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[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] The Rise of Phoenixes 凰权·弈天下

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3 hours ago, morganian said:

Yaaasss. Sexual tension and an intellectual type of romance FTW.

 

Sometimes less is more with the romance. Jane Austen’s Pride and Prejudice, a classic romance novel, has lots of sexual tension, witty repartee between the main protagonists, and not a single kiss in sight!

 

Ok, RotP’s FZW and Ning Yi’s romance should have pretty much been wrapped up after the death of Feng Hao and Mingying...but it was still pretty good for 40+ episodes. The romance is there even when they spend no screen time together. I just love how FZW and NY think about each other’s welfare, even in the early stages. FZW gives up her plans to travel the world when Master Zong tells her either Prince of Chu or the Crown Prince will die from the power struggle. NY is always adjusting his plans to make sure his little raccoon is safe... 

Oh Yes! Pride and Prejudice!!!

 

tRoP romance peak is at episode 47, but Ning Yi was so cool at episode 51 when he charged into the palace and threatened his father. That was so awesome! I really love how vulnerable and fragile he looks most of the time and suddenly just so aggressive and commanding. When he commanded the guards to move, they really just obeyed him. At that point, one can say, he might as well be Emperor. lol!

 

And then I can pretend that everything ended tragically at episode 53 when their love was still strong but they cannot be together... 

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1 hour ago, skibbies said:

I peg that down to mostly culture difference. Love is a very heavy and rarely used word, especially in a confession in Chinese. Of course that's changing with younger generation and what not. I actually find "i like you" kind of out of place because the term seems kind of modern, and TOO straightforward. It seems much more Ning Yi's style (who's a tsundere who is bad at admitting romantic feelings) and this drama's style to have lengthy poems describing love and feelings than "i like you". I love you would def work more as a translation, kind of like japanese "suki" is translated as love in confessions, even though the term itself is technically "like". Glad you are having fun with the cute romance bits!

 

I'm not sure if the translator even watch the drama as they translate. There could have been multiple people who got bits and pieces of the script so they just translate it literally. I'm not sure I've seen a historical drama with awesome translation. I think web novels get them more, from my super cursory look?

Yeah, I am so used to it in japanese animations that I just consider "I like you" as "I love you". Even adults use "I like you" all the time or even just "Please date me, with consideration of marriage." lol Although, some does say "I love you" Mostly really passionate ones, or those with really strong personalities.

 

However with Ning Yi, anything goes. He comes off really strong at times, but when he confessed he didn't seem confident at all. I mean, I am pretty sure he has an idea how much Zhiwei really likes him, but he looked like a nervous wreck, it was so cute! "I like you" was better suited to the situation, I don't think his brain can manage anything poetic at that point. I wish he had a chance to say "I love you" as well, but unfortunately, every thing went downhill from there.

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For Ning Yi, I think he's more likely to just do things, he's an action kind of guy. The confession scene is basically a puppy love confession scene because he's super shy and find it hard to voice love, so I think "I like you" make sense. "I'll take care of you" "Let's be together forever" or sometimes no confession work more in more serious historical I think. Imagining them saying "I love you" actually makes my brain go ????

 

Douban has a thread that screenshot all the "confessions" that they told to OTHER PEOPLE. Most famously, that scene in Da Yue and some scenes where Ning Yi is talking to Xin Ziyan.

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1 hour ago, skibbies said:

For Ning Yi, I think he's more likely to just do things, he's an action kind of guy. The confession scene is basically a puppy love confession scene because he's super shy and find it out to voice love, so I think that make sense. "I'll take care of you" "Let's be together forever" or sometimes no confession work more in more serious historical I think. Imagining them saying "I love you" actually makes my brain go ????

 

Douban has a thread that screenshot all the "confessions" that they told to OTHER PEOPLE. Most famously, that scene in Da Yue and some scenes where Ning Yi is talking to Xin Ziyan.

I think the first time Ning Yi really admitted to "loving" Zhiwei was after the emperor's birthday. Before that, Ning Yi had been just glaring at them and calling her "pawn". He really is tsundere. lol. Although it was kinda funny when he refused to bet Zhiwei with Xin Ziyan. But after that incident in Yilan Palace, Ning Yi seemed to have accepted it. Instead of denying or feigning indifference he actually stated that he wasn't really sure what their relationship was, which is a huge development. After Zhiwei was revealed as a woman, when Xin Ziyan told him to marry before leaving, he stated that he will do so when he got back. And then he also thought of Zhiwei as the woman he loved. He just could not admit it in front of Zhiwei herself until he got sick of the plague. lol

 

Oh, I also remember when Xin ZIyan sent Zhiwei to Qingming Academy to get her far from Ning Yi, and Ning Yi teased him about getting a post in Qingming as well. The expression in Xin ZIyan's face was priceless. Also Zhiwei asking Huaishi and Nanyi if she would not make a good wife, when she had been adamant about not marrying. It was so cute. Just Ning Yi, Xin Ziyan and Feng Zhiwei alone really makes this show so much fun!

