream. Unfortunately, all influential High Deities from the Deity Clan were men, yet he was an orphan. Unlike Lord Xuyang, he did not have a little sister to marry off. He took a step back to think. If there were a gay deity among these High Deities, for his ambition, he would even sacrifice himself. That didn't work out. He took another step to think. If he wasn't related to them, it was best not to offend them. But if he must offend them, then he must at least negotiate a favor from them. 

His coming today had truthfully been very well calculated. He knew this move would certainly offend the Bai family of Qingqiu, but for a promise from them, the offense would be well worth it. However, he never thought he would be offending Donghua Dijun as well. If things had come to this and he had offended everyone, not only the Bai family but also Dijun, then it was even more imperative that he secure that promise from Qingqiu. (PB2, p399)

 

It's 3 months, not 3 years, but she should get her fur and tails back earlier by whatever means, since Nie Chuyin's half of his cultivation returned to him when FJ was still in the Evil Lotus Realm. Their "agreement" was a travesty.

[Romulan]

2 hours ago, Pesca said:

Yes, that was in the drama. I am not sure whether in the book  FJ spent 3 years as a fox with DH and then retrieved her fur on term from Nie Chuyin which kind of make sense as she knows his temperament from when she was his fox so she must have been his fox for a while. 

Later he turned up at FJ weapon ceremony to get favour from QQ (On this point I don't understand his intention whether he wanted to marry FJ?). Lucky, DH was quite lenient with him but ended up humiliated.

 

It feel like floor 33-36 are quite crowded? LS is on 33th. and the family hall (of other child immortals) seems to be on the same floor.  YH is either on 33 or 36? Then lots of things happened between those floors. 

But it seems only DH's palace (and the lotus pond) are on level 13 (or 113).  

 

What family hall?  I know that A'Li has his own palace that I think is within his father's overall palace.  (ok in the drama they all translate it into palaces but im guessing that its more like he has own wing or courtyard within his father's palace that has many courtyards.)    

 

The favor was to have been to send men to the demon realm to 'help' with some fascade but actually feed them to ML.  

 

[Ninky]

2 hours ago, Romulan said:

What family hall?  I know that A'Li has his own palace that I think is within his father's overall palace.  (ok in the drama they all translate it into palaces but im guessing that its more like he has own wing or courtyard within his father's palace that has many courtyards.)    

 

The favor was to have been to send men to the demon realm to 'help' with some fascade but actually feed them to ML.  

 

 

I think all the sons and family of Tian Jun are from the 33rd floor onwards. So basically 33rd - 36th contains the homes of most of the Celestial Clan. The building at the very top is where they hold meetings with Tian Jun. The other immortals would be distributed across the remaining floors.

 

A'Li has a hall within his Father's Xi Wu palace. This hall is called a "Dian". Within each "Dian" there is the general living area, a bedchamber, a library and a study. His hall is called Qing Yun Hall.

 

That's more of less how it works. Homes are built in a courtyard style. The various "Dians" are arranged around this central courtyard. Ye Hua has a main hall and Bai Qian has a hall of her own as well. Her hall was called Yu Lan Fang Hua Hall.

 

The same would apply to Dong Hua and his family. The three of them will have their own private halls within Tai Chen Palace. Feng Jiu would have a hall designated for her status as his Empress. She may not be sleeping in there, but she will most definitely use it to do her homework after her classes (yes, she still goes to school) or in the future govern her people from there.

 

But it's fluid, sometimes they can be in this hall or another hall but in general the couples share the bedchamber in the master hall. Do you really think these possessive husbands would let their wives sleep anywhere else? '

 

 

In the books Miao Luo isn't a demon at all. She was actually a monster (Yao) created by the three poisons that had accumulated over a very long period of time inside the Miao Yi Hui Ming Realm which was used as a vessel to absorb the poisons from the mortal world. 

[UnluckyWhiteCat]

5 hours ago, Ninky said:

@UnluckyWhiteCatfound this which you may find interesting, and given that Tang Qi is a staunch buddhist, i am not all surprised by this borrowed concept which she then adapts into her scene settings in the 3L3W universe. It’s like a combo of buddhist and Feng shui geomancy combined.

 

Q: 桃花里面不是九重天吗？怎么在枕上书里面就都说一十三天了？有啥区别么？

 

A: 这是佛教世界观里须弥山原型说的一个层级，从欲界到无色界，一共有28层天：欲界6天，色界18天，无色界4天，每一层有不同的神统治。但是这书里自己编的吧，因为东华帝君明显又不是佛教宇宙观那一脉的。又跟西方佛陀谈佛法，所以你就当是天上分好多层，他是其中的一个层主吧。

 

its probably safe to say each floor has its own subsequent divisions of some sort as different Gods reside on different floors?