 

I like the fact that although Zhiwei was basically a commoner, she had no insecurity issues with regards to her status. She liked Ning Yi and went for it, not once did she think she was beneath him or anything like that.

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4 hours ago, Pollen Ainne said:

Yeah, I am so used to it in japanese animations that I just consider "I like you" as "I love you". Even adults use "I like you" all the time or even just "Please date me, with consideration of marriage." lol Although, some does say "I love you" Mostly really passionate ones, or those with really strong personalities.

 

However with Ning Yi, anything goes. He comes off really strong at times, but when he confessed he didn't seem confident at all. I mean, I am pretty sure he has an idea how much Zhiwei really likes him, but he looked like a nervous wreck, it was so cute! "I like you" was better suited to the situation, I don't think his brain can manage anything poetic at that point. I wish he had a chance to say "I love you" as well, but unfortunately, every thing went downhill from there.

As per discussion above, I think culturally and historically 'I like you' is extremely blunt and forward already. 'Please be my first wife' would have been more appropriate and just having one wife (no concubines) would demonstrate the depth of feeling. 'Please be my Empress' is really pushing it to the next level and demonstrates a desperate and selfish love without thought for the consequences.

 

Ning Yi's displays of affection are so reserved compared to Helian Z's. Helian is extremely forward...which, in the context of the show, hint at him being barbaric, an outsider, uncultured, etc. I think, this is one small reason why FZW cannot take him seriously (even before she is full-on in love with NY). 

 

And then, compare this to Gu Nanyi's affection. He loves FZW, but he makes it something more appropriate for his station. Apart from the initial 'perving on my mistress while she's in her PJs', he keeps it pretty G-rated after that.

 

Thoughts?

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Hi, thank you for starting this topic, I found #trop drama fully inadvertently, never seen trailers or news about it ,whatsoever. I was just skimming  Netflix and found #trop title and thumbnail gave sort of dark cues and looked intriguing. Then that’s that, it’s now one of favorites.

I’ve read many comments about #trop, mostly about slow paced at beginning, but in my humble opinion, it is how the script wants to introduce our main leads, NingYi and ZhiWei. The cues are too strong, first impression their characters are gravely tricky and complex. Both NingYi and Zhiwei  simply child prodigy, they scheme things at their very young age. NingYi acts a strategist at the age of 8. While Zhiwei if you all notice in episode 2, she fakes her tears in front of many people so that her family allowed to stay in her uncle house, she’s just 8 yo too I guess. I truly love these sort of equal male and female leads.   It reminds me one of my favorites manga characters Tsukushi and  Domyoji from Hana Yori dango. 

So, at the end of day, #trop drama is a hq content. Some fans probably dislike the sad ending, some fans are ok, I guess I’m the second one. 

As for me, usually I have second male lead syndrome, when the story has many love interests, but ChenKun just awes me from  episode 1 to 70. Probably because he has more scenes than the other competitors or he’s just too hot to handle  ^^ (squeal). NiNi also cool, she’s lovely and cute, she’s no Barbie girl look, but she has a fresh look, and she portrays Zhiwei very well. 

Ps: im still waiting English translation for the novel,,,patiently ^^

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2 hours ago, morganian said:

As per discussion above, I think culturally and historically 'I like you' is extremely blunt and forward already. 'Please be my first wife' would have been more appropriate and just having one wife (no concubines) would demonstrate the depth of feeling. 'Please be my Empress' is really pushing it to the next level and demonstrates a desperate and selfish love without thought for the consequences.

 

Ning Yi's displays of affection are so reserved compared to Helian Z's. Helian is extremely forward...which, in the context of the show, hint at him being barbaric, an outsider, uncultured, etc. I think, this is one small reason why FZW cannot take him seriously (even before she is full-on in love with NY). 

 

And then, compare this to Gu Nanyi's affection. He loves FZW, but he makes it something more appropriate for his station. Apart from the initial 'perving on my mistress while she's in her PJs', he keeps it pretty G-rated after that.

 

Thoughts?

I love the comparison between Helian Zheng and Ning Yi.

 

I remember at the beginning Helian Zheng was looking down at the people of Tiansheng. He stated their women were weak as well as their men. And it is indeed true. In Tiansheng, courtesy is valued more than prowess. The way they bow alone shows how Tiansheng demands servitude and exaltation whilst Jinshi demands honor and pride.

 

To be honest, the Kingdom of Jinshi is a much better place for Zhiwei. Their women were treated better and could become warriors. The fact that the Empress sister had the audacity to accuse someone of almost raping her and having that person destroyed despite being a noble is something I did not know can happen in the past. Men's words were usually more valued than that of a woman, unless the man is of low status. Especially not if they were both engaged, they would probably just be forced to marry each other.

 

Zhiwei as an Empress of Jinshi could also lead an army. I cannot imagine an emperor of Tiansheng allowing something like that. Not even Ning Yi, especially not if it would be Zhiwei. oh no. No way in heck she would be able to convince him of that. Maybe if he was chained into a post and there was no other way to save the kingdom. lol. But he would probably cut off his limbs to free himself before he would allow it. :D Unless if he was sure it was relatively safe, maybe... but you know what, he did intend to send her to Minhai alone before... so maybe... but I just don't see it happening.

 

But Helian Zheng did not seem barbaric or uncultured to me. He was less smart, that is for sure. Although I would understand that most women in Tiansheng would think Helian Zheng is barbaric, Zhiwei is quite different from most women. I think had she not been preoccupied with other thoughts, he might fascinate her a bit. Zhiwei is quite forward thinking. I think Helian Zheng might have had a chance of winning Zhiwei simply because he treated her more like an equal (later on) than Ning Yi did. And I don't think Zhiwei was averse to someone who was open to their feelings as she was quite open with her affections herself and had been baiting Ning Yi to open up.

 

Even at the beginning, you can see that she was actually free at touching him and holding his arm when pleading for something, that Ning Yi was the one shocked at her forwardness. Even when they were already together, Ning Yi was the reserved one, hesitating to hold her and all that while she leans on him so easily. She was also the one who grabbed his hand on the streets to hold it. So I doubt, any expressive emotion would feel "barbaric" to Zhiwei.

 

But what really amazes me is how manly Ning Yi can be compared to Helian Zheng when he looked a lot more fragile. Ning Yi was like a dark prince and a fairy at the same time. lol. In the end, he was fiercer than Helian Zheng. Helian Zheng came and acted like a lion but turned out to be a cat. In terms of being "barbaric", Ning Yi killed two people in cold blood by his own hands (Chan Hai and Zhongyi) without any remorse. He ordered the death of the crowned prince and cut off Zhongxin's head. Whilst Helian Zheng was so worried about his little brother who got kidnapped. (In all fairness, it was quite an unfair assessment in Zhiwei's part, as had Ning Ji been the crowned prince, I doubt Ning Yi would have plotted against him. And had Ning Ji been kidnapped, I am sure NIng Yi would have worried about him too)

 

Ning Yi was like a whirlwind. When he sets something into motion he never stops. Helian Zheng was so tame compared to him.

 

I think Zhiwei was attracted to both Ning Yi's darkness and light. Even at the beginning when he acted like he just wanted to be a commoner, Zhiwei already gauged that he had ambition and that he would not settle for less. She had no illusions about who Ning Yi was. But even though she was somewhat scared of it, she was also drawn to it. 

 

As for Gu Nanyi... for some reason he never had any romantic vibes for me. Even when Zhiwei undressed on the carriage, the moment felt awkward instead. He was like a brother. Even brothers turn around when their sisters are in a state of undress. I know, because I tease my teenage brother about it all the time.

 

WOW! I wrote an essay!!!

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On 10/21/2018 at 2:39 AM, Pollen Ainne said:

It is so weird that I find everything you said perfect and yet proves more to me how bland Ning Qi was. I actually stated it before how I found the "character" itself interesting. And had I read a summary of the character, my interest would be piqued. The idea of this "nobody" character able to wiggle his way and become Ning Yi's darkest nemesis is a very interesting premise. But his presence on screen just totally kills it for me. Maybe it is his lines. Or how he had no charm at all. I don't really know for sure. But the prince of Yue was more interesting to me despite the fact that I didn't like his character at all. I abhor him, but that is a win for the actor because that is something he should instigate to the audience. There is just something missing with the Prince of Wei, why I can't feel anything for him at all except "oh you again?". 