 

Was this a question Tangqi answered? *cough* I see something slightly related to something in chapter 9~

 

Yes I think so too, I'm mostly just hung up on the way it's written and what you were saying about how it could denote the different sections of a single level on Heaven, cause if the 一 in 一十三天 really does denote a specific portion of the 13th Heaven, I just don't understand how she could denote the other sections in the same way. 

[Ninky]

16 minutes ago, UnluckyWhiteCat said:

 

Was this a question Tangqi answered? *cough* I see something slightly related to something in chapter 9~

 

Yes I think so too, I'm mostly just hung up on the way it's written, cause if the 一 in 一十三天 really does denote a specific portion of the 13th Heaven, I just don't understand how she could denote the other sections in the same way. 

 

We have upcoming books, so who knows how she might demarcate the 33rd floor then. I really don't think the entire 33rd floor is Yuan Ji Palace (third prince's home) in the case of Lotus Step as there are other members of his family staying on the same floor.

 

But it's safe to say that Di Jun's palace is on the 13th floor. Which part of 13th floor, whether it's elevated or not, we don't really know as it has not been described. We only know there is a Pundarika Lotus pond next to it. So no point getting hung on on how she wrote it. There are divisions in a floor that's for sure, depending on who is located on that floor and how many.

 

The question was asked by a reader in a readership forum but the answer was by someone who is familiar with the buddhist concepts within the story. A lot of things in the story are adapted from both Buddhist and Taoist concepts so certain things would be harder to grasp or ascertain. 

[UnluckyWhiteCat]

3 minutes ago, Ninky said:

We have upcoming books, so who knows how she might demarcate the 33rd floor then. I really don't think the entire 33rd floor is Yuan Ji Palace (third prince's home) in the case of Lotus Step as there are other members of his family staying on the same floor.

 

But it's safe to say that Di Jun's palace is on the 13th floor. Which part of 13th floor, whether it's elevated or not, we don't really know as it has not been described. We only know there is a Pundarika Lotus pond next to it. So no point getting hung on on how she wrote it. There are divisions in a floor that's for sure, depending on who is located on that floor and how many.

 

Well we know now that there's a giant tree on the 33rd Heaven as well as it being the place where immortals like to go to do their betting and storytelling... 

 

Is it bad that I like to believe that he's so important that he gets the entire layer to himself? LOL. Even if it's just because no one else dares to go there. 

[Ninky]

1 minute ago, UnluckyWhiteCat said:

 

Well we know now that there's a giant tree on the 33rd Heaven as well as it being the place where immortals like to go to do their betting and storytelling... 

 

Is it bad that I like to believe that he's so important that he gets the entire layer to himself? LOL. Even if it's just because no one else dares to go there. 

 

I think both reasons are true because nobody wants to suffer the man's poisonous tongue and dark humour. We saw what happened to Zhe Yan in Chapter Two. And I think he's got the floor to himself as well because he really is that important. Everyone is still worried he won't get his cultivation back fast enough. 260,000 years later, they still rely on him a lot.

 

However with his wife and son living in the same palace now, I am pretty sure Bai Qian or Zu Ti or A-LI would come by at times. Third Prince shows up all the time regardless since they are close friends. But the rest will probably try to avoid Di Jun somehow HAHAHA! God knows what will happen if Feng Jiu's bestie Yan Chi Wu shows up. however....

 

[MayanEcho]

27 minutes ago, Ninky said:

God knows what will happen if Feng Jiu's bestie Yan Chi Wu shows up.

 

He'll be asked to pick tea leaves.  

 

Then clean the lotus ponds, pick the ripe apricots, plant more plants, putter around Tai Chen Palace...

 

I'd also like to believe all of 13th level is Dong Hua's, coz I simply can't see him not having all the privacy extended to his tea plants/plantation. And gardens, and pavilion. 

[Ninky]

Just now, MayanEcho said:

 

He'll be asked to pick tea leaves.  

 

I'd also like to believe all of 13th level is Dong Hua's, coz I simply can't see him not having all the privacy extended to his tea plants/plantation.

 

In other words, most people are too chicken to visit Floor Number 13

 

P.S. Past the half way mark of translating Chapter 4. 

[MayanEcho]

18 minutes ago, Ninky said:

In other words, most people are too chicken to visit Floor Number 13

 

P.S. Past the half way mark of translating Chapter 4. 

 

I think even Pundarika pond isn't much frequented. 

 

Can't wait for chapter 4! When DH is enthralled by his future wife at first sight. It's the chapter FJ invaded DH's bedroom and bed, hahaha!