 

For some reason, instead of being angry at him for what he has done to create disruption, I instead feel insulted for Ning Yi, that he was going against this person... as someone stated a similar analogy, it is like having the last boss turn out to be a slime mob, it simply just deals 9999 damage. How odd.

 

You know what. I also just realized that even Ning Yi was not able to muster enough emotion to really hate Ning Qi. When his mother died, he mainly blamed the Bloody Pagoda for it. And then at the end, when Ning Qi was sent to prison after all the pain he caused Ning Yi, he didn't really feel like avenging himself. He basically didn't really care for the guy.

 

Maybe that is the entire reason. Maybe I was so in-tuned to Ning Yi's feelings that the fact that he never really had any deep feelings for Ning Qi, hatred or otherwise made me not care too. Now that I think about it, Ning Sheng was also not as interesting as Ning Chuan to me. His mother, Consort Chang was actually a more interesting character to me. But the fact that Ning Yi was actively scheming against him made me look up to Ning Sheng. He was an adversary. Ning Yi basically let the prince of Wei do anything... which is prolly why I couldn't care less about him.

^^ That 7th prince is no fun indeed, but I notice, from the first time he enters the court , he’s paying attention, he is low key observing NingYi. 

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On 10/19/2018 at 4:26 PM, Aude Bonnaire said:

hi everyone,

I'm new on this forum and Netflix brought me to the Rise of the Phoenixes. I watch with the French subtitles. I'm a TV Show sucker, even more for romance, and I like Asian dramas : I used to watch dozen of J-dramas per year, and maybe 2 or 3 K-dramas. This is my first C-drama.

The costumes and the photography is breathtaking, the acting is really good, the music a ear-delight.

I've watched so far 43 episodes in something like 2 weeks and I'm highly addicted.

  Reveal hidden contents

I decided it was time to go to bed when the Emperor agreed to "punish" FZW by sending her to Minhai as a Royal Investigator with NY

 

I need a happy ending or I'll be devasted for days :sweatingbullets:

 

I like how NY and FZW evolve, as people but also in their relationship, which may seem inexistent for Westerners like me (except that my experience of Asian Dramas helped me see some signs).

 

Regarding the topic about the princes, I don't even recall the face of Ning Yan :phew: I wished there would have been more princesses also.

Correct me if I'm wrong, by order (I love family trees):

 

Ning Chuan

Ning Sheng

Ning Qiao

4

Ning Yan

Ning Yi

Ning Qi

8

9

Ning Ji (Haven't seen this character yet).

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Consort Chang says that she had 3 kids, 2 boys and 1 girl, but Ning sheng is the youngest of them since she's been barren since she gave him birth. Ning Chuan is born of the Empress, so that means that if a prince dies, they all move up one rank or what ? :wacko:

 

Will we see the missing princes ?

hi, I think I heard the emperor said Shaoning is the 5th child and NingYan is 4th child, so Shaoning literally NingYi big sis, so we miss prince number 8 and 9. ^^ 

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10 hours ago, Pollen Ainne said:

WOW! I wrote an essay!!!

Heh, you did write an essay there. But it's good. Much better reading this stuff than lots of 'Wow, Chen Kun, he is so hot. Whenever he arches his eyebrows, it makes me swoon.' Lol.

 

Poor HZ! He's so uneducated in Tiansheng's ways. Always about to offend the Emperor. Unable to answer FZW's riddles. He seems to be a catch in his own kingdom (handsome, princely, skilled) since Liu Mudan's sister is obsessed with him, but he's an outsider at Tiansheng's court and hence seen at a disadvantage by the court ladies. Even FZW says 'Who would want to be admired by someone who looks like him?' But yes, he's certainly much more consistent with his public displays of affection towards FZW. From the get go, he wants to make her his concubine, and this lusty regard grows into a more respectful love. And I think FZW learns to appreciate this. She calls him her 'safe harbour' (not sure of the wording exactly)? 

 

And it was nice to see him in his own element in Jinshi, where he was admired, respected, and loved by his people. It would have been interesting for the show to do a role reversing here, where NY, a Tiansheng prince, would be shown at a disadvantage, but there wasn't enough scope for that kind of thing in the latter episodes.

 

As for Gu Nanyi, yeah, you're right: very little romantic undertone at all. Though, sometimes I get confused in some scenes, like the show wasn't sure what direction FZQ and GNY's relationship should be taking. Like what was he doing, sleeping on her bed, and then rolling over to look at her look at the moon? Is there more romance between these two characters in the book? Did the show make a decision somewhere along the line to tone down the hint of romance between these two so that they could focus on NY and HZ? That final scene with GNY having a flashback; what was that? I wonder what happened to him in the end. So messy! 

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I'm on ep 19 and the loyalty is killing me :(!!! So sad so many innocent lives were lost. Wait, Ning Yi knows that ZW is a woman right? Because he already saw her as the fake princess Qiu that was arranged to marry him?? Or am I missing something?

Nini and Chen Kun's chemistry is so simple, yet very loving and longingly towards each other. They have awesome chemistry even in the short scenes that they spend looking at each other, and the sadness that they goes through losing people that are in their circle. Oh lord, Ning Chun is laughable and a coward!! I cannot wait to see he suffer his misfortune soon!! In a way, the plot reminds me of NIF, not to compared but I see some similarities, like how Ning Yi pretends to be clueless and weak, but is plotting behind, and also Headmaster pretends to work for Ning Chun, but really he works for Ning Yi?? Also, NY and ZW reminds me of Romeo and Juliet, knowing so far that NY killed her father????? I still don't believe this, and that something new will come up to change the storyline??? If he really killed her father, then they can never be together, because she wont be able to forgive him??? Also, this is called TROP, does this mean that ZW is going to be a Queen to turn over Tiansheng's kingdom?? I'm confused why the Gu guard keep reffering ZW as a he?? Ahh, is it because at this point, they don't know that their brother have a daughter, and not a son??

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1 hour ago, morganian said:

Heh, you did write an essay there. But it's good. Much better reading this stuff than lots of 'Wow, Chen Kun, he is so hot. Whenever he arches his eyebrows, it makes me swoon.' Lol.

 

Poor HZ! He's so uneducated in Tiansheng's ways. Always about to offend the Emperor. Unable to answer FZW's riddles. He seems to be a catch in his own kingdom (handsome, princely, skilled) since Liu Mudan's sister is obsessed with him, but he's an outsider at Tiansheng's court and hence seen at a disadvantage by the court ladies. Even FZW says 'Who would want to be admired by someone who looks like him?' But yes, he's certainly much more consistent with his public displays of affection towards FZW. From the get go, he wants to make her his concubine, and this lusty regard grows into a more respectful love. And I think FZW learns to appreciate this. She calls him her 'safe harbour' (not sure of the wording exactly)? 

 

And it was nice to see him in his own element in Jinshi, where he was admired, respected, and loved by his people. It would have been interesting for the show to do a role reversing here, where NY, a Tiansheng prince, would be shown at a disadvantage, but there wasn't enough scope for that kind of thing in the latter episodes.

 

As for Gu Nanyi, yeah, you're right: very little romantic undertone at all. Though, sometimes I get confused in some scenes, like the show wasn't sure what direction FZQ and GNY's relationship should be taking. Like what was he doing, sleeping on her bed, and then rolling over to look at her look at the moon? Is there more romance between these two characters in the book? Did the show make a decision somewhere along the line to tone down the hint of romance between these two so that they could focus on NY and HZ? That final scene with GNY having a flashback; what was that? I wonder what happened to him in the end. So messy! 

But but but... Chen Kun is so hot. lol!

 

To be honest, I think Ning Yi is the one who is hot rather than Chen Kun. But he made the character come to life so he deserves credit! 

 

I would love to have the Jinshi arc expanded, but seems to me Ning Yi is not out of his element even in there. I think even the women of Jinshi would be intrigued by him. Helian Zheng was barely able to do anything to regain his throne at all. Ning Yi and Zhiwei did all the work for him. Ning Yi in his hunting gear lounging in his chair... I think some beauty is just universal, he has mastered the art of "lounging". :D

 

As far as I know about Gu Nanyi in the books, is that it was a one sided love on his part, and he probably didn't realize it until a lot later? I haven't read the books so I am just going with what I have read others say. I am glad they didn't really develop anything romantic between them. Too much love interest can get quite bothersome. But I really hate the fact that Gu Nanyi got a flashback on the last episode and we don't get a montage of Zhiwei and Ning Yi. Whoever cut that film was out of his mind. I usually do not like flashbacks since I binge watch, but dang, there are times when flashbacks are necessary! They should have kept the scene with Ning Yi and Zhiwei in the mountains pretending they were together. I keep on getting on my rant mode every time I think of the ending. lol

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1 hour ago, rosierosie said:

I'm on ep 19 and the loyalty is killing me :(!!! So sad so many innocent lives were lost. Wait, Ning Yi knows that ZW is a woman right? Because he already saw her as the fake princess Qiu that was arranged to marry him?? Or am I missing something?

Nini and Chen Kun's chemistry is so simple, yet very loving and longingly towards each other. They have awesome chemistry even in the short scenes that they spend looking at each other, and the sadness that they goes through losing people that are in their circle. Oh lord, Ning Chun is laughable and a coward!! I cannot wait to see he suffer his misfortune soon!! In a way, the plot reminds me of NIF, not to compared but I see some similarities, like how Ning Yi pretends to be clueless and weak, but is plotting behind, and also Headmaster pretends to work for Ning Chun, but really he works for Ning Yi?? Also, NY and ZW reminds me of Romeo and Juliet, knowing so far that NY killed her father????? I still don't believe this, and that something new will come up to change the storyline??? If he really killed her father, then they can never be together, because she wont be able to forgive him??? Also, this is called TROP, does this mean that ZW is going to be a Queen to turn over Tiansheng's kingdom?? I'm confused why the Gu guard keep reffering ZW as a he?? Ahh, is it because at this point, they don't know that their brother have a daughter, and not a son??

Yes, Ning Yi knows that Wei Zhi is Feng Zhiwei, because he was the one who encouraged her to enroll at Qingming Academy. And she is doing it for him to repay the favor of him saving her life. I really am gonna try NiF again.

 

And the problem doesn't seem to be her not being able to forgive him, but the fact that she promised her mother never to marry him, damning her mother's soul to eternal unrest if she does. It is kinda Romeo and Juliet actually, if Romeo and Juliet were smart, lol. And Ning Yi is the main character of the story so tRoP mostly refers to him. 

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26 minutes ago, Pollen Ainne said:

Yes, Ning Yi knows that Wei Zhi is Feng Zhiwei, because he was the one who encouraged her to enroll at Qingming Academy. And she is doing it for him to repay the favor of him saving her life. I really am gonna try NiF again.

 

And the problem doesn't seem to be her not being able to forgive him, but the fact that she promised her mother never to marry him, damning her mother's soul to eternal unrest if she does. It is kinda Romeo and Juliet actually, if Romeo and Juliet were smart, lol. And Ning Yi is the main character of the story so tRoP mostly refers to him. 

Thanks for your input :)!!! Yes!! You should give NIF a try, I waited two years, and I watched it this summer and boy, it was amazing!!! 

 

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54 minutes ago, Pollen Ainne said:

But but but... Chen Kun is so hot. lol!

 

To be honest, I think Ning Yi is the one who is hot rather than Chen Kun. But he made the character come to life so he deserves credit! 

 

I would love to have the Jinshi arc expanded, but seems to me Ning Yi is not out of his element even in there. I think even the women of Jinshi would be intrigued by him. 

I think you’re right there. I’ve been watching Chen Kun/Nini movies to fill the void post-series. So far, I’ve watched Beautiful Accident, Mojin, Love on Credit, Legend of Wu Kong and Suddenly 17 and none of them are doing it for me. Will still try to watch Painted Skin, Mulan, etc for completeness but rewatching RotP is much more fun. Though Chen Kun’s upcoming project The Weary Poet (?) sounds kind of cool; I must try to see that. 

 

Yeah, NY seems to be just as canny as ever in Jinshi. I guess I am looking for patterns/themes with the second watching.

 

Another event that is mirrored is drug-induced madness. Both NY and FZW develop some form of madness. Interesting how both hurt the people they love during these periods: NY does this physically and FZW does it verbally. It’s probably just a plot-device but I also want it to mean something thematically. I keep on wanting to make the series more intellectual than it already is. I am itching to put forth a quote from the series and a ‘Discuss’ after...just like an English Literature essay exam. 

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4 hours ago, rosierosie said:

Thanks for your input :)!!! Yes!! You should give NIF a try, I waited two years, and I watched it this summer and boy, it was amazing!!! 

 

I tried watching it before. Will try again :D

 

4 hours ago, morganian said:

I think you’re right there. I’ve been watching Chen Kun/Nini movies to fill the void post-series. So far, I’ve watched Beautiful Accident, Mojin, Love on Credit, Legend of Wu Kong and Suddenly 17 and none of them are doing it for me. Will still try to watch Painted Skin, Mulan, etc for completeness but rewatching RotP is much more fun. Though Chen Kun’s upcoming project The Weary Poet (?) sounds kind of cool; I must try to see that. 

 

Yeah, NY seems to be just as canny as ever in Jinshi. I guess I am looking for patterns/themes with the second watching.

 

Another event that is mirrored is drug-induced madness. Both NY and FZW develop some form of madness. Interesting how both hurt the people they love during these periods: NY does this physically and FZW does it verbally. It’s probably just a plot-device but I also want it to mean something thematically. I keep on wanting to make the series more intellectual than it already is. I am itching to put forth a quote from the series and a ‘Discuss’ after...just like an English Literature essay exam. 

I have tried watching Chen Kun movies, I saw Beautiful Accident but he was barely there. Love on Credit was kinda cute but he didn't have much parts either. I also tried Lost in 1949 and enjoyed it until at one point where someone annoying appeared and I got so annoyed with the succeeding event that I wanted to throw a shoe on my screen. But Chen Kun was great there too. I saw Snow Girl and the Dark Crystal, boy was he so different there. I love the fact that he doesn't need to be cute in his movies. I don't wanna watch Painted Skin and Mulan... not even Chen Kun can make me watch that. Re-watching tRoP is definitely the best.

 

Unfortunately, what Zhiwei did, left more of a scar especially since Ning Yi had been planning to drop his title. It was the most inopportune time. The old Ning Yi would have had enough arrogance to ignore it. What is so heart-wrenching to me is that after the "kiss" underwater, this two people never connected on the same level again. They might as well have drowned.

 

Thematically, both events serve a purpose. Ning Yi's madness lead to Zhiwei's "death" and Zhiwei's madness lead to Ning Yi's "death". Unfortunately they didn't survive both.

 

 

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14 hours ago, Lottalove Lottalove said:

hi, I think I heard the emperor said Shaoning is the 5th child and NingYan is 4th child, so Shaoning literally NingYi big sis, so we miss prince number 8 and 9. ^^ 

no no. Ning Yan is specifically called 5th prince. Shaoning calls Ning Qi, the 7th prince big brother (when he was being nice to her), she's at least younger than him. In the book, she's the youngest and explicitly calls 10th prince big bro too. They don't refer to each other by titles in the drama so it's not confirmed but I think it's somewhat assumed?

 

22 hours ago, Pollen Ainne said:

I think Helian Zheng might have had a chance of winning Zhiwei simply because he treated her more like an equal (later on) than Ning Yi did. And I don't think Zhiwei was averse to someone who was open to their feelings as she was quite open with her affections herself and had been baiting Ning Yi to open up.

I'd agree if they kept Helian Zheng's characterisation of straightforward but devoted till the end. When Zhiwei was trying to go back to Tiansheng (ep 64? 65?), he got very upset, which is entirely fair. The scene started out fine but then his chauvinism started coming out, he wish that she would let him handle it, let him check what's going on in Tiansheng. That's not Zhiwei, and she said so as much. I do like this part since it humanised him but then they try to humanised him more where he's selfish and does a really dumb thing, so I just pretend that doesn't exist. I think they can overcome not always thinking at the same speed or along the same lines (although Zhiwei would lose so much fun and I don't want her to settle), but not when he doesn't understand what's vital to her.

 

11 hours ago, morganian said:

As for Gu Nanyi, yeah, you're right: very little romantic undertone at all. Though, sometimes I get confused in some scenes, like the show wasn't sure what direction FZQ and GNY's relationship should be taking. Like what was he doing, sleeping on her bed, and then rolling over to look at her look at the moon? Is there more romance between these two characters in the book? Did the show make a decision somewhere along the line to tone down the hint of romance between these two so that they could focus on NY and HZ? That final scene with GNY having a flashback; what was that? I wonder what happened to him in the end. So messy! 

The scene is from the book, but even then it's not meant to be romantic. Gu Nanyi doesn't understand the world and how people social, it's Zhiwei who taught him that. He has a lot of contemplative scenes in drama, in the one you are talking about, I think he was just sort of musing "this girl is weird. mhmmm". He's essentially the second lead in the book by sheer amount of scenes (he was by her side for 12 years) and like in the drama, he's her family and sort of like her support network at times. He's romantically interested in her in the novel, but to him, it's not just romance, she's his life and his world, basically? damn this sounds really cheesy. But Zhiwei was never romantically interested in him. I'm worried about him in the drama too, he understood where she's going, I think but he's going to be so heartbroken and he has no one else.

 

Re:Chen Kun, he tends to play supporting character (or he's the main character but the focus is on the female lead) in lot of the well known movies he's in, he likes to challenge himself so they are all pretty different. Maybe also try Flying Sword of Dragon's Gate? I think that's one of his more beloved role. His dramas have some memorable characters but I doubt they are translated. Did you try Ni ni's debut movie, The Flowers of War? The general consensus seems to be she did fairly average in terms of roles after that.

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1 hour ago, skibbies said:

I'd agree if they kept Helian Zheng's characterisation of straightforward but devoted till the end. When Zhiwei was trying to go back to Tiansheng (ep 64? 65?), he got very upset, which is entirely fair. The scene started out fine but then his chauvinism started coming out, he wish that she would let him handle it, let him check what's going on in Tiansheng. That's not Zhiwei, and she said so as much. I do like this part since it humanised him but then they try to humanised him more where he's selfish and does a really dumb thing, so I just pretend that doesn't exist. I think they can overcome not always thinking at the same speed or along the same lines (although Zhiwei would lose so much fun and I don't want her to settle), but not when he doesn't understand what's vital to her.

I forgive him. When the woman you love keeps on thinking of another man, you might think you can accept it at first but you will get fed up with it. And I think Zhiwei never really gave Helian Zheng a chance. She only kept appearances on the outside as his queen to not humiliate him, which is what Ning Yi saw. But later on, when he aimed a bow at her... that I do not forgive him for, even if he paid for it with his life. I know he had no intention of shooting but his intentions were bad. I admired him more when he became angry and decided to divorce her. He should not have taken that back.

 

1 hour ago, skibbies said:

I'm worried about him in the drama too, he understood where she's going, I think but he's going to be so heartbroken and he has no one else.

For some reason, I am quite indifferent as to what happens to Gu Nanyi.

 

1 hour ago, skibbies said:

Re:Chen Kun, he tends to play supporting character (or he's the main character but the focus is on the female lead) in lot of the well known movies he's in, he likes to challenge himself so they are all pretty different. Maybe also try Flying Sword of Dragon's Gate? I think that's one of his more beloved role. His dramas have some memorable characters but I doubt they are translated. Did you try Ni ni's debut movie, The Flowers of War? The general consensus seems to be she did fairly average in terms of roles after that.

I saw FSoDG before I knew who Chen Kun was (I liked Jet Li). I didn't know it was the same actor at all until I checked his movie list. He is a better actor than Jet Li that is for sure. lol

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On 10/29/2018 at 8:47 AM, mspilgrims said:

One thing in particular made me wonder though: the translation of some dialogues. I mean, does it have a sense between adults the word "like" in a confession?  "I like you" is a bit childish or for a teenage first love, imho. In the adult world, I'd rather say "I'm in love with you", "I've fallen for you" or simply "I love you". What do you think?

 

I agree with @skibbies previous comment that, like in Japanese, it's a cultural thing. I don't speak Chinese, but I speak Japanese. It isn't really childish thing to say "I like you" because adults in these two cultures hardly use the word "love." It goes "unspoken" for the most part.

 

There were multiple translators for Netflix subs, but I don't find this to be a translation error like how "little civet cat/little racoon" was translated as "imposter" in the earlier episodes. (That was one of the cases where they should have translated literally but didn't.)

 

The fact that they are both "testing the waters" makes "like" appropriate at this point in time. Ning Yi barely recognized his feelings for her as romantic (guy was super in denial all this time although we sure as hell knew better) as he was too focused on everything else. Same goes for Zhiwei.

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, sonosong said:

 

 

I agree with @skibbies previous comment that, like in Japanese, it's a cultural thing. I don't speak Chinese, but I speak Japanese. It isn't really childish thing to say "I like you" because adults in these two cultures hardly use the word "love." It goes "unspoken" for the most part.

 

There were multiple translators for Netflix subs, but I don't find this to be a translation error like how "little civet cat/little racoon" was translated as "imposter" in the earlier episodes. (That was one of the cases where they should have translated literally but didn't.)

 

The fact that they are both "testing the waters" makes "like" appropriate at this point in time. Ning Yi barely recognized his feelings for her as romantic (guy was super in denial all this time although we sure as hell knew better) as he was too focused on everything else. Same goes for Zhiwei.

 

 

 

I agree with you. I don't think I've ever heard anyone say I love you in Chinese in real life. 

 

It's kind of hard to translate 狸猫 to english. For some reason everyone translates it as civet cat/raccoon cat, but in Chinese it just means a little cat or little leopard cat. There is a very popular Chinese legend where a consort substitutes the newborn son of a rival consort, who would be crown prince, for a skinned cat, causing the consort to be lose favor ad be locked up (kind of like Ning Yi's mother's situation). Ning Yi calls Zhiwei 狸猫 because in the beginning, she was an impostor in the sense that she was assuming the identity of her cousin. It must have been kind of weird for people watching the subtitles though. 

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